Dressing and Behavior

[msginaadoll]

Had an interesting experience last night. I went out to a local gay/lesbian friendly bar to meet my friends. All of us were dressed on the more sexxy side of the scale. I wore a jean miniskirt/ tank top with a black sweater over it. My friends were dressed similar-some showing maybe a little more skin. There was one GG(genuine girl for those unfamiliar-sorry if term offends anyone). We were aproached by a yonger couple they introduced themselves and the lady gave everyone hugs. She turned to the GG in our group, grabbed her breasts and asked "Are these real" Well needless to say the lady who is a sweetheart was none to happy. It looked like she was ready to throwdown. After she calmed down we talked a bit, she saying that had never hapened before. The lady appeared somewhat drunk, and she may have also assumed our friend was another cd or possibly transsexual. It got me to thinking that maybe our style of dress caused others to feel like they could behave in a certain way. Maybe they saw us as more free spirits, ****s whatever u want to call it. I know for a fact that I am treated differently depending how Im dressed. I have never had my but grabbed when wearing a longer skirt or dress or when trying to appear more ladylike. It is only when I go for that certain look I draw that attention. I am not saying that right just wondering if others have experienced the same and maybe there is a little lesson/life experience to learn from it.

[celeste26]

There is never any excuse for such bad behavior even if drunk.

[PretzelGirl]

There is never any excuse for such bad behavior even if drunk.

:iagree: If I went out dressed and someone did that, I would not be happy either. There is a definitive line in public.

[carhill2mn]

I agree that there is no excuse for crude/rude behavior and being drunk certainly is no excuse. I do, however, think that many CDs need to learn lessons similar to what young GGs learn, namely, that the image that you present will influence how others see you and what they will think about you.
I remember discussing this with my teenaged daughter at one time.

[Sarah...]

It got me to thinking that maybe our style of dress caused others to feel like they could behave in a certain way.

Then the "others" would have a problem that they need to sort out.


It is only when I go for that certain look I draw that attention.

A reality check for sure. It's bad behaviour on their part.


maybe there is a little lesson/life experience to learn from it.

Sure is. People often don't take your feelings into consideration in their own behaviour and women the world over have to, unfortunately, learn to deal with this stuff, cos it keeps happening.

Sarah...

[sabrinaedwards]

Hi Ms. Gina, I have gone to lesbian bars dressed. I always call and ask if cross dressers are welcome. I have had great experiences in those venues. Welcome to the site.

[Fab Karen]

How you are dressed does not CAUSE the behavior. It's likely that drunk crude woman would have done the same if you all were wearing jeans.

[Rachel Morley]

How you are dressed does not CAUSE the behavior. It's likely that drunk crude woman would have done the same if you all were wearing jeans.

Exactly! ... it was probably a GG who had a little bit too much to drink which gave her some confidence to be brazen with the tranny's standing in front of her, yet she was so "not with it" she failed to realize one of them was a GG! It was gonna happen anyway regardless of how you were dressed in that particular circumstance, with that particular woman I think.

[TSchapes]

I don't care how provocatively I dress, there is no reason for someone to grope me! Male/female I don't care. How I dress is how I feel at the time. If I want to feel sexy, then I may dress more sexy, but that does not, repeat, does not give anyone license to grab my boobs, or my a**.
:angry:

Sorry, people need to take responsibility for their own actions!

-Tracy

[Ralph]

Well...

I know most people are going to ignore this anyway, but let me start out by stressing that THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR PHYSICAL ASSAULT.

That said: If you dress "provocatively", you're going to provoke. That's what the word means. Just because some drunk jerk doesn't have the right to grope doesn't mean he/she won't. The more you draw attention to sexual characteristics, the more you'll find some of the less civilized members of society are going to respond with sexual aggression. Again, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. But they're still going to do it, even though it's wrong. So you can either dress as provocatively as you want, get grabbed, and (if you are so inclined) take them to court, or you can dress to draw less attention to sex and that way make yourself less of a target.

Cue all the responders angrily telling me they have every right to dress how they want in three... two... one...

ralph

[MissConstrued]

I rather get a chuckle out of it when girls grab my boobs... there's not only an innate irony to be appreciated, but it does give license to return the gesture, so to speak.

As to the topic -- drunk people do some dumb things now and then. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

ZOMG! A woman touched another woman's breast! Call the fuzz! File the lawsuit! WTF has gone wrong with this country? Don't answer that.

[Lisa Golightly]

If anyone grabbed my boobs I'd slap them.

[trannie T]

A few times drunk women have felt up my boobs, I have not reciprocated unless they asked me to feel theirs which I have done with pleasure. These instances have all happened late at night in a cocktail lounge, I believe that the time and the venue allow a certain relaxation of behavioral standards, and the behavior would be unacceptable in other places.

[Presh GG]

Oh I so agree with Ralph !
As a GG we have learned from a very young age we are going to be treated as we present. If we go out looking " ****ty " we will be treated as such.
I feel so bad for the gg who was type cast simply because she was in the company of the gurls that evening. That was very wrong. But really I've seen many GM's treat a gg this way , even to the drunken point of asking inappropriately " How much "? Now that's sick !
When you were / are in guy mode is that the kind of lady you would like to consider dateing ? Bed maybe but not a serious relationship , AM I RIGHT ?

springtime

[JacDoe]

<grab back>
"Yeah, but these obviously aren't".

You mentioned that she had hugged everyone in the group.

She hugged TG's 1-X, and then hugged the GG and thought they felt more natural. So, she grabbed and said "are these real?" which was a bad decision.

Not appropriate, but people do a lot of inappropriate things when they're drunk.

Would it have happened if she weren't with a group TG's? Eh, probably not. But I don't think it was "well, your body is public property since it's not real" or "you put yourself in the open by dressing provocatively" so much as it was the contrast in feel during the hugs and an impulsive decision not inhibited by normal social protocols because of alcohol.

She was at the gay/lesbian friendly bar, and came up and greeted all of you warmly at the onset, after all.

[battybattybats]

There is never any excuse for such bad behavior even if drunk.

Not so.
This is a fallacy society needs to reckon with.

Alcohol impedes the function of the part of the brain that restrains impulses that normally screens masses of constant mostly totally unconcious impulses from the impulse-generating part of the brain.

This part of our brain function was learned by science after a brain tumour that reduced bloodflow to the restraining part of the brain of one man had him suddenly experiencing pedophillic desires out of the blue. When the tumour was removed the desires vanished.

With alcohol anything may be done by anyone and it excuses everything.

In which case I wonder how anyone can morally or ethically ever consume alcohol? Maybe if they drink at home, alone, with a time-delay lock on the door so they can onlly get out when having sobered so they can only possibly hurt themselves.

Alcohol is a known factor in cases of Assault, Domestic Violence, Rape, Murder and Child Abuse as well as many other crimes.

Our culture relies on alcohol to self-medicate to reduce our social inhibitions. The result is myriad harm. Protecting the alcohol dependancy with the denial that something imbibed mainly to change behaviour may in fact change behaviour is ludicrous. Our culture needs to grow up and stop relying on the drug of alcohol and especially to stop pretending it's harmless or that personal responsibility remains undiluted when its primary use is to impede normal brain function!

[Patricia1]

AS Forest Gump would have said "Stupid is as stupid does". I remember walking to work one morning behind a fabulous looking GG - just a great figure in a somewhat revealing outfit. I admired every inch of her from behind. At one point we passed a few construction workers who eyeballed her with plenty admiration. As I passed by a second or so later I heard one say to the other "no wonder they get raped". I remember being outraged that people should think this way and told them they should be ashamed of such flagrant language arguing that that could be their sister; they fell quiet and sneered at me. She should have every right to look any way she pleases without fear of molestation. My point is that we can't prevent stupidity from coming to the fore.

[Tanya C]

I have to agree with Ralph and springtime that if we dress ****ty we may run the risk of being treated with disrespect. In this extreme case the GG who was accompanying you paid the price for the lady's appropriate conduct, and that is not acceptable.
Next time you should either go without the GG or try not to dress so provocatively. It's the ladylike thing to do.

love always,

Tanya

[MissConstrued]

Alcohol is a known factor in cases of Assault, Domestic Violence, Rape, Murder and Child Abuse as well as many other crimes.


It's also a known factor in millions, perhaps billions, of cases of getting laid. I'll wager the good outweighs the bad.

And judging by the fact that alcohol consumption is rising with the falling economy, I suspect it's keeping many folk sane in bad times -- more than the number who end up addicts in the gutter.

Everything has a bad side and a good.

[The Gas Man Cometh]

Not so.
This is a fallacy society needs to reckon with.

Alcohol impedes the function of the part of the brain that restrains impulses that normally screens masses of constant mostly totally unconcious impulses from the impulse-generating part of the brain.

This part of our brain function was learned by science after a brain tumour that reduced bloodflow to the restraining part of the brain of one man had him suddenly experiencing pedophillic desires out of the blue. When the tumour was removed the desires vanished.

With alcohol anything may be done by anyone and it excuses everything.

In which case I wonder how anyone can morally or ethically ever consume alcohol? Maybe if they drink at home, alone, with a time-delay lock on the door so they can onlly get out when having sobered so they can only possibly hurt themselves.

Alcohol is a known factor in cases of Assault, Domestic Violence, Rape, Murder and Child Abuse as well as many other crimes.

Our culture relies on alcohol to self-medicate to reduce our social inhibitions. The result is myriad harm. Protecting the alcohol dependancy with the denial that something imbibed mainly to change behaviour may in fact change behaviour is ludicrous. Our culture needs to grow up and stop relying on the drug of alcohol and especially to stop pretending it's harmless or that personal responsibility remains undiluted when its primary use is to impede normal brain function!

As long as people are still punished by the law when commiting a crime under the influence of alcohol, then I'm happy. Even when a person gropes another indecently when drunk, they CAN be held responsible for that action by their CHOICE to GET DRUNK in the first place!


It's also a known factor in millions, perhaps billions, of cases of getting laid.


Sure, now count how many of those times of getting laid are CONSENTUAL!

[battybattybats]

As long as people are still punished by the law when commiting a crime under the influence of alcohol, then I'm happy. Even when a person gropes another indecently when drunk, they CAN be held responsible for that action by their CHOICE to GET DRUNK in the first place!

Ah but getting drunk is no crime in most of the world. And once even mildly drunk a person cannot logically be responsible for their actions as they turned the responsibility part of their brain down or off with the alcohol.

Banning alcohol is dificult because being one of the wolds most popular addictive drug theres a lot of the worlds economy wrapped up in it, it's easy to manufacture and while only a portion of the population has the genes to make chemical addiction likely there is also the large amount of psychological dependancy ensuring enough demand to make criminal supply lucrative.

So a harm-minimisation strategy is the most likely sensible way to deal with alcohol. And that still requires totally restructuring how society deals with it.

A drunk person logically cannot be held responsible for any crime committed solely while intoxicated. Punishment cannot serve as a deterrant to someone who is drunk. So its a wasted excercise that does not serve the community or reduce crime.

As for sex... there's been plenty of sex in cultures where there was little use of alcohol. We simply need to be braver and more open-minded without dulling our senses to do so.

[The Gas Man Cometh]

Ah but getting drunk is no crime in most of the world. And once even mildly drunk a person cannot logically be responsible for their actions as they turned the responsibility part of their brain down or off with the alcohol.

Banning alcohol is dificult because being one of the wolds most popular addictive drug theres a lot of the worlds economy wrapped up in it, it's easy to manufacture and while only a portion of the population has the genes to make chemical addiction likely there is also the large amount of psychological dependancy ensuring enough demand to make criminal supply lucrative.

So a harm-minimisation strategy is the most likely sensible way to deal with alcohol. And that still requires totally restructuring how society deals with it.

A drunk person logically cannot be held responsible for any crime committed solely while intoxicated. Punishment cannot serve as a deterrant to someone who is drunk. So its a wasted excercise that does not serve the community or reduce crime.

As for sex... there's been plenty of sex in cultures where there was little use of alcohol. We simply need to be braver and more open-minded without dulling our senses to do so.

See, when a person chooses to drink, 9 out of 10 of the people that I know personally drink TO GET drunk.
Now, they aren't totally ignorant as to what goes on in their behaviour once they are drunk. Knowing the shit that can happen whilst drunk, and seeing what does happen, is the basis of where they can be punished.

Example:

Man A is a habitual drinker. He goes to the pub, drinks maybe 5 schooners [I'm ignorant on how much alcohol it takes a person to get drunk, but every body is different] and gets drunk. He is hassled by drunkard B, and they have a fight in which Man A smashes a cup and glasses Man B, he wouldn't do this while sober.

Now, BEFORE he got drunk, Man A knows what type of shit happens when he is drunk. He would know if he is a violent drunk, a lazy drunk, etc etc. So, as he made the CHOICE to drink until drunk, ANY CRIME commited there after makes him liable to be punished for!

[battybattybats]

See, when a person chooses to drink, 9 out of 10 of the people that I know personally drink TO GET drunk.
Now, they aren't totally ignorant as to what goes on in their behaviour once they are drunk. Knowing the shit that can happen whilst drunk, and seeing what does happen, is the basis of where they can be punished.

Example:

Man A is a habitual drinker. He goes to the pub, drinks maybe 5 schooners [I'm ignorant on how much alcohol it takes a person to get drunk, but every body is different] and gets drunk. He is hassled by drunkard B, and they have a fight in which Man A smashes a cup and glasses Man B, he wouldn't do this while sober.

Now, BEFORE he got drunk, Man A knows what type of shit happens when he is drunk. He would know if he is a violent drunk, a lazy drunk, etc etc. So, as he made the CHOICE to drink until drunk, ANY CRIME commited there after makes him liable to be punished for!

Ah but while there can be a pattern to someones behaviour when drunk there is always unpredictability. I've seen usually quiet drunks get rowdy. I've seen two people who are very anti-drink-driving who non-one would think would drink and drive end up drinking and driving.

So then as anyone could do anything when drunk, and past behaviour is not an adequete predictor then unless someone takes adequate precautions against harming others (which would need them to drink alone in a paded cell I expect) then they cannot drink safely, morally or ethically.

In which case of law is going to be involved it should be to ban consumption of alcohol except under these safe conditions and to shut down those places serving it except under those conditions.

[The Gas Man Cometh]

[With Batty, settled in PM. Just thought I'd let everyone know?]

[Carin]

With alcohol anything may be done by anyone and it excuses everything.


I absolutely disagree.
Alcohol may be a reason for a lot of bad behaviors, but it is not an excuse. Most people are aware of the effect of alcohol on their-self. Most people are aware of the buzz as they get drunk and continue to do so voluntarily. Inebriation may be the reason for the behavior, but it does not excuse it.

In this particular case the young lady made a serious error in judgement, for whatever reason.

I'm not sure if how you were dressed is even related. You all looked like you were out to have fun. How others respond to that will vary all the way from good to bad.

[Teri Jean]

There is no excuse for bad behavior and if I were there she would have met a very unhappy patron. I have had a couple ask if they could feel and that maybe the only way they could go that far. Incidently my response was if I could do the same. No takers. LOL Point being no excuses.

Keli

[Kelli Michelle]

I have seen many women dressed provacatively, and none of them have ever been groped by another woman. Never!!!! This was a drunk woman groping what she thought was a "tranny". So, let's not get into the "you get what you deserve by dressing that way" crap. That sounds like the kind of a stuff that was put out years ago, by men and even some women.:Pullhair::Angry3::Angry3:

[CheekyGirl]

Drinking is no excuse for acting like a fool and harassing a person. They may make rude comments, but once they physically bother you it isn't excusable anymore.

[battybattybats]

I absolutely disagree.
Alcohol may be a reason for a lot of bad behaviors, but it is not an excuse.

Why? We are discussing responsibility right? And responsibility requires judgement and alcohol impairs judgement.


Most people are aware of the effect of alcohol on their-self.

I disagree. I'm certain most people are aware of a small part of this drugs effects on themselves but that the drug itself makes them un-aware of much of it and also skews their perception of that experience while they are experiencing it and in the formation of memories afterwards. Studies on the dopamine aspects of this bear this out.


Most people are aware of the buzz as they get drunk and continue to do so voluntarily.

But even small amounts of alcohol effect judgement and alter perception. Once a small amount is imbibed the chance that more will be increases. On top of that their are the social and cultural pressures to drink. I think we can safely say that imbibing any alochol is irrisponsible, that it's supply, sale and production is irresponsible too.


Inebriation may be the reason for the behavior, but it does not excuse it.

I do not see how it cannot be a total excuse for the behaviour. Instead there seems little excuse for anyone not-yet addicted to drink nor for society to allow that drinking to continue in it's current death-causing high-cost-to-society manner.


In this particular case the young lady made a serious error in judgement, for whatever reason.

After any amount of alcohol gets into the brain her judgement was impaired and she cannot be held responsible logicly. It's like someone having a temporarily paralysing drug injected into their muscles resulting in them barely able to crawl then being blamed then for not being able to walk very well.

It's a common popular belief that an inebriated person retains personal responsibility because society would rather blame the scapegoats of intoxicated people than to honestly face the reality of the drugs effects.

But that is merely a way to protect other drug-users from having to face their own drug-use or to have it sensibly restricted to safer usage only.


I'm not sure if how you were dressed is even related.

I agree.


I have seen many women dressed provacatively, and none of them have ever been groped by another woman. Never!!!!

I have! And in fact I saw a drunk woman flash the woman standing beside me repeatedly while groping herself not long after groping that woman before going on to forcibly tongue kiss an unwilling man. Later than night this drunk woman slept with the sober ones also drunk boyfriend and when caught there was a long drunken argument in front of me in the middle of the street with the two caught in the act being publicly naked. All of this happened in January this year.


So, let's not get into the "you get what you deserve by dressing that way" crap. That sounds like the kind of a stuff that was put out years ago, by men and even some women.:Pullhair::Angry3::Angry3:

Yes. There is still a lot of sexism we take in unconciously as we grow up and victim-blaming for sexual assault because of 'provocative' clothing worn is very much one of them. Something many women I've known still adhere to.

[Sally2005]

I had it happen to me once. At a party the woman asked me, "you are a guy arn't you?", to which I said, "uh,, yes" and then she grabbed them. I was a bit shocked and didn't know what to do (I had a few beers in me and I'm sure she did too), so I just shook it off as a party gag, but I still felt violated because suppose I did have real breasts or I was a woman pretending to be a male or something?... it is just not appropriate. I can understand she might have thought it was just padding, but risky.

[MissConstrued]

I think we can safely say that imbibing any alochol is irrisponsible, that it's supply, sale and production is irresponsible too.




I almost forgot -- there's another positive social effect of alcohol consumption.

It can turn self-pitying sanctimonious twats into people one might actually want to be around, if only for the duration of the party.

I think H.L. Mencken may have said something similar.

[battybattybats]

I almost forgot -- there's another positive social effect of alcohol consumption.

It can turn self-pitying sanctimonious twats into people one might actually want to be around, if only for the duration of the party.

I think H.L. Mencken may have said something similar.

Please don't get yourself banned by throwing around insults. Not only do I like you and would miss your presence there is no gain in it only lost opportunity. Instead why not try to address the issue intelligently?

Just have a look at the costs in lives and dollers from alcohol-related injury and health problems as well as the cost in crime and treatment of alcoholism and it's emotional impact on their families.

Once you do if you have the courage to do so you will see the cost is staggering.

Then consider that traditional punishment by jail has not been effective and that the neuroscience shows that once drinking people cannot be considered responsible.

Still we need to do something to protect people right? So how can that be done? Especially as prohibition was a massive failure.

[Karren H]

Think I would have grabbed hers until tears came to her eyes!! I'm sure glad I don't frequent places like that!! Friends shouldn't let friends drink and crossdress!!

[Kerrie Sifton]

What... she grabbed her boobs? I thought thats how we are all supposed to greet one another. And instead of asking "are those real?" it should have been "are you for real?"

So next time you are out, just don't make it too obvious when you snuggle up to a girl and note how lovely her mammary glands are.. TG or GG!!
and maybe say something encouraging like: "those are REALly lovely!!!."

:D