What gives you the right to wear a dress

[curse within]

Going off of Panheads Thread I've seen some mixed answers one post even suggested that some where weiners advising Panhead to work it out ,that his wife is in dismay..

I was just wondering , what does give us a right to wear a dress ? I know women wear jeans and T-shirts that's a givin. Other than that what does give us the right?
Is there a un for seen code in society that one has dues to pay before a dress can be worn?

Or is it that for women these days dresses are only worn for special events ? I have noticed that in the female gender getting dressed is like a treat something they save for special events . I think a GG could explain my point better when it come to having a right to wear certain clothing ,I know it was something in the way the were raised or taught that dressing up in a certain way is considered for many different reasons like respect as for a guy wearing a suit..

I don't know but I think reffering to Panheads thead this is where is wife was comeing from in that reamark

[Miranda09]

I think we're still a male dominated society and, as such, males make up the rules. Most women just seem to follow along or just do their own thing. Men on the other hand, are much more closely scrutinized....the homophobia syndrome, I guess. As you said, mabe a GG could explain it better.

[Veronica75]

For those of us in the USA, our right to wear a dress is part of our right of freedom of expression, guaranteed in the First Amendment to the Constitution.

In terms of GGs and how dresses are perceived, society has always been fluid in terms of what it considers formal, informal, acceptable, etc. We happen to be in a very lax, dressed down period right now, but that may change.

[Deborah Jane]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

What gives anyone the right to question what I wear?

I'll do what I want, at least when it comes to my own personal being. I may not do everything I want out in public, but in my own castle - I'm the King AND Queen! :heehee: Ok, my wife pulls rank on me at times (you married folks know what I mean), but I do not require her approval for anything I do. Before coming out to her, I did as I pleased in private. Since coming out, I can do as I please whenever I choose.

There was a time when I let others dictate how I lived my life, but that that has long since passed. I'm the boss of me - no one else.

I guess the bottom line is who has the right to restrict anyone else's personal choices in life?

[Jonianne]

It's not a matter of whether we have a right to wear a dress, the courts have settled that in our favor. The issue really is whether we are willing to face society's moral(?) disapproval and be willing to say Yes, I am a crossdresser.

In the thread you mentioned, it was the OP's wife, I'm sure, that did not want to risk facing society and having to admit "My husband is a crossdresser". I bet, deep down, that was one of the core issues she was afraid of, even if the OP was just a closet dresser. That is a fear, I imagine, most wives struggle with, even supportive ones.

[Marissa Mae]

I wish I had the inner strength to wear whatever and do whatever I wanted, but knowing that if I were to take that route, there would be no one with me, effectively making me an "outcast" to societal standards and establishment. To hell with it, it makes me so angry, that I am stuck where I am because I know that if I were to out myself, I risk all of my friends and my job, and that just can't happen at this point in my life.

Here's to being pigeon-holed :drink:


It's not a matter of whether we have a right to wear a dress, the courts have settled that in our favor. The issue really is whether we are willing to face society's moral(?) disapproval and be willing to say Yes, I am a crossdresser.

In the thread you mentioned, it was the OP's wife, I'm sure, that did not want to risk facing society and having to admit "My husband is a crossdresser". I bet, deep down, that was one of the core issues she was afraid of, even if the OP was just a closet dresser. That is a fear, I imagine, most wives struggle with, even supportive ones.

We hit "Post" at the exact same time and said nearly the exact same thing, but I think you said it a little better than me :)

[Lorileah]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

Yeah that. and it isn't a right it's a privilege

What gives you the right to wear boxers? There isn't anything set in stone as far as I can remember. Seems to me we are all born naked.

[Veronica75]

I wish I had the inner strength to wear whatever and do whatever I wanted, but knowing that if I were to take that route, there would be no one with me, effectively making me an "outcast" to societal standards and establishment. To hell with it, it makes me so angry, that I am stuck where I am because I know that if I were to out myself, I risk all of my friends and my job, and that just can't happen at this point in my life.

Here's to being pigeon-holed :drink:

You know, this got me to thinking, and I would think that it's been said at some point before: I know in the real world it could never ever be done, but what would happen if every single still-closted crossdresser-- and even those who are driven to crossdress but don't out of fear-- came out all at once on the same day? I would think society would change dramatically as it became apparent just how many of us, in how many walks of life, there really are. I bet even in the tiniest, most backward and insular towns, you'd find at least one or two other sisters.

[Carly D.]

My right is in the constitution.. one of the added bills was the right to address the nation in a certain way.. oh wait.. you said wear A dress.. the right to wear a dress.. there isn't any.. the fashion police are at my door right now... ieeee... ok.. now to be serious.. the right by me to wear a dress is up to me and the ability to wear it at home and admire myself as such "a babe" is... SHLOCK... um... well actually I think as you say most of the time women dress in a dress for special occasions and those occasions are mostly funerals and weddings (what's the difference??) and a few other events.. mostly I might never even think to dress in a dress if women would dress in a dress more often..

[MJ]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

Debs is so right :iagree:

[Sheila]

Originally Posted by deborah jane
I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!




What gives you the right to wear boxers?

Debs wears boxers :eek: How do you know ? :eek: ..................... Is there summat I should know ?:D

[Samantha43]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

I agree!

You have a way with words, Deborah!!

[Karren H]

Its a free friggin country so as long as its not illegal then I have the right to do and wear what I want, where I want, when I want...!! Period!!

Ok... As long as what I wear is tasteful and stylish and elegant.. :)

Haven't we beaten this up enough?

[Kate Lynn]

The same right that gives GG's the right.

[Sheila]

The same right that gives GG's the right to wear pants or any other clothing that appears manly,choice.

now if only you had the courage to go with your right to choice :D

[curse within]

Just remember I agree we should have the right to wear whatever we choose..

I guess what I am getting at is, does a GG wearing a dress have meaning ? Is there something one has to do that justifies wearing a dress?Is there a code that GG's follow to make it ok to wear a dress?

[Persephone]

I think we're still a male dominated society and, as such, males make up the rules. Most women just seem to follow along or just do their own thing.

I guess this could be argued endlessly and each of us would have our own facts to support our own point of view, but that just seems so stereotypical.

Other than among single women who are looking for men, one thing I have noticed about "girl world" is how little men seem to matter in women's lives.

I think that men think that women's lives revolve around them. Nope.

[TGMarla]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!
When I first saw this thread, these were the same words that popped to my mind as well. That and the fact that they fit me great!


Yeah that. and it isn't a right it's a privilege I've often said the same thing. :D


Haven't we beaten this up enough?
Yep! I read the whole other thread, too. Paige hit it squarely once again.

[Nicki B]

I guess what I am getting at is, does a GG wearing a dress have meaning ?

Of course. All clothes have meaning - they send very powerful signals..


Is there something one has to do that justifies wearing a dress?Is there a code that GG's follow to make it ok to wear a dress?

What a strange notion.. What do you mean? :strugglin

[curse within]

Ok one more time ( I was hopeing to get some GG support on this thread). Us Crossdressers ( being male at birth and raised that way for most of us anyways ) Do not understand that sometimes wearing a dress does have meaning..

Take the wedding dress or brides maid or the little black dress, they all have meaning you should also consider the style that one chooses, mini , gown and cocktail to name a few that also have meaning..

Do we know these meanings? I could be wrong but maybe that may have had something to do with the thought of the OP.. There is more to a thread than some of us see ,as in most of the time we hear only one side of the story..

[TxKimberly]

What gives me the right to wear a dress?
What gives me the right is the countless men and women that died to keep my country free, and the countless men and women who struggled for equality and tolerance for race, religion, color, etc for over two hundred years in my nation, forcing us to live up to our ideals.
What gives me the right are the thousands of service men and women serving even now to ensure that my country remains free, and is never ruled over by mad men and religious zealots that can dictate what me must profess to believe in.
What gives me the right is the fact that I live in the United States of America, where I am free to be a crack pot if I want to be.

[kellycan27]

ya just gotta have the nads.....Well do ya? :heehee:

[Nicki B]

Us Crossdressers ( being male at birth and raised that way for most of us anyways ) Do not understand that sometimes wearing a dress does have meaning...

All clothing has meaning - it all makes a statement (even if the statement is 'I don't care about my appearance').

But feminine attire does not define womanhood - which is perhaps why some of the genetic women haven't said what you expected? :strugglin

[Nicole Erin]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

Amen sister!

[Lainie]

I think I understand the meaning of the dress I choose. In fact I always try to dress in an age-appropriate way, and express my personal style in context. I have some dresses for around the house, some that would befit a girl my age in an office, some that are good for a day shopping or sight-seeing.

It's just that I never actually go to the office in a dress, because people would freak! But nonetheless, I always understand the "rhetoric of fashion", and think about every purchase as a way to expand my repertoire in the right direction, or to go with something else I already have.

Just "too much fashion sense for one gender", as they said in that old movie.

[sissystephanie]

[QUOTE=curse within;1698758]Us Crossdressers ( being male at birth and raised that way for most of us anyways ) Do not understand that sometimes wearing a dress does have meaning/QUOTE]

I certainly hope you are speaking for yourself, and not all of us! After 60+ years of crossdressing I do know that often wearing a dress does have a certain meaning. But more often, and I think this applies most of the time, I and other CD's wear a dress simply because we feel like it!! The major point is, who cares!! do you really care if wearing a dress has a special meaning? Maybe if I could wear a wedding dress I would care, but otherwise..........no.

There is NO Right by either sex to wear a particular garment! Women wear pants and mens shirts because society allows them to. Society doesn't think men should wear skirts, but certainly accepts kilts! Personally, I wear skirts out in public all the time and have never had a rude comment made to me. I have had compliments on my outfit!:)

[curse within]

All clothing has meaning - it all makes a statement (even if the statement is 'I don't care about my appearance').

But feminine attire does not define womanhood - which is perhaps why some of the genetic women haven't said what you expected? :strugglin

EXCUSE ME??????:rofl:

:eek:

[Nicki B]

What don't you understand, CW?

[curse within]

Female attire does define womanhood and varies in diffrent cultures..In ours take a nurse for one or even the maid..In soceity clothing does have meaning although the original intent was protection..

[docrobbysherry]

You know, this got me to thinking, and I would think that it's been said at some point before: I know in the real world it could never ever be done, but what would happen if every single still-closted crossdresser-- and even those who are driven to crossdress but don't out of fear-- came out all at once on the same day? I would think society would change dramatically as it became apparent just how many of us, in how many walks of life, there really are. I bet even in the tiniest, most backward and insular towns, you'd find at least one or two other sisters.

Let's turn your idea around. Imagine being a CD 100 years ago. COMPLETELY isolated, with no idea that were any others like u in the entire world!:sad:

Just BUYING some ladies things, if u didn't have an SO, could have been disasterous!:doh:

Now, let's move up to 2009. Despite the fact that we have the LEGAL rite to dress as we wish, how many would let ANYONE know they dressed, or desired to dress, if they thot THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES ON THE PLANET THAT DID THAT?:eek:
Without this, or ANY on line site, or your CD tolerant contacts and friends, etc. If u lived in a complete vacuum, how many of u would STILL dress?:brolleyes:

NOT many, I'll wager! Me, included!:straightface:

My point is; maybe we're urging each other on, either directly, or indirectly. And without that, maybe VERY FEW of us would act on, "Our rite to dress as we please"?

[Nicki B]

Female attire does define womanhood and varies in diffrent cultures..In ours take a nurse for one or even the maid..In soceity clothing does have meaning although the original intent was protection..

Try telling a woman in labour that her femininity is defined by her clothing... :roflmao:

[Jonianne]

Female attire does define womanhood.......

CW, I know you are a deeper thinker than this. Female attire helps define identification with, but not actual womanhood.

[curse within]

Try telling a woman in labour that her femininity is defined by her clothing... :roflmao: As she went through 9 months wearing maturn:tongueoutity clothing ..Thats my point so many desire to be a woman but can't even get the point of this thread..

I don't see anyone bragging about how well they pass wearing that kind of stuff...

[Jonianne]

.......I don't see anyone bragging about how well they pass wearing that kind of stuff...

Hey, I resemble that remark! That is about the only kind of cloths I can fit into!

[curse within]

Hey, I resemble that remark! That is about the only kind of cloths I can fit into!..LOL ...Joni I for some reason doubt that but thanks for the ice breaker..:hugs:

[TSchapes]

I was just wondering , what does give us a right to wear a dress ? I know women wear jeans and T-shirts that's a givin. Other than that what does give us the right?


I've read Panhead's thread and her SO is angry and frightened, that's where the comment came from.

But, to parse out just this point, just as women have pursued their women's liberation, it's time for men to break out of the shackles that have kept their softer side down! In fact, if you read the women's liberation literature, it was supposed to include men in this liberation. Somehow, that just didn't happen. Men just saw women's liberation as a threat to their power and never dug deeper into just what it could mean for them. Some of us got it, because some of us never bought into the macho mantra.

So it's time for men's liberation, where if I want to look masculine one day and feminine the next, that's my choice.

And as far as when it's the best time to wear a dress, it's anytime. Not just special occasions. :2c:

Love, Tracy

[curse within]

I've read Panhead's thread and her SO is angry and frightened, that's where the comment came from.

But, to parse out just this point, just as women have pursued their women's liberation, it's time for men to break out of the shackles that have kept their softer side down! In fact, if you read the women's liberation literature, it was supposed to include men in this liberation. Somehow, that just didn't happen. Men just saw women's liberation as a threat to their power and never dug deeper into just what it could mean for them. Some of us got it, because some of us never bought into the macho mantra.

So it's time for men's liberation, where if I want to look masculine one day and feminine the next, that's my choice.

And as far as when it's the best time to wear a dress, it's anytime. Not just special occasions. :2c:

Love, Tracy

I agree...

Wait let me one better that..In this quote as explained it appears to me that some forget that we can not forget we need support and understanding .. Not I have the right, of course we have the right some male testes showing all over..

Women are not second class citizens made to be mocked.. So what is it now we get the best of both worlds as men? In case you forgot they did pay their dues some may be to young or not even born when this movment happen.. You want understanding show some back never be so quick to point the finger and best policy is staying neutral ..

[Di]

The line you picked out of Panhead's thread the SO is scared and frightened and not understanding yet so that's why why the comment.

But I say back to you why do you feel you do not have the right to wear a dress? You do:hugs:

[Joy Carter]

But I say back to you why do you feel you do not have the right to wear a dress? You do:hugs:


Aw. And this is why Di is such a sweetie. :D

[Kolokea GG]

Well to answer your question some dresses do have meaning as do a lot other other clothes. Many will hold memories for years and that's why you must choose carefully what you wear..cause you want to remember looking good..not frumpy. For example...prom dresses...what you wear to graduation...your first date...weddings..whether you attend or your the bride. I can speak from experience..I hated my wedding dress.to the point I'd rather burn it then look at it again. I loved my prom dress that I wore it to two proms. I think going out to buy that dress for a special occasion makes it special because everytime you see or wear that dress you'll have those memories. I myself don't care to wear dresses..that's just me. to each is own..wear what ever anyone wants to wear..its inside what counts. Clothes don't make us women...

[TSchapes]

:iagree:

Love, Tracy :love:

[curse within]

Clothes just as I say below about men, doesn't make you a woman but they do have a different meaning than what most think as a crossdresser...

So again from the O.P. was it mentioned that this dress was his????? or one with meaning???

[BeckiB]

Female attire does define womanhood and varies in diffrent cultures..In ours take a nurse for one or even the maid..In soceity clothing does have meaning although the original intent was protection..

Clothing doesn't make a man



Can it really go both ways? You say female attire does define womanhood but then you say clothing doesn't make a man? I am confused

[curse within]

[QUOTE=curse within;1698758]Us Crossdressers ( being male at birth and raised that way for most of us anyways ) Do not understand that sometimes wearing a dress does have meaning/QUOTE]

I certainly hope you are speaking for yourself, and not all of us! After 60+ years of crossdressing I do know that often wearing a dress does have a certain meaning. But more often, and I think this applies most of the time, I and other CD's wear a dress simply because we feel like it!! The major point is, who cares!! do you really care if wearing a dress has a special meaning? Maybe if I could wear a wedding dress I would care, but otherwise..........no.

There is NO Right by either sex to wear a particular garment! Women wear pants and mens shirts because society allows them to. Society doesn't think men should wear skirts, but certainly accepts kilts! Personally, I wear skirts out in public all the time and have never had a rude comment made to me. I have had compliments on my outfit!:)

As I tried the best I could with all common sence and trial to be true to my nature I am forced to say this..

Please Panhead as it may or may not be the truth,


In the O.P. the wife mentioned " what gave him the right to wear the dress" . Now we here at Crossdressing .com never do anything wrong ...Right!! Panhead came out to his wife 5 weeks prior and I have doubt he owned his own dresses ( if he did he was really holding back) Yet we were so quick to defend his actions with no requards to his S.O... My..And I am the one who is so out spoken about not being a woman when I show a little understanding to one..What makes you think that she found out that the O.P. tried or wore one of her dresses?..

One that had meaning ..But of course those don't exist...

Excuse me I need to go dye my hair blonde..

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I'm wearing a dress out tonight and I cant wait. Nothing is stopping me!!

[curse within]

Can it really go both ways? You say female attire does define womanhood but then you say clothing doesn't make a man? I am confused I knew that would come up....In the post it said womanhood.....not a woman..to each there own ..= lifestlye of women and meaning as your role in society ..as what you wear and what you wear is saying .. I.E. hookers wear certain clothing as do nurses .. how you represent yourself to the public..

[KimberlyJo]

Just remember I agree we should have the right to wear whatever we choose..

I guess what I am getting at is, does a GG wearing a dress have meaning ? Is there something one has to do that justifies wearing a dress?Is there a code that GG's follow to make it ok to wear a dress?

I think you might be over-analyzing. Sure there are occasions which warrant, possibly even nearly mandate wearing a dress (a bride on her wedding day for example), but the evryday sundress? No I think they (GGs) can pretty much wear whatever they want whenever they want.

I guess...we just want equal rights to their closets ;)

[Billijo49504]

My wife....BJ

[Sammy777]

ya just gotta have the nads.....Well do ya? :heehee:

Well did I try on 5 dresses or 6? do ya know? ya feeling lucky? :lol2:


Well if you go by the "right to wear" logic,
I'm Scottish, so that gives me the [Birth] right to wear a skirt [Kilt].
So I guess I'm half way there, lol

[Nicki B]

I knew that would come up....In the post it said womanhood.....not a woman..to each there own ..= lifestlye of women and meaning as your role in society ..as what you wear and what you wear is saying .. I.E. hookers wear certain clothing as do nurses .. how you represent yourself to the public..

CW, I think you're wrapping yourself up in confusion and tripping yourself over.. Clothes maketh neither man nor woman - if that was the case, by your argument, simply wearing a dress would make you a woman.

You don't need someone elses' permission to be yourself. In the thread you're talking about, a partner is hurt and upset, that's all?

Handing over how you let yourself be defined to another is a recipe for unnecessary hurt.

You seem to think a majority don't understand what clothes mean - but I think you're wrong. They play an important role in our society, we get the nuances...

[Georgia Rose]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

Yes, I agree. Even if I didn't pay for it if I now possess it I have the right to wear it.

:drink:

[Kate Simmons]

The original issue Renyta brought up is really between her and her SO. As far as wearing the clothing, I say if the shoe, frock or whatever fits, wear it. That is if we are "man" or "woman" enough to do so.;):)

[BeckiB]

Of course it would come up. It is relevant to what you are saying. A male in womens clothing is not a woman. You can dress in the most feminine of clothing but you are still a man in womans clothing. Wearing clothing is not a right or even a privilege. You can wear what you want with few exceptions. Society has it's norms and we do fall a little outside of those norms, but that doesn't me we can't wear what we wish.


As for what I wear out in public. When I dress in womans clothing I try to dress a feminine as I can but I never expect to be seen as a woman.

Margret Thatcher once said "Being a powerful is like being lady, If you have to tell people you are than you are not"

[NicoleScott]

With all due respect: notwithstanding the fact that some thread-starting questions are designed to prompt thought and conversation, this one is dumb. With all due respect.

[curse within]

CW, I think you're wrapping yourself up in confusion and tripping yourself over.. Clothes maketh neither man nor woman - if that was the case, by your argument, simply wearing a dress would make you a woman.

You don't need someone elses' permission to be yourself. In the thread you're talking about, a partner is hurt and upset, that's all?

Handing over how you let yourself be defined to another is a recipe for unnecessary hurt.

You seem to think a majority don't understand what clothes mean - but I think you're wrong. They play an important role in our society, we get the nuances... DUH!!!! Thanks Nicki but after all these years I think I already know of this and you have taken that way out of context..

I said my point ..Watch what you wear if you are visiting the wives closet..

No more arguement from me ..Dumb or not some people just don't get it..

[CLARRISA]

Every one has the right to wear what ever they like when ever they like, the unwritten code is realy one of does the suit ..suit, examples: seasonal; its cold out, you don't realy want to be wearing a summer dress then; grocery shopping, not realy an occasion to be in sexy club wear...Also gender (eh? we know that already)..what i mean is, if you're gonna wear womens clothes and go out in them, then best to try and look like a women as best as possible, doesn't matter about not passing, but just enough to show you've made a good effort, even to cast doubt, or win admiration for your effort, that even the readers will think "Thats one of them TVs, looks alright tho, might be a TS i won't say nothing"

[Nicki B]

I said my point ..Watch what you wear if you are visiting the wives closet...

That was your point? Then why didn't you just say so? :strugglin

Just wear your own clothes.. :rolleyes:

[curse within]

Out of context again what a surpise .....I have my own ( clothes ) as one shouldn't have to GET to a point as others should just open their minds some and not be so one tracked ..

There was plenty of hint's that suggested this without me having to falsely accuse someone of doing or not doing something that was omitted from the O.P. to suggest for people to relize that there are always two sides to every story ..

Sometimes for some S.O.'s that get mentioned in here often seem to get verbaly beat up by a bunch of rengade Crossdressers that believe Crossdressing is straight forward and how dare them to be able to speak their minds.

:Pullhair:

So why is it that you continue to question something that was done in good faith . Is it you just don't really get it or anything I may suggest is wrong because I have a neutral outlook?

[Nicki B]

Out of context again what a surpise .....

Out of context how???


Is it you just don't really get it or anything I may suggest is wrong because I have a neutral outlook?

Get WHAT, precisely? :strugglin

Perhaps you might explain what you are trying to say? In small clear words, so us dumb, closed-minded folk have a chance.. :rolleyes:

Rather than
one shouldn't have to GET to a point

[docrobbysherry]

Yes, I agree. Even if I didn't pay for it if I now possess it I have the right to wear it.
:drink:

Using that same logic, u should be able to buy a clown suit, and wear it ANYWHERE U LIKE? Or, a blow up doll outfit, or Nazi uniform?
C'mon! I GET DJ's point, but IT DOESN'T APPLY ALL THE TIME!:eek:


With all due respect: notwithstanding the fact that some thread-starting questions are designed to prompt thought and conversation, this one is dumb. With all due respect.

The more posts I read in this thread, the more I'm inclined to agree with u, Nicole!:doh:

[Sarah...]

Going off of Panheads Thread I've seen some mixed answers one post even suggested that some where weiners advising Panhead to work it out ,that his wife is in dismay..

Maybe she is "in dismay"?


I was just wondering , what does give us a right to wear a dress ? I know women wear jeans and T-shirts that's a givin. Other than that what does give us the right?

Nothing gives us the right because there is no right needed to wear clothing.


Is there a un for seen code in society that one has dues to pay before a dress can be worn?

No. There are no dues to pay.


Or is it that for women these days dresses are only worn for special events ? I have noticed that in the female gender getting dressed is like a treat something they save for special events . I think a GG could explain my point better when it come to having a right to wear certain clothing ,I know it was something in the way the were raised or taught that dressing up in a certain way is considered for many different reasons like respect as for a guy wearing a suit..

There is no right to wear certain clothing. However people usually consider the context within which they will be existing at any one time before they decide what to wear that day / evening. Everyone has the ability to consider context and make appropriate choices.


I don't know but I think reffering to Panheads thead this is where is wife was comeing from in that reamark

I think she was hurting a lot and was very, very upset, quite simply.

Sarah...

[Lisa Golightly]

I have noticed that in the female gender getting dressed is like a treat something they save for special events .

No... It's just a pain in the arse to be brutally frank. Hours of prep work, loads of cash spent, uncomfortable foundation wear to hide the slide, and you get rewarded with a near grunt that sounds like 'You look alright...'.

Some great reward.

[Christina Horton]

Its a free friggin country so as long as its not illegal then I have the right to do and wear what I want, where I want, when I want...!! Period!!

Ok... As long as what I wear is tasteful and stylish and elegant.. :)

Haven't we beaten this up enough?

Karren you forgot to say "and not were jeans" EH!

[curse within]

As so many say they do have a "God given Right"..( yes now I am out of context ).. Take some of these for example ..

1. School children now have dress codes in the area of the States I live because of gang violence.

2. When on the job dress codes are enforced for most companies.

3. When going to some Resturants or Clubs dress codes are enforced.

Yes when in the closet or out and about on your own time and in cretain enviorments ,you can damn well wear whatever you choose. Society not us as idividuals judges us by appearance . Gone for most in todays world is that clothings only meaning was self protection.

Now it is a visual self representation in so many different ways. It defines differences of sex, your expression of how you represent yourself prefessinally as well as your status in soceity, Your beliefs can be expressed through clothing in .

I.E. clothing on first appearances tells someone a lot about yourself without you even knowing it sometimes..Yes clothing does have meaning but does not always!!!! Make a person..

[Tora]

Dress code for clubs, restruants, social gathering still apply in polite society.
Flying and attending church used to be reason enough to wear nicer clothes.

Another though, by Kimberly, could you amigine the talaban allowing our hobby to continue. We have the privlidge to do & dress as we wish, as long as we are free. If you think that the political leaders would not turn on Gays, Transgenders, and a host of others, if it could further there plans, think again. Freedom is not free. Bless our troops and civic leaders who put themselves at risk for others. I am Not talking about the Washington political eliet and state and local apprentices. Those dirt bags would sell their mothers for two votes. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

[Shelly67]

The right to wear a dress ?

Simple .

I ask my wife , my partner if she minds if I can come out to play . If she agrees , then as far as I,m concerned alls well .

[Sheila]

YOu have every right to wear what you want, I have no problem with your rights at all:) .... in a day or two I am gonna satrt a new thread in this section about being envious :eek::eek: . ( well of parts:D)

[curse within]

YOu have every right to wear what you want, I have no problem with your rights at all:) .... in a day or two I am gonna satrt a new thread in this section about being envious :eek::eek: . ( well of parts:D)

Looking forward to it:D

[Cary]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

[victoriamwilliams1]

I think I understand the question some what,

I think that society set the dress standards as in the past men did wear dresses and skirts however you knew what was a mans cut nd a womans cut. I believe women had the longer dresses in the Greek period and men ha the shorter ones. However today men do have skirts "kilts" and that is accepted with out any major stares by the public because most people can tell its a kilt. For us as TG individuals we like to express our feminine side so we dress to appear as a woman and many of us actually blend in and live as women of course I am not one of them however those who blend in follow the same guidelines as natal women.

[curse within]

Victoria great example..

I know I answer my own threads to much but trust me I don't live here I just take breaks as my daily boreing life continues..

I am really amazed that no one has mentioned the "RIGHT" could be translated to "why did you mis lead me ,why did you lie" what gives you the right?

[Leslie Mary S]

Snip . . .
However today men do have skirts "kilts" and that is accepted with out any major stares by the public because most people can tell its a kilt. . . . .

Don't call a kilt a skirt when you are talking to a Scott wearing one. Your ears will ring and or burn. :)

[Sammy777]

Don't call a kilt a skirt when you are talking to a Scott wearing one. Your ears will ring and or burn. :)


You tell a Scott he is wearing a skirt and your ears will be ringing from the right hook he will hit you with, LOL

[kathrynjanos]

Hard to answer directly. I'd honestly say though that to me, it's the same as women demanding the right to wear pants, even if you have already addressed that notion in your post.

Basically, to me it's "Wear what's comfortable, when appropriate." In the "real world," not our idealist noble little mindset that we have to share to survive, we cannot always do this, but in fairness, in general public where we have no bearing on our any lives (other than who sees us, anyway), why the hell not?

I would really remind people, women in particular, that there have been many times and places in history where they were only permitted to wear a specific item or type of clothing, and the punishments could well be sever for deviating. So unless they wish to revoke their own rights to wear jeans, or whatever else they want to wear, they should be wary of attempting to stop us from doing so.

Is there any greater justification needed?

[Sheila]

I would really remind people, women in particular, that there have been many times and places in history where they were only permitted to wear a specific item or type of clothing, and the punishments could well be sever for deviating. So unless they wish to revoke their own rights to wear jeans, or whatever else they want to wear, they should be wary of attempting to stop us from doing so.

How dare you .................. why should we be wary ? .............. I take it from the above statement that you believe that it is particulary women who are holding you back from wearing any particul item of clothing ........... not this woman, as far as I am concerned if you got the balls to wear "Your" dress in public you go for it girl, I don't care what you wear in public, you might I don't

[Lisa Golightly]

Don't call a kilt a skirt when you are talking to a Scott wearing one. Your ears will ring and or burn. :)

Funnily enough I am 1/4 Scots and all my kilts are skirts :battingeyelashes:

[battybattybats]

Rights come from the philosophy of the enlightenment where it was argued that all people should be equal no matter whether peasants or nobles. This resulted in works on The Rights of Man and peoples attempts to have these rights recognised and protected by law resulted in the French and American Revolutions, the English Civil War and the Eureka Stockade in Australia.

A work largely by H.G. Wells but supported by others prior to WW2 emphasised that respecting human dignity was a key to rights. Which lead to Roosevelt's famous 'four freedoms' speech which largely the justification for USA involvement in the war in Europe.

After WW2, the need for Human Rights protection under law resulted in the U.N. Decleration on Human Rights which was written by cooperation amongst the worlds nations even cooperation between the USA and Soviets!

There has since been further emphasis and understanding of these rights resulting in the UN declerations on the Rights of Women, of Children and of Indiginous Peoples.

A couple years ago now a comittee of International Human Rights Judges and Experts sat down in the city of Yogyakarta and unaninmously concluded that the original 60-year old Un Decleration of Universal Human Rights covered TG as well as GLB folk. These are the Yogyakarta Principles.

http://www.yogyakartaprinciples.org/

Those, right there, are your Rights as a CD. They are rarely protected and often abused but there they are.

From the preamble:
UNDERSTANDING ‘gender identity’ to refer to each person’s deeply felt internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex assigned at birth, including the personal sense of the body (which may involve, if freely chosen, modification of bodily appearance or function by medical, surgical or other means) and other expressions of gender, including dress, speech and mannerisms;


There's your right to wear a dress right there.

But its in the body of the piece too:


PRINCIPLE 19. The Right to Freedom of Opinion and Expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. This includes the expression of identity or personhood through speech, deportment, dress, bodily characteristics, choice of name, or any other means, as well as the freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, including with regard to human rights, sexual orientation and gender identity, through any medium and regardless of frontiers.


And further in the States (ie governments) obligations:


States shall:
a) Take all necessary legislative, administrative and other measures to ensure full enjoyment of freedom of opinion and expression, while respecting the rights and freedoms of others, without discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, including the receipt and imparting of information and ideas concerning sexual orientation and gender identity, as well as related advocacy for legal rights, publication of materials, broadcasting, organisation of or participation in conferences, and dissemination of and access to safer-sex information;
b) Ensure that the outputs and the organisation of media that is State-regulated is pluralistic and non-discriminatory in respect of issues of sexual orientation and gender identity and that the personnel recruitment and promotion policies of such organisations are non-discriminatory on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity;
c) Take all necessary legislative, administrative and other measures to ensure the full enjoyment of the right to express identity or personhood, including through speech, deportment, dress, bodily characteristics, choice of name or any other means;
d) Ensure that notions of public order, public morality, public health and public security are not employed to restrict, in a discriminatory manner, any exercise of freedom of opinion and expression that affirms diverse sexual orientations or gender identities;
e) Ensure that the exercise of freedom of opinion and expression does not violate the rights and freedoms of persons of diverse sexual orientations and gender identities;
f) Ensure that all persons, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, enjoy equal access to information and ideas, as well as to participation in public debate.

[kathrynjanos]

How dare you .................. why should we be wary ? .............. I take it from the above statement that you believe that it is particulary women who are holding you back from wearing any particul item of clothing ........... not this woman, as dar as I am concerned if you got the balls to wear "Your" dress in public you go for it girl, I don't care what you wear in public, you might I don't

How dare I? Oooooh, do ya smell what the indignity is cooking?

But since you failed to read my warning in my signature, I'm tempted to glass you like a nuke in the desert. Back off.

I NEVER ONCE - NOT AT ALL - (just in case there's some confusion here, you're being yelled at like a petulant assumptive teenager) stated that I felt that women (or anyone, actually!) were holding me back. I used this as a specific example for my argument. Don't get bent outta shape. The reason I said women in particular should be wary is that we do so at the peril of forgetting and repeating the past.

Maybe my statement wasn't clear, so if you had just had the forethought to stop and ASK what I meant, you'd have gotten a very reasoned clarification, instead of posting an off the cuff reaction.

Now, I don't expect everyone to read everyone else's posts, so I'm not passing judgement on that. I don't, because I can't. Too little time, too much to read. I assume the same extends to most people here. But had you actually read my past posts, you'd have found numerous references to actually having a plan to go out this summer! I just don't have any clothes for it right now, and frankly, though it might go over in some of the areas in NYC, I have no interest in going out in lingerie and heels.

In fact, it is (aside from here) entirely women who are helping me get an outfit together, pick out shoes, etc, because I still have no fashion sense. So if anyone is preventing me at the moment from going out, it is because Misters Jackson and Franklin who are late to the party.

[daviolin]

BECAUSE THOUGHS CUTIE LITTLE ARTICALES OF CLOTHING EXSIST.:tongueoutdAVIOLIN

[2b.Lauren]

All clothing has meaning - it all makes a statement (even if the statement is 'I don't care about my appearance').

But feminine attire does not define womanhood - which is perhaps why some of the genetic women haven't said what you expected? :strugglin


I think Nikki B said it right here. We are placing far too much emphisis on clothes verses gender. We are simply talking about clothes. I do agree that certain dresses are worn for particular events. If it is blacktie it behooves us to show up in shorts and a flower-dy shirt. Same for ladies showing up at this same event in anything less than their finest dress. Sure certain types of dresses are worn for certain reasons. However, many ladies complain dearly about having to wear those dresses, because they are so uncomfortable and do not match what they normally like to wear. Here is a very important part, being comfortable is so important to GG's as to men. I can not answer this from the GG's perspective, and would never even dare to, but I listen to my wife and know what her comfortable style of dress is, verses things she might have to wear for certain occasions. Lauren enjoys wearing dresses, pantyhose, and high heels. My wife could care less about me wearing them, wanting to see me in them, or wearing them herself.

I say the less we conform to societies standards the happier we are in general. We were born naked, and our parents then took charge of what we wore for a big part of our lives, as we got older we got more freedom to choose, a skirt or slacks. For me it is about what makes me comfortable, both enfemme and in guy mode. However, a big difference is that if we are fathers of daughters, then you can bet we are still taking charge as parents right now!

This one is officially dead IMHO.

[curse within]

I think Nikki B said it right here. We are placing far too much emphisis on clothes verses gender. .

Wow...Am I reading this correct? WOMENS clothing are in fact designed for women to promote womanhood that is in fact why we as CROSSDRESSERS are attracted to womens clothing. Let me get this out of the way one more time Clothing doesn't make a man or a women and yes we do have a right to wear what we want in certain enviroments.

From womens underwear that ARE not designed for men to dresses that are not designed to men . They tend to promote the bust area with all the extra room in front that some crossdressers use forms to fill to adjusting the hour glass figure that some crossdressers try to emulate . These clothing are designed to express these features that are womanhood features not male so yes a lot of emphisis plays a part in the design for womens clothing towards womanhood.

[Fab Karen]

WOMENS clothing are in fact designed for women to promote womanhood

SOME women's clothing is designed to flatter a woman's figure, not "promote womanhood." And there are plenty of "women's" clothes which if there was no gender label attached, could just as easily be called "men's" clothes.

[curse within]

[QUOTE=Fab Karen;1702045]SOME women's clothing is designed to flatter a woman's figure, not "promote womanhood."QUOTE]

Ok then I guess I am wrong ..That leaves me to beleive than that alot of theories here are mis guided when so many answers here on why we dress in womens clothing ..When in fact the answers are to feel more Feminine ..Wow now if that feeling isn't tied to womanhood we could all just get our kicks walking around in mens clothing..

So many answers that get posted here are blown out of the water to express the feminine part of you that just has to get out and has nothing to do with the clothing you wear.

I am really confussed now...Heck all this time I could have expressed these feelings just with a pair of blue jeans and a T-shirt..Dang:sad: Of course sporting some rough cotton boxers underneath.

[Fab Karen]

Yes, outward expression of what is felt inside. A GG can feel feminine in jeans, a t-shirt & sneakers, the clothes don't GIVE her those feelings.

[curse within]

I am not suggestion that all clothing is a 100 % as I am not suggestion more to the fact it is tied to womanhood 100%.. Can is a big word as I say it can and does..

Yes everything has limitations just as what we choose to wear sometimes does have meaning..Thats all..No offence just a kind jester..

[Nicki B]

CW, have you ever seen a pretty woman wearing a man's suit? It emphasises her femininity..


Hard to answer directly. I'd honestly say though that to me, it's the same as women demanding the right to wear pants,

Genetic women have fought long and hard for the [-]right[/-] ability to wear pants..

[curse within]

I have seen a pretty woman wearing a suit tailored to fit a woman as any model or T.V. personailty just as anyone would think ..Due to the modifications that express her womanhood ..I.E. showing cleavage and hour shape as well .. Yes very beautiful..

[Nicki B]

I didn't mean tailored to fit her. Where a man's suit doesn't fit just emphasises her body.

Which much female clothing is designed to do. Some on the other hand, is designed to disguise - while yet more is primarily protective.

[curse within]

I didn't mean tailored to fit her. Where a man's suit doesn't fit just emphasises her body.

Which much female clothing is designed to do. Some on the other hand, is designed to disguise - while yet more is primarily protective.

Or sorry ....I n that case and to be very very very very Honest.... Not as beautiful in APPEARANCE ( all women are beautiful ) as perhaps wearing a gown or the suit as suggested to show her features as a woman.

I.E. with out makeup and concealing what her mother gave her ,she would be doing just as we are ..Wouldn't you agree? Though she may have a beautiful personality..:D

[battybattybats]

Regarding women in suits...

I think we are ignoring that transgender expression is also often attractive!

From Marlene Dietrich to David Bowie to Annie Lennox to Davey Havok!

Many people find masculine expression on women and Feminine expression on men attractive!

I know late-teen Goths for example that go on about the attractiveness of Davey Havok and how sexually attractive they consider Jeffrey Starr.

I suggest that certain degrees and forms of masculine expression in women has become socially acceptable. But that it is a form of attraction to transgender that is in operation with that!

[Nicki B]

Many people find masculine expression on women and Feminine expression on men attractive!

The incongruity emphasises their base gender (okay, maybe not Bowie :D).. A girl wearing nothing but a man's shirt doesn't look like a man - it emphasises her femininity.

Sadly, for some of us, simply wearing say, a nightie, can emphasise the maleness underneath?

[linnea]

I don't think that we need any special dispensation or permission to wear a dress or any other clothing.
Girls play "dress up"; boys don't tend to. I think that that has to do with girls' sense of getting dressed being something special: they played the game and now as adults they do it for real.
Lots of boys (and more and more girls these days) play various youth league sports in preparation for playing in more mature leagues and sometimes college or professional leagues. However, boys and girls who did not play sports in their youth certainly are not barred from participating and even excelling later on--nor should they be.
It's a natural not an earned right.

[curse within]

Linnea you are absolutly right there are no rights to wear anything it's nothing more than decissions that is everyones right the decission to wear what they choose.

Thanks for also bringing up how little girls play dress up as they grow upgreat point.

[Nicki B]

Girls play "dress up"; boys don't tend to.

You're kidding, right? ;)

87387

PS - I passed a young boy in [-]football[/-] soccer clothing while out food shopping earlier..

[Nicki B]

Female attire does define womanhood and varies in diffrent cultures..In ours take a nurse for one or even the maid..In soceity clothing does have meaning although the original intent was protection..

Thinking more about this and your opening, it seems to me, CW, that you're assuming that femininity is defined by clothing.

I disagree - clothing can be an indicator of femininity, indeed that's surely a key factor in why we crossdress?

But, to me, gender(as opposed to anatomical sex) is defined by feelings and behaviours - and that is reflected in clothing styles.

I hope you may accept that men and women are all a mixture of masculine and feminine behaviours and traits. Many women have fought to be allowed to express masculine behaviours - so it is not right to prevent those who may want to express their femininity.

If you come from a male-centric, masculine-power dominated culture or upbringing, you may wish to - but isn't it clear that would be wrong?


So, this is not a 'black' and 'white' issue - femininity cannot be 'owned' solely by women, just as masculine behaviour cannot be, by men..

[Carly D.]

The first dress I ever wore was my moms.. so was the next five or even more.. I at one point was talking to a GG on line and told her that I cross dress and I told her that all a dress is is thread that turns into a dress but could just as easily have been a shirt or my pants, but is instead a dress.. and the same goes for panties or whatever else there is.. it all starts out at the very basics somewhere..

[Alice Torn]

Linnea, I think you are right, about little girls playing "dress up", and later as adults, doing it. With many, maybe, most, that well may be true. But, personally, i have talked to many birthgirls, who, say, that they don't wear dresses, or skirts, and don't own them, or hose, or heels! Personally, for me, the rare ladies in skirts, or dresses, are a refreshing, rare treat, to see. Sometimes, in these parts, it may be a few days, between sightings. Dresses and skirts express true feminimity, and, that's why so many of us express ourselves in such.

[Holly]

...In soceity (MIND YOU not my roles)..Ownership to feminie is a female Ownership to masculinity is a male.. We fit somewhere between as a unaceptable group by many ( not my opinion just reality).. That think due to ownership of a role to adventure out of that ownership is abnormal...It may be YOUR reality. It is not mine. I deal with professionals, merchants, in recreational activities and a variety of other day-to-day activities either enfemme, or with those around me knowing by virtue of either my telling them I am transgendered or they having seen me in both modes. CW, I think your reality check has bounced.

[Hali]

I CD because its part of me pple should have the right to express themselves keep on stopping them (the CDs) they keep on dressing is it compulsive ........who knows.

Am half man half woman thats how i see myself sometimes, hence i see myself having to express both the femme and the guy part through dressing or acting............whether humans wear clothes or not i will still be drawn to femme "what ever" be it their mannerisms.

I have to express myself i cant help it, i tried to "help it" i simply cant. when i see a woman especially the one i fansy, first is an instant desire which in a matter of seconds changes to wanting to be that object of desire.

I dont understand CDing i guess i will never do, but one thing i know is i have the right to wear a dress cos its part of me.

[serinalynn]

If I buy a dress, I should be able to wear it when I want to. I at times go out with my wife looking more femme that male. My wife is always afraid someone will say something about me being dressed femme. So in at least the last 15 years no one excpt for my wife, has sait a word to me about looking femme when out dressed.

[Nicki B]

Dresses and skirts express true feminimity, and, that's why so many of us express ourselves in such.

I think defining 'true' femininity by clothing is exactly the trap CW fell into. :sad:

[Intertwined]

I feel some of us are reading too much into this.

Clothing in general, is a form of expression, an indication of feeling, spirit and character.

Most of my clothing, whether intended for the male or female body are either PINK or LIGHT BLUE.

PINK: signifies romance, love, and friendship. It denotes feminine qualities and passiveness.

LIGHT BLUE: is associated with health, healing, tranquility, understanding, and softness.

The ONLY thing stopping me from wearing whatever, Is ME..!

A good example happened today, I was off to the market to pick up some last minute items for dinner. I was dressed in male, black Dickies pants, male dress shirt, and black 5 inch heel classic style pumps. When I got to the store I slipped off my shoes, and put on my mens flip flops, why? at both entrances to the store, were boy scouts collecting for something. I think I changed my shoes because I did not want to confuse the boy scouts, was what I did wrong?

[Alice Torn]

All clothing sends a message, or, going nude. Intertwined, I admire your honesty, and, between you,in my sometimes wrong opinion and me, you did the right thing, at the store.

[battybattybats]

The incongruity emphasises their base gender (okay, maybe not Bowie :D).. A girl wearing nothing but a man's shirt doesn't look like a man - it emphasises her femininity.

Sadly, for some of us, simply wearing say, a nightie, can emphasise the maleness underneath?

I think your wrong. I look at Annie Lennox, at Tilda Swinton, at K.D. Lang and I don't see their femininity emphasised at all! I see a unique combination of masculinity and femininity. Compared to say them wearing a figure-hugging 1940's cocktail dress which would definately emphasise their femininity i really don't see how their is emphasised femininity in a woman in a suit.

I think that this is a myth told and believed to justify how mixed-gender expression within certain degrees is acceptable and even acknowledged as attractive on women. That it is a TG attractiveness we pretend, even to ourselves, is still feminine in order to be comfortable that we find it attractive.

Where's the emphasis of masculintiy in Emo pin-up boy Davey Havok of AFI? http://i16.tinypic.com/4zk6seq.jpg http://media.photobucket.com/image/davey%20havok/FMA_gurl_87/Davey%20Havok/davey_havok--large-msg-11672655355.jpg
or the controvertial Jeffree Starr? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZX1V1BFeaWY/SdD-BI_BXuI/AAAAAAAAAO0/A23sqLB3ToI/s400/Jeffree-Star-376.jpg http://idontwantyourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/jef1.jpg

Both of whom are considered very sexually attractive by GGs that I know.

Instead a masculine clothing expression on a very femininely anatomied woman or feminine makeup-clothing expression on a very masculine bodied man simply results in a form of distinclty transgender not-at-all-passing appearance. One that it is acceptable these days to find attractive on women but not on men because of the intersections of Sexism (such as "of course women would want to be masculine as being a man/having male qualities is better while a man being feminine is crazy") Homophobia ("lesbians are hot, so long as they aren't too butch, but gay men, especially effeminate ones are disgusting") and of course Transphobia.

[FoxyFriend]

87702

87703

http://www.bobclops.co.uk/new/

Is it really the dress you are having issues with?

[Pink Person]

Most people don’t deliberately wear clothing to satisfy the demands of natural law and social order. They aren’t that high minded about it. No woman is saving the world when she wears a dress and no man is destroying it when he wears one. It’s all a silly and selfish fashion show for Wal-Mart shoppers. Pretty boys and handsome girls make it more interesting.

[Peka TG]

I bought it, i payed for it and it's mine.
I have every right to wear it!!!!

:iagree:

[Jenniferpl]

Because my wife said I could.

[Teresa Macaw]

I think it is a mute point, we wear what we feel like or need to. Do differebt than why a suit???

[Sarah89]

What gives anybody the right to wear anything...
Human Rights.