The rationale of gender style: female vs. male

[NathalieX66]

I have always tried to figure out how society determines what style of clothing each gender should wear, and how it came to that conclusion.

I am speaking as someone who is a creative person in the apparel industry. The reality is that most clothing designers have the wearer in mind when designing clothes, and therefore ultimately the designer is trying to play up the particular physical features of the wearer for ultimate flattery. Naturally, women have far shapely-er legs than men , therefore there fashion has always played upon the exposure of women's legs, whether it be short skirts, nylon stockings, etc. Dresses and skirts generally are meant to accentuate women's hips by flaring out in A-line fashion. High heel shoes create the feminine sensation of women prancing around like "en-pointe" ballet dancers. Plunging necklines show cleavage...a feature men don't have. The public's imagination increases with things like garter belts, corsets, stelleto heels, short dresses & skirts, tight clothing...all meant to show off feminine features that men do not have. Women may have better asthetics when dressing but the women's fashion industry exists purely to capture the imagination of the male mind. Otherwise we would all look like Chinese Mao-era communist subjects.
But in general, I have always though that men wearing women's clothing was nothing more than a square peg in a round hole. We men, for the most part, do not have the physical characteristics of females, therefore the clothing does not look the same on men as it does on women. there are many cultures across the world where men do not wear pants. In some cases, there really isn't a difinitive difference in gender style.
However, today, even women's clothing is not that much different than men's...but, that said, you will notice women's T-shirts have shorter sleeves and fit tighter, women's pants are hemmed above tha ankle to show leg, and women's tops show more chest area.
Fortunately, fashion rules have loosened up. Men can have long hear and wear earrings, however, note the style between mens long har vs.women, or men's earrings. Maybe the Beatles or David Bowie or any given rockstar have something to do with it, I don't really know.
But gathering at what I see of may crossdressers, tansvestites, drag queens, there is a heavy emphasis on short skirts, high heels, long nails, and sheer linegerie...all stuff intended to show off the feminine features of women...something many/most of us guys just don't have.

[TGMarla]

And your point is.....?

I already know I don't have these attributes. This is why I prosthetically enhance my figure. I make these clothes work on me as best I can.

Men's suits have large shoulders. Gee, what a revelation. They accentuate a feature that men have. Gosh.

Seriously, why are you bringing this into a place where everybody wears women's clothing? Like it isn't painful enough for us already without you belaboring the issue.

[beez1717]

well here's the thing i see: women's clothing shows off the body and men's clothing hides the body. A question i have been wondering is why women get all the soft fabrics and men don't.... (but even if men got soft stuff i'd still wear womens)

[Rachel Morley]

I agree with Marla. We know that we we don't have the body in boy mode that's why we wear hip and bottom padding and forms ... like duh!

[Lisa Golightly]

I've never really been bothered by the clothes that I wear... rather the body I wear.

[Chari]

IMO, designers of womens fashion have "stolen" more of guy clothing ideas that have become comfort items for women! Starting with the pants in the early 1940's, taking the mens business suits/jackets - including neckties, hats, T-shirts, through todays fashions of "little boy shorts, boxers, & boy friend sweaters/shirts", and it continues as the seasons change without retaliation from society to make the almighty dollar! Only recently has mens fashion begun to emerge with pastel colors - including pink, and some softer/stretchy materials. Today, if a guy "steals" some fashion item from the ladies, most of society is ready to "tar & feather and run him out of town!

[Kate Simmons]

Yep, that is where the use of misdirection, illusion and imagination comes in and is what makes what we do somewhat of an artform really.:)

[Nicki B]

Naturally, women have far shapely-er legs than men ,

I think you may find many women who would disagree with you.


Some of us have good legs, some of us don't - but one's sex doesn't play a part in it..

[Teri Jean]

I'm trying to understand the line of thoughtabout clothing design and the genders. First I think you are right as how they come out with clothing design but when it comes to the choices women go for is pants, t-shirts, hoodies and converse shoes. Now that isn't universal but if you look when at the mall one would have to say the ratio is 1 out of 10 wears jeans, hoodies, and tennis shoes. It is so sad because they have a natural beauty that they hide.

Keli

[MissConstrued]

I count myself rather fortunate in this regard. I have a natural figure much like a slender female athlete -- not the hourglass, but some sign of it. Call it halfway between typical male & typical female. It was the bane of my existence as a teenager, but I've learned to have fun with it.

I suspect much of the reason for the widespread "comfortization" of clothing is that a growing percentage of Americans have a figure like Jabba the Hut. Until this society kicks its junk food habit, we're going to see more of the same.

[Jessica Who]

However, today, even women's clothing is not that much different than men's...but, that said, you will notice women's T-shirts have shorter sleeves and fit tighter, women's pants are hemmed above tha ankle to show leg, and women's tops show more chest area.

Interesting post, and I do find it a bit cute that I can crossdress just by wearing a t-shirt that is cut a tiny bit different.

Can you imagine if they made dresses cut for a man's body? Hehehehehe

[Teri Jean]

Jess, They doo make clothes and dresses cut for a man's body but they look better when you add some hips and breasts. LOTF It really sucks when one dresses casual or to the nines and people lable you instead of the compliments we give the ladies. I personally love the fel of a dress over pants and a top but there are times where it would be more appropriate..........working in the garden, moving the grass, changing the oil (altough it would feel great and look hot), well you get the picture.LOL

Keli

[Intertwined]

Naturally, women have far shapely-er legs than men , therefore there fashion has always played upon the exposure of women's legs, whether it be short skirts, nylon stockings, etc.
I don't know who's legs you have been looking at? sure, womens legs are curvey, but, the legs of a healthy male are quite shapely, actually very defined, just look at mine (sorry, not shaved in 2nd photo).
88383-88384

Dresses and skirts generally are meant to accentuate women's hips by flaring out in A-line fashion.
Most people who have legs, have hips, and once again, a healthy male, without a beer gut, has a well defined waist and hips, 2 more of me.
88385http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=927&pictureid=15781

Plunging necklines show cleavage... meant to show off feminine features that men do not have.
Sure, most men do not have large breasts, BUT, You mean to tell me, the so called fashion designers can't make something flattering to show off this?
88394


But in general, I have always though that men wearing women's clothing was nothing more than a square peg in a round hole. We men, for the most part, do not have the physical characteristics of females, therefore the clothing does not look the same on men as it does on women.
I do not try to look like a female, I do not even want to be mistaken for one. I wear wormens clothing because I like soft, lacy, bright colored clothing. If someone made mens clothings that was soft, lacy, or with bright colors, I wouldn't have to wear womens clothing. Bottom line is " Pretty ", which means pleasant or nice but lacking strength, force, manliness, purpose, or intensity. Men's clothing, at this time CAN'T be pretty, because all men's clothing is made to be MACHO, TUFF, BAD A _ _. Even the skirts that are being made for men at this time are Tuff, here is another pic of me in a " Man's Skirt " with all its buckles, straps, and combat style pockets.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=927&pictureid=10259
The rest of you post Nathalie66, talks about the difference in womens and mens clothing, how womens clothing is made to show off the feminine features, why is it so difficult to show off Male features in the same manner?

[beez1717]

for me, it's the fact that the clothing is designed with women in mind, that it fits much better and that it is way cuter then any guy's clothing. Also, I think it fits the male body better and always will even if there are things designed to show off the guy's body.....

[VeronicaMoonlit]

is that a growing percentage of Americans have a figure like Jabba the Hut.

Bo shuda. Sie batha ne beechee? Smeeleeya whao toupee upee. Ho ho ho ho ho.

Salicious Crumb: ha ha ha

Veronica the Hutt
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[Intertwined]

Bo shuda. Sie batha ne beechee? Smeeleeya whao toupee upee. Ho ho ho ho ho.

Salicious Crumb: ha ha ha

Veronica the Hutt
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

If you only knew the Power of the Pink side.
88408

[noeleena]

Hi... well that pic looks better than my overall s any way what would i know. i.m just a woman. the pinks nice .
long skirts . warm tops . boots flat.es that is ... oh yea winter time .....& snow .....he he. lovely .......
...noeleena...

[Intertwined]

My Appologies, sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees in the way.

Your question had nothing to do (almost anyway) with the difference in style. Your question was....


I have always tried to figure out how society determines what style of clothing each gender should wear, and how it came to that conclusion.

How does society decide anything? Popular vote, avoiding extremes, extremes mean change, and humans fear change.

As for clothing style, I believe, until very recently, style was dictated by function, Male clothing had to be tough, because the jobs we did were physical and tough, Female clothing had to be practical for the female job, which was caring for the home and offspring. Following this line of thought, the man that now stays home, takes care of the house and children should be able, without question, to wear the same things that were only worn by the female, AND, the woman that goes out everyday to attack society, to bring home the kill to feed the family, wear what was usually only acceptable for a man. We know in American society, half of this equation has already been solved.

[Intertwined]

Can you imagine if they made dresses cut for a man's body? Hehehehehe

Yes I can...

Untouched photo
88421

Graphicaly altered to fit & be flattering of a male chest
88422

Take it in at the hips, and you have a comfortable sundress for doing light chores around the house, or just going out for a walk.

[Stargirl]

well here's the thing i see: women's clothing shows off the body and men's clothing hides the body. A question i have been wondering is why women get all the soft fabrics and men don't.... (but even if men got soft stuff i'd still wear womens)

A lot of men's shirts are rayon, and soft. The better designers make them fit well. Silk shirts for guys are soft. Linen can be soft, and chambray can be very much so. Some thin cottons, and gauze shirts are Gypsy Like, and great for summer. A few manufacturers have been selling unisx togs for awhile. As a GG, I can't stand anything stiff. (when it comes to clothing, anyway) :heehee:

[Nicki B]

The rest of you post Nathalie66, talks about the difference in womens and mens clothing, how womens clothing is made to show off the feminine features, why is it so difficult to show off Male features in the same manner?

It's not - go into any gay bar and look at what the boys are wearing.. ;)

[Intertwined]

It's not - go into any gay bar and look at what the boys are wearing.. ;)

Sorry, I've never been in a gay bar :) I stand correct, now I am currious about how they dress in a gay bar, now look what you've gon and done. :lol:

[sissystephanie]

I have always tried to figure out how society determines what style of clothing each gender should wear, and how it came to that conclusion.[QUOTE]

I don't believe society has anything to do with what style of clothing is worn by each gender. The market is what makes the detirmination. Some designer somewhere says, "I think women will really like this blouse open to the navel." So a few are made up, and no one buys any! "Oops," says the designer! "I better change this to a mans shirt." It sells like hotcakes!! Personally, I would rather have the blouse!

[QUOTE] But in general, I have always though that men wearing women's clothing was nothing more than a square peg in a round hole. We men, for the most part, do not have the physical characteristics of females, therefore the clothing does not look the same on men as it does on women.

I do not consider my self to be either a square peg or a round hole! Although I am sort of round, at least in the middle of my otherwise feminine body. With natural 40 B's, a nice tight round butt, and legs that have won contests for their shapeliness, I think I can call it feminine! Yes, I really did win leg beauty contests on at least 3 different occasions when I was in my 20's. Gee, Karren, you were just being born!!

[MissConstrued]

now I am currious about how they dress in a gay bar, now look what you've gon and done. :lol:


Tis true, sorta. I know some gay guys who wear some pretty snazzy threads. And some who are slobs. Maybe they dress nicer on average than straight men, but it's not universal.

That said... given the choice between dressing like a girl, or dressing like a gay guy.... Lemme think.... :D

[Lisa Golightly]

Sure, most men do not have large breasts, BUT, You mean to tell me, the so called fashion designers can't make something flattering to show off this?

Gosh!!! :D

[noname]

Clothes are more than just something to wear. They are meant to express the wearer. For example, Babydoll dress: Suggests playful, fun and whimsical. When was the last time you saw a mens shirt that said, "love" on the front, or perhaps had hearts or flowers on the shirt. In short it's because are suppose to bold and strong.

Since were on a fashion rant here, I saw a large poster for jeans the other day that said, "new! It's back, the classic strait cut for men." As if I was going to see the poster and say to myself, "I love the classic strait cut! I haven't seen that in years!"

[Ruth]

I think the OP has got it in their mind that men are men and women are women and they're as different as black and white. (A strange idea for someone who hangs out on this forum.)
Anyway, the variation is enormous and there is even some overlap - some women have big shoulders and a tight little butt.
And there's me with my slight build, narrow shoulders and big hips: I reckon most women's clothes fit me just fine and I don't feel like a square peg. But I'm not some sort of freak - I am just at one end of the spectrum of normal male body shape.
The "rules" about clothing style are arbitrary and dictated by convention, not by body shape.

[Karren H]

Actually I think it all started. When an acient roman female accidentally washed her her white toga with some red rugs and they came out pink.. Then she sewed a little lace ion the sleves and neckline and rest is history!! Lol.

Personally I like that women get to wear all that pretty clothing!! Make crossdressing very difficult if everyone could wear what they want?? :D

[NathalieX66]

I think the OP has got it in their mind that men are men and women are women and they're as different as black and white. (A strange idea for someone who hangs out on this forum.)

well, only physically. My point was that female clothing was designed to play up, and enhance the esthetics that males kind of don't have. Other wise, why else would some CD'ers go through much trouble to enance certain features using shaping forms, wigs, and what not?
As for the "strange idea for someone who hangs out on this forum", I am merely the messenger of the mainstream point of view.That said, it doesn't mean i practice it. I never advocated any rules of what society should follow, I am merely trying to observe from a cultural anthropology standpoint. That doesn't mean we can't stop doing what we're doing, right?


don't believe society has anything to do with what style of clothing is worn by each gender. The market is what makes the detirmination. Some designer somewhere says, "I think women will really like this blouse open to the navel." So a few are made up, and no one buys any! "Oops," says the designer! "I better change this to a mans shirt." It sells like hotcakes!! Personally, I would rather have the blouse!

Yes, and no. yes, I agree. Someone here mentioned, though too far up the forum to grab the exact quote, which was the effect of 'women's clothes show more skin, and mens clothes hide more skin'. Any heterosexual male with a decent libido enjoys seeing more skin on a female, thus marketability. Once society establishes this phenomenon, the trend turns into an established practice, the root it takes is so deep that it's often hard to see it any other way, unless you are open minded and able to overcome fear of doing things in any other way. The 'no' standpoint comes from not looking at society from the retail standpoint. How many job interviews in mainstream society can you ace while wearing a skirtsuit?

I coudn't answer a question about an observation about American beaches about why most American men wear knee legnth boxer trunks, but the only men who wear speedos are European men other than Cultural differences.

I'm not advocating what anyone should or shouldn't wear (...job interviews aside, if you need the income), otherwise why would I be here on this forum?

[Celeste]

I count myself rather fortunate in this regard. I have a natural figure much like a slender female athlete -- not the hourglass, but some sign of it. Call it halfway between typical male & typical female. It was the bane of my existence as a teenager, but I've learned to have fun with it.

I suspect much of the reason for the widespread "comfortization" of clothing is that a growing percentage of Americans have a figure like Jabba the Hut. Until this society kicks its junk food habit, we're going to see more of the same.

Thats so true,I could easily put on 30 pds. and never show it with the potato sack drab mens wear their pushing.Its all extra large and I feel like tearing it to shreds.I truly despise it, if I weigh 150,I don't want to look like 200.