Job interviews with your desired gender expression

[ria_ts]

How would you go about interviewing for jobs during transition?

What's your perspective on this subject?

[deja true]

I'm thinking that as long as you have not started transitioning yet, and do not have "official documentation" in your female name, that you should not interview or submit resumes in that name. You are essntially not being totally truthful. Even if companies that you interview with have gender friendly policies, they probably would not take kindly to an apparently falsified application. It could be a justification to let you go in future no matter how good your performance is.

But you should bring up the possibility of your desire to transition on the job at that first meeting with the HR person.

Your chances of getting that second interview are probably not good without any reccomendations from previous employers. And they (The previous employers) don't need to know now about your transition plans since you have left them. Your future employers can be asked not to bring that subject up when they check those references.

We continually make the point of being up front with wives and SO's. It seems to me to be just as important with potential employers if you know you're headed that way. You will be spending just as much time (maybe more) on the job as you will at home. And you do want that to go smoothly, yes?

Just my 2 ducats...:)

[Shikyo]

You really should not use a name that is not yours. It's a lie and no employer will be looking nicely at that. So unless you've official had your name changed, you gotta stay with your old name. Giving a false name is not the best way to start your relationship to your employer, is it?

After you've had your name changed, just take a proof that you carried the old name and if they ask about the old documents that still carry your old name, just show that you had your name changed and there should not be any problems with it.

You won't be able to get in, if you don't have an ID with the right name. The fact that they asked for one means that the security would be tight enough to have it checked means that there is no way you'll get in there without having an ID with the right name on it.

In the interview you can reveal as much you want to. There is no wrong in telling everything or not telling much at all. It all depends on you. The same goes with skirts. However, you should pay attention to what kind of job you are applying not in all jobs can you wear skirts, so decide with some thinking what you are going to wear.

As advice: Just behave like you usually do, don't try to make up things or anything. Be yourself, if you don't you might get the job, but you will not enjoy it. Usually when you are called to an interview means that you've passed the qualifications settings they've set up, but they want to know you better. They want to know if you'd actually fit their profile of a good worker for this kind of work etc. Not to forget, be as honest as you can, it'll only help you later on.

[Eileen]

In 2007, I applied for a night audit position as Eileen, wearing a skirt and blouse. All of my previous job information was accurate. On the application one question was have you ever worked under any other name. I put my male name there, and had the question not have been asked, would have added to the application that all of my previous work was as my male name. The owner seem more concerned that I would only stay a short time than in the fact that I was TG. At the time I had not legally changed my name. Being honest and professional will be your most valuable assests.

Eileen

[Anna the Dub]

I wish I had the option of doing something like this -

One for each sex: 'Transgender' individuals to get two ID cards
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1088384/One-sex-Transgender-individuals-ID-cards.html

Not going to happen. There has to be a general election by this time next year, and I think there is no doubt that Labour are going to get trounced. The only other party who are a viable alternative, the Conservatives, have already pledged themselves to abandoning the ID card fiasco.

[Shikyo]

I appreciate your input about this.

I wish all job applications contained that option - to fill out a previous name I have used - and I wish all companies asked me to fill it out early. Things could have been smoother that way. However, for most companies in my field of work, they don't even ask you to fill that application until after they give you a job offer. After you accept the job offer, they do a background check and confirm the offer. The only form they give you to sign prior to this is a non-disclosure agreement during their on-site interview which says that you will not reveal anything you see or hear on-site on the day of your interview. On my last job, the only time I had to indicate my gender was on the date of joining when I filled out some new forms.

I've yet to see even one job application that allows to fill in the old name. In fact even in all the applications I've seen only immigration applications have asked to input the old name.

But the truth is, you can't sign with your "female" name if that's not your legal name as your signature would not be real. That creates a problem in using a feminine name without an ID.


The one issue I have with my legal ID is that my birth certificate and passport are from another country where they will not change my gender marker to female on my passport even after SRS. They agree to write something to the effect that I am not male, but they will not write that I am female. They can make that change in gender marker to the equivalent of "none" right away with letters from therapists and doctors. However, they will never write "female" for my gender. That's the rule. No arguments ... I am told.

Sounds like you are not living in the country you were born in. Many countries allow the people living there to receive an ID card if asked. A driver's license is definitely possible in all the countries.

There will be the issue of having the "m" instead of the "f" on the card, but I highly doubt a lot people will be evening looking at it that closely. In the future, assuming everything goes after my plan, I'll have two citizens ships and on one of them I'll be marked as female and on the other as male. As you live in another country, you might be eligible for applying for the countries citizenship and the name laws etc. are most likely different which might allow you to change your name and later on your gender as well.


Without that change in my passport or birth certificate, I cannot be legally considered female in my state in the US without a prolonged procedure. It seems "impossible" to get my gender marker changed on my passport. The local DMV seems more open to changing my gender marker on my license although they say it could take a little while to get that change completed because I was born abroad.

In the case of united states you have had to lived there for three years, legally, to be allowed to apply for its citizenship. If you pass the exams etc. you will be granted the citizenship of United States. With this being a step forward, you will be able to follow the local laws to have your name changed legally and depending of the state of your residence you will also be able to change the "m" to "f".


Even the name change procedure is complicated ... as per the process, I need to publish my name change ad in the local newspapers in the place I was born, then provide an application for name change along with proof of public disclosure of my name change (ie. newspaper ads), along with an approval from a local court for such name change (ie. with police and local government clearance stating that I am not changing my name to hide any crime) and only then they would review my application for name change on my passport. They don't care if the new name sounds more male or female. They just need me to follow this process. Once that process is completed, I would need to show my passport with a changed name to the local DMV for a name change on my local drivers license. I am talking about a 6-8 month process. I will need a job before that.

This made me feel really lucky about being able to change my name with just one e-mail and sending the application and pay the fee. I wish it would be easier for our dear sisters, though. Not just the lucky ones who happen to live in a country where it's easy to have one's name changed.


My first name and my gender expression are the only "lies", about which I hope to come out to the HR managers. I just do not know the conventions on this coming out process at the company level.

Honestly, I still think it might be better to apply with your male name and then explain the situation to the HR and that you would like to work under a different name because of you'd like to live and work as a woman. With this kind of approach I think they might more eager to accept it, instead if you "lie" in the applications itself. It's not about how big of a lie it is, but more so that there was a misinformation on the applications there might be more than that.


If that doesn't work, I will probably just go to my interviews as a guy and go to work as a guy and never talk about the whole gender thing until a year or two later when everything else is in place. That will be extremely painful, but I guess it will be the best option I have. I've waited for 3 decades for transition, I could wait a couple more years to go full-time (although I am full-time now). Or I could come out at work a few months after joining and go through all of the stuff that goes with "coming out" at work. I was hoping to avoid that coming out process by using my current lay off to transition into a new job in my desired gender expression.

Never give up hope. It might take long but hard work is really something that will make the trouble worth while, especially in our case.

[Shikyo]

Five years, not three. Also you have to be here for five years as a permanent resident, not just someone who has "lived" here for five years. And getting permanent residence takes many years too, depending on which country you were born.

Hups, I made a small mistake in this one as I'm married to a citizen of US, so I only remembered the three years. It seems it really was only for people who have gotten are married. So five years indeed.

You are looking for a job, so that means you have the right to work there. As you already are in the US, you can't have the working permit, but a green card and green card shows that you are a permanent resident. So I take it you have not lived there long enough to apply?


I am exploring a similar option, perhaps one step further beyond what you suggest ... I asked an HR manager if I could apply with my legal name but if everyone could refer to me with my female name during interviews and after being offered a position. I am still waiting for her response. It's been 5 business days. I am wondering if I asked something totally ridiculous. I sent another email today as a reminder. No response yet. We'll see.

Asking is always good, but you really should do it via the phone, not per e-mail. E-mails will be ignored rather easily, especially if they bring more trouble with them. On the phone or face to face it is going to be a lot harder to avoid the question. They'll are also more likely to give a positive answer to your request.


The other issue is that HR managers of most companies are not even available to talk with before the interview day. The recruiters, who are merely resume traders/swappers, first contact you and set up everything. I once told a recruiter that I am transgender and she began to laugh over the phone; they are not trained about such sensitive matters and I do not expect them to understand. I was able to contact this particular HR manager whom I emailed today through a top manager I know in that company.

That is always the problem. That is why I'd just wait until I have a job interview before I start to explain the situation. This way you'll be able to talk to the one who actually does the interview and you will avoid confusing the stuff in the place where you are wanting to work.

[Shikyo]

So would you go to the interview as a girl and explain during the interview why your name sounds male but you look female? How is that not confusing? I would guess it would be disconcerting to the interviewer, at least during the first few minutes of the interview, and a distraction too from your interview itself. First impressions matter a lot!

I've gone to interviews as a girl while I was still wearing my old name. My old name was not even unisex, not to forget they also had knowledge of my sex before I went there. They did not even ask any questions or anything about it. I was planning to explain everything to them, but there was no need as they never asked about it. It will only be confusing if you make a big deal out of it. If you just explain it, if they ask there should be no problems at all.


In my occupation, we often have 6-8 interviewers on-site who talk with us on our interview day. I would need to explain to each one of them why there's this discrepancy in the gender reflected by my name and the gender reflected in my appearance. At the end of my interview day, when all of my interviewers discuss about me, the thing they will all have in common to discuss about me would be my gender expression and what I told all of them in my explanation of the discrepancy.

You will have the same situation if you give them first a false name. There is no wait out from explaining, if they are curious or even bother to ask about it.


Even if I go there as male, I still look feminine, which I have found throws off people. Many people probably assume I am gay. I don't know which one is worse ... transphobia or homophobia. I guess it depends on the person.

It indeed does throw people off, I'm well aware of that as it happens to me as well. In the case of interview I don't really think they are going to assume you are gay or anything. They'll be surprised but continue with the interview just like with everyone else.


In both cases (me interviewing as female with a male name, and me interviewing as male with a male name), the way I look would become the highlight of my interview, perhaps a distraction from my real talents, skills, abilities, knowledge, experiences, etc. This is the part I am trying to avoid. My goal is to get the job I like, not to parade my gender around.

Like I explained already earlier after you've gotten an invitation to an interview they think of you as a qualified person to do the job. All they now want to know is what kind of a person you are, if you suit the job they are offering.


Most interviewers cannot tell that I am transsexual when I present as female, but I am sure some of them will notice. I do not want my interview series to be side-tracked from what I can do for the company. Hence I was hoping to rope in an HR manager who could inform all interviewers early to be sensitive towards my gender expression and ask them to focus on my interview just as they would focus on any cis-gender person's interview.

Not like anyone really tell if ones transsexual, gay, a masculine female etc. They can only assume things. The same goes for people who interview other people. It's not their job to find out if someone's transsexual, they are there to find out if you fit the job.

The way you want to do this, seems very confusing to me. Why do you want to have the interview done in such complicated way? Why are you trying to complicate their job before they've even seen you?

I mean, if they are told to take special care of your transsexuality before they even see you, it will be work for them. Not to forget they will have time to get prejudice against you. You are applying for a job and you have not even gotten the job yet, but you still want to be treated special? I don't think that is the best way to apply for a job, but I guess that's just me.


I am assuming that when someone within the company, especially from HR (and especially when the company says it supports transgender employees), discusses with interviewers prior to the interview that they need to treat a particular transgender candidate well, they tend to treat the candidates better than they would without such a discussion by HR. I don't think I could explain it better on my own to each interviewer.

It could also just mean that they are fine with employing transgendered people. It does not necessary mean that you can just call them before hand and ask them to do things before the interview. I think it's more something that they will not be surprised if you appear female with a male name etc. As if they truly are accepting transgendered people that should be that they are used to being with them, so the way you would look would not be anything special for them in the end.


This is the reason I was planning to apply with my female name, discuss with HR, and get through the interviews just as a cis-gender person would have done. I just do not know if and how other people have gone about this. I really wish there were those forms to fill in "other names used". I searched websites of about 20 companies online since this morning, and only one of them had such a form with a field in which you could enter other names.

Just add your name the application. If nothing else just add it to the line with your feminine name and just put it inside () to show them that you have more than one name that you go by or something.


Once you get inside a company, there's often a concept called "call names" or "preferred names" ... you can choose any name you want, male or female or whatever else. I knew a person at my company 4 years ago who chose the name Delicious. That's what he was called!

So you could just simply apply as a guy with male name and ask them to call you by your female name. This sounds a lot more simple than anything else so far, don't you agree?

[LeannL]

Have you thought of contacting HR without revealing your name? Explain your situation and ask them what they would consider appropriate? I suspect the most important thing is getting the job and being able to express your gender secondary. I say this because you offered to go in male mode and let it go. If you ask first without identifying yourself, you loose nothing. If you get the answer you want, then you can identify yourself and go for it.

Good luck,
Leann

[Shikyo]

What was your plan? What were the things you were planning to explain? Please can you share some of the answers you had prepared to explain your gender presentation?

If they were curious about it, I was planning to tell them about my transsexuality. It's not like I'm trying to hide it or anything, it is the truth and I'll tell them the truth if they ask about it. I'll also answer all the other questions they might have about my transsexuality.


Special? Each time you are treated as a human being, not different from a cis-gender person, you are being treated special. Hmm ... interesting perspective. A heads-up to HR that I am transgender and that they "may" need to inform interviewers as appropriate is "a request for special treatment" too. Good logic. :notworthy: If I were blind or on a wheelchair, providing easy access to me would be special treatment. That's definitely true! I can see how this can be applied to a lot of things in life where we get treated specially, and not how we "deserve" to be treated.

Just think about it for a second. You send them e-mails and request you to be treated differently for no particular reasons. Myself, if I were working the HR I would never hire a person like that. We do not have any physical disabilities or anything. We can present ourselves normally without any problems. Like I said my self, I've gone to interview as a girl with a male name and I never had any problems at all. They did not even ask me why I was dressed the way I was. So I just can't understand your urge to have everything cleared up before you even are in the interview room. Making their job harder is not the way to get a job, unless you are damn good. Standing out of the group is good, if it is because of your abilities, standing out of the group because of your transsexuality is bad. From what I've understood you want to avoid standing out because of your transsexuality, but with sending them e-mails before hand you are just pointing out that you are transsexual and even want some special treatment.

Why is it so hard to just go to the interview without telling them anything before hand and answer their question if they even want to know about it. It's not even 100% sure they care about your transsexuality or the way you look at all.

[Melissa A.]

Good job, ria. I notice that when you were up front with people and asked the right questions, politely, you got results. Unfortunately, not every person out there job hunting gets to meet professionals who have been exposed to or are educated about us in some way. I have a young-ish girlfriend who is simply looking for a job, any job, to get her thru college, and for months, now, nothing. not even a callback. She passes very well, but once they learn from her, about her, or check her SS#, that's it. There's still a long way to go, unfortunately. But I'm happy for you, and wish you luck.

hugs,

Melissa :)

[Empress Lainie]

I think my problem is my age 74 rather than my gender id. My ID is female and no one I have spoken with ever thinks diffferently, but my age is impossible to hide. I have applied for around 150 jobs that I have qualifications for in the last year and hardly ever get any response.

I had one interview for an entry level position 3 months ago and they are still advertising the position. I sent them a letter stating that, I got an email from the manager she was sending my resume to HR, last I heard again.


I did spend a lovely 4 weeks with the census bureau accepted as another woman by both the women and men in my crew. No one knew I was TS.

[Jessinthesprings]

Okay... As much as you may wish, and love to go to work as a girl there is huge problem if all of your documentation is not in order. Meaning when you fill out an application, I-9, empoloyment information, you are legally obligated to entere the legal information. Meaning if your legal name is Steve or what ever and you write Eve, that is a problem. My current employer is doing background checks and if there is anything that was fasleified in the application they are being terminated. The Federal government has heafty fines for your employer too if you fill out an i-9 incorrectly, and I'm sure there has to be some legal penalty (perhaps perjury I don't know) associated with it.

That being said. I agree that transitioning on the job is rough. My suggestion for you is to do one of three things.

1.Get your information switched over. The M/F thing on the DL 9 out of 10 is not even looked at. If the name is legal you are good to go. This is not a quick solution.

2. fill out your legal information, and show up as yourself. if they ask be honest.

3. suck it up, and get the job first and transition then.

Just remember many of us have a hard enought time getting/keeping a job don't screw yourself over false information.