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View Full Version : Why are we in this little box? A constructive look at society and wearing a dress



sophieporter
07-08-2009, 07:53 AM
After seeing another thread on here, I decided to start this thread.

Right, here's the thing.
Some guys like to dress like girls.
That's it, really.
Some makup, dresses, underwear, whatever.
There's nothing to accept, no 'social norm' to consider, it's just there.
No 'taking it slowly', no 'I'll think about it', it's there, and if you can't handle it, for our sakes, let go of this whole 'but it's for girl's!' mentality.

Does anyone else get really irritated that we're forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, because some people can't, or couldn't deal with it?

I owe so much to those TG's and GG's that have supported me in secret for so long, but the fact of the matter is, they shouldn't have to. It shouldn't matter.

Why are we in this little box?

We're here, we're different, we may be queer, and damn it to hell, we aren't going away.

Love,

Sophie

Di
07-08-2009, 08:02 AM
Why are we in this little box?


You prob will not like my answer.:sad:

I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:

Sheila
07-08-2009, 08:13 AM
You prob will not like my answer.:sad:

I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:

Spot on Di ...... nobody and nothing stops me doing what I want, so long as it ain't illegal and I want to do it, then I will give it my best shot :)

sophieporter
07-08-2009, 08:22 AM
Spot on Di ...... nobody and nothing stops me doing what I want, so long as it ain't illegal and I want to do it, then I will give it my best shot :)

I thought I saw in your other post that you werre a GG, sweetpea?

Sheila
07-08-2009, 08:29 AM
I thought I saw in your other post that you werre a GG, sweetpea?

I am dear and so is DI ................ but that does not stop me doing what is classed as MALE things :D

sophieporter
07-08-2009, 08:37 AM
I am dear and so is DI ................ but that does not stop me doing what is classed as MALE things :D

but people dont point and laugh at you when you shop...

Sheila
07-08-2009, 08:41 AM
but people dont point and laugh at you when you shop...

don't they ????? u sure about that ? sometimes I get sniggers and called names ........... don't assume just cos we are GG's we don't get some of what you get hun :hugs:

Barbara918
07-08-2009, 08:50 AM
but people dont point and laugh at you when you shop...

They dont point & laugh when I shop for fem clothes. But maybe thats b/c I'm bigger than they are.

TGMarla
07-08-2009, 09:13 AM
I certainly can appreciate what both Di and Sheila are bringing to this conversation, but really, one cannot compare a woman's shopping experience to a man's when both are shopping for ladies' attire, especially when the man is, by societal norms, crossdressed. The box that Sophie is referring to is real, and I agree with her, I'm real sick of it.

Were I to walk into a store wearing one of my nice dresses, it would be about five or maybe six minutes (if that) before everyone in the store knew there was a man wearing a dress while shopping in the store. Even if I were shaved from head to toe, there are things about my physiology that I cannot change. My hands, for instance, are a dead givaway. I can shave them and put pretty nails on them, but I still wouldn't pass muster. My voice is also not very convincing.

If a woman were to do the same, some might comment on how she's dressed, but they ultimately would not spend a whole lot of time and effort on their critique, and they would go on about their business.

Now, in Di's and Sheila's defense, let's say I did go into that store wearing a nice dress, all shaved (hands too!) and with pretty nails on, etc.... It's likely that if I carried myself properly and with confidence and authority in myself, that others wouldn't spend more than a casual glance on me, maybe even an approving one at that. (Hey, I have some nice stuff! :D) But there's still the neighbors and my wife to consider, too. The fact is, the box that Sophie refers to is embedded in the minds of everybody we encounter, and that box is telling them that what they are seeing and experiencing is wrong. They do not accept it, and it changes their opinion towards the person they are seeing. If they see a woman wearing these clothes, they approve. If they see me wearing them, they disapprove, and do so wholeheartedly to the point that they never again see me in the same light. Thus, we hide it.

That's the part that gets so frustrating.

sandra-leigh
07-08-2009, 09:28 AM
Does anyone else get really irritated that we're forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, because some people can't, or couldn't deal with it?


Sophie, while not disagreeing with anything particular you have to say, I feel the need to point out that asking things like "Does anyone else get really irritated" is not a "constructive look" as promised by the title of your thread; it is at most a "critical look". For something to be "constructive", it has to point out avenues to solutions: it has to "construct" (build), not just point out problems.

Perhaps we should not be in a box (or a closet) but most of us are. In keeping with the "constructive" part of your title, what do you suggest as a way out of this difficulty?

decoratorpro
07-08-2009, 09:41 AM
Well personally, I think no one should hide who they are. I know it is easier said than done, but anyone who dresses differently should come out as who they are, to whoever. It is society who can't accept, it's not the loved ones. The reason they can't accept is because they have no knowledge about it. If there were more openess about it, people would get to know each of them, and therefore, think of it a normal thing. But then again what is normal.........anything we accept. Non-acceptance of anything we know nothing about is abnormal.

Donna(Denise)

flic
07-08-2009, 09:48 AM
Reading this post got me thinking a little. It seems to me that part of human nature is to categorize and sort. It's in everyday life all around, what type of music do you like? What sort of food do you like? What nationality are you? Some brainy psychologist type suggested that we define who we are, by identifying what we are not. This sorting process inevitably leaves an awful lot of stuff which we are not,,,but which others can quite happily identify with, and this vast overwhelming quantity of information can be sorted into 'boxes' for ease of use, identification or whatever. I'm sure most of us have that moment of 'oh my gosh, what am i?'. And then that eureka moment of finding some golden nugget of information to do with the tg community,,,and thinking 'yes, i can identify', and so you inevitably sort yourself into that box. So no,,,,some people will never understand, lack of understanding brings fear, blah blah. I'm upset that i hid for so long, but the only irritation is aimed at myself. People close to me thought they knew me and i hid it from them,,,and i shoulder responsibility. So although i'm loving the 'like it or not' sentiment,,,people are entitled to their fears and their misunderstandings and their confusion and whatnot.
So there you go, my rambling, inconclusive post,,,,because sadly, there may never be a conclusion to this one!
hugs
flic xxx

nancyish
07-08-2009, 09:49 AM
wow Donna! what a great saying.Nancy

PaulaJaneThomas
07-08-2009, 10:00 AM
What have dresses got to do with it? 99% of the time I present as female in public I'm in jeans. Clothes are just a means to an end. That end is gender presentation. That's what (some) react against. Having a moan on the forum isn't going to change that.

docrobbysherry
07-08-2009, 10:00 AM
FEAR!
We ALL have our own!:sad:

I think CDing is FUN! FEAR, is NOT FUN!:doh:

In my case, I'm protecting my family, including a young daughter, from redicule and rejection!

I READ the newspapers. I see all the BAD things that happen everyday. To regular people that HAVEN'T made themselves a Target!:Angry3:

And finally, I dress to please myself. If I went out, I'd have to try to BLEND IN! THAT, doesn't sound like FUN to me!:thumbsdn:

dawnmarrie1961
07-08-2009, 10:04 AM
This box that you are making reference to is not a not a construct of nature. It is was instead created by the hand of man. But, as with all things created by man, it is doesn't last forever.

It wasn't to long ago that woman didn't have the right to vote and blacks were treated as second hand citizens. But time and effort changed all that.

Problem is, today's mentality, we want everything "now"! Immediately!! Post haste!!!

Problem is, also today's mentality, we want it with the least amount of effort put into it! Quick Fix! No sweat!!

The reality, which no one wants, is that any change worth while and lasting takes a certain amount of time.

How much time depends solely on the individuals who are seeking to create change and how much effort they are willing to put into it. No effort , no change!!

It also requires presence. The willingness to stand up and be counted. Which means no more hiding in the closet.

So unless a vast majority of us are willing to step into the light, take a chance and be counted, the change that we want will never happen!

Are you content with sitting in your box and gripping about what you see as injustice or are willing to do something about it?

That is the question.

decoratorpro
07-08-2009, 10:06 AM
FEAR!
I think CDing is FUN! FEAR, is NOT FUN!

In my case, I'm protecting my family, including a young daughter, from redicule and rejection!

I understand that. That is what I enjoy about having a CD as a boyfriend. FUN, FUN, AND MORE FUN.

I wish I could make people understand there is no shame in Crossdressing, I crossdress every day. I wear mens pants, shoes, shirts. It really makes :Angry3: to no extent when people comment on things they have no idea what they are commenting about.

Donna

You hit the nail on the head there dawn.

Miranda09
07-08-2009, 01:33 PM
Well, that's the arguement I usually use when discussing cross dressing. Women CAN and DO dress in whatever clothing they like and no one says a word. A guy, on the other hand, dresses in clothes of the opposite gender, and all sorts of comments/riddicule/sterotypes come out. I would love to be secure enough to go out dressed and not worry about negative reactions. I realize this puts me in a self imposed box, but as Doc has mentioned, I want to have carefree fun when I go out and not have to be on my guard or be retricted to only those venues that accept us.

Jaclyn NM
07-08-2009, 01:59 PM
Let's face it, in many areas of life there are double standards, and this is just one of them. For girls to dress like guys is accepted, but for guys to dress like girls is not. Who knows why, but there it is.

Emma England
07-08-2009, 02:27 PM
Does anyone else get really irritated that we're forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, because some people can't, or couldn't deal with it?

We're here, we're different, we may be queer, and damn it to hell, we aren't going away.

Love,

Sophie

I have taken part of your post to answer.

Hiding in shadows from other people non-acceptance is something I am fed up with.

To deny your true self because of the discrimation of others is wrong.
It is upto me to decide on my own appearance, because that is me - understand this? (sounds confusing to me!)

Sure, it won't go away. That is another reason to be your true self.

If anyone says that a guy can't dress as a girl, I always ask why not.
Until someone comes up with a sensible answer, I will continue to do so.

sissystephanie
07-08-2009, 03:40 PM
Right, here's the thing. Some guys like to dress like girls. That's it, really. Some makup, dresses, underwear, whatever.

Does anyone else get really irritated that we're forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, because some people can't, or couldn't deal with it?

I owe so much to those TG's and GG's that have supported me in secret for so long, but the fact of the matter is, they shouldn't have to. It shouldn't matter.

Why are we in this little box? We're here, we're different, we may be queer, and damn it to hell, we aren't going away. Love, Sophie

Sophie, as has already been said, your title is not accurate. Your original post, which I have shortened, is not at all constructive! It is not, because you have put yourself in a box! That is not meant to be insulting, it is just a statement of my opinion. Your own attitude is all that counts, not what somebody else thinks of you! Climb out of your box and show the world the real Sophie!!

I am a male, definitely, and yes I do wear feminine clothes a great deal of the time. In fact I am totally dressed feminine as I write this. No wig and no makeup, which is my normal look. I may be different, but I sure as H*** am not Queer, and I am not going away. Well, yes I am going somewhere, to the nail salon for my biweekly manicure and pedicure! I go everywhere I feel like going dressed as a female. Do people look at me? What the heck do I care! I know who I am, and what I am. I am a crossdresser, and if those looking at me don't like that............well that is their problem, not mine!

As I said, I go everywhere dressed, as does Intertwined! Both of us, I believe, have the same attitude. We don't care!!

Be yourself, be happy, and go for it!!

:hugs::hugs:

Sandra
07-08-2009, 03:52 PM
You prob will not like my answer.:sad:

I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:


Well said Di

If people got out more then just perhaps that box would open up.

Elle1946
07-08-2009, 03:57 PM
We are in this litttle box because others have placed us there. Getting out of the box is hard because of not being understood. We are men and are expected to act like men. WHY? Whos to say say that we aren't men just because we like cloths that were designed for the other sex. The Romans wore skirts and the early American politicians wore wigs. Who set the standard for what we are suppose to wear now. I remember when girls wore skirts and very seldom wore pants but now they are seldom found in skirts. Yes! This is my little soap BOX.

PaulaJaneThomas
07-08-2009, 04:09 PM
Well said Di

If people got out more then just perhaps that box would open up.

For some of us, it did just that many years ago. I've been going out and about in broad daylight since the mid-eighties and in those days my attempts at make-up were more like Co-co The Clown than Co-co Chanel. But nothing bad ever happened. A 7 ton weight isn't suddenly going to descend on you as soon as you leave the house.

sandra-leigh
07-08-2009, 04:41 PM
Non-acceptance of anything we know nothing about is abnormal.


While I understand the sentiment, there was a recent Scientific American article (I think it was, might have been a respectable science journal article I was reading) that briefly explored that fear of that which is different is an evolved survival characteristic.

When our distant ancestors (and not so distant for those of us whose families migrated to The New World in the last few hundred years) stuck with the tried and true, then provided their diet was wide enough to provide proper nutrition, they survived. When those ancestors tried new things, the result was either neutral, or good -- or pain and/or death. Until the advent of the scientific method to test for -known- poisons, it was a crap-shoot as to what you would get when you tried something new. And by the law of averages, if you try new things often enough and there are bad things around, you are going to find that Russian Roulette bullet. So by natural evolutionary processes, acceptance of the new until it is proven bad was bred out of us: what remained was conservatism (stay the same) together with slow change as a portion of the population risked their lives trying new things.

Stephanie32
07-08-2009, 04:57 PM
I have had long thoughtful, logical conversations with loved ones about my CDing, and they all result in frustration. I have concluded that the biggest obstacle to achieving acceptance is the likes of Perez Hilton, scenes of DQ's barging into churches interrupting services and starting to make out. Or individuals who cringe at hearing the very word "republican" yet are quick to scream bigot at somebody's face, or vandalize vehicles with "yes on 8" stickers. Many people find this bizarre behavior upsetting and reminiscent of a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. This is the first image that comes to mind when thinking about gays and the transgendered. It is negative. Personally I find much of this conduct embarrassing, and makes it impossible to achieve acceptance. How can you expect respect from a society when you refuse to accept their societal norms.

PaulaJaneThomas
07-08-2009, 05:21 PM
I have had long thoughtful, logical conversations with loved ones about my CDing, and they all result in frustration. I have concluded that the biggest obstacle to achieving acceptance is the likes of Perez Hilton, scenes of DQ's barging into churches interrupting services and starting to make out. Or individuals who cringe at hearing the very word "republican" yet are quick to scream bigot at somebody's face, or vandalize vehicles with "yes on 8" stickers. Many people find this bizarre behavior upsetting and reminiscent of a child throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way. This is the first image that comes to mind when thinking about gays and the transgendered. It is negative. Personally I find much of this conduct embarrassing, and makes it impossible to achieve acceptance. How can you expect respect from a society when you refuse to accept their societal norms.

Hopefully such people aren't truly representative of your society. I've found that people who react badly to LGBT folk have things about themselves which they can't accept. Or probably to be fairer, they've not been able to escape the cradle-to-birth brainwashing about what is right and wrong.

TGMarla
07-08-2009, 05:48 PM
The Romans wore skirts and the early American politicians wore wigs.
Neither wore boobs, though.

sissystephanie
07-08-2009, 06:10 PM
Personally I find much of this conduct embarrassing, and makes it impossible to achieve acceptance. How can you expect respect from a society when you refuse to accept their societal norms.

Who are you trying to acheive acceptance from? You first have to accept who you are youreslf! If you are a CD, accept that as a "given!" Then you are the one setting the so called "societal norms." Because what may be normal for you is not necessarily normal for someone else, but who cares? You are an individual, and we all are different, thank God!

The "box" mentioned in this thread is only a figment of imagination, in the mind of the person who thinks they are in one!

ATTITUDE is the answer!! Develope one!!

charlie
07-08-2009, 06:33 PM
The box that we are in for the most part is self induced. When I do go out 98% of the people that make me just snicker, could care less and look away, or get wide eyes. One percent tells the partner they are with to look at the guy in the dress and follow you around. The other one percent so far gets vocal...."hey look at the drag queen" or worse. Perhaps I have been lucky enough to not encounter any violent people and their penchant to get into fights. That could make me cry! Bottom line...I'm glad for the most part that I am getting out and it is worth the bad part of being chided occasionally.

Jessica Who
07-09-2009, 12:39 AM
Yes, I definitely get frustrated.... I think of how many people in society who would ordinarily treat me with courtesy and how that would change if I were in drag.

I feel sad that I have not been able to share this side of me with everyone I know as I feel that it is an important aspect of my life.

Why are we in this box? The quick answer is that society ostracizes anything that is not mainstream.

Stephanie32
07-09-2009, 12:50 AM
Hopefully such people aren't truly representative of your society. I've found that people who react badly to LGBT folk have things about themselves which they can't accept. Or probably to be fairer, they've not been able to escape the cradle-to-birth brainwashing about what is right and wrong.

So let me get this straight. You believe that calling people "brainwashed" will cause them to accept you? Generally when I am trying to change minds and perspectives. I try to empathize with those individuals, and not insult them.

PaulaJaneThomas
07-09-2009, 01:51 AM
So let me get this straight. You believe that calling people "brainwashed" will cause them to accept you? Generally when I am trying to change minds and perspectives. I try to empathize with those individuals, and not insult them.

Did I suggest you called them brainwashed to their faces?

Bev06 GG
07-09-2009, 01:57 AM
Well, that's the arguement I usually use when discussing cross dressing. Women CAN and DO dress in whatever clothing they like and no one says a word. A guy, on the other hand, dresses in clothes of the opposite gender, and all sorts of comments/riddicule/sterotypes come out. I would love to be secure enough to go out dressed and not worry about negative reactions. I realize this puts me in a self imposed box, but as Doc has mentioned, I want to have carefree fun when I go out and not have to be on my guard or be retricted to only those venues that accept us.

Those women who attempt to look like the opposite Gender do get ridiculed. Women who just dress in what is traditionally male attire do not go the extra mile and try to pass as a guy. I like to wear trousers and sweat shirts but I dont pad myself out to look like a guy.
I appreciate what everyone is saying but having a moan on a forum like this where everyone is going to agree wont do any good whatsoever. Why dont you post your views on a site where you can re educate people who know nothing or very little about CDing.
Take care
Bev

Carin
07-09-2009, 02:21 AM
You feel trapped in the box. You go to the front door and try to open it but you can't. Why not? Is it an army at the other side holding the door closed? Or is it an army of voices in your head that are telling you what might happen if you do open that door?

It was more embarassing for me to behave like I was doing something wrong (hiding, changing clothes in wierd places, etc.), than it was to go out wearing a skirt. So I opened that door. The sun was shining outside. No army holding the door closed. Just the voices in my head.

The box is not locked folks.


We are in this litttle box because others have placed us there. Getting out of the box is hard because of not being understood.


...Why are we in this box? The quick answer is that society ostracizes anything that is not mainstream.



Does anyone else get really irritated that we're forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, because some people can't, or couldn't deal with it?

Satrana
07-09-2009, 03:29 AM
Society is not fair. There are many boxes that trap many segments of the population. None of it makes sense. The solution is to find workarounds which allow you to lead a happy fulfilling life without surrendering your freedom to the prejudices of others.

I do agree that we should not glorify those who do accept us, they are just being normal accepting human beings. The fact that many others do not behave in this manner illustrates how prejudiced our society is even if the extent has been swept under the carpet by political correctness.



I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:

Tell that to TGs who would lose their jobs, family and friends if they came out. The box is very real and was imposed by society. TGs do not choose to enter the closet, it is a survival tactic, not a personal choice. However we can choose to leave the box if we are prepared to face the consequences. For some the consequences may be minor, for others it can be severe.

noname
07-09-2009, 04:31 AM
Tell that to TGs who would lose their jobs, family and friends if they came out. The box is very real and was imposed by society.

So true. Especially the job part. You don't even have to be TG to lose your job, just display anything considered feminine. Try wearing mascara to work. In many cases, that's a firing.

battybattybats
07-09-2009, 10:02 AM
You prob will not like my answer.:sad:

I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:

When in much of the world there was TG acceptance 2-3 hundred years ago, where some few small countries, mostly Polynesian islands, are still TG accepting then where did the closet come from and why on earth would we have wanted to climb in ourselves?

Nah, you can't blame us for the box. It was built before we were born by murderous laws that destroyed TG culture. A kind of genocide that drove past TGs into the closet to survive.

And even though in the last 40 years in many (not all!) countries they stopped executing, torturing, lobotomizing and jailing CDs we all grew up in a society where positive images of TG-ness was absent from our lives and with strong gender-based social pressures against male effeminacy in any form.

That's what forces us into the closet, we are taught by this void where once-vibrant culture stood, by the mocking laughter in the frequent negative depictions and peoples trans phobic comments in response to them and by the ordinary peer pressures of male childhood to hide this part of ourselves.

And if I'm wrong then where did the closet come from in the first place?

Marisa_M
07-09-2009, 01:23 PM
I think it is in most cases it's a self-imposed box.:sad::hugs:

I'm sure of that!
Some people are much more accepting and understanding that we can imagine. GGs in special.:hugs::hugs:

Lorileah
07-09-2009, 01:42 PM
So has anyone come out with a way to get out of this "Box"?

I don't get pointed at or laughed at when I shop. Only once did I have a confrontation and I pretty much scared her away. I haven't mowed the lawn in a skirt...yet. But you don't see a lot of women doing that either. But I wear what I want around the house.

The only way this "box" will go away is for the TG community to quit thinking we are wrong. As long as we consider it a dirty secret that box remains sealed. When we accept ourselves more than the box gets thinner and soon we can break it open.

One comment was the that the Romans and early politicians wore skirts and wigs and then it was pointed out that they didn't wear boobs. That once again restricted who or what we are. I don't wear falsies when I dress on a routine basis. I am sure a large segment of the F-M's don't pack on a daily basis.

Education is the key here. This community is huge and vast. One box cannot hold us. If we work on getting acceptance then the stigma will fade. It does not help when how we are represented to the world is as freaks and clowns and ax murderers. Other groups fought to rid themselves of the stereotypes. Not that all is kosher (sorry) in their world yet but you don't see the exaggerated caricature on mainstream media anymore. (Who does housework in a dress, heels and pearls?) You don't have to be militant or "in your face" to do this. The Animal Liberation Front is militant and really no one takes them seriously. The ASPCA and similar work with society and things change. Quiet revolution often works best. And it starts with us not putting our own restrictions on ourselves

MJ
07-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Sophie,

I have been full time for 5 years and i can tell you i don't see any of your post in real life.

you clearly are not out in the real world so don't preach what you don't know.

get out there and see for yourself sis.

just get dressed open your door and explore the world outside your box

Lainie
07-09-2009, 02:14 PM
Were I to walk into a store wearing one of my nice dresses, it would be about five or maybe six minutes (if that) before everyone in the store knew there was a man wearing a dress while shopping in the store.

I always shop as a man in a dress--big moustache, no make-up. Used to shop in drab, but not any more. Everyone knows immediately. Some smile, some just take it in stride.

But I still avoid meeting people I know in 'real life', because my wife doesn't like it, and I'm afraid that it would permanently alter my relationships in ways I wouldn't like.

MWCMDarlene
07-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Th box I am in is about half self-imposed. I am in the box bcause of family, friends, and the fear of being fired from my job if I ever got out of my box. The other half of my box is societal-imposed. The society and area of the country I live in simply is unacceptable of a man showing up at the Wal-Mart or hardware store sporting a dress, heels, hose, bra, boobs, wig (or no wig), and a mustache.

If I were to come completely out of my box, I would be living in a refridgerator box under some bridge because I would definitely lose my job and my wife would kick me out of the house, and we would lose the house if I lost my job.

And, if I went to Wal-Mart or the hardware store dressed as above, someone would see to it that I was put in a pine box and buried six feet under.

So, you tell me, if I am going to live in and be put into a box, which one I would much rather live in.

Di
07-09-2009, 08:09 PM
Tell that to TGs who would lose their jobs, family and friends if they came out. The box is very real and was imposed by society. TGs do not choose to enter the closet, it is a survival tactic, not a personal choice. However we can choose to leave the box if we are prepared to face the consequences. For some the consequences may be minor, for others it can be severe.

I understand....TRUST me I do.....and would NEVER EVER tell someone to come out at work and friends ect....everyone has the choice
everyones life is different. I was just saying it was ( right or wrong) it is a self imposed box.
And saying in my opinion that this comment
being forced to pretend, hide, and and make do being ourselves in shadow, that was their choice.
It isn't a bad or good choice, but their choice. and what they feel they need to do.

love heels
07-09-2009, 08:18 PM
If it's a man's world why do women get the fredom to wear what they wan't and men don't ?

I think women invented that phrase to make us think we are the dominant sex ?

And if men are the dominant sex why do so many of us try to be women ?

If you ask me it's a womans world and i want to be i on it!:)

crazybiker
07-09-2009, 08:47 PM
I dont have a lot to say on this. Many good arguments and ideas, ect... but something I thought on this topic the other night from reading posts on people comming out to friends and being accepted, but worried about going out to the world....

I see it as.. many of our friends are accepting, but the world doesn't accept it... but if that random person had a friend, may not accept it, but be cool with it... I think somewhere somehow we're all accepting of it (even those of us who dont cd, ect) but wont want to admit it to the rest of the world because inside each of us we belive that its not a social norm, but it seems to be more common now that I know about it, than before I didn't.

Kimberly Marie Kelly
07-09-2009, 09:10 PM
But I have found that as I reveal myself to family and friends, and have found acceptance from them, that this box I've been in for so long is being ripped apart. I cannot tell you what that has done for me to have the acceptance of my family and friends and now people at work. I've started to tell co-workers that I am close with about my true Gender and my transition.

I cannot say how much happier I am, it's a wonderful feeling..Rip apart your box. Kimberly :battingeyelashes:

Satrana
07-10-2009, 04:15 AM
I was just saying it was ( right or wrong) it is a self imposed box.


I disagree. That is like saying a woman choose to be raped because she choose to walk down a dark street alone late at night. No matter how you want to question her action, she is still the victim just as TGs are.

I say there is no choice when the fear is overwhelming. It does not matter to what degree the fear is justified or not, after all only some TGs would lose their jobs, their homes, their family etc. The fact that the fear is a real possibility means the choice is taken away.

This is especially true for children which is when most TGs first recognize their difference. Children do not know they have a choice. Many parents would ensure there was no choice. Schools ensure there is no choice. Most work places ensure there is no choice.

The box is not self imposed, but we do have the choice whether we wish to remain locked inside it or dismantle it piece by piece and find workaround solutions to bypass the prejudice we face.