Uncomfortable

[Magickman]

It was at a singles dance party. And, no, I was not uncomfortable. I was doing just fine, thank you.

The woman was about my age, and from out of town.

And me? I was wearing a denim micro mini skirt, and knee high, brown leather stiletto boots, with 4" heels. Suntan color tights.

"You make some people uncomfortable," she said. When I asked her to elaborate, she gestured at my outfit.

She wasn't quite ready, herself, to dance with the man in high heels and a mini skirt. But it didn't really take much convincing to get her out on the dance floor.

"Uncomfortable?" What, just my being there, dressed up, put some folks out of sorts?

It never occured to me that I would make people uncomfortable.

What do you think? Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?

[Wendy me]

picture??????????????..........

[kaitlin]

Hey Girl, Good for you !!! Even knowing some narrow minded people were uncomfortable with your presence, you still stood your ground and got someone to dance with you! YOU GO GIRL !!!

[TGMarla]

What do you think? Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?
Ummmm......yes. It does. :facepalm:

[PretzelGirl]

Ummmm......yes. It does. :facepalm:

:iagree: It would be nice if we had broad acceptance, but we will make people uncomfortable at times (depends on the place, situation, and how we dress).

[Veronica75]

Sad but true. A reminder that the lack of acceptance really comes down to other people's own insecurities.

[Phyliss]

Skirt, Ok , ... mico mini, hmmmm maybe a bit much. Either way, you didn't back down, good for you.

[Angie G]

I for one don't see why it should. It;s not them that's dressed. Maybe they think CD"ing will rub off.:hugs:
Angie

[Jenny Brown]

It never occured to me that I would make people uncomfortable.
What do you think? Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?
You're kidding, Right? :eek:

[Magickman]

I had several dances with the woman who I mentioned, and also with her girlfriend.

Then, after they departed, I danced with a cute little barmaid, who had just gotten off duty. She was half my age, and hot.

By measurement, my mini was 12" long. Below that, all legs, boots, and heels.
Above the waist, a sleeveless denim jacket over a black tee. Long nails, with a sparkly, cranberry red, acrylic manicure, and two pairs of gold hoop earrings.

My appearance was that of a man, albeit all dressed up. It is a look designed to create confusion.

Improbable though it may seem, when I dress up, women approach me, and initiate contact.

I was just having fun, basking in the limelight.

[DianneRoberts]

I think being accepted depends on geographic location.
Environment that you are in.
Type / style of CD.

"In your face" may be harder for others than "trying to pass".

:2c:

[Joni Marie Cruz]

When people get confused they get uncomfortable. You pretty much answered your own question, didn't you?

Hugs...Joni Mari





My appearance was that of a man, albeit all dressed up. It is a look designed to create confusion.

I was just having fun, basking in the limelight.

[RobertaM]

So you were trying to Gender Bend , as opposed to fully pass. Not being critical here, just trying to understand.

[Rachel Morley]

Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?

Unfortunately, for some, yes. The whole world is all about being, and conforming to, either one gender or the other. What's the first question asked when a new baby is born? ... that's right, " is it a boy or a girl?"

From that moment on there are behaviour expectations placed on the mother and the child. People don't like it when other people "break the rules" and do something that is not what is expected of their given gender. They don't know how to react to it. It's sad.:sad: The net result is when they see someone who they can identify as biologically male doing something that is traditionally associated with being female (wearing a short skirt, stockings and stiletto boots) they get all uncomfortable about it. Not everyone is like this of course, but a lot of people are like it because they're not used to seeing or dealing with it.

[joann07]

It was at a singles dance party. And, no, I was not uncomfortable. I was doing just fine, thank you.

The woman was about my age, and from out of town.

And me? I was wearing a denim micro mini skirt, and knee high, brown leather stiletto boots, with 4" heels. Suntan color tights.

"You make some people uncomfortable," she said. When I asked her to elaborate, she gestured at my outfit.

She wasn't quite ready, herself, to dance with the man in high heels and a mini skirt. But it didn't really take much convincing to get her out on the dance floor.

"Uncomfortable?" What, just my being there, dressed up, put some folks out of sorts?

It never occured to me that I would make people uncomfortable.

What do you think? Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?


It would depend on how you presented yourself and if you blended in with the crowd. Judging in how you described what you were wearing, it sounds like you were a little sexually, or ****ty, overdressed whereas everyone else was dressed nicely to impress.
If you're ok with that then that's fine, but there's one you have to remember. Not only are you representing yourself, but you are representing all your crossdressing and transgendered sisters.
Most of general public think of crossdressers as freaks, weirdos, perverts, predators, rapists, etc, etc, etc., because of what they see in the news, movies, TV, Jerry Springer.......you name it.
If we want to be accepted in society, we have to carry and present ourselves appropriately wherever we are.
The more we can show ordinary everday people that we aren't the negative stereotypes they're typically accustomed to seeing then they'll understand who we really are and not be uncomfortable around us.

Hugs!

[Jenny Brown]

My appearance was that of a man, albeit all dressed up. It is a look designed to create confusion.

And your point is? :doh:

[Karren H]

For sure!! John Q Public usnt ready to hange around with guys in dresses..

[MissConstrued]

MM--

It's not your responsibility if others are uncomfortable, of course. They'll live.

I do, however, find it very interesting that on a forum full of men who wear women's clothes, that you, as a man who wears women's clothes, are seen as an oddity. :straightface: Given the amount of female attention you get, there may be some jealousy involved, no?

[Carly D.]

I think so.. pushing the limits of acceptance.. I would love to do this though, and have even thought of what would it be like to just wear tights, heels and either a skirt or some shorts that I have.. I did in fact wear just this out one night to get the mail at the post office but it was really late at night and nobody was around so far as I know...

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Ummmm......yes. It does.

I think it depends, in part, on how the man wears the skirt or heels. I doubt that you or I would get the same reaction Magickman did out in public. For one, you and I would dress differently, and secondly, we'd wear our clothes like women do. We'd be doing our best to try to look like women.


MM--

It's not your responsibility if others are uncomfortable, of course. They'll live.

I agree.



I do, however, find it very interesting that on a forum full of men who wear women's clothes, that you, as a man who wears women's clothes, are seen as an oddity. :straightface:

Course he's an oddity here, this forum is full of transgendered crossdressers. And Magickman, IMHO, is not transgendered. He's like late Neal Cargile or that skirtman Dale Miller.



Given the amount of female attention you get, there may be some jealousy involved, no?

I don't think it's jealousy at all, I just think that actual transgendered people might not "get" people like Magickman.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[TSchapes]

My appearance was that of a man, albeit all dressed up. It is a look designed to create confusion.

If you are out to create confusion then the human response is going to be uncomfortable. I see no conflict here, you got the response you were looking for. How would you have felt if your design did not create confusion and un-comfortableness, then you would have felt let down, no?

If you are looking for my dis-approval, you will not find it. The whole idea is self-expression. And if that is how you felt that night, then enjoy!

Love, Tracy

[Nicki B]

"You make some people uncomfortable," she said. When I asked her to elaborate, she gestured at my outfit..
...

What do you think? Does the mere presence of a man in a skirt and heels, disturb the general public?

Surely, she was really talking about herself. Did she feel less uncomfortable after she'd spoken to you and danced? :)

[MJ]

picture??????????????..........

it would help if i knew what you look like ?

[MissConstrued]

Course he's an oddity here, this forum is full of transgendered crossdressers. And Magickman, IMHO, is not transgendered. He's like late Neal Cargile or that skirtman Dale Miller.




Now this is rich. Are we now to create some new pigeonholes; different levels of cross-dressing? Divide the minority into smaller minorities? Or perhaps elevate a cadre of "elite" cross-dressers?

There is a significant percentage of the membership here for whom cross-dressing extrends no further than wearing women's underwear. They don't own wigs, heels, or wear makeup. Do they not count?

This is the kind of thing that happens in human nature. People of like minds get together, and find a way to look down on a smaller group. Don't we all deplore this behavior in the general public when WE find ourselves the minority? And yet, here we are... same thing, smaller scale. This is sad.

And where might we draw the line between who is "transgendered," and who is not? The linebacker in the dress and full female accoutrement but is so obviously male a blind man can read him? The somewhat androgynous young man who gets mistaken for a woman whilst wearing male clothes, not even trying to pass as female?

Last I checked, we're talking about people defined as "wearing clothing generally belonging to the opposite sex." That's pretty straightforward, and I've yet to see a dictionary that specifies one only qualifies as a cross-dresser if in full drag.

Personally, my outward expression floats from fully male to fully female, and anywhere in between -- including in the style of Magickman. Where do I cross your invisible line?

Furthermore, just what is "transgendered," anyway? By some definitions I've read, that shoe fits. By others, I'm not. Since there is no list of physical characteristics to describe it, it remains entirely a subjective personal decision, doesn't it?

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Myself I think it's cool that Magickman dresses as he pleases, everybody ought to be able to, but I think the original question was a bit disingenuous. As he states he deliberately dresses to create confusion, to ask in what can only be mock surprise, why this would cause discomfort for some, indicates a sort of intentional social tone deafness. As to jealousy, with possibly one exception, no particular mention is made as to quality or quantity, no reason for jealousy I can see.

Hugs...Joni Mari




I had several dances with the woman who I mentioned, and also with her girlfriend.

Then, after they departed, I danced with a cute little barmaid, who had just gotten off duty. She was half my age, and hot.

By measurement, my mini was 12" long. Below that, all legs, boots, and heels.
Above the waist, a sleeveless denim jacket over a black tee. Long nails, with a sparkly, cranberry red, acrylic manicure, and two pairs of gold hoop earrings.

My appearance was that of a man, albeit all dressed up. It is a look designed to create confusion.

Improbable though it may seem, when I dress up, women approach me, and initiate contact.

I was just having fun, basking in the limelight.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Are we now to create some new pigeonholes; different levels of cross-dressing? Divide the minority into smaller minorities?

We don't have to creat pigeonholes or different kinds of CD's or divide a minority, because it's happened already. There simply are different kinds of crossdressers with different motivations and whatnot. And yes, there are people who crossdress who aren't transgendered. You can see them show up every know and then at support groups, but they don't stay long because the support groups are filled with crossdressers who ARE transgendered, as are the websites and back on the old days in USENET too.



There is a significant percentage of the membership here for whom cross-dressing extrends no further than wearing women's underwear. They don't own wigs, heels, or wear makeup. Do they not count?

Yes, as crossdressers in general. But as I said, there's different kinds of crossdressers, just like there's different Linux distributions. Ubuntu and the RHEL/CentOS based YDL I use are both Linux, but not exactly the same, different package managment schemes for example.


People of like minds get together, and find a way to look down on a smaller group. Don't we all deplore this behavior in the general public when WE find ourselves the minority?

But we aren't 100% exactly of like minds. Theres plenty of similarities, but there's differences too. Crossdressers aren't exactly a monolithic group of clones. I'm not trying to find a way to look down on anyone.



And where might we draw the line between who is "transgendered," and who is not?

Self-identification. In other words, the "why" and "intent" of it.



Last I checked, we're talking about people defined as "wearing clothing generally belonging to the opposite sex." That's pretty straightforward, and I've yet to see a dictionary that specifies one only qualifies as a cross-dresser if in full drag.

I didn't say anyone was only a crossdresser if one did full drag. Apparently you misunderstood my use of transgendered as an adjective. There are crossdressers who are transgendered and there are those who aren't. They're both crossdressers but different kinds of crossdressers.



Personally, my outward expression floats from fully male to fully female, and anywhere in between -- including in the style of Magickman. Where do I cross your invisible line?

No matter what, you're a crossdresser. As to what kind of crossdresser, that's a different kettle of fish. Are you transgendered?


Since there is no list of physical characteristics to describe it, it remains entirely a subjective personal decision, doesn't it?

Pretty much, but there are some general archetypes out there.

Let me add a quick and dirty diagram that might or might not help.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[TSchapes]

I thought Transgender was an umbrella term. Somehow I feel wet :sad:

89928

[TSchapes]

Yes, transgendered is an umbrella term... an umbrella term for people who are transgendered!

Just putting on a skirt doesn't make you transgendered, or Tony Curtis, Robin Williams and Dustin Hoffman would be TG. Which I guess they aren't. And so by the same criterion, every woman in jeans would be TG.

There are many other reasons for crossdressing than being transgendered, and Magickman keeps reminding us of that. Thanks, MM.

I'm sorry, I thought the graph was indicating one person per circle, if multiple people per circle, then yes you are right. I just saw the graph and thought, I don't call myself 1/2 transgendered, that doesn't make any sense. But yes, there are people that cross-dress that are not transgendered.

Love, Tracy

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Tracy-

The Venn diagram that Veronica drew usually includes more than one person or example in each circle though I guess it's possible to have a set consisting of only one example. So, for instance, with TS being fully included in the TG circle it indicates that all TS people are TG and with only part of the CD circle included it indicates that some CDs are TG though not necessarily all of them. If there were a category for Straight People Who Never Cross Dress (SPWNCD) it would a circle all by itself outside all the other circles, at least in this example. I tried living in that circle but didn't like it all that much so I moved me and my wardrobe to the CD circle where things are nicer and people dress prettier.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[JulieC]

Back to the OP;

So what if it makes someone uncomfortable? There's no law against making someone uncomfortable.

I think I might have offered to get her a blindfold. "Would that help?"