Taking hormones without loosing sexual function? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Hephaestus

05-10-2009, 11:14 PM

I'm 23, and want to start taking hormones, but want to get some information first, due to my situation being different from what I see talked about in online literature.

I consider myself perhaps 65% girl, 35% guy... and I know I want to be of feminine body to match my mind... but I do want my penis to continue to be able to satisfy my partner. From all my reading, it seems like going the typical route with anti-androgens causes erections to cease. Would taking estrogen by itself have a feminizing effect without killing off my sexual abilities? I don't care about sperm count, just the ability to get erect and have sex.

Also, over and over I see transgender info sources mention that you can bump down to a low dose of estrogen after SRS... but, continuing with my situation of not wanting that.. what do I do? If I take hormones for a while, get results, and then stop taking them to save my penis' function, in later years will I still get male pattern baldness, and start to grow darker/thicker hair back on my body?

Thanks for the help :]

-Rosie

Sharon

05-11-2009, 05:50 AM

So let me see if I have this correct. You write that you are 35% male. Does that mean 35% penis function would be about what you would expect and be satisfied with? And since you are 65% female..., no, nevermind, I'm not going to go there.

I best leave this to all the "experts" out there.

Lisa Golightly

05-11-2009, 06:21 AM

I think you need to think a lot more about things... Why not just get some implants? It's a hell of a lot easier and the risk of death is lower...

Hmmmmmmm?

05-11-2009, 07:57 AM

I think you need to think a lot more about things... Why not just get some implants? It's a hell of a lot easier and the risk of death is lower...

Hmmmmmmm?

:iagree:

were talking about absolutes here your either a boy or a girl not both....

the fact is you have to do this right the reason for the anti-androgens "Spiro" is to stop male characteristics
you add estrogen to then create female characteristics Estrogen re wires your brain the testosterone also will try to re wire your brain talk about a head case you are either one or the other you can't be both with both hormones destroying your mind and body

as Lisa has said just get implants and save yourself a lot of stress

GypsyKaren

05-11-2009, 08:38 AM

Estrogen can lead to permanent changes, especially at the doses needed to change your body, so I think I'd be concerned that the 65% and the 35% might change places some day.

Karen :g2:

Melissa A.

05-11-2009, 08:53 AM

While I'm a staunch advocate of the idea that transsexuals know themselves better than anyone else, and that the hoops we need to jump through to become who we are, are cumbersome and not fair, I also feel that those who are living on the so-called "gray areas" of the (also so-called) "transgender spectrum" should not be fooling around with hormones. If that sounds somewhat elitist to you, so be it. I am sorry. This is a huge, huge decision for one planning transition, alone. There are possible health implications, for one thing, and I also see possible far-reaching social implications for transsexuals down the road. Right now, Transsexualism is reaching a point where we are becoming accepted by many facets of society. I truly hope that continues to improve. However, there are voices of dissent out there. They may be biased and do sloppy research, but some of those voices do have some power to influence decisions about us. (amazing that we are rarely, if ever, asked how WE feel!) If the use of hormones and other serious tools becomes widespread by those who are less than transsexual, I see a possible backlash. After all, if others "partially transition" because they really, really, really, really want to, what's to stop someone of accusing me of feeling the same, even though the truth is I DON'T necessarilly want to- I NEED to. I am already accused by some who think they know what they are talking about, of being nothing but a "homosxeual male", or an "autogynapheliac". I would hate to see the needs of those desperate enough to transition trivialized for the sake of others. Or because the "TG" community as a whole overreached, someday. I'm sorry, But that's how I feel. We are getting closer and closer every day, but the gains we are seeing are still too rare, and can be fragile, and be taken away very easily. I do sympathize with you and those like you, but I dont think you need HRT. I am sorry.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

melissaK

05-11-2009, 10:21 AM

Rosie,

(The executive summary). I think from your questions you know the answers. As much as some of us want to stradddle the fence and have it both ways, its not likely to be done. I've probably been doing what you propose for 2 1/2 years or so (time flies). and I can't find the balance. I always seem to be on one side or the other.

(Begin long story). I started HRT motivated by controlling anxiety over gender dysphoria that had become disabling. (I'll call it GID for purposes of this post - don't want to start a nomenclature debate) Like most all of us my issues emerged pre-teen, and got worse into adult hood. WASP male shame and guilt haunted me. I invested in a male professional career and had a family and truly didn't want to transition. But, counselling and recreational CDing wasn't working. I had a serious mental health breakdown.

So, in an effort to not transition but to still do something, I began taking E alone. I did blood tests and had a physical to make sure I could. While I disclosed this to a counsellor, I did not see an endocrinologist or have a supervising doctor.

It took a 2-3 weeks on E and my GID anxiety went away for the first time in decades. WOW. It was a welcome respite. After a few months I developed visible breast growth.

Breast growth takes time, and sustained E, even without the anti-androgens like spiro, impairs testes function and testosterone secretion by your body. As T declined so did my sperm production, then so did my erections. Mine became more difficult to obtain, sustain, and were on a smaller scale than previously. My interest in sex fell off too. (Lots of room for discussion about how women view sex vs men and trans peoples need to relearn sexual interest, imagery, etc.)

But, in my world, I am married and my wife wants a traditional sexual relationship. She knew I CDed, but transitioning was her deal breaker. To keep my relationship with her, I cut back on E.

I found low doses didn't keep the GID anxiety at bay, and breast growth reversed. The fullness of them went away and they got smaller. But, sperm returned, and erections returned. With time they returned to historical size as well.

The return of anxiety issues became unbearable again, and I restarted E.

I have since varied dosages, trying to find the dosage that puts me on the fence, but it has proven elusive; I always seem to be on one side or the other.

I have also had a physical and blood work done annually since I have begun this. I have not had abnormal tests.

That said, as you read the scientific literature, you will see research concluding that E changes brain cells in XY genetic males. If you create certain brain cells by putting E in your body, then later remove the E source, what happens to those cells in the long run? Some genetic XY men have bodies that produce too much E, how has this affected them? Is there a risk of birth defects from starting and restarting semen production? True studies aren't there to answer these exotic questions.

All of us XY genetic humans taking E at XX genetic levels puts us in unexplored territory. I've done this yo-yo with E for 2 1/2 years and outwardly seem no worse for the wear, but I haven't had a battery of pscyhe tests, or IQ tests, or lots of other potential tests. What will be the result of yo-yoing for 20 years (if i am lucky enough to live so long)? I didn't start till I was 52, what about someone like you who might start at 23? By my age you'd have been yo-yoing for 30 years. Could the brain and body handle that?

As with all early explorers, the risks can be substantial. Columbus may have found the New World, but his crew sailed home without him. Madame Curie died from the then unknown side effects of her work.

The idea of getting implants is fine if you don't have serious problems with anxiety from not transitioning. For me, the breasts are great, but either the presence of E or the suppressed T seem to be what controls my anxiety. I am not sure which it is. I suspect it is the suppressed T that does it because of reports of usually late in life non transitioners who undergo orchiectomies and report anxiety relief. Who knows, maybe someday we will learn many of us MTF's have a genetic condition that makes our bodies intolerant of our own T. If you can't live with T, then why not transition?

If I knew now what I didn't know when I was your age, I don't know what I would have done different with my life. I have kids and enjoy my family greatly. I would regret not having had them. But, living out a life as a man has been staggeringly hard and I have broken once or twice under the peculiar strain. Perhaps my life scales of joy and suffering are balanced. (Sorry, don't mean to wax so philospohical).

Keep doing your homework. New studies and reports emerge regularly. Be careful listening to opinion - track down the actual medical studies if you are academically up to such tasks.

Overall, I think the best course is to get a good smart endocrinologist who treats trans folk and engage them in discussion of your options. They won't be easy to find, but, it will be money well spent. Its your whole life ahead of you. It would be a shame to say you spent more on the short term joy of a flat screen or a car than on your long term health and concommitent happiness.

Stay optimistic.

hugs,
'lissa

Hephaestus

05-11-2009, 01:22 PM

Thank you for taking the time to reply :)

Sharon, don't assume I wouldn't listen to you. I think I made a mistake in posting a definitive %, I'm bad at math:doh: ... For one thing if you asked me last year I may have said 50%, the year before 40... I'm heading more towards the pink cloud, I think ^_^; I'll put it this way, I feel at peace when I'm dressed, and I want my whole body to be more female, not just breasts. Having only breast implants would look so stupid on me, I'd be a sideshow attraction.. furthermore it's not just about having some breasts to play with, if that's what y'all think I'm driving at.
Also after talking things over with my SO she said she would love me just the same if I lost function and would be happy with me using marital aids (She is so great!) Even if I would lose function, it would be worth it. I've researched for a couple weeks everything I could find on this, I know the risks, deep vein thrombosis and and such... but I'm a healthy 23 year old and to me the risks are worth having a body that fits me better.

...With that out of the way, could someone please steer me towards an answer? While waiting on a reply here I cruised the archives here and found a few cases where the TG person in question was taking E and low dose AA's and still had function after a couple years. Again, it's not a requirement for me to function sexually, but I'd prefer to keep it for the time being. Would an orchiectomy be an option?

Stargirl

05-11-2009, 01:51 PM

Snipping off your family jewels at such a young age seems a tad drastic if you are happy with things the way they are "down south". I am sure the best solution will show up sooner or later. You have time on your side.

Sarah...

05-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Look, there are indeed some combinations of HRT that may give a better chance of erectile penile function than others but there is so much variability in each person that it is only likely to be an endocrinologist who could perhaps specify a regime that could help you with the end goal you perceive you need from your current viewpoint. So I'll offer no advice here. I'm not an endocrinologist.

However, I'll say this. Becky and I have done some serious research in this area and have come to the conclusion that the response is largely down to the individual's innate biology and that an endocrinologist is unlikely to be able to be accurate in defining a regime that is guaranteed to give the results you seek. As such, we talked some more and came to the conclusion that in seeking the end goal you describe we were actually avoiding the more pertinent question of how we would function together as two women. Once we addressed that question the issue of maintaining a male performance melted away.

It probably doesn't help your specific question - but that is my experience and I offer it as another view that you can add into your thinking if you wish:)

Sarah...

Hephaestus

05-11-2009, 02:10 PM

Tiffany Tuesday

05-11-2009, 02:56 PM

Thank you :] ...Really, since my gf told me last night that it wasn't necessary for me to have erections, I have a different outlook now...A lot of what held me back for years was that I'm only attracted to women, and I thought no woman would love me like that. I guess now my only problem is I'm not steadily employed and have no insurance :|

Hi baby bee,

read the posts above from those who know. I agree with Lisa Golightly, get implants. Estrogen of sufficient strength and duration to work, will feminise you more than you seem to seek. Never change something you may regret later.

And for an economic boob job google for Thailand mtf surgeons.

Then again, Hephaestus .. did he not have a limp limb anyway? :)

hugz
Tiff x

ChristineRenee

05-11-2009, 04:15 PM

I don't know if I qualify as an "expert" here, but I am in this situation so I will respond.

I have been on HRT since 2004. It DOES affect your sex life. It DOES affect both penis and testicle size AND your sexual libido, and anyone that tries to tell you differently isn't being completely honest with you.

That said...if you are going to be on HRT on a regular basis, and still want to sexually satisfy your partner, my advice to you would be to get a prescription from your doctor for Viagra or Cialis or some equivalent. I did and it has helped me. I had significant shrinkage of both my penis and my testicles because of HRT. I like to say that, metaphorically speaking, I went from a 44 Magnum "down there" to a derringer! But the biggest problem was more than the size reduction...it was the loss of libido.

Now...I'm not advocating to ANYONE here to go on HRT. I like to say that I went on them initially for all the WRONG reasons and ended up taking them on a regular basis for the RIGHT reasons...and no...I don't care to share anymore personal info than that about why I am on HRT when I don't ever plan to transition. To be blunt...I would NEVER recommend HRT for ANYONE that isn't planning to at least live as a pre-op TS.

So, bottom line here, I recommend a Viagra prescription, or the equivalent, for you so that you will be able to perform your duties as a sexual partner for your spouse.

Just my :2c: as always.

Kimberley

05-11-2009, 04:47 PM

I think you need to see a therapist. Start messing with HRT and you are making permanent changes. In my opinion, if you arent willing to say 100% female then you are deluding yourself as well as robbing those around you of you in whatever capacity.

This isnt a game.

If you want physical change but not SRS that is fine and there are many valid reasons for that but even those who choose that will say they are female and have paid their dues for those decisions.

As the saying goes you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Joan Merrie

05-11-2009, 09:18 PM

hephaestus, PLEASE,PLEASE, seek out a qualified therapist. Because thats what you need most right now.:hugs:

Hephaestus

05-12-2009, 12:34 AM

You know what, I've changed my mind, I don't care about my dick >_< I do seek being a woman. I really said a stupid thing in the beginning. I know this isn't a game, it's my life and body. Do you know how stupid implants would look on me? I'm a ex weightlifter and bladesmith professionally. I'd look like a linebacker with balloons attached, I figure.

I phrased things really stupidly in my first post, with incorrect information. I really think I need the whole package, even if it takes mine. Sorry to ask a stupid question, I see I've offended you mentioning this, I'm truly sorry. v_v

In my native forum people always ask "LoL how do I forge a sward that can cut steel and cinder blocks? I like knifes and stuf!!!!1 I only have a bic lighter a scrap of sandpaper and an old lawnmower blade to work with." I understand about people asking stupid questions on forums, but I always keep a cool head and try to help everyone out as if they were the first to come to me for advice without an ounce of research. (not saying all of you came at me that hard) Such is not the case with me, I'm not the guy trying to get tits for fun and ruin TG's good name.

Again, sorry. I think I'm going to come out to my father soon and ask for financial assistance to see a psychiatrist. My back and all over is starting to get very hairy and gross, I'd like to nip this in the bud. I may not ever pass but I do want to be a woman..
I was in err with my first post, trying to not transition totally for the sake of my woman, I didn't expect her to be cool with a total transformation. She is, and it's a heavy weight off my shoulders. Again, sorry.

Lisa Golightly

05-12-2009, 12:49 AM

You know... You'll get this all the way down the line... You are going to have to convince professionals you're serious you need to fundamentally alter your entire life.. Often lose that which at the begining you don't think you will...

If your first post contained incorrect information then perhaps you've learned the biggest lesson we as transsexuals can learn... be true to yourself and be honest with others.

Go seek the help you require... We've all had to...

Good luck.

Lisa x

Zenith

05-12-2009, 01:23 AM

Hi Rosie...

First things first...you do need to talk things over with a psych...they will help you find your own answers...to be honest the biggest benefit to hrt is the mental/emotional...if this has been eating at you the hormones will help...but it is a serious step as everyone said...some visible some not but many permanent changes...that being said it has helped me a great deal...

BTW...I'm a knifeknut...:D...lemmee know what sort of blades you make...fixed? folders?

Niya W

05-12-2009, 01:51 AM

For each person its different. For me looking at porn does nothing. I habe to be touched to get an erection. But it still happens and it can last just as long as before .

Hephaestus

05-12-2009, 02:14 AM

Zenith

05-12-2009, 02:30 AM

I can't make folders yet except friction folders (no lock), i make mostly fixed blades.

I'm definitely getting with a psychiatrist about it... although I'm unemployed and no insurance.. I did find a psychiatrist with a not-so-horrible hourly rate in atlanta. (2 hour drive)

What style? Hunters? Drop-point? Any famous makers you take after? Bill Moran, Jimmy Lile, Bo Randall, George Heron, Bob Loveless, Bob Dozier, Gil Hibben,...etc...

That's a good move...let us know how it goes...there are lots of possible treatments...including transitioning...but that is if you have reached a point in your life where you just can't live with yourself any longer...

Joan Merrie

05-12-2009, 06:03 AM

Hephaestus

05-12-2009, 06:12 AM

Thank you to everyone for the advice. :)

Zenith: I'm not influenced by any particular maker, I design based on what the client needs/wants. I've made all kinds of fixed blades and can do a lot of different stuff, but I do tend to make knives with curved, ergonomic handles and blades that have clean lines. I have taken many ideas from a lot of other makers, but I never say "I like that and want to copy it exactly."

Kaitlyn Michele

05-12-2009, 07:07 AM

Good luck Rosie. As others have said, this is a serious and long journey no matter where you start or end up.

I don't think you are hurting anyone by asking lots of questions, and I don't think your original question was a bad one...and you have lots of time to consider your own inner feelings, and your options..

If you take hormones, though, you need to make sure that you are physically ok. Over time, you will lose sex function...plus over time, the effects will become permanent..btw after about 10 months of E and T blockers, my penis still works when i want it to, but I've lost all spontaneous erections (which i hated and had quite often :devil:)...just nothing comes out anymore when i release, which is fine with me...

You also said you didnt have good cash flow or insurance...hormones cost money!! and generally the E is not insured, just saying..

So get that therapist so you can let it all hang out and they will help you sort through all the confusing and mixed feelings you may be having...I think you might be amazed at how your thinking comes together after a couple of hrs with an experienced gender therapist.. It's worth the upfront money because it will help you figure out where to invest your resources in the future to feminize your body

Many TG folks have had to work around cash flow issues that only get worse when you try to become more feminine and especially if you transition

You are risking alot health/friends/family/$$ by doing this so make sure you know what you're doing....which I think is what you are doing here!!! LOL...

Take care - Michele

Empress Lainie

05-12-2009, 11:07 AM

Interesting conversations on here. I do know of some couples where the male became fully transitioned with SRS and they have been together for a long time.

My own experience I have used phytoestrogen for 18 years, have nice (to me) breasts) am accepted as a real woman, and live female 24/7 with female ID.

However, sex drive is minimal, erections are mostly impossible, and even orgasms are sometimes not possible. Since I have no sex partner I don't even care. I also don't feel like I need anyone's permission to do what I want to do with my body.

Raquel June

05-12-2009, 11:41 AM

I consider myself perhaps 65% girl, 35% guy... and I know I want to be of feminine body to match my mind... but I do want my penis to continue to be able to satisfy my partner.

I know you've since retracted this statement, but I don't think it's so bad. I always wanted to be a girl, but I never felt 100% girly. I played with Legos, not Barbie dolls. We are not crossdressers who have the "my panties are frillier than yours" attitude of constantly trying to outdo each other's pseudo-femininity (not that all crossdressers have that attitude, either).

About hormones, everybody is different. I'm not sure exactly where you're coming from. At first you wanted to still get erections. But now that your wife is OK with it would you prefer not to have erections? Many people will tell you that testosterone blockers keep you from getting erections, but it's largely psychological and everybody reacts differently. There are TS girls who get no erections who aren't on any hormones or t-blockers yet. There are TS girls on huge doses of t-blockers who still get erections. There are TS girls who have had orchiectomies and take estrogen and still get erections. If you really want to talk about erections PM me, but I'm going to stop for now. :) Anyway, all hormones are like that -- especially progesterone. Some people never get any feminine curves. Some get them from estrogen, some don't. Some get them when they add progesterone. But the bottom line is nobody can tell you what amount of which drugs (if any) will make you grow breasts, will atrophy your testicles, will make you unable to sustain an erection, will put you in a better mood, will put you in a worse mood, will give you a pulmonary embolism, etc... Well, actually, a doctor can run tests to tell you if you're at much risk for blood clots...

Estrogen can feminize you without taking t-blockers. That's why steroid abusers can get gynecomastia. Some of your T naturally converts to E, and if you have twice the normal male amount of T you'll have twice the E, too. Many people talk about how testosterone blocks estrogen receptors or destroys estrogen but this is at least to some degree unfounded.

As someone who used to do 300 lb reps on the bench (because that was all the weight that came with the set), though, I will tell you that you'll need all the help you can get as far as that linebacker look, and testosterone blockers are a good place to start. They make me feel kinda lethargic, though, so I don't take as much as I should.

If you're not taking a high dose of a testosterone blocker you do need to at least take a DHT blocker. About 1/3 of your testosterone converts to DHT, and DHT is what makes you bald, what increases your body hair, what causes an enlarged prostate. Really, DHT causes most of the bad things. If you block DHT, though, you actually increase free testosterone, so again you'll have that linebacker problem to some degree. But if you're 23 and have good hair you should get on a DHT blocker (like Propecia) regardless.

were talking about absolutes here your either a boy or a girl not both....

I don't know. This is probably just an argument of semantics. But I certainly consider it more of a spectrum over which nobody is really 100% male or female mentally. I would greatly prefer to have been born a girl. I would prefer to be called "she." I do acknowledge that I have several masculine traits, though, and there are a few which I don't even resent.

I'll put it this way, I feel at peace when I'm dressed, and I want my whole body to be more female, not just breasts. Having only breast implants would look so stupid on me, I'd be a sideshow attraction..

Well, we all feel like sideshow attractions sometimes. That's what the therapy's for. ;)

...With that out of the way, could someone please steer me towards an answer? While waiting on a reply here I cruised the archives here and found a few cases where the TG person in question was taking E and low dose AA's and still had function after a couple years. Again, it's not a requirement for me to function sexually, but I'd prefer to keep it for the time being. Would an orchiectomy be an option?

I know a TS woman who is with an F2M guy. Both of them have been on HRT for many years, but neither have had SRS. Both function normally, and the girl takes ... well ... we're not supposed to discuss dosages, but she takes a very high (yet fairly typical) amount of Spiro and a fairly high amount of oral estradiol. But maybe she just isn't receptive to the hormones, because she desperately needed (and got) implants. Again, everybody is different. There are people who only fooled around with estrogen for a little bit and permanently lost function.

You'll be fine. You don't need to apologize so much. And don't worry so much about 10 years from now. But get on a DHT blocker so you can see if any of that back hair goes away. And start saving up for that laser hair removal because you'll definitely need it on your face and chest. You don't really want to start growing boobs while you're still shaving your cleavage, do you? Trust me it's not pretty.

Zenith

05-12-2009, 03:06 PM

...Zenith: I'm not influenced by any particular maker, I design based on what the client needs/wants. I've made all kinds of fixed blades and can do a lot of different stuff, but I do tend to make knives with curved, ergonomic handles and blades that have clean lines. I have taken many ideas from a lot of other makers, but I never say "I like that and want to copy it exactly."

Hi Rosie.

You don't have to be a girly girl in all things to be female...like I posted before...there are female fighter pilots, race car drivers, and yes knife makers...(Audra Draper)...

Ahhhh you take after Ken Onion, Tom Mayo, Sal and Eric Glesser...with the ergonomic handles...function over form...:)

I wasn't saying you followed anyone exactly...just trying to get an idea of what your work looks like...:hugs:...can you make me a pink tanto???

:heehee:

Hephaestus

05-12-2009, 05:12 PM

Thank you for all the continued help :] ..I'm unemployed but do have some small income. It'll be slow going I know. I realize reading from the first post to here I seem bi-polar, lol... It's not that I don't want erections, just that I don't need them as much as I thought, to please my girlfriend (not married yet) ..so if I take the hormones and lose it it won't upset me.

I think when I save a good bit of money, I will talk to a doctor about it. Could someone give me some idea of what things like the blood testing that goes on during treatment costs?
I think if I could lose a little mass in my shoulders/arms and get some small breast development I'd be content. I have a girly butt to begin with.
As far as being seen as female, and the changes being permanent.. I sure hope so :D I'm self-employed (just not selling any knives yet), so I don't have to worry about losing my job.

Hephaestus

05-12-2009, 05:15 PM

Oh, and absolutely, Zenith. I'm somewhat of a newbie so I'd make it for just my cost. Can you pm me? (If you were just playing around that's cool too ;) ) I've been wanting to make a knife to carry for protection while I'm out en femme, myself :]

Raquel June

05-13-2009, 11:12 AM

So what's up with Georgia? Is there something in the water? Was there a rash of alien abductions between 1970 and 1986?

Zenith

05-13-2009, 11:37 AM

Hi Rosie.

My doc submits the blood work so at least some is paid. Since you are self employed, I will see if the total cost is on the bill and get back to you.

Here is a pink knife the "Izula" that I carry...more utility than self-defense...I will PM you on the knife stuff...just wanting you to feel welcome...:hugs:

JennyTG24

05-13-2009, 11:40 AM

hiya rosie, i dont mean to be rude, but due to my finacial situation it is dificult for me to start taking hormones, because i need to work to get the money for my sex change, so i can feel better about myself, i hate having this thing between my legs and when i was younger i did try to cut it off, because i strongly feel that i shouldnt be the way i am. You asking that question says to me that deep in your mind you are still unshore about what you want. otherwise you wouldnt of asked.

I really do think you need to have a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself the question again, Do i want to transition really or not?

Raquel June

05-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Since this is already totally off-topic...

I carry a 3.9" folder 99% of the time (an old CRKT M16) and a Glock 26 about 1% of the time (which I do have a permit for).

Knife laws are pretty crazy and extremely contradictory from state to state ... and from city to city ... and from government building to government building. But in the end legal precedent concerning knives is very similar to gun laws. The only excuse you have for pulling out a deadly weapon is if someone is threatening your life (or severe bodily harm), and you need to kill them to protect yourself because for some reason running away isn't an option.

The important thing to realize is that those conditions are usually only met when someone is about to shoot you so a knife really isn't going to help. The whole concept of carrying a knife for defense is pretty questionable. The written law in many places simply considers it an illegal deadly weapon. There are many more gun-specific laws which say when you can use a gun. So in the end knives are actually "more illegal" than guns.

Zenith

05-13-2009, 12:28 PM

Raquel you are doing it again...the mods are going to pull all of our posts...to respond to you...a knife is a tool and I use it on a daily basis...what a knife can do is give you a quick way to make someone much stronger let go (like in a surprise sexual assault) and then you can get away...a gun isn't much use up close...there is an entire series of knives from TDI that are a huge hit with LEO's, a large percentage of them that are shot in the line of duty are shot with their own weapon during a struggle...the TDI knives are a quick way to make the assailant let got fast...

A knife is not to be shown in an encounter and only readied if prepared to be used...

https://www.kabar.com/product_detail.jsp?productNumber=1480

Hephaestus

05-13-2009, 12:30 PM

True... GA has somewhat lax carry laws, though. The law does change depending on which cop you ask, though. The length is either 4" or 3" or "If the cop lays the blade across his palm and it's longer..." I have a .38 in my glove box for if I thought I was going to get in a life or death struggle. The knife is if I can't get to that and something comes up anyway... a better chance than with just my hands. I do want to get some small slim gun for carry, though.

Zenith: When you said pink knife I thought you meant the handle. I can't actually do any colored coatings or anodizing or anything <_<;

Raquel June

05-13-2009, 01:50 PM

Raquel you are doing it again...the mods are going to pull all of our posts...

I'm not yelling at anybody, and I'm not criticizing either of you. You turned a thread about erections into a thread about knives, though, and I don't see a sign that says you're the only one who can post after you derail a thread. I do see that you said you carry a knife for "more utility than self-defense," but I was simply pointing out that carrying a knife for defense is basically illegal in most states and a bad idea in many situations.

...what a knife can do is give you a quick way to make someone much stronger let go (like in a surprise sexual assault) and then you can get away...

I'm not sure how you think a knife can get you away from a surprise assault where a much stronger person has a hold on you (unless you already have the knife in your hand before you were surprised -- which is illegal), but there's no need to get into that. Since you started talking about knives I just wanted to mention the law for the benefit of others. After all, that's what a forum is for -- so everybody can get information. I'm sure the three of us already have taken a few self defense classes and mostly understand the legal ramifications.

I apologize if it sounded more like I was telling either of you it was dumb for you to carry knives. Like I said, I carry around a pretty big knife myself... but I'm going to have to get that pink DuraCoat on my gun before I get a matching pink knife :battingeyelashes:

http://www.jimsgunsupply.com/DuraCoat/duracoatpictures.html#PINK GUNS!!!!

Zenith

05-13-2009, 02:05 PM

Raquel...I talked about knives in the context of an enthusiast speaking to another enthusiast to make her feel welcome. I did not begin talking self-defense until you did.

There are plenty of very strong, quiet men who have "danced with the bear" that would take issue with your statements...I can send you their names...most are CQC instructors for the Navy Seals/Special Forces, etc...

I read an account by a LEO, basically an enraged large man accosted a smaller weaker man in a bar. The smaller man tried to retreat and do the right thing. He had his work knife. Essentially the larger man kept hitting him and he used the knife to slice tendons/nerves until the larger man could not continue. Essentially he would have been beaten to death had he not acted. A knife is a lousy offensive weapon, but a good last-ditch defensive one. I will not post on this thread anything else about knives. I will PM the original poster. If you want to debate me Raquel, take it to PM...:straightface:

*Edit* I will not be raped or beaten or murdered because of who I am without a fight...

CharleneT

05-13-2009, 03:05 PM

I'm 23,

I consider myself perhaps 65% girl, 35% guy... and I know I want to be of feminine body to match my mind... but I do want my penis to continue to be able to satisfy my partner.

Also, over and over I see transgender info sources mention that you can bump down to a low dose of estrogen after SRS...

but, continuing with my situation of not wanting that.. what do I do? If I take hormones for a while, get results, and then stop taking them to save my penis' function, in later years will I still get male pattern baldness, and start to grow darker/thicker hair back on my body?

Thanks for the help :]

-Rosie

Hi, you are young - so you have plenty of time to think and consider what to do. As others have said, there are no guarrentees about what will happen if you start hormones. There are a host of combinations of hormones that you could take - each with different possible outcomes. You will find there are not pat answers, partially because there is little research and partially because each body reacts differently. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have functional male parts while transitioning, the problem is that it is unlikely. At some point your T production will be very low and that often has an effect of stopping erections. Not always ... again, each person has a different reaction to all this. As well, just because you stop taking the hormones, there is nothing that says you're going to get male functions back.

After SRS, the bump down in hormones is because you do not need as much. Remember, part of SRS is to be castrated. Hence the Anti-A's are no longer needed and the amount of estrogen can be much less. After SRS you are going to be taking some estrogen for the rest of your life ( for general health you need either estrogen or testosterone ).

There is no way to know what will happen years later if you have a short course of hormones. There is very little solid data about TS's and their long term lives and the effects of long OR short term hormone therapy.

The only way you should start hormones is if you are absolutely dead on certain that femminization is your only choice. It is really a one way street - or at least you should view it that way. Truly, if you are worried about baldness etc, seek help for that and leave the hormones for later, if you find you are still wanting that.

Costs: very hard to say, depends on your area labs and your insurance (if any). You may be surprised to find many doctors won't even help you with lab tests, if they know you are taking hormones without an attending endo doc. There are labs that will do the testing without a doc involved, they are expensive. Figure hundreds for one set. At first you may need to be tested frequently.

Hephaestus

05-13-2009, 03:17 PM

Hephaestus

05-13-2009, 03:18 PM

...Sorry to be gross ^_^;

Sharon

05-13-2009, 06:19 PM

Oh, also I think it bears mentioning... the only reason I care to have the penis, is because doctors aren't magical wizards and can't give me a vagina like I'd have been born with if I was in the right body. I feel like I wouldn't be ever to truly orgasm again if I went all the way (If I could *ever* afford it on my budget), and orgasms are just plain nice. :daydreaming:

Actually, this assumption is quite incorrect. It is usually impossible to visually tell the difference between the vagina that one is born with and the one that is created through surgery. And from everything I have heard from those who have had SRS, orgasms do not cease excepting during the healing period.

Stargirl

05-13-2009, 07:04 PM

Actually, this assumption is quite incorrect. It is usually impossible to visually tell the difference between the vagina that one is born with and the one that is created through surgery. And from everything I have heard from those who have had SRS, orgasms do not cease excepting during the healing period.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:pcfnpLvcb3gJ:ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html+inorgasmic+mtf+transexuals&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I suppose a lot of transexuals don't mind if they fail to achieve or experience a potentially "earth shaking, soul stirring, intensely emotional, stress reducing" climax. Still, it must be upsetting to find out that the operation wasn't as promised. I vaguely recall the story about Renee Richards. I had never heard that she was having regrets until I came across this article.

GypsyKaren

05-13-2009, 07:48 PM

A gynecologist would have to do an internal examination to tell I'm a post-op, it's amazing what the better surgeons can do with so little to work with, and they work just fine.

Now then, for you Dagger Jaggers...either talk about the off topic, or argue about it being off topic, but not both, I have some pie waiting for me and I don't like being kept from pie.:tongueout

Karen :g2:

Sharon

05-13-2009, 11:40 PM

I suppose a lot of transexuals don't mind if they fail to achieve or experience a potentially "earth shaking, soul stirring, intensely emotional, stress reducing" climax. Still, it must be upsetting to find out that the operation wasn't as promised. I vaguely recall the story about Renee Richards. I had never heard that she was having regrets until I came across this article.

:rolleyes: Gads, and I could find an endless list of webpages where everything was as "promised" (promised by who exactly?) and, even more significantly, the transsexual was given the body they've been wanting all their lives. No surgical procedure always turns out perfectly, but I would hazard to guess the success ratio of SRS is at least as good as any other major surgery.

You don't want surgery? That's fine and totally your choice. But don't let your ignorance of the issue delude you.

Hephaestus

05-14-2009, 02:49 AM

Well thanks for clearing that up Sharon :) Maybe someday.

For now I am taking it slow, I never wanted this info for right away in any case :] I know how poor I am, even if I decided to start saving today (I have) I'll be saving a long time before I can make a move on this.

Lisa Golightly

05-14-2009, 02:56 AM

As an aside you don't need an erection to orgasm... Given the right stimulation *cough*

Warm in here isn't it... :)

Joan Merrie

05-14-2009, 06:37 AM

As an aside you don't need an erection to orgasm... Given the right stimulation *cough*

Warm in here isn't it... :)

:iagree::D:hugs::love:

Zenith

05-14-2009, 05:42 PM

...I have some pie waiting for me and I don't like being kept from pie.:tongueout

Karen :g2:

Yes I have you pie...you asked for it...:tongueout

Stargirl

05-14-2009, 07:45 PM

:rolleyes: Gads, and I could find an endless list of webpages where everything was as "promised" (promised by who exactly?) and, even more significantly, the transsexual was given the body they've been wanting all their lives. No surgical procedure always turns out perfectly, but I would hazard to guess the success ratio of SRS is at least as good as any other major surgery.

You don't want surgery? That's fine and totally your choice. But don't let your ignorance of the issue delude you.

I doubt that people have any continuing ignorance of the issue in this day and age. They have to go through so much red tape, it's hard to comprehend being in the dark about anything related to such a major change. I was born female, so I don't have to be overly concerned about it. I have complete faith in my ts friends to make their own decisions. They are teaching me a lot, too.

Byanca

05-18-2009, 05:52 PM

Go only as far as you really must go with transition. You have the option of stopping at any point.

In this country there is no in between. Doctors loose their license if they give out hormones to those not diagnosed with GID and have approved SRS from the the board that do this.

The article was a bit confusing. It stated several points why I should not go forward...and in the end why I should...

But interesting it was, although I feel there is a lot of information missing to get the bigger picture.

And as suspected there is a lot of emphasis on passing. And how this can break you down. Also I think about this feeling you have when people look at you like a woman. If this goes away how one can come to regret things.

ChristineRenee

05-18-2009, 06:07 PM

Thank you for posting this link ... I had not read this one before. The warning page is going to be very useful for me and for some trans girls I know, if not for stopping or reversing our path, then at least for making a very thoughtful decision on each step while we go forward.

As I think I have mentioned before on this website, I think transition should only go as far as is necessary to feel comfortable with oneself. For some it means part-time cross dressing. For some others, it means taking anti-DHT medications only. For some, anti-androgens are necessary to block more testosterone. For some others, full range of HRT becomes necessary. For some, mere beard hair removal or FFS (for cross dressers eliminating masculine characteristics) could resolve their entire gender issue letting them cross dress and pass at will. For some, FFS could include more feminization. For some, transition means doing everything for social transition, but not SRS. For some others, it means having SRS too. Each person is different.

Once you get to a point where you feel "right enough", don't do something further just because everyone else is doing so and just because someone else proclaims how happy they are with how far they went with SRS and just because "it felt good so far with transition and it should be even better further ahead". Also, don't continue on the path just because you have made a commitment to yourself or to others. It is okay to be inconsistent with your statements when new evidence arise that increase the reason to question your rationale. It's your life ... if you once said you wanted a vagina down there and now you change your mind and decide to keep your penis, you have the complete authority to change your mind and it is nobody else's business to question or comment about your decision not to proceed further.

Finally, Rosie mentioned in her original message that she feels she is masculine to a certain extent and feminine the rest. I agree with Raquel's statement about this. If you believe that you need to take hormones and not lose sexual function, it could be possible depending on your body and the dosage and duration of hormone intake. It is up to you and your doctors to come up with a plan to do that. Do what you need to feel right about yourself and only to the extent that you really must. Consider other options also which could probably give you what you are seeking (eg. laser for body hair).

Go only as far as you really must go with transition. You have the option of stopping at any point.This is a good post that anyone considering transition should read. You need to find who you are INSIDE before making any decisions...especially any that are irreversible...to chemically or surgically alter your body. Know who you are and how and where you want to be with who you are becoming before make life changing alterations to yourself.

Sejd

05-22-2009, 01:36 AM

The best thing you can do for yourself is to get connected to a sexologist or a good gender therapist. This forum is great for every day support and ideas, as you already know, but the issues you are confronting, especially since you have a partner, are not really great for working out in the public. I whish you luck in finding a loving and caring professional who can help you in your transition.
hugs
Sejd

Hephaestus

05-22-2009, 09:36 AM

I've already located a great one, I think. Dr Maxwell, in atlanta, if anyone's heard of him? I even got my father to agree to help with the expenses, understanding I wasn't going to tell him the issue at hand... :)

Kaitlyn Michele

05-22-2009, 10:33 AM

H,
I think that's great, I hope your therapist is a good one and somebody down atlanta way can confirm it
...btw I googled hephaestus...awesome...

As far as the posts on regret etc.....there are many roadblocks to transition, and they are scary as hell....IMHO there is only one way to get through it and that is self acceptance...

full stop. If you blame others, including therapists, i think that is a huge cop out...if somebody gives you a stock tip and you buy the stock and it goes down, its not their fault, its yours...you bought the stock (although you may wish you never got the tip- just like you may wish you werent transgendered)..

I'm not saying its easy to accept this about yourself....transphobia, family, religion, money and passibility all impact how well you can accept yourself..i did everything i possibly could to NOT accept this and live a "normal" life, and I suffered an extended period of pain and depression, but as I come to accept myself, my problems become just like anybody else's and I try my best to overcome them

Beth-Lock

06-21-2009, 01:57 PM

It was discovered after WW2 that some men generate enough testosterone elsewhere in their bodies to do them even if they have lost their testes, (the cases in question being having them blown off by a land mine developed by the Germans and designed to do this).
The study of the generation of other hormones other than in endocrine glands, has developed since in medical science.

Raquel June

06-21-2009, 02:18 PM

blown off by a land mine developed by the Germans and designed to do this

That's so silly. I would LOVE to see any evidence that the Germans designed a landmine specifically to blow off testicles. Did it have a little mechanical arm that came out and put a hand grenade down your pants when you stepped on it?

Anna the Dub

06-21-2009, 03:03 PM

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:pcfnpLvcb3gJ:ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html+inorgasmic+mtf+transexuals&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I suppose a lot of transexuals don't mind if they fail to achieve or experience a potentially "earth shaking, soul stirring, intensely emotional, stress reducing" climax. Still, it must be upsetting to find out that the operation wasn't as promised. I vaguely recall the story about Renee Richards. I had never heard that she was having regrets until I came across this article.

Interesting article. Personally, I couldn't care less if I never orgasm again for the rest of my life, but that's just me. And surely these people in that article must take responsibility for going ahead with the surgery. No matter what the gender therapists tell us, we know ourselves what we really want, and a lot of us only need their validation because we have to jump through the hoops that the medical profession require of us. I can't understand how someone could go through all of this pain, and therapy as well, and not question whether they were on the right path.