Why does sexual orientation matter so much?

[KatieC]

Even if it were true that sexual orientation and gender were intrinsically related (which I don't believe), why does ones sexual orientation matter? The only people that ones sexual orientation should concern is ones lovers or potential lovers. Or to turn it around, unless someone is trying to get into my pants, why should said someone care at all what my preferences are? Or what is actually in my pants?

And yet, you see/hear it all the time. The disclaimers, the asides, the stating of ones sexual preference to people who aren't even potential lovers.

A lot of it is the homophobic "I'm not gay!" But why? Where did homophobia come from? If a man isn't a gay man, why would he care if I am? Is the ultra-macho alpha-male actually that afraid of being hit on? And even if alpha-macho-guy does believe that "crossdresser == gay" why would my femininity at all affect his masculinity? Why the transphobia? Where does *that* come from?

Is it just as simple as the too-human failing of hating and fearing anything/anyone that is different?

I don't understand it. And not understanding where it all comes from, I don't feel properly equipped to combat it.

Hoping that some of those around here so much wiser than I, might be able to give me some insight . . .

[celeste26]

Those awful labels yuck.

On the other hand as we go through life especially with this sort of confusing activity we do, what is common is to search for some place to hold on and labels offer that (at least a little). God knows those labels are slippery and we can slide from one to the next and back again.

If we dont know who we are it is darn hard to tell others who we are, so we deal with the label game and try to hold on.

Dont worry about the labels just be yourself and let the labels handle themselves.

[tricia_uktv]

Is it just as simple as the too-human failing of hating and fearing anything/anyone that is different?




Yes, thats exactly what it is. We are all supposed to be the same, or we can't be controlled!

Have fun

[Lorileah]

why should said someone care at all what my preferences are? Or what is actually in my pants?

I don't know but it seems that it is important in California and other states. How that affects me and my life and my ability to survive? No clue.




A lot of it is the homophobic "I'm not gay!" But why? Where did homophobia come from? If a man isn't a gay man, why would he care if I am? Is the ultra-macho alpha-male actually that afraid of being hit on? And even if alpha-macho-guy does believe that "crossdresser == gay" why would my femininity at all affect his masculinity? Why the transphobia? Where does *that* come from?

It came from the first guy who was drunk at a bar in 400 BC who thought the CD next to him was awful cute until he checked under the robe. ;) that's just what I heard at the Waterbuffalo meeting. Back to time out Lori.


Is it just as simple as the too-human failing of hating and fearing anything/anyone that is different?

I don't understand it. And not understanding where it all comes from, I don't feel properly equipped to combat it.

Hoping that some of those around here so much wiser than I, might be able to give me some insight . . .

Education is the only cure for ignorance. We must educate. Here we preach to the choir while the media makes a huge deal over the one guy who wears women's swimsuits in BF whatever. We don't help ourselves as you point out by making claims like "I am a .....HOWEVER ...." It's like if we distance ourselves from others we make ourselves more acceptable. We need to band together, that's what most groups who were discriminated against have done the last 50 years. They are not 100% accepted (thus the I am NOT gay crowd here even) but they have made in roads. How do you gain insight, you just did by posting a great question that will make at least one person here think.

We can teach the ignorant. Stupid should hurt ;)

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Even if it were true that sexual orientation and gender were intrinsically related (which I don't believe), why does ones sexual orientation matter? .

Hi Katie-

It shouldn't but it sure seems to. You do see it all the time, "I'm a CD but I'm not gay!" I guess it's okay to let everyone know just in case they think you're irresistible or something. Speaking strictly for myself, if I were not very happily married (which my wife assures me that I am on a regular basis) and free to, you know, mess around, who makes me go sploosh wouldn't really matter, they could be an inny or an outie. What matters is what sort of person they are. And maybe the car they drive. Just kidding. About the car.

Hugs...Joni mari

[trannie T]

As crossdressers we tend to be protective of our maleness. We dress in women's clothing but still tend to retain some macho attitudes and try to maintain some male credibility. Thus we may be out as crossdressers but still very sensitive about our sexuality.

[Nicki B]

I think you missed a bit, off your question -

"Why does sexual orientation matter so much, to some people?"


;)

[TGMarla]

If sexual orientation did not matter so much, there would be no need for any gay rights legislation, or any reason for transgendered persons to have any qualms about going out anywhere. True, it should not matter to me or anyone (save my wife) whether or not I'm attracted sexually to men, but still, I'm not, and I prefer not to have others think I am simply because I like to wear women's clothing and present as a female. It's an incorrect assumption when one makes the jump from one fact to one falsehood.

I think we all would like others to better understand us as a group. I think the percentage of crossdressers who are gay are about the same as the percentages in the general population. So to have others jump to a conclusion about sexual orientation simply because one enjoys dressing as a woman is to bolster an incorrect stereotype that would do us all well by simply going away, or being shown to be wrong.

There are already way too many people who prejudge us based only on assumptions and stereotypes.

[Nicole Erin]

People that are secure in the gender and sexual preference are not going to care.

Look, years ago before I finally admitted to myself who I really am, I was kind of homo- and trans-phobic.
Nowadays, I could give a lesser damn about someone's sexual preference or gender identity. Why? cause I am secure in who I am

Manly men who are afraid of GLBT are so cause they have unresolved gender or sexual issues. I suppose GG's who hate GLBT are probably the same way...

OR - maybe it is some religious thing?

[Sophie_C]

Even if it were true that sexual orientation and gender were intrinsically related (which I don't believe), why does ones sexual orientation matter? The only people that ones sexual orientation should concern is ones lovers or potential lovers. Or to turn it around, unless someone is trying to get into my pants, why should said someone care at all what my preferences are? Or what is actually in my pants?

And yet, you see/hear it all the time. The disclaimers, the asides, the stating of ones sexual preference to people who aren't even potential lovers.

A lot of it is the homophobic "I'm not gay!" But why? Where did homophobia come from? If a man isn't a gay man, why would he care if I am? Is the ultra-macho alpha-male actually that afraid of being hit on? And even if alpha-macho-guy does believe that "crossdresser == gay" why would my femininity at all affect his masculinity? Why the transphobia? Where does *that* come from?

Is it just as simple as the too-human failing of hating and fearing anything/anyone that is different?

I don't understand it. And not understanding where it all comes from, I don't feel properly equipped to combat it.

Hoping that some of those around here so much wiser than I, might be able to give me some insight . . .

It's because there's plenty of people who are bi or gay here who can't accept it or don't want their SOs to freak out about.

Remember, the loudest people in the room are that way for a reason. I'm quite sure the people who are basically 100% "straight" are the ones who don't make a stink about it (and really don't care), not the ones who do.

[Miranda-E]

A lot of it is the homophobic "I'm not gay!" But why? Where did homophobia come from? If a man isn't a gay man, why would he care if I am? Is the ultra-macho alpha-male actually that afraid of being hit on? And even if alpha-macho-guy does believe that "crossdresser == gay" why would my femininity at all affect his masculinity? Why the transphobia? Where does *that* come from?


The root oh homophobia isn't really that gay people are different, its the fear that they are the same, living normal lives and therefore much harder to marginalize. Its why the fight to make them live differently is so strong.

[gennee]

Society incorrectly sees gender identity and sexual orientation as one in the same and it's not. Transgender people can be hetero, bi, or gay. Gender is fluid more than people think. I've had days where I felt that I was neither gender. I'm a transgenderist and see myself as between a crossdresser and a transsexual.

I don't let labels define who I am. I embrace whatever comes my way.

Gennee
:)

[Teri Jean]

When people are faced with something out of the ordinary in their lives they try to put into a place they can understand eventhough it may be way off base. A walk down a path has many obsticals and side paths and who knows where life will lead you. In this case one may think they are hetro but as they move along their path they may find a different route.

But the thing that bothers me is when I out myself to individuals they automatically jump to a conclussion of sexual orientation. Education or lack of has the biggest factor as to where people go in understanding.

Keli

[gender_blender]

For me, my sexual orientation is important in order to attract the right kind of sexual partner (and keeps away the male gynandromorphophile demographic who are constantly begging me to be their next/first transgender sexual conquest). While it's true that gender and sexual orientation are seperate and distict personal preferences, it's important to share this information to discover the appropriate subset of potential partners. Many non-CDers make wholly unjustified assumptions regarding transgender individuals' orientation.

"Gay" is completely redefined for transgender indiviuals depending on different perspectives. I don't want to be seen as something I'm not: by the most conservative outside perspective, I'm a heterosexual male; by the most liberal, I'm transgender feminine lesbian. My personal identity lies somewhere between those labels.

[KatieC]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'd be typing all day if I tried to respond to everyone, so I'm not going to try. A select few though . . .


I think you missed a bit, off your question -

"Why does sexual orientation matter so much, to some people?"


;)

Well, what I should have asked was "why does sexual orientation matter so much to those to whom it matters so much?" But that's rather long for a thread title. And it's pretty circular.

But yeah. Some people. People who, in my unscientific observations, seem to far out number the people who realize that it shouldn't matter. I don't particularly mean here on the forums -- the number of people here who "get it" is wonderful -- but in society-at-large.


. . .

Education is the only cure for ignorance. We must educate. Here we preach to the choir while the media makes a huge deal over the one guy who wears women's swimsuits in BF whatever. We don't help ourselves as you point out by making claims like "I am a .....HOWEVER ...." It's like if we distance ourselves from others we make ourselves more acceptable. We need to band together, that's what most groups who were discriminated against have done the last 50 years. They are not 100% accepted (thus the I am NOT gay crowd here even) but they have made in roads. How do you gain insight, you just did by posting a great question that will make at least one person here think.

We can teach the ignorant. Stupid should hurt ;)

Excellent point about needing to band together instead of distancing ourselves from others. Thank you!

It would be nice if everyone everywhere could embrace differences as things to be desired rather than feared. I don't see that happening any time soon, unfortunately. Which is all the more reason for those of us who are "different" from the "norm" to stick together! Even if we are also different from each other.


For me, my sexual orientation is important in order to attract the right kind of sexual partner (and keeps away the male gynandromorphophile demographic who are constantly begging me to be their next/first transgender sexual conquest). While it's true that gender and sexual orientation are seperate and distict personal preferences, it's important to share this information to discover the appropriate subset of potential partners. Many non-CDers make wholly unjustified assumptions regarding transgender individuals' orientation.

"Gay" is completely redefined for transgender indiviuals depending on different perspectives. I don't want to be seen as something I'm not: by the most conservative outside perspective, I'm a heterosexual male; by the most liberal, I'm transgender feminine lesbian. My personal identity lies somewhere between those labels.

Understanding ones own orientation/preferences is most certainly very important. As I said in my original posting, it is legitimately of concern to ones potential lovers as well. I am fortunate to have never had to fend off unwanted sexual advances, so perhaps I am overlooking areas where being more open about ones preferences may be necessary to keep unwanted advances to a minimum. Food for thought; thank you.

[Sarah Doepner]

I will include my orientation in a post that relates to relationship issues I am familiar with so it will lend some credibility to my response.

If I am attempting to explain crossdressing to someone who has it all mixed up with sexual orientation, it's usually important to let them know where I fit on the scale.

It was very important to my wife when I came out to her and I haven't looked for a partner for a very, very long time. I think I would bring it up if I every got back in that mode, just to speed the process along with some sort of consideration for others expectations.

When meeting someone new in a Crossdressing environment it usually comes up fairly quickly. But again, it relates to what value I may bring to a conversation and what the limitiations to our relationship may be.

So it looks like I try to limit it to Education, Credibility and Personal Relationships.

Why does it matter beyond those areas? I think there is a lot of fear on the part of those who don't understand crossdressing driving the need to establish sexual orientation. It is one thing they think they know and we tend to shake the foundations of that little bit of knowledge (self-knowledge?) I wouldn't be offended by the question if it leads to a better understanding, or at least less misunderstanding.

[Annie D]

I am quite satisfied in my relationship with my SO and as a result, I no longer pronounce my sexual orientation because I am not looking nor want to be considered as a "prospect". If I am not looking or browsing why should I publicize it. We run across different types of people daily no matter how we are presenting ourselves and we certainly do not announce to them that we are a cd, homo, hetero, bi, eunich, or nymph. We mind our own business and I don't think we have to put out a disclaimer every time we have something to say.

I remember a time when the public, myself included, before stating an opinion used to say when talking about a minority, "I have a black friend, or I have friend who is a jew" in order to validate what was spoken next. I used to hate that and when I realized that I did it as well, I stopped. I don't want to start prefacing what I say about sexual orientation as well.

I also remember when I trained with the first paraplegic to run the St. Louis Marathon, and my children were afraid to touch the wheelchair for fear of becoming in a similar condition. Does anyone remember ignoring people with physical disabilities instead of embracing them as equal individuals. The fear of association or recognition was overpowering and it was not until we matured in our thinking that acceptance and understanding of one another finally became a reality.

Disassociating ourselves from someone who is different from ourselves is pretty narrowminded and bigoted. I think that our disclaimers on sexual orientation are very similar; let me say this about my sexual orientation because I certainly don't want to be confused as being part of "that" persuasion.

We, as a community, need to take a much more mature and educated stance on this topic and understand that we are really just a part of the same human race.

[Vicky_Scot]

Sexuality & Gender.

Two completely different things......IMO

Xx Vicky xX

[DinaMature]

And yet, you see/hear it all the time. The disclaimers, the asides, the stating of ones sexual preference to people who aren't even potential lovers.

A lot of it is the homophobic "I'm not gay!" But why? Where did homophobia come from? If a man isn't a gay man, why would he care if I am? Is the ultra-macho alpha-male actually that afraid of being hit on? And even if alpha-macho-guy does believe that "crossdresser == gay" why would my femininity at all affect his masculinity? Why the transphobia? Where does *that* come from?

Is it just as simple as the too-human failing of hating and fearing anything/anyone that is different?



Hoping that some of those around here so much wiser than I, might be able to give me some insight . . .


From one who has spent my working life in the 'hyper' masculine construction industry;

the alpha male expectation is that the gay wants to mount anything with a swinging d***.
And there is the slightly less common expectation that all gays are also child molesters - in particular prone to prey on little boys.

And if you do engage them in any discussion, to dissuade them of their errant views, you are immediately targeted as probably suspect.

And, just as stereotypical, these are often the same ones that target ethnic groups with n'bombs, hispanic hate, etc.

So, much of it some inherent abhorrence of "the other"- those that are different. Much of it springs from basic ignorance - a lack of culture exposure, but then a lot of it is seemingly again inherent: threatened by anyone that is different.

And part of the mechanism to demonize is to avoid using proper accepted language. "Blacks", "persons of color", even "negro" will always be substituted by less pleasant euphemisms.
Gay, crossdressers, and whatever level of transgendered will all be F**s.
If there is one odditty, it's the latins... I really haven't heard "spic" thrown around much... there is a guttural spitting of "mexican" always with a "damn" in front. And the rednecks really don't distinguish Guatemalan, Nicaraguan, Colombian... they're all just "d*** Mexicans"


But back to your original point, pertinent to members on this site... rednecks assume any gay wants to have sex with them, and assumes that gay man wants to mount him, to 'dominate' him.
And anyone that dresses in women's clothes is automatically assumed to be gay.


And why is that question of orientation so pertinent to us, regardless of the aforementioned alpha males?
Many of us are confused ourselves. We want to adopt the plummage of a female, which culturally are assumed to be the submissive-to-males sex partner. Again, societal communication will indicate that if we dress such, we must be gay.

I know I was confused for a long time and it probably contributed to my not accepting my own desire to CD. I don't feel gay, don't really want to be close to men on any intimate level, and yet... my expectation was when I dress, I'm supposed to feel that way.

And then there is the issue of our own loved ones.... they're confused all ready, not understanding our proclivity and making the general assumption that if we dress like women then we must want to 'get' with men. It really is an automatic assumption.
Now, it is a modern time... my own SO is very urban, has gay/TG associates and friends, and needed no reassurance where my interests lie. There are many enlightened people in the world, but... they are a minority. Accept that. Most will need reassurance and still not be able to deal with the truth of what you tell them. They will continue to distort the facts to fit what they think they understand.

[joannemarie barker]

i consider myself straight although i have fantasies with men in them but i guess thats just the thought of the whole fem package.there was a time that always plays on my mind though.i'm 37 now but in my 20s i suddenly really fancied this guy i worked with,so much so it aroused me just working near him.i pushed the thoughts away though

[Kate Simmons]

Why does it matter so much? Beats me Hon. As our friend Joy Carter likes to say: "The people who mind don't matter and the people who matter don't mind.":battingeyelashes::)

[RobynP]

Even if it were true that sexual orientation and gender were intrinsically related (which I don't believe), why does ones sexual orientation matter? The only people that ones sexual orientation should concern is ones lovers or potential lovers. Or to turn it around, unless someone is trying to get into my pants, why should said someone care at all what my preferences are? Or what is actually in my pants?


Well, someone who is excited about propagating the human species might care very much about what is in your pants... If what is in your pants cannot help them in their quest, then they may lose their excitement... I know this sounds kind of old fashioned these days with test tubes and surrogates...

Robyn P.