Thinking about CD & TS, my small theory on 1 part.

[KateC]

I think so much daily about ourselves and how we are. I'm not trying to label it but I am trying to understand it, or at least myself more. Kind of explain it and define it better.

CD TS or whatever else of this spectrum of transgenderism are just labels. Those who claim they are "CD" only, regardless this label, but still want to live 24/7 full time, have breasts etc, I think they just are TS in that sense. What I'm saying is, maybe all of us are TS in varying degrees, but those who don't need to do GRS are just that. TS who don't need to transition, but nonetheless are TS. Maybe there's no such thing as CD, everyone is TS afterall.

I think of myself as that at least, like regardless of the reason you dress up, there is one common goal amongst MOST of us, is that we want to emulate a female version of ourselves. Despite wanting to do surgeries or hormones or just doing it part time, living full time. This is what I think at least, please discuss.

[Karren H]

Well that wasn't convincing enough to sway me from my "Alien abduction" theory for crossdressing.. And I really don't have a need to know why.....

So when's Part 2? :)

[Sam-antha]

.... there is one common goal amongst MOST of us, is that we want to emulate a female version of ourselves.

Kate, that is not quite right in my personal book. I want to live the female version of myself.
~Samm

[Kate Simmons]

The only thing I know for sure Kate is that we are who we are for a reason. Whether or not we find out the reason or even care why is another story it seems.

[Ellen James]

Kate -

You are addressing some of the questions I am tryng to answer myself. However, one of the few lessons I have learned over the years is to let people decide for themselves what they want to be called or how they want to be addressed. They own their own identity and in my opinion have the right to those decisions.

However, I think the issue of behaviors is a more wide open - having recognized that I am attracted to cross-dressing (attracted? compelled??) only recently, I'm still trying to figure out the wider/broader/deeper elements of this - the whys and wherefores.

Right now, I'm not so sure that I would want to give up my male identity which also comes with a lot of extras such as family, friends, and activities I enjoy pursuing. On the other hand (and if wishes were horses beggars would ride), if it were possible to transform completely between all male and all female for some period of time I think I would be at the front of the line. Why? I'm not really sure though I suspect that it is at least in part due to the presence in my life at different stages of strong women in various roles.

It could be that I am trying for that reason to emulate them, but I also think that as Ellen I am reaching out to some feminine element or aspect of my own identity that has been wanting to express itself more freely and openly. For me, only more experience and time will tell where I'm going on this journey.

[KateC]

Well if want to LIVE as a female, that's not really CDing. I'm talking about people who claim they aren't TS because they don't want to do hormones etc and other stuff, but stay with the CD label.

[RobCD]

I dont think there is an explanation for everyone.

We all have different reasons for doing this.

I would love to become a woman, but I would also want the ability to change back too. Basically the abilities to change at will.

Think Ranma 1/2 only with more control

[Holly]

...CD TS or whatever else of this spectrum of transgenderism are just labels...Kate, that's right; they're just labels. And the purpose of the label is so that other people know what is inside the box. The box itself could care less what label is on it as it already knows what is inside. At the risk of stating the obvious, it sounds as if you are still struggling to identify your own contents.

Another problem is not everyone agrees on what the label means. For example, suppose you come across a box labeled, "Baking Goods." What would you expect to find inside? Muffin tins. cake pans, mixing bowls, etc? Or flour, yeast, sugar, flavorings, and so on?

We learn from one another and gain bits and pieces of insight into ourselves by talking to one another. At the end of the day, my label won't work for you and yours can't work for me. It's the opening ourselves up and letting others take a peek inside that is the most helpful... to both parties.

[Joanne f]

Although i agree that labels are just labels and in the end it makes no difference to yourself what you call it , i find myself disagreeing that it all amounts to the same thing .
It has been said before that there are many degrees/variations of cross dressing and there are no doubt different degrees of being transsexual but i do think that there is a difference between the two as they both have different goals or outcomes for the individual.

[boardpuppy]

Hi Kate,

I think I understand your question and am trying to identify how and where I fit into this Transgender scheme. I don't have the whole thing down yet but I have a better understanding of myself from even a month ago.

If you are a CDer, then you enjoy the look (clothes, hair, make up etc) of a women, dressing (duration, unknow???) as such but returning to your male mode and being happy with all fasits of your "male mode" untill next time (determined by the individual). However, you are a Transexual if you want to emulate a women by presentation (yes, I mean live), date men (dressed as a women), and dressing or underdressing 24/7, ( because you enjoy the feelings).

I'm sure some of the other girls can add/clarrify this defination (it's mostly complete) better but that is a good start, IMHO.

Hugs,
Alice

Holly is right, it is only a label but a label telling other people know what you are about. The only problem with that is not everyone agresses with the defination.

[Joanne f]

You do not want to emulate a woman if you are TS as you are already a woman and sexuality has nothing to do with it ( just my opinion):D

[susiej]

As to labels, Lewis Carroll dealt with the significance of labels decades ago:


The name of the song is called 'Haddocks' Eyes.'"

"Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?" Alice said, trying to feel interested.

"No, you don't understand," the Knight said, looking a little vexed. "That's what the name is called. The name really is 'The Aged, Aged Man.'"

"Then I ought to have said 'That's what the song is called'?" Alice corrected herself.

"No you oughtn't: that's another thing. The song is called 'Ways and Means' but that's only what it's called, you know!"

"Well, what is the song then?" said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered.

"I was coming to that," the Knight said. "The song really is 'A-sitting On a Gate': and the tune's my own invention."

:)

We tend to get distracted by the labels, and repeatedly come to the conclusion that they don't matter. But, there is important information beyond the labels.

There is no doubt that there are different "flavors" of this most delicious propensity toward the feminine that we all share. For instance, I believe for some of us, wearing the clothes is "the thing" -- but I wear the clothes because I really want to be a girl, and almost as a side issue, I dress like one. Some of my category want to be a girl so much that they transition; others, like me, are content to "visit" (usually a lot!), but don't need to "live there".

I submit that these distinctions are important, particular to newbies, because they carry with them different behavior and need patterns. Not every boy who puts on his sister's bra is going to eventually have SRS, and these distinctions can be of use and comfort to him on his journey.

Hugs,
Susie

[Diane Elizabeth]

What ever the reason or theory that one dresses or lives to dress will be different for any one individual. So no theory will fit all of us. No one square peg will fit in to a round hole.

[KateC]

Well I guess I meant something else, I wasn't really into labeling things like TS or CD, but I mean that I think most of us who do what we do, is an some extent to want to be a woman, temporarily for an hour or day or weeks at a time, whatever. That's what I mean. Unless you just want to wear a pair of panties and that's enough for you, or just a blouse with your male attire, most of us want to be a woman. That's what I'm trying to get at.

I like to think of most of us aren't men in skirts...

[Carole Cross]

I don't just want to live as a female, I want to BE a female. I believe that this was denied me at birth and I want to put it right because I cannot live a lie any longer, that is what it is like for a MtF TS.
Most MtF CDer's want to remain essentially male and only dress some of the time.

[KateC]

I don't just want to live as a female, I want to BE a female. I believe that this was denied me at birth and I want to put it right because I cannot live a lie any longer, that is what it is like for a MtF TS.
Most MtF CDer's want to remain essentially male and only dress some of the time.

Yeah but my point is when those MTF CDer's dress, they don't want to look like a man in a dress right? They want the whole nine yards to look like a female, down to mannerisms and jewelery...

I'm just thinking 90% of us do it the whole thing, and just a few of us do it "half-assed" meaning just wearing a bra with guys' clothing etc. I don't mean underdressed, but like just wearing one piece of clothing and presenting yourself as a male...

[Dressing Jill]

I like Karren's Idea.

Alien put a implant in our brains, it is a grand experiment.

We do need to identify with something or someone. It is human nature the alien forgot to wipe our minds clear. LOL.........

[Carole Cross]

Yes, but most who want to live full time as women are essentially TS because they want to present to the world that they are female. Living full time means no switching genders when you feel like it, if you have to switch gender, either dressing or having a sexual relationship as a man, then you are not living full time as a woman and are still considered to be a CD. You can be TS without taking hormones or having surgery, some can't because of medical reasons.
Most TS people see only one other option other than transitioning and that is suicide. I think that all TS consider suicide, because of their feelings, at some point in their lives, I certainly have, on more than one occasion

[Leslie Mary S]

Yeah but my point is when those MTF CDer's dress, they don't want to look like a man in a dress right? They want the whole nine yards to look like a female, down to mannerisms and jewelery...

I'm just thinking 90% of us do it the whole thing, and just a few of us do it "half-assed" meaning just wearing a bra with guys' clothing etc. I don't mean underdressed, but like just wearing one piece of clothing and presenting yourself as a male...

What you are seeing is a natural competitive nature.

The prize is to make it as long time as you can without being made.
I don't have a very strong competitive streak.

When I started CDing all I wanted to do was to feel the material and the experience embrace. As time progressed that feel started to become to common and did not carry the same excitement or fear of getting caught. So I 'pushed the envelope'.
Now I not only dress around the house, I, on occasion, will go shopping or clubbing dressed out.
Sure I would like to be accepted as a lady but I am very realistic, I am a man pretending to be a woman. Someday I might even fully pass as a lady. Right now I am at the 20 foot mark. Most real woman and some men make me out by the time I get within 20 feet of them. :D

[CharleneT]

I think that all of us can be put under the big tent of "TG", after that, there are significant differences that deserve being made official. There are plenty of CD's who really just want to be a man in a dress, for whatever reason. Others who like the idea of being a woman for a while. There are also folks out there who really do not care about clothes at all and are moving toward ( or are ) living as a female - and have no interest in living as a man. Hence I think a division of CD vs TS is useful. I picked those two examples only to show an obvious difference, there are plenty of grey areas betwixt and between, as well as other combinations. I agree with Holly, it helps others to have the boxes have a label. Yes, these labels will sometimes not be completely accurate, but they still serve a good purpose.

Many CD's refer to their experiences in the third person ( "Charlene went to the mall and bought a dress today!" or I introduced my mother to "Charlene" last night ). I think that this can be very telling, to them, the aspect of their personality that is feminine is also a separate character. One they experience or 'act out' purposely. I do not think you will find many (if any) TS's who see it that way. It is much more common for a TS to see themselves as a single person, with a gender that happens to be wrong. They may have issues with how to live in the correct gender, but it is not a game or hobby.

[Carly D.]

I've said this before but what the heck I'll say it here as well again, when I dress I don't feel a whole lot different than I do when I am in male attire.. for me I think of myself as Carly mentally more 24/7.. I don't have to wear any fem clothes to achieve that.. so truth be told I am as I am.. I am what I yam and so.. sorry .. side tracked there..

I wish I knew how to explain my dressing better so anyone I told would get it (UREKA THAT MAKES SENSE!!) but I am at a loss for words.. when I dressed up last week (Thursday) and tried to go to different places I took some pictures of myself pre-sortie as it were, and thought "yeah, that looks good".. the next day I freaked out and thought what must those who saw me thought?? anyway what I wish I could do, and I've said this many times is, I wish I could dress the way I want and not feel like I have to present as female when I do so.. but I would look like a freak or be treated as such so I try to "pass" knowing full well it's a stretch at best..

I feel since I don't wear makeup as a male then why should I when I am wearing these clothes?? it's not what I want to wear.. but I know that is the only way to do this.. so makeup will likely be in my future if I am ever gonna try to go into public places...

[marla01]

Why is there this binary assumption of CD vs TS? Actually, I would suggest that CD's and TS's are only a small portion of all transgendereds.

So when someone suggest an individual is one or the other, they are ignoring a huge chunk of real transgendered people living real lives.

Marla
(who finds either CD or TS to be horribly poor labels for myself)

[curse within]

Kate , Great post.

For me .... I just get this stupid nerve racking urge.. I have always wished it away , but it's strong ..It's an endless battle in my identity of who or what I should be and not what I want to be.

I know what I want to be 24/7 a male.. So some ask.."Why don't you then and stop crying about it?".. Jezz... Well tell me how , show me the way.. While others say "just accept it as it gets easier once you do".. Well I am trying that now, It's working but I still have a guy side that says no! Stop this nonsense , this is wrong .. Its the same battle but in reverse..

T.S. no not at all , T.G. yes.. Crossdresser yes.. Happy yet NO.

[Sophie A Walker]

Marla Why is there this binary assumption of CD vs TS? Actually, I would suggest that CD's and TS's are only a small portion of all transgendereds.

Marla seems to have a similar point of view to myself. I also believe that looking for 'a cause' is a mistake that medical science has been making for far too long. There is almost certainly not one cause, but many, and there are probably as many different outcomes as there are CD/TS people, though some may be more or less alike than others, but often beginning from different starting points.

I think that the presence of those who blur gender distinctions must fulfill an important role for society in some way as there is a lot of evidence that gender crossing individuals have been present in many many cultures, and that they have been more or less accepted in cultures going back as far as recorded history reaches.

This particular time in history seems odd because we seem in some ways to be accepted, but in others rejected. There is tolerance alongside intolerance, and often it feels quite polarised.

If I am out dressed, usually I am read (6'2" in flats so I stand out a bit) but sometimes not but my anxiety gets triggered by intolerance in those that read me. I have learned not to label myself and to only address the labels others put on my when I am forced to.

At best I think of myself as someone who displays gender crossing behaviour, and if there is a label in my mind to describe myself 'gender migrant' is probably the closest.

I guess I see acts or behaviours differently, for example I would identify the need to 'split' the feminine off into a seperate personality as something done to protect the masculine personality from the (real or imagined) ridicule or hassle of intolerant social contacts. I think that this can be as true for many who would identify as TS as well as those who identify as CD. I dont think that this is necissarily wrong per se, though I do worry that it leaves the individual struggling to keep 2 seperate lives balanced.

I understand I am fortunate, I met my wife whilst dressed very androgynously, or prehaps ambiguously, prior to that I only half heartedly hid things from my siblings and hid vertually nothing from anyone else. In fact the only real difficulty has been with my wife's family, as they see it as some kind of reflection on them.

Although I use a boy name and a fem name I never refer to myself as 'him or her' in my mind it is always I, and I hope I always refer to myself in that way. I think the distinction between CD and TS for me is that CDs feel like men who dress fem and TSs feel like women who don't always look as fem as they would like.

Personally in most respects I live a female life, despite not always passing very easily. At work I usually wear Womens Jeans/trousers and non descript shoes, but more often than not for practical reasons mens shirts, all my associates are women, if I talk to people at work it is mainly with the women, If I socialise withanyone from work it is with the women and I basically find relating to men face to face quite difficult, I suspect they find it hard to relate to me too.

As someone interested in social science I have taken possibly every psychometric test known to psychology and always end up 'androgynous' at the least and more often than not produce a score more typically associated with women, all suggests I fit the TS label, but somehow that doesn't feel right, but neither does CD. Androgyne fees closer though I am not 100% comfy with that either.

[BeckiB]

"I am what I am" Popeye

[sometimes_miss]

Heeeeeeeere we go. Well, if you've read my attenuated biography on this forum, you'll know one way to 'create a crossdresser' if you start from infancy and want to influence a heterosexual person into it. Believe me, it took a very long time to figure it all out, and I suppose there might be other things going on as well. Whether we are all transsexual to some degree, well on that one I really don't know, because transsexuals have other things different about them from those of us who just wear the clothes because it feels like the correct thing to do.
Consider for a moment, how would you behave were you to be stranded on a desert island, alone, with a ship full of other people's clothing (miraculously, all your size) at your disposal. What would you wear? How would you behave?
Male or female, the vast majority of things we do, we do the same whether we are male or female, and our basic skill sets are very, very similar. Go through an average day, examine everything you do, and see for yourself. We roll out of bed the same, turn off the alarm clock the same, wash our hands the same, step into the shower the same, etc. etc.. Still, when you examine men and women closely, you do find some differences beyond just the physical (the most enlightening are in the way we think depending on whether we are male or female). Rather than write a book here, I refer you to some authors who've already done the research, and you can then read further by using their own references. These are pretty easy reads, you can get through each one in an average afternoon, and they describe how we think differently, and then behave differently. Then of course you have to figure out which sex you are predominantly attracted to, and whether you 'self identify' as male or female in order to figure out if you are basically heterosexual or homosexual (words which in themselves scare some people into running to the opposite end of the gender pool). There's really a whole lot going on in our minds beyond just what clothing we feel we should wear, and who we want to have sex with. The books are available used, so you won't be spending much money (until you get hooked on learning this stuff and buy everything under the sun that has anything to do with mind and gender like I did). I've included links should you decide to read.

Leil Lowndes studied our mating behavior. See how we interact differently with others of the opposite sex and why:
1. How to make anyone fall in love with you; yes, it works differently for men and women.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Anyone-Fall-Love/dp/0809229897/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241066304&sr=1-1
2. Undercover sex signals.
http://www.amazon.com/Undercover-Sex-Signals-Pickup-Guide/dp/0806527935/ref=pd_sim_b_2
3. How to be a people magnet.
http://www.amazon.com/How-People-Magnet-Friends-Lovers/dp/0809224356/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241066359&sr=8-1

Dr Perper, a biologist studied
1. Sex Signals: The biology of love. In it he describes the mating behaviors of male and female, which are very different.
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Signals-Biology-Timothy-Perper/dp/0894950495/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241064382&sr=1-2

Alan and Barbare Pease. All sorts of little odds and ends about how we are different.
1. Why men don't listen and women can't read maps
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Listen-Women-Cant-Read/dp/0767907639/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241066391&sr=8-1
2. Why men don't have a clue and women always need more shoes
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Women-Always-Shoes/dp/0767916107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241066431&sr=1-1
3. Why men lie and women cry
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Lie-Women-Cry/dp/8186775323/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241066451&sr=1-1

Helen Fisher, an anthropologists perspective.
1. Why we love
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805077960/ref=pd_luc_sim_01_03

If the links no longer work, just go to your favorite book supplier and type in the author and the name of the book.

There are a whole lot more, basically if you really want to, you can take every psychology course you can find and begin to apply the bits and pieces that apply to gender into your own all-encompassing theory (kind of what I've done). Then read everyone else's thoughts on the matter, and expand on that.

In the end, I simply go with Becki and the Popeye idea. While we can change our outward behavior, we can't always change who we basically are; little adjustments are possible, but wholesale changes, probably not. And while there are a whole lot of people who want to believe that our minds and personalities are already completely 'set' at birth, I differ with that opinion, based on this thought: Of what then, do you make of a child who was born, oh, three months prematurely? Is that child's mind going to remain forever unfinished? I think not. I think our minds and personalities continue to develop over a much longer period of time, perhaps all the way through adolescence, perhaps longer. At what stage each part of our personalities is 'complete' is as yet unknown. My best example is language and accents. You can teach a child different languages, and yet he won't develop an accent. Yet, after puberty, even if you take that person to another country and teach him a language with only native born speakers, he will retain the accent of his earlier home city. This is a clear example of certain parts of our mind 'finalizing' at different times in our life. How much more do we not yet know about our minds, well, we don't know yet!

While on that subject. While I'm wearing a long wig, I unconsciously play with my hair a lot (I found myself doing it while deciding what to type here, for example). In the real world when you observe them, 'Normal' males with genuine long hair don't do that.
I also hate, hate, hate wearing shirts with a collar that touches my neck, but only when dressed as a guy. When dressed as a girl, I like feeling a choker, collar or turtleneck top on my neck, and will wear it all day without noticing it or having it bothering me at all. Any opinions on why?? Please email me about this if you have a clue, rather than take up this thread.

[Oddlee]

Kate , Great post.

For me .... I just get this stupid nerve racking urge.. I have always wished it away , but it's strong ..It's an endless battle in my identity of who or what I should be and not what I want to be.

I know what I want to be 24/7 a male.. So some ask.."Why don't you then and stop crying about it?".. Jezz... Well tell me how , show me the way.. While others say "just accept it as it gets easier once you do".. Well I am trying that now, It's working but I still have a guy side that says no! Stop this nonsense , this is wrong .. Its the same battle but in reverse..

T.S. no not at all , T.G. yes.. Crossdresser yes.. Happy yet NO.

I'm kind of in the same place, although I'm further along the self-acceptance scale. It helps to tell a good friend (one you think it will not matter to... to have someone to talk to). I've told my best friends, it has not mattered to them. One of these (the first one, actually) is an ex-girlfriend who became a "friend with benefits" until she found a boyfriend. She knew me as male regardless of dress, and we remain in contact.

Anyway, at this point I've bowed to the inevitable. It's how I am - I'd better accept that and get on with it. This forum has definitely helped on the self-acceptance side, and includes a great supply of supportive people. Maybe the trick is to dissociate gender with other behaviors - I believe I'm a good person regardless of gender presentation; I don't think clothing changes my behavior...

Lee

[Carly D.]

Kate , Great post.

For me .... I just get this stupid nerve racking urge.. I have always wished it away , but it's strong ..It's an endless battle in my identity of who or what I should be and not what I want to be.

I know what I want to be 24/7 a male.. So some ask.."Why don't you then and stop crying about it?".. Jezz... Well tell me how , show me the way.. While others say "just accept it as it gets easier once you do".. Well I am trying that now, It's working but I still have a guy side that says no! Stop this nonsense , this is wrong .. Its the same battle but in reverse..

T.S. no not at all , T.G. yes.. Crossdresser yes.. Happy yet NO.

I wish I could do this, short explanations of how I feel.. this is how I feel a lot!! and it just seems like everytime I think I can tell somebody about this side of me I think of the aftermath of the decision.. and crawl back in my hole.. I am male.. I really would rather be male (since this is what I know).. but I really like wearing womens clothing because it feels good to me.. I feel like the first thing that I would say if caught by someone (family member) would be I'm sorry.. I think mostly I would be sorry that I didn't tell them sooner but I don't know how they will react, and I think they might accept it (I've said I am the"blacksheep" of the family) but the wildcard is that feeling of not being right (in the head) and thinking everyone would feel that way (not just my little brothers wife who is NUTS!!). I'm rambling here.. I feel happy to cross dress.. would be happy if everyone I knew knows, and at least accepted it.. not that they would have to see it to believe it is true.. I've nearly been caught too many times and I know the law of averages is stacked way against me... anyway, I am a cross dresser.. wish I could say that to family but...

[CLARRISA]

1) When we were born we all started out as female...

2) Females are XX and males are XY (not YY)

3) logicaly then we are a bit of both, Some choose to express it and some don't, but i gaurantee most would like to...

Also it explains why its mainly males that do this.

Voila, problem solved, now we are justified...any one says to me why do you do it? i say its cos i have an X chromosome, and if they're male i'll say "and you've got one too, why arn't you doing it?