Has anyone noticed....?

[pickles]

Has anyone noticed no one seems to care?

I'm just starting to come out of the closet with this and I'm really amazed how no one seems to give a flip. I've been trying to live as the manliest man I could be until now (yeah I was in denial) and a few months ago I wouldn't have been caught dead doing any of this, but it seems no one's noticed or doesn't care:

1) I just told my mom. Her reaction was basically "Oh dear." She even cleaned my apartment with all my girly stuff in it. The next day she went back to asking me if she could buy me some new clothes (guy ones)....

2) My girlfriend is supportive, sorta...but it's always about her kind of, you know? We're happy with each other though.

3) My councilor doesn't seem to care what I do, just as long as I'm not jumping off any bridges.

4) Changed my sex on facebook from male to female, no one noticed...

5) Went and bought women's razors and shaving gel and looked at makeup today. Not a look.

6) Hung out with my guy friends with makeup on. No one noticed, no weird looks or anything.

7) Went to class with makeup on, no one noticed, no looks or anything again again.

8) Changed my font on my online chat client to bright pink comic sans and my avatar to this (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=hina+ichigo&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=) anime character. No one's said anything.

What's going on? Is everyone really that apathetic? I was expecting more questions and stuff. Maybe everyone hates me.

So how was your day?

[Lisa Golightly]

I think when you first start telling people there's this 'Yeah, right' attitude. The further you go and the more you change the more reaction you see. One year and nine months in I've seen some of the most radical baulking to my changes from those closest to me... My best friend (ex-best friend?) gave me a very public and savage verbal mauling recently... Hmmmmm... and I thought he was ok with it...

I'm glad you've not had a negative reation and I hope you never ever do, but always be a bit cautious with others acceptance... Somewhere down the line you may find it was mere politeness.

Good luck.

Lisa x

[GypsyKaren]

You'll also find out that there's a whole lot more to it than changing fonts or looking at makeup.

Karen :g1:

[SirTrey]

I think when you first start telling people there's this 'Yeah, right' attitude. The further you go and the more you change the more reaction you see....

Lisa is 100% right here, unfortunately....I thought the exact same thing when I came out....I was so nervous and people seemed to take it almost too well....I was very relieved....UNTIL they started to see that this was not a phase....That's when I realized there was no reaction because they didn't GET it....Once I started the process of going on testosterone, that's when it hit the fan....and, ultimately, I lost My entire family (other than My kids)....lost several good friends....and, for a while, My life became a living hell....It's getting better now as I am learning to live without the people who opted out when it became clear that I was dead serious and this was not a temporary thing, but, for a while, it was really tough....Even My own mother, grandmother, and siblings won't acknowledge My existence....so, don't be so sure it's going to be easy....For your sake, I hope it is....but don't bet on it....Just be aware that peoples' initial reactions may not be what they will be longterm. Good Luck....**Trey**

[StevieTV]

You'll need to play it by ear. Be informed in order to respond politely and calmly if and when people begin to notice. If you are serious, don't permit fear to overwhlem you. The more you know and are able to communicate to your friends (when asked) will be your best move. Don't go off the deep end getting flamboyant as that will spark a negative reaction due to the dramatic change in how your friends see you and know you.
Best of luck. You are always welcomed here :)

[Jenna1561]

I think when you first start telling people there's this 'Yeah, right' attitude. The further you go and the more you change the more reaction you see. One year and nine months in I've seen some of the most radical baulking to my changes from those closest to me... My best friend (ex-best friend?) gave me a very public and savage verbal mauling recently... Hmmmmm... and I thought he was ok with it...

I'm glad you've not had a negative reation and I hope you never ever do, but always be a bit cautious with others acceptance... Somewhere down the line you may find it was mere politeness.

Good luck.

Lisa x

I totally agree with Lisa. I started incorporating little bits of Jenna's appearance in my male presentation at work about 3 years ago and have very slowloy added to the amount of Jenna shining through, to a point 4 months ago when I started presenting as Jenna 100% and full-time at work. Last week it was made official at work with the email announcement of my transition (I've been talking to HR for 2 months).

I always knew there was gossip, but no one ever said anything negative. I had a few compliments and one very strong supporter. After the announcement, several women, including one I was really worried about turning against me, have told me they fully support me and want me to be happy. Of course I believe them and time will tell if their heart and soul truly support me.

And of course there were a few who, as I expected, are rude and mean spirited.

But I was truly surprised by the reaction of two women who I'd considered friends. They were definitely non-supportive and they raised the biggest concern over restroom usage. I have lost some, what I thought were life-long friends, who just can't or won't get past this.

So as Lisa says, be happy, but be wary of acceptance it may turn out to be just politeness.

Jen

[stephaniedoes]

well i have been to the make up isle and no1 cared either but they dont no what your doing, people seem to have an attitude that may be your problem type thing going on. with my wife when i tell her im gonna have breasts soon she luaghs and says im funny but im dead serious. i am also the type that no1 would expect to do this type of thing but at first i think they will criticize me or more, im in alot of fear about this but theres a part of me that just dont care. this is who i am so if you dont like, look away. but as far as people not noticing you, they do they are just confused and its hard to talk about, probly more of a one on one type thing. i hope though that do dont get what you expect..

[Staciej]

I get some looks bad. Then it always comes back to me.

1. I will probaly see this peon once in my life.
2. Are they looking at me this way cause im in a wheelchair or cause they notice? (thats always a hard one for me.)
3. Maybe even jelous that im brave and there not.

I feal people do not realy notice at all. It's so comon everyday as my friend said his problem with it he don't want to offend me. I told him call me what you feal is ok with you. Do others feal that way? Just afraid to ofendd you rather stay scared instead of finding out themselfs? Myself if they dont call me miss im ok with it they dont see female or maybe im dressed more male and dont want to ofend me in that way. ( Im a Tomboy sometimes)

If they notice its way worst then if they don't.

[Veronica_Jean]

This thread makes me wonder ...
- if all the people who treat me as a girl are just being polite and respectful, because they don't care enough to be concerned deeply about the implications and impact of what I am doing on my life, and
- if everyone close to me I have come out to and who seem supportive do not yet understand what transition really means to my life and to everything in my life

I have always suspected that I am doing something totally ridiculous and that everyone knows this and they are playing along, as if I am Truman on the Truman Show.

I notice that the few who care most for me (my family) are trying to "cure" me by talking with me about how good I am as male and telling me that I do not need to transition because they are there for me to overcome as much unhappiness as they can help me overcome without transitioning. Are they the only ones who have thought far enough to recognize the implications of my actions?

Well if I had to make a guess, I would say you are on the money. Good or bad, many if not most that transition lose many or most of there family members. Those that do continue to support you may seem distant or act like you are not quite right.

I have found that most of the people I run into on the street or in stores don't even notice although I know I don't pass very well. But if they are willing to be respectful of how I wish to live, that is fine by me. I don't know them nor they me and as long as we all get long then I am happy.

[pickles]

Hmmm, so to basically distill everyones posts: it's everyone else in denial now except me?

[DanielMacBride]

Hmmm, so to basically distill everyones posts: it's everyone else in denial now except me?

Yep, you got it in one, pickles - that's exactly what happens ;) It's a very similar process to the stages of grief, because in a sense, those around us have to grieve the loss of the person they thought they knew.

So you have the initial reaction of denial and isolation, where people either pretend nothing has changed, or just simply avoid you. Then as time passes and people start to see that things are NOT the same, you have anger (people confronting you, arguments with loved ones who are starting to see the changes and so on).

The next stage is bargaining - this is the kind of thing you see with family members for example who will do anything to make you go back to being the person they thought they knew, whether they bargain outright with you or not (sometimes this can manifest in other somewhat more passive-aggressive ways, too, much like a parent withholding love from a child who doesn't do what they want).

Then depression - this will hit as people are starting to see that their bargaining efforts are NOT going to work, that you are going to change and become your true self regardless of their efforts.

The final stage of course is acceptance - this may or may not include support, depending on how someone chooses to accept it (if they are worth keeping around, they will want to be part of your life, if they don't, they are not willing to make the shift in perception to meet you there).

However, not everyone goes through this process at the same pace - as Trey's family situation illustrates, some people get stuck at certain stages (and it sounds to me like Trey's family are still kind of stuck in a very reactive place, coming out of denial/isolation (but still a little bit there, as evidenced by the fact that they have chosen to isolate themselves from Trey) and into anger (as shown by the fact that they want to punish Trey for transitioning because it's not how THEY want him to be, so they are withdrawing their love and support and pretty much only offering it on condition that he goes back to life on THEIR terms.

Sometimes people can get stuck in certain stages for years at a time, sometimes they never move on from one stage and continue to try to take it out on the person causing the grief for a long time (this applies to my family situation). And when you are going through a grieving process of your own of sorts, dealing with the reactions of family members and trying to make your way through transition, it can be very tough.

Superficial things like buying make-up and changing fonts or things on facebook don't say "serious" to most people, which is probably at least something to do with why you have the whole "meh, don't care" thing going on from those around you at this point - at this stage, to them it's still a game, still something that can be easily headed off and stopped. But once the changes are more obvious and permanent things (like from hormones), it becomes more confronting for them to have to deal with because they can't change those kinds of things.

Anyway....apologies for the teal deer lol....I am not a psychologist, just a psychology student, can you tell? ;)

[SirTrey]

However, not everyone goes through this process at the same pace - as Trey's family situation illustrates, some people get stuck at certain stages (and it sounds to me like Trey's family are still kind of stuck in a very reactive place, coming out of denial/isolation (but still a little bit there, as evidenced by the fact that they have chosen to isolate themselves from Trey) and into anger (as shown by the fact that they want to punish Trey for transitioning because it's not how THEY want him to be, so they are withdrawing their love and support and pretty much only offering it on condition that he goes back to life on THEIR terms.

Right on the money, Dan....exactly. The problem there is, if they ever did move forward to acceptance, and wanted Me to come back and BE part of the family, after all of this, how COULD I? The sad answer is, I couldn't because when people kick you at a time like this, how can you ever trust them again? They are missing the toughest, yet best time of My life by their own choosing....That makes Me question if they ever really cared about Me (or, if they even REALLY care about each other, beyond the surface level)....I sometimes think about criminals, even serial killers....Their families/friends many times stick by them and visit them in jail regardless of what they have done because they love the person and try to see what good there is there....I have committed no crime here....In fact, I tried to provide information, give people thier chance to grieve....tried like hell to help people to deal with this because I never thought it would be easy for them to accept this....but, they are ashamed....It's easier to put Me out of thier lives than it is to tell people and to have to deal with the shame of having a "freak" in their family (pretty much exactly how My mother put it to Me when she explained to Me why the family thought it was "best" that I just "go away and live My life without them, if that's what I choose to do")....and I know I am not the only one on this board who deals with people's narrow-mindedness and ignorance when it comes to this issue....and, yes, it hurts....but you deal with it because you have to....Dan, I know YOU deal with a lot of similar things with your family, we have discussed it many times....I have chosen to create a NEW family with hand-selected people who have shown that they genuinely do care and want to be a part of My life....Blood doesn't always mean love and support, very often it does not....Sad, but true.

[pickles]

Yep, you got it in one, pickles - that's exactly what happens ;) It's a very similar process to the stages of grief, because in a sense, those around us have to grieve the loss of the person they thought they knew.

.....

Anyway....apologies for the teal deer lol....I am not a psychologist, just a psychology student, can you tell? ;)

Great post! Why is it all the transpeople I see eye-to-eye with are t-dudes and I'm an adult male wanting to be a little girl? It think it's that I'm a Pickle. We need a special forum for Pickles.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Trey and Dan you guys make a great subtle point that when we "out" ourselves

a.) people can be confused and hurt and feel great loss
b.) they need time and space and info to figure it out
c.) then you find out what people are made of

My experience so far, and its early, is that i have enjoyed total "support" but many people just kinda have stopped returning my emails and calls...others have really stepped up..they'll be my friends, the others wont...i loved trey's point that it makes you wonder about all friendships and what they are really based on.... I am so sorry that you had to hear words like that from your mom, but I hope over time you find that she cares about YOU and figures out a way to be good mom to you

I think pickles (i'll join your personal forum:drink:), you have literally just begun to cross that line and as karen points out there is alot more to it...believe me people will care.

i hope you are realistic about what you are doing and that if you get serious about it, you may find that as you push further there is more reaction than you expect.

[Emma26]

1) I just told my mom. Her reaction was basically "Oh dear." She even cleaned my apartment with all my girly stuff in it. The next day she went back to asking me if she could buy me some new clothes (guy ones)....

My mom is the same way. She said she would be supportive, but instead she acts like I never told her anything. It is really annoying.

I hate going clothes shopping with her. I even said I wanted girl's pants and she ignored my request and bought me pants that she said were unisex. (even though they're in the men's section. >_>)

I've been unisex for too long. I am so sick of this. People are either too oblivious or don't care when I wear girl's pants. (I have my own that mom doesn't know about. I just wanted to get some with her approval so I could stop hiding.) So it's not like it's such a big deal for me to switch over to women's pants there.

She won't even let me have the least bit of feminine pajama pants. I really just want to cry. T_T

[pickles]

Like mister daniel said the first step is denial. That's where your mom's at right now. Just keep talking to her about it when you have problems.

[Angel.Marie76]

When I started coming out to my friends last hallows, and have been slowly but surely explaining to the ones willing to listen that, gee, this isn't really just a phase and, yeah, I'm seriously moving towards doing things to my body that /aren't/ reversible.. For the most part I've been getting positive reactions, though a few were already starting to question me. I've not done those simpler things as you've noted - flagging my profiles online or starting broadcasting out loudly 'HEY! I'm TRANS!', but I've been slowly but surely inching my way farther out of the closet. Attending the local PRIDE march was a big step for me, standing out in a crowd like that, though likely many people would not know it was me just because they didn't know to expect me..

Regardless, when I started to talk to my best male friend that knows about electrolysis and laser, he was a bit shocked that I was going to take it that far (for now, of course) but that, of course, he would be supportive. I've told several others as well, these are, though, other supportive friends that I knew were already comfortable with LGBT environments, so for them it's still going to be a significant change, but one they're already familiar with to some extent in knowing others (specifically CDers and LGB folks that I know of quickly). I've seen the worried look on at least one of their faces when I was talking to them, and surely, they're trying to be supportive. The reality of it is simple though - these people have never known and/or have not dealt with a person transitioning right before their eyes. They're allowed to express worry, concern, understanding (or lack thereof), and so on.

A lot of how people 'take it', that is, coming out about transitioning or just things like CDing in general, is based on your own personality exposure to THEM. I know I've read on several other's threads about, and on plenty of other web sites and texts, that, if you've a habit of picking up new 'hobbies' (which, believe me, I'm not one to align dressing or transitioning with hobbies, but I hope you get my meaning) and dropping them after whatever time period, then people are not always likely to take to your dressing or gender presentation as much more than that, a hobby. I can tell you that a few of my ex-GFs have known that I've dabbled in dressing for many years now, and even my ex-wife allowed/encouraged me to dress around the house... so, coming out to them was more of a 'Ah HA!' or 'Figured, it's about time, silly!' and so on..

My tagline at the end of my sig says it about as clearly as I can, if transitioning, presenting as an alternative gender, etc. is right for you, then your comfort level with yourself will show those around you that this isn't just a phase, and that you're surely intent on committing to this path. The rest, as cheesy as it sounds, is just a matter of time.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Or as the great Jim Morrision said...

On one of the fence is life
On the other side of the fence is death
I straddle the fence...

My balls hurt

Of course, he ended up on the dead side...

:D

[Diane24]

I "came out" so gradually over a period of time (freshman year of college) that I guess no one really noticed. A few of the PE jocks made a few snide remarks, but the music and drama people were very accepting. Store clerks in a college town are used to college kids dressed "funny" and all they are interested in is a sale, so they never acted wierd towards me. When I finally announced to my friends that I was transitioning, for the most part they either thought I already had or I was really a girl anyway.

Family was a different matter. They noticed! Mom was a lttle upset. I never told my father. (He passed away before I graduated and started my RLT.) Aunts, Uncles and Cousins had mixed reactions. Some ignore me, others are still close to me. C'est la vie!

Yes, I got funny looks and stares from time to time. I think it's best to just smile and keep going. Ignore the nonbelievers. Hold your head high and believe in yourself!

Love,
Diane

[GypsyKaren]

Yes, I got funny looks and stares from time to time. I think it's best to just smile and keep going. Ignore the nonbelievers. Hold your head high and believe in yourself!

Love,
Diane

I think that this sums it up so well that it should be taught in schools, thank you.

Karen :g2:

[Stlalice]

Both Trey and Dan are dead on in their comments here. Once friends and family figure out that you are really serious about transition, then you will find out who really accepts and supports you. My own experience has been that most will "distance" themselves from you lest what you are doing be contagious. Indeed, since I came out a few years ago, most of my former "support structure" of friends/family has all but completely changed - I'm still in sporadic contact with some of them via email - but only a couple of them fully accept and support what I'm doing. In many ways this loss has been mitigated by new friends that only know me as Alice. One thing I've made a point of though - any break in our status as friends and/or family is by their choice and if they later decide to accept what I'm doing they know how/where to find/contact me. The best advice I can give is to expect that this will be the case and be ready to deal with it when and as it happens. It may not be any easier this way but at least it won't be a surprise. :2c:

[Emma26]

Like mister daniel said the first step is denial. That's where your mom's at right now. Just keep talking to her about it when you have problems.

Well she's been in that stage for five years now...

(BTW, we live in the same state. I've even been to Norman a few times. =P)

[pickles]

How old are you?


Well she's been in that stage for five years now...

(BTW, we live in the same state. I've even been to Norman a few times. =P)

Well, the first step is always, ALWAYS starting counciling. Are you doing that?

[Emma26]

How old are you?

20.


Well, the first step is always, ALWAYS starting counciling. Are you doing that?

I believe that my mom is in complete and total denial and wouldn't even want me in counseling. Despite being 20, I do not drive so I have no independence. =/

But this topic isn't about me...