Am I out?

[Michelia]

Last night I went out with my little boy to his favorite pizza place. I was totally enfemme and looked my very best. We have developed this system where he scopes out the place before we walk in. But last night he said he did not want to do it. I warned him this was not my preferred way of doing this. We have been there several times and never encountered anyone we knew before.

So we just walked right in and there was one of the teachers at his school sitting right there with some guy. There was some minor mutual acknowledgement. Later she went to the bathroom and stopped by our table on the way. She asked how we were doing but the dressing subject was never discussed. I just acted like nothing was happening. So did my son. On the way out she stared quite a bit according to my son. She was behind me.

I do not know how much the news will travel. I am a little worried. But my little companion is so steady. I am amazed and very proud of him. He says I am making a big deal about it. He says no one will ever mention it to us, and if they do, he will just say it is none of their business and that besides whatever his daddy does is his daddy's problem and that he loves going out with his daddy anyway his is dressed.

I am thinking he may be right. I can't believe I am not terribly worried about this. We'll see...

[Angie G]

You have one great son there Micheila.:hugs:
Angie

[Teri Jean]

Your biggest ali is your son and the teacher was probably trying to see if he was uncomfortable under the circumstances. Since he was not there probably nothing to worry about.

Keli

[pattipurge]

I was totally enfemme and looked my very best.
pants or dress/skirt? this may determine whether you hear anything or not.

[DonnaT]

Cool!
I can't believe I am not terribly worried about this. We'll see...
Maybe his ease with it is rubbing off on you?

[Ralph]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think you're doing a terrible disservice to your son. Children are under intense pressure, and you're adding to it by making him carry the burden of not only carrying around your secret, but protecting you. The parent should be protecting the child, not the other way around! If you're not willing to take responsibility for how well your secret is kept, shame on you for making him pick up your slack. That kind of burden can have him in therapy decades from now.

Don't go out dressed if you don't want people you know to see you, it's as simple as that.

ralph

[Presh GG]

The teacher's # 1 concern is the child .
Since your beautiful boy was totally ok, that's all she / he cares about.
What a great kid !
springtime gg

[DonnaT]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think you're doing a terrible disservice to your son. Children are under intense pressure, and you're adding to it by making him carry the burden of not only carrying around your secret, but protecting you.

Maybe, but Michelia's son has elected to not to carry the burden anymore, and shown great maturity in how he's handled it.

Sometimes not overprotecting the child is the correct way to go.

[Sally2005]

Unless the teacher knows you well she might have only recognized her student and was trying to figure out who you were... Your son could just tell her you were his aunt or something. You will know on the next parent teacher interview if she seems uneasy or asks you about it. You could test the water by telling her that he was excited to see her at the pzza place...she will probably say something like you were dressed different. But unless you are really out to the world maybe just keep quiet.

[Samantha Kelsey]

I don't think you're out, I think you're found out.
I totally agree with Ralph above. Shame on you.

[Sammy777]

Sounds like no harm no foul so far.
I wouldn't worry to much about it until/if someone brings it up. Just be prepared with an answer for them and make it something more then "his aunt".
You and him know what is going on and if your going out you will be found out, so I think your best bet is to just tell the teacher or anybody else that asks the truth, it would be in your best interest.
Lying at all about it will always make it look like you are trying to hide something. Or worse yet, that you really do have something, possibly something else besides the dressing to hide.

PS: To those of you ready to blame Michelia for "burdening" her son with this should really read her other posts about her and her son's relationship and their outings before pointing a finger at her.
She never forced her son kicking and screaming to be seen with her while dressed and her son seems to be more OK with it then you give him credit for.

[Annie D]

I agree with Sally, in as much as she may have been trying to figure out who you were. Thinking along those lines, you may want to ask your son what his reply to his teacher might be if she asks. Are you comfortable with him responding that it was his dad? If that is the case, then the answer to your post is; yes, you are out!

A teacher is bound by law to report any type of suspected abuse or anything that could violate the safety of a child. We all know that crossdressing is not abusive but it is possible for her to think that within our society that you are subjecting you child to a form of pornography. You did not say how old your son is but by your picture, you look young and therefore my thought is that he may be elementary school age. You may get a visit from Child Protective Services and your son may be called into the counselor's office for some questioning. You might want to discuss these possibilities with your son and prepare him for something that could possibly take place so that he won't be taken by surprise. From your post, I think that you have a healthy relationship with your son and he has a very mature understanding of what crossdressing is all about.

As a teacher, I think that our group is fairly conservative. The younger teachers who are coming into the profession are naturally more liberal and tolerant. The age of the teacher in question may be the factor in determining if you and/or he is questioned. If one of the young ones, she may go to her principal and ask for advice. Teachers hate to make decisions on their own, they always want several opionions even if deciding whether to use "wide line or collegiate" notebook paper. I am not condemming my profession, just trying to let you know what her mindset might be.

I think that everything will turn out okay, but just be prepared. Good luck!

[Ralph]

She never forced her son kicking and screaming to be seen with her while dressed and her son seems to be more OK with it then you give him credit for.

That's not the point, Samantha. I never suggested she forced him against his will to do this. Unless you have a particularly bad relationship with your child, the kid will do just about anything you ask, however harmful, because he or she places so much trust in you and wants to please you.

That doesn't make it right to make such a request, nor does it diminish the psychological impact of the pressure to make sure dad doesn't get caught. I stand by what I said: We each bear our own responsibility for how much we are out to the world and how much we wish to hide.

ralph

[RobCD]

my biggest fear with this situation is if the teacher thinks crossdressing is evil or immoral or something she might try to talk to social services or something.

I dont think they can actually do anything as long as your son is ok, but there is a chance others will hear about it.

[Jessica Who]

That's not the point, Samantha. I never suggested she forced him against his will to do this. Unless you have a particularly bad relationship with your child, the kid will do just about anything you ask, however harmful, because he or she places so much trust in you and wants to please you.

That doesn't make it right to make such a request, nor does it diminish the psychological impact of the pressure to make sure dad doesn't get caught. I stand by what I said: We each bear our own responsibility for how much we are out to the world and how much we wish to hide.

ralph

Excellent posts, I completely agree with you.

[KimberlyJo]

I'm not going to speak to your relationship with your son, honestly, that's your business and we all put things on our children, we can't help it (CDer's or otherwise).

However, I WOULD be expecting repercussions from this incident at the pizza place with the teacher. There is no way to know if the teacher recognized you. Since she stopped by your table, the social interaction between you and her would speak volumes. Did you pretend like you didn't know who she was, like you were meeting a stranger, did she introduce herself at all?

My point is that lying about who your son was with that night may not be the best course of action, but it's a sticky situation all around. I'm sorry you find yourself in it. But if you're going to put yourself out there (especially with your son in tow) then something like this was bound to happen. If you decide to lie, then that is going to force your son into a situation where he has to lie for you as well, and that's no place he should be.

Did he ever explain to you why he didn't want to scope the place out for you? Not that someone you knew couldn't come in while you were already there.

[ReineD]

I will not judge you, but I would like to share a personal experience. Over 8 years ago a family secret also came out at my then 7 year old son's school. Suffice it to say that the issue carries with it as much taboo (or perhaps less) as CDing. As many people at the school knew about it, as were willing to gossip about it. A few children made remarks to my son and although the teachers were very sympathetic, he carried the shame with him for many years.

He also told me it was OK and I shouldn't worry about it. He wanted to spare my feelings. When a child becomes a parent's caretaker, it is an indication the situation is not healthy for the child.

As much as we would like society to be more enlightened, unfortunately it isn't right now and it would take one tough little boy (or girl) to weather this. You know your son best, but I would suggest taking him to a child's counselor just to make sure that he is dealing not only with the CDing, but the inevitable comments he will receive in a healthy way. I would also make an appointment to see the teacher who saw you ASAP and diffuse the situation with her.

As to getting your son to scope out the place beforehand, you are teaching him that there is shame involved in the CDing. I applaud him for refusing to do this anymore.

[Miranda09]

This is a very complicated and sensitive issue. I think everyone here has made some valid and important points/suggestions.

[trannie T]

I am disturbed by many of the posts in this thread. The child was OK with the whole thing and has no problems in being out with a crossdressing father. The posts treat crossdressing as if ir were a crime and should be hidden from the child. Bull!

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

[Karen564]

I am disturbed by many of the posts in this thread. The child was OK with the whole thing and has no problems in being out with a crossdressing father. The posts treat crossdressing as if ir were a crime and should be hidden from the child. Bull!

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

You missed the whole point of what they said then..

I hope you dont have children then with the attitude your displaying here..


And know one ever said CDing is a crime..

[trannie T]

Many of these posts are treating crossdressing as a crime, or at least something our children should be protected from. The post above expresses the thought that because of my opinions I must be an unfit parent, how silly.
with the self loathing expressed in some of the posts here it makes one believe that we shall never be accepted by society. If we are unable to accept ourselves, how can we expect others to accept us?
I repeat:
There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

[KimberlyJo]

Many of these posts are treating crossdressing as a crime, or at least something our children should be protected from. The post above expresses the thought that because of my opinions I must be an unfit parent, how silly.
with the self loathing expressed in some of the posts here it makes one believe that we shall never be accepted by society. If we are unable to accept ourselves, how can we expect others to accept us?
I repeat:
There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

It's not the CDing that we're talking about so much, but societies reactions to it. You can say there's nothing wrong with it and I agree, but we're in the minority opinion in most parts of the world.

I'm all for educating the public and bringing up tolerant and accepting children, but there's still the very real reaction of the public and the system which does not likely have the appropriate understanding. It is possible that the system where she lives will be accepting, but in the likelihood that it won't, she should be prepared. That's all I (and I think most others) was saying.

[gabe]

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

I will second the opinion that there is nothing wrong with crossdressing.

A lot of schools have GLBT club and counselors to help students cope with identity and family issues. Many students have openly gay parents or are openly gay themselves. I know of instances where students cross dress on spirit days. I do not think it is as much a taboo as it used to be, the acceptance level for different life styles has improved over the years, it certainly still has a long way to go yet. However, there will always be insensitive people at school that will pick on children who are different. We just have to accept that not everyone is perfect.

[Karen564]

Many of these posts are treating crossdressing as a crime, or at least something our children should be protected from. The post above expresses the thought that because of my opinions I must be an unfit parent, how silly.
with the self loathing expressed in some of the posts here it makes one believe that we shall never be accepted by society. If we are unable to accept ourselves, how can we expect others to accept us?
I repeat:
There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

I'll keep this very simple for you...

You dont need to involve your children to push your agenda about cross-dressing....you have your life, they have theirs, what you do as an adult involving them in your CDing can bring consequences to your child by their peers affecting their life ..
Your all grown up now & out of school, so that is past you now, but a young child has a long way to go yet...

Is that really so hard to understand??

I say do that by yourself, go to work dressed, live it 24/7 if you need to make a point, but leave the little kids out of it....

[trannie T]

It is becomming apparent we have a basic disagreement. Crossdressing is not evil, it is not something to be ashamed of. The parent is out as a crossdresser, the child is out as the son of a crossdresser. The child apparently is comfortable with the situation and is more accepting than some members of our community.

[Carroll]

Let me get this straight; We all would like to be accepted as part of society, but at the same time we bad-mouth someone that has taught their child tolerance and acceptance. Kind of conflicting, ain't it? Think about it. this child could be the "choosen one" that will grow up and change the world.

[ReineD]

The child apparently is comfortable with the situation

But how do you know this based on a few paragraphs written in a post? Because society has, at best, mixed feelings about CDing, the child may sense disapprobation from others even though he accepts it privately. This might cause internal conflict in even the most confident children. If Michelia is TS or plans on living femme 24/7 then I agree she needs to decide to out herself and hold her head high. No shame. No hiding. No scoping out places ahead of time. But if Michelia goes out with her son in both femme and guy mode and she is not ready to out herself, then why would she expose her son to the inevitable discomfort over possibly being "outed" as is referenced in the title of this thread?

It might be a good idea to ask the child directly how he feels about the episode and give him a few options, which may change over time as he matures. Does he feel comfortable going out with daddy dressed, or does he prefer going out with dad in guy mode? As I mentioned in my previous post, some children are reluctant to tell their parents the truth for fear of hurting their feelings, and it may be a good idea to have the child speak with an impartial third party about this. I am sure Michelia wants what is best for her child over her own comfort.
:hugs:

[Celeste]

I think what occurred should be treated as a wake up call in being considerate of your sons feelings.I'm not saying the two of you being there together was wrong,just wondering if he's being accepting of your dressing so as not to make you feel out of place or awkward.I'm sure he wouldn't want to hear the flak about it at school ,should it get out.Maybe you should rethink exactly where and what you will do together when
you are dressed until he's 18.

He sounds like a special and caring son,I'm just worried he may be trying not to hurt your feelings.I do know that he shouldn't have to put up with negative reactions due to something you believe in.

[kathrynjanos]

How old is he?

I'm gonna sound like a dick here, so here's your not-so-apology in advance, but it's just my honest opinion. It's not my place to tell you how to raise your kid, and I'm going ONLY on what was said in your OP, so if there's elaboration later, assume the appropriate corrections. Opinions follow.

I don't think it's your son's role to cover for you. You say "little boy," and being in school, I presume he's over five, but I'd guess under 9, unless that's just a pet name for him. I think that it really does place him in a precarious social position for exactly the reasons stated in your post, that you want to know if anyone you know is in a given place before you enter.

Of course, when this fails, the results are as seen above. It sounds like she did in fact recognize you. Hopefully you just have to hope that she has either an open mind, or a closed mouth, and DEFINITELY not the reverse. Teachers are supposed to be the adult, but I've had more than one who is ready, willing, and able to stoop to the kid's level any day of the week. If this gets out, it could put him in a negative social situation easily.

READ ME CAREFULLY: I am proud of you that you go out. I wish I had your guts. I just think it's dangerous to make him your associate in this. Kids get beaten up for a lot less in school, and lord knows, these idiots have no compunction about bringing in something more dangerous than their hands these days. You never know, the teacher may not have recognized you at all without him there, so why add fuel to the fire?



I am disturbed by many of the posts in this thread. The child was OK with the whole thing and has no problems in being out with a crossdressing father. The posts treat crossdressing as if ir were a crime and should be hidden from the child. Bull!

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

Trannie T, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you really have no idea what you're talking about. Karen is right, you're missing the fundamental point of the arguments of the above. It is IRRELEVANT whether or not CD'ing is immoral. I certainly don't believe it is. It's not even relevant what other people think of it in this case, because our real point here is what the child risks. I actually didn't want to get into the emotional/psychological ramifications of it, aside from the potential harm it could inflict upon him via others funding out, but now that it's been breached, I feel it necessary to go over it with you, for your sake and any future children you'll interact with.

If you feel that your children, or any for which you are responsible and authorized to make such decisions on behalf of, are ready and capable of processing what crossdressing means, there is nothing wrong with telling them, or even showing them, and then helping them to understand it all. That being said, you have no right to ask a child to bear that knowledge and responsibility, particularly when it is "secret" to the rest of the world, then ask them to actively participate in your coverup. As Karen said, it is flagrantly irresponsible on your behalf, and could well do psychological harm to the child once they realize what they were doing, and they begin to be capable of rationalizing that with honesty, nevermind the conflicts of "If it's OK, then why do we have to hide it?"

All I can hope for is that this kid's teacher a) doesn't try to literally make a case out of it, and b) has the brain cells necessary not to reveal this to her entire school. You'd be hard pressed to find a way to even take action against the teacher for making it public, and in certain areas of our country, it would be all to easy for her to make this into a CPS issue. That's what I'm worried about!

[ReineD]

I think that it really does place him in a precarious social position for exactly the reasons stated in your post, that you want to know if anyone you know is in a given place before you enter.

Of course, when this fails, the results are as seen above.

Also, when and if it should fail ... will your son feel responsible for failing to recognize someone who was there but he did not notice? This is not a good thing to put on a little boy's shoulders. As I said earlier, I do not judge you. I also admire you for your courage in expressing yourself publicly. But I question the wisdom in doing this with your son before you are ready to be fully out to the community, especially in his own back yard. You did ask and sometimes being as close to the situation as you are, it is difficult to see it objectively.

[Carin]

To answer OP question:
Yes, you are out. Not because of anything the teacher might say or do, but because you were OUT at a local pizza parlor. But you already knew that.

Your question really relates to the process of exposing ourselves as transgendered people to the community. We do this one step at a time, and there is no easy bullet-proof way. We start with our immediate family, and the OP had already done that. I suspect (assumption) that the game of having the child scope out the place is more about evaluating the child's sense of comfort, rather than protecting the dad. The dad was already quite comfortable being out on his own. In my process, I gave my kids the choice of whether they wanted to come out with me when I first started going out in the local community. This is a slightly different spin on the same thing. My read on the child not wanting to do it any more is that he was ready to move past that. I asked my youngest son what footwear I should wear out to the grocery store, he was going out with me: my regular shoes or a pair of red boots with a nice heel. He picked the boots. There was no protectiveness of me on his part about it. There was no emotional burden.

There is not enough information in the original post to conclude any emotional impact on the child. Assumptions are required either way

The range of attitudes in this post is interesting. How deeply our fear is ingrained that we talk of Child Protective services, the psychological impact to the child, leave the kids out of it, it is an adult thing... etc. Caution is appropriate, but acting out of fear is perpetuating the fear. Being transgendered and out will not become normalized until we normalize it ourselves.

I recently attended a parent teacher meeting with my sons teacher. I spoke to her about being transgendered, and being open about it, so that she could be attentive to any flack that might come his way. She complimented me on being open and true to myself.

Life is not a bed of roses. Our task as parents it to prepare our children for the world, to teach them in a loving, compassionate and responsible way how to think for their selves. Done right, they really enjoy it too. So many protect their children from the world when they are young, only to wonder why their young adults don't know how to deal with life.

Being transgendered is not something we believe in. It is something we are. It is a family affair. "Protecting" our children from our impact on the world - until they are 18, implies we are doing something wrong. It denies them the opportunity do decide for their self how they feel about it. We are so afraid to let children think for their sleves.

I would recommend that the OP close the loop with the teacher. How to do that is another topic, not for this thread.

[kathrynjanos]

Your question really relates to the process of exposing ourselves as transgendered people to the community. We do this one step at a time, and there is no easy bullet-proof way. We start with our immediate family, and the OP had already done that. I suspect (assumption) that the game of having the child scope out the place is more about evaluating the child's sense of comfort, rather than protecting the dad. The dad was already quite comfortable being out on his own. In my process, I gave my kids the choice of whether they wanted to come out with me when I first started going out in the local community. This is a slightly different spin on the same thing. My read on the child not wanting to do it any more is that he was ready to move past that. I asked my youngest son what footwear I should wear out to the grocery store, he was going out with me: my regular shoes or a pair of red boots with a nice heel. He picked the boots. There was no protectiveness of me on his part about it. There was no emotional burden.

Carin, thoughtful post, and well written, but I'm going to argue that you're also missing the point here, though a little less blindly/dogmatically than some others.

From the post, it does NOT seem to me that the child is being protected. As she stated, it was to see if there was anyone who knew them was in there. She is obviously NOT really out to the community, at least not prior to this, otherwise who cares who sees them out and about?

I'm not saying OP forced her son to come with her, or that the kid objected to doing it, well, prior to this.

Because you raised your children to understand what crossdressing is, and left them a choice in how they choose to associate with you on it, and placed none of the responsibility on them, I think you did an admirable job with the subject, and I think I'd like to borrow on some of those techniques when I have children. But that doesn't mean that the OP did the same.

[Ralph]

I am disturbed by many of the posts in this thread. The child was OK with the whole thing and has no problems in being out with a crossdressing father. The posts treat crossdressing as if ir were a crime and should be hidden from the child. Bull!
and

It is becomming apparent we have a basic disagreement. Crossdressing is not evil, it is not something to be ashamed of. The parent is out as a crossdresser, the child is out as the son of a crossdresser. The child apparently is comfortable with the situation and is more accepting than some members of our community!
I don't know whose posts you read that treated crossdressing as a crime or evil or whatever; perhaps you're reading another thread? Certainly nobody said any such thing in this thread.

The OP is *not* "out"; the whole point of this thread is to discuss the fact that he did not want to be seen by anybody the family knows. Nobody suggested hiding or protecting the child from the CDing. The criticism here is to making the child protect the parent from discovery. That is ALL anyone has a problem with. Do you have an objection to that specific point?

ralph, wishing people would actually read the messages they are objecting to

[Michelia]

Thanks for all the replies, even the negative ones. We all learn from each other here. That said, I am not really surprised at some of the negative reactions as I have heard most of it before. There have been some observations I will take with me.

TrannieT is right in that apparently some of you have not read any of my previous posts. I made the decision to tell my kids along with my wife and my ex. This came as a result of two things. First, I did not want to spend any time hiding or avoiding my kids, considering my limited time with them. Second, we have a pretty open household where lying is not looked upon favorably. My wife and I saw no reason to lie to the kids about my Cding. I did not feel I was doing anything wrong. But lying would have been. And if they ever found out, I would have done them a great disservice.

My CDing is just part of life around our house. We spend all our time together because daddy never hides when dressed. Yet, I have never forced either of my children to go anywhere with me dressed. On the contrary, I was always mindful of not imposing CD-related activity on them, including shopping in boy mode. Actually, in a strange turn of events (already documented in previous threads) my son encouraged me to go out dressed for the first time and insisted I take him with me, when I was afraid to. Our tendency is always to protect our children, sometimes to our own and their detriment.

This lifestyle is now reaching beyond our house. It is an extension of something we have become comfortable with. I used to never go out. I was still in the closet not that long ago. As I have become more comfortable with going out dressed I do not see why I should have to plan activities away from my children in order to dress. So we do things together and I get to dress anyway - as long as everyone is OK with it.

All this seemed so complicated and difficult and just like going out dressed, it has been remarkably easy and fun. We complicate everything in our own head. The scary but exciting part is that we really are laying new tracks here. Find me a counselor that knows beans about what we are doing and I will go see him/her. I do take offense to those who say somehow I am "using" my son. Parents "use" their kids in a million different ways. Against their spouses, for their own aggrandizement, to fulfull their own dreams - you name it. Maybe I am using my kid. By going out with him, I am showing the world that heterosexual CDs exist. That we are parents and husbands. And that we can make good fathers. In any of multiple interactions we have had with people, it has been plain for others to see what kind of relationship I have with my son and how it has helped him develop into fine, compassionate, intelligent, tolerant, boy. Oh, did I mention he speaks and writes in three languages? The only things we have heard have been positive. People are amazed that we are just interacting normally and that when he gets asked how he feels about the whole thing, he says it does not even enter his mind. It is not an issue for him and he cannot see what the big deal is!

Of course, I do get nervous sometimes. I got a little nervous when I say the teacher there. I have been coming out to more and more people and so far the world seems pretty accepting and almost embracing. If I ever hesitated to go into the pizza place without scoping it, it was for my child's benefit. He attends a pretty small private school so bullying and things like that are not likely. I do worry that a couple of his best friends have pretty conservative parents and if they were to find out, they might not want to let their kids come to our house. ( I never CD in front of his friends). My son could care less. I realize he is too young to understand the full social ramifications of what is going on, yet he is amazingly aware of how bigoted people are.

So far, we have heard nothing from the teacher or anyone else. And yes, I was dressed in a skirt and in heels and very nicely. And she definitely knew who I was. I am always recognized when enfemme.

I just volunteered to lead cub scouts next year, so it may be wise to keep the local exposure to a minimum. Maybe we need to go out to other areas. I just do not know. Why should I run? Why should I teach my son to run? I have already felt the shame of me trying to hide while he insisted that I stand tall and proud. Who said life is easy?

[Carly D.]

I think I would be "out" if someone I know knew about me.. by way of seeing me dressed or having me tell them that I dress this way.. otherwise I think just going out dressed as I have and strangers who have never seen me in male mode might think "hey that's a crossdresser" but not knowing what I look like in male mode it doesn't bother me...

[kathrynjanos]

Michelia, I'm going to include some information from a post to another person that I made here, and it's important. You can NEVER assume that anyone here has ever read any of your previous posts that are not in this thread, or, that if we did, we remember them. Simple rule for forums, and the best one I ever learned.

I don't think that anyone here stated that you had done damage to your kids, or that you did anything overtly wrong - the human brain is amazing in that it can develop in the exact same circumstances and yet still turn out differently. We stated our concerns over how this may affect him or come back to bite him BASED ON YOUR ORIGINAL POST. You have to keep that in mind. If we read into things, then it basically becomes "your fault" (not actually assigning blame here, using the nearest appropriate term) for not clarifying a given statement.

Given that you did state that you were attempting to hide it, and you were plainly asking "Am I out?" some things can legitimately be assumed or inferred. Also, when you stated in your post that you "warned" your son that this wasn't your "preferred way of doing it," it sounds to us in written form like you were placing the onus on him should you be caught. See where we might get some things from?

Finally, my point about schools: You just keep thinking that a private school is necessarily better than a public one. I've been in two different private schools over my schooling, one for third grade and one for high school. I found them both to be utterly miserable. In third grade, my teacher would join the class in openly mocking me. In fact, the neighboring teacher would sometimes take me out of the class to keep me away from him, and at least once chewed him out in front of the entire class for his behavior.

In high school, I had so many teachers that were grossly under/unqualified for their positions. Some taught a class just because they were a coach (my math teacher in 9th and 10th grades were both track coaches, teaching only so they could coach, though in both cases I found them to be far better than teachers who'd been doing it for 25 years), but other teachers just didn't care. Some were essentially mob-ruled by the class, and the administration wouldn't do anything about it except break up actual fights. Frankly, they were both far inferior to, with one exception, any public school I went to.

Anyway, you shouldn't assume that everyone is just plucking things out of thin air here, or that we're all just making negative posts. Also, I'd be careful about getting too dogmatic in believing what is and isn't OK just because something may or may not be "right" or "wrong."

[Michelia]

Kathryn,

Again, I appreciate all the comments. There was one made by another CD parent that I mean to follow up on. I think you are right that I need to be more explicit. It is just that I am usually long-winded as it is. But in cases like this I will try and be more thorough.

Obviously, I posted because I wanted feedback as well as having the desire to share my experience. I was worried that this could happen and I imagine it may happen again. Sometimes the only way we find out how we will fare is by getting out there. What I am doing is not easy and I do not take it lightly. But it has been incredibly rewarding for my entire family. I really believe, and so does my wife, that Cding has been a force for good in our lives in many ways. We all believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. So I have tried to behave accordingly. I have discussed all the issues with my son and have always insisted that he never feel forced to do anything.

It is not easy to deal with him, because honestly, he is much better, fairer, smarter, and more socially adept than his father ever was. So I would like to think I am the one guiding him and protecting him always, but that is really not the truth. He guides me and protects me more than I care to admit. I have thought about getting counseling for him just to baseline him. But we are so close and I know him so well and he is so together it is scary. I do not want to send him the wrong messages that may imply there is something wrong with with his daddy or with him.

As far as school goes, it is a very small community of international people, thus his multi-tongue ability. I see the director of the school daily. We email with the teachers back and forth weekly on the kid's progress. I know all the parents and the kids. I have yet to hear of a case of someone bullying someone for any reason. However, it is the last place I want to come out at because of the possibility of unintended consequences. I will never CD around the school or the kids, but I am not so sure we should change our lives outside of school because we might run into someone. It is not an easy decision. The other thing is there are people and parents with real issues. I am not so sure CDing is as big a deal as I once thought either.

I think I will tread more carefully for now. Again, I appreciate your contribution here. I have read all the comments and have not discredited any of them. Also, I have tried to avoid being dogmatic in any way. It has taken me 3 years to get to this point and it has been little by little and with a lot of help from others like you on this board. I really do not consider myself owner of any truth nor am I free of doubts and second thoughts. I do try always to make my kids No. 1 in my life and not me. This has been the strongest reason why I am where I am today in relation with CDing. And so far, I honestly have no regrets. I hope I can keep it this way.

[ReineD]

Unfortunately, as open and accepting as you and your family or my SO & I are towards the CDing, we do live in a world that still questions it. True, it is getting better in some of the more progressive areas, but being accepted in public without fear of recrimination is quite a different matter than expecting the people at the periphery or closer to the center of our lives to embrace the lifestyle as we do, and to welcome it into their own lives. Such as allowing a child to come to a sleep-over. Or inviting you and a SO over for cocktails and dinner or wishing to go out together while you are dressed. Or as you mention, having young Johnny and friends join your Cub Scout den instead of the other one in town.

If your son does not sense this now, he will later, especially when he begins to form his own sexuality. Your son may or may not have difficulty with it but he needs to know that you will accept how he feels over your own wish to live en femme publicly. I have a good friend whose husband CDresses and they've been out to their kids for years. While their son was in school, he did not want his friends to know. I admire my friends for fully respecting this instead of forcing their lifestyles onto a boy who had to deal with kids who were not as progressive as his parents' friends. The son is older now and more secure in himself, and his father's CDing is no longer an issue with him or his friends.

I commend you for continuing to give your son the choice, and especially for no longer exposing him to any situation that would make you or him feel potentially uncomfortable because you have not yet determined how to deal with it.

:hugs:

[Susan Smith]

It is becomming apparent we have a basic disagreement. Crossdressing is not evil, it is not something to be ashamed of. The parent is out as a crossdresser, the child is out as the son of a crossdresser. The child apparently is comfortable with the situation and is more accepting than some members of our community.

I agree that crossdressing is not evil, but Michelia is clearly not comfortable being seen when dressed by people she knows and is using her son to scout locations before she goes in.

This must give the child the impression that what Dad's doing is wrong and has to be hidden from people they know.

I'm against parents asking children to have any secrets, particularly in areas that others (teachers, perhaps) might consider sexual. No, I'm not saying crossdressing is always sexual, just that some people might consider it that way.

Michelia should go visit the teacher and be honest about the situation (it's not a crime) and should stop using her son to scout locations - she doesn't have to go out dressed with her son.

[Michelia]

Unfortunately, as open and accepting as you and your family or my SO & I are towards the CDing, we do live in a world that still questions it.

If your son does not sense this now, he will later, especially when he begins to form his own sexuality. Your son may or may not have difficulty with it but he needs to know that you will accept how he feels over your own wish to live en femme publicly.

I commend you for continuing to give your son the choice, and especially for no longer exposing him to any situation that would make you or him feel potentially uncomfortable because you have not yet determined how to deal with it.

:hugs:

Thanks, Reine, for your kind words and support. You have made your points clearly. And I agree with everything you are saying. My needs are completely secondary to my child's. I realize one day he will want to be with his friends and life will totally change. Any and all decisions will be made by all of us. As a family we have weekly meetings, and all viewpoints are taken into account.

One of problems is that this kid has grown up without TV, devours books, and has extremely good insight into people. He has a clear head and lets no one make up his mind about anything. His religious beliefs are different than mine. I do not impose my beliefs on him. I think the liberal environment he has been raised in has worked in his favor, but it also makes it a challenge as a parent. It is much easier to say this is the way it is and that is it. If he prefers sometimes to go out with daddy dressed, I obliged. I do not think he is doing it for me at all, although he is always watching my back. He understands my vulnerability and has a sense of total confidence I never had. He could care less if any of his friends were to find out. Yet I have tried to protect him from that, because he really is too little to understand to full implications of this. He is very secure in himself and I do not want that shaken.

When we first went out together with me dressed I was leaning towards places exclusively away from our area to protect him. He insisted in going to his favorite pizza place which happens to be in our and the school's backyard. I did not want to do this, but he argued I should not be afraid to got there dressed if I wanted to. After years of training one's kids to not be afraid or to let your life be ruled by what others think and to be proud of who you are and be accepting of others whether they are fat, black, gay, crazy, or whatever, it was very hard to argue my point with him. So we agreed we would go late, when chances of meeting families from school would be minimized, and on top of that he agreed to scope the place beforehand.

On the occassion originating this post, he changed the rules on me and said he did not want to scope because he did not care who was in there. When we met the teacher, he showed absolutely no concern. It was me who freaked out a little. He kept me in check and told me not to worry that nothing was going to come out of it. And to boot, he was right, which he often is and it drives me nuts.

So I try to find a balance, which is not easy. I find myself trying to curtail my CD activities to protect him, while he says "don't worry about me" and "be true to yourself, which is what you always told me".


I agree that crossdressing is not evil, but Michelia is clearly not comfortable being seen when dressed by people she knows and is using her son to scout locations before she goes in.

This must give the child the impression that what Dad's doing is wrong and has to be hidden from people they know.



Susan, sorry for the confusion. I have learned a big lesson with this thread as to being more careful and thorough when posting. Please read above notes to Reine for clarification on this.

[ReineD]

Michelia, it sounds as if you have a remarkable son. :<3: It is clear that you love him very, very much.
:love:

[AmberDay]

People may find this a little wierd, but I do like reading a thread about cding, and having two different sides debate over what occured. I learn so much from reading arguments and explainations from BOTH sides. Each person brings a different perspective and that is very educational. Being a father with four kids, it gave me perspective on open cding if I ever got that far. I have no plans on telling them I crossdress, but I wonder how they will deal with it if it ever got out.

Thanks,

Amber

[Hope]

I am disturbed by many of the posts in this thread. The child was OK with the whole thing and has no problems in being out with a crossdressing father. The posts treat crossdressing as if ir were a crime and should be hidden from the child. Bull!

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.

Absolutely.

Not only is crossdressing not a crime, but kids are not actually made of unfired porcelain and won't break. I think history has shown us that the kids who are coddled are the ones who turn out to be the least well adjusted.

I think it would be nice if we had enough respect for our children to not treat them as if they were stupid, or incapable of understanding the world around them. They are smarter and more capable than some of us give them credit for. They don't need to be protected from the world nearly as much as they need to be exposed to it, and taught how it works.

[Carin]

Absolutely.

Not only is crossdressing not a crime, but kids are not actually made of unfired porcelain and won't break. I think history has shown us that the kids who are coddled are the ones who turn out to be the least well adjusted.

I think it would be nice if we had enough respect for our children to not treat them as if they were stupid, or incapable of understanding the world around them. They are smarter and more capable than some of us give them credit for. They don't need to be protected from the world nearly as much as they need to be exposed to it, and taught how it works.

:yt:

[kathrynjanos]

Hi again Michelia,

Thanks for your detailed response - I prefer wordiness, so feel free to respond to me as such. You can be assured I'll read it.

Second, just by your responses in this thread, I can gather that your own self estimation is correct, you're an excellent parent. As I said, I was expressing my concerns based on your post, but I think you've clarified everything very nicely. You're right, it is good to see a parent who's not afraid of showing their children who they are, and helping them understand differences.

It's also good that your son's school is so supportive of their students - it's unusual at best these days.

[Michelia]

Gee, I wish I could see myelf as such a good parent. I have a lot of failings and I guess we all do. I just try to do the best I can, and of course, CDing really complicates things.

Sometimes I think what our life would be without CDing and then I realize it has been good for all of us. My wife thinks it is a total plus in our life even though it has been really hard at times. And it has brought us all closer together. It is almost hard to believe, but it is true.

This hasn't happened without a lot of talk and soul-searching, and that involves the kids. I also have a stepdaughter and she is totally OK with it. She loves that her stepdaddy understands girly things. I just never talk about her online because it is an agreement I have with my wife. And when I go out with my daughter, it is never crossdressed. But I have gone out crossdressed with the entire family and it has been lots and lots of fun. Lamentably, it is something I am not able to talk about, either. I so wish I could, but who can complain? I am a pretty lucky daddy indeed.

I just hope I can keep it all together. Sometimes I feel as if it is too good to be true and like disaster could strike at anytime. When we met this teacher, it was that feeling that came up. But then, I also have this feeling every time I go out dressed, and so far, nothing has happened. It is all quite remarkable, given all the paranoia I always had about going out in public.

I will post a picture of this outing in the gallery. After all, it deserves the documentation!