Where would you draw the line? Challenge #1

[GaleWarning]

OK. Some of you may have noticed that I have been very quiet for the last couple of weeks. I have been lurking, though, and thinking. Just for fun ...

Challenge #1
There is a thread over in the Media section which tells us that CDing may possibly become a reason to be declared mentally ill.

Just for fun, imagine you are the person who has to lay down the criteria which must be used to determine whether or not someone is a crossdresser and therefore mentally ill.

Try to lay them down.

They must be clear and unambiguous, so that one person can clearly be determined to be a crossdresser, and another not.

Where would you draw the line?

[MissConstrued]

Well... according to the DSM, I already have at least 8 other mental illnesses, so I'm afraid I'm not qualified to offer an opinion.

On the other hand, I could go for that psychiatry degree, which automatically qualifies me to decide what's normal and what's not, no matter how barking mad I am.

[jennCD]

I would pick up the pen,suddenly realize that I would have to declare myself mentally ill, and then put the pen back down and slowly slink out before anyone noticed me in there....


:)
jenn

[docrobbysherry]

But, just as I'm ready to start throwing them, I realize I live in a house of mirrors! If I start throwing them, I'd only end up hurting myself!:eek:

AND destroying MY OWN house!:brolleyes:

[Noxvictum]

I think I'd draw the line at having the desire to be seen in public in women's clothes, as long as the motivation is to present one's self as a female. I say in public, because it's noones damn business how crazy I am at home, save unless I'm hurting someone. But point being made, I'll take a black straightjecket, with a big red bow and a big shiny bell on the center of it.

[Gabriela]

If there is a line to be drawn, and tell who is a CD and who is not, any kind of desire/urge one would have on dressing any kind of clothe that society says belongs to the opposite sex only, should be considered.

A guy who walks on high heels at home, a girl wearing a tie, a men who underdress, and the gal who fully dress and go out passing, they are all to be considered crossdressers.

So according to this so called research, they should all (and me) be considered mentally ill, maybe on diferent levels, but ill anyway..

[Karren H]

Why draw a line??

I'd say any guy standing in front of a clearence rack of dresses, smiling...

Any guy with a Victoria Secret Angle card!!

Any man who tests positive for silicone exposer...

All men who have lost more than 2% of their body hair between monthly checks.. For any reason...

All men who stop in the makeup isle for more than 2 seconds (kind of like the 2 second food dropped on the floor rule only for perverts!! Lol).

Any male in the womens department not within 12.5 feet of their wives or SO's... Or any male with their wife or SO that is looking at clothing other that those that the wife is holding..


And the uber rule.. Every single member on crossdressers.com!!
Lock um up, DanO!!

:D

[kay2]

Where would you draw the line?

Easy - I'd draw it at the VPL.

More seriously, and I believe part of the point of this great question, is it is like the silly and horrible old race laws of South Africa - Who is black? Who is brown? Who is white?

What about a goth guy that paints his nails black? What if he chooses red - or pink? A plaid kilt is okay - but what if it is a plaid wrap-around skirt that is not an authentic Scottish kilt? Dance stores sell some brands of plain black dance shoes for men and women in women's sizes only. A sarong is okay, but what if the fabric is pink satin instead of cotton with a batik print? A toupee is really a wig with shorter hair. And for bras, we know some men naturally have larger breasts than some women.

I wear, in public, skirts, maryjanes, and scarves, and paint my nails red, and use mascara. No forms, wig, femme name. Some say I crossdress, and some say I don't. My response? I use the answer that I usually hate when my kids say it - "Whatever."

[GaleWarning]

If there is a line to be drawn, and tell who is a CD and who is not, any kind of desire/urge one would have on dressing any kind of clothe that society says belongs to the opposite sex only, should be considered.

A guy who walks on high heels at home, a girl wearing a tie, a men who underdress, and the gal who fully dress and go out passing, they are all to be considered crossdressers.

So according to this so called research, they should all (and me) be considered mentally ill, maybe on diferent levels, but ill anyway..

Mmmm ... Six responses so far and only Gabriela has picked up on a thought, which is running around my head. EVERYONE on this planet could potentially be declared mentally ill at some level!

Which is why the notion itself is insane! As are the legislators.

But to provide some pointers ...
Thinking only about mtf crossdressing (although ftm crossdressers are welcome to throw in their points of view as well) ...
1. Shall we consider the length of one's hair? If so, how long must it be to be unacceptable?
2. Shall we consider the usage of moisturisers and stuff like that?
3. Make-up?
4. Wearing a bra as a male?
5. Wearing a girdle as a male?
6. Wearing stockings as a male?
7. Wearing heels as a male?
8. How exactly would one measure the level of desire or urge (as Gabriela descibes it) to wear the clothing of the opposite sex?




More seriously, and I believe part of the point of this great question, is it is like the silly and horrible old race laws of South Africa - Who is black? Who is brown? Who is white?



Dead right, Kay! I am originally from that part of the world as well, so I appreciate your comment.

OK ... over to you lot again!
:daydreaming:

[Alice B]

I guess I'm a sick individual, but that is someone else's problem. Not mine.:heehee:

[Sarah...]

EVERYONE on this planet could potentially be declared mentally ill at some level!



Ha! Yes indeed. So if we're all mentally ill then none of us is really mentally ill. So no DSM entry, and we all get on with being alive. Next question!

Sarah xxx

[Elvira]

After reading all the views on this subject! Where can i sign up for the loony bin? Lock me up and throw away the key, but please be sure to leave me with my favourite pair of heels , dress , makeup and wigs!

[Deborah Jane]

Well as i'm a c/der, anyone who dresses in any way they like would be declared completely sane.
[Except those in the pshyciatric profession who wear white coats....They're totally nuts!!]

[Veronica 1]

OK. Some of you may have noticed that I have been very quiet for the last couple of weeks. I have been lurking, though, and thinking. Just for fun ...

Challenge #1
There is a thread over in the Media section which tells us that CDing may possibly become a reason to be declared mentally ill.

Just for fun, imagine you are the person who has to lay down the criteria which must be used to determine whether or not someone is a crossdresser and therefore mentally ill.

Try to lay them down.

They must be clear and unambiguous, so that one person can clearly be determined to be a crossdresser, and another not.

Where would you draw the line?

As the person in charge, I would have to say that anyone who does not act in a normal manner would have to be declared.
Challenge #2
Define normal.

[Lorileah]

In my world I am normal. I am the peak of the curve. Anyone who isn't like me is not normal. It's my world I refuse to comply with what anyone else believes. I only have to answer to me.

[linnea]

Why draw a line??

I'd say any guy standing in front of a clearence rack of dresses, smiling...

Any guy with a Victoria Secret Angle card!!

Any man who tests positive for silicone exposer...

All men who have lost more than 2% of their body hair between monthly checks.. For any reason...

All men who stop in the makeup isle for more than 2 seconds (kind of like the 2 second food dropped on the floor rule only for perverts!! Lol).

Any male in the womens department not within 12.5 feet of their wives or SO's... Or any male with their wife or SO that is looking at clothing other that those that the wife is holding..


And the uber rule.. Every single member on crossdressers.com!!
Lock um up, DanO!!

:D

Yep.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Everyone-

Interesting thread, for sure. IMHO, a lot of "mental illnesses" are behaviors or attitudes that are at odds with societal norms, so nearly anything could be declared a mental illness including being TG. In fact, in the old Soviet Union, dissidents were often declared to be mentally ill and locked up in asylums.

For all practical purposes mental illness kind of depends on if it makes you dysfunctional or not. If it causes distress or problems for you or for those around you, that is people around you like your spouse or family or close relatives, not just some passing bozo on the street, then you may need or want some sort of intervention. For the question under discussion on this thread, if wanting to wear women's clothes seriously upsets you then you need some help. If you're okay with it and enjoy it and the rest of your life goes along normally, then you don't need anyone's help unless it's maybe deciding if that jacket really goes along with that blouse and skirt.

Oh well, just my two cents.

Hugs...Joni Marie

[Intertwined]

Whats the deffinition of " Mentally Well "? of course that all depends on your point of view "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"


And the uber rule.. Every single member on crossdressers.com!!
Lock um up, DanO!!

:D

HEY, I am not mentally ill, I am just F.I.N.E.

Freaked out
Insecure
Neurotic &
Emotional

[GaleWarning]

I'd say that anyone who consults a psychiatist is mentally ill. Is this is just an old prejudice of mine?



As someone who once HAD to consult a psychiatrist at someone else's behest, I would say that you are, indeed, prejudiced, Katie. The only person who considered me dysfunctional was that person.

Looking back, I wonder if he wasn't the one who was deluded.
:D

[Gabriela]

As a phrase on a T-shirt here in Brasil, made by a support group for people with down sindrome states:

"Being different is normal"

[Maxi]

So what I gather here is, if you think outside the box, you are mentally ill. That kind of puts a stop to creativity. I am my own person, I refuse to be kept in the box, or the closet. Lets enjoy life. It's to short not to.

[pamela_a]

My view is everyone on the planet is mentally ill except for the people who are locked up for not being crazy enough to handle the "normal" insanity of the world. They too easily forget we are all unique, just like everyone else.

Personally, I don't suffer from insanity; I try to enjoy every minute of it. So before you lock me up please make sure I have my favorite dresses, skirts, blouses, and shoes packed.

-Paula-

[Carly D.]

When I was wearing my booties last week and that girl was checking me out (ringing up my purchase) I think she thought I was a weirdo or whatever for wearing womens heels out like that.. but I have to say that it was considered odd behavior not so long ago to be a guy and have just one ear pierced.. now most men get both ears pierced... so my answer to this post is a question; how do you determine mental illness in cross dressing when piercing the ears is part of it.. or can be.. are those who get their ears pierced a cross dresser? I like to think that me wearing my heels last week in a store where there's a college might influence the girl to tell her friends what she saw and then some of their friends hear about it and some of the guys who hear about it poo poo the idea but in the back of their minds they start to think about wearing heels and then try it and a new (old) movement starts to wear heels out in public..

[AlannahNorth]

This is a difficult challenge. The only thing I can add to this is that the 'line' will be drawn from the individual's perspective.

How to define someone as mentally ill... don't think you can do it because of crossdressing alone. Try 'inability to recognize/deal with reality', 'odd behaviour patterns', or any of the traditional definitions. Problem is... at some point in everyone's life, we've all probably been (at some time) within one or more of the standard categories, near, at, or over the 'edge'.

As long as crossdressing is considered an 'abnormal behaviour' by the public at large, I suppose there's a risk. Oh well, no risk, no reward.

Option #1: Educate the Public

Alannah

[Lorileah]

I'd say that anyone who consults a psychiatist is mentally ill. Is this is just an old prejudice of mine? Perhaps -- but is it

That is exactly why I go to a bartender instead. Cheaper than 250$ an hour, you get self medicated. they listen just as well as a psychiatrist and they don't ask "how does that make YOU feel? and if you order correctly you get dinner (olives or an orange slice).



That is, if you're feeling good about yourself and not doing harm to others, you're not insane. Or else perhaps you are but who cares, why waste the doctor's time

Because we need to keep them off the street corners with those cardboard signs.

"I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell. I know right now you can't tell"

[Shelly67]

I already have , jest or not .... if this were really to be passed then what of the surgeons point of view .
Does he abstain from any bodily modifications ??

Is he going to be regarded as a criminal ?

Is he accountable ??

[KarenCDFL]

There is a very old Fairy Tale that seems to fit here.

Many years ago there was a very wise and kind King who loved his subjects and his subjects loved him.

One day, a witch put a spell on the village well that when the villagers drank from it they would go insane.

Day by day, more of the townsfolk drank from the well until each and everyone was incurably insane.

One morning all of the townspeople gathered and said "The King is Insane!" Not realizing it was really them. After all now the King was very different from them.

Now the King looked out of his castle and saw a huge mob screaming and yelling, demanding he come out and be beheaded!

The King of course had his own pure well and its water was never touched by the evil witch.

The King not wanting to avoid his subjects, gave himself up and he was dragged to the town square when a guillotine was set up right next to the bewitched well.

Any last words before you are beheaded his subjects asked?

Please let me have one final drink of water before I die the king replied.

Well the King drank the water and lo and behold! The towns people realized the King was just fine now!.

They all rejoiced and went back to their homes in comfort.

So this just shows that if everyone wore a dress, the world would be a better place!

[GaleWarning]

I already have , jest or not .... if this were really to be passed then what of the surgeons point of view .
Does he abstain from any bodily modifications ??

Is he going to be regarded as a criminal ?

Is he accountable ??

Good points, Michelle.
I had not considered them before.

[PretzelGirl]

Any male in the womens department not within 12.5 feet of their wives or SO's... Or any male with their wife or SO that is looking at clothing other that those that the wife is holding..

Add that if they are within 12.5 and the wife is asking if the color of the item they are holding up will look good on them.



And the uber rule.. Every single member on crossdressers.com!!
Lock um up, DanO!!
:D

50 lashes with a wet noodle!