I @#$% titles

[Byllie]

Here's the story ... for the longest time I've felt at odds with what most of you do vis-a-vis crossdressing. Not that I feel what you do is wrong; on the contrary, I commend you for your courage. But, I'm starting to realize that I am not you, in several ways.

First, I do not wish to be a woman, nor do I wish to look like a woman. I also do not wish to look like a man.

So what to do? I started surfing the net and found the term genderqueer. Oooh, do I dislike that term, mostly because it smells of sexual preference, and I am most definitely heterosexual. Then again, there's the alternate term, gender non-conformist. A bit of a mouthfull but it feels better to me. Of course the abbreviation would be GNC, which is probably trademarked. <grin> So let's use NC.

I used to think that I was somewhere on a male-female spectrum, but now I feel I'm somewhere else on something more than a simple spectrum. I am most definitely not a crossdresser in the manner most of you are.

What I'm curious is whether there's a place for a NC like myself on this list. Your thoughts?

[trannie T]

No two of us here are alike. We each bring a unique set of needs and desires to this forum. You seem completely normal.

[deja true]

Why not, Byllie?

If you have an interest in gender issues...

If you have questions about gender issues...

If you have something to say about gender issues...

You belong here!

Sure there are a lot of MtF cd's here, but that doesn't mean a lot of us aren't interested in all aspects of this fascinating subject.

Pick a label if you want. Ignore labels altogether if you want.

We're still listening!

:)

[Joni Marie Cruz]

This is a pretty big tent, Byllie, you can call yourself anything you want, I can't imagine anyone here objecting. Hmm, oddly enough I have a cat named Encee (NC) which she was dubbed with because she's the New Cat. She's a non-conformist as well.

Hugs...Joni Marie

[DaphneGrey]

Yes I think there is room here for you we are all different, so be yourself and stick around.

[Dressing Jill]

Hi Byllie

You fit in here. Hang out a while and you will start to answer some of your questions

[suchacutie]

When I joined this group in 2005 I had just once dressed as a woman for my wife from the waist down, and then she had tried one of her dressed on me. I was confused and scared for my internal self, for my relationship with my wife, and for what this all meant.

My first encounter with this forum was almost bizarre! I found men and women here who were at, from what I could tell, every point in the spectrum between the genders, and many, like myself, flip and flop back and forth.

The one thing that knits us all together is what our minds make of all this. The outward appearance is just that: an outward manifestation of the mental process surrounding our struggle with gender. It seems to me, from what you've said in the start of this thread, that you fit perfectly into this mental process. The outward appearance that many of us strive for takes a lot of time on this forum, for sure. Well...it's hard!!!! But what we go through in our minds is really the key issue in the long run, and unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like that is where you are as well.

I, for one, would be very interested in your thoughts on the various topics of gender and what that might mean, how we act whenever we are projecting "the other" gender, and, maybe just as important, how we act when we are presenting our biological gender, as one clearly affects the other.

I am biologically male, but I know that much of my life is now not what would be classically considered "male". Just one look at my bathroom sink would confuse the heck out of my parents (which is why a lot of it disappears when they arrive!).

So welcome to our little community trying to figure out the meaning of life and all that gender stuff! It's a heck of a road and we are better of with you here, and I hope we can help you as well!

:2c:

tina

[Mrs. X (gg)]

Hi there!

You are challenging gender roles hun... you have lots in common with some of the members here :D

[sissystephanie]

I am, therefore I will be! I think that says it all for me!

I have no desire to be a woman, no real desire to look like one now that my dear late wife is no longer here to do my makeup and fix my wig, but I do like to dress like a woman. So yes, I am a NON-CONFORMIST! Or as I prefer to be called, a Rebel!

I was at a convention this past weekend, and most of the guys there were wearing jackets, shirts and ties, and nice slacks. I wore jeans and a polo shirt. When asked why I simply told them, "I am a Rebel!" Even the CEO thought that was funny! Maybe because this was my last convention!! My choice, BTW!

We are all different, as many have said, and thank God for that. Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same? Viva La Difference!!

[Karren H]

Don't like something? Just make up your own for Petes sake.. How about.....

http://www.animatedgif.net/facessmiles/anisun_e0.gif GENDERIFIC!!! http://www.animatedgif.net/facessmiles/anisun_e0.gif

Yeah!!

I'm copy writing that.. So if you use it you will have to pay me a royalty every time you say it.. Supliment my retirement account..

[Butterfly Bill]

You ain't the only one who doesn't mind looking like what he is, a man in traditionally woman's clothes, and I too sometimes feel alienated by all these people here who want to pass all the way to the goal line.

[sandra-leigh]

In my circumstances, what I say is that I self-identify as "transgender" but not "transsexual". Which means to me that although I was raised male and act more or less "male" more of the time than not, that something in me knows that "pure male" is not the correct description for me.

I've never bothered with voice or acting lessons or anything like that; maybe I'm just "lazy" about it, but I know that I do not feel driven to be "as female as I can get". But doing things like getting on a city bus with a male face and a blouse that isn't too fancy, and forms, and a skirt that is unquestionably a skirt but is not designed to be attention-attracting... not only can I do that, not only do I do that, but it feels comfortable to me. Sitting there on that bus in that skirt... I don't feel like a freak, I don't feel like I'm the center of attention, I just feel happy, feel that I'm doing the right thing for me.

Dressing up completely in a wig and some makeup and a dress or clothes that are vert obviously feminine... that's fun too. But when I do dress up fully, it isn't that I really feel that I am a woman... but it isn't something that "pure men" do, then I'm something other than a "pure
male". And I'm not unhappy about that: being a "real man" is not something that is important to me. Wearing a dress, whether it be a classic one or a classy one, is also something that "feels right" and comfortable to me... or at least does when I have my wig on. But the wig isn't a disguise for me and it doesn't "transform" me from male personality to female personality. It is more more like the wig is an excuse: when I wear it, people (including the many who "read" me within in seconds) are willing to accept the fully-female clothes and the noticeable bust as being appropriate and acceptable for me in that time in place, and treat me well; and lots of people just overlook me, in the "there is nothing at all strange going on there, this doesn't require my conscious attention". But it is true that there are a bunch of clothes that I'm not comfortable wearing when I am "gender-bending" but that I am happy to wear if I look more like a woman (woman's hair). I don't feel like a "different person" when I'm Dressed Up... more like due to internal social inhibition there are (ill-defined) limits on how "female" I'm willing to appear with a male face, and putting on the mask of the wig frees me to wear the dresses and skirts. To re-emphasize, the wig isn't a "disguise": so I can pretend I'm someone else: lots of people recognize the "male" me when I'm Dressed, lots of people have seen me both ways and say that I look good dressed... but the wig does allow me to step over some boundaries with ease that I would otherwise have trouble with.

And The Bathroom Question becomes confusing and difficult for me if I'm natural hair and no makeup but "presenting" otherwise in obviously female clothes, especially ones that are supposed to be attention-getting (through their colour or pattern, not necessarily "sexy" at all)... men's room when I am wearing something that has an obvious bust is hard for me. And yes, I do sometimes go out with male face but with a top or blouse tailored to emphasize the curve of my "bust". Being seen in public[/I} as "a guy with some breasts" is something I don't mind.... I'd be happy to have noticeable real natural breasts and I wouldn't "bind" them at work or other places I'm supposedly "male" if they were to somehow magically appear. But public (or work with responsible adults) is different than going into a bar washroom with guys you don't know...

I don't feel the need to be a woman, or even the need to "pass" to 95% or whatever. I [I]would prefer if 95% of the cab drivers didn't refer to me as "sir" when I am fully Dressed and looking good... it would be kind of nice if, when I took the trouble to Dress up, that even (say) 1/3 or 1/2 of the people did think I was female and referred to me as such -- but it isn't something that I lose sleep over.


The term that sometimes gets used for people like me is "androgynous". Somehow I don't feel it has quite the right connotations for me, but it does at heart mean roughly "combining male and female characteristics". The pseudo-science tests that are available on the 'net rate me as a little on the male side of the center line... which is more female than I would rate myself if it -must- be a single axes. But I don't think it's a single axes, or even a small number of axes; I think it's probably very complex. And people like you and I, I think our main difference is that we know that we don't fit the traditional categories, not male, not female, not transsexual.

The people that give me hope and faith are the one's who have gone 24/7 non-op and are accepted in the world. They give me hope that some day I too can dress however I feel is right for me and still be accepted as a person.

[Byllie]

Many. many thanks to all who chimed in, and so quickly. I guess what I meant was is that I've been on this list for quite some time, but a few months ago felt put off by all the folks who *show off* how well they can pass as a woman. Which got me to thinking, was this the right list for me? It *seemed* as if the list was populated by those who wanted to make it all the way to the goal posts (thank you Butterfly Bill).

There is, on occasion, talk about the *gender spectrum*, but what I read is mostly about gender extremes, or rather the need to present oneself either fully masculine or fully feminine. IMHO, it's never that simple.

For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? For those who usually go out fully dressed, would you ever consider a half-half approach?

It seems as if we speak of the spectrum but in our (loosely used "our") actions we choose one extreme or the other. Where are the members who simply live who they are, and disregard gender labels altogether? Where are the members who do like being referred to as he or she, and prefer a third alternative?

If you're there, please speak up. I'll be listening.

[kay2]

For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? ...

I never go for full-on femme, and am not interested in passing. My nails are long and red, and I usually wear rings and bracelets. Sometimes I wear a skirt with hose, and sometimes I wear heeled boots. I don't have a separate femme persona. I've never thought of my dressing as being strange - I just think I am a little less repressed than most men:)

[sissystephanie]

For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? For those who usually go out fully dressed, would you ever consider a half-half approach? Where are the members who simply live who they are, and disregard gender labels altogether? If you're there, please speak up. I'll be listening.

Byllie, I already answered you! I am ME, therefore I will be! I live who I am, and don't care what others may think!! No more and no less. A guy who enjoys wearing feminine clothing, that is me! Sometimes totally feminine in clothing, sometimes partially. But never trying to pass with makeup and wig. And BTW, since I am a man and not trying to pass, I always use the mens room, no matter where I am or how I am dressed!

[HappyErica]

I think I am like you.. And using a term from one of my favorite actors/comedian Eddie Izzard... I am an executive transvestite. I admire how great the gals here look but I dont want to look like a woman.. I just want to enjoy girly things while still being an guy. I love painting my toe nails, usually in boy colors, dark blues or greens or black; I love wearing bras and panties but under my guy clothes and I have ventured in to skirts, but ones that look good on me and not feminine. I am just going to dress and be myself because it makes me happy. I am happily married and I am glad my wife lets me try out new things

[CharleneT]

Don't like something? Just make up your own for Petes sake.. How about.....

http://www.animatedgif.net/facessmiles/anisun_e0.gif GENDERIFIC!!! http://www.animatedgif.net/facessmiles/anisun_e0.gif

Yeah!!

I'm copy writing that.. So if you use it you will have to pay me a royalty every time you say it.. Supliment my retirement account..

K - That is a GREAT term !! I love it ... ;)

[battybattybats]

.
For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? For those who usually go out fully dressed, would you ever consider a half-half approach?

Every week!
While I do go full-femme around the house and a few occassions out that way my 'male' expression is always a mix. For example see this old pic thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89282 and these days it's usually purple or dark red lipstick. Many of my clothes in boy mode are womens including boots, tops, pants and coats. If I have time to get ready I often wear eyeliner too.

While you may not like the term genderqueer its the most often I've seen used because the term 'queer' was suppossed to unite all the people oppressed together when it was coined: Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender, Intersex Polyamorous Kink and far more than that. There's even Queer Theory and Queer Studies courses at universities! But there are plenty of variants. I like the term Genderfree better than Gender-Non-Conforming because of it's liberty aspects.

For me my comfortable range goes from somewhat feminine male to fully femme. But its just another example of the myriad permutations of life. I dont mind terms as they can be self-affirming and community building.. so long as they are self-applied and do not involve others limiting you to a stereotype.

I am Goth, Transgender, Crossdresser/GenderQueer, Intellectual, Geek, Artist, Writer and far more things as well. None limits me, each describes a facet of me. I am a gestalt, more than the sum of these parts, but the terms do describe parts of who I am.

[Nicole Erin]

It is best to not claim a particular label anyways cause as soon as you do, people will be challenging it.
This is particularly true if you call yourself a TS. Especially on a forum.

Funny isn't it? There is no test to determine for certain if one is TS CD or what, yet some folks in the gender community think they have the answer... Especially the ones who are further along.

Yeah I have had my fair share of "you are not a true TS" or "you are not just a CD" and it is annoying but listen, don't let anyone run you off.

So how do I identify? I identify as a pain in the ass. :devil:

[linnea]

whatever you are or whatever you want to be, good luck

[Mirani]

Current thoughts about lables has the simple "Transperson" in use to describe anyone on the trans spectrum wherever they are, from occasional underdresser to post op.

It is as useful as saying I am "European" - it helps to place me somewhere in the world so I can be generally located, but it doesn't say exactly where I am .. just like being trans ... as we travel around within the eurozone sometimes staying in one place and sometimes moving forwards or back.

So, dont worry about your label, just stick around a while and see if you like this watering hole in the land of Trans. If you like it, stay. If you dont, bon voyage :).

Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy your stay.

[GaleWarning]

I just think I am a little less repressed than most men:)

kay2, your comment is wonderful!!!
It sums up how I feel, too.

[MissConstrued]

For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? For those who usually go out fully dressed, would you ever consider a half-half approach?


I have.


You seem completely normal.

Well, that's not a very nice thing to say....

[docrobbysherry]

There r THOUSANDS of us on this site alone. Yet, I haven't met anyone that CDs just as I do, or has my exact same CD circumstances! And ISN'T THAT WONDERFUL?:)

In this life we have SO MANY options available to us! Take 1 from column A, 3 from column B, skip colum C altogether! Probably no two CDs here r EXACTLY the same!:eek:

So, what should u call yourself? To describe EXACTLY who u r? How about; Byllie?:D

[Carly D.]

Labels have always been ... needed for people to understand what they are looking at or what they are about.. gays and all the names that go with that... cross dressers and all the terms that go with us.. I guess we have to let people name what they see.. what am I?? where do I fall?? well I dress in womens clothes, don't exactly pass in a well lighted area.. my own feeling is I would take cross dresser over perverted weirdo any day of the week...

[DonnaT]

Yes, I've got out as a guy in a skirt, or wearing jewelry, or makeup or nail polish, etc.

I wouldn't say I was androgynous, however, because without the wig and makeup, I simply look like a guy in a skirt. Which I have no problem with, and dress that way most of the time.

And I've gone out fully enfemme.

Wearing clothes designed and meant for a woman (even if not fully enfemme), makes me a crossdresser. And I consider what I do to be a result of being transgendered.

[JulieC]

Many. many thanks to all who chimed in, and so quickly. I guess what I meant was is that I've been on this list for quite some time, but a few months ago felt put off by all the folks who *show off* how well they can pass as a woman. Which got me to thinking, was this the right list for me? It *seemed* as if the list was populated by those who wanted to make it all the way to the goal posts (thank you Butterfly Bill).

There is, on occasion, talk about the *gender spectrum*, but what I read is mostly about gender extremes, or rather the need to present oneself either fully masculine or fully feminine. IMHO, it's never that simple.

For example, have any of you ever gone out with a mix of masculine and feminine clothing? Some makeup (or not)? A little bit of jewelry? For those who usually go out fully dressed, would you ever consider a half-half approach?

It seems as if we speak of the spectrum but in our (loosely used "our") actions we choose one extreme or the other. Where are the members who simply live who they are, and disregard gender labels altogether? Where are the members who do like being referred to as he or she, and prefer a third alternative?

If you're there, please speak up. I'll be listening.

:wave:

I've never attempted to pass. It's not a focus of mine.

For me, a perfect world with regards to gender presentation would be one where I could wear whatever I want to wear, appropriate to the occasion, regardless of who it was "designed" for, without the necessity of attempting to pass to avoid harrassment, etc.

I really enjoy pantyhose and heels, among other things. There are days I go to work underdressed, but before I put on my male shoes and socks I'm wearing pantyhose and heels. I think it looks good. I'd prefer to go to work that way, but I can't.

I don't really care about spectrum, or definitions, or anything. I just want to express myself as me. For me, trying to live 24/7 is not a goal. Transitioning is not a goal. If I did either of those things I would ultimately feel just as awkward as I do at times now, when I can't present myself as me all the time, since I'd be forcibly stopping myself from presenting my male aspects as well.

I don't feel unwelcome here because of how I view myself. I have other reasons for that :)

[Sheila]

Sweetie, YOU are YOU pure and simple :hugs:

[Byllie]

Your encouragement is overwhelming. Thanks!