Crossdressing as a choice

[TGMarla]

Tamara's thread on "Why do you lie?" and the other thread "Given the choice" regarding a pill that would make us "normal" brought up some questions for me that I thought I'd get into.

For many years, the debate has been argued whether or not gay people are the way they are by choice or by some other factor out of their control, like say genetics. I feel strongly that the same argument can be made for crossdressers. I mean, if this was a choice, why would we do it? Why would we readily embrace a lifestyle that has the potential to ruin us socially and financially? Why behave voluntarily in ways that could cause us to be shunned, divorced, and ridiculed? Why would we opt for such a lifestyle when the consequences are what they are?

I know that for me, the choice was taken out of the equation early on. I started doing this while going through puberty, so it became closely intertwined with sexual behavior. I don't think many people change their sexual blueprints throughout their lives. And although crossdressing evolved for me into something quite above and apart from a mere sexual activity, there is still a strong sexual aspect to it for me. But whatever one's reasons for starting this behavior, the reasons for continuing it are probably more complicated. I'm at a point in my life now where I couldn't stop this even if I tried. And I don't have much of an inclination to try. Why is that? It's no longer a choice for me, really. It's more of a complulsion and a need, hardwired into my brain and my soul.

When asked why we do this, for me part of the answer is "because I must". It is not a matter of choice so much as it is a matter of it being a part of my very soul. Our wives and girlfriends may well not understand that part of it when they are first exposed to it. They would often wish for their husbands or boyfriends to just stop doing it. Well, it's not that easy, not quite so cut and dry.

Your thoughts on this?

[Sallee]

I couldn't agree more It is no more of a choice than the color of your skin. Maybe you can deny it but it is going to stay in the background and come out somewhere and rear its pretty head.
Why would any one make a choice that resulted in social and financial ostracization (sic).
It is like choosing a gay life style. Maybe you could try it, experiment but I believe you if you were not gay you could not continue. You can deny but you can't hide from your self

[curse within]

Well said, now keeping that in mnd as far with it being a choice or a matter of need? To me a matter of need is food ,shelter and water along with air..

But if you were stranded on a Island with plenty of food,water and air, with out any female clothing would you survive ? Yes you could ,so dressing is a matter of choice just as smoking over eating and drug use.

[Stargirl]

Isn't it a pity that crossdressing has such a negative connotation to many people ? The word "deviant" jumps up right away. "Nutcase" "confused' "abuse victim".

"Men who crossdress are mentally ill. By the way, did you see Aunt Joan's new pant suit ? She looks great in it".

No one should have to give up crossdressing if it isn't causing harm. ("every time I put on a skirt, I want to go out and throttle skinny old men".)

People feel threatened by seeing a man dressed as a woman. It rubs them the wrong way. Nothing will change their minds. No book, professor, TV celebrity. They want "Mr. Vanilla boy" back in his harness, and playing a role, even if he is absolutely miserable doing so.

We humans reach a point where we have to live for the main part of ourselves. Time flies. Just how far must we bend, and why ? Are we owned ? rented ? The landscape of inner joy is the most satisfactory.

[Kate Simmons]

We sometimes deceive ourselves Marla. While each and every human being indeed has both Yin and Yang aspects (soul as it were), we all very much have a choice whether we realize or believe it or not. In fact, that is part of the reason we are here to begin with. The tendency is hard wired into our DNA (and our personal grid program) but the fact that we ignore is that we, ourselves, are the programmers. There is a much bigger picture at work here than most will realize or even admit. The point is we chose to do this and until the program is complete, the only thing we really have to do is enjoy the "ride".:)

[MarcellaMcNul]

I couldn'nt agree more.

Waaaaaay back in the "Phil Donahue Show" days of early talk show genre,sexualityand gender were still cutting edge material.

Whenever a gay person brave enough to appear as a guest and try educate the masses was on stage, there invariably would be some yokel in the audience arguing that he or she (guest) could "turn straight" if they wanted to. All they had to was muster up thier willpower and resist the gay urges.

Old Phil really dropped the ball because he never said (to the yokel): "And tell us Sir...since you are so knowledgeable of the subject....Just how difficult for you to fight off those urges?"

To me that's all it would have taken to drive home the point of those shows: we are who we are. We either have certain proclivities or we don't. As you said who would "decide" to have a potentially harder life than one needs to?

BTW I also found it interesting when a CD orTS guest was pretty and feminine they got a positive response from the audience. If the CD/TS was still manly and/or not conventionally attractive the crowd turned on them and slaughtered them. Spoke volumes to me.

Thanx for the good post.

[Karren H]

I'm driven to crossdress........

[Jonianne]

Well said, now keeping that in mnd as far with it being a choice or a matter of need? To me a matter of need is food ,shelter and water along with air..

But if you were stranded on a Island with plenty of food,water and air, with out any female clothing would you survive ? Yes you could ,so dressing is a matter of choice just as smoking over eating and drug use.

Those are just physical needs. Human needs go far beyond physical needs. If physical needs were all that is necessary for survival, why have people given their lifes for the principle of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

To me, "needs" are more than just food, water and air. We could survive without a lot of things such as being stranded on an island by ourselves. Heck, we could survive in a coma hanging from strands attached to our bones. It's the quality of life, that we as human beings, requires "needs" beyond food, water and air.

Love or connection to and from another person is a "human" need. To some, taking care of a pet is a need to fulfill thier humaness. Music and art is a human need. Hopes and dreams fulfill the human need to make it to the next day (a survival need there!). You could have all the money in the world to buy the external "needs" but all money in the world can't buy the need of giving and being loved and accepted just as we are.

Just as each of our physical bodies require different physical needs of vitimins and nutritions, each of our personalities require different needs. As crossdressers, we have a need to express ourselves in a gender other than the one society pins on us. Our need for self expression is not a choice. How we choose to express it, is. I try to keep a healthy balance when my needs conflict with others.

[curse within]

Joni,

Couldn't agree with you more but most of those we have choice in..Example we can fall in love or be in love with a choice of whom it may be, but if your hungry and live in the civil world you get Mc Donalds but on an Island deserted you get maybe some tree bark but no McDonalds..

[Jonianne]

I've had some McDonalds food that I would have prefered tree bark instead.

[curse within]

I've had some McDonalds food that I would have prefered tree bark instead. Again, I would have to agree..lol

[Joanne f]

Yes i think that we do have a choice, and we choose to do what we like doing like most people do , it is not our faults that others do not like us to do what we do .
and there are many things that people do not like other people doing so it is not just us in the firing line.

[Kokoro]

Its not really a choice. Its something you are born with, but i doubt its unnatural. Infact it might be one of the keys to humans being the most succesful species on the planet.

Taking physical sex out of the equation, all animals are set to one of 3 genders. Male, Female and Neutral. Extreme's of Male/Female species can be found in Lions where the male is significantly bigger than the females and they never hunt or aid towards their young's development aside from protecting them. Extremes of neutrality can be found in Meerkats where both the males and females aid directly in bringing up the young, both sexes fight rival gangs and theres very little difference in body size.

Think of the advantages of having the physical and mental extremes of the male/female gender coupled with the lack of social inhibitions of gender neutrality. Following the evolution of humans as an example, you could have a physical male with an extreme of this gender neutrality and instead of going off with the other males to hunt for food, he stays behind with the women and children. Now the females and children have a strong male to protect them should an animal attack or to move to the alpha male role should the rest of the males fail to return from hunting. Likewise, females with the same extreme might often go hunting with the males, making their numbers bigger and giving them a better chance of downing more and/or bigger prey but is still able to bare children should they get seperated from the rest of the tribe.

Its all about diversity to survive. However, in the modern day now that we are doing so well we have for some reason reverted back to Male/Female homogenization. Unfortunatly (and ironically) its an artifical creation and goes against natural programming in humans. Some modern day proof is the ability for a male to raise a child by himself. There are very few non gender neutral creatures on earth capable of raising offspring if they're not programmed to that gender. They just don't have the instict, but humans do.

That in my opinion is what we (CD's) are. We are certainly not a minority by any sense of the word and i don't beleive it to be a modern development. We're not limited to male and female, we go anywhere inbetween. Its human nature. Society is artificial. Society is something we can change, our nature is not.

[StaceyJane]

Of course crossdressing is a choice. The choice is to crossdress and feel good about myself or not crossdress and be driven crazy by the desire.

[curse within]

Of course crossdressing is a choice. The choice is to crossdress and feel good about myself or not crossdress and be driven crazy by the desire. I know of that desire... That's why I say if on the that Island I was speaking of earlier and was rescued the first thing I would do when I got back to the real world wouldn't be, get a big juicy steak or Icecream, it would be getting into my stash to cure the overwelming urge to feel fem.

[Charleen]

For me being a CD is not a choice. It is part of who I am. The choice comes in to play when I decide to wear the clothing I'm comfortable in or not. When I was inh the Service, I went 3 years dressing the part. Lately, I have been in full male mode at work. Small town and it makes my life easier, yet I still wear the proper undies and knee-hi's under my boots. Why? It's more comfortable and feels right.

[TGMarla]

CW, you're splitting hairs, and you know we all hate split ends! :D Of course, I'm not referring to physical needs to survive. I'm talking about human behavior. Eating and breathing is not a behavior, but a necessity. When a disorder is manifested in one's eating habits, eating is still a physical need. Crossdressing for me is a very important mental need. I've been at this so long, I don't know how to not be a crossdresser. I don't have any idea how it is to not want to wear dresses and other feminine items. I don't know what it's like to go through an entire day where transgender issues don't come to mind at some time. So in that light, it is a need, and not a choice. I cannot choose to not think about it, as these thoughts now come to me involuntarily. There is no choice involved. And the actual behavior of putting on the clothing and the accessories is now as natural to me as it is for "regular" guys to not even think about it.

[curse within]

Your right Marla I am sorry, just making a point if no smokes I don't smoke , if no beers I don't drink beer..If no clothes,,,,I go buy new ones.. It's a constant battle ,if you will to keep her locked up ,,she always wins ,,she always has ..I am just suggesting, like on cast away , no clothes no dressing up..

[Greymancd]

It is a very interesting topic that I toss back and forth all the time. Since the desire to dress has only recently been strong I can look back over my life and see that it has been there in me all along. I think I dress more now firstly because the desire is stronger secondly I have the opportunity. I do pick and choose when I dress though because some times it would not be appropriate for me to do so in my circumstances. I value my marriage and my family so I balance my desires with my wifes acceptance and boundaries. I do though still have the desire to dress when I cannot or choose not to. I believe it is part of who I am and for me it has clarified some sexual issues I have had all my post pubescent life. For some reason now I seem to be able to differentiate between sexual desires and sexuality desires. Now I seem to be expressing myself more through my sexuality (my crossdressing) as opposed to sexual gratification. I love to crossdress and it makes me feel wonderful and sexy and is opening up a whole new world of expression and viewing of the world.

[TGMarla]

But whole lots of thinking about it, and given the opportunity, on go the clothes. So.....choice?

[curse within]

Yes, choice as I have one arm behind my back.. You see it isn't the clothing it's the theroy ..Right? The clothing only enhances the urges as it helps fullfill the urge to express your fem side.

Go back in time if you will..Think about the genetic profile of the Transgendered , we didn't have the clothing of today, it goes back to the rabbit fur and bear hide .. The urge to express your fem side putting the clothing on is a choice..

[Greymancd]

Yes Marla given the opportunity on go the clothes choice or not....and I like it LOL!

[Tammy298]

Since I primarily underdress or dress at nighttime, I find that if I haven't done either for more than a week, I just get a real urge to put on some stockings, even if it's just for a couple hours. I've tried to understand this "urge", but in the end, I give into it since I enjoy it immensely and it hurts no one!
Adding a bra and nightgown at bedtime, and even just snuggling with my wife during the night is soooo relaxing. I can't explain it, and I just don't both trying. It just feels so right!

[Lorileah]

Well said, now keeping that in mnd as far with it being a choice or a matter of need? To me a matter of need is food ,shelter and water along with air..

But if you were stranded on a Island with plenty of food,water and air, with out any female clothing would you survive ? Yes you could ,so dressing is a matter of choice just as smoking over eating and drug use.

Not a great analogy at all. If a gay person is stranded on a deserted island would they quit being gay? No, they would be non-practicing gays. Nothing in this make-up is a survival need. In truth, a gay person stranded on an island with heterosexual females would not turn straight because that was all there was there. They may mate as part of the survival mechanism. But they would still desire male sexual partners. If I was stranded on an island I would probably go naked. It does not mean I have quit being a crossdresser. It just means the "means" are not there. The same can be said about the three analogies you use. In fact the "over eater" would probably continue to over eat.

[AshleyCDFL]

I would say for me at least that crossdressing is a hobby, one that I enjoy immensely, but a hobby none the less. Just like all my other hobbies, I can choose to indulge or not indulge, but giving up any one of my hobbies would sadden me a bit. I would be just as disappointed if I never got to read another book or play guitar ever again as I would be by not crossdressing. Everyone needs hobbies to keep them busy, maybe this is a bit weird for some people, but then again there are many hobbies that I'll never understand either, and quite frankly I think I would rather be associated with crossdressing than some them as well!

[Jonelle]

I think that it is my choice to crossdress!!; however, I think I would still do it if I didn't want to anymore!

[BLUE ORCHID]

It's who I am it's what I do I am just the vehicle CDing engine that drives me.
Going down lifes highways on cruise control.
maybe some day I will be in control but for now I am just going
along for the ride 80/20 % drab/femme
.
.................................................. ..............thanks..........ORCHID

[Jenniferpl]

I kind of treat it as a hobby that I have to do. I have learned to just put on a bra in the morning , even when I do not want to, and go about my day. It frees up my mind to do other things and prevents me consently thinking about it.

Life is all about choices we make. Cross dressing is not the only thing in my life. I have other interest also. I have only so many dollars to spend and I try to spend those dollars wisely.

[Greymancd]

The whole deserted Island thing gets to me I think I would just make a grass skirt. It would be much easier than making grass pants!

[battybattybats]

There are plenty of animals that change sex (eg many fish) or change themselves to look like the other sex (eg the Giant Cuttlefish) or which have behaviours normally belonging to one sex (female birds singing male birds songs).

There are examples of CDs who discover relatives are CDs such as the recently departed Motor Journalist Legend Peter Wherret who discovered his father was also a CD.

The evolutionary advantages of homosexuality and of non-reproducing siblings is called Kin Selection (found in ants) and studies have been done involving the crossdressing '3rd sex' of the people of Samoa showing that they provide an advantage in the success in life of their siblings, that the crossdressing accepted in Samoa results in kin-selection.

A gene associated with TS has been found, biological brain differences in TSs and Gays and Lesbians have all been found. I would be shocked if such is not found for CDs when they get around to FMRI scans and brain dissections of us. Chances are bieng a CD is merely to have a mild case of TS just as you can be born with Severe or Mild Autism.

Approximately 1 in 60 people are biologically Intersex to some degree anyway though most don't know it.

I am conviced that the drive for our CDing is neuroanatomical, related to the Gender Dysphoria that TSs go through and that pink fog is related to the dysphoria crises that many TSs go through and the resultant positive feellings when they get treatment and transition. I expect when finally neuro-science moves onto us Pink Fog will be re-termed something like Gender Dysphoric Repression Cessation Euphoria or the like.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

For me, it's not a choice. It's too much a part of who i am.

[JoannaCaroline]

I still like the argument that I hear from a lot of gay people when talking to a straight person about choosing to sin and be gay;

So when did you choose to be straight?

If the church told you it was wrong to be straight and right to be gay, could you decide that you wanted to date men (questin for men)?

I think the same applies here.

[cindybarnes]

Even tho I can choose what to wear when Im home I didnt choose to have this other side ingrained inside me.
Nobody dressed me up as a kid, there was no reason for me to have these thoughts when I was four or five years old. So where did it come from ? If it was just a weird thought it would have come and gone.
Figuring this out was a big part of accepting who I am and is why I dont wonder or worry about it anymore

Cindy

[Carly D.]

I try to think of an answer if someone I know were to catch me.. the answer to "why are you dressed this way?" and I can't answer them.. I can't think of an answer that would just put into their minds "oh, I see, I get it".. I wish I had an answer that would hit them so hard that they would say that.. but I can't think of anything that deep.. that clever.. so mind numbingly briliant.. except to say "42" and hope they are into Douglas Adams as much as me..

[docrobbysherry]

I only started dressing about 11+ years ago, after age 50. So, I often think my CDing is a "phase" I'll eventually pass thru. Altho, I've NEVER had an activity that was SO OVERWHELMINGLY COMPULSIVE! I'm now COMPLETELY obsessed with dressing!:eek:

After all, as a kid, I collected nearly every kind of animal on the planet, and built model airplanes, boats, cars, from scratch! Now, I've no desire for pets, or to build things! ( Except fem connected items, like masks!:heehee:) I used to play in bands and orchestras. I was good! But, don't desire to play any more.

As a young man, I became interested in various sexual fetishes. Bondage became my favorite! Now, I rarely think about anything except DRESSING! And, yes Marla! It's very sexual in nature for me, too!

These other things were ALL VERY IMPORTANT in my life! But not any more!
So, one day, I expect to become increasingly disinterested in CDing. As I have the other things in the past.

The question for ME is;
Will I be HAPPIER without the desire to dress, or NOT?

Oh well! I'll STILL have half a million pics to play with, if I EVER give up dressing!:D

[juneW]

For me, it's a want, a desire, but not a compulsion. And definitely not a "need". However, I also "want" to listen to music; I "want" to have a fun with my friends; I "want" to watch interesting movies, eat tasty food, and read great books.
As human beings, we're more than just our biological necessities; and CDing is just as important in my life as any other hobby that satisfies or pleases me. If I absolutely had to, I could give it up, but I certainly don't think I will anytime soon.

[marla01]

A few comments...

- Who I am is somewhat under my control, but biology and society have probably had a much greater effect, so one might say I have little choice of who I am.

- What I do with who I am is totally my choice.

- I choose to be me, and live the life I do because it makes me a better person. Being transgendered gives me way more than any minor cost I have to face.

Marla

[Melanie R]

Being a crossdresser I believe is biological. Whether you express your inner femininity through wearing feminine clothing is a choice. I am Melanie no matter what I am wearing.

[Joy Carter]

If it wasn't such a stigma, I'd dress this way twenty four seven. That being said, I really belive in the female brain in the male body theory. My body just over developed for my brain.

[Ruth]

I suppressed my CDing for a long time because I believed it was a vice: I wasn't sure about whether it was a need or a choice, but I thought it was wrong anyway.
Eventually my attitude changed and I began to see it as basically an aspect of my personality: I'm still not totally clear about whether it's a need or a choice, but I enjoy it without guilt now.
And I recognise my feminine side more clearly, and I'm aware of it when I'm not dressed, so I am beginning to separate the parts out, so my actual CDing is a choice, but my transgender nature is simply a fact of life, about which I had or have no choice.

[marla01]

That being said, I really belive in the female brain in the male body theory.

Perhaps this would be worth a separate thread, but some questions occured to me.

If I may ask, what does having a 'female brain' (whatever that is) have to do with crossdressing (or even SRS)? Do our brains 'sex' dictate our clothing? If so, how? Also, why is our modern clothing so different from 50 years ago, or the clothing of New Guinea tribes persons, or the Roman Empire, ancient Babylonia (etc, etc, etc)? Is this huge variety of clothing as we move through time and cultures dictated by changing brains? Or do cultures effect our physical brains?

What is the cause and effect?

And what exactly is a 'female brain'? What are the criteria and characteristics? I assume there are some huge and very measurable differences between female and male brains if they effect our clothing choices (and social representations), so what are they and what is the best means of measuring it?

Just some interesting questions for discussion.

Marla

[msginaadoll]

I think a lot depends on how you define the term crossdressing. Is it simply "To dress in the clothing characteristic of the opposite sex" as defined in my dictionary. If so theyn it is a choice- I chose to put on the clothes I am not forced to dress. By the definition the times I did not wear those said clothes I was not a crossdresser. I think it goes deeper then. For me at least it is part of who I am. I rember at 8 or 9 wanting to wear my neighbors clothes, maybe even further back. I was not certainly something I chose to desire. No idea where it came from. I do believe I can chose to stop dressing, at least for extended periods( I certainly have) However i will still have the urge, desire, feel the loss of not doing so. Just my two cents.

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I could choose to stop crossdressing any time I like. The problem is I would NOT like to stop. I love being a crossdresser. This aspect of who I am has brought much happiness in to my life. I would not choose to stop cding any more than I would choose to stop eating food.

I could choose to stop eating food any time I like. Seriously - I can stop whenever I want to... of course, I don't want to. If I ever did choose stop eating food, I'm sure it would land me in a psychiatric hospital. I bet the same would happen if I chose to stop cding.

Did that answer the question? :)

[AshleyCDFL]

I try to think of an answer if someone I know were to catch me.. the answer to "why are you dressed this way?" and I can't answer them.. I can't think of an answer that would just put into their minds "oh, I see, I get it".. I wish I had an answer that would hit them so hard that they would say that.. but I can't think of anything that deep.. that clever.. so mind numbingly briliant.. except to say "42" and hope they are into Douglas Adams as much as me..

Love the Hitchhiker reference! I love the movie and just got the book, haven't had time to read it just yet....