Not 100% convinced - Please advised

[Koka]

Deleted

[Anna the Dub]

If you were single and he was single, I would say go for it, you might enjoy it and find fulfillment. However, he is a married man as are you. You feel it would not be cheating, well, wake up call, it is. Doesn't matter if you sleep with a man, woman or a strategically shaved monkey, it is still cheating. Would you do that to your wife? Your loyal supportive wife? Saying your mind and body gets taken over by this erotic woman is just a cop out. People are tempted to stray all the time. Most don't. If you are going to stray, at least be honest with your wife and give her a chance to walk away before she is hurt too much. I can assure you that she would most definitely look upon it as cheating, however much you try and justify it to yourself.

[Lisa Golightly]

Keep it a fantasy.

[Miranda-E]

Hi Girls!
Is your urge like a ghost - spirit that takes over you? Have you dated a man? What are your recommendations if I decide to do it? Please advise sincerely as I really need a good advise on what to do.


Nothing takes me over. My decisions are mine with no excuses.
Is your wife open to you dating? If not you really need to decide which person makes you happier.A man might be what you want, might not. As far as a married man goes do you want to be his secret 2nd woman? I wouldn't.

[Christina Horton]

I was with you up to the point you said your married. What the hell are you thinking . You want to cheat on your wife !!!!

If your were single I would say be safe and if you want to try this go for it.
But you not single you have a wife you dumb ass. If you do this I will hate you . Of course you could care less but , You wanted us to (Please advise sincerely as I really need a good advise on what to do.)

I will always be honest to people and that's my opinion. If the Mods let this go through I hope you can understand something.

My dad cheated on my mom and that hurt all of us. Long story short , It broke my mom's heart and really hurt us kids. It's all good now but that was 17 years ago.

So my advice is to not do it. I am not gay but also wondered what it would be like to be fully treated as a women like that but I won
t do it. I might let a man dance with me in a club but that's it.

He's maybe married and it's his chose to cheat and the same with you hun.

Do what you want just remember that it's not all about you when you have a wife you love. If your goal is to ruin her life is not something a loving husband would do.

But thats my two :2c:

[LisaM]

I agree with what everyone has said so far. There is nothing to be gained by this type of relationship. It is a fantasy and you have lots that you could lose.

[Anna the Dub]

I just read on another thread that you have children too? And you are seriously thinking of throwing away all the good fortune you have for a selfish fantasy? Your loving, supportive wife deserves better.

[MsJanessa]

Darling often times the fantasy is far far better than the reality. I know its hard (pun intended) to keep these urges under control but if you do give into them your life will suddenly become more complicated than you can possibly imagine. If you want to have unbelievable stress in your life, then have the extra marital affair---just be prepared for the drama.

[MissConstrued]

Take a cold shower, and smack yourself in the face repeatedly.

Seriously.

Know where people who can't control their urges end up? Prison. Thus, I suspect your post is more vicarious titillation than moral dilemma.

[Dana Lane]

Why are people being so hard on her? She is being honest and has stated how strong her feeling is becoming. I think it is wrong to smack judgment down on her. Her life isn't your life.

Personally, I would never cheat on an SO.

[DonnaT]

You are married, so my advice is to stay away from seeing anyone else, man or woman.

Did you know the Craigslist killer targeted transwomen as well as ciswomen? And I bet he sounded sincere too!

So, even if you weren't married, I would suggest being very careful, especially if the person is supposedly married. I mean, how trustworthy can he be if he wants to cheat on his wife?

Never meet anyone at a motel.

[Anna the Dub]

She asked for our opinions. In my opinion, cheating on your wife and kids and thinking it is ok to do so because it wouldn't be with another woman and you would be dressed as a woman yourself, is despicable.

[Tanya C]

Please don't make this a crossdressing issue. It's an infidelity issue. It sounds as though you are using crossdressing as an excuse to cheat when you said that it wasn't really cheating because you're in girl mode. Take my word for it, it's cheating, and I'll bet you're wife would agree.
I don't know about you but the marriage vows that I took mentioned something about forsaking all others.

Tanya

[charlie]

Hello Koka!
Hey, they are being nice to you so far! I was hanged, chastised, called a dirty cheater and worse....and deserved the bad press to boot! I wrote about a month ago when I , having the same feelings that you are, went out on a date with a man. I was treated exceptionally, bought dinner and drinks, had doors opened for me, danced, had after dinner drinks, got felt up and kissed goodnight. Although the date was fabulous (a night to remember) I felt that I had cheated on my wife. I was less a person then I wanted to be. Remember we both (you and I) got married and took a vow to be a good mate, a trusting friend and lover. Going out and kissing others just is not part of that. If you are like me the fog will lift and you will not be happy with the realization of what you let happen.

[Nicki B]

I don't want to be unfaithful to her, however, i think that I am not being unfaithful as I am not being with another girl or man in male mode. As I said, my mind and body gets taken over by this erotic woman inside me and does not remember if he/she is married. I am confused. It is hard. Please help.!!

Thinking about it, fantasising, isn't being unfaithful in my book. Where you cross the line is if you do ANYTHING to try and make it real.. :sad:


Once you do, you won't ever be able to see yourself in the same way again. That's a lot to throw away, for a brief lust..

[sterling12]

Well, we have firmly established the fact that you would both be cheating. Your aware of it, he's aware of it. Now, the choice is up to you...and, we can't make you do, or not do it.

NOW, let's talk about some practical reality's: When you go to a motel room with a man, HE will be in control of The Situation, it can and probably will go a lot further than where you are ready to go...and don't depend on him stopping if you get afraid. I will assume you haven't done this before....it's going to hurt! Do you really want to go back to your spouse with Herpes? Or, any number of other social diseases. Do you envision this thing going any further? Don't bet on it, he's a "cheater" who tries to pick up T-Gurls on The Internet, it won't go any further!

Aside from The Cheating Issue, you will end up like most regular GG's who have "flings" in Motel Rooms with married men. You will end up feeling used, cheap, and worthless.

If your unhappy with your marriage, then do something about it. If you want to "play this game," do so as a single. We have been rough on you, virtually nobody has said, "You go Gurl!" Doesn't that kind of tell you something?

Peace and Love, Joanie

[LisaM]

Koka,

I am glad that you reconsidered.

And understand that no one hates you---we all struggle with different issues---we were just giving advice. Sometimes this 'fog' we live in causes us to forget what is most important in our lives.

[TSchapes]

I would honestly like to thank you all for your responses. You have saved me and my marriage. I knew deep inside that it was wrong and that
It was going to be something that I was never going to be able to forget. It was going to cause me a tremendous amount of guilt and I was never going to be the same. I accept myself the way I am and I will continue loving and respecting my wife and kids. This is just a fantasy and now I realize it was mixed in the urge of feeling like a woman. Thank you, thank you, thank you SO MUCH. And please forgive me for causing all those feelings about my post. Again, you have saved me and that is what it matters. I am crossdresser and I love being one, but as you have said,the rest is a fantasy and it should remain as such.
Tomorrow Friday I will enjoy dressing and being me. I don't need somebody else to fullfill any desire.I am also going to meditate about while I am dressed and begin learning how to accept the moment as it is and not to let me move or journey to a different realm that does not exist.

Thank you again!! And please don't hate me.

Koka

Sorry, I'm always late to these things.

I'm glad you saw your way through. I was going to advise you against this as you do have vows that you took when you were married, and you also have to think of the impact to your children.

On the other hand, there are SO's that are married to CD's that allow them to date men. So, if your SO's were of that opinion, then that is between you and your SO.

I would also warn any of the girls on this board, not to meet someone in private first. The idea of going to a motel to first meet someone sent off all kinds of alarms with me. Always, always meet someone in a public place first!

Again, I'm so happy that you were able to see clearly. :love:

Love, Tracy

[Anna the Dub]

Well, Koka, I am glad that you reconsidered too. It would've been a very bad move on your part, and your supportive wife doesn't deserve to have her husband cheat on her. Keep it as a fantasy.

[Christina Horton]

I would honestly like to thank you all for your responses. You have saved me and my marriage. I knew deep inside that it was wrong and that
It was going to be something that I was never going to be able to forget. It was going to cause me a tremendous amount of guilt and I was never going to be the same. I accept myself the way I am and I will continue loving and respecting my wife and kids. This is just a fantasy and now I realize it was mixed in the urge of feeling like a woman. Thank you, thank you, thank you SO MUCH. And please forgive me for causing all those feelings about my post. Again, you have saved me and that is what it matters. I am crossdresser and I love being one, but as you have said,the rest is a fantasy and it should remain as such.
Tomorrow Friday I will enjoy dressing and being me. I don't need somebody else to fullfill any desire.I am also going to meditate about while I am dressed and begin learning how to accept the moment as it is and not to let me move or journey to a different realm that does not exist.

Thank you again!! And please don't hate me.

Koka


Ok If you really feel that way and have changed your mind then good for you , then I am proud of your seeing the right thing to do.

But reading you second post I keep thinking that you might have just said that you changed your mind just to have the girls here stay of your back.
you know so they won't (yell) in puter talk at you.

I don't know it just felt that way to me. If I am way off base I am sorry. If not well you know how I feel.

anyway I will take you at your word that you are doing the right thing for your wife and kids and for you.

Never just head long into something like that with out really thinking it through. We all make mistakes all the time , I mean that's how we learn right.

Good luck and hay, if like it was said here if you want to meet someone from the Internet, Any where on the net do it like at a mall or restaurant or some place public. I have meet 4 people form the net all is public and they all went well. Good luck and have fun (save fun) out there.:hugs:

[Kate Lynn]

For the life of me I could never understand why a man who enjoys crossdressing,and is married,would want to go on a date with another man,there is something definetly wrong with that.

I've been married to my present wife for 7 years now,and have never had the desire to be with another woman,and the thought of being with a man has never entered my mind.

Personally I don't care what people do as long as it does no harm to anyone,just think of the harm you would cause your wife,children, and yourself if you did something like that.

[Jeanna]

Way too much risk and possibly danger to yourself. What if you got raped and beaten?
Be cool girl, take matters into your own hands!
Kisses Jeanna

I apologize for my comment. I too have had urges, crazy ones but I over came them, I truly believe that your are sincere and I too meditate while dressed.I wish you all the best.
Jeanna

[Phyliss]

I keep things real simple,.... If "IT" doesn't feel right then most likely "IT" isn't.

If you're having second thoughts about something, then stop and have about three or four more thoughts about it.

[ChanDelle]

I, too, agree with all the post urging you to reconsider ( and you did). I think we've got enough to deal with without throwing more guilt of betrayal on top of it. I think some of us give such "loud" opinions because we care about each other and want to make a difference. I'm glad you took the posts to heart without offence, as every one of them was truly heartfelt.

Take care and enjoy!

ChanDelle

[Miranda09]

Koka, everyone is giving you some good advice. Remember, it's only a fantasy until the clothes come off. Then it's a reality. I know what you mean by feeling extrememly feminine with all the desires to be treated as such, as I feel that everytime I dress up. BUT, DO NOT JEAPARDIZE your family situation. FAMILY IS FIRST!!!!! This could wind up being a very bad choice. Stay home!! Oh, and I have been on datacrosser.com and have had many compliments and those who would love to go out with me. It's a fun fantasy that strokes my ego......but that's all! Maybe a better idea would be to role play with your wife. Let her be the man and you be the woman going out on a date. Now that would be fun!!!!

[Koka]

Again, thank you for your suppport and advice. I am at home now and we just finished eating dinner. I was looking at my children and wife and I felt very happy to have them in my life. I would never hurt them. Thank you again for giving me that "virtual slap in the face". I really needed it. Thank god I decided to post my message here. I accept the way I am and I am happy being the man and woman I am. I will continue enjoying my crossdressing in a safe,healthy and happy way. Also I will continue being the responsible and loving father and husband I have been for the last 15 years.

Thank you all!

KOKA

[Miranda09]

:hugs: Good decision! :)

[harmony]

koka----you came close to turning your life into kaka!!

[ReineD]

Koka, it's OK to come here and discuss your feelings. This is why we have the forum. You were wise enough to seek advice before going through with your fantasy.

But if your urges were so strong, they will likely return. It might help you to get past them more quickly if you keep certain things in mind.

1. Every woman, GG (and apparently some TGs) dreams of having a man desire and love her passionately. It is very much a romantic desire that fuels the desire for sex. It is the stuff that fairy tales are made from .. the notion of a knight in shining armor. But, even for us GGs, the reality is often far removed from the fantasy.

2. There are lots of trans admirers out there. From what I've read here: by Richard/Alice Novic MD, author of "Alice in Genderland" (http://www.aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html), straight men do not have sex with TGs and trans admirers are wannabe CDs who are in denial over their own homosexuality. Admirers want to have sex with men, not women, which is counter to a TGs wish to be with a man who wants her as a woman. In this article, Alice Novic also has many other unflattering things to say about admirers.

3. I have read (and met) heterosexual CDs who have explored these fantasies only to discover that not only was it a gross disappointment, it was repulsive to them. There are bi and gay TGs who obviously would feel otherwise.

4. And finally, cheating on your wife is cheating, whether it is physically with a man, a woman, or a TG, or in cyberspace if the fantasy becomes so powerful as to prevent you from functioning normally with your wife or otherwise prevents you from being fully present in the relationship. Obsessions (with anyone or anything) take much time and energy away from the primary relationship, whether there is physical sex involved or not. If you continue to have these strong feelings, you might consider diffusing them with a therapist, preferably someone who is familiar with gender non-conformity.

Thank you for posting what you did. It took courage to be so honest and I admire this a great deal.
:hugs:

[Miranda-E]

2. There are lots of trans admirers out there. From what I've read here: by Richard/Alice Novic MD, author of "Alice in Genderland" (http://www.aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html), straight men do not have sex with TGs and trans admirers are wannabe CDs who are in denial over their own homosexuality. Admirers want to have sex with men, not women, which is counter to a TGs wish to be with a man who wants her as a woman. In this article, Alice Novic also has many other unflattering things to say about admirers.



Most of which is rampant self loathing homophobia

[ReineD]

What is rampant with homophobia, Miranda, the book or the admirers? I got the impression that Alice Novic is very comfortable with who she is.

[RobertaM]

this thread, is a great example of the value of this site.

[Nicki B]

straight men do not have sex with TGs and trans admirers are wannabe CDs who are in denial over their own homosexuality.

What about men who have long-term relationships and marriages with transsexuals - are they homosexual, too? (At least one who has married a TS is a member, here.) And where do you draw the line between TS and CD? Only if they've had reassignment surgery?

Forgive me, Reine, but in my experience, it's a lot more complex than that.

I know quite a few girls in long-term, steady relationships and their partners only see them as women. But, like everything else, it's never black and white - just as we aren't.

Alice may be comfortable with who she is (married to a woman, but having had affairs with admirers)- but it sounds as if she's preaching prejudice, to me.. :idontknow:

[carolinoakland]

Well, we have firmly established the fact that you would both be cheating. Your aware of it, he's aware of it. Now, the choice is up to you...and, we can't make you do, or not do it.

NOW, let's talk about some practical reality's: When you go to a motel room with a man, HE will be in control of The Situation, it can and probably will go a lot further than where you are ready to go...and don't depend on him stopping if you get afraid. I will assume you haven't done this before....it's going to hurt! Do you really want to go back to your spouse with Herpes? Or, any number of other social diseases. Do you envision this thing going any further? Don't bet on it, he's a "cheater" who tries to pick up T-Gurls on The Internet, it won't go any further!

Aside from The Cheating Issue, you will end up like most regular GG's who have "flings" in Motel Rooms with married men. You will end up feeling used, cheap, and worthless.

If your unhappy with your marriage, then do something about it. If you want to "play this game," do so as a single. We have been rough on you, virtually nobody has said, "You go Gurl!" Doesn't that kind of tell you something?

Peace and Love, Joanie

Ok, mine is a cautionary bit as well. Fantasy is fine, it's acting on it that's not. And my personal experience includes my step father getting a vasectomy when I was a kid so that he wouldn't get his girlfriends pregnant. And when he caught AIDS he decided that he didn't need to tell my mother about it because he felt that by the time she got sick they'd have a cure. What would you say to your children? Carol.

[Daenna Paz]

Take a cold shower, and smack yourself in the face repeatedly.

Seriously.

Know where people who can't control their urges end up? Prison. Thus, I suspect your post is more vicarious titillation than moral dilemma.

Well spoken..............

[Jenny Brown]

What about men who have long-term relationships and marriages with transsexuals - are they homosexual, too?
If the TS hasn't had SRS? That's a no brainer. Of course they're homosexual.

[Anna the Dub]

If the TS hasn't had SRS? That's a no brainer. Of course they're homosexual.

So there's me, a pre-op TS. I have breasts, have a very noticeable female body shape, but still have that 'thing' there for now. Are you saying that if I had a relationship with a man now, I would be gay, but if I have an operation to alter the shape of my genitals and then have the relationship, that would make me straight? My brain hasn't changed, that is still what I would consider female, my identity hasn't changed, again female. But the mere fact that I have some rearrangement done on a part of my body changes me from being gay to being straight? Is that what you are saying?

[Shelly Preston]

If the TS hasn't had SRS? That's a no brainer. Of course they're homosexual.

Sorry Jenny but life is never that easy

TS do you mean MTF or FTM

I assume you mean MTF however

A MFT transexual is actually female in the wrong body so I disagree that they are homosexual

We could argue the degree of sexuality of each person but its a long way from being a no brainer

[Anna the Dub]

IMO, that's the way I see it.

Your brain chemistry and identity hasn't changed at all on HRT?

No, my identity hasn't changed at all. I identified as female before I started hormones (which let's be honest, is the reason why I wanted them in the first place) and I still identify as female now. And changes in brain chemistry have only strengthened and reinforced my feelings.

As for the gay thing, I strongly disagree with you. As far as I am concerned I am female. My brain is, my personality is, my gender identity is, it's just that my body has one piece that needs to be altered. I have already had an orchidectomy so this means that I can never return to how I was before, and now there is only the one thing left that needs altering.

[Jenny Brown]

No, my identity hasn't changed at all. I identified as female before I started hormones (which let's be honest, is the reason why I wanted them in the first place) and I still identify as female now. And changes in brain chemistry have only strengthened and reinforced my feelings. As for the gay thing, I strongly disagree with you. As far as I am concerned I am female. My brain is, my personality is, my gender identity is, it's just that my body has one piece that needs to be altered. I have already had an orchidectomy so this means that I can never return to how I was before, and now there is only the one thing left that needs altering.
We don't have to agree, and we can discuss this like adults, as I said this is just my opinion. You're mentally/chemically female due to HRT, but you don't yet have a vagina for a male to penetrate. That's where the line gets drawn on hetero/homo sexual as far as I'm concerned. If you and your partner have the same thing between your legs, it's not a hetero relationship if you have sex. I understand there is a possibility for some gray area here, but this is my opinion.:straightface:

[Anna the Dub]

We don't have to agree, and we can discuss this like adults, as I said this is just my opinion. You're mentally/chemically female due to HRT, but you don't yet have a vagina for a male to penetrate. That's where the line gets drawn on hetero/homo sexual as far as I'm concerned. If you and your partner have the same thing between your legs, it's not a hetero relationship if you have sex. I understand there is a possibility for some gray area here, but this is my opinion.:straightface:

Well, I don't have any testicles, and my penis has shrunk quite significantly. If a man could be said to have the same between his legs as I have, I think he would be bitterly disappointed. By the way, i don't have a partner, I was just posing a hypothetical question.

[Jenny Brown]

Well, I don't have any testicles, and my penis has shrunk quite significantly. If a man could be said to have the same between his legs as I have, I think he would be bitterly disappointed.
But you don't yet have a vagina. :sad: That was my point. No offense intended.

[Anna the Dub]

But you don't yet have a vagina. :sad: That was my point. No offense intended.

Ok, fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. We can agree to disagree. I don't yet have a vagina, but I will, I will :)

[Nicki B]

Jenny, what about those TSs who, for whatever reason, are unable to have surgery? In many places, they can legally be regarded as women.

But all that is beside the point, which was, are those who are attracted to them gay? Surely, if they see them as women, then they're not - closet or otherwise..

[Jenny Brown]

Ok, fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. We can agree to disagree. I don't yet have a vagina, but I will, I will :)
I can't even imagine how frustrating transition must be. Your avatar looks 100% femme if that's any consolation. Best wishes on your upcoming SRS.:battingeyelashes:


Jenny, what about those TSs who, for whatever reason, are unable to have surgery? In many places, they can legally be regarded as women.
But all that is beside the point, which was, are those who are attracted to them gay? Surely, if they see them as women, then they're not - closet or otherwise..
ya know...
We can "what if" or "what about" and make up hypothetical situations all day...
There has to be a line between male and female somewhere.
as I said, this is "my opinion". You're certainly entitled to yours.:battingeyelashes:

[Anna the Dub]

I can't even imagine how frustrating transition must be. Your avatar looks 100% femme if that's any consolation. Best wishes on your upcoming SRS.:battingeyelashes:

Thank you, always nice to hear. I can only see my faults. My SRS is still a ways off yet, as I am only going to transition officially this year, but I am pretty much wearing female clothes all the time now. I can bide my time though, I'll get there x

[Nicki B]

ya know...
We can "what if" or "what about" and make up hypothetical situations all day...
There has to be a line between male and female somewhere.
as I said, this is "my opinion". You're certainly entitled to yours.:battingeyelashes:

Jenny, you have your opinion.. But I wasn't 'what if'ing', I do know TS's like that. Some maybe will have surgery one day. But their blokes know them - and love them - as women. I'm certainly not going to suggest they're anything but.

The line you talk about is blurred. Some of us, like me, sit right on it. Like I keep saying, it isn't just a binary - nature always does variation, never absolutes.

[ReineD]

What about men who have long-term relationships and marriages with transsexuals - are they homosexual, too? (At least one who has married a TS is a member, here.) And where do you draw the line between TS and CD? Only if they've had reassignment surgery?

Forgive me, Reine, but in my experience, it's a lot more complex than that.

I know quite a few girls in long-term, steady relationships and their partners only see them as women. But, like everything else, it's never black and white - just as we aren't.

There's nothing to forgive! :hugs: I do agree it is complex if you consider the entire spectrum. Not one size fits all. But the OP I believe is a hetero CD married to a woman, and as such I did not think she would attract men who are interested in long-term relationships with TSs.



Alice may be comfortable with who she is (married to a woman, but having had affairs with admirers)- but it sounds as if she's preaching prejudice, to me.. :idontknow:

You may be a better judge of this than I. But Alice's description of admirers fits right in with the admirers my SO & I have seen in trans bars. One admirer sent over a proposition written on a paper napkin, and it wasn't clear if the admirer was propositioning just my SO or the both of us. :confused: Still, we haven't been to many trans bars and we may have just been to the wrong ones.

I did think that pointing the OP to Alice's experience would be helpful because they are both married to GGs and neither (?) plan to transition or have HRS. And as I mentioned earlier, they are likely to attract the same type of men?

[Tracy_Victoria]

Again, thank you for your suppport and advice. I am at home now and we just finished eating dinner. I was looking at my children and wife and I felt very happy to have them in my life. I would never hurt them. Thank you again for giving me that "virtual slap in the face". I really needed it. Thank god I decided to post my message here. I accept the way I am and I am happy being the man and woman I am. I will continue enjoying my crossdressing in a safe,healthy and happy way. Also I will continue being the responsible and loving father and husband I have been for the last 15 years.

Thank you all!

KOKA

Remeber the key to life!

ie life is wanting what you have! Not having what you want?

Good luck