Femininity Parts 1 and 2

[Sarah Doepner]

This is a two part question. There is a lot of talk here about getting in touch with our feminine side, but I get the feeling that we have some different views of what that means. I'd like to see some of the definitions that we are using. Think about it before you move on to part two.


But the part two of this post is the hard one. Once you have your definition of feminity in hand, are there ways to touch that part of your world without crossdressing? Does your dressing improve the ability and if so, does it go away when you are back in male clothes?

Skirts, by themselves, don't help me become more empathetic and a dress isn't necessary for me to communicate effectively with my loved ones. I can be gentle with my grandkids without worrying about my makeup and I can be strong and supportive of others without a wig or heels. I can even wear a good Aloha shirt to cater to my need for smooth, colorful clothing. I'm getting the feeling that touching my feminine side isn't necessarily what's driving my desire to dress, but it is a hell of a good excuse.

This inner monolog I've been having is pushing me in strange ways and would like someone else to help me wander through this question.

[Karren H]

This is almost like a beuty pagent question! Lol.

I think that feminity is everything women have and I don't... Its something to strive to but never really attain... Ohh and I'm for world peace! (Smiling and doing a little cute beauty pagent wave). :D

Well since I haven't dressed since January.. I've almost forgotten.. But being shaved and eplited and sporting thin eye brows and shopping pretty much aim me in the right direction.. Ohhh and working hard towards that world peace thingy.. (Do you get extra points for mentioning world peace twice?). :)

[Sarah Doepner]

You do get points for mentioning Whirled Peas twice, but you forgot to say something about feeding the poor starving children. Nice curtsy however.

And I do understand about doing the things that head me in the right direction. I guess I'm just not sure what that direction is called any more. It does feel good and as I've mentioned before on other posts, there is a lot to be said about the escape part of this activity. I'm just trying to get a handle on the femininity thingie.

[DonnaT]

What is your definition of feminine, Sarah?

I have no wish to be female nor do I have a wish to be feminine. Maybe some CDs wish for one or the other and maybe even both, but I imagine many of us do not desire either one. We are guys that have this need to wear women's clothes.

My aim is to satisfy that urging any way I can. Sometimes it may result in a fantasy image, but most times it just results in an image of a guy in a dress.

There are a number of traits shared by men and women thought by many to be feminine. Nurturing, gentleness, or able to cry at a sad movie, to name a few. Question is, since men also have these traits, why are they called feminine, instead of simply just human traits?

I reckon some traits are considered to be feminine because more women than men exhibit them, but some men do exhibit them. And truth be told, a fair number of men exhibit them.

So, if we define these traits to be feminine, aren't we, as a society, forcing men who exhibit them to think of themselves as less than a man? Or reinforcing society to think that way? Does that not put pressure on boys to 'act like men', and force them to hide some of their shared natural human qualities?

If we think of nurturing or gentleness as human instead of feminine, then men may be more inclined to develop those aspects of themselves. If we think of boldness and assertiveness as human instead of masculine, then women may feel welcome to foster those aspects of themselves. We will all benefit from having more freedom to be the individuals we are.

Now, to be fair, I do throw the label 'feminine' around. However, I reckon I do this to identify a number of things society considers to be exclusive to women, such as describing a pair of high heels or a dress. However, I don't think wearing that dress makes one particularly feminine. I put on a dress, and it's just me in a dress. May change the way I feel, but it doesn't make me feel more feminine than I already am.

Women wear pants, an item of clothing considered to be 'masculine', but does that take away from a woman's natural femininity? Of course not. How can we take away one's natural traits by changing the clothes they wear?

For some, wearing clothes designed for women does make them feel more feminine, but I think that is because it amplifies those traits already there, but hidden because of what society considers masculine or feminine. I don't think it makes them more feminine.

And for some, it takes a little more than wearing clothes designed for women to feel feminine.

However, as I mentioned, the clothes don't make me feel more feminine. They don't make me feel feminine because I don't really know what feeling feminine is.

Maybe I'm missing out? Don't know if I am or not, but I do know I like to dress up. :D

[deja true]

Donna's taken the thoughts and words right outta my brain.

What many of us consider to be feminine may really be 'effeminate' if we're talking about behaviour. Swinging hips and loose jointed arms are not really the things that I'm concentrating on (though I do try to match my actions to my presentation.) That's just an aesthetic thing.

The goal for me, and it's happening, is what Salandra (remember her?)/ Arianna calls "integration". A realization of that 'human-ness' that Donna is talking about. Allowing myself ... permitting myself ... to become deja has started that process ... and I don't think any differently in either mode. It's just that both modes think the same ... with more empathy for all people and ideas.

No, we're not really answering either one of the questions directly, are we? It's just that we have a different take on the issue, I guess. I'm not striving for the "feminine". I'm striving for to be a good 'person'. Deja helps with that... a lot!

:)

[tricia_uktv]

I'm afraid I don't know the answers. What I am trying to do is strip away the male conditioning within me and just leave me as I'd love to be. My male side has to be different as I'm bringing up children - but I've noticed that however far I try to remove that from me, bits will still remain.

What I do know is that since dressing seriously I have become more open, accessible and friendly. I think that is important.

I am living two lives so for now I can't really reply. Very interesting questions though!

[Kate Simmons]

What Deja is referring to is really maturing and "growing up" so to speak to become a well rounded articulate person. Being "masculine" or "feminine" is no more needed than it is to be purple or polka-dotted. Truly being ourselves is the ticket in more ways than one it seems. The more we hone that skill, the more realistic(and the more human) we become.:)

[sissystephanie]

Donna makes some real good points. I have thought for years that both men and women frequently exhibit traits which are generally considered to be those of the opposite sex. I know that I do! I am, at least I think I am, gentle, nurturing and caring. Those are all considered feminine traits. But I feel that way whether I am wearing a skirt (as I am right now) or am dressed in total drab!:brolleyes: It is just who I am!!

Why are those traits considered feminine? Because society says so!! Just like society says men should be strong and tough! Maybe we need to get a movement going to change the definitions! Karren's not dressing right now so she has time to lead the movement! Right, Karren? You could earn some more "points!":heehee:

[GaleWarning]

My personality is androgynous, so there is no sense in taking about my masculine or femme side. When I want to, I can flaunt a more masculine peronality, or I can do the same for a more femme personality, but it is always over the top and obvious.
No, I crossdress because I like to wear women's clothing, especially the under garments; and because I feel strongly that men ought to have the same freedom as women to wear what they want.
So, the part of my character which is most strongly at play is my acute (some would say overly acute) sense of fairness.

[Sarah Doepner]

Thank you all. I particularly like what Donna had to say;

"So, if we define these traits to be feminine, aren't we, as a society, forcing men who exhibit them to think of themselves as less than a man? Or reinforcing society to think that way? Does that not put pressure on boys to 'act like men', and force them to hide some of their shared natural human qualities?

If we think of nurturing or gentleness as human instead of feminine, then men may be more inclined to develop those aspects of themselves. If we think of boldness and assertiveness as human instead of masculine, then women may feel welcome to foster those aspects of themselves. We will all benefit from having more freedom to be the individuals we are."

This brings me back to ideas and trends that were developing waaaaayy back in the 60's. The concept that we could create a gender neutral environment for children so boys could play dolls and girls could play baseball if that's what they wanted. And soon boys and girls were doing pretty much what they would have been doing anyway and the steam blew out of that movement. But it created a little bit of a lingering effect that more than anything else contributed to the feminist movement. Men really haven't seen anything that corresponds to that, except for the very short-lived 'metro-sexual' style thing.

And I appreciate the concept of integration, bringing the best of the person to the focus rather than determining which traits will be acceptable just because I am a male.

As for my definition of femininity, it's still being developed. I just don't want to use that as an easy explaination for my dressing. I'd just as soon say I do this because "I really like the way it makes me look and feel", or "it's fun", or something else altogether.

I just don't think it's getting me in touch with my feminine side, or is it?