Pronoun question

[Marla GG]

Hi girls,

Could I ask you all how you feel about something?

I am very aware, and have been for years, that the proper way to refer to transgendered people--including crossdressers--is according to the gender they outwardly present. I would assume that this also holds true for the gender they feel they are inside, regardless of how they look. I always use female pronouns ("she," "her") when talking about the members of this forum, unless they indicate a different preference.

But you may have noticed that I call my husband Angel "he" when I write about him in my posts. Angel and I discussed this before I started posting here, and he told me that the male pronoun was the one that felt right to him in most circumstances. I find myself naturally using feminine pronouns when Angel is fully dressed, but only then. When I see Angel en femme, I see her as a woman, I relate to her as a woman, and I fully accept her as a feminine being. But she is still Angel. That is one reason why we like Angels' unisex nickname--it works for both genders and doesn't require Angel to become someone else when dressed. There is an analogy that I like to use: you know how computer software comes in different versions, one for Macintosh and one for PC? Well, Angel comes in different versions, a male one and a female one, but the product is essentially the same. Only the interface is different.

Angel is not a manly man at any time, but he still identifies his default gender as male, and so do I. So when I talk about him in a general context, we both prefer that I use male pronouns. I explained that in my first post here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=139451&postcount=20

So, here is my question: I have told you what our personal preference is and why. But leaving that aside for the moment, would you prefer that I use female pronouns to refer to Angel on this forum? Does it rub you the wrong way when you see "he" in my posts? Does it make me seem less accepting? Does it offend you? As I said, I always use "she" and "her" when talking about the other members here, but I have wondered if making an exception for my husband was incorrect etiquette.

Today, in a reply to a new member who is the wife of a crossdresser, foxylady, Sharon seemed to be gently correcting her use of "he":


Just keep in mind that while your SO is exploring her (yes, that's how we refer to ourselves here -- the pronoun matches our appearance) femininity and testing the limits of her desires and/or needs, you need to do the same.

Great post by the way, Sharon, but it made me feel guilty--and perhaps rightly so--about my own male pronoun usage.

To be honest, I am pretty well convinced that switching to female pronouns in my posts here is the right thing to do, and I will probably start doing it. For one thing, I guess I should be setting a good example for others to follow. For another thing, I don't want to keep having to explain myself!

I would never forgive myself if I offended any of the gals here. Please believe that I want to support you in any way I can.

[Jonien]

Your apolagy is not exeptabe as it is not needed, you speak from the heart that is what matters

[Wendy me]

i have no prefrence as to how you do it and i think we all here read your posts and can if you will play along at home .... that is to say we understand what your saying.....

[CharleneCD]

I will be honest Marla, I have never noticed what pronoun you used when refering to Angel. What I have noticed is the love you two share with each other. That is the most important thing. So I must agree with Jonian, no appology needed.

[Billi49504]

That's between you and Angel. None of my business. But thanks for asking.

[Stephenie]

If Angel like the male pronoun then that is what you should use. You are talking about him. Besides anyone who reads more than one of your posts would know how much you love Angel and care about him. I would think that his wishes are the most important ones in this regards.

[Jenny Beth]

I am certainly not offended and as others have said you should do what is comfortable for both of you.

[Paula Rae]

Hey Marla,

I see no need for you to change your use of the pronouns or anything else in your posts, you always come across loud and clear, all of your posts have been excellent in quality, clarity and understanding.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Ricki B

[tifftg]

I will be honest Marla, I have never noticed what pronoun you used when refering to Angel. What I have noticed is the love you two share with each other. That is the most important thing. So I must agree with Jonian, no appology needed.


The most important thing is the love and support you are showing to Angel and this community.

thanks so much

Hugs,

tiff :hugs:

[Stephanie Brooks]

Marla,

I'd say it is unanimous. Use whatever you wish! Just be yourself. ^_^

[Khriss]

hmm- I've been called 'worse' - though as "Beavis" might say- " Thank You, for You're Concern"!! You are unique, as gg's go though,, not to worry- eh?? we're wishing we were Angel- cuz - (dreams can come true- W.E. Disney)again- not to worry- eh!? xx"K"

[Priscilla1018]

Marla,

No apology needed.I read your posts and have never noticed that you refer to Angel as he;I am more interested in what you have to say.

[Deborah]

I think it should be up to what you two want. We are just people you many never meet ,but you two have to live together. ;)

[carson]

Hi Marla,

I certainly can't speak for everyone on the forum, but here's my take on your quiry. As for me, I am happy and comfortable with you using feminine pronouns in addressing Carson. Carson is a female persona and wants to be treated as a woman. As for your husband, I don't think the choice of what is proper lies with the members of the forum but with what your husband is comfortable using. We are all at different mental, emotional and psychological stages of our crossdressing exploration so my feeling is that you and Angel should be able to use whatever fits best to identify his/her persona at any point in time.

[Julie]

Marla,

If I ever noticed your pronoun usage (and I didn't) I would have figured that was something you and Angel had agreed on as you don't seem the type to ignore your spouse's feelings. That's something between the two of you and it affects me in no way. So do whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

That brings up an interesting thing I discovered about myself. A GG I know who I met dressed, and for several months only knew me dressed, would always call me Julie or use female pronouns. Then she saw me en drab a few times and started calling me Jim or using male pronouns regardless how I was dressed. That bothered me. I told her that and to just to refer to me as Jules, which can me male or female. But what surprised me is I was really annoyed by the sudden change. I didn't want her to refer to me in the male form at all, regardless of how I was dressed. Recently she introduced me to some of her friends while dressed and she called me Jim then went on with an explanation, "He prefers to be called Julie when he's dressed." I was ticked off! :mad: Just writing this makes me upset she would do that. My reaction really caught me me off guard as I never would have expected to feel so strongly about this.

With people who don't know Julie, it never crosses my mind when they use male forms when addressing me or referring to me.

No wonder people are confused when I try to explain this to them! :duh:

[Sharon]

Today, in a reply to a new member who is the wife of a crossdresser, foxylady, Sharon seemed to be gently correcting her use of "he":



Great post by the way, Sharon, but it made me feel guilty--and perhaps rightly so--about my own male pronoun usage.

To be honest, I am pretty well convinced that switching to female pronouns in my posts here is the right thing to do, and I will probably start doing it. For one thing, I guess I should be setting a good example for others to follow. For another thing, I don't want to keep having to explain myself!

I would never forgive myself if I offended any of the gals here. Please believe that I want to support you in any way I can.

Marla,
I was only explaining my use of the feminine pronoun. I fully understand and accept your (and other GG's) use of the male pronoun.

There's also a strange phenomenon even amongst ourselves, or at least of those I have personal contact with. Here on the forum and on IM (Instant Messenger) we refer to one another by our female names and the associated pronouns. But on the telephone, we always go by our male names and pronouns.

Back on point though, I don't expect a wife to suddenly begin referring to her husband as "she" or "her." Life's confusing enough. :)

Sharon

[Marla GG]

Thank you all so much for being so understanding.

As I said, I do think of Angel as "she" when completely dressed, but most of the time on this forum I find myself talking about Angel in a general way, and not specifically about Angel en femme. "He" just feels more appropriate in that context. But I want you to understand that I never treat Angel like a guy in a dress! I always acknowledge the gender that Angel is expressing at any given moment.

I have given this a lot of thought and I still feel that since Angel and I are members of a community here, we should follow the conventions of the rest of the community. It's common courtesy, and it helps to prevent misunderstandings. Or to look at it another way, Angel is always en femme as far as this forum is concerned (if avatars and profile pictures are anything to go by), so while we're here, we'll both be girls :)

I have received a couple of polite PMs about this since I joined, and I just don't want it to become an issue, especially with any new members who don't know us. I also don't want people to make the assumption that I am still in the early stages of my development as a supportive spouse. I knew Angel was transgendered from day one of our relationship, and I actually wanted a relationship with a crossdresser. We began negotiating the issue of femme names and pronouns very early on. We used to call Angel's femme self "Richelle," the female version of his birth name. But we just don't see the need for that anymore, as Angel's male and female spirits have become more and more integrated. So.....he, she.....it doesn't matter all that much to us. We know who we are, and we just try to keep it real and love each other.

I hope Angel will chime in on this thread when she gets home from work! :)

Thanks again everyone....I love this place.

[Tristen Cox]

What I prefer to be called here is she or her, of course that's me. What you call Angel is perfectly fine, that is your choice. Maybe we should ask if she/he prefers to be called she or he? ;)

[StephanieCD]

I prefer to be called "he" in the real world - there's no getting around it ;) But then again I'm not a tg. I think in the case where an SO is concerned I would expect it'd be more comfortable to refer to the crossdresser as a he - because of gender roles within the relationship blah blah blah - but every relationship is different.

As far as rubbing me the wrong way goes... any way Marla rubbed me would be perfect acceptable! Crap! I said that - I mean... you can call Angel "noodles" for all I care as long as you two are happy with it!

:hiding:

[Julie York]

Hi Marla,
I think there's a general understanding that this is a land of "pretend" so when you are addressing the other fantasyland players it is "she". When you are on the GG forum then I presume it is probably 'he' because you aren't in the game at that time.

To be honest sometimes I look at the screen when someone calls me 'she' and think..."Who's that then?" before I snap back into the game.

[Ariel]

What you call your SO is up to the two of you. If both of you are happy with he, then "don't worry, be happy", everyone else will have to figure it out on their own.

Hugs
Ariel

[Holly]

Marla,

Anyone who has been here longer that 10 minutes will KNOW that you and Angel have a loving, committed, and very special relationship. I'll bet s/he just melts inside, no matter what pronoun you use... My greatest hope would be that both of you feel the freedom here to call yourselves by whatever makes you both comfirtable and secure. This would become a sad place indeed, if we become consumed with being "politically correct." Isn't that the attitude we're trying to overcome? Be yourselves... you're family, here.

[DragonLotus]

This thread reminds me of a question I've been having but was hesitant to address. I hope it doesn't sound too corny or trite:

A lot of the time when I'm talking to friends, I'll refer to them as "you guys" regardless of the gender mix. "You guys crack me up" "Hey I missed you guys!" etc etc

Would this sort of generality be considered offensive because I'm not using "girls", "ladies" or the like?

I don't mean to sound ignorant, I was just thinking about it because I don't want to commit a faux pas. I see the emotional IQ here is very high and both admire and respect the hell out of that. :D

[Tristen Cox]

I think most of us would be more inclined to respond to "you girls" as in "you girls are nuckin futz" :p

[DragonLotus]

Then I'm glad I asked because as a bit of a tomboy, everybody seems like "you guys" to me!

hehehe

[ChristineRenee]

I think that it is sweet of you Marla to show your concern for how you refer to Angel here on the forum. Myself...I would be shocked if my wife referred to me as her or she, or Chrissie or Christine, as she looks at it as someone completely separate from me. As long as you and Angel are comfortable with how you refer to Angel on the forum, it will be comfortable with us as well!:hugs:

Love,
Chrissie:)

[Khriss]

It's "Mistress" to You!! And don't forget IT!! or punishment will ensue- Sooo--

oops- wrong site-

( hiding paddle now, thigh high boots remain but :eek: , sorry-hehe)

[Rachel Morley]

Well, I guess I should respond as this is (in part) about me/us.

(sigh).....I find this whole thing rather complicated because I don't ever really think about it. Maybe I'm different but to me I am Angel, I'm not really anything except myself (if that makes any sense). Personally, I don't take the pronoun thing seriously at all.

I've never felt offended or even slightly put off at whatever I am called, especially when it's Marla that is doing the calling. There is nothing she could do that I would find objectionable.

To be honest, the only time I would have a preference is if we were out en femme somewhere and she had to refer to me in front of a stranger, then I would obviously prefer to be referred to as "she" because of the way I would be dressed.

As far as the forum goes, as I have already said, for myself I don't care.....just please be nice to my wife!

What?...I still haven't answered the question? Ok, Marla darling, I'll be a "she" if you like.

[emmicd]

You should address your SO in your writing as you feel most comfortable with. You already indicated that when your SO, Angel, is dressed en femme that you refer to Angel as she. That is because you recognize the true femme side and that is great!

My self personally I like being referred to as she when dressed en femme or on this website and he when at home with my wife and son and at work.

Thank you for your courtesy and there is no need for appology.

Emmi

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

I don't care one way or another how people refer to each other or to me. Call me a she or her if you so please.

But if you ask me, I will say I'm a he or him, and refer to people as they were born for simplicity's sake.

But you'll notice I have never called anyone here a he or a she. I try to keep away from that particular set of labels.

[Sara Kat]

I really don't care what label you use for me...

He...She...It...Thing...Crossdresser...Tranny...Sh emale...****...*****...Bitch...Slag...Wench...

(I'm kinda partial to "****" and "wench" though. :o )

[FionaAlexis]

No. I think you should do what's comfortable for you.

I actually still find it a little bit weird that TGs and their GG partners are active members of the same forum. Nothing wrong with it and good on you - I just find it weird. And for a wife to use 'she' and 'her' - I think that could be uncomfortable - well it makes me feel uncomfortable just thinking about it.

Mind you, normally I'm very much into treating people as they present - if you're presenting as a female then 'she' and 'her' is a must.

Fiona xx

[Khriss]

just a thought- I remember an ol' saying- "call Me anything You like! just never call Me late for supper" hehe,,, I resemble that remark- xxx"K"

[Tristen Cox]

I really don't care what label you use for me...

He...She...It...Thing...Crossdresser...Tranny...Sh emale...****...*****...Bitch...Slag...Wench...

(I'm kinda partial to "****" and "wench" though. :o )
Go figure :rolleyes:

[DragonLotus]

It's "Mistress" to You!! And don't forget IT!! or punishment will ensue- Sooo--

oops- wrong site-

( hiding paddle now, thigh high boots remain but :eek: , sorry-hehe)

Paddles? To punish me? haha! I scoff. :p


.....and yet I somehow feel strangely intrigued! lol

;)

[liz lesbow]

to each his/her own. you can call me Liz

[StephanieCD]

to each his/her own. you can call me Liz


Don't you mean "to each HER own"?

BWHAHAHAHAHAAA!