I Need Your Help

[Patricia1]

Hi All – Your help can be in the form of a pat on the back, a kick in the ass, both or any thing in between.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading the last few days and weeks, both here & on other forums, and am thoroughly confused, bothered & bewildered. The subject matter deals with the crushing duality that we carry as male-to-female trans folk in so many areas.

Like the Almond Joy/Mounds commercial “sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don’t.” I don’t mean whacky-wise but identity-wise. I think I’m pretty straight, certainly statistically I am, never been with a guy. With all due respect to men everywhere I don’t find guys to be any too attractive. Then, how is it that, when I dress to be Patti, I want to be as passable, as feminine, and as attractive as possible? I’ll admit that while I’m dressed I imagine being with men. How can I reconcile this with my avowed straightness? Not too long ago TxKimberly confessed to “mixed feelings” because he enjoyed being treated like a woman, although (s)he’s completely hetero. Even those of us who proclaim that they’re straight get themselves as dolled up as they can with breast forms, makeovers, heels, shape enhancers & so on so that they can turn heads. Obviously, we want to be noticed, but why? Why do you post pictures and albums here and on Flickr, to name just two sites, so that CD/TS admirers can “paw” your pictures?

Look, if you’re putting on a bra, panties, stockings, shoes, make-up, wigs and the rest while asserting that you’re straight, you may be kidding yourself to a degree. It feels good to put on the image, we can’t help ourselves, it relieves tension, etc. I’ll agree with you and say you’re not gay, but you’re not straight either, at least as far as the “norm” is concerned. Your straight line is at least a little curved. Not that’s there’s anything wrong with that. And I am not judging anyone here. I’m not even looking for answers. I don’t think there are any. I just want some intelligent input.

Another duality thing – do I or don’t I? Tell the SO? Some of us believe honesty is the best policy – don’t lie, deceive, conceal, hide. You’re better off telling the truth and dealing with the consequences. Others among us, our dear friend Karren for example, rue the day they had to ‘fess up. Better to stay hidden than reveal the truth & spoil the marriage, ruin the image we have as her man. Wow, what a burden we have to carry. To load it off to someone else, especially someone we love for the sake of our integrity, seems somewhat cruel & selfish. On the other hand, confession is good for the soul. What gives?

How about those of us who have an “understanding” SO? Boy, talk about having your
cake and eating it too. Why then are there those in this seemingly lucky group who turn their femme selves away from their SOs, who won’t show them their femme side in full or just turn the girl off for no apparent reason.

We are a very conflicted group of people, to say the least.

Perhaps the only answers to any of these issues must come on the strictly personal level. We talk to one another in threads and posts and PMs and Visitor messages, etc. And that’s all good. But our advice and comments can be a double-edged sword. They can encourage some (I for one have taken heart a great many times since coming around here, I really value your input, support & friendship) and convey a consensus of opinions on a variety of issues. But we often preach to the choir & people simply get the validation they were looking for and expecting. Our “voices” are electronic echoes and must not substitute for personal interaction. We shouldn’t get a false sense of confidence from the words scrolling by on our monitors.

I’m not sure where any of this rant got me. I know that I won’t stop dressing, I can’t and don’t wont to stop. I love it too much. But it is so painful too. I don’t want to hurt my wife and family but I can’t be anyone but myself. Standing up in a room full of people and proclaiming our trans nature is probably beyond most of us, me included. But I have to try, perhaps until the day I die.

Thanks for listening.

[Jessica Who]

Hmm, you could be right about the possible curved straight line. I know that when I look at Jessica in the mirror, I can be slightly aroused. How weird is that? I can turn my own self on!

As far as telling the SO, it's been one of my best decisions. While it hasn't been a walk in the park, we are better for it. I am glad that I decided to share Jessica with my wife.

[Super Amanda]

To me it seems that the underlying problem for many is that they have to live in secret.

Take away the fact that you are in the closet, and how many issues dissolve?

I know coming out is not for everyone, but I really believe that the secrecy is a major part of the heartache.

[GaleWarning]

I believe that the way to a peaceful heart is to simply accept that you are who you are, and that there is nothing you can do to change the way you are.

Soul-searching only makes you miserable. Once you have read a lot of the literature, you will get a feel for where you lie on the CDing spectrum. Once that happens, just be!

Oh, just as long as you don't hurt anybody else.
:)

[Lorileah]

Patti,

First they are just clothes. How you feel when you put them on is a different matter. And you equate the clothes with being female and your mind goes to you HAVE to be attracted to men. We are trained in that from the beginning. All of us were told, consciously or subliminally, at one time or another that dresses were made to attract males. Don't sweat it, you can be straight and dress to be pretty. We all like to be pretty. No one on these boards dresses to be a troll. What would be the point?

Now to the crux of the matter. Gay, straight or bi. This will be an argument for CD's forever. My personal take on this is no one is 100% anything. Nature abhors 100% anything to paraphrase. All this was validated for me 30 years ago when I took a psychology class on human sexuality and later TA'd the same class for 4 semesters. Life is a bell curve. If you look at that bell curve the absolute areas on each end are extremely small. I know many "gay" guys who married and had sexual relations with their wives. Didn't make them straight but they probably are not 100% gay either (or else they would have been totally turned off). Right now there are 50 male CD's who are going to read this and say "no way, nu-uh, never going to happen" and it probably won't, but there is that little voice in there going..."gee when I am dressed and a guy is coming on to me, I somehow wish I could...but no way." 99.44 percent pure. You can't say you don't like chocolate if you have never tasted chocolate. You can say "I don't think I would like it." Does not mean you HAVE to try it though. You can walk by that candy store your whole life.

There is nothing more sexy and beautiful, in my opinion, than a woman's body. There is nothing like a dame as they say. It is all part and parcel in why many of us dress. We want that badly. We want to be noticed. Check the thread on how we were treated in High School. But there are men who are sexy in their own way. Guys who claim 100% straight still look at the buff athlete or the handsome leading man with awe or jealousy. Borders on homosexual feelings (again my opinion). Guys look in the shower (they won't admit it but how can they feel "inadequate" if they don't have some thing to compare?)

I admit, I post my best pictures because I want the attention. I don't care if it's male or female. I want to be noticed. I don't remember if I have pictures here of me in a park in Denver. By the end of that photo shoot I had 20 or more people following me and staring. I felt like a real model. They knew darn well I wasn't a girl, I was 6'3" in heels with shoulders like a linebacker (actually I was a corner but that is another story). I walked on cloud 9 for weeks after. When I first went online as Lori, I got all sorts of male attention. I played it. In a way it was a good thing because I learned very quickly that many men are pigs no matter what and knew how GG's have felt and been treated for their whole lives.

So I know where of you speak. I went through what you are going through. I don't advocate following my footsteps because we are all different, but as Gallagher once said, "look at the world through new eyes." Enjoy the ride. Don't take it too serious.

[paulaN]

Wow you sure put a hole lot into this thread. Here is what I know about myself and my life in general.
1. I am bisexual. I have known it for many many years. I never acted on it until a few years ago.
2. I lost my marriage because of my being trans gendered and bisexual. It had been going down hill for a long time. She could not handle cd'ing. She could not accept it and did not want to accept or understand it. It was hard to take. But we are better off with out each other.
3. This forum and the internet has helped me understand myself so much. I thought I was all alone for many many years. I am not. I am normal. he he he LOL.
4. I do not understand all of this trans gendered stuff. I have no idea why. I just know that I am what I am and I can accept it now. I put it like this when I talk about it. I seem to have an extra gene or a girl gene that most men do not have. I have a girl inside and that girl is a part of me weather I like it or not. So to quote someone on this forum I have to man up and be girly. Sometimes anyway.
5. Since my divorce and the fact that I am over 50. And the fact that I am sober and much more accepting of myself now. I seem to want to be girly more and more. Why that is I don't know. I think a lot of it is because my testosterone levels have dropped with age. I can not prove that but I do know that I want to dress up and go out all the time. I don't do it as much as I would like because I still want to do all my guy stuff, and time and money keep me slowed down too.
Well that is some of the things that I do know. Everything else must be on that straight curve that was talked about. LOL.

[MissConstrued]

Don't over-think it. You stare too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back.

[sandra-leigh]

My sexuality has not changed since I realized I was a cross-dresser a small number of years ago. But on the other hand, I don't believe I ever identified myself as "100% straight".

I was called a "fag" (including by random passer-bys) from at least the time I was in grade 4, up into my early 40's. I didn't even know what that meant at the young age, or what the life of homosexuals was like, and I wasn't sexually attracted to any actual person until I was in my early 20's (I knew the difference between pictures/stories and real people.) My all-male home-room class pretty much unanimously voted me to be the class Prom Queen (or something similar) -- and the teacher let them and laughed about it.

With a childhood like that, you either grow up neurotic and tormented, or you grow a shell of inner certainty, "I am what I am, and these people are just ignorant and I don't care what they have to say".

I did have a few good friends in high school; although I don't recall the wording now, I remember one of them sort of warning me that a couple of guys were socially out of favour and that it wouldn't be good for me to hang around with them or be seen as being friendly with them. Of course I asked why not; I was informed that they were known to be gay. At the time I simply replied something like "Oh", but internally what I was thinking was "Why should I care about that? Why should I shun them? What-ever they are doing with each other, they seem happy together, and they are both bright and creative guys who are amongst the very few people outside of my small circle of friends who have always treated me decently." And so was set the pattern for later life: of the few people that bothered to get to know me or talk decently to me, it wasn't uncommon for me to find out later that they were gay or lesbian. How could I be afraid of being gay or bi when the GLBT I interacted with were often some of the most compassionate people around? And they trusted me but were often more reserved with other people around who were "good people".

Am I gay? I doubt it. Am I bi? Maybe, maybe not; the possibility doesn't frighten me, What-ever I am was determined many years ago.

By this time, it is impossible to say whether those grade-school kids and even the drive-by insulters were just being randomly mean, or were reacting randomly to some accurate but ineffable perception that I was "different", or if they really did distinctly perceive me as homosexual through some "gaydar" instinct. Or perhaps all these years, even when I had no idea myself, before puberty even, I've been projecting "transgender" and that was being interpreted as "gay". The question is unanswerable. The GLBT... who knows why they trusted me when other good people were around. It might have been nothing more than they perceived I was different "somehow" and took a chance and I treated them as fully human. Or maybe they knew that I was one of them, long before I had any idea.


I don't remember the circumstances now, but earlier this year, I was talking to the general manager and a few of the staff at the GLBT bar/club/community centre where our CD social club holds its meetings, and they made it clear with a few simple sentences that I was considered a friend of the place, and they are pleased to have me visit any time, no matter how I am dressed. I was quite touched, to be accepted and trusted and appreciated by a group that has learned the hard way to be wary and to reserve judgment. If the lump I had in my throat that evening somehow "proves" that I am not "straight", then so be it.

[boardpuppy]

I know having to go into deep thinking mode is good sometimes but I'd like to get the other side of the story, both sides of the coin so to speak. In my case that would help answer some of the questions, a true light on the subject. Maybe it would help clarify some of my feeling/questions etc. Maybe if there is enough input I will be able to put enough different things together and the light will go on, upstairs. Thanks for the though provoking thread and all the replying posts.

Hugs,
Alice

[sissystephanie]

Patricia,

I am going to answer the second part, to tell or not to tell, first. As one of the older CD's on here, both in actual age and also in CD years, I believe I am well able to give some intelligent input. Over the almost 70 years that I have been a CD, I have met many other CD and had conversations about these very things with many of them.

The best advice I can give you is to tell your SO as soon as possible. To not tell her is to live a lie! Would you like her to do that to you? Most likely the answer to that question is a resounding "NO!" If that is the case, then why not tell her? You said you were "straight," at least that you were not interested in men. Let her know that right off the bat. I told my late wife that no matter what kind of feminine clothing I had on, underneath all that was my male body which was all hers!! BTW, she was supportive of my CD activities the for the almost 50 years we were married. Because she knew I was her man, and not someone else's "girl!"

Now to the other part of your "duality" problem. Although I dress, at least to some extent, almost every day, I still consider myself a "straight" man. Of course, without my late wife to do my makeup and fix my wig, there is no way I look like a female. Even with all feminine clothing! I look like what I am, a man in a skirt and pretty top with a nice bosom! Well, I do have natural 40 B's and don't mind showing them off!:heehee: The thing is, I know I don't look like a woman and I just don't care! I am wearing what I feel most comfortable in, and to me that is what counts. What other people think about what I wear is their problem, not mine. If they think that makes me a "queer," "fag," or whatever, then so be it. They just better not say it to my face, unless they want a broken nose or a split lip! I may be old, but I am still fairly dangerous at times!:tongueout

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Patti,


Even those of us who proclaim that they’re straight get themselves as dolled up as they can with breast forms, makeovers, heels, shape enhancers & so on so that they can turn heads. Obviously, we want to be noticed, but why?
Not me. I can honestly say I do not dress to get attention toward myself from men. Looking to "turns heads" is the last thing I want when I dress. In mainstream public places I prefer to try to disappear (blend?) into the background. When in a bar or club I also like to stay with my friends and not flirt.

I wear all of the things you mentioned to feel as feminine as I can for myself. I to try to look as convincing as possible because I believe I'll get less noticed as a CDer or I'll get noticed, but people will think that they "can see what I'm trying to be" and treat me a such. All this has nothing to do with my sexual orientation. In fact, I rarely think about having sex or making love just because I'm dressed. Those thoughts come from many different sources, my wife being the main one.


Look, if you’re putting on a bra, panties, stockings, shoes, make-up, wigs and the rest while asserting that you’re straight, you may be kidding yourself to a degree. It feels good to put on the image, we can’t help ourselves, it relieves tension, etc. I’ll agree with you and say you’re not gay, but you’re not straight either, at least as far as the “norm” is concerned.

Not straight either!? IMHO, since when has gender expression got anything to do with sexual orientation? Don't believe me? Go to a gay pride day and seek out the "leather clad bears" guys. These guys are some of the most masculine men (in the sense of how macho they look) I have ever met in my life, and they are gay. Not all lesbians are butch either, so you see to me, saying that because you are a genetic male and you choose to want to appear feminine and wear feminine things therefore you can't be "completely straight" is rather a bit of a "sweeping statement" and some might say a rather tired old stereotype that people always seem to jump to when they don't know any better. :sad:


Why do you post pictures and albums here and on Flickr, to name just two sites, so that CD/TS admirers can “paw” your pictures?
No, not at all. There was thread about this only the other week. I didn't respond in it but I post mine on Fickr not because I'm seeking out admirers, it's about sisterhood and sharing successes of finding that one in 100 pics that makes you look on the outside what you feel like on the inside. It's got nothing to do with anything else, especially seeking attention from men. Not for me anyway.


We are a very conflicted group of people, to say the least. Not all of us. I certianly don't feel conflicted about anything.

I'm not going to go through every point in your post and give my viewpoint, and I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions, but the idea that just because a person is deviating away from the stereotypical gender expectations (particularly in the way a person dresses) and so therefore must be "a little bit gay" or to use your words "Your straight line is at least a little curved." really bugs me. Why can't I be as hetro as the next guy but still like to wear dress? (notice I didn't say "manly") :)

[Misty G]

I like being enfemme as often as possible however I also like being a guy sometimes. Some time ago I wrote an article called having the best of two worlds

Best Of Two Worlds !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the old saying goes having your cake and eating it too. I feel like I have the best of two different worlds. I have a wonderful family which I love very much. A wife that I think I am growing to love more and more every day. A son who has grown up and has a great job and a very nice wife. And two of the most precious daughters anyone would be proud of. One of which is a senior in High school and the other a sophomore. Both of which are on the honor roles in school. My wife is always doing something around the house plus she has a nice job which allows her the freedom of being of f anytime she needs to be. I also have a very good job. I really like it and make a fair living. The best thing about my job is that I get to spend all of the time I need working on and with the computers. When it comes down to it I think I had rather be working with a computer than to eat. I spend hours and hours with them. So much in fact that people think I love them more than anything else. But I truly don't think this is true. The people that think this just simply don't know me very well. Because I am also a CrossDresser. Yes I said a CrossDresser. A full pledged Transvestite. For those of you who may not know what a Transvestite really is let me inform you. Contrary to what most people think most TV's are not gay but instead are very hetrosexual meaning that they do not have sexual contact with males. I know that this is the case for me as I have never nor do l have the desire to make it with a male. But on the contrary I am very envious of women. They Have all of the pretty, silky and smooth clothes too wear. As I know I love to wear all of those silky things myself, with a pretty short skirt and a nice blouse. There is nothing that I like better than to take a nice shower shave my legs. Slip on a pair of tight silky panties and a pair of Nylons or pantyhose. Get a really close shave and put on some makeup. Including eye shadow, mascara, and liner. Put on some really sexy looking lipstick. Then a nice pair of earrings maybe a necklace and my wig. After I get my hair fixed. To slip on the short skirt and blouse or maybe even a business suite or even a pair of sexy cut-offs. Anything sexy that shows plenty of leg. I have thought a lot about how it would be to live out the rest of my life as a female. But here recently I have begun to think. Why, I have the best of both worlds here and now. So why would I want to give up one just to live in another? So, at least for now I am content to live the way that I am. But I also reserve the right to change my mind at any time. The way that I have it now is about as perfect as you could get. I work away from home and since my wife doesn't really approve of my dressing. This gives me plenty of time to dress when ever I wish. Which is almost every night. I always wear pantyhose and panties to work. As far as that goes I always wear them. They are so comfortable and besides that I enjoy it. I just love to be able to come in from work take a shower put on a pair of panties, nylons or pantyhose, a bra and oh yes my breast forms and then slip into a really sexy nightie or maybe even put on a dress with makeup. Sometimes I will even venture out to the gro. store or maybe to Wal-marts. If I am feeling really adventurous I might even go to the mall.
Hugs,
MistyG

[Lorileah]

Hi Patti,


Not me. I can honestly say I do not dress to get attention toward myself from men. Looking to "turns heads" is the last thing I want when I dress. In mainstream public places I prefer to try to disappear (blend?) into the background. When in a bar or club I also like to stay with my friends and not flirt.



That whole blending thing again. I say it is easy to blend in, wear what everybody wears that is androgynous and bland. When you wear a dress or skirt you get noticed whether you like it or not just because it isn't the common thing anymore. You may want to hide but it isn't happening. You are noticed and most people just let it slide because you are not on their radar.

I "hear" what you are saying, I just don't think it is as true as you think, at least for most here. And like I said before if I am going to take the time to get "Pretty" someone better notice otherwise why bother?

[Rachel Morley]

I "hear" what you are saying, I just don't think it is as true as you think, at least for most here. And like I said before if I am going to take the time to get "Pretty" someone better notice otherwise why bother?
That's cool, we're all different. All my life, I've always thought "I'm different" to my peers ... I guess that goes for CDers too then if as you say it's not true for most here. For someone to "notice" that I've made a good job of my make up or my dress looks nice on me is one thing but to "notice" me in the sense that Patti mentioned, i.e admirers or attracting attention from men is another thing altogether IMO. For me, there's "noticing" and there's "noticing".

[Shari]

Somehow we have to come up with a stronger word than conflicted.

Look at the bottom of my page. Maybe we're all mixed up, jumbled up, shook up girls.

I know I am.

[carhill2mn]

I love to dress as a woman and act as a lady. I have no sexual attraction to men whether I am en femme or not. I sometimes receive compliments from GWs (which I really appreciate). I do not remember receiving any compliments from men but, if I did, I would graciously accept them and smile. It would have no bearing on my sexual tendencies or preferences.

[Carly D.]

Good slap in the face.. thanks I needed that.. actually let me just say that it is true that I like to wear womens clothing.. passing on the other hand is way out there.. do I want attention?? I avoid attention like the plague when dressed up, as well as male mode too... so why would someone want to dress then if not to pass?? well for me I've always liked the way certain clothing has felt on me. be it pantyhose or tights or shoes.. a bra and also the dress or skirts.. I do try to "pass" such as it is but more than anything else I try to look closer to fem to avoid the attention that some of us get.. the unwanted kind of attention.. actually I would like to try to just go somewhere and be me, no wig but a skirt and heels and hose.. dress from the waist down.. and a bra but that's about all...

as far as pictures on the internet are concerned here at crossdressers.com I have very few pictures and my myspace site I have a lot but are for friends only.. do I trust them to be left alone?? no I don't but if it really bothered me I wouldn't put them there in the first place.. I am guilty of looking through and downloading a good number of pictures of other cross dressers but I do it to see and admire how others look.. the guys (girls) her that post their pictures go to great lengths to look really female and I envy the hell out of most all of them..

[Jonianne]

.......if I am going to take the time to get "Pretty" someone better notice otherwise why bother?

We all have our own path to follow. For me, I dress to fill the need of identifying with females, not to be noticed how pretty I am (fat chance anyway). Like Rachel Morley, I far prefer to pass under the radar of most people and not draw attention to myself while I am spending time enjoying myself in a "female" mode. I don't really "pass", but most people tend to "give me a pass" because, I imagine, I am not trying to draw that attention.

Lorileah, don't get me wrong, if you get positive attention and want it because of the good effort you put out, then that is great too! I might would get to the point of feeling that way also, if I ever received positive compliments. Until then, I'll just enjoy going out when I can, avoiding the limelight.