I got pulled over...

[melissa_rinaldi]

It finally happened. One of my worst fears, being pulled over by the police while dressed. I know I haven't posted (or visited much for that matter) in ages - but I felt the need to share this. I was out shopping, and on my way back home. I pulled out of the lot, on to the access road, about a 1/4 mile from the freeway. As I'm taking a left, I notice a CHP officer 90 degrees to my left in the left hand turn lane. It was at that point that I realized I hadn't buckled up yet. When the light changed behind me, he gunned it through a u-turn, and cut another car off. He hit the lights and that was it. Strangely, I felt sort of relieved in a strange way. Like I've been living this lie for 40 years, and now I'm finally caught. I pulled over and fished in my bag for my license. I don't believe he realized I was male until he saw the license. After the look of recognition hit his face, I have to give him a ton of credit - because he continued to treat me with indifference, if not extra courtesy. I was actually more upset when then went back to write the ticket, than I was about getting found out. $132 for a seatbelt. Well, it could have been a lot worse I suppose.

Back to my feelings on this. I have this slight fear in the back of my head that my female presentation will be leaked as a result of this - but then I can't see how. I've had the opportunity to get out a lot in the last week. I groomed my brows over the course of a few weeks in the spring, and have perfected them in the interim. They aren't razor thin, but when I put on the wig and makeup - wow! what a difference! I am certain that this, plus a new wig has allowed me to pass so succesfully this week, that I have literally bumped into people and am certain I was not read. The true test for me is passing in front of kids, and teens. I walked through crowds of teens a few times with NO reaction. I've tried on clothes at least 10 stores, used the rest room, and generally done anything that a woman would do without reaction. Now I've been what I considered to be lucky in the past, but those days were limited. Either the world has chosen to ignore me, or I finally got it right. Stranger with this is that the 'thrill' I used to get when going out dressed, hasn't surfaced. Instead, I simply feel comfortable, and peaceful. This causes me to want to stay out longer, and simply live the day like this. But unfortunately, that can't continue.

[Empress Lainie]

The cops are trained to treat you with courtesy no matter which gender clothes you wear.

I was stopped the 2nd week of my transition. My license still had my male name and a picture of a bald guy on it. I looked more or less like I do now.

He made no comment was all business and told me to be careful when he finished and handed me the ticket for 61 in a 45 at midnight. I really think he clocked the car that passed me.

Another time my SO was stopped and I was in the car, and the cop insisted on calling her sir. He said he had to go by what was on the license which was her male name and of course M. Other than that he was also polite. But he is the one that assaulted us with his police car, driving at night with no lights of any kind on and tried to pass us on the left after we had signalled for 300ft and had already gone into the left lane. He actually wrote collision on the ticket which didn't happen.

I think you have no fear of being outed anywhere from that my dear.

I thank the gods every day that I have F on my driver's license.

BTW You are a real doll.

[Melinda G]

The cops are not your friends these days. We're living in a police state, that is only getting worse. Notice they don't have Police Field Days anymore. Might be a tad embarrassing when no one showed up!

[cdbethany]

i got stopped by the blues last week while out for a walk.i was wearing a black dress with tights and heels but no wig or makeup,i felt why bother it was past midnight i was already dressed as bethany and i realised i needed cash for the morning and unless i went out id not be able to get any.i could have got changed but thought to hell with it.

i went out the front and walked across the side lawn toavoid being spotted by neighbours and my parents who dont know i dress. walked around the corner and down the street meeting back on the main road 200 yards from home.
i got 20 yards down when a car started to come towards me,this didnt really bother me usually just taxi's that time of night so i kept walking but was suprised when it started to pull in and realised that it was the 5-0.
the officer rolled his window down and asked if id come from a party,i could have lied and said yes but then id have to think up an address and if they checked there would be hell to pay.
i said i was just out for a walk,his reply was do you always dress as a lady when you walk.i said whenever i get chance ignoring his remark about being in womens clothes(i hate the whole clothes steriotype,male and femail seperate)and he just smiled and said ok.i gave my details and my records check was clear so they wished me on my way and said enjoy your walk sir before speeding off roaring with laughter,jackasses!

love and kisses
bethany xxxxx

(dead crossdresser walking)

[Ralph]

The cops are not your friends these days. We're living in a police state, that is only getting worse. Notice they don't have Police Field Days anymore. Might be a tad embarrassing when no one showed up!
Yeah, we're just as bad off, if not worse, than those folks in Iran and China. They have TONS more freedom than we do!

What, specifically, do the cops prevent you from doing that you want to do? So far, police oppression in my town has consisted of: Helping me recover a stolen bicycle, helping me push a stalled car off a main road into a parking lot, and responding to our call when our home was vandalized. I can't believe those rotten pigs had the gall to do all that to us.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Yeah, there are cops who are buttheads, just as there are buttheads among nearly any occupation you can name. Most cops have received hours of training in sensitivity regarding minority issues including TG and gay contacts. Some get it, some don't. The vast majority will treat you with professional courtesy whatever their own feelings. Unfortunately, there is always the chance of running into someone who takes the fact that they have a badge as license to be rude, discourteous or worse.

If you can, get the officer's name and/or badge number and file a complaint. Many departments, at least larger ones, have ombudsmen to deal with citizen complaints of this nature and will allow you to remain anonymous if you truly fear some sort of retaliation. Generalized fear, dislike or even outright hatred of police is simply counter-productive. As with so many other things, nothing will change unless we stand up.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[pinkheels]

I got pulled over on Halloween last year fully dressed. I was very fortunate for it to happen on that night because I at least had an excuse to tell him other than that I enjoy doing it. The officer was very polite and asked if I had any difficulty driving wearing the clothes. I think he was a little to interested in what I was wearing as well because he asked me if he could see me walk around in the heels. I had the feeling the whole time even though he never expressed anything to me that he might do it on the weekends. It was tough to walk around in what I was wearing because I went for very provocative on Halloween wearing a short pvc skirt, blouse, 5" heels, and was done up very well. It was an interesting night but I wonder what he would of said if it was not Halloween.

[karynspanties]

The cops are not your friends these days. We're living in a police state, that is only getting worse. Notice they don't have Police Field Days anymore. Might be a tad embarrassing when no one showed up!

It's all a big conspiracy!! They're all to get us!!! Run.....hide..

[Cole]

Some police are nice, others are not. Unfortunatly, around where I live, the police are young and have the authority going to their head. I got pulled over a couple weeks ago, dressed as a man, and the officer was rude as can all be with me. As was stated before, they can have all the training in the world, but some of them just don't get it. Maybe they will when they finish maturing, and maybe they never will.

[Shari]

Male or female, the seat belt cops are out to get us all.
Melissa honey, from the looks of your avatar. I'm not suprised the cop and most people don't read you at all.
You make me very jealous, you know. I'll bet you make a lot of us jealous.

[trannie T]

I dislike getting stopped by the cops so I always (almost always) drive carefully. I drive only a little above the speed limit, use the turn signals, watch traffic lights and always, always fasten the seat belt. If I do get stopped I treat the officer with respect, you may not be able to talk your way out ofa ticket but it is very easy to talk your way into one.

[Jodi]

Male or female, the seat belt cops are out to get us all.
Melissa honey, from the looks of your avatar. I'm not suprised the cop and most people don't read you at all.
You make me very jealous, you know. I'll bet you make a lot of us jealous.

"seatbelt cops are out to get us all"? Well, they should. Anyone with half a brain knows to wear a seat belt or helmet.

I worked a career in rehabilitation and was very good at what I did. Because there were many people who refused to wear seatbelts and helmets when they cycled, I saw the aftermath, and I always was snowed under with business. My facilities paid me a lot of money to work with these proud non wearers of seatbelts and helmets.

I guess I should be thankful for those who refuse to wear seatbelts and helmets. Because of their stupidity, I was always employed, and I'm now able to live very well and buy designer clothes.:heehee:

Jodi

[josie_S]

I was driving back home on a cold late night in December when I saw those blue lights in my rearview mirror--um, the panic i felt was incredible. There I was, heels, black dress, all made up and the frightening thoughts that went through my head when I was pulling off the side of the interstate--yet somehow I still managed to check my lipstick in the vanity mirror :P

When he came up, he had that same confused look for a second when he saw my license and when he saw me. But he was so cordial and even sweet--I wonder if that's how women get treated by cops?--that whatever lingering fears I had went away. Turns out I had a burnt tail light. Gave me a warning and told me to get it fixed as soon as I could. Then he said 'thank you and have good night' and gave me my license back.

There was two things I was glad of that night: First, that he was such a gentleman and very sweet about it all...
And second: I don't drink...WHEW!

There are nice ones out there!

[KimberlyJo]

Sounds like you had the best experience you could possibly hope for with that officer! As for the ticket, well if your state has a seatbelt law and you ignore it, then you're asking for it. Personally, I can't ride in a car without a seatbelt on, it feels weird to me and I don't like it.

[docrobbysherry]

:heehee:
Yeah, we're just as bad off, if not worse, than those folks in Iran and China. They have TONS more freedom than we do!

What, specifically, do the cops prevent you from doing that you want to do? So far, police oppression in my town has consisted of: Helping me recover a stolen bicycle, helping me push a stalled car off a main road into a parking lot, and responding to our call when our home was vandalized. I can't believe those rotten pigs had the gall to do all that to us.


I was driving back home on a cold late night in December when I saw those blue lights in my rearview mirror--um, the panic i felt was incredible. There I was, heels, black dress, all made up and the frightening thoughts that went through my head when I was pulling off the side of the interstate--yet somehow I still managed to check my lipstick in the vanity mirror :P

When he came up, he had that same confused look for a second when he saw my license and when he saw me. But he was so cordial and even sweet--I wonder if that's how women get treated by cops?--that whatever lingering fears I had went away. Turns out I had a burnt tail light. Gave me a warning and told me to get it fixed as soon as I could. Then he said 'thank you and have good night' and gave me my license back.

There was two things I was glad of that night: First, that he was such a gentleman and very sweet about it all...
And second: I don't drink...WHEW!

There are nice ones out there!

U two girls PROBABLY DON'T live in SCal! We have THE WORST traffic and drivers here! Unsafe lane changes, running red lites, tailgaters, and our newest law, illegal talking on your cell phone! :doh:
I see these UNSAFE traffic violators EVERY DAY, by the SCORE! Getting tickets? NO WAY!:eek:

Instead, it seems the police prefer to waste their time and ours, with $132 seat belt violations!:Angry3:

Same thing happened to me in drab. On a side street, going from one parking lot to another!

OK, rant over! I feel MUCH BETTER NOW!:o

[Deidra Cowen]

Well sweetie I am gald the police stop did'nt go too badly! There are good cops and bad ones!

Personally I was coming home from work a month or two ago. There was a big fire (not my place!) anyway they had the street blocked off and the cop I rolled my window down to speak with was RUDE AS FREAKING HECK! I was in boy mode by the way, was very polite and professional with him, just was trying to establish it was not my place burning down!

On the other hand I have met two Tgirls that were cops...they both were sweeties!

My only enfemme run in with the Police (not counting just seeing them like at resturants or being security at a bar) was a party we were having with a bunch of Tgirls at my old GG GFs condo. The neighbors called the police, someone was a dummy and let the cops in. They searched around even looking in purses but found nothing looking for drugs. They were not polite but not rude and left without further incident.

[lottarosie70]

seat belt laws (and helmet laws) interfere with natural selection.

or so i've been told.

[Angie G]

I know a GG who got tapped for $160+ for a phone call.:hugs:
Angie

[AllieSF]

I was pulled over by the CHP (California Highway Patrol) this past week while dressed up at about 12:30 AM. I had spent the day walking all over San Francisco shopping, and then dinner and later a show, Tingle Tangle, held in conjunction with the Pride festivities this last week. On the way home with a friend from this site and with the cruise control on I saw the red blinking lights come on and the loud speaker blaring giving me directions as to where they wanted me to pull over.

My heart sank when I saw the lights and heard the siren, thinking that I may get a DUI citation. I had a 3 drinks from dinner around 8:30 till the last around 11:30. The officer and his teenage looking partner were very polite and professional. He proceeded to ask me a series of written questions from where I was, what I was doing, previous health issues, medical problems, sleep issues, medications that I was taking, etc. All this prior to the balance tests, standing on one foot once just lifting one foot up with my hands by my sides and then with one foot pointed out like a proper lady and counting out loud. He also had me do a hand exercise and checked the dilation of my pupils and how my eyes followed his pen as he moved it back and forth in front of my eyes.

The grand finale was the breathalizer test. I had to breath into the small hand held device twice, once to calibrate the machine and the second to take my reading. He asked me to sit in my car, checked the reading and then gave me my drivers license back. I had passed his tests and had a reading of 0.04, which is half of the legal maximum of 0.08. He said drive carefully and of course we left as quickly as we could after getting directions from them on how to get back onto the freeway.

The funny thing about this whole experience was that I was not in the least bit nervous about being stopped while en femme. Thanks to all the past posts here on just this subject and to the fact that I have been going out a lot during the day and night recently. I was more concerned about getting a DUI conviction and all the costs and follow-on problems resulting from having that on my record.

The reason they pulled me over was because they said that I had crossed into the other lane briefly. I know I was very tired from sleeping poorly the night before, all the walking that we did that day and being out late this night. We were also talking a lot taking our time and I was probably distracted somewhat. The drinks didn't help the fatigue. Lessons learned: tell the truth, drive carefully, have a cup of coffee prior to hitting the road when tired, be extra vigilent to not drink too much, which I always try to watch and avoid, and that the police will treat you fairly and correctly if you act properly with them.

Yes, I was very relieved to be on the way with only a warning.

[Wrenchette]

At least he treated you well.

However, I am aggravated that they can just pull you over for not having your seat belt on. That is NOT law enforcement. It is FUNDRAISING.

He tried to cause a collision to go after a "serious law breaker"...God forbid not wearing a seat belt will kill someone else...I guess it's okay to run red lights and not stop for stop signs as long as you're weating that seat belt.

Sorry, rant over, back to your regularly scheduled madness already in progress.

[Jessica Who]

Well, it's good to hear that you were treated fairly, even if you did get a ticket. I was scared when I clicked, thought I was going to read something bad, but I'm happy that I didn't.

[denns61]

I think he saw a pretty girl and wanted to flirt with her. You were pulled over for driving while hot.

[Christinedreamer]

Not wearing a seat belt is like pouring a good dose of chlorine in the genepool. Thank you to all non seatbelt advocates.

[Persephone]

The cops are not your friends these days. We're living in a police state, that is only getting worse. Notice they don't have Police Field Days anymore. Might be a tad embarrassing when no one showed up!

I live in the heart of a big, urban sprawl, just the kinda of place that you would expect to be "anti-police," and I have to tell you that we do have neighborhood meetings with the police and, routinely, a couple of hundred people show up to each one. We also have police appreciation events throughout the year including a couple of fund raisers to offset extra items for the department and we always have hundreds of people at those events too.

If you think we're living in a police state, then hun, you have no idea what one really is!

[cd_jamie]

doing what I do for a living I get to spend lots of time dealing with cops. some are ok but most are not ok. like the A hole who wrote me a ticket for driving a truck with a broken windshield after I called them because a kid tossed a cement block off a bridge and broke it. that cost me $500 for the fine.

alot of how they treat you comes from training. in my state most of the state police are former marines. the locals are everything from former military to fat slobs that ate too many dounuts

[Mya Summers]

There are cops out there that are still rude even when ur nice to them cause it's either their way of living or cause they had a bad day, and there are cops out there that can go from a bad mood to a good mood with just a warm smile and hello how is ur day. If I was to go out driving here in my small town it would be on the next days radio broadcast and the local paper cause I live in a tiny town where pple love 2 gossip, u pass gass the person on the other side of town knows about it b4 ur done passing it lol.
But seriously there are good cops and bad out there. At least it didn't go bad for ya hun.

[melissa_rinaldi]

I appreciate all of the responses. I was at fault for not having the belt on, even though I was in the process of reaching for it when I saw him. I had just pulled out of the lot. But it's still my bad. My only concern was that he drove somewhat recklessly to catch up to me, even though I was going about 30, and approaching a red light.

I went out again tonight - no problems with the law. After my past few nights of no one noticing me, I pushed the envelope a bit. I changed my hair to a dark blonde wig, and wore a VERY Short skirt with my heeled boots. I went to target and Kohls, and got a little more attention. In fact I got a lot. And I'm sure I was read as a result. Still, I had a ball trying on cute skirts - and would have bought some if the store wasn't closing. Then I decided to see a movie. Done this before with no issue. I picked "the proposal" thinking that I wouldn't run into any obnoxious people. First mistake. Second mistake was walking in about a minute before the trailers stopped. Full house. At 10 pm. I found a seat in the corner, next to a LARGE group of young people. Let's just say that I might as well have had a spotlight on me. I bolted after five minutes. I asked for it, and I got it.

Also, you should all realize that I do NOT look like my avatar when I go out. That shot was done by Jamie Austin, who can make anyone look great. Not that I look like a dude with a wig, but I don't look that good.

[JOJO44]

I had a scare a couple years ago when I went around a corner and found flashing lights everywhere! :eek:
Our state has traveling DUI checkpoints and I had just run into one, and was fully dressed :worried: (and shaking like a quaking aspen leaf).
The officer was very courteous, asked for my drivers license and insurance papers which I dug out of my purse and gave to him. He then asked if I had anything to drink, (no) and would I please wait in the car. He looked at the papers and said "just a moment sir". :brolleyes:
When he came back to the car and handed them back he said OK, thank you "sir", (:brolleyes: again) please drive safely and went back to his car.
I was made, but nothing has come of it, so I guess I escaped that one.
And no, I still have not come out of the closet. Small town fear.
But I still :daydreaming:
Love to all,
Jo

[AlannahNorth]

COPS SEATBELTS & ATTITUDE

I've had a lot of dealing with cops - because I was raised in a family where my father was a policeman. He was straight forward about it. He said "take a dozen people off the street and put them in uniform - then watch how they behave". Well, that's where our cops come from. In my experience it's something like the 80/20 principle - to the flavour of "about 80% of the people in any given job are acceptable in their performance, (which is about a mediocre grading) and the other 20% are the ones you wish were doing the job.

Cops are people, and there is good and bad. Some areas are prevalent with the 'good' component, and others are strewn with the 'bad' component. Much of it depends on where you are, and when.

I've driven all my life with seatbelts, they're mandatory in Ontario. A lot of my friends complained about them, so I eventually came back with "Okay - don't wear it, and stop complaining - but if you get caught and charged - fine, you technically broke the law - you didn't wear it so don't complain". I know this doesn't sit well with some people. IF you do get caught, play it smart and don't talk yourself into a bigger fine or another charge, particularly the kind that ends up in the paper with your name attached to it. I don't think any of us wants that kind of publicity.

I've never been pulled over while dressed, and (I hope) I never will be. If it ever happens I'll just have to play it the best I can.

[Raquel June]

When the light changed behind me, he gunned it through a u-turn, and cut another car off.

So, he put several other people in danger just to write you a ticket? Isn't it lovely to have police so concerned for our safety?




The cops are trained to treat you with courtesy no matter which gender clothes you wear.

Not around here they aren't.




Yeah, we're just as bad off, if not worse, than those folks in Iran and China. They have TONS more freedom than we do!

What, specifically, do the cops prevent you from doing that you want to do? So far, police oppression in my town has consisted of: Helping me recover a stolen bicycle, helping me push a stalled car off a main road into a parking lot, and responding to our call when our home was vandalized. I can't believe those rotten pigs had the gall to do all that to us.

That's kinda sad that the only examples you can come up with for folks who are worse off than us are Iran and China. The US has a lot less freedom than most countries.

You think we have freedom? What, do you think Americans are just all bad people and that's why we have 3% of or population in prison? More than ANY other country? More people -- both raw total and per capita -- than China or Russia? You think we have freedom just because we get to choose every 4 years between two of the most corrupt people in the world to lead us?

Just think about this logically. If we were free then we would be able to choose where our tax money went. Would anybody choose to pay cops to sit on their asses writing speeding tickets or seatbelt tickets? Would anybody choose to pay the military to invade countries on the other side of the world, or would we just pay to have actual defense? What if there was a check box on your taxes that said, "Should every family in the US increase their tax burden by over $100,000 to fund a bailout of bank stupidity?" I don't think I'd check it. OK, there aren't really any countries that break it down like that, but do we really have freedom when the government acts so contrary to the what the public wants?

If a 16-year-old boy has sex with a 15-year-old girl in California, the boy is guilty of rape even if the girl says she gave consent. But then the 16-year-old can be tried as an adult, and will get 8 years in prison for raping a minor. Tried as an adult, but not able to drink alcohol till he's 21. That's freedom we should be happy about?

What do cops prevent me from doing? They arrest me if I drink a beer 10 feet from my apartment in the parking lot (not public intoxication, just having it in my hand). They write me a ticket if I forget to put on my seat belt. Oh, they responded the two times my car was broken into, but they certainly never got me any of my stuff back. They can't be bothered to protect anybody because they're too busy writing tickets. Hey, if I was a cop and I could choose between raiding a crack house or sitting by the road writing chicken sh*t tickets I suppose I'd just sit in my car, too, but that doesn't make it right.

Cops pulled me over for "speeding" last year (they actually pulled me over for leaving a gay bar at 3am) and ended up giving me 30 min. of sobriety tests (which I passed, but they apparently lost the tape of me passing them), then somehow managed to charge me twice with a DUI even though my breath test said 0.056. They refused to give me the public defender because apparently making barely enough to pay my rent means I can afford $2000 for a lawyer. The judge literally laughed at me when she read what I was wearing in the police report, then spent the rest of the time talking with someone about the McCain rally that was in town before giving me the maximum sentence for a first offense.




I drive only a little above the speed limit

So doesn't that make you a hypocrite? I mean, you gave me an awfully hard time about drinking less than the legal limit, and you were awfully adamant about there not being any gray areas, but you admit to driving over the speed limit which is unsafe and endangers people.




However, I am aggravated that they can just pull you over for not having your seat belt on. That is NOT law enforcement. It is FUNDRAISING.

Exactly. And where does it stop? We'd all be safer if we wore crash helmets, so why not make those mandatory, too? I should not be charged over $100 if I choose to drive to the grocery store 1/2 mile away at 25 MPH without putting on my seat belt.




Not wearing a seat belt is like pouring a good dose of chlorine in the genepool. Thank you to all non seatbelt advocates.

Yeah! After all, it does make you 0.00000001% more likely to be injured any given day that you don't put on your seatbelt.

Let's just be honest here. The crap you shoveled in your face for lunch is more likely to lead to your untimely demise than not wearing your seatbelt. It is totally ridiculous that it is illegal for us to do "dangerous" things that have no chance of harming anybody but ourselves. Dangerous things are some of the few things that make life worth living. Are we just supposed to sit at home and watch Price is Right and wait to die of natural causes?

[serinalynn]

Melissa: the biggest thing you did was to co-operate with the officer! Once the officer sees you are being honest and following his or her directions the better you will be treated. The law states the officer must write a citation for seat belt violations. There is no law saying a man cannot wear womens clothing or even pass as a woman while out in public.

[Raquel June]

Once the officer sees you are being honest and following his or her directions the better you will be treated.

Most people think that's true ... but while you should certainly be polite and follow his directions, you should never answer any questions.

No matter how innocent you are, no matter how honest you want to be, you shouldn't talk to cops. If you need a good explanation why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Maybe it seems off-topic, but even admitting you knew you were speeding, or admitting you'd had a single drink in the past 24 hours, or saying sorry for anything can make you seriously wish you'd kept your mouth shut.

[jenna_woods]

most cops are ok. I have been pulled over 2 and had no problem at all, in fact the frist time I was stoped I asid I wass sorry about the way I was dressed and the cop said its up to me the way I want to dress no busniss of his, and both times I did not get a ticket.guess they like sexey blonds:o

[Jackiefl]

a couple of days ago my wife and I got stopped for not wearing seat belts.
we each got a ticket for $115. apiece I was not dressed at the time, the officer first asked if we had throwen a cigarette out the window, fortunately we both had a lit cigarette in our hands. When we tolde him that we did not he informed us that not wearing a seatbelt is a primary offense.
what is that all about I thought this was the U.S.A. the land of the free. I understand that I have no right to endanger anyone else, but it seems to me that wether or not I wear a seat belt effects only me. What happened to my freedom of choice !!!!!!!!!!!!:2c:

[Christinedreamer]

Well speaking from personal experience with seatbelts and the protection they afford, I hope that anyone who refuses to wear one will not object to having their insurance cancelled as I help to pay for the rescue and treatment of those traumatically injured by NOT wearing one.

My parents both suffered broken backs in an accident they were in that killed the three people riding in the car that hit them. The impact was at a combined speed of almost 100 mph (50/50 mph each.) The large station wagon my parents were in was buckled at the roofline and the hood came through the windshield. My father had a compund fracture of his right leg, his foot was at a 90 degree angle to his leg. He had a coompund fracture of his right arm and and half torn off nose. My mother's back was completely separated and the spinal cord stretched but not torn.

The three people in the other car that spun out and hit my parents were are killed from massive head trauma. Not one wearing a seat belt.

Today my parents are a healthy 84 years old. They walk with no problem, and bear only surgery scars to repair the bones.

To see the cars no one would believe it was a survivable crash.

BTW, the cops and rescue folks in Hamilton Township N.J saved my parents' lives. The cops were able to cut my dad and mom's seat belts and get tham safely away from the carnage.

Seatbelts DO save lives. Most cops are OK and will give respect if you dont act the fool with them.

If you hate cops, the next time you need help, who ya gonna call? Are you willing to put your life on the line at the drop of a hat?

A society without basic rules of behavior and a police force to ensure some form of responsiblity is not a society, it is anarchy.

If the USA is such a "police state" and some here are so enamored of other countries, I will contribute the first hundred dollars to a ONE WAY ticket to anywhere you wish to go and BTW your passport will be confiscated and destroyed upon exiting our borders.

Sorry ladies, but some of the comments here have touched a few nerves.

[AlannahNorth]

SEATBELTS, DEMOCRACY & POLICE STATES

Well, this seems to be a very lively topic!

Okay - seatbelts first. You do have the choice as to whether or not you wear your seatbelt, BUT if you get caught you will be charged and end up paying a fine. I suppose I could also point out that whether or not you pay the fine is also your choice. Considering that seatbelts DO save lives, they're probably just a good idea. It's true that your chances of getting in an accident while not belted in are slim - but can you foresee when this accident may happen? I've yet to see a planned accident and I've been hurt too many times. What I object to is the fact that if you get broken up because you were not wearing your seatbelt, I (along with the rest of the insurance payers and tax payers) get to pay for your rescue, treatment, recovery - and whatever else. I did nothing, but I also have to pay for your decision. However, I'm not going into a serious whine about that - I'm very happy that there is some sort of a net in place to help us out. I've made my share of bad decisions, and many times it's been someone else who's pulled me out of the mess.

I live in Canada, but just as in the United States, I live in a "limited, representative democracy" (that may be worth looking up...). The little democracy that we actually get to express is very limited (and only occasional), and the real decisions end up mostly in the hands of our representatives - who seem to be interested in anything but representing us.

Over the years I've travelled a bit, and I've spent time in more than one true police state. If you've ever been in one, you learn to appreciate what we have here, and we do have it good (by comparison). There are other places where it's better in some ways, but over all we're doing quite well. Lots of room for improvement - true, but we have it good.

You'll find good people pretty much wherever you go, and along with them you'll find some knuckledraggers. Hopefully you get to avoid the latter.

And by the way, if you are in a accident, and busted up without your seat belt on, if I happen along, I'll do whatever I can to help you, same as anyone else.

Well there, you've got my opinion. Safe travels to you all...

[Samantha Girl]

I am so sorry Melissa sweety! :( That sucks, I would just die!:o BTW, generally I don't like cops, there are many reasons, that's all I've got to say about that ;)

I've only gone out once, on friday evening I took my 1st drive as Samantha and panicked a bit after I passed a cop. I was close to home, parked fast, jumped out and fell on my face! :p and ended up with some boo boos :heehee: (As seen in my pics) My girl had a good laugh about it :)



Still, I'd rather have had the experience I had than the one you had, sorry again :(

[Kristen-Gaye]

My CD friend was pulled over going home from my place for random breath testing. She said that the officer showed no reaction at all. I guess cops see a lot worse things in their job than a 'man in a dress'!

[Jena11]

I was Sunday morning around 9:30AM and I was leaving my friends house and was very tired, I of course had makeup and my hair done large hoop earrings, and was looking like a woman. The weird neirborhood has all these stop signs down one street, I apparently went through one of them. I just do not know. but of course my windows are black on my car and it is a BMW so I am profiled already. When he turned his lights on I stopped and rolled all my windows down. He seemed cautious and then when I handed him my ID he then asked form my insurance and registration, in the glove box, my hands were shaky and he asked why my hands were shaky, I told him I was tired and he made me nervous. He just asked if I had anything illigal in the car and I said no sir. He then had another officer there who was just watching in the passanger side of the car. He thanked me for rolling down the windows because he could not see in. I got a ticket but I said thanks for treating me with respect.

[Raquel June]

Well speaking from personal experience with seatbelts and the protection they afford, I hope that anyone who refuses to wear one will not object to having their insurance cancelled as I help to pay for the rescue and treatment of those traumatically injured by NOT wearing one.

I know two people who have been in accidents where they were thrown from the vehicle because they weren't wearing their seatbelts. If you saw the cars after the accident (both were sports cars vs. idiots driving SUVs) you would know that they would be dead if they were wearing their seatbelts. In one of the wrecks my friend was launched out of the top of an MR2 and the officer on the scene actually said to her, "Well, I guess I won't cite you for not having your seatbelt on seeing as it saved your life."

I'm not saying that's a common occurrence. Far from it. But your argument is bogus. Where does it stop? Should your insurance be cancelled if you don't wear a seatbelt? Why? There are people who wear their seatbelts all the time who have cost their insurance plenty money by being bad drivers. I haven't had any kind of wreck in 15 years, and I guarantee I'm safer than the average person out there with or without a seatbelt. Your rates go up if you're a bad driver, and your rates should go up if you get in a wreck without your seatbelt on, but it's stupid to say we should take away your insurance (and therefore take away your ability to drive at all legally).

I'm normally opposed to "slippery slope" arguments (and I do wear my seatbelt most of the time), but that's ridiculous.

Why not force people to wear a 5-point racing harness? They are much safer than seatbelts.

Why not force everybody to install airbags in old cars?

Why not force everyone to wear crash helmets?

Why not force everybody on bicycles to wear helmets, knee pads, elbow pads and kevlar vests?

Why not make all convertibles illegal?

Why not totally outlaw motorcycles?

Why not revoke the licenses of everybody who doesn't have natural 20/20 vision?

Why not? Because it's an inconvenience, and we should all have the right to weigh our personal safety vs. how much inconvenience and personal intrusion we can tolerate. You have the right to tell me I'm an idiot if I don't put on my seatbelt. You should not have the right to say, "You're an idiot. Give me $120."




You do have the choice as to whether or not you wear your seatbelt, BUT if you get caught you will be charged and end up paying a fine. I suppose I could also point out that whether or not you pay the fine is also your choice. Considering that seatbelts DO save lives, they're probably just a good idea.

That's flawed logic. You pay a fine for not wearing a seatbelt. That means not wearing a seatbelt is wrong in the eyes of the law. But the law should not be concerned with whether or not anybody is wearing a seatbelt. Victimless crimes should not be crimes. If I choose to endanger myself or if two consenting adults choose to endanger each other we don't need to bring the legal system into it.

The fact that seatbelt fines have doubled and are now a primary offense in most states is just an excuse to make money. There is simply zero excuse for the police to be wasting their time with those kinds of bullsh*t tickets when there is actual crime out there that they should be dealing with. Why do your job when you can chase honest people down and take their money instead?


Over the years I've travelled a bit, and I've spent time in more than one true police state. If you've ever been in one, you learn to appreciate what we have here, and we do have it good (by comparison).

That's true, but we shouldn't invite infringement on our ability to do what we want just because you can point out that there are some really huge sh*tholes in the world and we should be grateful we don't live there. There's a lot of room for improvement.

[JOJO44]

I know two people who have been in accidents where they were thrown from the vehicle because they weren't wearing their seatbelts. If you saw the cars after the accident (both were sports cars vs. idiots driving SUVs) you would know that they would be dead if they were wearing their seatbelts. In one of the wrecks my friend was launched out of the top of an MR2 and the officer on the scene actually said to her, "Well, I guess I won't cite you for not having your seatbelt on seeing as it saved your life."

I'm not saying that's a common occurrence. Far from it. But your argument is bogus. Where does it stop? Should your insurance be cancelled if you don't wear a seatbelt? Why? There are people who wear their seatbelts all the time who have cost their insurance plenty money by being bad drivers. I haven't had any kind of wreck in 15 years, and I guarantee I'm safer than the average person out there with or without a seatbelt. Your rates go up if you're a bad driver, and your rates should go up if you get in a wreck without your seatbelt on, but it's stupid to say we should take away your insurance (and therefore take away your ability to drive at all legally).

I'm normally opposed to "slippery slope" arguments (and I do wear my seatbelt most of the time), but that's ridiculous.

Why not force people to wear a 5-point racing harness? They are much safer than seatbelts.

Why not force everybody to install airbags in old cars?

Why not force everyone to wear crash helmets?

Why not force everybody on bicycles to wear helmets, knee pads, elbow pads and kevlar vests?

Why not make all convertibles illegal?

Why not totally outlaw motorcycles?

Why not revoke the licenses of everybody who doesn't have natural 20/20 vision?

Why not? Because it's an inconvenience, and we should all have the right to weigh our personal safety vs. how much inconvenience and personal intrusion we can tolerate. You have the right to tell me I'm an idiot if I don't put on my seatbelt. You should not have the right to say, "You're an idiot. Give me $120."





That's flawed logic. You pay a fine for not wearing a seatbelt. That means not wearing a seatbelt is wrong in the eyes of the law. But the law should not be concerned with whether or not anybody is wearing a seatbelt. Victimless crimes should not be crimes. If I choose to endanger myself or if two consenting adults choose to endanger each other we don't need to bring the legal system into it.

The fact that seatbelt fines have doubled and are now a primary offense in most states is just an excuse to make money. There is simply zero excuse for the police to be wasting their time with those kinds of bullsh*t tickets when there is actual crime out there that they should be dealing with. Why do your job when you can chase honest people down and take their money instead?



That's true, but we shouldn't invite infringement on our ability to do what we want just because you can point out that there are some really huge sh*tholes in the world and we should be grateful we don't live there. There's a lot of room for improvement.




I too am a far safer driver than most (and have the driving record to prove it) I personally believe that seatbelt laws and helmet laws (bicycle and mortorcycle) are not part of what our goverment is authorized to do.
I also believe that any one who does not wear them is taking a chance on their own well being. If they are in an accident with insurance, bully for their team. If they are in an accident without insurance . . . Well I hope they have deep pockets, because I don't believe I should contribute to their laziness, indifference, carelessness or whatever.

I believe it was post no. 35. I too will contribute a hundred bucks toward their one way trip to the country of their choice. Please, do us the favor of living your convictions in the country of your choice.

Thanks for allowing me to sound off.

Seatbelt laws and helmet laws are wrong, and so are the people who do not wear them.

[AlannahNorth]

I realize that not everyone has had good experiences with the police. I've had (that I can remember) one mildly bad experience, and almost all of the rest were quite good. It's not like I'm some angel or anything - much of it was simply good fortune.

Wearing a seatbelt will not guarantee that your injuries will be lessened in a crash (no matter what you are wearing...) I may be off in the numbers here, but as I understand it, in about 3 percent of crashes the seatbelt works against you and will cause major injuries or death (you'll rarely ever hear about that). In many crashes, a portion of the injuries are a result of the seatbelt itself - but it usually still works out heavily in your favour.

Raquel, I largely agree with most everything you've said. Seatbelts are mandatory almost everywhere that I'm aware of (at least here in North America), and yes, the cops have the right to charge you for breaking the law if you're caught not wearing one. I've been pointing out facts, but that doesn't mean I condone the behaviour of the police all the time. Far from it. I really would like to see them spend their energies going after real crime, and those who actually are bad drivers. I've known many drivers who've refused to wear their seatbelt, and some of them are very good drivers. Also, my point about having the choice to pay the fine (although true) was a bit of tongue in cheek. I like a good conversation, and have been known to throw a few sparks into the powder keg to get one.

As to the police states of the world vs our situation here, I raised the point to emphasize the reality of what we do have. I'm going to be the first to (very strongly) agree - we need to protect what we have, because if we don't, we WILL lose it! Passivity will get you nowhere.

So - there's no good reason for any cop to mistreat, disrespect, ridicule you or give you a hard time because you are driving in a skirt and heels. Wearing a bra while driving is not against the law (at least not around here). There are some areas where the cops have a bad reputation that they have earned, and once again, (thankfully) most of them are pretty good around here. Having said that, I could take off now and drive to the corner store and get pulled over by a real Neanderthal - which is just simply wrong. If I'm not wearing guy clothes at the time, I know that it will likely be even worse. But it shouldn't be - not for anyone.

[Rebecca Lynn 33]

Let me first start by saying I respect everyones opinions.I have been ticketed twice in Ct for no seatbelt.The first time the officer got me as I merged onto the highway.After handing me my ticket he asked if I had any questions.I will admit I was furious and was out of line. I asked him if seatbelts save lives why when I was driving tow truck,I had to respond to 4 fatal wrecks and two people had seatbelts on and two did not.At one of the accidents the officer on scene was overheard saying he would have survived if he was not belted.Two other drivers stood no chance belted or not.The fourth person may have survived if they were belted.He did not have an answer.The last seatbelt ticket I got was in a gas station parking lot:eek:.It was not worth contesting it for $37.00.But the real kicker was I know for a fact the driver in front of me was drunk but they were only worried about seatbelts.

[Melinda G]

First of all, do seatbelts save lives? Probably a few. But they also cause deaths, especially in Florida where a number of cars have gone into canals or lakes, and drivers or bystanders couldn't get the seatbelts unhooked quick enough. Have you ever seen a headline, "Driver was wearing seatbelt, and died anyway"?

Secondly, get a scanner and listen to the cops a while. They stop people for the flimsiest excuses, just to run them through the LEIN computer or Law Enforcement Information Network. It's called "fishing". They stop you for some petty alleged offense, and let you go. You think you got a break. But the statistics show they have to run a dozen people through the computer, to get an arrest. So they go for the volume. They stop a car, and demand identification from everyone in the car, and run them all through the computer, even though they only have probable cause with the driver. They wouldn't stop a tour bus full of seniors and demand identification from all the passengers, but they do it with everyone else, just because they can.

And in Michigan, the state troopers are required to make 2 1/2 "contacts" per hour, or 20 per shift. Not necessarily write a ticket, but they have to make 2 1/2 contacts per hour, unless their log shows they were busy with something else. That was in the newspaper, and the troopers were protesting it. But it remains in force.

Thirdly, they get Federal Funds for seatbelt enforcement, and they are expected to produce results. I have heard cops call in at the end of their shifts, and say they are taking a couple hours overtime "on seatbelts"!
Whether seatbelts save lives is not the issue. As someone else posted, what's next, crash helmets? Forced obesity treatment? Banning cigarettes would save more lives, but they need the revenue. Like everything else, this seatbelt crap is all about the money.

And all those sadistic idiots who were involved in the torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo, and were "just following orders", will be coming to a police dept near you.

[Raquel June]

I suppose there's no reason for me to get bent out of shape about seatbelt laws when there are so many other laws that are worse. But the bottom line is that the police want you to break these laws because they want to make money from you, and any law that they actually want you to break is probably not a good law.

Why is the DUI limit 0.08 when I've never heard of anybody causing an accident who was under 0.20? Because they want to make money. As bad as drunk driving is, they actually want you to break that law, too, because the police make about $500 and the BMV makes about $500 every time they give out a DUI. If they thought you were a menace they would throw you in jail (and that's what they actually do most of the time if you're seriously drunk), but if you're under 0.15 then you're their best friend and they're happy to let you go and hopefully give you another one next month. It's pretty disturbing that they actually have DUI quotas.



Secondly, get a scanner and listen to the cops a while. They stop people for the flimsiest excuses, just to run them through the LEIN computer or Law Enforcement Information Network. It's called "fishing". They stop you for some petty alleged offense, and let you go.

Around here cops don't bother coming up with an excuse before they run your plate. They run every plate they pull up behind, and if your tags expired today they're giving you a ticket even if you're pulling into the BMV to renew them.

Yeah, it's illegal for them to run your plate unless they already have a legitimate reason to pull your over, but it's also illegal for them to give an outside company access to the LEIN system. But every city with red light cameras does (those are operated by a private company, not the police).