Crossdressing noob... help?

[Thomas]

So I'm really new to this whole transgender thing. I've known about my gender identification issues for a while, but kept it secret except from my closest friends. Up until now my only release about my desire to be male is my online world, in which I have been portraying myself as male for two years. But now the craving to be male is getting to be too much.. I've been close to tears over this damn thing... and I've decided to take a small step to try and release my inner male a bit. I've never crossdressed before.. and I want to know how to do it convincingly. The main thing that has stopped me from trying is my fear of still looking too girly. I'm hoping to get my hair cut short soon.. and I really would appreciate some tips and help with the entire crossdressing subject. Any advice will be a huge help

1) what type of haircut would make me look most like a guy? (i was thinking an emo-style haircut with fringe to help hide my face) How do I go about getting the hair salon to cut my hair the way I want? What hair style would look best on me? (i'll post links to my pics at the bottom for refference)

2) How can I hide my feminine features? Besides binding (which i intend to do, using ace bandages) Any tips to make myself look, sound, or appear more masculine?

3) What about clothes? I don't even know how to shop for myself as a female, let alone as a male. What styles of dress will be most helpful in keeping myself looking masculine? My style is mainly punk/goth and I would like to transfer that over to my male clothing, if possible. Tips or suggestions?

4) How do I deal with friends who are begging me to stay looking the way I currently do because I'm supposibly 'pretty"? How do I go about telling my mother about my craving to be male without her being really confused and think i'm going through a phaze?

5) Do you think that I could actually pass as a male? Or would I just look like a girl with guy clothes and hair? (see pic refferences please)

thanks in advance for your help and support. This entire thing is way confusing and scarry and nervous all in one. Any tips or advice at all is greatly appreciated. thanks again <3


Me: http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/vfme1.jpg
http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/vfme2.jpg
http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/b7514b09b1e3.jpg

P.S. I must say that reading through these forums has been seriously a breath of fresh air. I don't know anyone here who can relate to my issues and its so nice to be able to relate to people's struggles... thanks for that.

[Andy66]

Hi! I'm no expert, but I can tell you what I've seen from friends.

Don't expect it to happen all at once. Any convincing, lasting change is a process of daring to try one new thing at a time.

Hats often help.

Good luck. Be who you want to be. :)

[brylram]

You use the word 'crossdressing', but from what you've said it sounds more like you're actually an ftm. If that's the case, then you already are male, and don't listen to anyone who says anything different. With that said, I'll try to answer each of your questions.

1) A lot of guys go with a very short, very traditionaly male type of hair style when they first start to transition... but in my opinion, even in a bio-male a super-short haircut can emphasize it if they have a feminine face. The best strategy might be to go to a salon, rather than a barber (I'm not sure barbers are great with emo cuts..?) and tell them that you need to play an emo guy in a series of plays (say a series because they might take it more seriously than a single show night), and that it's important that you be as convincing as possible because you take your role very seriously. They might not care about helping, or they might know why you're really asking, but they just might respect your 'dedication' and try to help you out.

2) I'm not sure how much you've got to hide, but regardless of how much it is, I would HIGHLY reccomend that you not use ace bandages. If you're ftm rather than just interested in crossdressing then it would be very worth it to work on acquiring a binder made specifically for that purpose. If you're comfortable with talking to people in person about it, then try to find a support group for transpeople in your area where you might get a used binder that someone doesn't need any more.

3) I'm not sure how to dress punk or goth, but I'm pretty sure there can be a tendency for the clothes to be fairly slim? That might be a problem if you're very curvy, but even so I'm sure it can be worked around. One idea might be to try finding a forum where guys into those styles discuss what's cool to them. I've seen those kinds of sites for other kinds of styles before, so I'm sure you could dig one up, although you might have more luck with emo. Ultimately though, you're really going to have to just try things on and see what works... even if shopping is something you hate, it'd be well worth your time and effort to go around to stores which carry clothes that you're interested in, and try the hell out of them.

4) Tell them how you feel, that it's not new, and that they can pretend they're friends with a girl all they want but that it won't be true. Be firm but not not rude, and be prepared to understand their confusion. My personal approach to telling my parents, was to carefully write a letter explaining everything, give them space to read it, but be nearby to answer any questions when they were ready to ask. Neither of my parents were surprised, but judging from your pictures I'm guessing it's a safe bet that your mother WILL be confused, and most likely WILL think it's a phase. That's not fun, but it's also pretty much inescapable, and not necessarily the end of the world. Be prepared, also, for your mother to be opposed to it from a feminist stand-point if she misinterprets your desire to transition as hating women, or thinking that men have it better.

Most importantly, don't take any shit. There's a difference between unavoidable confusion and emotional upset, and being an ignorant asshole... if you make sure to always step back and think before reacting, it should be fairly easy to figure out which people are doing which. And finally, the bit you'll probably hate to hear, but that you absolutely need to hear, and to start coming to terms with as soon as you read this... you may very well lose every friend you currently have, and it may end very negatively. New friends can be made, but you will always be you, and you will never be able to escape that. Don't choose your friends over yourself, and don't try to 'take the easy way' by ignoring who you are, because it will never change, and it will always be harder that way.

5) There's no way to tell how you will look until you try, but it's almost definite that you will look much younger than you are, cause that's just how it always goes. It's also hard to tell just how masculine your face could look if you had a radically different haircut... looking at your photos I'm having a hard time deciphering how much of a 'female' message I'm getting is from your facial structure, or just simply because that is definitely a girl's haircut. Regardless of how well you can get your identity across with just a hair and wardrobe change though, keep in mind that for a significant number of transmen it takes T to finally be seen as the guys they already are.

I think that's all the info I have in me for now... hope it's usefull, and I'm sure that other guys will be able to give you different advice, and have different ideas than I do.

[Ze]

Thomas...are you me? :eek::heehee:

I swear, when I first came into the transmen section, I made a thread almost exactly like this one, numbered questions and all!

1. I like brylram's answer here. I never thought of that! My only alternative suggestion is to first research online which haircut places in your area are considered LGBT-friendly, then e-mail them to confirm that, yes, transpeople are welcome there. Try a search engine such as this (http://www.gayfriendlybiz.com/search-1.php?location=3&pkey=din&submit=Search).

2. DO NOT USE ACE BANDAGES! You can crack a rib, puncture a lung...I'm not kidding! You'll want to go with a binder vest; they're made specifically for this kind of thing and are much safer. I was going to refer you to a binder thread we have, but unfortunately I think it's in the Boys' Clubhouse. Get to ten posts, read this little bit here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pf#faq_boys_clubhouse), apply, and me or one of the other mods can grant you access in! :) For your other question on how to appear more masculine, once again, you'll get much more information in the private section.

3. I've been labeled punk/goth/emo in my clothes sometimes, too. The beauty of this is that type of clothing is fairly androgynous. My advice to stick with what you feel comfortable with and you think looks good/cool/whatever, then branch off into what you'd consider to be more passable. (But you may already be there and not know it!)

4. Hehe...yeah...been there, done that; actually, still there. Although I don't believe them, many people have considered me "pretty" and my mom's currently having a big issue both with me "losing" that so-called "attractiveness," and headstrong in believing that it's a phase. I can't give you a lot of help for the moment since I have yet to resolve it myself, but hang in there nonetheless! :hugs: You may want to check my own story here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110576) to see what sort of advice others had given me. Mainly, try to be patient, answer her questions as much and as possible, and as difficult as it may be, try to also see it from her point of view and act accordingly. In the end, time can make the difference in acceptance.

5. Yes, you could definitely pass as a boy. Like most of us here, you'll probably end up looking much younger than you are, but whatever, right? :D Zenny-boy (ZenFrost) was the first person here to tell me that it's not so much how you look, but rather how confident you are in it. Everything else seems to follow after that. People don't specifically have a radar out for transpeople or CDers; they'll just automatically assume you're genetically male because, hey, you seem to think you are! And who would know better than you? ;)

So I've probably ended up not being much help. But when you've hit ten posts, I encourage you to apply for membership in the Boys' Clubhouse! There'll be even more information and fun for you. ;) Also, you seem pretty young. If you're between 18 and 25, I suggest also applying for the Young Members section once you have 10 posts. It's one of my favorite sections!

[brylram]

My only alternative suggestion is to first research online which haircut places in your area are considered LGBT-friendly, then e-mail them to confirm that, yes, transpeople are welcome there.

You can try that... but unfortunately a lot of transmen have been given female haircuts when they try that. Something you'll learn eventually, is that being gay doesn't make someone understand or accept transpeople, and a lot of lesbians see transmen as women, even once they have beards. To be honest, you've probably got as much chance of getting a satisfying male haircut no matter where you go until you're on T.

Most styles that are fairly androgynous still have a noticeable difference between male and female, and if you continue to wear female clothes and just switch in bits of male stuff then it'll be noticed by your peers. Hot Topic supposedly makes some good stuff, but imo there are a lot of independent designers making better stuff that more hits the mark for anyone who's actually a member of a subculture... hunt around on google and you'll find some. Make sure to check out the male sections only and you'll find some very interesting stuff that'll most likely get the right message across.

[Thornton]

Well, Hello Tom! (handshake) Welcome to the forum. Trust me, you came to the right place. I was new here a couple months ago, and I got hooked quickly. I learned a lot and got a lot of support...it's a very good place to be...

Anyway, let's get to your issues...

1) I...really can't help you too much with the hair problem. I'm Haitian (Haiti's south of Cuba), which means I have no idea how white guys' hair works or what would work for you. I'm sorry.

2) You will hear this a lot from us: NEVER USE ACE BANDAGES, EVER. For tips on what to use, go here http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110895
As for other passing necessities, as in mannerisms, make sure you know what you're doing with you're hands. Guys and girls use their hands differently. To see what I mean, just go to a mall and people watch for a while. We had a discussion here about whether a fist is the more masculine hand gesture. I personally think it is, but you don't have to follow anything I say.
Also try not to walk or sit like a girl. In the way you hold your shoulders, act like you've never worn a purse in your life (maybe you haven't, I don't know).
Obviously, the makeup's gonna have to go.
Try men's deodorant/body washes.
Even though nothing really grows there anyway, try shaving your face regularly. The logic behind this is that the fine hair there will grow back slightly thicker and cause your face to look/feel slightly rougher. And if anything, you'll look clean shaven, cause you will be:D.
In the way you speak, keep your voice low, just above sounding false. Also, keep your voice calm. Getting over excited with your voice will cause it to go high, and that's not at all what you want. Keeping it calm aso makes it easier to manage. Speak boldly. Speak from the gut, not from the throat.
Be more aggressive than passive. You are wearing the pants now, so to speak, so act like it, without being a douchebag. Like Ze said, be confident in your gender. Don't look to people to confirm your gender for you. Don't give them the option.
Also, get in the habit of holding doors open for girls....
yeah, that's all I can think of at the moment.

3) Shopping for male clothes I've found is a lot easier, simply because the pants sizing makes sense. Measure around your waist in inches. Then, measure from your waist to your heel in inches. This is your pants size. Pretty simple, huh? For example, I have a 34" waist, 32" leg. All my pants say 34x32.
T-shirts are unisex. Looking at your pics, I you won't need to go beyond a Medium. I'd say you're a small. I've found polos tend to run a size smaller than t-shirts. For dress shirts, don't go above a 15-15.5. As I recall, guy's shoe size numbers run a size smaller than girls, for example, a men's 9 is a women's 10, but it's been such a long time, I don't remember well.
It's always nice to know how to tie a tie.
How do you feel about men's underwear?
As for style, try to avoid tight pants. Regular or loose fit is safer. Since t-shirts are unisex, any men's shirt that isn't a t-shirt is seen as more masculine.

4) Your friends are not you. Your friends are not living your life. For you to be happy with what you see in the mirror is more important than their opinions. Tell them you need to do this for you and if they're your real friends, they'll accept this eventually. As for your mom...geez, there really is no way out of that one. Sorry. She will doubt you, no matter what you do. Just don't back down. Ze posted hys coming out story. I personally think it's about as positive as you can hope to get. For a downer, you can read mine: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108817

5) Do I think you can pass as male? Honestly, I think it is going to be really, really hard. I mean, going by your pictures, you do Fem pretty damn well. You're not trying to go from butch to male or even tomboy to male. You're trying to get to male from the complete opposite end of the spectrum. With work, yeah, you can pass as male, but get used to being seen as 14-16 again for a while.

[Ze]

You can try that... but unfortunately a lot of transmen have been given female haircuts when they try that. Something you'll learn eventually, is that being gay doesn't make someone understand or accept transpeople, and a lot of lesbians see transmen as women, even once they have beards.

You're dead on about that; I guess I didn't express that well enough in my post. :D (That was my point of actually "checking up" on a supposedly LGBT-friendly place before going in.)

I guess I'm also talking from lucky experience. The blatantly gay hairstyler I went to seemed to really get what I was going for, but I don't doubt that he's a diamond in the rough.

For the clothes, I didn't mean there were no male/female differences to those styles, but rather it's more "acceptable" for genders to switch it up. A lot of the boys wear women's style skinny leg jeans (like myself), while some of the girls wear really baggy men's pants, etc. I feel it's the best way for somebody new to ease into the public sphere, especially if they're already into the style(s).


1) I...really can't help you too much with the hair problem. I'm Haitian (Haiti's south of Cuba), which means I have no idea how white guys' hair works or what would work for you. I'm sorry.

Now see, I didn't know that about you, lil' bro! Maybe if you'd post a picture every once in a while...:D

[Thomas]

*takes a deep breath* okay lots to reply to. And honestly I couldn't be happier about it xD

so yeah about the terminology... crossdressing vs FTM vs transgender vs whatever... I'll admit I have no idea what I'm talking about. Tried researching it via google, but it all just confused me really. So I don't know what I am, I just know how I feel =P

going to the salon about a play is a really good idea actually, and I'm excited to try it. I was a bit apprehensive about what kindof reactions I might get.

okay. no ace bandages. check. I'm so glad someone told me. Aquiring special-made compressing items is going to be a bit difficult until I break it to my mother about this whole thing. I don't even know what I'm going to say yet.

Thank you for pointing out about the body language thing. It really is something I need to make a note to work on. But no worries about the purse, ive used them but hardly ever. Gothic pants have lots of pockets =D

speaking of gothic... now that I think about it it probably won't be much of a problem. The whole shopping thing just has me worried, thats all. Maybe I'll force some friends to come allong. But thank you for the sizing tips. Hadn't thought of that. Luckilly I already know my shoe size thanks to my chucks. And ties? Its actually really funny that you mention that because I'm wearing one right now. I have more ties than my brother. hehe.

Mens underwear? *shrugs* I've kinda always wanted to wear boxers.

I am 18, just so you know. Looking younger... eh well I've always looked a bit younger anyway. I need to do some posting to get up to 10 already... silly rule

makeup: my friend did my makeup in that picture. I don't know how the hell to do it correctly anyway, loosing it is not a problem haha

I think what I'm going to do.. is I have a friend who was wanting to dress up as guys for an anime convention. I'll use that as an excuse to explain all the crazy changes to my mother, and then break the news to her after. That way maybe it won't be such a huge suprise. Not only that... theres a chance that If I tell her before hand that it will be more difficult to attain the items/haircut/clothes that I need. My mom already knows I like women, and she took that confession pretty well, so hopefully she'll be more accepting.

Thanks so much for all of your help. I posted similar questions on other sites and didn't get nearly as much suggestions. I definately came to the right place. This has cheered me up so much. Thank you!!!

[\/incent]

Probly not too much help here, but the second picture reminded me alot of Bill Kaulitz from Tokyo Hotel XD ( for those not in the know of Bill: http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/LoveTomKaulitz/bill_kaulitz--large-msg-11929022998.jpg )

Bills a very pretty boy, even when he does the massivly poofed/spiked thing with his hair. XD

Anyways, being fairly new here as well, welcome to the forums you can get SO much info and support from everyone here.

So I guess my only advice is really...

Haircut: Go with something that suits your face and male 'feel' you want to portray. Each style has its own pros and cons just as with female haircuts. If you have it long now and worry about going short, maybe get a mid length cut first and see how it goes before say trading in for a buz cut. If in doubt, buy a wig to see how you look and feel in a short short 'do. There are lots available out there even short 'boy' styles.

Again to beat the dead horse ace bandageds no, proper binders yes :) They have ones for tops as well as lower body binders from what Ive seen to give less curve to your body and help make it look a bit square/flatter.

I'll likely get smacked butttt... If you are in the USA Hot Topic might be a good place to look. Every time I've gone I've been able to get soem great 'every day' stuff at good prices. Tshirts, pants, hoodies, etc etc. Hit the sales rack too >.>... Im a sales junky and you can find some fantastic deals on stuff there. Other than that, depending on where you are bum around head shops and even possibly a Walmart if you can. I get alot of basic guy stuff from the evil that is walmart but hey, its good quality and good prices so it helps if your budget is limited.

As for passing hey well that takes time really. I dont think I pass at all and Im going for the whole androgynous goth boy look most days, but my friends tell me otherwise and I'm sure your's will too. Plus when it comes down to it, its more about how YOU feel about yourself and what makes you feel happy and whole right? So start slow and work towards things you want and soon you'll find a look for you thats right for you to be happy with :)

(If none of this made sence, im sorry.. its 3am and I really should be banned from any form of posting whem im kinda half asleep ^_^;)

Reguardless, as one of the token goths 'round here, if you need shopping tips, makeup tips, hair tips etc give me a hollar and I'll give you all the info I can :)

Once again, Welcome and good luck!!

<3 <3

[Thornton]

Now see, I didn't know that about you, lil' bro! Maybe if you'd post a picture every once in a while...:D

yeah, I kinda figured I was the token black guy around here...and, to post a picture, it kinda helps to own a camera.:doh:



so yeah about the terminology... crossdressing vs FTM vs transgender vs whatever... I'll admit I have no idea what I'm talking about. Tried researching it via google, but it all just confused me really. So I don't know what I am, I just know how I feel =P

Yeah, I've been collecting information for a couple years now, and I know I still haven't learned everything. Only a couple months ago, I learned transsexual and transgendered are not the same thing...have fun researching!



okay. no ace bandages. check. I'm so glad someone told me. Aquiring special-made compressing items is going to be a bit difficult until I break it to my mother about this whole thing. I don't even know what I'm going to say yet.

Just a suggestion, you could send out a money order for a binder and have it shipped to a friend's house....
As for your mom, I suggest waiting til after you've done a little research and convey to her with the correct terms and evidence, just how you feel



Gothic pants have lots of pockets =D

:daydreaming:Yes, I remember those pants...very useful when it came to carrying stuff...also very annoying when I got stuck on every chair I sat in...



Mens underwear? *shrugs* I've kinda always wanted to wear boxers.

:gfi: the reason I ask is because some transguys pack their underwear (briefs) with specially made packers, or just a sock, to get a realistic looking bulge there. I'm a boxers man myself, so I don't...but if I'm going too far too fast on this, just ignore me.




Thanks so much for all of your help. I posted similar questions on other sites and didn't get nearly as much suggestions. I definately came to the right place. This has cheered me up so much. Thank you!!!

Yeah, we just kick ass like that.:smug:

[Ze]

so yeah about the terminology... crossdressing vs FTM vs transgender vs whatever... I'll admit I have no idea what I'm talking about. Tried researching it via google, but it all just confused me really. So I don't know what I am, I just know how I feel =P

Not a problem. Learning the basic terms themselves may just take time, but here's a nifty list (http://www.elirgreen.com/SIIE-Resources/GenderSexTerms.pdf) made from an acquaintance of mine. Hopefully it'll be a good place for you to start off from. :)


And ties? Its actually really funny that you mention that because I'm wearing one right now. I have more ties than my brother. hehe.

Ties are simply awesome.


I need to do some posting to get up to 10 already... silly rule

Not really. :) I see it as a great safety measure. A lot of us here are closeted, not fully out, or just want to be left alone, so the 10 post rule keeps spammers, gossipers, pedophiles, preying fetishers, etc from squirming into our profiles and album pictures and stuff to raise havoc. Then when you have general access to the site itself (i.e. after 10 posts), then you can start applying to all of the super cool extra bits you can qualify for.


(If none of this made sence, im sorry.. its 3am and I really should be banned from any form of posting whem im kinda half asleep ^_^;)

*makes a note* :devil:


yeah, I kinda figured I was the token black guy around here...and, to post a picture, it kinda helps to own a camera.:doh:

You never know, Thorn. ;) There are plenty of guys around here who don't have any pictures up. You're just so quick to label yourself, aren't you? :tongueout


Yeah, we just kick ass like that.:smug:

Yes...yes we do. :bow:

[Thomas]

Probly not too much help here, but the second picture reminded me alot of Bill Kaulitz from Tokyo Hotel XD
O.O *flattered* He's effing beautiful...


Not a problem. Learning the basic terms themselves may just take time, but here's a nifty list (http://www.elirgreen.com/SIIE-Resources/GenderSexTerms.pdf) made from an acquaintance of mine. Hopefully it'll be a good place for you to start off from. :)

THANKS!!



Not really. :) I see it as a great safety measure. A lot of us here are closeted, not fully out, or just want to be left alone, so the 10 post rule keeps spammers, gossipers, pedophiles, preying fetishers, etc from squirming into our profiles and album pictures and stuff to raise havoc. Then when you have general access to the site itself (i.e. after 10 posts), then you can start applying to all of the super cool extra bits you can qualify for.
You're right, I'm just whining about it xD



Just a suggestion, you could send out a money order for a binder and have it shipped to a friend's house....
As for your mom, I suggest waiting til after you've done a little research and convey to her with the correct terms and evidence, just how you feel
Good idea. Especially since I don't have a credit card yet *nods*


:gfi: the reason I ask is because some transguys pack their underwear (briefs) with specially made packers, or just a sock, to get a realistic looking bulge there. I'm a boxers man myself, so I don't...but if I'm going too far too fast on this, just ignore me.


ah... im fairly new to this. so i think i'm gonna lay off on the packing idea until i'm more comfortable with crossdressing.


And I've printed out pictures of the haircut I want. I'll be getting it either today or tomorrow, I'll post pics!

But until then... heres some pics of what happened when I went through my wardrobe today.... :D

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/guyme2.jpg
My gay friend was drooling over this one... said, and I quote, "no seriously o.o I'm like pounce take me now with yur strap on o.o XD"

AHAHAHA xD

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/Picture0180.jpg

Cap = instant guyness o.O;
don't mind the girly jacket =P it was the shape I was going for... *makes a mental note to guy some sweatshirts*
But yeah. It made me look younger but I was suprised at the sudden change... I'm really looking forward to my haircut now. ^^


Thanks so much... for the ten thousandth time. This probably won't be the last time you hear me thank you xD You all are such a huge help I don't even know what I'd do without you. You've given me a lot of confidence in going through with this. *smiles*

[Ze]

Cap = instant guyness o.O

Which is why I'm obsessed with hats. :D It can do a lot for a look.

And see? Told you you were passable. :hugs: You're definitely a boy in the second picture; the first you almost are, but I feel your hair is what might make people take a second guess. (But you already know that. ;) ) I still love your face in the first one, though. :P

And even if you don't feel that you need help anymore, feel free to stick around! This is a great place to make some virtual friends and help keep your confidence.

[Thornton]

Cap = instant guyness o.O;


Yeah, I can't believe I didn't mention that. Befriend hats. Hats and belts.




Thanks so much... for the ten thousandth time. This probably won't be the last time you hear me thank you xD You all are such a huge help I don't even know what I'd do without you. You've given me a lot of confidence in going through with this. *smiles*

:o Please, you're too kind...

[Thomas]

And even if you don't feel that you need help anymore, feel free to stick around! This is a great place to make some virtual friends and help keep your confidence.
don't need help anymore?! :eek: are you kidding me? xD This is a huge change I'm going through. I need all the help and support I can get! Remember, I'm still new to all this. :newbie:

Yeah, I can't believe I didn't mention that. Befriend hats. Hats and belts.
oh? why belts?

[Ze]

don't need help anymore?! :eek: are you kidding me? xD This is a huge change I'm going through. I need all the help and support I can get! Remember, I'm still new to all this. :newbie:

Ha! Sorry. :heehee: The way you were talking, I thought a push in the right direction was all you needed/wanted for right now. I figured you'd be back for more, either way. We're addictive. *nods*

So good! Stay! :)

[Thornton]

oh? why belts?

Guys wear belts because they don't have hips like chicks and their pants will fall down if they don't wear one. Unless the whole pants-halfway-down-your-ass is the look you're going for, I suggest wearing a belt because it's simply a staple of masculine clothing...

Anything else I'm forgetting about clothing....

Layers help make your chest seem flatter...

Ok that's all I got on clothes.

No, I remembered another one.

If you're lacking in body hair, don't wear shorts or sleeveless shirts...it would raise eyebrows

[4serrus]

Wear a guy's shoe. A men's sneaker helps a lot, they're a completely different shape than a women's shoe. Men's (in the US) are generally about 2 numbers smaller than the women's size. So if you wear an 8 in women's first try a 6 in guys. You may have to shop in the boy's department.

You don't look like you have a lot of curves (you lucky @#$!). Get clothes that fit you: baggy = not so good. Just a little loose.

Also: on belts: Thick belts, thicker is better. Also you can have huge freaking belt buckles and that's fun.

[Thomas]

guys... i got my hair cut...

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy2.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy3.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/5fd5a46bcb2c.jpg



i dont think i could possibly be happier.... omg

i would so squeel like a girl right now but that kinda ruins it xD



i found that my old corset is good for binding.
but it's still not completely flat... what are some cheap suggestions that i can use until im able to buy a propper compressor?

[Lady Katelyn]

hair looks good...I'd like to point out something that may be going unnoticed...hair products in your hair would do wonders for the emo look. Also, have you thought about going on the T? That'll deepen your voice and add facial hair. It'll do all sorts of masculine things to you as well.

Have you thought about working out and lifting weights? This will make you more guy like especially if you're sipping the T.

[Thomas]

hair looks good...I'd like to point out something that may be going unnoticed...hair products in your hair would do wonders for the emo look. Also, have you thought about going on the T? That'll deepen your voice and add facial hair. It'll do all sorts of masculine things to you as well.

Have you thought about working out and lifting weights? This will make you more guy like especially if you're sipping the T.

hair products sound good... but i dont know how or what to do with them and my hair o.o


about T... um well i havent even told my mother about my transgender stuff yet. so its unlikely i'll be able to get it any time soon. also i heard that its hard to get hormones if you have any emotional/mental problems...

id really love some tips on helping with my voice... ive been practicing but i kinda fail.

and yes i have thought of working out. but i also need some help as to what weights to lift in what way to get tones in the right places

[NiCo]

I just wanna say one thing...sorry, no advice right now [self-inflicted headache alert, I’ll come back to this post]

You are a very beautiful boy. I'm severely jealous of you.

:hugs:

[Thomas]

I just wanna say one thing...sorry, no advice right now [self-inflicted headache alert, I’ll come back to this post]

You are a very beautiful boy. I'm severely jealous of you.

:hugs:

D: thank you!! i honestly never thought it would turn out this well.

though i always thought i had the right facial structure to be a guy..

still its such a huge shock to me

[NiCo]

D: thank you!! i honestly never thought it would turn out this well.

though i always thought i had the right facial structure to be a guy..

still its such a huge shock to me

I understand you completely mate, it was five years this year at the tender age of 16 when i decided to begin moving towards living full time as male, feeling like i had my whole life but had been forced to wear female things to please my parents.

On T now and loving every day that ticks by, even drama filled days, i still have that big grin inside whilst a frown inhabits my face. I'm happy, and by your posts, so too are you.

It's a great feeling man, but if you decide to go full steam ahead with this, it's not gonna be easy, but at least if not in person, you have us to help and support you.

Looking good though man, deffo got the masculine look shining right out of ya...as i said, jealous is burning, i want your hair! Lol.

[PetiteDuality]

I must admit that when I started reading about getting an emo haircut I thought it was not a good idea. Emo guys sometimes look kind of girlie. But your pictures after the haircut are just amazing.

I think you can totally pass. How tall are you?

[Thomas]

I must admit that when I started reading about getting an emo haircut I thought it was not a good idea. Emo guys sometimes look kind of girlie. But your pictures after the haircut are just amazing.

I think you can totally pass. How tall are you?

I'm 5'5"

and honestly I knew I had to get an emo cut. Id gotten so used to my online persona that he became a part of me and if i was ever to be a guy i had to be him... and its seriously freaky cause... i look similar to that picture i picked out to represent myself years ago..

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/thomas/Thomas.jpg

but i end up looking really girly if i take a picture from the front view or if i smile. look how horrible D:

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/Picture0230.jpg

and im still worried about the voice thing.. thats probably the main thing keeping me from passing..

that. and body language. and my not-so-great binding.


I understand you completely mate, it was five years this year at the tender age of 16 when i decided to begin moving towards living full time as male, feeling like i had my whole life but had been forced to wear female things to please my parents.

On T now and loving every day that ticks by, even drama filled days, i still have that big grin inside whilst a frown inhabits my face. I'm happy, and by your posts, so too are you.

It's a great feeling man, but if you decide to go full steam ahead with this, it's not gonna be easy, but at least if not in person, you have us to help and support you.

Looking good though man, deffo got the masculine look shining right out of ya...as i said, jealous is burning, i want your hair! Lol.

this whole thing is a bit scarry to me honestly cause bringing it out in the open is so new... i feel like im kinda taking my heart and opening it on a table for the whole world to disect. but at the same time... being able to have such an awesome change is really exciting and it keeps me wanting to move forward

the bigger changes are something that i really want, but at the same time im also afraid of. perhaps because i don't know much about it...

[NiCo]

this whole thing is a bit scarry to me honestly cause bringing it out in the open is so new... i feel like im kinda taking my heart and opening it on a table for the whole world to disect. but at the same time... being able to have such an awesome change is really exciting and it keeps me wanting to move forward

the bigger changes are something that i really want, but at the same time im also afraid of. perhaps because i don't know much about it...

Yeah it is an exciting thing to be going on, and all the excitement will be like a driving-force, but you need to be careful with that because the first thing that goes wrong might push you back into the big bad closet. You need to stay strong and focused on what you want, not what other people want!

Not knowing anything about it can cause a lot of fear. At 16 i was really immature and naive and i was terrified. I knew what i wanted, i knew how i felt but didn't know how to express how i felt, where to start and what to do. Back then i didn't have all these guys cheering me on, i did it on my own, but now when i think back, that was good for me personally.

Anyway, best of luck, i'll reply some more when i wake up later today [it's 2:20 am, eeeeek!]

:thumbsup: :hugs:

[PetiteDuality]

but i end up looking really girly if i take a picture from the front view or if i smile. look how horrible D:

Hon, not horrible at all. You happen to be cute. We guys smile different and less often. It's something that has to be practiced. Maybe video recording yourself can help.

Regarding the voice: I guess it's easier for girls to make a male voice than it is for guys to emulate girl's voices. But I understand that hormones help. I remember an anecdote about the East German Olympic swimming coach (early 70's), being asked about the low voice tone of the female swimmers, he replied, "We came here to swim, not sing." They were illegally using hormones.

Good luck. I can see your are progressing very nicely. And it was just a haircut.

[Thornton]

guys... i got my hair cut...

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy2.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/measaguy3.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o404/TearsAndBloodyKisses/5fd5a46bcb2c.jpg



i dont think i could possibly be happier.... omg

i would so squeel like a girl right now but that kinda ruins it xD



i found that my old corset is good for binding.
but it's still not completely flat... what are some cheap suggestions that i can use until im able to buy a propper compressor?

wow, man. You look amazing. Your passing ability just went up a sh*tload of points. Good for you.

As for cheap binding suggestions, I'm afraid the only cheap (and safe) suggestion I have for you is, and actual compressor. http://underworks.com/ftm/. I use the 997 style. each one is about 30 dollars before shipping. If you live in the US, you can send in a mail order and it will arrive rather quickly. (I remember sending a mail order on monday and getting my binders by saturday). I wear the 997 with a typical sports bra underneath. I don't quite remember anymore, but I believe I am somewhere in the D cup range for bras, but with the 997, I'd say I'm 97% flat. No one would ever notice unless they were studying my chest intently (which would just be weird). What I also like about this model is that it extends below the waist line, so it eliminates your hips a little as well.

about your voice, have you read Ze's voice thread?: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111531

for body language, don't stress out too much about it. watch yourself, yes, but, if you worry too much, you'll just end up an awkward stiff. There is no one way to be a man. Every guy walks, talks and holds himself in whatever way is comfortable for him. Do what works for you.

and unfortunately, it does help in appearing more masculine if you don't smile. maybe because a smile makes the face more round like a girl's and less angular like a guy's, maybe smiles strip the face of the aggressive look (masculine look), I don't know.

"this whole thing is a bit scarry to me honestly cause bringing it out in the open is so new...i feel like im kinda taking my heart and opening it on a table for the whole world to disect. but at the same time... being able to have such an awesome change is really exciting and it keeps me wanting to move forward"

yeah, I remember the first time I bought a pair of boxers. I felt so scared, doing something considered taboo in our culture, but at the same time, happy and complete. The cashier addressed me as "young man" as paid for the underwear, and I felt flattered and petrified, because my voice would betray me if I responded back...

If you continue on with this even further, you'll find yourself coming out alot, to many people with varying knowledge and views on this issue, over and over. It is emotionally exhausting, and may at times seem unfair, but I find anything's worth it to be able to be yourself.

In regards to bigger, more permanent changes (hormones, surgery), think about it this way: you're 60 years old. Do you see a man, a woman, or someone in between? Since I was young, I saw myself growing into a man. The thought of being a woman makes me want to kill myself. Being a butch female just would not cut it for me. I'm not saying your views will be as black and white. You may never choose to make permanent changes, and that's just fine. There are many different ways to play human. But, keep doing research, to find out what you truly want.

[Ze]

id really love some tips on helping with my voice... ive been practicing but i kinda fail.

Shazaam (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111531)! (I knew this thread would come in handy!)

Don't worry about the hormones right now. Seriously. If you feel you want them later on, then go for it. If not, that's fine, too. But for now, I get the feeling you're more "finding yourself" than anything else. Hormones are a big and irreversible decision. (And yes, can be difficult to get!) For now, simply get comfortable with yourself. :hugs:

And I absolutely love your hair! (Wow, did that sound girly? :P) I feel it definitely proves you're passable. I wish my haircut had turned out that good. You've got the perfect punk/emo boy look going on now.

Edit: Darn it, Thorny, you stole my thunder! :slap: Now I won't wake you when I have three ladies in the room!

[Felix]

Hi Thomas and welcome :hugs: I have been on this forum for three years and boy has it helped me and given me a lot of support :) I'm now six months into my transition and very happy with the way things are going. I myself came here much like you knowing my inner self to be male and wanting to express that to the outer world!! Being here has helped me to do this :) I'm sure you will find all the help and support you need here its a great place :) Now for your questions although I have to say I have to agree with most of what the peeps here have put and haven't got much to add except......

You do not have to be more aggressive to come across as male that's being macho in my book and in many other peeps books I know as well and that can be a complete turn off to a lot of peeps. The key is to be POSITIVELY ASSERTIVE :D Walk tall, shoulders back this will show confidence in who you are. Do eye contact but not overly coz men don't over do the eye contact thing ever were as women tend to be more eye contact conscious. Well I hope this has helped Hun and if I think of anything else I'll add it laters. Take cares xx Felix :hugs:

[Thornton]

Edit: Darn it, Thorny, you stole my thunder! :slap: Now I won't wake you when I have three ladies in the room!

:sad:Aww, I'm sorry...I was only trying to help...I did credit you though, don't I get points for that?

[Ze]

:sad:Aww, I'm sorry...I was only trying to help...I did credit you though, don't I get points for that?

Naaaaah, you're fine. :tongueout Just teasing you. :hugs:

[Seamus_Jameson]

I've been off in a depressive funk the past week, but I just had to post a quick word of encouragement.

Tom, I'm going to contradict some of my more experienced brothers here, and suggest you go as fast as you can/want to (except for irreversible things like hormones and surgery). Many people AREN'T going to take you seriously, no matter what you do. I think everyone here can identify with the "heart on the table" emotions you are talking about. Basically, use that desperation to your advantage. Let the depression (and you will feel a lot of it) fuel your anger and let the anger fuel your aggression/confidence. It will drive you into places you never imagined you could go. Just, make sure you do have some space/privacy, because there are times you WILL need somewhere safe to cry/journal/rant/contemplate suicide (whatever you do when you feel down). Pick yourself up, get back out there. You have as much right to crossdress as anyone else. And as Logan said, if you are FTM, you are already a man. Nothing. . . no article of clothing, no femme gestures, no F on your driver's license (you do have a driver's license, right? :)), nothing, no matter what. . . can take that away from you.

If someone else DOESN'T/CAN'T/WON'T see that, that's their problem.

If I had to offer any advice, be carefully who you come out to. I say this seriously, because there will be times when you are sitting with some friend/relative/neighbor, etc, and ze (sorry Ze!) will be talking about that "nice young lady" or "my wonderful niece". If the sudden urge to contradict said person arises, bite your tongue. Think about it carefully and talk to them later, if you really want them to know.

If it seems like I'm get way ahead of things, you might be happy to know that I've known about being transgendered all of three months. I came from very, very feminine, make-up, dresses, long hair, whole nine yards. I'm shorter than you are, too (5'2"). I've gone through things I wouldn't have believed possible--and I also get recognized as male several times a week. It can/does happen. Enjoy it!

[onerous]

I'll have to say something else... different, maybe.

Going through these kinds of sites can make you really engrossed in the whole TG thing.. happened to me, until it's all you could think of at times.. the "blue fog", maybe? There was a member here last time.. believing themselves to be a FTM.. then after an absence of a few months, came back saying that they realised they were not really a FTM.. just a masculine-identified female, female nonetheless.. said there was too much pressure (even though it may be invisible) from people here, to be a boy.. and that they just needed a break from these kinds of sites..

First make sure this is what you actually DO want deep inside yourself.. as that you really are TG rather than a CD... big difference there.. yes there are indeed FTM CDs around.. You don't want to be deep into transition and T before you realise that this is not really what you want.. give it a think, don't rush too quickly and enthusiastically into things.. start by slowly crossdressing a little, then going out into public as male etc.. see how it makes you feel, if that's indeed what you really want 24/7 for the rest of your life.. there can be that initial adrenaline thrill...

And um.. get a gender counselor.. get therapy... I belong to a few FTM yahoo groups.. on one of them theres a guy who is living fairly happily as a guy.. he said if he had therapy about 20 years ago.. he might not have needed to transition and could have lived happily as female if he had addressed the underlying self-issues he had at that time..

I just don't want you to make any mistakes that might be regretted for the rest of your life.. seen a fair few of those regret stories already... since you still seem to be pretty unsure of what exactly you are.. whether a CD or TG..?

I realise that on sites like these, it is frowned upon, almost taboo, to give an opinion that is opposing the majority "supportive" opinion... (seen that from my extensive MTF section lurkings) but I just wanted to get it out there. Its better than to have regrets later.

[Thornton]

I realise that on sites like these, it is frowned upon, almost taboo, to give an opinion that is opposing the majority "supportive" opinion... (seen that from my extensive MTF section lurkings) but I just wanted to get it out there. Its better than to have regrets later.

No, this is actually a very good point, onerous.

yeah, listen to him.

[NiCo]

First of all I suggest you google a few things. Such as transsexual, (ftm), cross dresser, queer and follow the links on the pages and read everything (maybe diagnose yourself?) cause if you don’t know what you are, it could be because you don’t have enough information or it could be confusion. Maybe something will spring out and you’ll be like “wow, that’s me!” you know?

Seamus made a good point, if you are SURE you are ftm then do it as quickly as you can. I wasn’t taken seriously, EVEN when I knew exactly what I was and had known my whole life but didn’t have the name for it. It’s only been recently when I’ve become ‘stubborn’ that I’ve been taken seriously with family etc. I refuse to answer to my old name (and I do it in a very arrogant way) and I ask “who is that? I thought she died?” etc. If they called me ‘her’ ‘she’ etc I say “I have male on my passport for a reason” and now they have finally taken the hint.

But onerous is right too. If you REALLY don’t know what you are, don’t rush into medical treatment until you know 100000000000000% cause you WILL regret it! See a therapist, talk with them blah blah and get it sorted in your head and THEN move onto the next step, which ever that may be.

There has been many time I’ve thought “for god sake would it be easier if I just lived as female, regardless how I feel…I get shouted at in the street, taken the piss out of by family and medical professionals and I might never find that partner to settle down with, never have kids, never be happy?” but then I remember back to the times I took numerous overdoses, was sectioned in psychiatric hospitals and self-harmed and it was all because I was so bloody upset at being ‘deformed’ and now I don’t care if I’ll settle down with a partner, have kids, cause I WILL be happy, on my own or whatever happens, I’ll feel at peace, I’ll give real smiles, because I’m sorting something out that should have been done 21 years ago.

It’s already showing now that this is the right thing I’m doing. Since my first T and anti-estrogen injections, I have not once attended hospital due to feeling suicidal, not once took anti depressant medication, not once phoned my dad up in a state of tears and screaming due to complete disgust at myself. I have been chilling at home, enjoying my voice breaking, my face changing and getting hairier lol…it’s brilliant. But that’s only because it’s right for me, I am sure and know this is what I NEED (not want)

[QUOTE=onerous;1805639I realise that on sites like these, it is frowned upon, almost taboo, to give an opinion that is opposing the majority "supportive" opinion...[/QUOTE]

This is a good point because I have been banned off about a dozen sites like this one because I have expressed something the other members didn’t like, I gave my opinion also, my own feelings and how I thought some of the things the other members said were WRONG in MY head, and I found myself banned. This is the only site that I have been able to express myself freely. That is why I am still here, it’s quite flexible and opinions are expressed liberally. Say what you want here, you will probably find that there is a lot of mature people here [haha, opinionated ;) ] and you might just get the answers you have been hunting high and low for.

Good luck x

[Ze]

and ze (sorry Ze!) will be talking about that "nice young lady" or "my wonderful niece".

Ha! For a minute there, I really thought that was some sort of weird dig at me. First I thought, "When have I ever talked about my niece that way?" And then, "When has Seamus ever heard me?" And then I thought, "Wait...I have a niece?" :doh:

That's what I get for having a pronoun for a name. ;)



And um.. get a gender counselor.. get therapy...

Yes yes yes! Do this! Personally, this was a fantastic step for me for two reasons:

1) She assured me I was not at all crazy. (That was a relief!)

2) She helped me figure out who I am. For whatever reason, I was becoming so confused and wishy-washy that she would suggest what she thought I might be, then I'd go home think about it, and pretty much say, "Yeah, you're right." :P Of course, never stand for a therapist that insists on what you are; that decision is still ultimately your own.

[Thomas]

ranting time. need to vent.

just a lot has been on my mind with this thing. I told a friend about my transgender issues and she was very supportive and nice about it... but shes been spreading the news around to everyone she meets. It's been making me feel very uncomfortable, because i was not really ready to openly come out of the closet to the whole world. Ive had people call me Thomas now who i didnt even know knew anything about it... and its a bit... humiliating, to tell you the truth. this is an extremely personal thing for me. something that I even feel guilty about at times. and its almost making me just want to revert to being female just to get away from all the stares, all the questions, the embarrassment... its really starting to upset me.

my friend was kind enough to actually BUY me a compressor shirt. and she put up a journal on Deviant Art about me to try and gain support for me. It was very sweet... but theres still the embarrassing aspect about telling MORE people...

I do have a therapist. but I haven't told her any of this yet. She's the type of person who would most likely say that im confused or that i have some sort of psychological condition and that i need to be "fixed". and then AGAIN its embarrassing!

i shouldn't be so humiliated by all this. but i'm thinking that maybe I came out to people about it too soon. I'm extremely sensitive about it. It's PERSONAL. I don't know. Its just hard for me...

Coming out as being bisexual was easy... i'm surrounded by friends who aren't straight. I was able to ask questions about what i was feeling, get advice and help. And it was so easily accepted...

Being transgender is HARD. its SCARRY. i'm freaking terrified. I don't have anyone to turn to to ask questions. and eventhough my friends have been nice about it... i know that it is not so easily accepted. They look at me differently. It's awkward and uncomfortable. I just *sigh* It seems like every little thing I do that makes me happier and that makes me want to be a guy even MORE is counteracted by something humiliating to make me upset and make me want to go back to being a girl.

All my whining summarized: its upsetting. what do i do?

[Thornton]

I told a friend about my transgender issues and she was very supportive and nice about it... but shes been spreading the news around to everyone she meets. It's been making me feel very uncomfortable, because i was not really ready to openly come out of the closet to the whole world. Ive had people call me Thomas now who i didnt even know knew anything about it... and its a bit... humiliating, to tell you the truth. this is an extremely personal thing for me. something that I even feel guilty about at times. and its almost making me just want to revert to being female just to get away from all the stares, all the questions, the embarrassment... its really starting to upset me.

Ask your friend to stop. She probably thinks she's doing you a favor by telling others, and has no idea that it's really bothering you so much. It's your life and you have the right to decide who knows what about it.


my friend was kind enough to actually BUY me a compressor shirt.

wow...isn't that nice? Which retailer, do you know?


I do have a therapist. but I haven't told her any of this yet. She's the type of person who would most likely say that im confused or that i have some sort of psychological condition and that i need to be "fixed". and then AGAIN its embarrassing!

but you can't know for sure until you try. if she rejects you or tries to "fix" you, find a new therapist.



Being transgender is HARD.
yup.


its SCARRY.
quite.



i'm freaking terrified. I don't have anyone to turn to to ask questions.

well, isn't that what this forum is about? you can ask questions here, you can vent...i know cyber-reality and physical reality are two different worlds, and we'll never be a part of your physical reality, but we'll help as much as we can.

and, I know it can feel like you're the only one out there with this issue. I know you know you're not, but it will still feel like it. to combat this feeling, I seriously suggest finding a queer youth group in your nearby major city. It will cater to trans youth as well, and there you'll be able to physically see and get to know people in situations similar to yours.

[Thomas]

wow...isn't that nice? Which retailer, do you know?

underworks :3 since it was recommended to me so many times. She picked it out with me. I got the 988. It hasn't arrived yet. I sent out the money order on saturday. im excited.



but you can't know for sure until you try. if she rejects you or tries to "fix" you, find a new therapist.

*deep sigh* okay. i just. don't exactly know how to go about discussing that subject



well, isn't that what this forum is about? you can ask questions here, you can vent...i know cyber-reality and physical reality are two different worlds, and we'll never be a part of your physical reality, but we'll help as much as we can.

and, I know it can feel like you're the only one out there with this issue. I know you know you're not, but it will still feel like it. to combat this feeling, I seriously suggest finding a queer youth group in your nearby major city. It will cater to trans youth as well, and there you'll be able to physically see and get to know people in situations similar to yours.

I know. and ive been relying on this a lot. you all have been really helpful and supportive. but you're right its not the same as reality. however. i do know one post-op mtf girl who lives near me and who some of my friends know. theyve spoken to her about me and given me her number. but. its so emberassing to call her. i don't know what i'd say. i just wanted to contact her to have her as a friend. someone who gets it. its really awkward to just call up a stranger like that just because shes trans like me. seems almost rude...

and i really would love to find a group like that! there should be one since i live like really close to Atlanta. I just don't know how to find them? I guess...

[brylram]

Ive had people call me Thomas now who i didnt even know knew anything about it...

This right here, daunting as it currently is, is a GOOD thing! Being called the right name everywhere you turn, without having to ask for it, is something that usually takes a good deal of fighting to achieve, and often doesn't happen until after being on testosterone for a while. Understand that I'm not saying it isn't a little too much too soon for you to handle, just like waking up having gone from being pre-T to having a beard and everything overnight would be... I'm just saying that the fact that you're being called the right name faster than expected, is MUCH better then being met with pointed use of the wrong one, or being greeted with a fist.

While I can't personally relate to wanting to move slow, (I had already known I was male for years and just thought I was stuck with my body, so I wasn't about to take anymore shit as soon as I found out that wasn't true, and I came out to my parents that very night) I CAN relate to the feeling of being put on the spot, and undoubtedly more than a little bit of a lack of safety. Fear and uncertainty are a part of every transperson's journey, in one way or another... but as one of the many (MANY) people who have had to struggle for the right name to be used even by those they were close to, believe me, scary yet positive is a gift.

I guess the closing thought/summary of what I'm saying here is that: People are going to be way the **** up in your bubble... cherish it when they're in there smiling at you, not spitting.

[4serrus]

Tell em you're a person, not a science project.

[Ze]

I can understand your feelings of fear and humiliation. I bet a lot of people here can. :hugs:

This stuff can start off as very personal. Of course, it varies for people, but to me, it was my matter. People could know about it when I said so, and when I told them myself. I'm not and have never been ashamed of who I am, but I was afraid and embarrassed of people I didn't know (but who would somehow already know about me) approach me.

I'm getting a bit freer with my identity, but I know I'll still have an issue if people I don't or barely know come up to me with knowledge of me being TG when I'm not ready for them. It makes me feel like I'm more a topic of gossip than empowerment.

Anyway, your friend, as supportive as they are, may be taking the classic "proof that they're hip route." I could be dead wrong, but it's a trend that people, who accept TGs or think they're cool, will immediately spread around that they have such a friend in the hopes that their own public image looks cooler by association. Basically, spreading the news is more for their sake than yours. It's still unfortunate; they shouldn't be saying stuff when you're not ready. In the end, it's kind of like somebody trying to passively prove they're not racist by telling everybody that they have a black friend.

The same goes for people who barely know you already calling you "Thomas." Looking at it one way, it seems positive that people are accepting you as TG, but I daresay this is more for themselves than you. Just like somebody saying that they have a TG friend to improve their own self-image of acceptance, others may scramble to "appear" TG-friendly since it's becoming the cool thing to do in our generation. The end result is a huge breach of your privacy and a sudden lacking of your own autonomy in relation to your TG-ness and identity crisis.

I also agree with what Thornton said: If your therapist tries to "fix" you, find a new one. I know it's easier said than done, but I can't stress this more.

All in all, hang in there. You're in a position right now that's really confusing: You think your trans and struggling with that, yet suddenly it's becoming a public matter. You feel weird and want to vent about people automatically calling you "Thomas," yet feel bad about "complaining" about people "accepting" you. Of course you want people to accept you! Just not this way. Am I somewhat right in saying this? :)

You at least have us here on this forum, so feel free to vent whenever you want. :hugs:

[Thornton]

i've never tried 988. tell me how it fits.


How about: "I feel like my mind is incongruent with my body..." or " Every step I take towards masculinity makes me happy"...or something of the like. I can't put words in your mouth. Sit down, think about it, write it down on an index card if you have to, and tell her.

I give you, Youth Pride: http://www.youthpride.org/home
found courtesy of google.

[brylram]

Tell em you're a person, not a science project.

Really... ? I hope you don't mean that about the people in general, rather than just the friend who told everyone.

The only person doing anything wrong, as far as I can see from what was written (it seems like they're just using the name unexpectedly, not being mean about it, so if I'm wrong about that I'll have to rethink) is the friend who blabbed. The feeling of embarassment will pass, leaving a bunch of people doing the right thing without Thomas having to fight for it... transition is uncomfortable, but this is probably the best breed of discomfort there is.

The friend should definitely have kept her mouth shut, and needs to be talked to for sure... but telling anyone else off when they're doing good, would just be counter-productive and lead to a new set of difficulties later on, which would be ON TOP of the current embarassment.

EDITS: more posts were made while I was typing


Of course, it varies for people, but to me, it was my matter. People could know about it when I said so, and when I told them myself. I'm not and have never been ashamed of who I am, but I was afraid and embarrassed of people I didn't know (but who would somehow already know about me) approach me.

The problem in that situation is only the person/people who spread the info when they weren't supposed to. Really though, would it be better for people, once they knew, to call you the wrong thing anyway? Once they know, they should absolutely use the right name and pronouns, regardless of how they know or what their motivation is.


The same goes for people who barely know you already calling you "Thomas." Looking at it one way, it seems positive that people are accepting you as TG, but I daresay this is more for themselves than you. Just like somebody saying that they have a TG friend to improve their own self-image of acceptance, others may scramble to "appear" TG-friendly since it's becoming the cool thing to do in our generation. The end result is a huge breach of your privacy and a sudden lacking of your own autonomy in relation to your TG-ness and identity crisis.

Again, why is it a bad thing that those people are using the right name? They shouldn't know, but they do... so they are absolutely doing the right thing, regardless of how it makes Thomas feel at this point in time. Never, EVER should it be acceptable for a person to DECIDE to use the wrong name or pronouns once they know. If the average person were to be informed that they should call a transperson what they have learned is the wrong thing until PERSONALLY informed otherwise... would that be what you would see as ideal?

**** what their reason for acknowledging your identity is.. the fact is that it is absolutely what they should be doing. Is it unexpected? Yes. Is it uncomfortable for you at this point? Clearly, yes. Does the friend need to be talked to? Definitely. Should you tell anyone who uses that name with you that you would like them not to use it in conversation with anyone who doesn't use it first? Well, that's up to you... especially on the matter of whether they should reinforce use of your female name now that the right one is being used by some instead. Here's a thought from that though... now that so many are using the right name, you probably should just deal with it... because now that some people are using the right name it IS going to spread.

So which is a better situation:

1. a. Blah blah blah, Thomas, blah blah.
b. Thomas? What are you talking about... that's *female name*.
c. Oh crap, you didn't know... well actually... (*feels sheepish for letting it leak, but can't go back now*)

or

2. c. Oh yeh, right, they're a girl... you are correct.

Especially if that's followed with anything refering to how Thomas is a name that should not be used for you in the future and how others should be informed as such.

[Ze]

I figured somebody would try and bring up this argument soon enough; the idea that the motive doesn't matter.

Once again, Thomas is being objectified against his will. That's not cool. Private information is being spread against his wishes. That's not cool. He's being treated and viewed as a trendy showpiece, not a person. That's not cool. He's being used as an end to somebody else's means, not as an end for his own. That's not cool.

All in all, it's recognition without the respect. Thomas is already being cited as "the transperson" rather than a person that happens to be trans. His TG-ness is being recognized as the sole of his identity and existence. I am sure any of us with a life will agree that there's more to us than our TG-ness.

The problem with recognition without the respect is it won't last forever. Once the trend dies out (kind of like America's current obsession with going green), all the hipster followers will go with it. Once the recognition is gone, we'll be left with no more respect than what we started out with. It's very healthy for Thomas to be realizing his distaste for such attention on his own already; it shows he's not in some sort of blue fog or in need of a serious reality check.

If these people had respect for Thomas, they wouldn't be bombarding him every which way. They'd be doing the opposite.

I can't speak for Thomas at this point, but I personally would rather the realness of somebody insisting I'm female when I'm not, provided that's how they think. Why? I want to deal with their true emotions, their true feelings about me being trans. I can't stand forced acceptance; we'll never get anywhere that way. To disguise somebody's negative or blase feelings this way makes it a lot harder to detect the warning signs of hate later on down the line. And that can lead to some serious consequences, some far worse than simple resentment breeding. To do otherwise, to rather somebody's negative feelings be masked, is to be coddled in a world that doesn't exist.

Side moment: It would be a lot easier, Logan, if you would cite who said which quote you are quoting, especially when quoting more than one person in a post.

[Thomas]

This right here, daunting as it currently is, is a GOOD thing! Being called the right name everywhere you turn, without having to ask for it, is something that usually takes a good deal of fighting to achieve, and often doesn't happen until after being on testosterone for a while. Understand that I'm not saying it isn't a little too much too soon for you to handle, just like waking up having gone from being pre-T to having a beard and everything overnight would be... I'm just saying that the fact that you're being called the right name faster than expected, is MUCH better then being met with pointed use of the wrong one, or being greeted with a fist.




**** what their reason for acknowledging your identity is.. the fact is that it is absolutely what they should be doing. Is it unexpected? Yes. Is it uncomfortable for you at this point? Clearly, yes. Does the friend need to be talked to? Definitely. Should you tell anyone who uses that name with you that you would like them not to use it in conversation with anyone who doesn't use it first? Well, that's up to you... especially on the matter of whether they should reinforce use of your female name now that the right one is being used by some instead. Here's a thought from that though... now that so many are using the right name, you probably should just deal with it... because now that some people are using the right name it IS going to spread.


You're completely right. I'm not complaining about the name use at all. I'm glad for it. However its the fact that they KNOW that was my point. And truly it is a bit unnerving to hear the name called by someone who you're not expecting to hear it from.



I guess the closing thought/summary of what I'm saying here is that: People are going to be way the **** up in your bubble... cherish it when they're in there smiling at you, not spitting.
ahhhhhh my bubble. gah that major sucks. but you're right. theyre being kind as of now. i need to suck it up and deal with it.


Tell em you're a person, not a science project.

I do feel very much like a science project. being stared at. talked about. asking me questions..


I can understand your feelings of fear and humiliation. I bet a lot of people here can. :hugs:

This stuff can start off as very personal. Of course, it varies for people, but to me, it was my matter. People could know about it when I said so, and when I told them myself. I'm not and have never been ashamed of who I am, but I was afraid and embarrassed of people I didn't know (but who would somehow already know about me) approach me.

I'm getting a bit freer with my identity, but I know I'll still have an issue if people I don't or barely know come up to me with knowledge of me being TG when I'm not ready for them. It makes me feel like I'm more a topic of gossip than empowerment.


ahh, Ze, you're currently my favorite person. when you came in here saying "Thomas, are you me?!" It sent me laughing. But now I really think its true xD you relate well to me and i like it!

but yes. yes. thats precisely how i feel


Anyway, your friend, as supportive as they are, may be taking the classic "proof that they're hip route." I could be dead wrong, but it's a trend that people, who accept TGs or think they're cool, will immediately spread around that they have such a friend in the hopes that their own public image looks cooler by association. Basically, spreading the news is more for their sake than yours. It's still unfortunate; they shouldn't be saying stuff when you're not ready. In the end, it's kind of like somebody trying to passively prove they're not racist by telling everybody that they have a black friend.

The same goes for people who barely know you already calling you "Thomas." Looking at it one way, it seems positive that people are accepting you as TG, but I daresay this is more for themselves than you. Just like somebody saying that they have a TG friend to improve their own self-image of acceptance, others may scramble to "appear" TG-friendly since it's becoming the cool thing to do in our generation. The end result is a huge breach of your privacy and a sudden lacking of your own autonomy in relation to your TG-ness and identity crisis.

I don't think thats entirely correct... perhaps partially. She's one of those people who are very sympathetic and go too far in trying to help, to make the issue their whole life and such. But she's also the type of person who LOVES the lgbt community and obsesses over anyone in it. so...

not sure. however. i did make a bit of a mistake by blowing up at her the other day. there were many things other than this that have bugged me and its been building up over some time... and Thomas went BOOM :doh:



All in all, hang in there. You're in a position right now that's really confusing: You think your trans and struggling with that, yet suddenly it's becoming a public matter. You feel weird and want to vent about people automatically calling you "Thomas," yet feel bad about "complaining" about people "accepting" you. Of course you want people to accept you! Just not this way. Am I somewhat right in saying this? :)

You at least have us here on this forum, so feel free to vent whenever you want. :hugs:

yes yes! you mind reader you *shakes fist*

oh and. I've reached the 10 post limit. now what do i do? xD

i've never tried 988. tell me how it fits.


How about: "I feel like my mind is incongruent with my body..." or " Every step I take towards masculinity makes me happy"...or something of the like. I can't put words in your mouth. Sit down, think about it, write it down on an index card if you have to, and tell her.

I give you, Youth Pride: http://www.youthpride.org/home
found courtesy of google.

buahaha ty xD and yeah. my therapist has told me that if theres something hard to talk about i should write it and give it to her that way. thats what i plan to do for this. finding the words isnt easy though.

EDIT:



All in all, it's recognition without the respect. Thomas is already being cited as "the transperson" rather than a person that happens to be trans. His TG-ness is being recognized as the sole of his identity and existence. I am sure any of us with a life will agree that there's more to us than our TG-ness.
exactly!


I can't speak for Thomas at this point,
apparantly you can since you're like my mind-twin

but I personally would rather the realness of somebody insisting I'm female when I'm not, provided that's how they think. Why? I want to deal with their true emotions, their true feelings about me being trans. I can't stand forced acceptance; we'll never get anywhere that way. To disguise somebody's negative or blase feelings this way makes it a lot harder to detect the warning signs of hate later on down the line. And that can lead to some serious consequences, some far worse than simple resentment breeding. To do otherwise, to rather somebody's negative feelings be masked, is to be coddled in a world that doesn't exist.

yes.. and the sad part is theyre ACCEPTING me as a TRANSGENDER but not as a GUY. They call me Thomas. They act supportive. but they still see me as a girl. they still say "she" they still treat me like a girl. thats not... what i want at all.

((edited again because i put my "exactly" in the wrong place))

[Ze]

ahh, Ze, you're currently my favorite person. when you came in here saying "Thomas, are you me?!" It sent me laughing. But now I really think its true xD you relate well to me and i like it!

but yes. yes. thats precisely how i feel

:D Spooky, init it? Glad I could help, though. Edit: And glad I could put words in your mouth with my other post, too.


I don't think thats entirely correct... perhaps partially. She's one of those people who are very sympathetic and go too far in trying to help, to make the issue their whole life and such. But she's also the type of person who LOVES the lgbt community and obsesses over anyone in it. so...

I'll back off on that then. :) You certainly would know her better than me. But yes, the "obsession" is unfortunately a bit peculiar.


oh and. I've reached the 10 post limit. now what do i do? xD

Yeah, I was watching carefully for that. :P Go here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?s=&securitytoken=1249410754-8f2757b17e13c06250455dddd896540a9e491bb9&do=search&q=boys+clubhouse&match=all&titlesonly=0) and click on "Group Memberships." Then fill out whatever they ask you; I think you just need a reason. Submit it and I'll accept you into the sub-forum personally. ;) Based on your thread here, I'm pretty sure you're worth your salt.

But, one little thing you kind of have to do first: make a thread in the "new members" section and formally introduce yourself. It's kind of a rule here and I'd rather not get the two of us in trouble just because you didn't do it. :D

[Thomas]

Yeah, I was watching carefully for that. :P Go here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?s=&securitytoken=1249410754-8f2757b17e13c06250455dddd896540a9e491bb9&do=search&q=boys+clubhouse&match=all&titlesonly=0) and click on "Group Memberships." Then fill out whatever they ask you; I think you just need a reason. Submit it and I'll accept you into the sub-forum personally. ;) Based on your thread here, I'm pretty sure you're worth your salt.

But, one little thing you kind of have to do first: make a thread in the "new members" section and formally introduce yourself. It's kind of a rule here and I'd rather not get the two of us in trouble just because you didn't do it. :D

done and done (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1821222#post1821222) :3

[Ze]

done and done (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1821222#post1821222) :3

And done (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1821236#post1821236). :D

[Thomas]

got my binder yesterday ( the 988 ) :D I'm wearing it now. It was a bit hard to get on but not nearly as hard as some of the stories ive heard xD My main concern is how to get it OFF >>;

Anyway it binds pretty well. Not perfectly, but better than I was doing before xD I wouldn't suggest it for anyone bigger. But my main surprise was that its so COMFORTABLE o.O are binders supposed to be comfy? Im in love with it haha. I'll post pics when I stop being sick >.<

[Thornton]

ah, yes...getting the binder on and off...Soon, you will be proficient in "The Binder Dance".

No, it won't combine completely, since, well, you've still got something under there. Nothing will make your chest look flatter than an actual flat chest. But getting most of the way flat while saving for top surgery money is pretty nice. Have you tried it with a sports bra?

Yes, binders are meant to bind comfortably. This is the healthy way to bind. You are not meant to feel pain, like you would with the Ace bandage approach. Now, aren't you glad we all yelled at you?:D

Get well soon, Tom.

[Ze]

I'll post pics when I stop being sick >.<

Awww but those always make for the best pictures! :D Hope you feel better. :hugs:

[NiCo]

I dunno Thornton, I’ve been wearing a binder since I was 17 [4 years :eek:] and I think the uncomfortable feeling is more annoyance than pain lol. Never seems to be comfortable these days…NEVER.

Also, I don’t need to dislocate my shoulders to get mines on or dance to get mines off now, I have a zip on the front :D woohoo!

[Thornton]

yeah, sometimes it can get itchy in places, and sticky on hazy days....and the annoying reminder that we even have to wear a binder at all...

damn you and your zipper:swear:

[Ze]

Zipper fight!

[its just me 919]

i agree the 10 posting rule is a silly one but i think i understand why they have it. as for passing someone said before you are already a male just be who you are, dress as you feel and in time all will fall into place

[its just me 919]

i wonder why cant they just invent something that switches mtf's to ftm's .. even if its for a few months at a time.. that would solve all our problems

[Ze]

i wonder why cant they just invent something that switches mtf's to ftm's .. even if its for a few months at a time.. that would solve all our problems

Yeah, I know I've talked about that with some of my MtF friends; If we could just switch bodies, it'd be pretty awesome. :)

[Thomas]

okay. so. update. *sigh*

In case you all were wondering, I did not, in fact, die or fall off the face of the earth. =P

As I told Ze, (copypaste because im being lazy and i already have way too much to type out as it is)
"i wanted to take some time off from the forums for a while. having some of those fun questioning-myself issues.. wanted to sort through them some. because every time i came to CD.com it would inspire me and push me forward even more.. and i just... needed to take a breather and make sure it was what i really wanted. cause i rushed into things a bit fast and didnt examine myself enough. so im having to backtrack and do all that introspection self-analysis stuff."

So. on that subject. Still. going through... hell in my mind. and i really have no idea what the %@&! is going on. im so confused i barely know where to start.

mostly i guess im confused about my gender identity. and it might be because of me being surrounded by way too many feminine guys and MtFs... but im finding femininity more attractive. like... *furrows brow* its weird though. cause like im attracted to it and i like it and a part of my mind goes
"but wait D: you're trying to be more guyish"
and then i start thinking, "well maybe im confused about my want to be a guy?"
and then i consider maybe staying female. but then that idea is just so revolting somehow.
and i think. well maybe ill just dress girly for a day and get it out of my system. but then i realise... i dont want that either. i dont want to be girly. ive never really been feminine.
so i dont really know whats going on. its just when im trying to be more guyish i feel like i kindof loose parts of myself and i feel... almost deprived of something. but i dont know what. and i think im bored. guys clothes are boring. i love girly stuff and femininity... just on OTHER people not on me. and its weird cause i like them but i just dont want to wear them. i dont feel comfortable in them. i dont like how it makes me feel. and i realised that maybe the reason im bored is not because of the clothes but because of the internal changes...
when im in drag i become extremely more quiet, very apathetic, very calm. its pretty much opposite of what im used to being. im used to being loud and hyper and weird. but i can't seem guyish when i do that. and im self-concious of my voice so i dont talk much. and my smile makes me girly so i dont smile much. and i feel... like im suppressing myself rather than expressing myself. and then i realized... freaking hell. i dont even pass. or i dont think i do. i feel like i still look like a girl no matter what. and thats probably the part that is affecting me the most.
its depressing to go out and think "i dont pass everyone looks at me and immediately sees a girl. this is so useless i hate this. i feel like a freak and a loser i shouldnt even do this anymore" and that mindset gets me so down and hurt and upset. it really really discourages me. and when i remember back when i first started crossdressing... i believed i passed really well. i was so happy. my self esteem went wayy up. i actually thought i was attractive and i was really really happy. its when i started thinking that i didnt pass... when i realized that it was much easier to look like a guy in pictures than in real life... thats really the point when everything kindof crashed and burned...
so... im extremely confused about... well still about "is this what i want?" and also about "what do i do?" *sigh*

anyway... i know thats all a jumble of mixed up thoughts and nonsense but thats kindof been my confused mindset recently and i don't really know what to do with it. I turned to you guys because... well you understand. you know how scary and hard this is and you've been a huge source of support and guidance to me thus far, i hoped i could find some kindof clarity here. Thanks for taking the time to read.

Thomas

[Elric]

Yeah, I know I've talked about that with some of my MtF friends; If we could just switch bodies, it'd be pretty awesome. :)

Amen!! It's almost like there is a great cosmic joke going on and we're the last to be in on it.

Great new avatar, Ze! Snappy pic!

Greetings, Thomas. Nice to see you post here again.

It's possible you are truly feeling the tug of both sides to one degree or another. And honestly, I do not feel that gender is black and white, but a mix of hues. What we call male or female is often defined by societal roles and views that are popular at any given time to suit the situation (although some last centuries).

On the other hand, there is a part of you that may be having difficulty "letting go" of your perceived femine side for whatever reason. If you wish to retain some of it, so be it. Why not? Whether it's an aspect of mannerism, attire, or attitude. Be YOU. Discover YOU. Take your time. And I hate to say this, but we all change and grow over time into something different than what we are today.

Whether others feel you pass or not should not be as important as if YOU feel you pass or that you feel you are being true to yourself.

I do hope that makes a semblance of sense. We may not all know who we are 100% and the journey can be a struggle, but day by day, year by year, we can learn who we are and be true to that.

Cheers

[Ze]

I'm gonna shoot you over a PM, TomTom. I feel that I can--once again--identify with you and I'm curious to see if maybe my own theories on myself may help you out in your own things on yourself. :hugs:

P.S. I'm glad you're not dead.


Great new avatar, Ze! Snappy pic!

Why thank you! :)