Lost my brother

[AmberDay]

My mom was forced to quit her job the other day and yesterday my brother and I came over to have lunch with her to cheer her up. I ended up having it out with my brother.

I can’t remember everything that was said, but this is the just of it. Although it isn't word for word the event went as follows:
(Religion was brought up in this argument, but it was used against my crossdressing. I’m not starting a religious debate.)

As we were eating, my younger brother confronted me about my crossdressing.
“I can’t stop thinking about how you are a crossdresser.”
“What do you mean?”
“What you do is wrong.”
“I still don’t understand what you mean.”
My brother is trying to find the words to say when my mom pipes in, “He means that we don’t like that you crossdress. Can’t you quit?” My brother nods with my mom. I roll my eyes because I have had this argument a dozen times before.
“No, I can’t quit. I won’t.”
My mom replies, “aren’t you seeing a therapist?”
“I was, but I reached the end of all the help he can give me. There isn’t a cure for crossdressing, I told you guys that. And besides, I don’t want to quit.”
“You could if you really wanted too.” My brother snaps.
“No, I can’t. I was born this way, I was always this way. If they came out for a cure for crossdressing I would REFUSE the ‘treatment.’”
My mom is shocked, “You have a wife and kids, and you wouldn’t get a cure? Maybe you should go back to your therapist again.”
“My therapist pointed out that there isn’t anything wrong with me and I am normal.”
“Jason, what you do isn’t normal!” my brother yells.
“Hey if it bothers you guys so bad, maybe you should seek some therapy. I’m not the one having a problem here.”
“You’ll have a problem when you are in hell!”
“I’m saved and it was my understanding that if I am saved that my name is in the book.” <he is a baptist while I am non denominational>
“I talked to my pastor and other members of my church and they said you are going to hell because that is where all the gays (he didn’t say that word, but a more derogatory one that I don’t like to say nor write) go!”
“Well according to my church; they scanned the Bible, and there isn’t anything Jesus said about crossdressers. They told me Jesus loves EVERYBODY and theorize that murder, rape, lying, stealing would concern God more than me shaving my legs and wearing a dress, and besides I told you a hundred times that I AM NOT GAY!” I finally start getting irate.
“You wear girls clothes which means you are gay.”
“I’m not attracted to men. At all. I married a WOMAN for crying out loud!”
“Gay people marry women so they can look normal.”
“I am pretty open about my crossdressing, so why would I hide being gay? If I were gay why would I get married and have kids when they would interfere with my gay lifestyle?”
My brother stays quiet and just glares at me.
I ask him, “What would happen if your son ends up being gay or ‘worse’ a crossdresser?”
“He won’t be gay and he won’t be a crossdresser.”
“You never know how he will turn out.”
“I’LL MAKE SURE HE ISN’T GAY!” he screams, “You know, Jason I don’t think we can be brothers anymore.”
I sit there thinking that I should be hurt but for some reason I’m not.
“Well, I’m not going to apologize for me being me. It is your choice that you don’t want to be my brother anymore. We have been brothers for the last 26 years. We’ve had each other’s back, and stood up for each other……. Like brothers should. You can tell me that we aren’t brothers, but I will tell you that you will ALWAYS be my brother. I’m not going to apologize to you for me being a crossdresser, and I am not going to call you to come back. If you want to be my brother again, give me a call and we can go fishing. I forgive you, and I love you.” My brother sits there for a few more minutes and gets up and leaves.
So I’m sitting there thinking that I should be crying or sulking, or something, but for some reason, I feel just fine. I just lost a brother and I don’t feel bad. I love him so much, but I guess it just hasn’t hit me yet. It could be to, that I don’t feel bad because I know he is 100% in the wrong. I never dressed around him or his family and never had any intent to. He knew that. I guess I justify it that I shouldn’t be sad for being me. That is like him being mad at me because I have brown hair, or him being mad at me because I was born with blue eyes, or him being mad because I have freckles. I was born this way. I don’t know why, but God made me this way. I don’t feel bad about that at all.
My mom tries to cheer me up by saying that although she “doesn’t like that I crossdress but loves me unconditionally.” She “wants me to be open to the idea of maybe getting ‘cured’ someday.” While I am glad my mother loves me unconditionally it hurts that she doesn’t accept me. Weird, huh? I feel almost nothing when my brother walks away but I leave my mom in tears after what she said about getting cured.


Amber

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I'm sorry you lost your brother and your mother wishes you to be cured of... well, being you.

I'm only out to my wife currently. I've been tossing around the idea of telling my immediate family members. I grew up in a very religious home. I never really fit in with my family well - they never quite understood me and I never really felt like part of the family. If/when I come out to them and I face rejection, it honestly doesn't matter much. I don't see much of them and only chat with them occasionally (usually via e-mail or quick phone call).

For me, to loose a family member or friend because of who I am is really no loss at all. If someone can't accept me as I am, then they are really not worth my time. Although I would try to enlighten them as to what it really means to be a cd (as in it's just me, and not some disease or illness), I would not take it hard if they did not accept me. I just wouldn't be too upset about someone who would try to "correct me" or say anything negative about me because of the way God made me.

I love who I am. If family cannot love me as I am, that's their problem. I've got life to live and that is where my concentration will be.

Good luck with your family, Amber, whatever it is you choose to pursue with them. Never loose faith in who you are. Be strong and proud of yourself - anyone who does not accept you as you are is probably not worth your time either... even family. But sometimes just the passage of time can open minds and hearts a little. Don't take this as an absolute failure with your family. Maybe in time, they'll begin to understand a bit more, or at least decide to accept you. :)

[GaleWarning]

Hi Amber

“My therapist pointed out that there isn’t anything wrong with me and I am normal.”

You are correct, insofar as my next comment goes ...

“Jason, what you do isn’t normal!” my brother yells.

None of us is truly normal. There must be something that your brother does, which is unusual. Each of us is an individual, different from everyone else, unusual in some sense.

“Hey if it bothers you guys so bad, maybe you should seek some therapy. I’m not the one having a problem here.”

This is ABSOLUTELY correct. Anyone who has attended an anger management course will know that you are taught, in any conflict situation, to ask yourself, "Who owns the problem?"

You have, in my view, correctly perceived that it is your brother who has a problem with the situation, not you.

The next step is for you to decide whether you are simply going to walk away from his problem, or help him solve it. For the moment, it seems you are content to wait and see what happens ...

Seems right to me. I pray that you and he will be reconciled in time.

[TJ Tresa]

I hate to hear you lost your brother that way. I too am a Babtist and God and I are OK with my crossdressing, In fact I had prayed that he would let me find someone who could accept me and put up with me and I meet my wife two days later. So I currently don't believe that God has a problem with it, If he did, (beinga Christian yourself you'll know) he would through the HOly Spirit bring me under conviction, ( which he hasn't)
I hope that someday your brother will come to accept you for who you are. Best wishes.

[Shelly67]

Let the dust settle . Step back , breathe slowly and try to be strong . This is a raw and unsettled time . Don,t be afraid. Be you . You are doing nothing wrong . I think after the anger has subsided , your brother will reflect on the subject and hopefully remember how horrid the situation has become . If theres one thing I personally won't allow its a break down between my brother and I , no matter what goes on , or beliefs . We only have a short time together , I,ll accept everyone has beliefs , but I think its farsicle to let them control and ruin the time we do share together .They are history . And that as far as I,m concerned goes for everyone I know .
If only folk could try to understand , we stupidly let the past into our lives and dictate it . Surely is,nt it better to try and gain ground in harmony ? No matter what the problem or issue is ? Ultimatums and inducing guilt are not the answear to anything . They are a retaliation act , performed in fear .
Its the same old trouble once again . Communication . Listening without prejudice , speaking without anger . Its a shame that sometimes people refuse or simply cannot understand situations because of denial and fear .
Regardless of belief , we all have had a time in our lives when we simply cannot be heard . I really hope you can get over this together .

As for my interprtations towards religions I hope its understood I have no problem with any persons beliefs .

I would think you're brother is feeling as hurt as you do . Why not pick up the phone , just tell him you love him .


Good luck , take care

[MAJESTYK]

I'm sorry about the argument and it's outcome. Sometimes people "doth protest too much". I often wonder what it is that people who react this way fear? Is it merely a reaction to the unknown or is it a reaction to themslves. I especially hate it when some people "hide" behind their interpretations of the "good" book.
It's a shame when family would go against family for the sake of what others may think of them for accepting what "isnt normal".
Again, I'm sorry that they cant accept you for being you. Their loss I suppose.

[occdresser]

This is the very reason hat I could never bring any of my crossdressing up to my family. I know there would be blood.

[Georgia Rose]

It is sad to "lose" a brother especially as he appears to be your only brother. People hide behind religion for all sorts of reasons. I'm not a religious person but I believe in God. From my experiences of life I have come to the conclusion that God doesn't care if you're religious or not, if you go to church or not God is there for everyone.

Many people fear what they don't understand and see it as some threat to them or possibly your brother has CD feelings or some other "not normal" urges and has to find someone to blame.

Hang in there. Hopefully he will see the light in time.

[Dressing Jill]

Hi Amber

He may have had some gay thoughts or even acted out on them.

It seems that he is covering up his act in front of mom and using you to do so.

You seem to be very sound in who you are. Enjoy your family, wife and kids, As they are priceless. And need you. They don't need they BS you mom and brother dished out to you. Protect them and be your self.

Hugs

Jill

[Sheila]

hun I am sorry your briother is angry, hurt and confused, giver it time he may make that call, he may not but he just may. i hurts like hell when family reject you I know :hugs:

You are right you cannot allow yourself to be made to feel guilty for being you, chin up it can get better :hugs:

[Di]

I am sorry :hugs:
Do not take it to heart they are speaking from ignorance ( I am not saying they are ignorant I mean from not being informed) Is there anyway they would read some of the material out there or maybe go to your therapist with you?

[Nicole Erin]

Don't they have anything better to worry about than how another adult lives his/her life?

We all have family members that annoy us but the best thing is to just not bother them about it.

About not feeling bad when he was like "...can't be brothers..." probably just cause maybe you 2 were not that close to begin with?

[Teri Jean]

Amber,
I to lost my younger brother for many years but it was over a wood splitter and not CDing. We did not talk or hang out for over fifteen years. But today we are best friends and hang out regularly. The point I'm trying to say is this may pass in time and you have a very possitive approach with forgiveness and love. Hang in there and time will tell.

Keli

[Sandra]

Sorry to hear about this. As others have said give it time and hopefully he'll just contact you.

:hugs:

[Daintre]

I am sorry to hear what has happened. Many things are said out of anger and frustration. Give your brother some time to cool down and see that a world without his brother is a lonelier one than one with him in it.

[Jacquilynne]

Amber,

Wow!! I am so sorry that had to happen to you chica. It seems to really hit home with me, as this is a very similar conversation I had with my mother when I first told her. . . she blasted me with all those comments and more. But in the end like you mom she said she loves me and always will but she also said she will NOT accept my crossdressing!

I've outed myself to other siblings with mixed reactions and I know some other family members would not be accepting as well. So I do feel for you. . .A lot! I recently lost my wife and kids as she was only tolerant for a short time and then suddenly left. . .telling me by text message.

So I understand losing someone you care deeply about. And like has been said, just let the dust settle and maybe in time they will begin to at least open up to you as family. . .that doesn't necessarily mean they will accept you but they are family so given time they may reconsider their harsh comments . . .maybe. But they may NEVER accept us as crossdressers.

Keep the faith, and stay the course if it is His will, things WILL get better.

[Lorileah]

please accept my sympathy in your loss. One would hope that one day the light will come on an they will realize that "blood is thicker than water" ( and you can incorporate that into the Christian ideology). Short of murder or rape, I could never see me disassociate myself from a brother, probably not even a cousin. And even in murder and rape they would be my family although I may not like them.

These types of posts always pierce me in the heart. How someone you should love and someone who loves you can be so obstinate. How they can take a position from a person who is interpreting the writings of people who may or may not have even said something as it has been passed down (play the telephone game). You don't mention what you were having at dinner but if he was eating pork or certain seafood, he was guilty of violating the same laws he had placed upon you. I hope that neither one of you have to rethink this conversation because you lose someone close to you for real in the near future before you can reconcile it between you. Life can be short. Family should be forever. Hate is not a family value. You can at least in your heart still love him and hopefully he will come around and get back to loving you also.

[Carly D.]

Your brother is mad, he's still your brother.. when there's a crisis of family or whatever you turn to family first to get you through it, and he will be there for you.. I don't get how people put so much into cross dressing and the "evils" therein.. I know I am afraid that this could be the conversations I could possibly have with family members if I were to come out.. however I think even if I told them or they found out somehow that I would still leave my cross dressing to be done on my terms and not include them, unless they really felt at ease with it.. if you cross dress most of the time they might feel intimidated by your sudden need to show this side of yourself.. you have to take into consideration the way they feel.. if you insist on being in these clothes all the time then they will try to bully you into stopping.. you will alienate your family as well as your friends if this is the way you want to be.. you will have to start from square one on your friends and have to rebuild your family as well.. this will be tough sledding.. good luck bro...

[vivianann]

I am sorry you had to experience that kind of behavior from your brother, and your mother. I am a religious person and what I see with alot of so called religious peaple is they do not get the true meaning of what Jesus tought when he was here on the earth. You seem to understand the true meaning of what Jesus taught. Unfortunately some preachers use judgementalism and hatred in their preaching, which causes peaple to look at other peaple with hatred in their heart for a percieved sin that they think someone is committing. Clothing was created by man, and has evloved to what we wear today. It is not a sin for a man to wear a dress, just as it is not a sin for a woman to wear mens pants and shirts. What your brother did to you that day was a sin, because he was being judgmental, he broke the commandment "Thou sall not judge" He will not go to hell for what he did that day, but he will be judged on that great and dreadful day of judgement for that incident unless he repents before he dies.
I believe you handled that situation correctly, and by standing up for your self, and your convictions. We all know there is no cure for crossdressing, and no matter how much counseling we get, our desires to dress how we want to will not change. I would suggest you work with your mother if you can and find her a book that talks about crossdressing in a positive manner.
We are all sinners and Jesus loves us all, I would suggest you tell you mother and brother if you can, " He who is without sin let him cast the first stone" their preacher needs to hear that phrase over and over again, because he too is NOT without sin.
Take care my friend, and God bless you and your family.
:hugs: Vivian

[AmberDay]

[QUOTE=Carly D.;1706550] if you cross dress most of the time they might feel intimidated by your sudden need to show this side of yourself.. you have to take into consideration the way they feel.. QUOTE]


see that is just it, I NEVER dressed around them not once, and that is one of the first things that I told them I wasn't going to do when I informed them that I was a crossdresser. They have no idea what I look like in femm.


My wife points out that this is why I shouldn't have told my family. But even going through all this I have no regrets. Family should be Family, regardless of what I am. That is what I am going to teach my children. Family is important and should love and respect each other no matter what the other turns out to be. Although I am not going to tell my kids that I crossdress, I am going to teach them to be tolerant and accepting of other people regardless of what they are. You stick with family no matter what, even if that means having a member with an 'alternate' lifestyle.


Amber

[SherriePall]

Amber -- I'm so sorry to hear about your problems with your family. Unfortunately, I think they are basing their understanding on one passage which many people don't delve into the historical context to see that it does not strictly forbid crossdressing. And, here we go again, if people want to use that scripture, then they had better be prepared for the women to give up wearing pants and T-shirts and sneakers and ....

I'm sure he will someday seek you out and ask for your forgiveness!

[ReineD]

Amber, I'm sorry that your brother feels this way. Maybe the words were said in the heat of the moment and his love for you will prevail in the end. It is sad when people use religion to justify their fears or their ignorance. It is scary when religions cannot acknowledge scientific fact or that everyone on this planet is a child of the God of their faith.

Kudos to you for responding to him in the loving way that you did. Your conscience is clear.
:love:

[Ralph]

Wow, Amber. You just summed up the entire reason I will never, ever come out to anyone but my wife and kids - that's exactly the conversation I fear. Sorry it was so rough for you.

ralph

[Carly D.]

[QUOTE=Carly D.;1706550] if you cross dress most of the time they might feel intimidated by your sudden need to show this side of yourself.. you have to take into consideration the way they feel.. QUOTE]


see that is just it, I NEVER dressed around them not once, and that is one of the first things that I told them I wasn't going to do when I informed them that I was a crossdresser. They have no idea what I look like in femm.


My wife points out that this is why I shouldn't have told my family. But even going through all this I have no regrets. Family should be Family, regardless of what I am. That is what I am going to teach my children. Family is important and should love and respect each other no matter what the other turns out to be. Although I am not going to tell my kids that I crossdress, I am going to teach them to be tolerant and accepting of other people regardless of what they are. You stick with family no matter what, even if that means having a member with an 'alternate' lifestyle.


Amber

Wow.. well then I am sorry.. and as well as I have never dressed in front of my family, I haven't told them and don't intend to either.. however if they were to find out some way I think I would tell them that yes in fact I do cross dress but that they won't see me dressed this way unless of course they feel like they could handle it.. "I don't want to be a girl I just want to wear their clothes".. it would be really easy to tell them ok, you win, I'll stop dressing this way and then dress anyway.. is it lying to do this? depends on how you look at it.. in my case it is simple, I am in the closet still even though I've been out dressed to some places, I don't go where they might be and I don't think they would want to see me this way at all anyway.. I can't explain why I dress this way.. I wish I could.. I have said on many posts that I wish there was a way for me to make it sound like the way it is for me.. for me cross dressing changes in meaning just about everyday when I wake up in the morning.. and the intensity of which I feel good then bad about doing this is unbelievable... why would anyone think that you are doing this as a way to enjoy life?? it can be torture.. I hope you can work things out with your family but your entry is why I don't tell anyone about my other self... good luck bro...

[TxKimberly]

Oh wow, that sucks big time. Telling my big brother was one of the scariest things I ever did. He is the uber macho type and thought he would freak. Instead he was 100% cool with it. reading your post makes me feel so very grateful for that.

I'm so sorry that your brother can not accept this. Maybe as he gets a bit older, a bit wiser, and maybe a bit more mellow, he will come back. :hugs:

[Rachel Morley]

”“I’LL MAKE SURE HE ISN’T GAY!” he screams.


It is sad when people use religion to justify their fears or their ignorance. It is scary when religions cannot acknowledge scientific fact or that everyone on this planet is a child of the God of their faith.

Exactly! I think deep down, because of his ignorance, your bother can't seem to separate crossdressing with sexual preference.

Why do people always have to bring religion into the argument? .... OK, then, if that's the case, .... seeing as how they aren't likely to come around to your way of thinking, if I was you I'd have said back to them: "do you really want to be that person who casts the first stone?" Where's the love in all of this? :(

[Diane Elizabeth]

I am so sorry for the trouble you are having with your brother understanding. From what you say your brother was going to make sure his son isn't "gay" or a "crossdresser". I would worry how he might raise him into being anti-gay. Which can tear family ties apart (as seen by your loss). I pray for your brother and family that they "will see the light".

[Jakob]

Wow I guess it really really sucks having a huge fight with your brother and him being totally hard headed about your desires and you just being yourself. I mean you dont offend or harm anyone.

And do you know what the problem is? (imo) It's the bible, this ancient book full of ridiculous laws of a god whose morality is surpassed by any human being alive.
And it's the people that preach that being gay is bad and people are going to hell for whatever they do.
It's ridic and I hope one day people can live without all that original sin bs and love and respect each other for what they are with all their good and their bad traits.

[bimini1]

He's spoken about it with the church folk and is only trying to save you from certain hellfire. Let's face it, eternity is alot longer than these few earthly years.
So in his mind that is love, to save you from yourself.

I can't tell you how many times I've had these sames types of conversations, if I had it to do over again would have nevertold mom and sis. Can't quite figure why I told in the first place, mom says it was to hurt her.

You are handling it quite well though, I will say that I need to have the same attitude as you do.

[Ruth]

What I find most sad about this is that your brother has been to some church people and they have responded that all gays will burn in hell. This is just so wrong in so many ways, it's no wonder people are turning away from religion.
Some people appear to have got into religion so that they can use its authority to back their personal twisted ideas about life. If they troubled to read the bible they would find nothing about CDing in it.
Anyway, I know that sort of thing makes it much harder and I hope that time and events will bring you and your brother back together.

[Toni_Lynn]

Amber,

I am so very sorry for what has happened between you and your brother, for similar words were inflicted upon me when I was forcibly out-ed to my family by a cousin. I am a practising Catholic and so is my family, except for my cousin who became a minister in connection with Jimmy Swaggart. As a religious person, I know that the way my crossdressing was handled in this case, by deceit, by lies, was no what a Christian should do. I found it odd that the faith upbringing that I had, nuns in grade school, Mass every Sunday, --- the same things that the rest of my family had has a part of their faith formation -- inspired in me Christ-like love and understanding, yet resulted in hatred and sin being committed in His name by my family and cousin.

What troubles me so much is threat of: “I’LL MAKE SURE HE ISN’T GAY!” he screams., for I can envision true sins being commited against his son to save him from being a crossdresser.

Pray for your brother, pray for the future for your nephew. Pray for guidance from above.

Just as my faith in our Lord Jesus Christ lead me out of the darkness and despair of that hurt, so too shall He lead you.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Faith_G]

Amber-

Reading your post really hits close to home for me. I made the leap of coming out to my family about 18 months ago and not everyone took it well. My Dad reacted much like your mother, not fully accepting but not wanting to sever relations. Relations with my brother are still strained, mainly because his wife reacted very badly. He tries but I know it's hard for him because his wife does not approve. I fear that someday she will force him to choose and I'll lose him entirely.

I wouldn't count on your brother making the first step towards healing this rift. If you want to salvage the relationship, be prepared to reach out rather than waiting.

[Lisa LIckorice]

I'm soooo sorry! That must be horrible! I hope that they grow to understand that dressing isn't by choice. Good luck sister!

[sashay2323]

its not husband and wife relation u make in church or court. its a blood relation brother and brother . no divorce at all is possible here. yur mother should know u all r her product and should be proud sooner or later . no one can deny yur relation even god . god had plan for u for both how u both r going to be. cuz he creates us. so just see he will be sorry soon . sorry my english isnt that good pls dont remove my this posting like last one. i m a girl too born in boy body . have same feelings like u all who r here to share with each other . hope everu one understand me what i mean or i will stop psoting anything here

[AmberDay]

I want to thank everyone for giving their time to reply to my thread. I love this site and the support I recieve. I will always be amazed how people from all around the world who use this site will support each other over trans issues, without even meeting! Thank you so much everyone! You have no idea how much that means to me.:)

I do hope that things will get better between my brother and I. Maybe in time it will. I miss him already, but I won't sacrifice myself to make him happy.

Much love,

Amber

[Carly D.]

Oh wow, that sucks big time. Telling my big brother was one of the scariest things I ever did. He is the uber macho type and thought he would freak. Instead he was 100% cool with it. reading your post makes me feel so very grateful for that.

I'm so sorry that your brother can not accept this. Maybe as he gets a bit older, a bit wiser, and maybe a bit more mellow, he will come back. :hugs:

I think of telling my older brother about my cross dressing all the time but just can't.. he's not overly "I am man, hear me" type at all.. he is part of a motorcycle (gang.. er rather troupe or whatever they call themselves now) and talks about this one member that is "actually quite sensitive once you get to know him".. hu, and all this time he's only ever shown his a**hole side, who'd a thunk the big lug is a sensitive a**hole with a heart.. anyway what I am trying to say is there are those I think would just say hu, and that would be it.. the closer you are, and my brother and me (should be I but that's me) are close and have been close since we were younger.. I don't know how he would react all these years later and I'm not sure but HE MIGHT ALREADY KNOW... but I don't want to find out the hard way..

[DonnaT]

If your brother should start up again, and remain negative, play the God card.

Something like:

I've prayed to God for direction, and he gave it to me. He told me everything is fine, and he made me this way in my mother's womb. His acceptance lead to me being accepting of myself, which gave me strength to tell you. If God had told me different, than I never would have let anyone else know about me. Since God is my Lord and Judge, your judgement is misplaced and contrary to the bible's teaching of 'judge not'.

Matthew 7:1
Luke 6:37
James 4:10-12

[Suzy Harrison]

Yeah - what's the matter with you ? - All you have to do is snap out of this and everything will be alright (for them anyway)

Oh yes, and if you don't, then it's straight to hell for you my dear - because you must be evil or something !

I just love it when the religious types are so loving and understanding - it makes you realise why we have religion in the first place - doesn't it?

Don't worry, you have hundreds of thousands of us all over the world, supporting and thinking of you :love:

[Hope]

Ugh.

With brothers like that, who needs enemies?

Maybe you don't feel bad, because - well - why would you feel bad when someone tells you they are going to stop beating you up? Family members get get an extra measure of tolerance - but that needs to go both ways.

As for the "going to hell" BS - let me say, as a member of the clergy, as a person with the authority to make it so: You are not going to hell.

[Fab Karen]

How someone you should love and someone who loves you can be so obstinate. How they can take a position from a person who is interpreting the writings of people who may or may not have even said something as it has been passed down (play the telephone game).
Worse than that actually, it has been re-written throughout history to suit the whims of kings & church-leaders.

Good going Dayton girl, you kept your head & didn't let it get to you- your therapist might tell you, don't try to argue with crazy people. Jesus didn't teach hatred- sadly there are alleged christians who ignore this.