I was wondering ,,,why?

[curse within]

This seems to happen here a lot...We all know that trangenders have different levels and for whatever reasons some perfer to remain in the closet as other choose to express themselves openly..

I hear comments that us closet people only remain there because we can not pass, I've seen some prove that wrong and go out daily with no makeup wig to hide who they are.

I see this us and them situation growing here daily, some of us are late into accepting and some just will never accept.. We can go on thinking life is great because we embrass the true gender we wish , but do we stop and think that crossdressing for most hasn't been so pleasent..?

Have we ever thought how our dressing might have impacted someone elses life in a negative way even though some have very accepting S.O.'s? I see some sencetivity towards those who find it hard to accept but not a lot and no I don't expect a box of tissue placed in front of me as I rant.

We sometimes try to force our good fortunes on others who do not have it as good . I see some S.O.'s who are still trying to get a grip on our actions very good hearted people who just want to help but I rarley see anyone try to comfort any ANTI S.O. who comes here to learn ( MTF section) and that's a shame.

Try a little understanding when one doesn't feel complete to have crossdressing in their life , you know there is a North and South and we all do not go in the same direction.. This isn't about any one post I am pleased with those who have found comfort and pleasure with their dressing . Maybe I shouldn't even post this but dammit how about a wake up call..

[TxKimberly]

It has always surprised me when I see the "us versus them" attitude here sometimes. You would think that if there were one group in the world that would work to understand each other, it would be us. And yet, some times there IS clear animosity here. Maybe it's the emotions involved? I dunno . . .

[Karren H]

So let me get this straight... because I love to crossdress and bacause I love to talk about crossdressing and it makes other feel that they are incomplete or unsuccessful at crossdressing, then I'm to blame for that??

Ohh come one!! If you don't want to talk about crossdressing or don't want to read about others success, if that's what you want to call it, in crossdressing then simply don't read those threads!! It's only "us vs them" in your mind... not mine!! I'm certanly not going to quit and I'm surley not going to shut up or sit on my hands. Mainly because I have a big mouth!! Lol. .

[curse within]

So let me get this straight... because I love to crossdress and bacause I love to talk about crossdressing and it makes other feel that they are incomplete or unsuccessful at it then I'm to blame for that??

Ohh come one!! If you don't want to talk about crossdressing or don't want to read about others success iif that's what you want to call it in crossdressing then simply don't rad those threads!! I'm certanly not going to quit and I'm surley not going to shut up. Mainly because I have a big mouth!! Lol. . No you missed the point and I too like to read about success that's not it at all.. I am very happy for those who eascape the walls ..What I don't get is sometimes we forget what we went through to get there . Sometime and even at a family level some decissions are not ours alone to make ..There are so many different reasons why one chooses to stay in the closet..

With seeing so many new people here we sometime forget tha path we took that lead to freedom I welcome the encouragement .. but why be so negative towards one who doesn't I see it here often..

[Karren H]

There again I don't see where I'm negative towards anyone... excepting you right now!! lol Temporarily I'm sure..... And the only person I have hurt in this journey is my wife and I deeply appologiize for that almmost every day of my life... to her.... she didn't sign up for this and I wouldn't blame her if she left me right now....

[curse within]

There again I don't see where I'm negative towards anyone... excepting you right now!! lol Temporarily I'm sure..... And the only person I have hurt in this journey is my wife and I deeply appologiize for that almmost every day of my life... to her.... she didn't sign up for this and I wouldn't blame her if she left me right now....

Please don't get me wrong ...You have a very upbeat sense of humor I mean hell If I lived near you I go have a beer with you as I am sure your a blast to be around ..Not pointing any fingers here just pointing something out ..

[Karren H]

Please don't get me wrong ...You have a very upbeat sense of humor I mean hell If I lived near you I go have a beer with you as I am sure your a blast to be around ..Not pointing any fingers here just pointing something out ..


I don't drink!! :D

[Charleen]

I hear you. I spent 30 years in the closet so I will never put anyone down if that is their decision. I understand the need. I found this site after I lost the wife and truth be told, over 3 years later I can't say if I would come out to her now, if she was still here. So who am I to give advice on that? So I don't.
We each have our own things to go through and work out and I have found this site to be mind opener for me into who I am. Yeah, there's an old saying the goes- There's one in every crowd! How true, how true. Yet again everyone is entitaled to their opinion however wacky it is.
Hang in there! It's rough enough coming to grips with who we are, never mind having an SO involved. Get comfortable with you first, then see what happens.

[Teri Jean]

Cursed, I hear what you are trying to say and yes some are fortunate to have circumstances that allow them to be who they are or want to be without reproach. But whether they have a SO that approves or not we need to be aware of their needs also.

Take them out and wine and dine them or buy them something special. Maybe a candle light dinner at home with no distractions or a warm cosy night together and give her a special moment that she has been longing for. You all know what will work for your spouse and or SO.

Remember when it's to late you cannot get it back so love honestly, wholely, without reservations and give more than you receive. It's then they will love you back ten fold.

I'm off my soap box now. Huggs and kisses to all my sisters here. Keli

[CD Susan]

I spent the first 60 years of my life in the closet so I certainly know what that is all about. I left the closet 11 months ago and it literally changed my life for the better. I certainly understand why some of us choose to stay in the closet and I would never criticise anyone for making that choice. Coming out was the right decision for me but I also understand that this is not the right decision for so many more of us. I agree that we should all try to treat each other with understanding and respect and try to avoid the criticism.

[pattipurge]

With seeing so many new people here we sometime forget the path we took that lead to freedom I welcome the encouragement .. but why be so negative towards one who doesn't I see it here often..
It's not just here. I see it on lots of cd forums. people just seem to have a natural tendency to just look at one way of doing things. the majority of cd's can't understand those cd's who seem to struggle with being a cd.
that's why there are threads like "Am I the only one who loves being a cd?"
And threads like "I'm going to quit cd-ing". we don't really understand each other any better than the general public understands us.

[docrobbysherry]

Sometimes I get so FULL OF MYSELF! Having such a good time dressing up as my fantasy woman! Then, I finish, and safely lock my closet until next time.:)

Then, I read about a Tgirl who has;

Been taking hormones for 9 years and is trying to LIVE as a woman!
Lost her job, her SO, most of her friends and family!
Has been taken advantage of by those she has allowed to get close to her.

And it makes me want to cry!:doh:

Curse, u can say what u like, but when it comes to Karen, as far as I'm concerned, she's the REAL DEAL!
She doesn't appologise, or cares to explain, or takes crap from anyone!:Angry3:

If ONLY ALL CDs and TG/TSs could have her strength!:hugs:

[curse within]

Sometimes I get so FULL OF MYSELF! Having such a good time dressing up as my fantasy woman! Then, I finish, and safely lock my closet until next time.:)

Then, I read about a Tgirl who has;

Been taking hormones for 9 years and is trying to LIVE as a woman!
Lost her job, her SO, most of her friends and family!
Has been taken advantage of by those she has allowed to get close to her.

And it makes me want to cry!:doh:

Curse, u can say what u like, but when it comes to Karen, as far as I'm concerned, she's the REAL DEAL!
She doesn't appologise, or cares to explain, or takes crap from anyone!:Angry3:

If ONLY ALL CDs and TG/TSs could have her strength!:hugs:
Sherry the only thing I can say about Karren would be just as you quoted..

[Karren H]

And I don't do drugs either!! Lol. Gave them up for lent.. Wait... I'm a hethen.. I forgot..

But what I am is really tired and sad... because I'm staying up... Taking care of our 15 year old Dalmation who's dying... And were having her put to sleep tommorow... :(:(:(

Actually I did appologize to someone today!! Cause I screwed up and infracted a new member who I thought was spamming and she had just signed up as an advertiser!! Oh crap!! So I made it right and appologized for my ignorance...

[Lisa Golightly]

We all choose our path... That's the wonder of life, and if there is a 'them and us' belief then it is of your own creation and that of those you associate with. I associate both with those who swim against the tide publicly and those who live in total secrecy... First and formost they are individuals and I personally judge neither.

I may attempt to help someone on an individual basis overcome their fear, but that's because I know them as an individual and can see that being in limbo between secrecy and openess is hurting them far too much. Which ever way they finally decide to spring, toward the light or darkness, that's their choice.

I've been to a lot of places plagued by a sense of hierachy and aristocracy, but in reality it's only like that because individuals allow themselves to feel that way...

No-one has it easy, and no-one leads a perfect fault free life... I've got a customer who's been using my male name for so long during transition that now he's finally using Lisa it sounds totally alien to me...

And yeah somedays I'll be somewhere and a wave of insecurity will crash over me... and I'll stand there in abject fear at who and what I am, but I'll force myself to stop being stupid and just get on with it...

All any of us can do is get on with it... That makes me neither a 'them' or an 'us'... Just makes me like every other peep on the planet with their insecurites, faults, joys and heartaches.

As a transsexual it is difficult to describe just how much damage you bring into the lives of those you love... Families may divide, friends may leave, best friends may make you cry with their verbal tirades of how you are destroying your life... I've experienced them all, but I only talk about it to those I'm close to (they know who they are) because they know exactly what's going on in my life.

I never really know what to say to people I don't know... especially when they're ill or breaking up with someone... Everything I can type sounds cliched and empty... utterly vacuous... and that's the thing about love... If you're outside the loop you have no idea about it... the true 'them' and 'us'.

Lisa x

[Vicky_Scot]

It has always surprised me when I see the "us versus them" attitude here sometimes. You would think that if there were one group in the world that would work to understand each other, it would be us. And yet, some times there IS clear animosity here. Maybe it's the emotions involved? I dunno . . .

You certainly would think that would be the case. But you forget to remember that, yes we all have one thing in common that we are all TG but we are all individuals with our individual faults.

Forums about any subject will bring about our individual faults and views and opinions wither good or bad.

Hope I made sense..........:battingeyelashes:

Xx Vicky xX

[Shikyo]

Just like with any other people in the world each of us is unique and his/her needs to fulfill. Some of have the courage to speak out loud and be what they truly are, some of us just stay in the closet until they have collected enough courage if they ever get there. It's not about passing or fulfilling your dreams. All you need to do is to accept what you are, which can be very hard, I admit that. It can take time, lots if it to be honest. As long as one can in the end accept what they are everything is going to be fine.

Of course there will be problems with ones wife and relatives, but that is just a step that we have to get over with. We are not the only kinds of people in the world that are having a tough time with doing what we want. Just look around or back in the history of the humankind. Not everyone has had a nice perfect life, in fact I seriously doubt that even one person with a prefect life exist. The problems we will have in our lives are meant to be solved which is totally possible. It might be hard to admit what one is, but you have to realize how much it will change your life. The question we should really ask ourselves is not if there is something wrong with us because we like to crossdress or live as a person of the opposite sex, but more so what can we do to fulfill our needs.

It might be a big shock at first for anyone who you are going to tell about it, but in the end if that person really cares about you, they ain't going to let you hang down. If they really let you hang down, just think about this: Are they really worth the trouble? If someone does not want to accept what I am, it's definitely not my problem, but theirs. They either learn to accept me the way I am or they simply ignore me and live their lives along just like I do with mines.

There are situations where this just is not possible, to tell and come out. Like with a wife/husband whose totally against it, but you truly love each other. Even then the truth is that you would be hiding your true self. Be what you are, don't let others take away your pleasure unless you really got no chance to live the way you want.

Passing or not to pass is not really relevant at all. It's all about you and your feelings, not about the anonymous bystander that you pass on your way to the store. It's their problem if they can't stand seeing you dressed the way you want to dress, you are not responsible to keep everyone happy. Just think about it, are they doing anything for you to keep you happy? Does not seem so, if one has to hide in the closet of the fear of being abandoned by the society.

Sorry for the long text and I hope I did not wonder too far off from the topic.

[curse within]

And I don't do drugs either!! Lol. Gave them up for lent.. Wait... I'm a hethen.. I forgot..

But what I am is really tired and sad... because I'm staying up... Taking care of our 15 year old Dalmation who's dying... And were having her put to sleep tommorow... :(:(:(

Actually I did appologize to someone today!! Cause I screwed up and infracted a new member who I thought was spamming and she had just signed up as an advertiser!! Oh crap!! So I made it right and appologized for my ignorance...


Karren I am sorry to hear about the loseing your puppy (dog) Mine is my best friend don't know what I would do or handle it when it's his time to leave.

[allisonrn06]

While I do envy those of you here who are out, I hold no resentment against you, in fact some of my favorite posts to read are of those of you who venture out of the closet! And being in the closet, I can empathize with those who are like me, too! :hugs:

[pattipurge]

Passing or not to pass is not really relevant at all.
well that's a whole different can of worms, but it really is relevant. in some areas if you don't pass in public, you might take a chance on getting beat to crap.

[Carly D.]

I can pass in a dark area or from a far away situation.. I would love to just throw on a skirt heels and hose and just wear what I want because I don't have all the makeup in the world.. and besides all the makeup in the world would just likely make me look like a guy trying to look reasonably like a girl.. so I would rather just wear a few things most of the time and when the mood hits me, I'd like to be able to pass once in a while... dare to dream..

[Shikyo]

well that's a whole different can of worms, but it really is relevant. in some areas if you don't pass in public, you might take a chance on getting beat to crap.

I'm aware of that, but the point is that even that is not something general as there are areas where it just simply said doesn't matter at all. So one would have to know the area they are living in, if something dangerous can happen because of what you do. But I honestly don't think there are that many places where anything would happen, especially if one walks on day time in places where there are lots of people.

Truth is that you can get into trouble because you can't pass, but it does not mean that you can't do it anywhere at all. It's totally different depending of the location you are in. And the location has in the end nothing to do with passing or not passing, right?

[Karen564]

We sometimes try to force our good fortunes on others who do not have it as good . I see some S.O.'s who are still trying to get a grip on our actions very good hearted people who just want to help but I rarley see anyone try to comfort any ANTI S.O. who comes here to learn ( MTF section) and that's a shame.

Try a little understanding when one doesn't feel complete to have crossdressing in their life , you know there is a North and South and we all do not go in the same direction.. This isn't about any one post I am pleased with those who have found comfort and pleasure with their dressing . Maybe I shouldn't even post this but dammit how about a wake up call..

I think everyone is misunderstanding the point of what Curse is trying to say,
Either that, I'm the one misreading it...

I didn't see this as whether one can pass or not pass, nor a TS vs. TG/CD., or being in or out of the closet..

I thought what the point was, Why are some people so negative towards an SO or family member who is not so accepting of their TS or TG/CD lifestyle in here, like we get the US vs. Them kind of mentality, being that many dont seem to show any compassion towards a person that cant accept and feel like, well I'm right, why cant you see that, and your wrong for not seeing it my way...
In other words, why is there so much narcissism on this site...

I'm not saying everyone is a narcissist, but I do see many that are..


So, Am I missing the point & way off base here??? Feel free to blast me if you want too.. :straightface:

[mandy 44]

I think everyone is misunderstanding the point of what Curse is trying to say,
Either that, I'm the one misreading it...

I didn't see this as whether one can pass or not pass, nor a TS vs. TG/CD., or being in or out of the closet..

I thought what the point was, Why are some people so negative towards an SO or family member who is not so accepting of their TS or TG/CD lifestyle in here, like we get the US vs. Them kind of mentality, being that many dont seem to show any compassion towards a person that cant accept and feel like, well I'm right, why cant you see that, and your wrong for not seeing it my way...
In other words, why is there so much narcissism on this site...

I'm not saying everyone is a narcissist, but I do see many that are..


So, Am I missing the point & way off base here??? Feel free to blast me if you want too.. :straightface:
don`t understand wot she`s on about don`t really care im happy being me and thats the important thing always be happy being yourself it dosn`t matter wot anyone else thinks .anyway how are you im mandy :battingeyelashes:

[Alice Torn]

Karren, I feel with you, the pain of losing your Dalmation, of 15 yrs. I lost two dear old cats i'd had 131/2 yrs, then another, dear one, to coyotes, within a year. It was hell. As a kid, i had a neighbor, with a dalmation, who would always chase cars, and bicycles, and try to bite. We called it, the Damnation!

[2b.Lauren]

I just like and appreciate the fact that I can come into the site and read posts from both ends of the perspective. I have no hard feelings for those that can get out, and since I am a part of the closet group I also have no issues here either.

I am who I am and do so not because I want to remain in the closet I might like to go out and see the sun. I do so because it is my boundary with my SO. Her boundary is not to go out and I respect that.

I think it is great to be able to hear both sides of the coin, and it is great to be able to read both. I don't look at the us verses them perspective, because everyone has their own eye when they read and respond to a thread. I might not agree, but who I am to judge that. I don't offend to very easily.

[Bev06 GG]

You certainly would think that would be the case. But you forget to remember that, yes we all have one thing in common that we are all TG but we are all individuals with our individual faults.

Forums about any subject will bring about our individual faults and views and opinions wither good or bad.

Hope I made sense..........:battingeyelashes:

Xx Vicky xX

Makes perfect sense to me. I have had my ups and my downs on this forum and no doubt upset a few people along the way. Thing is this is kind of like a second family to me, you have all been here when I've needed you. I guess if I can't be myself with all of you then who can I be honest and open with.
You said Vicky that we are all TG, well not quite honey theres a few of us who aren't. However, we still have something in common and we are all here for the same reason, to support and be supported. There is nothing wrong with good healthy debate just so long as if you end up in blowing your top you apologize afterward if you have inadvertantly hurt someone.
I thought this was a very thought provoking post from a very sensitive individual who has taken the time to look over the other side of the fence.
Take care
Bev

[Sheila]

But you forget to remember that, yes we all have one thing in common that we are all TG but we are all individuals with our individual faults.Xx Vicky xX


ERMMMMMMMMM no we ain't all TG, I am A genetic female, content with that, my sister isame here to support Debs initially and has since persuaded another CDER who she met on another site to sign up here, other family members also come her to support their relatives, kids supporting dads/mums, borethers supporting sisters etc

[curse within]

I think everyone is misunderstanding the point of what Curse is trying to say,
Either that, I'm the one misreading it...

I didn't see this as whether one can pass or not pass, nor a TS vs. TG/CD., or being in or out of the closet..

I thought what the point was, Why are some people so negative towards an SO or family member who is not so accepting of their TS or TG/CD lifestyle in here, like we get the US vs. Them kind of mentality, being that many dont seem to show any compassion towards a person that cant accept and feel like, well I'm right, why cant you see that, and your wrong for not seeing it my way...
In other words, why is there so much narcissism on this site...

I'm not saying everyone is a narcissist, but I do see many that are..


So, Am I missing the point & way off base here??? Feel free to blast me if you want too.. :straightface:

Karen,

Thank you and it is, just as Shelia mentioned we do have S.O.'s ,family members and friends that come here . Hell some are afraid to even post not to mention those who sit on the side lines (non members) that read these post.

Those who may have first dicovered their S.O. is a crossdresser and is trying to research or understand it better through this site ..The new members who have just found this site and are in search of answers, those who may still be hideing it from their S.O.'s after years of marriage ..

I am in no way trying to police this site not at all ,that's not my intent, what gets said or us verses them doesn't bother me at all personally. I am not pointing fingers in anyones direction. I am , as one poster said " looking over the fence " as if I was a new member or a S.O.

This site is open for all to see and everything here said equals a representation of our lifestyle as a whole for those who do not understand us and are trying. Like my wife once told me..My problem not hers!!

It was just a wake up call that's all..

[Karen564]

Karen,

Thank you and it is, just as Shelia mentioned we do have S.O.'s ,family members and friends that come here . Hell some are afraid to even post not to mention those who sit on the side lines (non members) that read these post.

Those who may have first dicovered their S.O. is a crossdresser and is trying to research or understand it better through this site ..The new members who have just found this site and are in search of answers, those who may still be hideing it from their S.O.'s after years of marriage ..

I am in no way trying to police this site not at all ,that's not my intent, what gets said or us verses them doesn't bother me at all personally. I am not pointing fingers in anyones direction. I am , as one poster said " looking over the fence " as if I was a new member or a S.O.

This site is open for all to see and everything here said equals a representation of our lifestyle as a whole for those who do not understand us and are trying. Like my wife once told me..My problem not hers!!

It was just a wake up call that's all..

No Problem, It wouldn't be the 1st time I was way off base..and probably wont be the last..... So I'm very sorry about that..:sad:

[curse within]

No Problem, It wouldn't be the 1st time I was way off base..and probably wont be the last..... So I'm very sorry about that..:sad: No you were right on base.. Sorry I just ain't clear sometimes .. I just wanted to express something no offence to anyone and it's not a TS VS CD thing at all just sometimes we get comfortable with ourselves we forget what stuggles or issues we and others had from the beggining and others are still faceing those same issues..

Thanks

[Karen564]

No you were right on base.. Sorry I just ain't clear sometimes .. I just wanted to express something no offence to anyone and it's not a TS VS CD thing at all just sometimes we get comfortable with ourselves we forget what stuggles or issues we and others had from the beggining and others are still faceing those same issues..

Thanks

OK, See what I mean, I CAN misunderstand someone very easily...LOL

But I feel much better now, I thought I was going nuts..:)

[Vicky_Scot]

Makes perfect sense to me. I have had my ups and my downs on this forum and no doubt upset a few people along the way. Thing is this is kind of like a second family to me, you have all been here when I've needed you. I guess if I can't be myself with all of you then who can I be honest and open with.
You said Vicky that we are all TG, well not quite honey theres a few of us who aren't. However, we still have something in common and we are all here for the same reason, to support and be supported. There is nothing wrong with good healthy debate just so long as if you end up in blowing your top you apologize afterward if you have inadvertantly hurt someone.
I thought this was a very thought provoking post from a very sensitive individual who has taken the time to look over the other side of the fence.
Take care
Bev


ERMMMMMMMMM no we ain't all TG, I am A genetic female, content with that, my sister isame here to support Debs initially and has since persuaded another CDER who she met on another site to sign up here, other family members also come her to support their relatives, kids supporting dads/mums, borethers supporting sisters etc


My apologies ladies but my reply was directed at TxKimberly post who was discussing our group which is TG. The initial post by Curse was directed towards the TG community also.

GG girls are always welcome and it is always nice to hear your views and opinions and you are special ladies but at times the discussion is about Transgender issues that you can not really relate to as I would not be able to relate to some GG issues.

Sheila you seem to have taken it as a bit of a personnel attack on you which is not the case.

Xx Vicky xX

[Carly D.]

When I dress up and went out the other day I thought "everyone will know who I am easily".. but then I have to realize that I am the only one who has seen me wearing these clothes as much as I have.. and one other thing about cross dressing, I think we get looked at because women, in general, don't dress up that much anymore.. I saw a woman dressed up and really looking nice and I kept looking at her.. she might or might not have been the best looking (face wise) but I didn't notice her face, I kept looking at her dress and pantyhose legs and heels.. so what I am saying is that if I saw me walking into a store I might look at me and gawk at the legs and shoes, my favorite thing to look at on a woman dressed up.. and maybe that would disappoint some men to realize that you are in fact looking at a guy in drag but for me, thems the breaks.. and my confession: I try to look female when out in public (wow the one time, I'm such a pro now) but I am just wearing what I would like to wear, I am comfortable wearing a skirt and heels and hose.. it is extremely personal to me to wear these clothes.. I wouldn't wish this feeling on anyone.. it's like a personal hell.. that's ok.. I'll take it..

[karren]

Dear Karren, I'am so sorry to hear about your Dalmation, having been there myself I know a little about what you are going thru.
Karren