Gender behaviour and identity

[Louistoalana]

(I put this in the 18-25 group, by mistake. I think here there will be mmore readership)

Hey, while surfing the net, researching things. I found that some transgender people did things to remove themselves from the gender they perceived themselves as, for example being very sporty, joining the armed services to get in touch with their masculine side. I'm a bit of a skirt chaser. I was just wondering if any of you have experienced similar things? Typically it is the MtFs who act in this way I found. However I would be very interested to see if any FtMs acted overtly feminine.

[Lisa Golightly]

Hated sport... Couldn't catch or kick anything... Was always one of the last to be chosen on team selection with the various other weeds and girly types.

Once mentioned I might join the Royal Air Force after an argument with my dad (He was career navy) but that was said to annoy him... Would never have fitted in with all the shouting and ironing boot laces...

Rumours did the rounds that I was a bit of a womaniser but it was a carefully constructed PR operation to keep people away from my room while I wrote my essays in nightie and fluffy slippers.

I went through a period of trying to be rufty tufty but it was a bit rubbish really... Too much 'I want my bear' in me.

Nope I just couldn't throw myself into manly pursuits...

In fact all I did was occasionally cut and burn myself in my abject frustration at not being able to articulate my true gender to those around me. My girlfriend knew of course, but when we split word went round like wildfire as she told all and sundryabout me and I became more insular than ever and the cuts became that little deeper... Silly girl!!!

Ah, well... I got there in the end...

But that's the problem with introspection. :)

Lisa x

[deja true]

Louis, Haven't seen Domi (xTwo of HeartsX) around lately, but if you're interested in the FtM version of trying to fit your birth gender role before finally coming to a realization and acceptance of who you really are, see his photo thread that contains pictures of his entire life. It knocked me out when I first viewed it. And I still go back to visit it often.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70886&highlight=Domy%27s+picture

I'd suggest viewing this to everyone here, especially those recently joined. There's never been such a heart-breaking and heart-warming thread. There are lessons here for all of us.

-------------------------

As for me... I've had a bit of that rake's reputation, too, in my earlier days. And I'm still sorta fakin' it, too, as what's-his-name. My little socially backwards and ultra-conservative community demands that men be men. I play their game when I'm in town.

[Louistoalana]

Hated sport... Couldn't catch or kick anything... Was always one of the last to be chosen on team selection with the various other weeds and girly types.

Once mentioned I might join the Royal Air Force after an argument with my dad (He was career navy) but that was said to annoy him... Would never have fitted in with all the shouting and ironing boot laces...

Rumours did the rounds that I was a bit of a womaniser but it was a carefully constructed PR operation to keep people away from my room while I wrote my essays in nightie and fluffy slippers.

I went through a period of trying to be rufty tufty but it was a bit rubbish really... Too much 'I want my bear' in me.

Nope I just couldn't throw myself into manly pursuits...

In fact all I did was occasionally cut and burn myself in my abject frustration at not being able to articulate my true gender to those around me. My girlfriend knew of course, but when we split word went round like wildfire as she told all and sundryabout me and I became more insular than ever and the cuts became that little deeper... Silly girl!!!

Ah, well... I got there in the end...

But that's the problem with introspection. :)

Lisa x

I was never a sportman either, experienced similar at school. I was never in the starting team in school rugby matches for example.

I was in the RAF section of the CCF (Combined Cadet Force) at school too. I knew then that I'd never join the military, unless I absolutely had to.

Self-harm is one the things I hope I never resort to. However it does appear to be common amongst our 'kind'.

When I pursue masculine things as well, I do so with reluctancy and awkwardness, which sometimes shows, sometimes doesn't.

I'm starting to do my studies dressed up too :)

[Shikyo]

I've never really been masculine. I did my best to get out of the army, I was even ready to go jail instead of the army, but in the end they did not want me.

I just don't see a point in trying to be overly masculine, why should we? We still have hour own life, our own character, nothing good comes out if we pretend to be something we are not. Just by trying to be more manly is the same as you'd lie to yourself as technically speaking that would be lying to yourself.

It takes some time to become honest with oneself, but even then to try to be something one is not, will not be a happy life.

[Louistoalana]

Louis, Haven't seen Domi (xTwo of HeartsX) around lately, but if you're interested in the FtM version of trying to fit your birth gender role before finally coming to a realization and acceptance of who you really are, see his photo thread that contains pictures of his entire life. It knocked me out when I first viewed it. And I still go back to visit it often.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70886&highlight=Domy%27s+picture

I'd suggest viewing this to everyone here, especially those recently joined. There's never been such a heart-breaking and heart-warming thread. There are lessons here for all of us.

-------------------------

As for me... I've had a bit of that rake's reputation, too, in my earlier days. And I'm still sorta fakin' it, too, as what's-his-name. My little socially backwards and ultra-conservative community demands that men be men. I play their game when I'm in town.

Very interesting, thank you for showing it to me, it certainly has made me feel more sure of who I am and comfortable with my realisation, rather than thinking it might just be my mind playing tricks. He was absolutely beautiful and feminine as girl, if you saw him as he was you wouldn't be able to tell he had these feelings and shows it can happen to anyone.

It's certainly difficult when people are so ignorant and lack compassion

[Louistoalana]

It also appears that the Goth/emo/scene kid look is a good way for both genders to find their true identity. Unfortunately I have had no interest in that lifestyle (despite the indiscriminate application of make up on both sexes :p). I see myself becoming a sloane princess, hopefully not as obnoxious as some though and I'll avoid ugg boots I think they're so unflattering.

[Lisa Golightly]

Louis, Haven't seen Domi (xTwo of HeartsX) around lately, but if you're interested in the FtM version of trying to fit your birth gender role before finally coming to a realization and acceptance of who you really are, see his photo thread that contains pictures of his entire life. It knocked me out when I first viewed it. And I still go back to visit it often.

Domi was also a fellow 'cutter' (self-harmer).

[deja true]

... I see myself becoming a sloane princess, hopefully not as obnoxious as some though and I'll avoid ugg boots I think they're so unflattering.

Can't wait to see you with a Victoria Beckham haircut! :heehee:

And just wait till your feet are pounding from all those hours in heels, hunny! You'll be knockin' down the shoe store door to get those Uggs. They look really good with skinny jeans! :D

Play hard, babygirl!

[StephanieC]

I was never good in sports...got my nose broken in softball, a concussion in basketball, always injuring myself in simple home repairs, couldn't change my oil to save myself, can't tell a Chevy from a Ford, have never shot a gun, liked going fishing with my dad only for the early morning breakfasts together. But I'm great with cooking, can sew, have a fairly good eye about arts and crafts, have trouble finding clothes in "my size", and have always be interested in womens fashions, particularly legs and shoes. Does that say anything?

[Carole Cross]

I to never really liked sport. I was always one of the last two to be picked for teams at school. I was much happier playing on my own or with the girls.

I used to iron my clothes, cook, clean my dishes after eating, but sadly they have largely declined. I can sew reasonably well, I always fold my clothes after washing. I like to take my time getting ready in the morning, I can never jump out of bed and be ready in five minutes.

I applied to join the army, but because of a hernia was not allowed to sign up until I had it treated. By the time I had the operation, I changed my mind and decided not to join, a lucky escape. :heehee:

Most jobs have been factory jobs, some involving heavy lifting, fabric and electrical equipment. I have never really felt settled in any job.

I absolutely hate my present job and only took it because I had been unemplyed for some time after trying for jobs in my desired occupation, elctronics/IT.

I always used to dresss in private, not really believing I could live as a woman, due to my masculinity, and becoming increasingly frustrated with life. until it became unbearable, and I decided I had no choice but to transition. The other option doesen't bear thinking about.

[Sharon]

I played sports all my life to have myself appear more masculine, but this was more for the benefit of other's opinions of me and not too much for my own need to identify as male. It was actually my father who got me into sports as a child, but I didn't object and I got right into the feeling of competition that sports invokes. In fact, I grew to love sports and participated (and was generally very good at) in many. right up until I blew out and had both knees replaced following an unpleasant rugby blitz. Oh well....

I was definitely never a womanizer, although I did have the very infrequent relationship and one marriage. And the military life never had a bit of appeal for me.

[Kimberley]

I hated, but did athletics for my father, not for myself. The exception to that though came from martial arts which I loved.

Career wise I was a Tool and Die Maker (Turner and Fitter on that side of the pond) then moved to engineering and management. I hated it all because I really wanted to pursue artistic interests. I did it to support my family. Today, I do get to teach it all (part time) and that is satisfying.

Didnt chase skirts either.

Today, I see a lot of wasted effort trying to conform to others ideals in my past. Extend that to waste of life if you want; that is debatable.

:hugs:
Kim

[Melissa A.]

I got very involved in sports at a young age. All my friends were doing it, so it was just something one did. (this was the late 60's and 70's, it wasnt organised. Believe it or not, kids generally dont really need adults to show them how to play games!) At first, I was conflicted, and got bored with it pretty easily. But at some point, even though I was on the smallish side, I discovered that I was very fast and very coordinated. For a confused little boy, who was already crossdressing, and who equated being discovered with the end of the world, This evolved into how I defined myself as a male. As I said, I was never all that big, was painfully shy around girls, wasn't tough at all, couldnt fight and didnt want to, but once I got on the playing field, I could prove I was as much one of the guys as anyone else. Athletics became a major part of my of my secretly non-existant self esteem for decades. ( I played rugby, as well, Sharon!). Taken in the context in which I pursued it, I really dont regret most of it, except for some of the working out I did, leaving me with pretty well-defined biceps that are only now melting away through the magic of HRT. It gained me acceptance and some measure of outward "respect", even though I didnt respect myself all that much. But I do realise I did it for a reason. Denial takes on alot of different forms. For me, it was sports and competition. Since I always felt pretty uncomfortable in my own skin, this brought me some measure of what I thought was "normalness", and of course, I thought that was good. So yeah, many of us do over-compensate until we have no choice but to face and accept who we really are. Also, I got older, I couldnt run as fast anymore! The importance of being good at sports diminishes over time, just as the unbearable pain of my gender dissonance increased exponentially. But I guess it wasn't all bad. I was going to deny this for decades, no matter what, I believe. At least it was in a somewhat healthy pursuit.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[dilane]

Hi,

Utterly uninterested in team sports, picked last, etc. Read Nancy Drew and Hardy boys.

Did like guns and motorcycles during adolescence.

In my 20's I got to a fairly high level (6) at tennis, and running (top 1%).

Not a womanizer by any stretch, now married 24 yrs.

Three of my TS friends were major womanizers, having had from 50 to several hundred women. I came in dead last in that competition :)

[sandra-leigh]

I wouldn't say that I was utterly uninterested in team sports, but only as a friendly game, not taken very seriously. e.g., I (still) enjoy friendly volleyball or basketball (though I don't know if I'd have enough stamina for even one period now), and I used to be a little proud of my ability as a kid to get in the way stopping a soccer run... but I was never good at any of the team sports (e.g., even in soccer, I was never able to "read" the play or to direct the ball, only to block it from where it was going.) I was a kid... running around was part of life, and getting a bit better at (say) shooting the basketball in private practice was pleasing - but it didn't bother me that I was still relatively poor compared to most kids my age.

If I recall correctly, I wasn't picked last for games... usually about 3rd last, and if there were more people that wanted to play than were suitable for the game, sometimes I would still get picked and mostly I wouldn't. But I was never (to my recollection) in anything even remotely resembling demand, no-one coming over and asking me to "Please, come and play?" -- if I happened to be there when the teams were being made, I wasn't always rejected, but seldom was I praised.

The school coaches... not one of them ever bothered to encourage me to try out for something particular, or bothered to mentor me or coach me along the line of "I think you might have some talent in this area; I can help you improve if you are interested". So when it came time for the grade 5 intra-school Track and Field try-outs, and I (completely untrained) came in near about 5th in the school at running, the coaches didn't even bother to speak to me about it and say, "You have some potential there, it's too late for this year's entry but I suggest we train you for next year." That year in the try-outs I came in (again, completely untrained) 3rd in the school in high-jump and (again, untrained) second in the school in long-jump, and was it was a serious contest for the third position in shot-put (I think I became the designated alternative.). Before that, the school coaches had no idea that I might be anything other than an unskilled unathletic klutz... and even having made the school team in two sports, I don't recall anyone taking the time to try to train me up for optimal performance at the games... it guess it seemed obvious to them that since I was "known" not to be any good at any sports, that I would be eliminated in the first round of the real games, so why bother spending time on me? (It happened that due to a stupid childhood accident, completely my fault, that I wasn't able to go to the games; about 3 kids total expressed some sympathy, and the coaches didn't appear to care.) And they didn't try to recruit me for anything the next year.

So the problem wasn't just the other kids: the teachers "knew" I was an athletic failure and ignored me.... which of course the kids picked up on as well.


Grade 7... there was a national set of standards with badges awarded for achievement (not set up as a competition); if I recall correctly, it was called the "Canada Fitness Test", and I think both Grade 7 and 8 took it. Do so many chin-ups in so-many seconds, how fast to run the 440, and so on. Grade 7 was a different school, a different mix of kids than my neighbourhood elementary school, but the "He is an athletic wash-out" vibe had somehow traveled with me. Well, I was (and still am) uncoordinated, couldn't throw, that sort of thing, so there was some justification. Did the fitness test, which was set so that about the top 10% would get "gold"... comparing across the results of everyone else, if memory serves me correctly, I came in as the second fittest person in the school. The bright guy who sat beside me and was likewise considered unathletic (though better than me)... he got the Gold (top 10%) level too. And the table of the "athletic" kids? 2 of the 6 reached Gold (one cleanly, one by a hair),m and the other 4 were no better than Silver. When it came time to recruit and train for the track teams, guess who was ignored, and guess who was asked to try out and given some coaching?


You might have gathered by now that I never gave any serious try to any competitive sport, and that I wasn't given a "fair shake" or any respect for the athletic skills I did have. So the possibility of "pretending" to fit in by immersing myself in sports was never there for me, and it was not something I ever aspired to. But at the same time, it would be untrue to say that I "hated" sports: much closer would be to say that my childhood was a long long series of disappointments that so few could be bothered with me (other than to call me "four-eyes" or "fag" (and that started years before puberty.)

(My main tormentor... I knew he had problems at home and wasn't doing so well at school,, and I knew he didn't actually dislike me... in fact, he was one of the few that did sometimes spend relaxed time with me. Tormenting me... was his internal troubled way to try to create some status for himself with the other kids. I know I understood that by grade 4 at latest.... but it still hurt, hurt a lot, that the public recognition I got from my classmates from about grade 2 to grade 8, was put-downs.)


What does this all have to do with CD'ing? Not much directly, in that I didn't do any CD'ing until 15-ish, and that was just minor childhood experimentation, much less important to me than my joy that my grandfather left a stash of men's magazines at our house. I didn't start cross-dressing until I was about 42 (but, yes, it had been creeping up on me for at least 4 years before that.) The main contribution from my childhood: as soon as I realized I wanted to cross-dress, I knew I was going to do so publicly and not care what people said: after so many decades of living in my own mind, ignored and outcast by society for things I'd never even done, I decided I didn't give a hoot what society would think about my dressing. Mainstream society abandoned me so long ago that mainstream public morals were of little consequence for me. I was already being routinely rejected for no reason;the end result would be no different if I gave them something real (cross-dressing) to reject me for. Perversely, instead society started to accept me -- I am socially noticeably better integrated than before I started cross-dressing!

[Lisa Golightly]

much less important to me than my joy that my grandfather left a stash of men's magazines at our house.

Interestingly, although I had access to pornography as a teenager it did absolutely nothing for me. So while my brother was furtively buying his pornography I was furtively buying Cosmopolitan. We both read our choices in secret from our parents... I wonder which they would have been more horrified by? lol :)

I've never ever got anything from pornogrphy and I've been paid to do some near pornographic photoshoots for the lingerie trade (There's just no beauty in them). Maybe it's just that I never identified with women in that way... less sex and more 'girlfriend' I guess. Hmmmmmm... I didn't like seeing boys bits either as a teenager.... yucky I thought then... I don't think that now *cough* but girls showing off their vagina still does nothing for me beyond me thinking 'I'll have one of those soon'. :)

[onerous]

ftm here, not done anything even remotely girly throughout my whole life.. possibly because i never even had any idea what gender was or that there were differences between girls and boys until i was about 10.. realised who i was around 14-15.. puberty onset tg? unlike most i've seen who seem to be childhood onset.. during my childhood i played with balls.. squishy balls, bouncy balls, deflated balls etc.. kind of a genderless toy i guess. had one doll and one car which i never really liked either of them.

there seems to be a pretty even mix of those who went through a hyper-birth-gender stage and those who didnt. i'd just say we are like cisgendered people in this respect. cisgendered people too, say a guy who identifies as all guy but has some feminine interests/leanings.. he might feel pressured by peers to conform and therefore result in hyper masculine behaviour.. while on the other hand he could also just not care what others think and just be who he is, avoiding the male activities that he doesn't like... it's the same for us isn't it

[Diane24]

I was never a sports person but never played with dolls either while growing up. Usually got picked last for teams in gym class. Didn't get excited by Playboy. I guess I just grew up "in the middle of the road" sexually. I did have more female friends than guy friends. My girl cousin (who I was quite close to) did talk me into dressing up a few times, but it wasn't the heart-stopping thrill or sudden realization of who I was supposed to be kind of thing. As I remember, it was fun but not something I wanted to do all the time.
I began having doubts in college during a human sexuality course. It was a wonderful class where everyone joined in the discussions seriously. Within a year or so I experimented with crossdressing and by my Junior year was more or less dressing full time. I think the sexuality course woke me up to feelings I had ignored. Anyway, it has worked out very well.