One of the Girls

[Kathi Lake]

For the past few months, I have been helping a group of young (and very cute!) ladies at church on Wednesday nights in the kitchen. We've kind of bonded a bit, it seems. At times, I've gotten strange (but knowing?) looks at some of my comments and/or observations. I noticed when one got her hair highlighted (apparently her husband didn't). When someone was looking for one of the ladies, but didn't know her very well, I said "Oh, she's the one dressed in a black ruffled skirt, a sleeveless dark blue mock-turtleneck and black open-toed slingbacks." Oops. :o One of them turned to me and said that even she didn't know what she was wearing and, by the way, how did I know so much about ladies clothes? I said that I was just good with details. I've also been called "metro boy" and "you are such a girl" by them a bit as well.

Today, I was helping them clean up and I heard them clicking by in their heels. I turned and said something like "Gee, the click of heels tell me that the Gorgeous Gossip Patrol is passing by." They said "You need to grab your heels and join us. We know you want to. Come on! You're one of us!" We laughed and went back to cleaning.

Later, one of them was helping me with the dishes and told me that her mother-in-law, who was visiting, said that she must be a black widow, since she was on her third husband (gee, what a wonderful thing to say). We talked about that for a bit and later another one came in and complimented her on her outfit. I piped up and said that what she should have worn was a black outfit with maybe a bright red sweater to look like the black widow she is. The other one said, "You told him?!" She said, "Of course! He's one of us. He's, I mean She's just one of the girls, right?"

I so much want to tell these ladies just how much I really am one of the girls. I know that one of these times that I'll probably mention that I should show them pictures sometime of a "Halloween costume" perhaps. :)

How about you? Have you ever been included in "the club?"

Kathi

[Gennifer]

Kathi,

I have had similar experiences and some of my friends and colleagues are amazed that I can walk out of an even or party and remember what everyone was wearing! I haven't had the comment that "I am one of the girls," for a while, but I think my gender sense is pretty well recognized. Still, I am not ready to go that extra step and share pictures. That, for me, is still pretty scary.

[linnea]

Not to this extent, but I have participated in some conversations that included information about clothes and make-up, and when I seemed to be knowledgeable, I got some "looks." I attributed it to my theater background and experience, but I wanted to say that I knew because I spend a lot of time in women's clothes, wearing make-up, etc. as a crossdress and that I'm just one of the girls too.

[StevieTV]

One time at work I was walking & talking with a female aquaintance of mine and one of her friends (I know her to see her but that's all) and my friend said I was such a princess. Her friend corrected her and said don't you mean prince to which she responded no, I mean't princess! I wasn't officially out with her, but I did have a habit of commenting on her outfits now and again. She has the most amazing pair of high heeled leather boots.

[LisaM]

I have been in a similar situation and, yes, I took it as a compliment----but my SO didn't. And since I am not out she felt it reflected poorly on her so she asked me to respect her boundaries.[-][/-]

[Kathi Lake]

I have been in a similar situation and, yes, I took it as a compliment----but my SO didn't. And since I am not out she felt it reflected poorly on her so she asked me to respect her boundaries.[-][/-]Very interesting thought, Lisa. I'll think about that.

Gennifer, you mentioned a "gender sense." Is it that obvious to women where fall on this divide, do you think?

[kynw08]

The roommate who'm I came out to earlier this month looked at me and goes "oh my god, it all makes sense now! Maybe I should have taken you shopping"....

[Gennifer]

Kathi,

At the risk of making generalizations that are not true for everyone, I would say that in my experience women tend to be more intuitive then men, and because relationships are so important for women, they pick up when someone, either a man or a woman, for that matter, connects with them around things they pay attention to or care about. But, and here's the big caveat, I know many men, and particularly gay men, who have the same built in sense and who are just as intuitive so I don't think it is just a male/female thing. A friend once commented to me that sex is down here (you can guess where she was pointing) and gender is up here (pointing to her head). I think she was making an interesting point.

[5150 Girl]

Well, at may last job, everyone knew, and i was very much one of the girls.
My church on the other hand is quite conservitive. I don't think such things would fly there.

Nevt time they call you "one of the girls" you should say somthing about dressing for Holoween and offer pics... If they bite, then maybe take it further........

[Kathi Lake]

Gennifer, that may be a gross generalization, but one that I believe is right on track. My gender is a part of me as much as the other dangly bits are a part of me. They seem to intuit which one is my true self.

It seems I've just always connected better with women. I've found that with women, you can actually have relationships. You can actually have conversations. Perhaps I'm making another generalization, but one I've found to be true. In these relationships with women - even if I don't slip by saying something only a woman would know - they do seem to "find me out." You know what? I'm fine with that.


My church on the other hand is quite conservative. I don't think such things would fly there.Conservative? I'm a deacon at a large Southern Baptist church in Utah. It doesn't get much more conservative than that! :)

Maybe I'll bring up the Halloween idea as the last time I dressed for Halloween, it was at a church party.

Kathi

[Dressing Jill]

Really nice story

I been getting a lot of there goes the girlie, when I get to talking. Sometime I can get carried away and lately it is so. I have lost 40lbs in last 3 months and I feel great and it reflects in my attitude it is like being a new person. So I take more changes on things that I say like little compliments.

I'm really happy for you Kathi. I know that it means a lot to you. I also think that you are very sensible about your surroundings and think things through. I am sure that whatever you decide to do it will be the right choice for you.

[Dressing Jill]

Kathi

I can't agree with you more about having a conversation with women. Men seem to be stuck in the mud. And a relationship. I was talking to a GG friend this week about that same things and she said that she has two friends that she can carry a conversation with and I was one them. I agree with her it is so hard to find anyone to carry a meaningful conversation with. I don't know if it is that everyone is so self absorped or what.

[JackieInPA]

Several times in my life i have achieved what i call 'girlfriend' status with some female friends and coworkers. They talk with me about things that most woman would just never bring up around a man. Like clothes, men, relationships, monthly cycle topics, even had one say to me "i keep forgetting yer a guy". Only had one bad episode with it...one of them was dating my best friend (male) at the time and kinda asked me to spy on him for her...i perfectly acceptable thing for a girl to ask another girl, but i didnt feel right and declined...kinda broke the girl bubble there.

[Chiana]

I was in a similar situation in an office one time. I was the only guy in with 7 ladies. I guess I complimented too many of the "girls" on their nails, hair, fragrance or dress too many times. When you get those "just one of the girls" comments it sure makes you want to share more with them. But I didn't and I think that was best for me, at least. But the acceptance sure felt good.

[ReineD]

This is a very interesting post. There have been men I've met in my lifetime who gave off different vibes than other men. They didn't seem to have 'that edge' and there wasn't the same tension. I felt a kinship .. completely comfortable with them, as I do with females. I do feel this way around gay men, but the men I speak of here were not gay. One was a good friend's husband. Another was someone I worked with in my 20's. There were several more too.

I wonder now if they were CDers. If they were and had come out to me then, I would have thought that was cool, as long as their wives knew as well. Otherwise, I would have felt uncomfortable with the complicity.

[Kathi Lake]

Kathi

I can't agree with you more about having a conversation with women. Men seem to be stuck in the mud. And a relationship. I was talking to a GG friend this week about that same things and she said that she has two friends that she can carry a conversation with and I was one them. I agree with her it is so hard to find anyone to carry a meaningful conversation with. I don't know if it is that everyone is so self absorped or what.Yes, men tend to view relationships a bit differently (and I am one - well, mostly, anyway :)). I just finished watching My Fair Lady with my 9 year-old daughter. The song "Why can't a woman be more like a man" was especially meaningful. I'm certainly glad they're not.

I'm supposed to be in a men's group at church. They meet weekly to do "guy stuff" like basketball, building things, etc. - you know, male bonding - the stuff I'm not really good at. Honestly, I'd much rather join the ladies group. They go to a local restaurant and just talk and bond, or go on a mass shopping trip. That's much more my style. Sigh.

I've tried to have meaningful conversations with guys. It just doesn't work. They seem to get uncomfortable, and try to redirect the conversation towards "safe" areas - cars, work, you know, guy topics. Never feelings or anything like that. Odd, isn't it?


This is a very interesting post. There have been men I've met in my lifetime who gave off different vibes than other men. They didn't seem to have 'that edge' and there wasn't the same tension. I felt a kinship .. completely comfortable with them, as I do with femalesNow this is getting interesting! Reine, I'm wondering, do women instinctually "know" this about guys like me? Is it that obvious? Many, many women have told me that they feel totally comfortable with me, that somehow I'm like a girlfriend to them. They know that I'm safe. They know that I'm not out for "the only thing that's ever on a guy's mind." Is it that lack of tension (sexual or otherwise) or something else?

Kathi

[AlannahNorth]

Have you ever been included in "the club?"

Yes - a few years ago I was with a group of women I know at a conference. There were about 7 or 8 of us having a social evening in someone's room, when it came up that everyone was having a good 'girl's night out' and that I was welcome again. It was rather unique. No one in the crowd knows I CD, and I let it go at that. I'm comfortable around women, and they like being with me. I have very few friends that are men.

Alannah

[ReineD]

Now this is getting interesting! Reine, I'm wondering, do women instinctually "know" this about guys like me? Is it that obvious? Many, many women have told me that they feel totally comfortable with me, that somehow I'm like a girlfriend to them. They know that I'm safe. They know that I'm not out for "the only thing that's ever on a guy's mind." Is it that lack of tension (sexual or otherwise) or something else?

It is not outwardly obvious and women would not necessarily pick up on it right away. Some might although most, only after interacting with you for awhile. It is best described as a non-sexual intimacy. Most of my hairdressers have given off similar vibes, and I do not know if this is because they are with women all the time, or if it takes a particular bent to enjoy the profession. I've always felt as if I could confide in them. Most were happily married. But gals like you are genuinely interested in what interests us and it shines through. You get it!

Also, women feel 'special' when a man gets it. They sense his interest, they feel appreciated without feeling, as you say, that he has only sex on his mind. Although Casanova did have sex on his mind, I would imagine he was so successful with women because he loved and understood them in much the same way. :)

[Intertwined]

This happen just a couple of weeks ago

My job usually involves a split shift, On this day my hours were 6 am to 8:30 am then 10:30 to 12 noon then 1 pm to 5 pm.

On one of the splits, I was on the break room patio with several of my co-workers just visiting, when I felt strangely happy, maybe comfortable is a better word. This was because, I realized, for the past hour these 7 ladies had been treating me like one of the girls.

My co-workers know I crossdress, I wasn’t crossdressed though, I did have my purse (as always), I was wearing bracelets, earrings, and I had my socks and shoes off, which showed that my toenails had the same color polish as my finger nails.

We talked about work, fashion, make-up, tattoos, it wasn’t so much what we talked about, it was how we talked about it, I wish I could better explain it, it was so different than when with a bunch of guys.

[MissConstrued]

I've tried to have meaningful conversations with guys. It just doesn't work. They seem to get uncomfortable, and try to redirect the conversation towards "safe" areas - cars, work, you know, guy topics. Never feelings or anything like that. Odd, isn't it?


Just how would you define a "meaningful" conversation? Talking about hair styles, fashions, and menstrual cycles? I can't imagine why the guys would rather talk about fishing.... :brolleyes:

Now, just for the record, I do often find myself in situations where it's all "girl talk," and I don't mind. I listen, learn, chat, fit in with the conversation, and soon it's forgotten that I'm a guy in their midst. But I can't see any reason to consider this more meaningful conversation than the time I spend yakking about cars or guns with the guys!

Isn't it more a matter of where your personal interests lie? I know I can't get the least bit excited about sports or what's on TV, regardless of who's talking... in that case, I would rather talk about makeup. :D

[Anna the Dub]

The roommate who'm I came out to earlier this month looked at me and goes "oh my god, it all makes sense now! Maybe I should have taken you shopping"....

When I came out most everybody was shocked. But my GG best friend said that a lot of things had suddenly fallen into place and made complete sense now (herself and her daughter are my biggest champions). My sister in law said much the same thing. She also said that she had always thought that I was totally different from my 3 brothers, very gentle and sensitive and not really like any bloke she had ever met.

[Kathi Lake]

. . . But gals like you are genuinely interested in what interests us and it shines through. You get it!

Also, women feel 'special' when a man gets it. They sense his interest, they feel appreciated without feeling, as you say, that he has only sex on his mind.That's exactly the quote I've heard. "You get it!" I'm not sure if it's a mindset or if my brain is more attuned to their interests and the womanly ebb and flow of conversation, but that's the phrase I hear a lot. It used to be "you're like a brother (and some times "a sister") to me. When you're dating, it's not exactly the phrase you want to hear :) but now I really enjoy that. I must say I do love the feeling of inclusion while with a group of women.


Just how would you define a "meaningful" conversation? Talking about hair styles, fashions, and menstrual cycles? I can't imagine why the guys would rather talk about fishing.... :brolleyes:

Isn't it more a matter of where your personal interests lie? I know I can't get the least bit excited about sports or what's on TV, regardless of who's talking... in that case, I would rather talk about makeup. :DTo me, a meaningful conversation is more than the actual conversation from a car show this morning;

"Hey, nice car."
"Thanks."
"'72?"
"Yup."
"Nice. 350?"
"Yup."

I can't talk about sports, TV, hunting, fishing, or other manly pursuits. That may be due to my interests and experiences. What I am able to do is carry on almost any conversation with a woman. It's not just that I can hold my own on any topic they can bring up (and yes, menstrual woes does come up), but it is a different quality to the conversation - less action-oriented and more "conversational." With guys, the conversations tend to be more of a dual "report" - "Here's what I did." "Nice. Here's what I did." With women, I notice more of a rapport - "here's what we can do. Would you like that?" There seems to be more inclusion. More consideration for the needs of others. I like that.

Kathi

[MissConstrued]

"Hey, nice car."
"Thanks."
"'72?"
"Yup."
"Nice. 350?"
"Yup."



Aha! I see your problem. You need to find some smarter friends. You might also want to avoid folks who won't talk about politics or religion, the hallmark of a narrow mind.

Because, I hope you realize, I could just as easily point out the other side -- at least men use fewer words to say nothing. :devil:

[Sally2005]

I some ways we underestimate the power of male conversation. The female version is very ineffecient. It takes about a 1000 words to talk about something and many times you still do not get the true message. Male conversation has only a few words, but those words are accurate and the way the words are said conveys all the personal feelings. :heehee:

The female 'club' exists and its funny sometimes the women will stop and say...oh you don't want to hear about this...I just say it doesn't bother me. I notice, some women will talk openly to me most of the time. I am told I'm a good listener. I don't make too many chauvanistic comments so most women trust me.

[Kathi Lake]

. . . at least men use fewer words to say nothing. :devil:Yup!

:)

Kathi

[Carole Cross]

I used to work at a bowling centre and there were a few girls there who I got on really well with. WE used to talk a lot about girly things, shoes, fashion and other issues. I wasn't very knowledgable about female clothes at the time, but I probably knew more than most guys. I have always found it much easier to talk to girls, we seem to be on the same wavelength, not suprising since I am TS. I will soon be one of the girls. :D

[ReineD]

Aha! I see your problem. You need to find some smarter friends. You might also want to avoid folks who won't talk about politics or religion, the hallmark of a narrow mind.

Precisely! And let's not forget that both men AND women are capable of discussion beyond the stereotypical topics. :)

[Chiana]

My dating experiences seem similar to Kathi's, in some respects. "You are so easy to talk to." "I enjoy talking to you because you really understand." Or "I think of you as my best friend, not a boyfriend." Not what you would want to hear, necessarily. But I always felt good about being accepted into that inner circle, if you know what I mean.

My closest and dearest friend is a girl I asked out on a date over 30 years ago. She has been married a couple of times since then and every time before she gets married, she has told her prospective groom that I am her best friend and they need to learn to accept me because she has no intention of giving up our friendship.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

we seem to be on the same wavelength, not suprising since I am TS. I will soon be one of the girls. :D

<Channeling Molly Ringwald as Molly the budding feminist on the first season of the Facts of Life>: Women!

:-)

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[Kathi Lake]

Precisely! And let's not forget that both men AND women are capable of discussion beyond the stereotypical topics. :)Oh, I do have great conversations with both genders away from the "typical" areas. I just seem to gravitate towards the women. If I go to a party, it seems that I always end up in the kitchen talking with the wives. Odd, but there you go. I remember once that a seemingly jealous guy came in, saw me there and asked his wife if I was bothering them. She told him that I was just fine, we were just having "girl talk" and for him to go back to the guys. I was a little embarrassed, at the time.


My closest and dearest friend is a girl I asked out on a date over 30 years ago. She has been married a couple of times since then and every time before she gets married, she has told her prospective groom that I am her best friend and they need to learn to accept me because she has no intention of giving up our friendship.Chiana, what a wonderful friendship! To have stood the test of time as it has is quite a testament to your bond. I have a friend as well that has remained as close, although the dynamic is a bit different. He is a guy (see MC, I can have actual friendships and conversations with guys:)). I am closer to him than anyone in my family. I hope you cherish that friendship (and I hope she picks a winner in the husband department one of these days :))

Kathi

[crossdrezzer1]

in a few weeks I will be one of the girls,,no one knows I dress but I am my sisters maid of honor and am throwing her her batcherette party,,, alot of girls and silly games,,,wonder whats going to happen,,,sorry but she wants me in a tux,,boo hoo

[denise-x]

I had several instances....I use to work the evening shift in a major IRS office. Our team was very close knit and I had a very close relationship with several of the girls. I had more or less hinted about my dressing and attitudes. One night a male ffriend of ours came over to were I was chatting with these girls and was showing them pictures of me dressed. These pictures were taken by a professional photographer after I was made up by a professional cosmeticologist. My male friend saw them and didn't realize it was me. The only thing he said was "wow whose the good looking chick". The girls all had a big laugh over this.

With all the girls I've known it seems that they all sensed that I was more fem than guy, and, have accepted me as such, without me telling them or admitting to this.

[jessiejess112]

I'm actually pretty good at guy talk; I always have long conversations with my male friends about women, cars, politics, anything.

But when I do notice a change is in Family gatherings. In my Family usually the husbands will go outside and start talking and joking amongst themselves. And the wives will stay inside chatting: sometimes I find myself inside chatting with the women for too long. They always gossip on celebrities and women in the Family that didn't show up :D But I also like their points of view on issues, their tips to other each other, etc. their talk is just more interesting to me. But I usually catch myself after a while and go outside to talk with the guys, and pretend I'm interested in what they're saying :)

[Kathi Lake]

. . . ,sorry but she wants me in a tux,,boo hooBoo hoo indeed. It is her day, after all, and you in a dress would no doubt steal her limelight. Ah well you'll still have fun. Let us know how the bachelorette party goes!


These pictures were taken by a professional photographer after I was made up by a professional cosmetologist. My male friend saw them and didn't realize it was me. The only thing he said was "wow whose the good looking chick". The girls all had a big laugh over this. . . . and you're holding out on us why, exactly? When are we going to see these gorgeous pictures? :)

Kathi

[Laceytosee]

I have always been more comfortable in the company of women, I like girl talk. I would love to be considered one of the girls. I comment on the dress and wish I could be in it. I've gotten some sidways looks from the men standing near but so what! If sometime I am considered "one of us" I'll be very happy.

To be accepted as a girl with the company of girls......... I'd be their girlfriend forever.

Have fun,
Lacey

[erica12b]

that i too prefer (fit in to) the girl talk , at partys and events i can do the guy thing but i end up in the girl talk or just left out and heading home ,

[Teri Jean]

Hi Kathi, I have been out to my late wife's sisters for some time and the other day they commented about me being one of the girls, a sister, more than a brother-in-law. I about melted but the tears kept me for doing so. Then this last weekend one of them took me shopping, it was great.

Huggs Keli

[Ashlee]

in a few weeks I will be one of the girls,,no one knows I dress but I am my sisters maid of honor and am throwing her her batcherette party,,, alot of girls and silly games,,,wonder whats going to happen,,,sorry but she wants me in a tux,,boo hoo

Is going to the Bachelorette thing en femme as one of the girls a possibility? I can't recall where I heard this whether It was from my friend or one of his friends while I was visiting him in California. Anyway, (again memory fails) a discussion was taking place where I was within earshot and apparently a bachelorette party took place at (supposedly closed) Queen Mary in Sherman Oaks/Los Angeles vicinity where groomsmen and best man etc all dressed as women and went along with the female counterparts of the wedding. How cool would that be?

[Kathi Lake]

Is going to the Bachelorette thing en femme as one of the girls a possibility? I can't recall where I heard this whether It was from my friend or one of his friends while I was visiting him in California. Anyway, (again memory fails) a discussion was taking place where I was within earshot and apparently a bachelorette party took place at (supposedly closed) Queen Mary in Sherman Oaks/Los Angeles vicinity where groomsmen and best man etc all dressed as women and went along with the female counterparts of the wedding. How cool would that be?Stunningly, incredibly, massively cool! As long as the guys didn't feel that they were "sacrificing" their precious masculinity and had fun with it, I'm sure it would be a blast for all.

Kathi

[nightman]

No sarcasm meant with this question I really am curious as to how to excert the NEW me.
How do the husbands accept you at the Saturday morning get togethers the men have before they work on the church?
I'm sure some of them notice the popularity you have with their wifes!
When a group of women get together the "vibes" are entirely different then when a group of men meet. Assuming they know their wifes enjoy your company has there been any rye comments or uneasy questions? I'm only asking these questions because I have been a Christian, let's just say most of my life.
Only recently have I begun to risk discovery by friends and loved ones.
GOD BLESS YOU & YOURS,
NIGHTMAN

[SherriePall]

I have had girl-to-girl chats with a couple of SA's I used to see quite a bit. This was en drab for the most part. It was quite amazing how both of us felt -- just two girls talking. Nothing held back.

I think I mentioned this once before. When I left a job years ago, one of the women came over to me and said she was sorry to see me leave because I was not like the other guys there.
Had to bite my tongue so I wouldn't tell her why.

[Kathi Lake]

No sarcasm meant with this question I really am curious as to how to excert the NEW me.
How do the husbands accept you at the Saturday morning get togethers the men have before they work on the church?
I'm sure some of them notice the popularity you have with their wifes!
When a group of women get together the "vibes" are entirely different then when a group of men meet. Assuming they know their wifes enjoy your company has there been any rye comments or uneasy questions? I'm only asking these questions because I have been a Christian, let's just say most of my life.
Only recently have I begun to risk discovery by friends and loved ones.
GOD BLESS YOU & YOURS,
NIGHTMANWith the guys, I am pretty much "one of the guys." They do know I'm not that "manly" though. I weigh 135 pounds if I'm lucky. I don't hunt or fish. I'm not into guns or cars, etc. They know me as a deacon and a good worker. My attitude is pretty positive, so most people see me as an upbeat person that makes friends with everyone - male or female. I also think they know that I am not a threat to their wives. Just as women can seemingly sense my "girly" vibe and feel no threat, I'm sure the men can as well. As I said in another thread, I was asked once by a kind of a jealous husband if I was bothering the group of ladies. The wife told her husband, "Oh, don't worry. He's fine. We're just having girl talk. You wouldn't be interested. Run along, now!" We all kind of giggled as he left the room and went back to our chat.

Kathi

[nightman]

She isn't really jealous but she has asked me before. Why does so and so always ask you if you're going to be at events that are meant mainly for women? I won't lie to her about the closeness I have with women I just say. Sweetheart I'm not always the only man there am I? Besides we always arrive together and we always leave together don't we? If there was anything going on wouldn't their husbands ask me that question?
So I know what you mean about both the sexes feeling safe with me " and they are" I'm more scared of them then they are of me!
Even though some of the time I am wearing nylons or lingerie under my clothes.
In forty two years together it has probably been thirty or so since we have had any conflict about the issue. I won't openly wear anything around her and when we leave to go somewhere she doesn't frisk me to see if I am!
We have raised our seven kids together {lost one at 17} and now have 15 grandkids with 4 great grandkids.
One more question what denomination are you?
LATER,NIGHTMAN

[Kathi Lake]

She isn't really jealous but she has asked me before. Why does so and so always ask you if you're going to be at events that are meant mainly for women? I won't lie to her about the closeness I have with women I just say. Sweetheart I'm not always the only man there am I? Besides we always arrive together and we always leave together don't we? If there was anything going on wouldn't their husbands ask me that question?
So I know what you mean about both the sexes feeling safe with me " and they are" I'm more scared of them then they are of me!
Even though some of the time I am wearing nylons or lingerie under my clothes.
In forty two years together it has probably been thirty or so since we have had any conflict about the issue. I won't openly wear anything around her and when we leave to go somewhere she doesn't frisk me to see if I am!
We have raised our seven kids together {lost one at 17} and now have 15 grandkids with 4 great grandkids.
One more question what denomination are you?
LATER,NIGHTMANSouthern Baptist.

Kathi