Gaining more social acceptance

[emmicd]

As a cross dresser what strides do you think will be necessary in better informing the public and gaining more social acceptance?

Do you think one day the dress code may be blurred and we can choose as we wish what to wear?

Emmi

[celeste26]

There will always be those freaks who insist that thier way is the best way, but in general social acceptance is gaining gfround every year.

[mariej]

"Do you think one day the dress code may be blurred and we can choose as we wish what to wear?"


I hope I live long enough!!

I suppose we can now if our skins are thick enough!

L&P
Mariej
xx

[FionaAlexis]

Emmi,

I think the blurring of well defined gender differences in dress will be the end of CDs and TVs - not sure about TSs. Doubt there were too many crossdressers in Mao's China or on the Starship Enterprise - I'm thinking sneaking back to my cabin to slip into Uhuru's uniform. Oh bum, I've picked up Sulu's by mistake again!

I think there is a some degree of general social acceptance now. Most countries? have acts against TGs/CDs etc. written into their anti- discrimination laws. I suppose what will push it foward faster is when tranny celebs show up to public dos en femme. And when we all come out. And when trannies form groups that raise money for community work?

But, as I've said somewhere before, the day the average guy next door comes home and slips into a mini and heels to head down the local pub for a drink with the boys - is the day I purge - yet again.

Fiona xx

[Rachel Ann]

Do you think one day the dress code may be blurred and we can choose as we wish what to wear?
Probably not. There's too much opposition from both men and women. Too many have too much at stake psychologically in "gender = sex", and are threatened by the possibility that it ain’t necessarily so.

Anyway, for me, dressing is a means to an end – bringing out my female mind, heart and soul. Perhaps one day I’ll learn how to do that without dressing. (Part of me hopes not. :p )



I suppose we can now if our skins are thick enough!
Yes, that is so true, and it applies to so many things! I have been getting bad looks and attitudes from people for most of my life about all sorts of things, since long before I became conscious of my TG self. I can pretty much let that roll off of me as long as it doesn’t stand in the way of something I want.



There will always be those freaks who insist that their way is the best way, but in general social acceptance is gaining ground every year.
I can live with those who think that their way is the best way. It’s the ones who think that their way is the only way whom I have a problem with. :mad:

Social acceptance? Unless it’s a matter of what job I may have or where I can go to school, I don’t really care. I’ll settle for people not giving me a bad time. My friends accept me. :) What else matters?



... Doubt there were too many crossdressers in Mao's China or on the Starship Enterprise ...
How could you tell? :p

[pinkcoma]

I think as we discover (as more and more research is discovering); that personality traits (which i feel include fetishes and such) are not only enviromental but also genetic, that a girl can be PHYSICALLY born a male or vice versa , that one can be BORN gay or bi or straight.
I think as social awareness of the fact that these are not conscience choices people are making increases so will acceptance.
However i don't think that universal acceptance will ever exist, for the simple reason that all people are not born with the same fetishes... and as such will never fully understand another's personal preferences....

people naturally fear the unknown.

mir.

[Tristen Cox]

As a cross dresser what strides do you think will be necessary in better informing the public and gaining more social acceptance?

Do you think one day the dress code may be blurred and we can choose as we wish what to wear?

Emmi
As I tried to explain in the Purpose of the site thread(but going beyond the site):

Those of us who get out and about are our ambassadors. Since we are not the norm yet in the world, we rely on those people whom the public does get see to show us in the best light toward gaining acceptence. Unfortunatily the public has a very strong stereotypical image of us so one wrong move by someone in the public eye and we get set back as a majority.

As has been posted here, when a true crime has been commited they focus on "and he was wearing a dress" not the fact that the person was a confirmed rapist in the first place. The big word they see is CROSSDRESSER and to them that says it all. So we have a hell of a fight to overcome things like that which will always somehow pop up. But the more of us get out and show the public we are just normal people and harm no one, the sooner we can win them over and win our own freedom.

I hear Mona now going "Sitting in the closet doesn't help anything". No it doesn't although for some of us there is no choice. For the rest who can get out, we should be supportive and encourage them in the right directions. We need laws passed, and we need to be smart about what we do in the public eye. Narrow is the path.

*steps off the melting soap*

[Natalie x]

Education, education, education, education, education, education, education, education, education, education, education.

What we do now can change the future. Those of us who can take the message out there, should (and I realise that it is only a small number of us who can). Talk to people about it, friends, family, employers, anyone who will listen. Dress to go out whenever you safely can. Above all, show them that acceptance of others' differences is the foundation of our whole civilisation (see the other thread that's running at the moment "fashion critic" to understand the importance of that).

There is some hope. I decided to tell my boss, yesterday, why I have started to go to work wearing lipstick and nail varnish. She said that her grandson (about 13 years old), who came to visit recently, told her that he liked Garry (my male self) and said "I don't think he's gay, I think he just crossdresses". Perfectly matter-of-fact about it. Oh, I hope we can all be like that one day.

[Stephanie Brooks]

I'll add that if we're ambassadors and educators, then this is our embassy and school campus.

WE are what the public sees.

When GGs discover their husbands crossdress, this site is one of the places they visit. What they see can either confirm their worst fears or perhaps help resolve their issues. Sometimes it might help to look through their eyes to see how we look to them.

Look at the avatars and what do you see? Do you see someone who has a positive outlook or someone who's being vulgar? Do you see someone with whom you'd feel comfortable talking, or do you see someone who is scary? This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with passing or "padding the profile" with images that have no meaning to the member.

Imagine this. We're all gathered in one place for a party (I wish!!!!!!) and all we have are our avatars. The general public is invited. Are we going to be inviting or repulsive to our guests?

Look at the posts and what do you see? Do you see people trying to figure out how to live as transgendered people in a non-transgendered world, or do you see people trying to be deceptive? Do you see people who have been hurt and are trying to deal with it, or do you see people trying to be mean to others? Do you see people with a sense of humour or a bunch of dour angry people who know the One True Path? Do you see people trying to have a little fun and enjoy life, or do you see a bunch of hurtful people?

I bow to Tristen and Admin for keeping the adult discussions separate from the main forums. Thank You!

Now let's return to our party. By how we are, by how we act, will we be good hosts? Will be be good ambassadors? Will we be teachers remembered for showing a different way, or will we be rejected?

It's up to all of us.

[Deelite]

I think acceptance will take time, how long, nobody knows, as others have said educating people, is the only way, and more exposure to crossdressing on T.V. will only help make it more the 'Norm'.

Since the gay community are totally acceptable now i have noticed how many 'gay' type programmes have been made for T.V. Over here in England, one such programme was 'Queer as Folk' not to mention all the programmes you girls have in the U.S.

This has helped immeasurably to make the gay scene even more socially acceptable.

So, on a positive note for us CD's, there is a guy on a game show running here in England at the moment called Big Brother, he is a crossdresser, and likes to run around the Big Brother House wearing Stiletto Heels and clothes borrowed from his girly housemates!

His exposure to the millions of viewers, will only make crossdressing more socially 'normal' and so help educate all the idiots out there who think we are freaks.

Who knows, he may get his own show after Big Brother, hopefully based on crossdressing!!

Luv Dee.

[Julie York]

The great social philosopher Amelie has been giving you all the answer over and over again.

To be accepted, understood and destroy stereotypes......more people need to be out there being seen as harmless, pleasant people, just like anyone else, but they have a particular clothing choice. (i.e. they'd be out there educating folk) Like the first women to wear trousers, the first openly gays, the first blacks in mixed schools....they were all 'freaks' who ate babies until there were so many of them for the public to actually see and judge for themselves that the stereotype and the fear were destroyed. Well, pretty much anyway.

The debate about "WHO" does this, these brave pioneers, is another issue.




Bow....(huge applause etc etc....people throw flowers at the stage).

[Jenny Beth]

Acceptance will be a long time comming. It is true that lately there have been shows that put us in good light but as they say, one bad apple spoils the whole bushel. The Jerry Springer show has done more damage to our image than anyone, all in the name of entertainment. Unfortunately his garbage has high ratings and any good media attention we get is overshadowed by his sensationalism. There is a show in Canada called Kink. It has done several stories on crossdressers and to be honest we were put in good light. However the fact that we were lumped in with gay/lesbian relationships and BDSM it gives the general public the notion that we are into that too. The media can certainly present us in good light but they are also our worst enemy. It's all about ratings and selling news papers. A guy could rob a bank and it won't make the news.....put him in a dress and it's front page.

[Rachel Ann]

The great social philosopher Amelie has been giving you all the answer over and over again.
Quite right! And the subtext to her wise pronouncements is DON'T GIVE A DAMN! Just be yourself with confidence and let everybody else think whatever they like.

[Rachel_740]

As a cross dresser what strides do you think will be necessary in better informing the public and gaining more social acceptance?

Do you think one day the dress code may be blurred and we can choose as we wish what to wear?

Emmi

I wear what I choose to anyway. Don't have any male clothes having transitioned.

Anne

[Stephanie Brooks]

Quite right! And the subtext to her wise pronouncements is DON'T GIVE A DAMN. Just be yourself with confidence and let everybody else think whatever they like.
I agree with the philosophy overall, it's quite Emersonian: you must be what you are, regardless of others' views.

I disagree wrt the thread topic. "Gaining more social acceptance" is not necessarily compatible with "DON'T GIVE A DAMN".

[Tristen Cox]

Here's a thought, maybe a bit off topic. I went to schools and they had every subject to study. They studied different cultures under the heading social studies. They discussed racism and all that but never went as far as really giving all the facts as they should be told so that the students had a full box to judge for themselves(maybe they thought they did, but it wasn't as complete as it should have been). They taught this and that about gay, lesbian, etc etc...But it would be something quite different to ask them how they felt in those situations as if they were those people. If we taught the youth from the begining about acceptance and intolerance, along WITH us doing our part as adults to be free, things might get moving faster. It only takes a teacher to address specifics like gender dysphoria and crossdressing. Something I feel should be part of learning when you're young, not when you're 25.

[Priscilla1018]

I'll add that if we're ambassadors and educators, then this is our embassy and school campus.

WE are what the public sees.

When GGs discover their husbands crossdress, this site is one of the places they visit. What they see can either confirm their worst fears or perhaps help resolve their issues. Sometimes it might help to look through their eyes to see how we look to them.

Look at the avatars and what do you see? Do you see someone who has a positive outlook or someone who's being vulgar? Do you see someone with whom you'd feel comfortable talking, or do you see someone who is scary? This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with passing or "padding the profile" with images that have no meaning to the member.

Imagine this. We're all gathered in one place for a party (I wish!!!!!!) and all we have are our avatars. The general public is invited. Are we going to be inviting or repulsive to our guests?

Look at the posts and what do you see? Do you see people trying to figure out how to live as transgendered people in a non-transgendered world, or do you see people trying to be deceptive? Do you see people who have been hurt and are trying to deal with it, or do you see people trying to be mean to others? Do you see people with a sense of humour or a bunch of dour angry people who know the One True Path? Do you see people trying to have a little fun and enjoy life, or do you see a bunch of hurtful people?

I bow to Tristen and Admin for keeping the adult discussions separate from the main forums. Thank You!

Now let's return to our party. By how we are, by how we act, will we be good hosts? Will be be good ambassadors? Will we be teachers remembered for showing a different way, or will we be rejected?

It's up to all of us.

What in the HECK does our choice of avatar have to do with anything.If you don't like it have the courage to tell us,we are,after all, a family.

[Kimberly]

I honestly think working on a one to one basis with small groups is cool....

Like friendship groups: If you lay yourself out to your friends and say "this is who I am," then the people who stay will know that it isn't weird or something freaky because of what we say. There are MANY CDs out there, and I'm just one of them :)

[Stephanie Brooks]

Here's my question. Why do we need societies acceptance?
We need it because not everyone is as strong as you, Amelie. Also, not everyone comes to understand what they are at a young age.

I go out occasionally without much trouble. I do as I please. My life is rather messed up however, as I really didn't come to understand what I am until well into my marriage. Now it's a messed up life and I have a kid.

Foremost I want to ensure that home is a safe haven for my daughter. I don't know what she'll be, but it doesn't matter. Regardless of how the world is, home is safe.

Just because home is safe however, she'll need to be able to deal with the world as it is. Maybe she won't be different wrt sex, gender, and orientation, but as with everyone she will be different somehow. I can't and won't live her life for her. Yet I can help ensure she tries to learn and become informed.

Next, I want to make the world safer for me, and safer for others. I want a world where a kid who's transgendered, gay, lesbian, and/or bisexual has access to information and has the support of family and friends to be what they are. Generally that's not true for most today, certainly for the TG side. It will probably never be true for all, but I think it can be improved.

Would I have married if I'd understood what I was at a younger age? Might I have married someone else? Might I have transitioned? The only thing I can say is I wish I'd been able to make more informed decisions.

[Stephanie Brooks]

What in the HECK does our choice of avatar have to do with anything.If you don't like it have the courage to tell us,we are,after all, a family.
You can have any avatar you choose.

[misty_waves]

I believe that part of gaining social acceptance lies in continuing to disassociate gender identities with physical genitalia. I also believe that education plays an extremely important role. It is ironic that some on this board would say that gays have gained "total" social acceptance yet still be so upset by the fact that people assume they are gay because they crossdress. It is just too difficult for many people in this society to believe in the possibility that gender and sexual orientation are not biologically determined; and that one does not go hand-in-hand with the other.

When it comes down to it, I am in Amelie's corner on this one. Why do I need society's acceptance? Do I really want to depend on a group of nameless, faceless people to validate me? Or do I want to validate myself? And then you have to take into consideration all the different cultures in the world... to me, it becomes more and more clear that NO person could ever gain total acceptance, no matter who you are.

[misty_waves]

Stephanie - I just read your post after submitting my own. I totally understand what you're saying about the importance of working towards gaining society's acceptance because it makes life less confusing and difficult for younger generations of those like us. Being gay, I have always admired the battles that the generations before me fought so that my life could be better. I'm endlessly thankful to them for the things that they did that they may not have even realized at the time. I suppose what I was ultimately trying to say is that I don't allow myself to get caught up in what society thinks of me *personally*... but at the same time, it is important to me to spread the message so that younger people like me have someone to look up to.

[mand]

Acceptance is nice when it happens, and yes it does actually ocurr from time to time.
Is it important?......... I can only answer from my own experience. I have been going out in public since October 04, and still everytime I venture in to the big wide world I get scared inside as to what is going to happen. I would love to be able to go out and leave that scared feeling at home, acceptance would be my idea of heaven.
However as I said acceptance only ocurrs from time to time, most of the time I am met with impression of being ignored, which is fine by me.
I have been very lucky up to now and I have only met with a minimial amount of staring, whispering and a little distant behind the back name calling.
All in all the public has been much kinder and accepting to me than a certain UK TG website.
So how do you gain more social acceptance?................I know this is much easier said than done, get out in to the world and show people that we are nothing to fear, I think it's our secret lifestyle that is our own worst enemy.
However that is easier said than done, and for some the cost of being open could be devastating. So social acceptance is not going to happen overnight.

Then again who am I to talk of acceptance it took me 37 years to accept myself and then another 6 years before I dared venture out of my own front door.

love mand xxx

[Rachel Ann]

I disagree wrt the thread topic. "Gaining more social acceptance" is not necessarily compatible with "DON'T GIVE A DAMN".
It's a matter of degree. Acceptance and Respect are important to me when it comes to my friends. As far as Joe Sixpack goes, I'm not holding my breath.

The one thing I don't want is tolerance *ugh*. Accept me, respect me, honor me as a fellow person - but PLEASE don't tolerate me. If you do, I'm going to ignore you.

[kymmieLorain]

Quite right! And the subtext to her wise pronouncements is DON'T GIVE A DAMN! Just be yourself with confidence and let everybody else think whatever they like.

I agree with Rachel Ann. Both me and my wife have that idea. Me and my wife are into tattoos my wife has a tattoo on her left leg from her hip to her toes. I haved several myself. to us it's if you don't like them tough

years ago my oldest said , Dad has girl toes, refering to my painted toe nails. I just said, yeah, so.

Kymmie

[mariej]

"Look at the posts and what do you see? Do you see people trying to figure out how to live as transgendered people in a non-transgendered world, or do you see people trying to be deceptive? Do you see people who have been hurt and are trying to deal with it, or do you see people trying to be mean to others? Do you see people with a sense of humour or a bunch of dour angry people who know the One True Path? Do you see people trying to have a little fun and enjoy life, or do you see a bunch of hurtful people?"


Crossdressers are people, non crossdressers are people, rapists are people, serial killers are people were all people !!! Lighten up and don't be so judgmental!!!!!!!!!!!
Surely we shoudn't have to defend ourselves on this site!!!!
L&P
Mariej
xxx

[Rachel Ann]

We need it because not everyone is as strong as you, Amelie.
I might have overstated my opinion.

Seeking social acceptance is fine if that's your wish, and I encourage and congratulate you. It can only help all of us.

Not giving a damn is ok too, if that works for you. It does for me, but I would never push it on another.

Both choices take strength. Let's remember that we're all sisters in this! :)

[norbie]

:) Hi all,
I strongly believe that the day will come CD will be accepted. Please it is only MY humble few.
The way I see it, I am sure there are a lot of very studied girls on this Forum. I think to write Editors letters in Newspaper and so on, or even some article about CD and being Gay.
Please don't stone me for this remark, but the wide puplic still thinks: bloody poofters. :cry:
Sorry I am so blant, but this I believe is the very first hurdle to overcome.
So public education in this direction is a start I think..
Just my thoughts,
Love and big hugs to all,
Norbie :p

[karen marie]

education is the key to understanding.
it wasn't all that long ago that being gay or transgendered
were considered to be mental disorders.look how far we've come.
as science learns more about genetics,it will be discovered that
nature plays a large part in who we are.be patient.
hugs,karen.

[Cindy K]

So how do you gain more social acceptance?................I know this is much easier said than done, get out in to the world and show people that we are nothing to fear, I think it's our secret lifestyle that is our own worst enemy.

love mand xxx


Hi Mand

You’re right we are our own worst enemies; while ever we hide away people will wonder what we have to hide. The gay and lesbian community took the bull by the horns; it’s reached the point its no big deal to admit you are gay or lesbian. Cross-dressing is the final taboo, and that’s up to us as a community to rectify.


Cindyxx

[Julie]

It will be done at a generational level. No one in my generation is going to change their attitude towards CDing enough to matter. The kids today will raise more tolerant and worldly-educated kids and so on. Each successive generation will relax a bit more on our Victorian beginnings. TV, the Internet and music all have helped in making the necessary strides to accomplish this. But don't expect the baby boomers to wake up one morning thinking, "You know what? Crossdressing really isn't that bad at all!" :rolleyes:

[Rachel Ann]

First, the public needs to become aware of gender, how it differs from sex, and the non-TS population in the TG spectrum. It would help if DSM IV didn't say that we don't exist. :mad: Then, of course, people must come to believe it. I'm guessing that it will take another 50 years or so.



Education is the key to understanding. ... be patient.
Up to a point. There are always those who won't be educated. I don't have time to be patient, but things are still much better than they were 10 years ago.



It will be done at a generational level.
I think so. Ours was the generation that began the acceptance of lesbians and gays, an incomplete process.

[Kimberly]

I think so. Ours was the generation that began the acceptance of lesbians and gays, an incomplete process.
We will finish it... even if I have to do it single handedly ;)

[Natalie x]

Emmi,

Doubt there were too many crossdressers in Mao's China or on the Starship Enterprise - I'm thinking sneaking back to my cabin to slip into Uhuru's uniform. Oh bum, I've picked up Sulu's by mistake again!

Fiona xx

Actually, Scottie wasn't against slipping into a skirt on occasions

It's no a skirt, lassie, its a kilt!

Oh, sorry

[DonnaT]

I agree with the idea that if you want acceptance, you go out and show the folks you're not a freak or a perve, or whatever.

I would be the first (well, no, there are others that already do this so I can't be first) one out and about in skirt (no wig) if my wife would let me. You don't know (well maybe you do) how bad I wish I had that freedom, but I love my wife more.

I can't see letting what anyone (other than my wife) may think stop me from doing something not illegal that is not hurting anyone.

If you don't have anyone stopping you, other than you, then go on, get out there. Society in general will not do it for you, especially if they are unaware of our existance. And believe me, many are unaware. Just like we were unaware that there were others like us when we were growing up. And many are unaware that we are not perverts.

Only you know if you've a real concern about going out, and only you know if it your own internal fright.

As I mentioned above, there are those of us out and about everyday in thier communities. What happens is that the folks see them all the time, in good light, and it becomes more the norm. Pretty soon, hardly anyone pays attention to what they are wearing.

[eileen1969]

education would be very good for society at large! teach these people in our communities that we are special and a blessing! ;) :cool: :love: :)