competing with 'her'

[helenr]

When crossdressing-or transvestism as I still view the condition-is so entrenched, an alter ego develops. We become the object of our own narcissistic love. I think this is inevitable as everyone needs someone to love and to be loved . Realistically we know that it is not likely most GGs will welcome another squaw in the wigwam and that is a bit what a crossdresser resembles. We try so hard to keep under the radar, but that desire and drive never cease. That alter ego is who loves us dressed pretty, who massages our hose encased legs,etc. For those of us in a committed relationship, there is no interest in meeting 'friends' through ALT or similar social networks.So what is left for us to cultivate but this safe friendship/amorous partner.

When calmness returns, it does create a real sense of guilt-that since this persona needs to be accepted and gratified, what does that leave for the tolerant spouse? If you can't perform as a normal husband, it is very sad for all. Yet as that alter ego gets stronger over the decades-and at 62 this means 55 years-who is left to be the 'normal' husband and what about the accepting wife's physical needs? a very sad dilemma.

[deja true]

Somebody's signature says, 'I couldn't find the girl of my dreams, so I became her...'

That seems to be kinda what you're talking about. And I think I sorta felt that way for a long time, even while still looking for my real true "other half". But that idea always got in the way of being truly open and honest with the women I was interested in and even lived with.

But the wide range of views expressed here on the integration of personalities and the idea of the bi-gendered viewpoint and so many other variations of "why we do what we do", brought me to an understanding that deja wasn't another seperate personality, an alter-ego, at all! She was me, as much as what's-his-name was.

So a lot of the adopted mannerisms and role-playing machismo that had kept me on my guard for so many years, were allowed to drop away. And believe me, giving up that actor's pose has made me a friendlier and better liked person, to myself and others...

We'll all have different takes on what the "she" part of us is, and how it may or may not be incorporated into the fullness of our lives. For me, unquestioning acceptance and integration was the answer. I feel I'm a whole person, a unified personality, not a collection of seperate or opposing entities anymore!

:)

[JoAnne Wheeler]

My Spouse changes her attitude moment by moment. She has given me the green light to dress whenever I want to.
HOWEVER, she is extremely jealous of JoAnne. She says that I love JoAnne more than her. I have told her that JoAnne and I are one and the same, yet she sees JoAnne as a seperate woman. She does not like having another woman in our house.
I have tried to tell her that there is MORE to crossdressing than just wearing feminine clothes. A huge part of my being is feminine and that part is JoAnne.
She says that all I think about is JoAnne and dressing up. This is not true, but she just does not want to compete with JoAnne. We are trying to reach a mutually acceptable division of time, money and thought between JoAnne and my Spouse.
Yet as I said earlier, she knows that JoAnne has to come out BECAUSE if she doesn't then I become so despondent that life is miserable for both of us. That is why she has given me the green light to dress.
BUT, she only wants me to dress and not to become JoAnne the woman. But I cannot do that. JoAnne and I are one. We live in the same body and we are inseperable. This leads to our arguments.
So in answer to your thread, yes, my Spouse sees JoAnne as both competition and as a threat.

JoAnne Wheeler

[Stacye Rose]

prehaps in some cases when we, for whatever cause feel unloved or unloveable by ourselves and for ourselves, having an "alter-ego" allows us not only to love some things about ourselves but creates a space in ourselves that it's ok for others to love.

[TGMarla]

At this time, I keep my femme alter-ego away from my wife, and she gets a man around the house when we're both around. Over time, this may change, but right now, that's the way it is. So she has no competition. But it is my opinion, skewed as it may be, and very unrealistic as it may be, that Marla dresses better than my wife does. But then, Marla decks herself out to the nines all the time, and like I mentioned, it's unrealistic.

Bottom line: I keep them apart, and they don't compete.

[docrobbysherry]

Than the experiences of posters above? Maybe!

I'm NOT aware of a feminine alter ego, and have no SO to deal with! Yet, I KNOW Sherry stands between me and a REAL relatuionship with a GG!

Sadly, I CONSCIOUSLY, would rather sleep with the many incarnations of Sherry, than the nice, older ladies I date!

I WONDER how many CDs with SOs actually PREFER the company of their female alter ego, to that of their SO? Maybe only subconsciously? Hmmm?

[MissConstrued]

We become the object of our own narcissistic love.

What's this "we" crap, Tonto? You got a mouse in your pocket? If you're going to talk a load of shit, at least have the courtesy to use "I" instead. We're not all f*cked in the head. At least not in the same way.




If you can't perform as a normal husband, it is very sad for all.

I'll bet you're really crying over that. Didn't you tell us you were taking estrogen? Was that an accident? Perhaps "don't want to perform" would have been a better choice of phrase.


This whole idea is stupid. There's no alter ego. There's no "her." There's just you, looking for an excuse to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic twat; looking for something other than honesty and self-control as the solution.

[Tamara Croft]

This whole idea is stupid. There's no alter ego. There's no "her." There's just you, looking for an excuse to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic twat; looking for something other than honesty and self-control as the solution.Wow, why don't you tell her how you really feel :eek: are you glad you got that off your chest now? gads... and people say I'm a bitch.... :eek:

[Deborah Jane]

What's this "we" crap, Tonto? You got a mouse in your pocket? If you're going to talk a load of shit, at least have the courtesy to use "I" instead. We're not all f*cked in the head. At least not in the same way.

I'll bet you're really crying over that. Didn't you tell us you were taking estrogen? Was that an accident? Perhaps "don't want to perform" would have been a better choice of phrase.

This whole idea is stupid. There's no alter ego. There's no "her." There's just you, looking for an excuse to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic twat; looking for something other than honesty and self-control as the solution.

:iagree: Whole heartedly.....There's nothing more i can add!!

[vivianann]

I do not crossdress to compete with GG's, nor do I think I am better than a GG. I dress as a woman because I identify as one so therefore I am more at ease dressed as a woman. I do not do this for narcisistic reasons. As Vivian I am accepted and loved by alot of peaple, especially women. When I am out dressed as a woman I am polite to peaple and I smile if someone looks my way, and I always get positive feedback from women, I am not in a relationship with a woman right now, however if I was I would be respectful to her wishes so as to not come accross as self centered. I have GG friends who like to go to dinner or a movie with me, sometimes they want me to go as a male (and I do go as a male) and sometimes they want me to go as a female, and I go as a female.

[pamela_a]

I've got to agree with Miss. Construed on this one. Well said.

-Pam-

[GaleWarning]

What alter ego? As stated oft times before, I am me, regardless of how I am dressed.

Helenr, there is no sad dilemma if you know what is lacking in your relationship, what you need to change in order to be better able to meet your spouse's physical needs.

Stop being selfish. Consider her instead of only yourself.

Either that, or stop whinging!

[sissystephanie]

I will have to be counted as another CD agreeing with MissConstrued! Please don't lump us all together as you did! Many of us just dress for the fun of it, and enjoy doing so. I know I do, and have done so for well over 60 years. As far as my late wife is concerned, we had a great relationship. I was her husband as well as being her best girlfriend!

You are only a transvestite if you dress primarily for sexual purposes. From other things you said, I doubt if that is your primary reason for dressing. From your post, I would deduce that you and your wife don't have very good lines of communication. Either that, or you want everything to go your way! An open, honest marriage doesn't work that way.

And Tamara, MissConstrued was not being b****y! She was just being honestly straightforward!

[ReineD]

When crossdressing-or transvestism as I still view the condition-is so entrenched, an alter ego develops. We become the object of our own narcissistic love.

There's a word for this: autogynephilia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogynephilia). Critics dispute the syndrome as being a convincing reason for transitioning, but the term still accurately describes a condition that would make it difficult for partners in relationships with AGPs to have their needs properly met within the relationship.



Yet as that alter ego gets stronger over the decades-and at 62 this means 55 years-who is left to be the 'normal' husband and what about the accepting wife's physical needs? a very sad dilemma.

So what does your wife has to say about this?



She says that all I think about is JoAnne and dressing up. This is not true, but she just does not want to compete with JoAnne. We are trying to reach a mutually acceptable division of time, money and thought between JoAnne and my Spouse.


So in answer to your thread, yes, my Spouse sees JoAnne as both competition and as a threat.

The competition is not so much how you are dressed, but how your focus changes.

How do you spend the time together in both guy mode and femme mode? If the two of you are accustomed to discussing current events, watching movies, sharing pastimes or other hobbies together, your wife may feel left out if during your together time this changes and you put most of your focus on yourself.

In other words, what else is different other than putting on femme clothes?



I WONDER how many CDs with SOs actually PREFER the company of their female alter ego, to that of their SO? Maybe only unconsciously? Hmmm?

That's the scary part, although it doesn't even have to be about the CDing. I imagine many SOs feel lonely or neglected if they are golf widows or their husbands prefer to spend time with their buddies drinking beer & watching football games. Sad indeed.


We're not all f*cked in the head. At least not in the same way.

I'll bet you're really crying over that. Didn't you tell us you were taking estrogen? Was that an accident? Perhaps "don't want to perform" would have been a better choice of phrase.

This whole idea is stupid. There's no alter ego. There's no "her." There's just you, looking for an excuse to be an inconsiderate, narcissistic twat; looking for something other than honesty and self-control as the solution.

As much as I agree with your point, there's no need to be insulting about it. It is HelenR's prerogative to transition. But I do agree it would have been much kinder to have been honest about this years ago so as to allow Helen's wife to move on with her life if she wanted to.

One important piece of information that is missing from Helen's post is how her wife feels about all of this. As far as we know, Helen's wife may well have a very rich life with friends, family and career, and she may not feel she wants HelenR to perform husbandly duties.

[helenr]

thanks to all for taking time to comment. I like how Reine D can take quotes and insert comments-really organizes the nice and nasty comments and adds useful input. For us, my crossdressing or being transgendered is that unspoken elephant in the room. It is not the most enjoyable of topics as "I" know it isn't the ideal persona for a husband. Wives are entitled to being the only ladies in the household-they are fiercely insecure about this, I feel( I am excluding, logically, female children,grandma,etc). I agree with the link to autogynephilia. Blanchard is not a very sympathetic character, but has some good points. This may indeed be the core issue-for me and I suspect many others if they would be honest with themselves.
I do think we can have multiple personalities. Yes, I am in control of Helen, but she exists since Society doesn't approve of effiminate males. It doesn't take long to figure that one out. I wish that being Helen didn't divert attention from my wife, being a macho husband. I am very considerate, she never wants for anything material, we pursue all her cultural interests-opera, music, plays,etc-I just can't be the sexual partner I am sure she would wish for. Relationships evolve and I guess it comes down to if there are enough good aspects to it to maintain it. Hell, I bet over half of all 'mature marriages' (the kids are out of the home) are those of convenience-maybe the percentage is closer to 3/4? Why is sexual performance so darn emphasized-the nightly ads for Cialis, etc-you'd think that this is all women want? Relationships are so complicated.

[ReineD]

Probably many marriages with partners in their 50s and 60s suffer from infrequent or no sex. I don't have any data to back this up, but I've gleaned this from talking to people over the years and reading articles here and there. But, IMO people in these types of relationships have settled and have become resigned. They have issues they have not dealt with and the prospect of divorce is too scary for them. It is likely that resentments have built up over the years and there are many tensions (bickering wife, silent and uncommunicative partner, passive-aggressive behaviors from both, very little joy felt when spending time together). So they lead platonic lives together and just wait for retirement, or busy themselves with independent hobbies. I would guess they are NOT emotionally intimate on many levels and GGs in these relationships have best friends with whom they primarily bond with emotionally.

Many people will say that sex isn't "everything" in a relationship, but in my view it is a d*mn good barometer of relationship health. Before, during, and afgter sex are moments where you feel at your most vulnerable and feel closest with your partner. Words don't need to be exchanged to convey powerful feelings. These are times when partners come together emotionally and solidify their relationships.

Sure, people can have casual sex then move on and although it can be satisfying physically, it is an empty experience emotionally compared to making love with a partner that you cherish.

Helen, you've made the decision to eradicate your male functionality. If this is a decision both you and your wife made together, then there is no reason to feel guilty. But if you've made this decision alone, I'm afraid the only way to relieve your guilt feelings is to discuss the issue with your wife, find out how she feels about it, and let her go if she does not want to be married to a TS. Or if neither of you wants to end the relationship, perhaps you both will agree she can get her sexual needs met elsewhere? The point is the issue will be out on the table and you both will have a chance of getting your needs met, rather than just you.

And if your wife does choose to move on, please don't blame her. There are many GGs who do not feel they can be married to a TS partner, and it is their prerogative to feel this way, just as it was yours to alter your body.

What joy is there in living a life with an elephant in the room?

[tricia_uktv]

Ha-ha, this one's lively. I've now been seriously doing this for about two years. Over time the two different sides of me are merging into one - but remember I'm out and doing it not locked away. We both support each other in everything we do now. The trouble is I know who is going to win, but I don't know where it will take me.

But then, I suppose, thats what makes life fun!

[Satrana]

Many people will say that sex isn't "everything" in a relationship, but in my view it is a d*mn good barometer of relationship health. Before, during, and afgter sex are moments where you feel at your most vulnerable and feel closest with your partner. Words don't need to be exchanged to convey powerful feelings. These are times when partners come together emotionally and solidify their relationships.


I agree with that during the initial years of the relationship, but when you have made love for the 1,000th time, is that still relevant? IMO, women see sex as the physical component of the "I Love You" message. Words are easy to say, sex is the proof in the pudding. After all a man can only perform if he is feels desire, so it is used as a barometer of a man's feeling of love.

The problem is that there are many things that can affect a man's sex drive. So if he stops for whatever reason then women are can read between the lines - he no longer loves me, he no longer finds me attractive, he has found another etc. Therein lies the danger of placing too much emphasis on sex.

[Joanne f]

It would be impossible to compete against my self as good or bad it is still me, and as for competing against my wife , impossible as well as she is far to attractive, feminine, sexy and nice plus she is a lot younger than me and i why in the hell would i want to , sorry i just don`t get it :doh::doh:

[ReineD]

The problem is that there are many things that can affect a man's sex drive. So if he stops for whatever reason then women are can read between the lines - he no longer loves me, he no longer finds me attractive, he has found another etc. Therein lies the danger of placing too much emphasis on sex.

True, unless they talk about it. I should hope that a wife in a connected relationship would understand any physical or psychological reasons why her husband can't perform (I absolutely hate that word and I'm wracking my brain to find a substitute :p).

I found this common sense article about the psycho-physiological reasons men have low libido (http://blogs.webmd.com/sexual-health-sex-matters/2006/09/top-10-reasons-men-dont-want-sex.html). If partners communicate well and the wife assures her husband that she loves him and knows that he loves her despite the issue, I am guessing they could still enjoy sex together even if it does not involve penetration. They would still experience the emotional and physical intimacy that comes with being sensual. And they could take their time to work together on discovering if there are any physical barriers that contribute to the issue. But, if the husband purposely chooses a path that takes away his desire, then the wife should be included in the decision so she can be allowed to find alternate solutions for herself if this is what she wants. :hugs:

[Jan W]

Very lively debate girls and some very good points raised.

My view on this is to imagine what it would be like as a woman married to a transgender man.

I'm pretty sure I would not like it and this is coming from a transgender man.

With regard to healthy sex in a loving relationship I do agree it is something of a barometer. Add to this the needs and expectations of a normal healthy heterosexual woman and I think she is in a situation she did not sign up for.

I know it has been expressed many times but most (not all!) of us thought our desires would dissipate as we entered marriage and for most it did - unfortunately only temporarily.

If I knew then what I know now I would not have subjected my wife to any of this but then my two wonderful children would not have been born so where does my selfishness leave me? Confused, frustrated and feeling very guilty.


Jan

[docrobbysherry]

Why is sexual performance so darn emphasized-the nightly ads for Cialis, etc-you'd think that this is all women want? Relationships are so complicated.

In MY opinion, Cialis and the others, r NOT being marketed toward women! Women have NO PROBLEM reaching orgasm. Because they can ALWAYS fake one, if they REALLY want to. Ever heard of a guy faking an orgasm? :eek:
Ok. I did ONCE! But, never dated the lady again.


I agree with that during the initial years of the relationship, but when you have made love for the 1,000th time, is that still relevant? IMO, women see sex as the physical component of the "I Love You" message. Words are easy to say, sex is the proof in the pudding. After all a man can only perform if he is feels desire, so it is used as a barometer of a man's feeling of love.

The problem is that there are many things that can affect a man's sex drive. So if he stops for whatever reason then women are can read between the lines - he no longer loves me, he no longer finds me attractive, he has found another etc. Therein lies the danger of placing too much emphasis on sex.

And, in fact, MOST women that have DONE IT 1000 times with the same man, know EXACTLY what they need to do or say, for him to become erect and climax!


True, unless they talk about it. I should hope that a wife in a connected relationship would understand any physical or psychological reasons why her husband can't perform (I absolutely hate that word and I'm wracking my brain to find a substitute :p).

I found this common sense article about the psycho-physiological reasons men have low libido (http://blogs.webmd.com/sexual-health-sex-matters/2006/09/top-10-reasons-men-dont-want-sex.html). If partners communicate well and the wife assures her husband that she loves him and knows that he loves her despite the issue, I am guessing they could still enjoy sex together even if it does not involve penetration. They would still experience the emotional and physical intimacy that comes with being sensual. And they could take their time to work together on discovering if there are any physical barriers that contribute to the issue. But, if the husband purposely chooses a path that takes away his desire, then the wife should be included in the decision so she can be allowed to find alternate solutions for herself if this is what she wants. :hugs:

Reine, I DON'T think u r naive. What I DO think is, u probably have an unusually good MARRIAGE! Judging by your posts, I'd say u r an exceptional person, as well as, wife! :o
Because of that, u may not be aware of how MOST marriages work!:sad:

When my marriage was working well, it was as u described. No matter the stress, arguement, or situation, we made up and had great sex! This went on for years!:)

Then, something happened to my ex. She lost interest. In me, sex with me, etc. She suddenly STOPPED PUSHING MY BUTTONS!:brolleyes:
She ALWAYS knew the rite buttons to push to get my motor started! Once started, I ALWAYS tried my best to please HER!

When she lost interest, I lost interest. In her, and in sex! No amount of Cialis would have helped me/us, either!

It is MY theory that it is the WOMAN in long time relationship, that is the QUARTERBACK! She either calls the signals, or pretends to respond to his, that leads to "touchdowns" later on in marriages!:D

If she's NOT interested in playing, no one scores! Never mind how much Cialis he takes! Guys take Cialis trying to be the "young studs" they once were! Not realising the problem with their sex life is failing because of their aging "prom queen"!

" Nothing cures erection problems like a 25 y/o hottie"!

Works for me and Sherry, anyway!:devil:

[ReineD]

What I DO think is, u probably have an unusually good MARRIAGE! Judging by your posts, I'd say u r an exceptional person, as well as, wife! :o
Because of that, u may not be aware of how MOST marriages work!:sad:

Lol. Thank you, :hugs: but no. My marriage with a non TG ended after 30 years because of lack of emotional intimacy (ability to be real with each other and to care), not lack of sex on his part. It was the opposite for him ... just sex with no regard to what I needed emotionally. GGs are wired differently and after being in a marriage for years the requisite for mind blowing sex ;) is a good emotional connection.



When she lost interest, I lost interest. In her, and in sex! No amount of Cialis would have helped me/us, either!

That's exactly my point, no matter WHO loses interest in sex, or who stops caring about the other's emotional needs. It is hard (no pun intended) for one half of the relationship to keep the romantic fires burning if the other changes the rules without saying why. Then other things begin to fall by the wayside and before you know it, each partner seeks emotional fulfillment elsewhere: with TG friends for him and best GG friends for her. Or they seek covert sex elsewhere. They each develop other priorities than the relationship and resentments begin to fester.

If emotional needs are met, and this means caring enough about your partner to be honest, discussing issues as they arise no matter how painful, making decisions with your partner while putting everything on the table, then the relationship continues to be the priority rather than each person's individual need and compromises can be reached. It CAN be done. It is called respect .. for self and the other.

And if one partner wants to transition (or become a missionary and move to a 3rd world country) and the other partner can't live with this, then putting it on the table early in the relationship will help each partner to make healthy decisions for themselves. Not every marriage can survive such drastic changes.

:hugs:

[Satrana]

True, unless they talk about it. I should hope that a wife in a connected relationship would understand any physical or psychological reasons why her husband can't perform

I think hope is the key word here because I think in reality many women would cease to understand after a period of time if it became a long term issue.

Our culture has over-emphasized sex and has raised expectations to an unrealistic degree. Mix in the old gender "duties" of a man to perform and you end up with sex being a burden.

Personally I think people take sex way too seriously. I think it is a very funny thing to do and often laugh and giggle during it. I would hate it if I felt my performance was being measured and calibrated against others. Pressure and sex are not bed fellows but our cultural expectations make it so.

[ReineD]

Pressure and sex are not bed fellows but our cultural expectations make it so.

Having experienced pressure myself, I completely agree with the first part of your sentence. :) My husband and I would have done much better if we could have talked about and had been willing to work together on our issues. There are three components to a marriage: each partner's and the relationship needs. Without going into details, there wasn't enough trust and emotional connectedness between us nor was there an ability on my husband's part to consider our relationship needs along with his own needs. I placed his basic needs over mine for many years and this caused such a large imbalance in our marriage that it impacted how I felt about him. And in a situation such as Helen's, where it looks as if she willingly made decisions to change her body without considering their effect on her relationship and without thoroughly discussing the emotional impact on her wife, there is bound to be damage done. The guilt and resentments alone would erode closeness and this has nothing to do with cultural expectations.

I'm not assigning all the blame on Helen. Her culturally induced internalized oppression or internalized transphobia made it difficult to address her needs many years ago. Also, I'm not saying Helen should not be taking hormones if this is what she needs for full personal expression. But it could very well be that Helen and her wife were not meant to have been married or to have a long-term marriage due to their mismatched gender/sexual needs. It would have been much better to have examined the issue before now, where because of their ages it may be difficult for each to move on and establish meaningful relationships with more compatible partners.

I truly do not believe that some individuals' need for sex, nor the degree to which it is desired, is cultural. Physical needs and emotions are both biological and they are intermingled. And physical intercourse does not have to be the goal when being sensual or sexual; homosexual couples have fulfilling sex lives too. Difficulties emerge when there is an imbalance between the partners' needs, i.e. when one wants physical and emotional intimacy and the other doesn't, or when both partners are sexually attracted to the same gender, but one of them is not bi.

:hugs: