want to venture out but i can't pass

[Aprilsunshine]

I'm 6 feet tall and have a rather large nose pronounced jaw and brow. so i can't pass. but all i want to do is go out and be a normal girl. any advice?
~ April

[MJ]

aww i can't pass either and i'm full time. just go out be yourself 95% of the people you meet don't care anyway

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I don't pass either... regardless of how my photos look. I was read very quickly last weekend.

I don't have any great advice aside from try to find things that minimize your nose, jaw, and brow. If you can do bangs, that might hide your brows. Your nose and jaw might be masked a little in the way you do your makeup. It won't help your profile view (the nose), but it may help overall. I think the jaw might be minimized in the way you wear your hair as well.

I've got a pretty big nose, too. No hiding that thing in my side-profile view. Oh well.

Good luck, April. :)

[Elvira]

When it comes to facial features there's always the art of make up , but when it comes down to the size of your feet or hands, people would probably notice ! Who cares anyway ? As long as you are happy with who you are as a person That's all that matters. Take care! Your gal pal in S.A. ! Elvira.

[Teresa Macaw]

Go to the Tri-Ess web site & search for a local group. Call/contact & join them or a local support group. It is always easier with others. If not near one of those go to a local GLBT bar, usually they are totally open & you may meet others there. Or put a post on here & try to meet up with someone. Great FUN!!! Teresa

[Karren H]

Passing is over rated, in my humble opinion. And its all about attitude!! 5% looks and 95% attitude.. So go out and be confident and smile and have fun!! Its a blast!!

[Sarah...]

Yep. What they all said :)

Think about it, you're only required to pass as you - not someone else. So that's confidence, attitude and just knowing who you are.

Sarah x

[FionaO]

I'm 6 feet tall and have a rather large nose pronounced jaw and brow. so i can't pass. but all i want to do is go out and be a normal girl. any advice?
~ April
I see from your avatar that you are also slim have beautiful long legs and your profile says that you are only 23 so you have a lot going for you.
I am only 5' 6" and have a fairly unisex face but I am also 54 and have a squat frame. So take what you have and make the best of it.
Fiona O

[Veronica75]

I can't pass either, but I just went out for the first time in a LONG time (another thread entirely) and just... well, did it. It helps to be in the NYC Metro, as crossdressers, while not something you trip over all the time, are certainly not particularly rare either.

[Nicki B]

Why do you think you need to be taken as a genetic woman, before you go out? Try letting yourself be a trans-woman, instead? ;)

[Peka TG]

April, Hon,

Think Positive,:) your 5' 12" tall just like me. You have a large nose, guess what? so do I. you have a pronounced jaw, lucky you, mine recedes within a 1/2" of my neck. and don't even talk about four heads, mine's a five head it's Huge!! :doh:

But guess what... I'm out everyday!! I've been full time for 2, almost 3 months now.

Go out... have Fun... and don't care what other people think. You'll do just Fine

Huggs
Paula

[linnea]

aww i can't pass either and i'm full time. just go out be yourself 95% of the people you meet don't care anyway

I think that this is really valid. I'm 6'0", weigh 250+, have broad shoulders, etc., but I go out and have a better and better time of it every time I do.

[Christina Horton]

I have the same prob. But I am 5/10 260 pounds and I don't fully pass. But unlike you I don't care what people think anymore. I wrote 2 threads you should read. 1st one. Named. I don't pass but do I care what the public thinks yes&no. 2nd one is. I just had a revlation about my shoulders (wierd eh). I figgered out a few things about myself and I could not be happer with myself. Read them and see if they could help. Worked wounders for me could help you.

[Intertwined]

April... Listen to Karren, she has got it right


So go out and be confident and smile and have fun!! Its a blast!!

A smile, big grin, for me is like a shield, because it's almost impossible not to return a smile when greeted with one, also, when smiling, show those teeth, The Closed Smiler, (not showing teeth) isn't letting you in and isn't showing you their real self.

I don't try to pass, I gender blend, so I always get stares, and LOVE IT !

This is an image of me shopping at Lowe's for a new chainsaw blade, taken by the SA that rang me up.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=927&pictureid=9644

[sandra-leigh]

I don't pass either... regardless of how my photos look. I was read very quickly last weekend.

The closest that I know of, from actual feedback, of a woman actually thinking I was a woman, was at a CD/TS party; and the woman involved had decidedly had a fair bit to drink. On the other hand, she's a drag king (and I believe she's somewhat FTM), and even after seeing all those fake drag queen boobs, she thought my 40G's were real because they were completely natural looking to her. (One other woman, at a different time and place, also specifically said that she thought my 40G's were real.)

So I might have a one feature that looks realistic in the right clothing, but I can tell you this: when I get in a cab, no matter how I'm dressed and what I am carrying, before I say a single thing, the cab driver is likely to ask "Where would you like to go, Sir?". I've had one cab driver call me "mam" and either believed it or was polite about it. One other cab drive did call me "mam", but kept trying to get me to talk -- the sort of conversation you use to get someone to say something, anything, so that you can confirm your 90% suspicion that they are male.


Bars:

I've had a woman who had seen me precisely once[/I} before from no less than 20 feet away, looking from a brightly lit place to a dark place (i.e., hard for her to see anything in my direction clearly), when I was in male mode wearing stealth (nothing a typical guy would pick up on, even a lot of women would have missed it). The second time we met, she glanced out from at least 120 feet away, across several graduations of light and dark, to where I was sitting in half-light, fully dressed (wig and all), and she immediately hurried over to me and said (not at all impolitely) that she recognized me from (the other place) and she was happy to see me there, and that I looked good. Seen [U]once in drab in poor light, recognized me from a stance in full drab.

Whatever the reason, a lot of women recognize me very quickly drab or drag, no matter what I'm wearing, even from a distance and in bad light. Their typical reaction, if they don't immediately come over and compliment me, is to smile warmly and to wave and to make a point of coming over later to say hello -- not to try to pick me up, not to insult me, but because they appreciate the effort or because they enjoy my company.

The guys... when I'm dressed, the guys often don't "see" me -- as if I'm just another person occupying space but not worth even focusing their eyes on. The ones that actually look my way, I don't know whether they "see" a guy or "see" a woman, but either way they seldom "double-take", as if I'm projecting "There's nothing unusual about this person" field. I am sure that some guys "read" me, but few of them appear to care; the occasional small group laugh briefly amongst themselves upon seeing me, but they very soon turn their attention to something else.

Women have never tried to "pick me up"; two guys have tried, one who was very polite about it and knew I was a guy (and stayed for conversation after I politely turned him down); the other guy was very drunk and pushy and wasn't sure whether I was male or female but didn't care; the staff told me had been hitting on a number of other people earlier. I refused to tell that second one even what gender I was (apparently) born as; I had no trouble speaking honestly (if perhaps boringly) to the polite one.

Overall reaction when I go out dressed: most people don't notice or don't care, but a non-trivial number of women come over of their free will and talk, and after a few seconds of conversation basically intended to establish that I'm polite and not there to perv, they are often willing to speak to me of matters that they would speak about to the average bar-attendee (I don't mean sexual matters: I mean talking about themselves, telling facts that a woman would not tell a guy until she was fairy confident he wasn't a stalker.) And having seen me Dressed once, it isn't uncommon for them to come over and say hello if the next time they see me I am apparently in drab, and to continue to trust me.


The one time I've had trouble? When a woman came over to me, complimented me on how beautiful, and then got upset when I wouldn't immediately say that she was beautiful. Not that she was of ill-appearance, but to me beauty usually has some kind of transcendence, and she just didn't have it. Attractive, perhaps, but not what I could honestly say "beautiful" to. I've seen (and talked to) some women who have had feature spreads in major soft-porn magazines (and hard porn too, some of them) but they weren't "beautiful" to me; on the other hand, the chubbiest dancer I've ever seen, a woman who was booed off the stage for being "too fat": to me she was beautiful (but not in a lust-inducing sense.) What's inside, not what's outside. Anyhow, seems I was right in my assessment of whether that woman was beautiful or not: she went over to her boyfriend, lied to him that I had said she was ugly, and tried to rile him up to confront me, including suggesting to him that I was an undercover cop. (I went over to him and established to his satisfaction that I was just a cross-dresser; I wouldn't say that he liked me, but he didn't make any trouble for me.) I talked to some of the staff later, who indicated that the woman had been doing drugs and getting drunk all night, and who confirmed that I had never caused them trouble and was quite welcome in their establishment. Now, a beautiful woman would never have acted like that woman did, so my answer to her was honest about my feelings and turned out to be correct. On the other hand, I learned something about "tact" when dealing with drunk stoned women. No guy has ever tried to cause trouble for me when I've been Out, but "the woman scorned"... beware!


In case you you missed the warning in big bold letters when you signed on to the forum: I tend to be verbose. But I do have a point: that dress decently, be polite, be confident, smile, and most people probably won't give a hoot about you even if they bother to look at you long enough to read you (and remember, for me, the average "read" time is measured in fractions of a second, even in bad light.) And the rest, the ones who see you -- well, if your city is anything like mine, most of them will be too self-absorbed to give you any thought, and a lot of the rest will be sympathetic or outright friendly.

Last time I wore a skirt on a (busy) city bus while in "guy mode?" The only real reaction was that the (female) bus driver good-naturedly reminded me to hold up my skirt a bit while climbing the stairs in a skirt that long (and yes, I was tripping on it at the time, so the caution was appropriate). When I eventually got off the bus, two young teenage girls [I]might[/I} have giggled at me briefly, but considering they weren't even looking in my direction, they were probably giggling about a text message they had just received.

Have confidence in yourself, dress within limits of the norms for the socio-economic class of the places you will be, look like you know what you are doing, and chances are excellent that few people will even remember that you were there. Fretting and looking nervous and watching people too closely are all "victim behaviours": if you don't act like a victim, you'll be amazed at the places you can go. (But walking solo through the middle of a gang would probably still be unwise, just like it would probably be unwise for a solo GG.)

I know the "have confidence in yourself" is hard to "bootstrap": if you have a social dressing group in your area, visit with them, learn from them, dress in front of them.... and you'll be amazed at how quickly the confidence can appear. For some people, all it takes is going to one meeting and going out Dressed with the gurls to the coffee shop afterwards: watch that first step, it can be a dozy!

[trannie T]

It would be nice to pass, unfortunately for me it ain't gonna happen. I still love going out and do not plan to stop.

[Greymancd]

I do not think that I could pass but I would still like to go out. I would like to try it in a city where there are few people who know mw so that I would not have to worry about meeting someone I know. I guess it is my fantasy to go away with my wife and share the experience with her get a nice wig fitted and professional make-up and then go out shopping and out for the evening. Maybe this will happen maybe not but I keep thinking about it.

[slamddoger]

iv seen women on baskball team that is over 6 feet tall as on pass if you act like a women then pople will take you to be like one

[CharlotteW]

Without reading all the other replies, here's mine.

This 'passing' thing really is a mind-scr3w isn't it, but it doesn't have to be that way. You just need to understand that it's all in your head. Your thoughts are the only barrier stopping you form doing just what you want to do.
Just a few short months ago I had to park my car in a certain postion on the driveway, make sure the car was fuelled earlier in the day, make sure I knew exactly where the car keys were in order to make an unhampered get-away before I even contemplated going out dressed. In contrast, last night I just left the house, walked down the street and waited about 25 minutes for my wife to pick me up. Our only concern was for our children. Seriously, the neighbours would never have guessed it was me in that skirt and heels so why worry.
Just a few short months ago I had problems just looking at shoes on the racks, nevermind actually buying them.
Now, I just browse the aisles, trying on shoes 'til my heart's content. If anyone makes eye contact with me I just smile. Heck it's their problem not mine.

Eye contact is your biggest problem. As soon as you make eye contact with someone it's like communication between minds, it's final confirmation that you have been noticed and singled out for being different to everyone else around you. As soon as the eye contact is made you'll be thinking "oh my god, they've 'read' me and they think I'm a wierdo" and the adrenaline rush will put you into 'fight or flight' mode but I can assure you that isn't quite the case. OK so they noticed that you may be a little different than others, but that thought passes in seconds and someone else (or something else) will become the centre of their attention almost immediately.

Another thought...there are some really unfortunate women out there in the real world, well unfortunate in their own minds anyway. Those women were not blessed with the feminine attributes we see on the front of glossy magazines. Do those women assume that everyone who has looked at them is about to attack them in some way. The answer is no, the just get on with their lives, confidently.

So go out with confidence, don't make eye contact and be prepared to laugh, at yourself. Heck if you can't laugh, how can you expect anyone else to.

[Super Amanda]

Why do you think you need to be taken as a genetic woman, before you go out?

Who said anything about genetic? She just want's to be normal...



all i want to do is go out and be a normal girl. any advice?
~ April


And Charlotte, I have to disagree with this...



don't make eye contact

You are spot on everything else in your comment, but avoiding eye contact is a no-no. Nobody looks more suspicious than someone who won't look you in the eye.
I say, stand tall, shoulders back, chest out and look them square in the eye and smile! I learned that from this very site years ago, and it really works!

[Carly D.]

I think, after reading a few responses, that a good number of us don't pass.. so what to do?? I don't pass either my avatar doesn't show my face, and if I could get around and have people see that as me then that would be great.. but the best of my pictures are very few and the ones that show my fem side without looking male are nearly none.. I'm a male cross dresser, or more to the point I try to look like my male self with hair (wig) but really no makeup (lipstick aside as well as nail polish) and so I look more or less like a male wearing womens clothing and hardly passable.. my advice would be "pick your fight".. which is to say decide what is important about going out.. is it just being outside then go somewhere secluded.. if it is being seen in a controlled atmosphere then go to a small store or library.. if it is all out then go to a super walmart or target or that type of store.. then there's me who controlled as much as possible by going out late at night (I can pass if it is dark or extremely dim) and got gas at a gas station/convenience store type of thing paying by credit card, no personal interaction..

other things to think about if you really feel like passing, well one thing for sure, YOUR VOICE: if it is important to pass then voice has to be there as well.. I don't have a voice for my fem self so that is part three of my three part strike out.. I believe Karren Hutton said it best "passing is over rated" I think that is true, just go out and try to wear what you want to... have fun..

[Sally2005]

YES you can! Just do your best. No one passes 100% of the time. Even GG don't pass all the time (if you critique every feature)! The best way to start is to post some images and ask for feedback. You will get better at it. I think we all start out not believing we can and confidence is low. I think the desire to pass comes from being scared we won't be accepted. The thing is, people do accept you for the most part if you try to look respectable. You may have some people wondering, but not many people will bother being rude to you (most will just keep their distance). In fact most people will go out of their way to make you feel welcome if they interact with you.

[CharlotteW]

Amanda666, I'm sorry, perhaps I should explain better. When I say "don't make eye contact" I mean don't look at everyone straight in the eye,
wherever she is.
Under these circumstances it is human nature to look around for peoples reactions and therefore any percieved threats whether they exist or not. Call it paranoia if you like.
We all know that the level of threat in the middle of a town is almost zero but a crossdresser with the perception that they really do stand out like a sore thumb (UK phrase) and will draw attention to themselves is bound to feel extra vulnerable.
So if she is looking at shoes on a rack, then she should look at the shoes, not look around to see who has spotted her. In other words act like she is simply shopping and don't be concerned with who may be (but probably isn't) looking at her.
If she is walking through town there is no need for her to be looking at every passer-by to see if they have spotted her, instead, look at the shops, the buildings, her phone, whatever she likes but not the face of everyone she passes.

Personally, I'm quite strong willed and have broad shoulders (metaphorically speaking:) ) so I'm happy to deal with any situation that comes my way. I have (if youy like) trained myself to go about my business as if it were an everyday occurrence to be out and about while dressed.
However I understand that not everyone is fortunate enough to be so strong willed and sometimes they need ideas to help them cope with the paranoia, albeit unfounded paranoia. Telling someone to "stand up and be a man, errr I meant a woman, err well perhaps look like a woman... but in a manly way...oh you know what I mean" has never worked for me.

[Kristen Kelly]

Passing is over rated, in my humble opinion. And its all about attitude!! 5% looks and 95% attitude.. So go out and be confident and smile and have fun!! Its a blast!!

Totally agree with Karren. Passing is over rated all you have to do is blend, dress to where you are going, have the confidence to go where you want to, and act like you belong there . I do this go anywhere and everywhere. I go out locally not totally afraid to run into someone I know the neighbors have all seen me. I dont look that much different in "drab" as dressed. For a pic of me in drab check out this post

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1540501&postcount=26

[Carole Cross]

April, I do not pass and I an transitioning. I do not really care about what others think, I am just going to be myself and enjoy the rest of my life, domething which I have denied myself for too long. Since going out I have discovered that most people don't even give me a second look, there have been a few comments but nothing nasty or offensive and I just ignore them.

If you act confident when going out, I know it's hard the first few times, you should find that people will barely notice you. If you are a little inexperienced with using makeup, then I would suggest having a makeover. They may be a bit expensive, but IMO they are worth it because it shows tou what can be achieved, you may be suprised by the results. You may not be able to recreate it staright away, but it wont take long before you reach a certain level of competence and that, in turn, will help with your confidence when going out.

[Super Amanda]

Amanda666, I'm sorry, perhaps I should explain better. When I say "don't make eye contact" I mean don't look at everyone straight in the eye

Oh, I do understand what you mean... like don't try to see if other people are looking at you. I like your mind set. Also, I've always used the phrase "stick out like a sore thumb", and hear it a lot here in the U.S.A.. Also, I'm sorry if I came off like a b****! I just really believe in eye contact.

[sabrinaedwards]

Hi April, here are some things that you can do. First, consider glasses and wear them part way down your nose. In that way yuour nose looks less large. Although you are tall, high heels make the length of your foot look smaller. Finally, you need to have a positive, relaxed attitude. Sometime when you are at a mall or large downtown area, do some people watching. A lot of GG do not present themselves very well.

[Nicki B]

Who said anything about genetic? She just want's to be normal...

Do you mean those who aren't born genetically female aren't 'normal', then?? :idontknow:

Let's not have an argument here about what passing means, nor what you call those born anatomically female..


I say, stand tall, shoulders back, chest out and look them square in the eye and smile! I learned that from this very site years ago, and it really works!

I think that's very important - if you send a message that you are nervous, or ashamed, it will attract attention. That doesn't mean always looking to see who's looking at you - but it does mean meeting the eyes of someone who does. And when you do, SMILE at them - they instinctively smile back.. :)

[Trip_rockcity]

im 6ft8!! dunno if that helps? does it?.. i can help you out with a few tips?

[Fab Karen]

Eye contact & smiling- do it if you feel like it. I live in a world-reknown metropolis where if you looked everyone in the eye, you'd not get where you are going. And smiling at everyone you passed, your jaw would be sore at the end of the day. If I had a dollar for every GG who isn't smiling, I'd be rich.The point is, act as nonchalant as you do in boy-mode in public.