What do i do about my family? A long post!

[Clare]

I didn't think this thread was suitable for the Mtf section (my usual haunt), so i hope its ok here.

As some may know, my wife left me in early May and took my 3yrs Son, car, furniture, money, the works!

I then lost my job immediately therafter as i needed the car as part of my job profile. So with no money, i had to clean up the house and get it ready for renting. I then moved interstate to live with my Dad as i had no other option to support myself.

Today my ex phoned my Father and said she was all set up and living comfortably in Australia's capital city and very happy. She inquired about me and Dad said i wasn't handling things too well and perhaps he had better to talk to me first before my ex contacted me direct.

So here's the cruncher. She wants to discuss whether its possible we can reconcile, but it appears to be on her terms only! She blames me for all her problems and why she split in such a dramatic fashion. Ok, so i know i was part of the problem and accept that, but my missus has been suffering from depression for a very long time and has never sought help despite my insistance she do so.

In order to be with my family, it appears i'm the one who has to give concessions, seek therapy (which i'm already relying on to stay alive from week to week) and generally live under her rules - or so it seems to me from what Dad said.

Now, since i have already lost everything, why should i give up on equality in a relationship? I love my son, but the love for my wife has waned over the last 10 weeks and i have become very angry with her over the way she has just used me for nine years. She knows she has the advantage now and i feel that she is trying to use it to influence me to get her way.

My gut tells me not to give in - hold my ground whilst trying to arrange a reconcilliation, but i don't know if i can pull it off just now. When i get a job in Canberra and have some cash, i plan to take legal action to sell all of the furniture (which means she loses just about everything she took - from the car to the crystal glasswear).

She will phone or possibly email me on Wednesday, and i don't know how i should approach her - this will be the first time we have spoke since the day before she left me!

Some advice please?

Christine

[Jenny Beth]

I am sorry to hear things have turned out the way they have. It seems right now though that your wife has offered an olive branch to reconcile and even though she has set some terms I don't think you should just walk away because you don't agree. What is needed here is talk, lots of talk and without either of you losing control of your temper. If you both want to save your marriage comprimises need to be made and whether or not you can live with them is something only you can decide.

[Sharon]

This thread might not have a direct relation to crossdressing (although I disagree), Christine, but I'm moving it to the MtF section (perhaps just temporarily though) so that you get more responses.

In regards to your "gut": I have learned to trust my gut, it usually is a lot more intuitive than my heart. On the other hand though, it can't hurt to speak with your ex- and tell her exactly what you feel -- about everything.
Good luck, no matter what you decide to do. :hugs:

[Wendy me]

i would say that if it's a one sided thing then it's set up so you have to fail...see weather marryed or work or any thing one sided dosen't work well ...that give and take
thing... stay with the therapy and talk this over there ...as far as going after her for the car and things....you said you love your son , and i do belive that my heart goes out to you ... but if you go after her for the things might that in some way hurt your son ??

good luck to you. in my thoughts and prayers ....huge wendy hugs...

[Julie York]

I am not married so forgive me if my insights aren't that accurate. But I would say the first stage of your thought process needs to be "Do I want to save my marriage?"

When you have decided that, you can then decide on what terms, or what you should THEN do.

The answer to that question is the thing that then leads to what actions you might or might not take next. If you are unsure of the answer to that question then you will simply be going round and round in mental turmoil with no destination and may make some very bad decisions that can not be undone.

Good luck anyway.

[Lisa Maren]

Hi Christine

I agree with Julie that you should ask yourself if you want to save this marriage.

I am a huge believer in give-and-take, negotiation, compromise and equality in a relationship. However, it seems very clear to me your wife is not interested in compromise.

Someone who waits until she's left you with nothing (not even your son) is just not a person who can be construed to be interested in negotiating. What she wants is control, pure and simple.

But that may not necessarily mean all is lost.

I would open and maintain a dialog with her and see where it goes... but you two need to go to a marriage therapist in the process. It is critical that you know exactly what's really going on with her putting you in this position.

Further, you need to take all reasonable protective measures. You may well need to hire yourself some legal services. Try to work it out, but follow your brain above and beyond your heart right now.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Melissa A.]

Hi Christine,

You seem to have answered many of your own questions, and also have a good take on what it means to give your heart to another-and expect the same in return. I think you already know that what she is proposing is not reconciliation-that would be an attempt to care about happiness for you both. What she is talking about is simply getting back together. Maybe for the child's sake(not a completely unnoble desire), maybe for the sake of not being alone. You sound like someone who is having natural responses to all of this-the anger, the lessening of your feelings for her, etc., and also sound like someone who, financially and job wise, will eventually end up on their feet, despite the current difficulties. We all go through that from time to time, for whatever reason.

Counseling is probably a good idea. You have had a life and a child together, shared love, and, I'm sure, some good times in your history. There is no reason not to try.

But take away the leverage! And let her know she does not have it. Then see what it is she really wants, and why. As a father, homeowner, and property owner, you have the same rights that she does. As a husband, you have a right to expect a reconciliation to take into account your happiness as well as hers. And you both have to want the same things. Dot your i's, cross your t's, protect yourself legally, and then find out. And love your son, as i am sure you are. Show him.

I would base my decisions not on the way things are now, but on what my decisions will make them be.

I wish you all the strength and luck in the world.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

[Melissa Ryan]

Hi Christine, There does not seem to be to much more that I could say or add to the advice that is already being offered. But I want you to know that I am thinking of you.

Good luck!...........Melissa R

[Lady Jayne]

[QUOTE=Christine Johnstone]
As some may know, my wife left me in early May and took my 3yrs Son, car, furniture, money, the works!



Today my ex phoned my Father and said she was all set up and living comfortably in Australia's capital city and very happy. She inquired about me and Dad said i wasn't handling things too well and perhaps he had better to talk to me first before my ex contacted me direct.

So here's the cruncher. She wants to discuss whether its possible we can reconcile, but it appears to be on her terms only!

Christine I may be missing something here, but if she is so happy without you why would she consider reconsiliation. I can't help but think maybe she's realised that the grass isn't greener after all.


She blames me for all her problems and why she split in such a dramatic fashion. Ok, so i know i was part of the problem and accept that, but my missus has been suffering from depression for a very long time and has never sought help despite my insistance she do so.

There are no quick fixes for depression but the first step to recovery is to accept responsibility for your own wellbeing. If she blames you for all her problems she dosen't have to admit that she has issues, I think they call that transference. More to the point if you are the root of all here problems why would she consider taking you back.



In order to be with my family, it appears i'm the one who has to give concessions, seek therapy (which i'm already relying on to stay alive from week to week) and generally live under her rules - or so it seems to me from what Dad said.

I'm not sure your in as weak a position as you think! However the only way you can be sure is to talk to her.


Now, since i have already lost everything, why should i give up on equality in a relationship?

As Wendy so rightly said relationships are built on compromise, one thing you can never do is give up equality.
I was in a destructive relationship for over 12 years and found the hard way that in an unequal relationship the more one partner (remember that word Partner) gives the more the other one takes. I found that as hard as I tried to please her it was never good enough and in the end I was constantly on edge thinking "what am I going to do wrong next", You can't live like that it eats away at you until you have no self esteem left.


I love my son, but the love for my wife has waned over the last 10 weeks and i have become very angry with her over the way she has just used me for nine years.

Anger is a destructive emotion no good ever came from anger. What she did,yes it was wrong and yes it hurt but if she really is depressed she can't really help herself. If you can get over the hurt you may even find some compassion for her may be even pity.


She knows she has the advantage now and i feel that she is trying to use it to influence me to get her way.
My gut tells me not to give in - hold my ground whilst trying to arrange a reconcilliation, but i don't know if i can pull it off just now. When i get a job in Canberra and have some cash, i plan to take legal action to sell all of the furniture (which means she loses just about everything she took - from the car to the crystal glasswear).

Again I agree with wendy whatever happens you don't want to make your son a victim in this. Though if things don't work out I see no harm in trying to get a better settlement. However once you start legal action all negotiations stop and the only ones to win are the lawyers.



She will phone or possibly email me on Wednesday, and i don't know how i should approach her - this will be the first time we have spoke since the day before she left me!

Agree to meet her face to face preferably in a public setting where things can't get too heated, remain calm and above all don't make promises you cannot keep!

This is just my opinion I hope you find at least some of it helpfull but remember your the one at ground zero so only you can really know if your marriage is worth trying to save.
Best of luck
Love Jayne xxx

[Holly]

Christine,

As it has been stated already, a marriage is a partnership. Partnerships can only survive when both partners contribute to the relationship. Please talk to your wife. See if there is any mutual ground that the two of you can agree on. (The best interests of your son would likely be at least one)? And please don't allow your dad to act as a filter to what your wife is communicating. Even though dad may be very well intentioned, he may not be communicating accurately what your wife is trying to say. Establish your limits and don't allow yourself to compromise beyond themBe reasonable but be fair, with her as well as with yourself.

You have a tremendous amount of support here, Christine. Please don't be afraid to take advantage of it! Best of luck.

[Clare]

Thanks Girls.

I had a sleepless night last night about what approach to take with my ex.

Here's some filler for the blanks.

My wife and son are sharing with my wife's first child who is 22yrs and his girlfriend who is 20yrs. So, the four of them are living on Gov't benefits in a nice home in a nice suburb of Canberra. They are all happy together because they have (my) furniture, a car, and none of them are working (the girlfriend is at University though).

My concerns are;
1 - I don't want my son brought up in an environment of social welfare for the next 15yrs.
2 - My wife told me before she left that she never wanted to work again, and hasn't worked for 4 years now.
3 - i'm concerned if i go back under her terms, i will end up working to provide for them and still not have any of the things that matter to me - same as the situation before she left me basically.
4 - She has not admitted to me that she was the major cause of our relationship problems and to my knowledge, she has not yet had counselling.
5 - Three things about her and our future - How can i REALLY TRUST her again? How can i BELIEVE that she will stay COMMITTED? How do i know whether she will ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTE (in all aspects) to our relationship?

I know our contact isn't until tomorrow, but i have lots of conflicting emotions over this phone call.

My ex is not a nasty person as such, but she has become self centred and her only focus has been our Son since he was born. She has ignored me for most of that time and in the end, i was just there to provide for her and nothing else.



... and found the hard way that in an unequal relationship the more one partner (remember that word Partner) gives the more the other one takes. I found that as hard as I tried to please her it was never good enough and in the end I was constantly on edge thinking "what am I going to do wrong next", You can't live like that it eats away at you until you have no self esteem left.
I know exactly what you mean Jayne! This is what i've been going through for the past two years and it caused me to burn out. And after i burnt out, i became, angry, defensive, resentful - all the usual reactions as you would expect.


Christine

[emmicd]

Christine,

I never met you but I feel some sort of bond. I really feel for you and your wife and son!

I know it must be devastating to go through a trial separation period and on top of that losing your job! You must be strong at this time and really focus on your priorities. You must be strong and not fall victim to your emotions. At this point in time you can not succumb to your crossdressing desires or you could go into a down spiral and use the crossdressing as an escape to what you must face headon!

I hope you can try to talk with your wife and try to reconcile and have a heart to heart. Sounds like joint counseling may be in order as well. Please don't take offense to what I am saying. I'm just trying to offer advice that I think is proper and because I consider you a friend just by reading your posts!

I really wish you well and if you wish to pm me please feel free to do so.

I'm a good listener!

Emmi

[Clare]

Thanks again Emmi.

I have only just started to get my own life in order after 10 weeks of being alone and in distress.

After lots of therapy, i had put my wife out of my mind and been concentrating on my own mental and physical health which has suffered badly in recent times.

All of a sudden, she makes contact out of the blue and i've fallen off the cliff again! Its almost like i would have preferred i didn't hear from her until I had a job and car (to regain my independance so to speak) before discussing our future relationship options.

Oh, well, one more sleep before we communicate.

Christine

[laurab323]

Christine,

My heart goes out to you. My advice will be short and simple. Don't over-analyze. You are talking about what you think the phone call will be like. Take the call and then analyze it. I hear the fear of talking to your ex coming out more than anything else. It takes a lot of guts to take a phone call like that, but they're never as bad as they seem and you'll feel better about things afterwards.

Ok forget it, this won't be short! Reflect on the fact that you are trying to solve what is definately now a very complicated emotional situation. It takes time and effort to sort through all of the feelings, yours and hers. Be patient and kind and empathize with her as much as you can. Then you'll get to the bottom of the issues. There are enough emotions flying around, don't stir up more than you have to.

Thoughts and prayers dear......Laura

[Clare]

Good advice - thanks Laura


I hear the fear of talking to your ex coming out more than anything else.
Spot on - i do feel fear - is it the unknown?

I'm aiming to be passive during the call, just listen and then email back my responses in a structured way later on. For some reason, my spoken words are always taken out of context before i can explain my reasoning, so this appears to me to be the best way to respond.

Christine

[Olivia]

Good luck Christine! I hope everything turns out well for you. Olivia

btw: I used to live in Geelong,Vic., circa '66-67, forms 2 & 3. I loved it down there back then. Later, O

[Clare]

Geelong are going pretty good in the footy at the moment.

Christine

[foxylady]

Even tho you have come out to your wife she should not be taking it all out on you. You have rights too because you are a human being. People are different all over the world and we cannot expect everyone to be exactly the way they expected. She loved and married you because she liked and loved you for who you are. Yes, I think that keeping it closeted doesn't help as happened in my case, but she did love you and the most important thing is to work it out among yourselves especially for your son. He needs two loving parents and you two are it. You have a right to fifty - fifty in this marriage so I feel you two need to work it out for both of you, not just her way. You may want to give her a little slack, from the shock, but she needs to meet you 50=50 also,.
Foxylady

[liz lesbow]

When it comes to your marriage you just need to think about what your needs are and what your wife’s needs are. If you are open and not ashamed then it really comes down to do you both accept each other. If you do that there is noting to fear. If you do not then one of you has a lot of work ahead of them. Marriage is commitment of emotion and that takes a great deal of trust on each other. Each not to hurt the other and each to support each other. Yes Cding is a little different but the true test is in acceptance and dependence in each other. That bond is there or is not. Just give her the chance to understand and accept reality. If there is a true bond between you then you will both work it out irrespective of what appears to be on the surface at the moment. Love is acceptance dependence and commitment. It is a wonderful thing that cannot be reduced to a kiss or an act. The most wonderful thing about love is that it grows with time. The more time you have under your belt the better your chances of success. Be open, be honest do not be afraid to cry Let your feeling be on your shirt sleeve and you will always know who you are and you will never feel lost. Life is short live it your way.

[Lady Jayne]

Christine
May I suggest you take things one step at a time, Your not going to be able to sort anything out over the phone exept when and where your going to meet face to face.


I'm aiming to be passive during the call, just listen and then email back my responses in a structured way later on. For some reason, my spoken words are always taken out of context before i can explain my reasoning, so this appears to me to be the best way to respond.




That sounds like the best course of action, don't let her drag you into a long drawn out emotionaly charged discussion, Just arrange to meet and leave it at that.


My wife and son are sharing with my wife's first child who is 22yrs and his girlfriend who is 20yrs. So, the four of them are living on Gov't benefits in a nice home in a nice suburb of Canberra. They are all happy together because they have (my) furniture, a car, and none of them are working (the girlfriend is at University though).

My concerns are;
1 - I don't want my son brought up in an environment of social welfare for the next 15yrs.
2 - My wife told me before she left that she never wanted to work again, and hasn't worked for 4 years now.
3 - i'm concerned if i go back under her terms, i will end up working to provide for them and still not have any of the things that matter to me - same as the situation before she left me basically.
4 - She has not admitted to me that she was the major cause of our relationship problems and to my knowledge, she has not yet had counselling.
5 - Three things about her and our future - How can i REALLY TRUST her again? How can i BELIEVE that she will stay COMMITTED? How do i know whether she will ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTE (in all aspects) to our relationship?


I share your concerns, it's one thing to support your wife and child another thing entirly to be expected to support her adult son and his girlfriend.You have every right to expect to be more than a wage packet your feelings and needs are every bit as valid as hers and every partnership (theres that word again) is built on compromise.
As for trust it's an illusion you can never completly trust anyone because you can never know what the future holds all you can do is try to fulfill their needs and hope that they will do the same for you. don't get me wrong a good relationship is worth fighting for but only if both partners are prepeard to
put in the effort.
Please forgive me for persuming to advise you as only you can really know how you feel and what your prioritys are, It's just that I can feel your pain and I'm hoping that some of what I say may be helpfull to you in what is obvoiusly a very difficult time.

Best wishes Jayne xxxx

[Clare]

No need for apologies Jayne - i did ask for advice from all perspectives.

And your advice is relevant, so i've taken it under consideration.

I am now much calmer about our planned contact tomorrow as i've had all day to clear my head. I mainly know which approach i'll take, i'm certain of my 'starting position' in regard to what i will and won't accept, and otherwise i'm just interested in what she has to say now.

I am prepared for the 'its all over' answer, yet i am also prepared to make an effort to resurrect our relationship if compromise is evident.

I guess i'll know by this time tomorrow - wish me luck!

Christine

[emmicd]

Good Luck Christine!

Emmi

[norbie]

:) Dear Christine,
First off any working Relationship has to have TWO EQUAL Partners. If there is a talk of "condition" it will not work. Believe me I have seen in my 62 years on this Earth quite a few Partnerships go astray.
The only way I can see this would be a new start on both sides, which all obstacles like your CD or her Depression have to be solved before moving together again. And don't let you be black mailed with your son.
B.T.W. I would not sell your furniture jet - it looks like eye for eye.. a form of revenche. It wouldn't be helpful.
Stick to your aproach about listening on the Phone, maybe even write things down. And tell her YOU will contact her. And don't forget she got other adjults there behind the Phone. Also think about she maybe by now found out that she is 'the fifth weel' with the other young couple.
That could be the reason for so long time between her leaving and the Phone call.
Do what YOU think is right, I will pray for you tomorrow, think about it you got a lot things going for you - BE STRONG!
With great love and hugs from your country mate Norbie :thumbsup:

[Lady Jayne]

Good Luck!

*Hugs* Jayne xxx

[Dixie Darling]

Christine,

I have to agree with most of the respondents here concerning your wife's request. Attempting to reconcile your differences by agreeing to any and all of her terms without considering your own desires is nothing more than marital suicide. You stated that she hasn't admitted to you that she was the major cause of your marital problems, but had not begun to seek counseling to rectify those problems. You also stated that you were already in counceling, and had been for some time now. Marriage is a give and take agreement. One partner can't give all the time while the other one takes and visa versa.

I have a very dear Canadian sister with whom I've corresponded over the past several years on a frequent basis. When the question of divorce came up in one of the groups of which we are both members, she offered the following good advice:
----------------------
How would you answer the following questions:
1. How would you describe your relationship with your wife or husband? Is it fascinating? Interesting? Exciting? Or is it so-so? Boring? Tense?
2. When is the last time you took your wife or husband in your arms to give her/him a real big hug?
3. If you were your wife or husband, how would you like to live with someone like you? Do you have a bad temper?
4. When is the last time you had a blast (really FUN time) with your wife or husband?
5. How do you describe your life? Is it boring? Do you do the same things week after week? Or do you do something weird or kinky once a while to create some variations?

Then she continued.....

If you really love your spouse and you really want to keep her/him, let her/him see it. Do everything you can to get a last chance. And show that person that life with you can be much more exciting than it has been so far. There has to be something for BOTH in this. Try to get out of the house to do something you never did before. It doesn't have to be something expensive. Be creative.

I've heard it said by a lot of crossdressers who's wives DID divorce them that they could have learned to cope with the crossdressing - it was all the OTHER problems heaped on top of it that caused the divorce.

In essence, you should not have to agree to any or all of your wife's demands for a reconcilliation to take place. Likewise, she should not have to agree with all of yours.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[Clare]

Hey, i'll do this questionaire and see what the results are hey?



How would you describe your relationship with your wife or husband? Is it fascinating? Interesting? Exciting? Or is it so-so? Boring? Tense?

Boring mainly! Towards the end - Tense!


When is the last time you took your wife or husband in your arms to give her/him a real big hug?
Within the month prior to her leaving.


If you were your wife or husband, how would you like to live with someone like you? Do you have a bad temper?

Part A: Feel secure in the knoweldge that 'things' are taken care of.
Part B: Concerned about reasons for partners anger - also personal fear?


When is the last time you had a blast (really FUN time) with your wife or husband?

Enjoyable (rather than fun) - one week camping holiday to Canberra in 1998.


How do you describe your life? Is it boring? Do you do the same things week after week? Or do you do something weird or kinky once a while to create some variations?

Part A: Yes
Part B: Yes
Part C: Wanted to on many occassions in past - wife is a 'traditional type' and did not approve of 'radical' activities.

There you have it! Honesty can sometime reveal a hidden tradgedy?

Christine

[DonnaT]

How did your talk with your (ex) wife go Christine?

[Clare]

The wife ended up emailing me, stated that it was easier for her than a phone call.

It was a one page letter about how they were settled into a nice home, and things were going great for all of them. She did give me a post office box number for snailmail, but that was it otherwise.

Nothing about me or whether there was any chance of us meeting or arranging joint counselling in order to re-establish our relationship.

Yesterday i went to my therapist as i was very upset over the fact i have been left with nothing and my ex is having a great time! My therapist asked me some very direct questions about my wife - basically about whether my wife's attitude to a new relationship would be any different to the past. In all honesty, i don't thinks so and that's a primary cause of my own problems for the past year or so.

So after a restless sleep last night, i've decided there is no point chasing something i can't obtain - happiness! My wife was always coming up with reasons not to share activities with me as a couple. i've come to the realisation that i can find a new life out there and start over - and i mean start over with nothing, no job, no car, no home, no furntiure!

I will have to take out legal action to sell our joint possessions such as our home, and will probably lose access to Xavier (my 3yrs Son), as the mom's usually get custody via the courts, and that is what hurts me the most.

But i've been a lost soul now for eleven weeks and i have to get out of this depressed state. I have to get a job and rebuild my life, get in touch with old friends, and find a purpose in life. I am 42 now and i only have another 15 years of productive working life and i have a lot to achive in a short time if i want to have a decent retirement for myself.

It's a sad time, but as the old cliche goes 'one door closes, another opens'. I just hope this door leads to a life with better opportunities than what i've had for the last decade.

Christine

[Melissa Ryan]

Hi Christine, During my monotonous work day I often wonder how you are doing. You probably don't want to hear this but "time heals all wounds" You seem to have a very positive outlook and that in it self is wonderful! Before you write your life off within 15 years, You should take the time..from now to actually have a blast! Still thinking and hoping that every thing will be o.k. for you. Melissa.......

[Clare]

Hey Melissa,

Thanks, but you must have better things on your mind than me surely!

I'll try my best to be a good girl. In fact, letting Christine evolve as a person in the near future will help too i guess.

Christine

[Rachel_740]

Christine,

My advice is hard but I would suggest you steer well clear. If she wants a relationship on her terms that's not a relationship for you. Also, it is said about men that once they have been unfaithful once, they will do it again and again. I think the same is probably true of your ex here. She will be back for a while then, when it suits her, she'll be off again.

Sort yourself out for a single life for a while, have a divorce, pick up the peices and start a new life for yourself.

My opinion for what it's worth.

Anne

[Melissa Ryan]

No that is just what happens to all I guess, your mind wanders where ever it wants! And yes,christine can help you! Melissa has helped me through so much. You will win with life in the long run,dont doubt it!!!!!!!!! Melissa..........

[Clare]

Yes Anne, i understand your point. My therapist asked me the following questions:

• Can you trust her ever again in a relationship?
• How do you know that she will stay committed to a relationship?
• How can you rely on her to actively contribute to a relationship?

Very difficult to justify any answer to those questions as my opinions are clouded in emotional turmoil! But, if i'm true to myself, she has not demonstrated a willingness to adhere to any of the above principals.

So the unknown is the only certainty i have for now.

Christine