"In Case Of Accident/Fatality, Treat As Female"

[Senban]

Okay, so in this (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1686664&posted=1#post1686664)thread, I raised the issue about how we'd be treated in the event of an accident or a fatality.

As which gender would you want to be treated in the event of accident/fatality and why?

How are the rescue services supposed to know what your wishes are?

Should we perhaps choose to carry some form of Gender Identity Card so that in case of accident/fatality, our choices will be known to those dealing with the situation?

Apologies if this has been discussed in the past (I'm sure it has) but it's worth a bit of discussion I think.

[SarahLynn]

I'm a bit confused by your question however it is my belief that the attending rescue personell will treat you as a body in need of medical assistance. Other than that i see no need to further complicate matters with a choice as to how one should be treated. Mind you, you might get treated for internal injuries different at the hospital but not "in the field". After all women have different anatomy then men and their needs are different than a mans it that area.

SarahLynn

[Senban]

Well yes, sorry, perhaps I should clarify a little.

The people on the scene immediately will treat the meat in front of them and they don't care what you look like or what gender you self-identify as etc.

Let's use a hypothetical example then. You're in a car accident on your way home tonight. You are treated at the scene for a head injury and whilst not too badly injured you are unconscious. You are taken to hospital and stuck in a male ward. When you wake up in the morning you are distressed to find that your male name is on the tag above your bed and that you are in a male ward when in fact you choose to use a female name and self-identify as female. How were the ambulance/hospital staff expected to know your personal choices and as a side issue, is it worth asking also whether they even have to respect those choices, especially if by doing so it could affect other patients?

Discuss.

[battybattybats]

Anyone heard of Tyra Hunter?

I'd be happy to get better care...
http://www.gender.org/remember/people/tyrahunter.html

http://data.club.cc.cmu.edu/~julie/text/hunter.html


When fire department personnel arrived at the scene Tyra and the driver had been pulled from the car and were lying on the ground. As a crowd gathered, a male firefighter began treating Tyra for her injuries. That is, until he cut open her pants leg and noticed she had male genitalia. Tyra was a male-to-female transsexual.

At that point, according to eye witnesses, the firefighter stood up and backed away from Tyra, who was semi-conscious and gasping for breath. One witness quoted him as saying, "this ain't no bitch," as he began joking with the other fire department personnel at the scene. Another witness at the scene heard one of the firefighters say, "look, it's got a **** and balls." While the firefighters stood around making jokes about her, Tyra's treatment was discontinued temporarily.

People at the scene, frustrated with the firefighters' behavior, began shouting for them to help Tyra. Finally, some other firefighters went to work at treating her injuries. She later was transported to D . C . General Hospital, where she was pronounced dead.



First things first, I'd actually want to be confidant that unlike Tyra I would be treated. After that I'd rather a competant hospital set up based on specific needs not any nonsense of having 'male wards' and 'female wards'.

The 'effect' on other patients of having a TG person who identifies as the same sex as them in the same ward as them is no different to the 'effect' on white patients of having a black patient in the same ward as them.

There are enough medical facts about Transsexuals at least to make any hospital that knowingly discriminates against them in clear breach of medical ethics.

And finally I'd like them to call me whatever i asked them to call me.

[Karren H]

In case of an accident.... Don't worry about anything else... Save my friggin life!!!

[pamela_a]

Having spent 14 years in EMS/Fire Rescue your training is to take care of the patient. Unfortunately no matter what field you will find people with the same mentality as those initial firefighters who started treating Tyra.

Pertaining to the question about waking up a male or female ward, IMO at worst you would end up in a room with another male patient, although I doubt if you were unconscious you would be just "dumped" into a semi-private room. Again assuming you were unconscious and all of your ID was in your male name the hospital staff would use that information. Once conscious you could communicate your wishes to the staff.

[Lorileah]

Batty, that is a sad commentary about certain people in the world.

In a medical setting and especially an emergency setting the first responders are REQUIRED to treat the victim to the best of their ability. Failure to do so would and could result in civil and more likely criminal penalties. Most states have "Good Samaritan laws" which would allow those bystanders who were standing around to jump in and do what the responders had evidently stopped if they had any medical training at all without fear of repercussions. If there is proof that the first responders stopped life saving treatment then they should be fired and in the US they could be sued along with their jurisdiction in that case.

In response to the first thread, as mentioned first responders will treat you like a human who was a victim of some trauma. Their job is to stabilize and transport. In ahospital setting at least here in the US we don't really have male/female wards any more. We have wards based on medical need, thus a head trauma victim would be in a the neuro ward. Rooms however could be segregated my sex but most rooms now are either private or semi-private. I would think that no matter your wishes, you would be treated as your gender as described on your drivers license or medical ID card. If you are transitioning, and have documentation for this, you would be treated as such.

Is the question about how you are addressed? After you are stable and conscious, you could request medical personnel to address you as desired. Prior to that they will do what is needed within the parameters of the injury no matter if you have a phallus or not. A male head trauma victim is no different than a female one (in spite of all the arguments about how male female brains are different) The exemption of course would be if that part of your anatomy was injured then they would HAVE to treat you as your biological gender and do what is needed to save your life over your genitalia.

One would hope that a person who was injured would receive the same care no matter what their sex. But as Batty pointed out, you can't control if you get the moron draw.

[Senban]

Thread...drifting...must...restore...topic! :doh:

To a degree, try to keep this in context with the original thread which inspired this one. I did link to it in my OP but here's the link again.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1686664&posted=1#post1686664

I'll also add a tiny quote from what I originally wrote there to help shape the discussion but please read the original thread and the links which Batty provided in that thread.


I mean if I was murdered on my way home tonight, the newspaper reports would list me as male with a male name despite my chosen self-identity. When it comes to reporting a murder, the media aren't going to call round and check the background, they're going to report a murder with the details they're given.

Perhaps we should all carry Gender Identity Cards so that in case of accidents we can be treated as the gender we have chosen?

[battybattybats]

Batty, that is a sad commentary about certain people in the world.

In a medical setting and especially an emergency setting the first responders are REQUIRED to treat the victim to the best of their ability. Failure to do so would and could result in civil and more likely criminal penalties. Most states have "Good Samaritan laws" which would allow those bystanders who were standing around to jump in and do what the responders had evidently stopped if they had any medical training at all without fear of repercussions. If there is proof that the first responders stopped life saving treatment then they should be fired and in the US they could be sued along with their jurisdiction in that case.

Well there was a law suit.

From: http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2007/08/trya-hunter-anniversary.html


At that point, according to eyewitnesses, the firefighter, later identified as Adrian Williams stood up and backed away from Tyra. She was semi-conscious, complaining about pain and gasping for breath as he was quoted as saying by one witness, "This bitch ain't no girl...It's a nigger, he got a dick."



But the nightmare was just beginning for Tyra. The DC General Hospital ER staff compounded the insulting neglect of the fire fighters. A doctor refused to treat her and she died of blunt force trauma at 5:20 PM in the now closed hospital's emergency room.



On December 11, 1998 a jury awarded Margie Hunter $2.9 million in damages. The jury determined that DC Fire Department employees violated the 1977 DC Human Rights Law, and that Tyra Hunter's death was caused by medical malpractice at DC General. Experts testified during the trial that had Tyra received proper medical care at either stage of treatment, she had an 86% chance of surviving the accident.



The city further angered DC transgender residents by immediately appealing the decision. The case was later settled for $1.75 million. DC transpeople were further enraged when they discovered that not only were none of the firefighters at the scene disciplined, but Adrian Williams had subsequently received a promotion.


There is some good news.
...the sensitivity training that DC fire department personnel attend is named in her honor ...

It's been a decade, I'd be hopeful things had improved but a recent case in my own state in Australia where two police officers in my state outed a TS domestic violence victim to her abusive boyfriend then released him resulting in her being badly assaulted and falling from a balcony only getting community service doesn't fill me with confidance, especially with one politician calling for the conviction to be dropped and instead the victim charged with sexual assault!

And a TS friend in my own area has been turned away from a womens shelter as well as having had medical staff refuse her treatment untill the local hospital was threatened with legal action, and thats just in the last 3 years or so.

So I'm still far more worried about getting treated than I am about the niceties of gender diversity recognition afterwards.

[Satin_Lover_13]

It as been asked by me before. If I recall most said I am dead so it does not matter. For me most of my family and friends would not get it. Throw my body in the box already it is cold out here. LOL

[Mary Lee]

So I wake up in the recovery room or ward. I still have my makeup on and my nails are still polished. Where is my bra my breast forms? Where is my purse with my ID and other stuff. What will I ware home. What if someone comes to visit, who does not know, and my nails are still polished? etc etc and so forth. :brolleyes:

[Carly D.]

"If I accidentally die.. VIOLATE ME ANYWAY YOU WANT TO".. ok not really..

[battybattybats]

"If I accidentally die.. VIOLATE ME ANYWAY YOU WANT TO".. ok not really..

Not so funny actually.... my family has a condition where we can appear to be clinically dead. My Aunt twice woke up on the way to the morgue! In Romania a 16 year old girl came out of such a state because of the necrophiliac morticians rape! The Mortician ran off screaming! The family refused to press charges as otherwise the girl would have been buried alive.

Not that this generation of my family has to fear being buried alive like some ancestors... replacing blood with embalming fluid is fatal.


So I wake up in the recovery room or ward. I still have my makeup on and my nails are still polished. Where is my bra my breast forms? Where is my purse with my ID and other stuff. What will I ware home. What if someone comes to visit, who does not know, and my nails are still polished? etc etc and so forth. :brolleyes:

Good point! For someone not out to all their family etc such a situation could well be a serious problem!

[CindyT]

in case of an accident.... Don't worry about anything else... Save my friggin life!!!

i'm with you on this one!

[trannie T]

I had to fill out an emergency notification card at work, "Who do you want notified in case of an emergency?" I wrote, "An ambulance"
If I am unconcious it will make no difference,if concious I can make my feelings known.

[2B Natasha]

Well. I suppose if I woke up and was identified as one gender or another and that was not the gender I wanted to be identified as I would be to ask them to change it. Hospital staff will call you what ever you want. They see you as a piece of flesh and our VERY understanding.

Waking up to find your SO there and you in a wig and make-up would make an interesting way to bring up the subject. Otherwise if they knew they would not care as long as you where going to live.

The other assumption that you made was that there are male and female wards. Perhaps in the UK there is, but I have never seen one in the US or while I was living in Holland. So that would not be an issue for must people. Do they really have those in the UK?

What about if we passed. That would leave some open question's for who ever had to arrange the memorial services, but that is their problem and not mine. Yes my memory would be muddled but to take care of that I would suggest you leave it in your last will and testament what gender you want to be buried/cremated/burned up/throw over board as and that you don't want anyone to view the body.

[Cary]

[QUOTE=Karren Hutton;1686729]In case of an accident.... Don't worry about anything else... Save my friggin life!!![/QUOTE

Karren, I'm with you on this one!

[battybattybats]

The other assumption that you made was that there are male and female wards. Perhaps in the UK there is, but I have never seen one in the US or while I was living in Holland. So that would not be an issue for must people. Do they really have those in the UK?


There used to be in Australia. In fact last week I spoke to someone who was involved in getting a hospital for 'the incurable' to allow co-ed for elderly people many of whom were married couples some years ago.

[Persephone]

Not that this generation of my family has to fear being buried alive like some ancestors... replacing blood with embalming fluid is fatal.

According to some (which means "not according to others"), a famous actress, Mademoiselle Rachel, died in Paris in 1858. She awoke from her trance on the embalming table, unfortunately after the process of embalming had already started. She died about ten hours later as a result of the chemicals that had already been injected into her veins.

[jackieo]

I were my dog tags still when we go out of town or a trip and I were a medical id bracelet.Just save my life and all the rest we will figure out later! :D

[Karren H]

Actually if your out of the country that may not be such a good thing to have on you when your unconsuous... Especially in Afganastan where its legal to rape women... Or in countrys where they treat womens like slaves... Or you could end up in a haram if your in Saudia Arabia. (Or Utah!!).


And even in the US... Treat me like a woman = treat me like crap and give me a low paying job!! Yeah!! Sign me up for that...

[Kate Simmons]

When I collapsed at the club some 4 years ago I was half in and half out of femme when the ambulance came. The EMT asked me if I wanted to be addressed as "sir" or "ma'am". I told him it didn't matter as that was the last thing on my mind at the time. Once we get to the ER, they have to treat us according to biological sex anyway.

[Marilynn]

"In Case Of Accident/Fatality, Treat As Female"

So this is a transgender issue. I'm a guy in a dress, so just stop the bleeding and stop the pain. I can deal with the smirks and wiseass comments - I'm a big boy. When you've been punched in the head a few times, an insensitive comment is the least of your worries.

In case of accident, just treat me. In case of fatality? I'm a dude - call 'em like you see 'em.

[CharleneT]

IF a person were a post-Op TS, this might be a subject that could be very important. There are some treatments that have different effects in a GG vs GM, women and men DO have subtly different chemistries. There could be a reason for the hospital staff to know.

[Berta82]

I agree with Paula A. Having also been in the EMS profession for over 24 years, I would, and hopefuly my co-workers would, treat any patient with respect, dignity, and professionalism. I personnaly have never come across a CD or TS but it wouldn't make a difference in the way I would provide care. One thing to remember about the fire/emergency services and taking a great quote from Rescue Me,"If we we took away the big red trucks and turnout gear this would be nothing more than a big sorority house".