Crossdressing to possibly become a mental disease!

[Empress Lainie]

I read in a post somewhere else that two doctors are trying to get crossdressing`declared as transvestism, a mental disease for the new DSM V.

I thought we had gone far beyond that. These psychos actually want everyone to need their so-called "therapy".

Perhaps they are also going to revert to gays and lesbians also being mentally ill, too?

This is really frightening.

Bad enough that I have to consider that I have GID, a completely NON-disease.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Lainie-

Thank you, I recall seeing the same thing recently on another site I belong to. As I recall it was Dr who believes that it is a disorder especially in adolescents and children and that it can be "cured", whatever that may mean. I'll do some more research on it myself, but I'm betting Batty is up to date on it as she is with so many things that touch on TG issues. Yoo-hoo, Batty, dear, are there?

I do think it's very frightening and goes hand in hand with the belief that being gay or lesbian is some sort of disease that not only can be treated but should be treated. For years, the working definition of a disorder was something that caused a problem in your life. That caused distress for you in your personal life and how it related to your family and work environment. If GID is proclaimed to be a disorder, especially for someone who has not achieved their majority, then they can subjected to treatment even against their own will.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[RachelZ]

Propaganda... They won't rest until everyone is on perscription drugs or in therapy.

[Josie M]

I remember the idea of classifying "gender dysphoria" as a mental illness coming up a few years ago. One of the implications that came up is that it could then be argued that SRS and cost associated with transitioning should be covered under health insurance assuming the person was diagnosed as trans-gendered.

My guess is that politicians would be slow to vote for it...you'd have a better chance of getting health insurance to cover Viagra.:D

[Nessa88]

Link to this Article?

This doctor sounds like a closet queen himself.

[NathalieX66]

DSM IV lists Transvestic fetishism ( a paraphilia) as a mental disorder *ONLY* if it includes risky or harmful behavior (I forgot how exactly it's worded). Transvestic fetishism, by itself, is not considered mental illness. Google & find the rest (you won't be dissapointed).....I'm too tired to dig it up.
However, I would assume that in some cases, there is an additional layer of obssessive/compulsive disorder on top of the urge to crossdress.....not everybody, just a few. Think about the behaviour of people with gambling addictions.

Rachel the Rocker wrote:
Propaganda... They won't rest until everyone is on perscription drugs or in therapy. ....and that is exactly how I see it.

[Lisa Catherine]

Sounds like another "Piled-higher-and-Deeper" (PhD) with too much time on his hands and a control fixation!:Angry3:

[dawnmarrie1961]

Personally I agree with the doctors. If someone is dressing with "Crosses" they have a severe mental and extreme religious problem. :devil:

[Cheshire Gummi]

Ever heard of Anjem Choudary? He's a fruitnoodle over there in the UK who demands that homosexuals be stoned to death in the streets and that people who partake of alcohol be flogged.

Now, he is a Muslim preacher and not a doctor, but it's still the same principle. Just some bigot standing on his soapbox and telling people that have nothing wrong with them that they're corrupted because *insert rationalization here*. Sure, they gather crowds and attention, but usually just because they're so polarizing and wrong that people want to hear what they have to say so they can feel reassured that their beliefs are the right ones.

To put it another way, it will never fly. It's a medieval and barbaric notion that we're "diseased."

[Serena]

Hard to say. Mental illnesses kind of go along with society. Every time they update the big book of mental diseases, it has a factor in it. For example: homosexualism used to be a mental disease, but society has gradually been more accepting. While I wouldn't put it past people to consider crossdressing a mental disease, since it is becoming more accepted every day, it will most likely not fly.

[Persephone]

R. D. Laing, the well-known Scottish psychiatrist argued that insanity (particularly schizophrenia) was a sane response to an insane society.

[allisonrn06]

It was my understanding that at one time crossdressing was considered a disorder, but in recent years this was no longer the case, and that if one were to go for counseling, they would not be treat you for CD'ing but for any problems arising from, it eg: depression,marital problems, etc. I know that when I took a psychology course a few years back they said that homosexuality had been removed from the DSM as a disorder, don't know why they'd be backtracking on crossdressing, especially since psychology in general seeems to be an open minded profession. (or at least pretends to be)

[Mya Summers]

Just another way for the governments to try and control our every move, and tell us who we are :Angry3: they can kiss my A$$

[PaulaJaneThomas]

In the UK we view things differently. Here the D in GID stands for Dysphoria not Disorder. It's a big difference. As for the wider trans community, I've yet to find any meaningful research which adds anything to Hershfeld's efforts. Any dual-role gender variant person who ends up needing psychiatric care is likely to have mental issues separate from their gender identity and so are not representative of the wider trans community. But for anyone who wants to stigmatise trans people rather than understand them those patients make very good ammunition.

[I AM Medoro]

Just wish to say that if society will just let me be who I am with out pointing fingers, laughing, or coming up with these sarcastic phrases I would be the happiest man/woman that ever lived.
I am not looking to be transgendered. I just love to sit back at times and put a comfortable dress on, a silky slip under garmet and my flats.l
I would love to go shopping for dresses and be able to try them on before purchasing them. No can do.
Some day this clothing thing will come to pass with our redicoulis rules and we can become who we really are!

MEDORO :love::love::love:

[cindyscute]

Everything is a disease today that requires medication or therapy. It's just another way the medical industry can get more cashflow. They don't care about you only your dollars. See how far you can get without insurance. I had a friend that died that they refused to treat because he didn't have health insurance. When he finally got it he died two months later. Pretty soon opening your eyes in the morning will be a disease. :angry:

[Laura_Stephens]

DSM III also lists "Transvestic fetishism" as a mental illness.

[Nicole Erin]

Propaganda... They won't rest until everyone is on perscription drugs or in therapy.
Yeah no shit, kind of for the same reason anyone of any profession tells you something is wrong with your body, mind, car, finances, neighborhood, electrical, kitchen sink, etc...

Look on the birght side folks - if GID is listed as a disorder or whatever, maybe it would be easier for TS to get on HRT and all that. Maybe insucrance would pick up parts of the bill.

[Rachel Morley]

Any dual-role gender variant person who ends up needing psychiatric care is likely to have mental issues separate from their gender identity and so are not representative of the wider trans community. But for anyone who wants to stigmatise trans people rather than understand them those patients make very good ammunition.
Exactly! .... I totally agree with Paula's comment. :thumbsup:

[LaceyMay]

I would love to go shopping for dresses and be able to try them on before purchasing them. No can do.

MEDORO :

Why can't you try them on in the store? I do all the time now.
The only thing that was stopping me before, was my fear of other peoples reactions. Ends up that most SA's are more then willing to help me when I shop. I actually have had all the staff of a store drop everything just to help little ole me..lol

Remember they are strangers, who cares what they think.
Also it is easier to buy it once knowing it fits. Instead of returning somethings over and over until you get the right size or fit.

Sorry for the mini rant.

Hugs
Lacey May :)

[Jodi]

DSM III also lists "Transvestic fetishism" as a mental illness.

Yes Laura. The DSM III did have it listed as a mental disorder. THe DSM III is now gone. The DSM IV-TR is the bible today.

It is interesting to note that what had held up the final publishing of the DSM IV was that certain factions wanted PMS listed as a mental disorder. It might have sounded good at the time, but when it was analyzed and studied, the overall ramifications on the medical profession, employers, and possible disability claims finally nixed it.

[KiraJ]

A person who cross dresses becomes mentally disturbed not because he/she cross dresses, but rather because of the reactions of people around him/her to cross dressing. The people who over-react negatively to cross dressers are the ones who have a mental disease. A cross dresser wearing clothes that someone does not consider appropriate has zero effect on the existence of that someone, hence any negative reaction by that someone indicates inability for reasonable judgment and mental instability.

[Vickii*]

Relax. I don't think anyone should be frightened over this. It's all he-say-she-say right now.

Everyone thinks doctors are out to get them.

[Samantha B L]

I've been to psychiatrists and I've been prescribed medications for reasons having nothing to do TG/TS/CD or LGBT concerns. Most doctors and therapists nowadays don't consider those things to be mental illness but there are quite a few who won't discuss that stuff at length because talk about "dressing in drag" grosses them out. Lainie,it sounds like these two doctors are trying to make as much money as they can on publishing and on the lecture circuit before someone denouces their ridiculous ideas and they have to get off the gravy train. Any psychiatrist or phd psychologist will tell you that every year unknown mental health professionals anounce all sorts of quack cures and silly theories.

[Empress Lainie]

I remember the idea of classifying "gender dysphoria" as a mental illness coming up a few years ago. One of the implications that came up is that it could then be argued that SRS and cost associated with transitioning should be covered under health insurance assuming the person was diagnosed as trans-gendered.

My guess is that politicians would be slow to vote for it...you'd have a better chance of getting health insurance to cover Viagra.:D

But health insurance and medicare DO cover viagra and equivalent drugs. BUT IT DOES NOT cover SRS, rarely HRT,
my estrace is covered though.

[veryinn]

Homosexuality was once considered a disease, why don't the psychiatrists try to provide remedy for that group?

If crossdressing were such mental disease, then half of Japan's male population would be consider infected.

[cindychan]

Well its just two doctors saying that. Besides many studies have shown there are physical differences between Cd and non Cds.

[madison lee]

Relax. I don't think anyone should be frightened over this. It's all he-say-she-say right now.

Everyone thinks doctors are out to get them.

Thats not true! The voices in my head said they ARE out to get me! A straight jacket might be ok as long as it was pink.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Diagnostic Criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

It's Part B that's the problem. Happy crosdressers -Good. Unhappy crosdressers - have a mental disease (according to DSM IV).

So crossdress and be happy. I do.

[veryinn]

I disagree with that definition, wiki definition makes better sense:

Transvestic fetishism refers specifically to cross-dressing; sexual arousal in response to individual garments is fetishism.[1] Transvestic fetishism can occur with or without gender dysphoria[1]; that is, there are people who experience sexual arousal with cross-dressing and want to become the other sex, and there are there are people who experience sexual arousal with cross-dressing but do not want to become the other sex.

Some male transvestic fetishists collect women's clothing, e.g. nightgowns, babydolls, slips, and other types of nightwear, lingerie, stockings and pantyhose, items of a distinct feminine look and feel. They may dress in these feminine garments and take photographs of themselves while living out their secret fantasies.

[NathalieX66]

if crossdressing was such a mental illness, then maybe one solution is to have society convert to Chinese Maoist style of dress: men & women wear the same exact clothing....no individual style whatsoever. We would all look like Chinese communists. That would solve all psychiatric, and moral dilemmas!

(btw, no one in China dresses like that anymore these days, except for the elderly population, that concept has since faded away ...I've been there a couple of times!)

A few thousand years ago , there was no such thing as fabric, or looms to make the fabric . People would have had to wear animal skins. Are you telling me that how an animal skin is cut and worn is going to determine one's gender role in society? Women didn't shave their legs because there were no razors. Jumping back to modern times, The whole concept of women's fashion (nylon hose high heel shoes, etc) is based on what makes women look attractive to men. Thus the fashion industry is born.

[Kristy 56]

Then maybe we should all file for a disability with Social Security.

[Kristen-Gaye]

Just when you get comfortable with who & what you are, a couple of quacks tell me I'm mentally ill!! I think I'll buy some new heels to cheer myself up! :tongueout

[Sarah-RT]

personally speaking, obviously a CDer here, otherwise i wouldnt be here now would i? lol

but id class CDing etc as a mental disorder.

many people get stressed and confused upon their realisation of CDing? it can cause problems or issues.
it is not 'Generally' speaking the average norm ( please dont say ''who is to say what the norm is ) and it can change from pleasure ( sexual ) Cding to comfort CDing.

I dont like to say it but i would consider it a little bit of a mental issue to be honest.

I dont mean to cause offense to anyone, apologies if so.

[Kristen-Gaye]

No offence taken but there is a difference between a mental issue & a mental disease. When I play golf & continually miss 3ft putts, that's a mental issue! I think it's widely regarded that CDing is well within acceptable parameters of human behavier. :)

[tammygurl86]

Hopefully it becomes a disease, then maybe I can get some consistent pot.

[jazmine]

I heard that in the DSM VI, it will state that being human is, not only a disease, but a fatal one! Oh dear, when will the madness end!

[kellycan27]

How many of you would plead insanity, because you're simply crazy about crossdressing? :hugs:

Kelly

[NathalieX66]

I heard that in the DSM VI, it will state that being human is, not only a disease, but a fatal one! Oh dear, when will the madness end!

Are you confusing that with the Bible? My understanding
(ignorant as it is) that we are all born as "inherent sinners"...Book of Genesis...Adam & Eve....forbidden fruit.........

[dawnmarrie1961]

Nathalie, I don't think that Jazmine's reference to DSM VI is to the bible. It is to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Sixth Edition (DSM-VI).

[tammygurl86]

I think we should really fight this. It's simply not true that it's a disorder that threatens the person who has it.

[NathalieX66]

Nathalie, I don't think that Jazmine's reference to DSM VI is to the bible. It is to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Sixth Edition (DSM-VI).

I know...I already read it..the DSM-IV, that is . :thumbsup:...however not VI.
All I know that after judgement day comes, there's gonna be one helluva party in my corner of Hell, and you're all invited!

[dawnmarrie1961]

Nathalie, not everything needs to become a biblical argument. Belief is matter of personal preference. I respect yours. You need to respect ours, no matter what that may be.

So lets stop the rhetoric now before it gets out of hand.
Please.

[Gabie]

Everyone use the psycheatrist as a reference for mental "rigthness" in our modern society... but, remember the more your crazy and sick the more you ough to be a good psycheatrist (true and tested fact sadly), so everyone is sick and everyone should consult... or live your live and don't worry, being perfect will soon be an illness anyway

[Laura_Stephens]

BTW,the "nuttiest" people I have ever met was when I was in college. They have a name for them. They are called "phsyc professors".

[MarinaTwelve200]

Well, obviously, the person who is proposing to do this, does not know what he/she is talking about.

Crossdressing is merely a SYMPTOM associated with SEVERAL often unrelated conditions ("diseases") rather than a condition/"disease" in its own right.

It makes as much sense to call a "FEVER" a "disease" it too being only a symptom of many, many other conditions.

Note i use the term "Condidtion" rather than 'disease", as who is to say what defines a "disease".

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I read in a post somewhere else that two doctors are trying to get crossdressing`declared as transvestism, a mental disease for the new DSM V...

I do not believe that will happen.

There will always be people who hate us and want us to go away or change (ie: pretend to not be ourselves). Some of these people will be doctors and mental health professionals. Haters come in all forms.

Crossdressing/transgenderism is not a mental illness and MOST mental health experts know that. My psychiatrist, who has nearly 40 years in the field, treats the whole thing as a complexity, not NOT an abnormality. It is a complexity, as he puts it, because of how society screws with our minds.

Crossdressing is NOT a mental illness (http://www.mycdlife.com/2009/06/crossdressing-myth-4-it-is-a-mental-illness) and it's not going to be proven as one.

Many years ago, being left-handed was something they tried to "correct". All it did was leave a bunch of lefties with very poor handwriting skills and some terrible memories. Those who tried to "correct" lefties were also considered "experts". This will all get looked at like some big joke in the future... the so called "expects" who say crossdressing is a mental illness, that is.

Haters are a dime a dozen. They'll never go away. Neither will we... nor will the truth.

I've enjoyed meeting plenty of intelligent crossdressers in my online adventures. Didn't see a hint of mental illness in any of them. I'm pretty sure non-crossdressers will notice the same. ;)

[Pauline Lauren]

In the UK we view things differently. Here the D in GID stands for Dysphoria not Disorder. It's a big difference. As for the wider trans community, I've yet to find any meaningful research which adds anything to Hershfeld's efforts. Any dual-role gender variant person who ends up needing psychiatric care is likely to have mental issues separate from their gender identity and so are not representative of the wider trans community. But for anyone who wants to stigmatise trans people rather than understand them those patients make very good ammunition.

I have to agree with Rachel and PaulaJane here. History is replete with examples of "mainstream experts" marginalizing entire groups of people that do not fit the societal norms, even if they are not hurting anyone else. In more distant history this role was filled by religious authority figures "demonizing" certain behaviors by saying they reflected evil or satanistic infuences. Now, of course, this is done by people with lots of degrees describing those practicing otherwise harmless behaviors as being mentally ill. What better way to marginalize all CDers by saying they all have a "mental disorder".

I have stated on this forum before that the problem with crossdressing is not with the individual that practices it, but rather with the society that imposes its penalties on those individuals for breaking societal gender norms. After all, we are talking about clothes and appearance here, something which is only harmful to the extent that society is unwilling to accept differences in individual taste that go beyond certain boundaries.

At one time not long ago, it was considered "unacceptable" by society for GG's to wear pants and other "masculine" apparel. I would be willing to guess (although I do not have any information to prove it) that some crackpot with an MD or PhD after their name would have tried to label this a "mental disorder" as well.

Anyway, just my :2c: worth on this issue!

>>>hugs<<<
Pauline

[Ayame]

I read in a post somewhere else that two doctors are trying to get crossdressing`declared as transvestism, a mental disease for the new DSM V.
.


Two doctors being opposed to what I do I could care less. Once I become a doctor that will be one more in favor of it not being a mental disease. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They feel we have mental issues well I feel they do to. :tongueout

[Empress Lainie]

Relax. I don't think anyone should be frightened over this. It's all he-say-she-say right now.

Everyone thinks doctors are out to get them.

Of course they are. I have seen it time and again. Its all about money not your best interest (well maybe most of the time, there are exceptions)


Well its just two doctors saying that. Besides many studies have shown there are physical differences between Cd and non Cds.

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of that but I had read of physical differences between "normal men" and homo men, and also between "normal men" and transwomen in the hypothalamus I think I recall. I would assume the same applies to ftm's too, but never saw any such references.


I heard that in the DSM VI, it will state that being human is, not only a disease, but a fatal one! Oh dear, when will the madness end!

Then their real secret goal will be achieved - EVERYONE needs psychiatric therapy. Remember the 20's and 30's when all women were said to need psychoanalysis?


Everyone use the psychiatrist as a reference for mental "rightness" in our modern society... but, remember the more your crazy and sick the more you ought to be a good psychiatrist (true and tested fact sadly), so everyone is sick and everyone should consult... or live your live and don't worry, being perfect will soon be an illness anyway

Good point, I never met one that was "normal." They are all nuts and become psychiatrists so they can prove that everyone is nuts, and should be treated by them so they can line their pocketbooks. I read once that the rate of cure by psychiatrists was the same or less than counseling by a pastor. I believe it, even counseling with a friend should show the same results - unless your friend is nuts too. I had one that was going to "cure" celiac disease by psychiatric counseling at $125 per hour. I never paid him. It was for my poor wife afflicted with it. It took us years to discover what the problem was, no internet then.


BTW,the "nuttiest" people I have ever met was when I was in college. They have a name for them. They are called "psych professors".

I agree completely. I remember one that told me when studying Fraud (on purpose) that we didn't have to believe the material, just be able to pass the test.


Two doctors being opposed to what I do I could care less. Once I become a doctor that will be one more in favor of it not being a mental disease. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They feel we have mental issues well I feel they do to. :tongueout

Hurry up and get there sweety, we all need you desperately!

I thank all of you for your responses on this thread, they are heart warming.

[Ballerina]

The only way I would EVER consider crossdressing a "mental disorder/disease", is if it is fully damaging the person and the people around them.

Let's say someone is having conflicts with their male morals and their crossdressing side. It's fine and all, we all go through it. But, if that person is having severe break-downs and it is debilitating their entire life, then yes, that person should be seeing someone (on their own, not forced). That is when it becomes a disorder (dis-, order)

Or, taking it into another realm, let's say that someone is having sexual fantasies with crossdressing. Fine and dandy, we all go through it. But, if crossdressing is the only thing that makes them sexually climax, then they do need to see someone about it (on their own free will, not forced). That is also when it becomes a disorder (dis-, order).

Laws, rules, and regulations should NOT be pawns for others' disgust and/or opinions.

[Hope]

Diagnostic Criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

It's Part B that's the problem. Happy crosdressers -Good. Unhappy crosdressers - have a mental disease (according to DSM IV).

So crossdress and be happy. I do.

This is really much to do about nothing. What this says is that if you enjoy your crossdressing, you are not mentally ill.

This part B. comes from the attempt to define "normal" and "abnormal." Generally psychologists don't really care what you do, unless it bothers you enough to cause "significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

No one is being compelled to seek treatment for anything. But treatment is made available to those who need it.

While some folks might not like the idea, crossdressing is disturbing to many people who do it. Those folks should not be prevented from seeking help just because others think what getting help is "wrong."

This is essentially the same criteria used for almost every diagnosis. If you want help, it is available, if you don't want help - good for you, enjoy.

Now, getting bent out of shape about some of the treatment options presented by some ethically challenged doctors is pretty reasonable, but diagnostic criteria are not treatment options.

[Nadia-Maria]

You probably allude to Dr. Ray Blanchard (and colleagues), who is a key responsable for next planned DSM V.

If you want more info about next DSM revision, and Dr. Blanchard's theories, please browse this informed forum at crossdressers-forum.com, where I also incidentally posted this contribution of mine :

http://www.crossdressers-forum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11376&sid=88c6b662bf6aa13ca8b13acb10e143da

On my Flickr's forum there are also many information about the subject, but you can access it only by invitation.

[LisaElizabeth]

As with all specialists in healthcare, the supposed Mental Health Professionals... I use this term very loosly... Are trying to expand their area of influence.
Heck they added 'Headaches' to the list of Mental Disorders!!!
So-o-o anything they come up with will either be accepted or refuted. Crossdressing has been a mental disorder since the early 50's! The fact that it is still in the DSM is remarkable and shows that the editors are afraid that removing it will diminish their power in some way.
So-o-o as has been said before, go toa therapist that is 'T' friendly!
Lisa E

[Paula Siemen]

MY GOD!......Excuse me if that offends someone out there. Why can't we just accept each other as we are and live in peacefull coexisting lives? Why do we feel the need to change everyone else to our personal beliefs and attitudes? Liberal, leftist preach acceptance of all, and "let it be", but really are just as dictatorial as the conservative rightist who want to cram their morals and religion down everyone's throat.

Publically, I am a conservative, Christian, Crossdresser who believes in the freedom of all people to be themselves and make their own decisions as to their morality and socialability, so long as it does not contradict the Golden Rule or its ten corilaries. Just leave me to my own and don't be berating me for my attitudes because they are not your own.

We say we welcome diversity...unless its different from ourselves. What a bunch of HIPACRITs the world is made of. Personally, I want out.

[sherri52]

maybe the doctors should get thier own therapy

[Rachel Morley]

I'm finding this thread super interesting and I'm enjoying reading the posts :) I haven't got anything much to add except to say. I'm a happy cder. I wasn't always this way. I talked to someone (my wife) over about a 6 month period and she helped me to see that it's a very value-added part of my life because now I've pursued and embraced it more openly, I'm a way, way happier and more relaxed person than I've even been before in my entire life. If being a crossdresser makes me "mentally ill" than I want to be sick :D

[ifitfeelsgood]

Publish or perish is the rules in the health game. These guys have no real interest in the subject.

[Noxvictum]

Bah, they can call it whatever they want. Who's gonna notice if they do? America's too busy watching American Idol or whatever it is people watch on tv these days.

[Sammy777]

Wow, I can't believe this one is still going on.

Here is the short and sweet of modern health care.
At least in the US anyway - It all comes down to MONEY!!

Here is how it works -
Once the "Medical Professionals" Claim something is a "Condition" it is put in the medical books as such.

Once something is listed as a "Medical Condition"
it can NO LONGER - I repeat - NO LONGER -
be "cured" and/or "treated" by ANY over the counter medications.

"Medical Conditions" are classified as, but not limited to:
Ongoing/Persistant Conditions, Diseases and guess what - Mental Illnesses.

These "Medical Conditions" can only be Cured [ha ha, because when was the last time something was actually cured?] or Treated by PRESCRIPTION medication.

Do you see where this is going yet?????

Doctors suddenly call something a CONDITION.
Drug companies get to charge whatever to treat said condition.
Doctors get kickbacks from Drug companies.
Happy doctors start calling more everyday things "conditions"
Drug companies make more overpriced "treatments"
Rinse and repeat as necessary,
And they told two friends and so on and so on.

Look at any magazine or TV commercial these days....
Suddenly anything and everything that has or could ever go wrong with you has some fancy name [thank you marketing dept] and it is now a CONDITION.

BUT don't fear!!!!! Because we already have a drug standing by that will TREAT that CONDITION!!! Just stop by your doctor and ask for it.

Still don't want to believe yet????
There used to be 1 ONE thing wrong with you if you could not sleep at night - Imsomnia
But seeing how over the counter [cheap] drugs can cure that now.
They have come up with at least 20 different conditions [that all have there own prescription [expensive] drugs to treat them] that could now be wrong with you if you don't sleep at night.

I am not a crackpot, the proof is in the advertising.
No Aliens, spacecraft from planet 10 or any surrounding dimensions or persons living, dead, undead or of any astro or spiritual plain were harmed in the making of this post :lol2:

PS: If Doctors and Drug companies had there way --- Sneezing would be a condition and tissues would be only sold by prescription and cost 250.00 a box.

[Alexiax]

Could not agree more for sure. As is evidenced by the current admin wanting to control the lives and health of all americans!

[Kimmie]

I have no problem with this. Everybody thinks I'm crazy anyway. This would confirm it. Wahooooo!!!!!

Seriously though. Crossdressing can be argued as being not dissimilar to those who go to Reniesance fairs or Star Trek conventions. I doubt this is going to happen.

[Susan Dee]

I read in a post somewhere else that two doctors are trying to get crossdressing declared as transvestism, a mental disease for the new DSM V.

It's not just the current review of DSM - it's already here in ICD.

Sorry for the detail which follows, but it maybe could help to try and go through some of the terminology.

DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association. The current version is the 4th Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR).

DSM-V is currently in consultation, and is due for publication in 2012.

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) is the standard of the World Health Organization. This now in its 10th revision and is usually known as ICD-10.

ICD-10 has been used in England from 2001.

The US currently uses ICD-9-CM, with ICD-10 being scheduled for introduction from 2013. ICD-9-CM is based on the ICD-9 with a Clinical Modification to give more morbidity detail. It was produced by the US National Center for Health Statistics.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
DSM-IV-TR details
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In DSM-IV one specific section covers Sexual and Gender Identity Disorder.

The sub-set for Gender Indentity Disorder includes 302.85 - GID in adolescents or adults.

There is a subset for Paraphilias, a biomedical term used to describe sexual arousal to objects or situations that are not part of normative stimulation.

This subset includes 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism, which equates to F65.1 in ICD-10 (see below) but does not otherwise does not have a code to equate to the ICD-10 code F64.1 (see below).


Diagnostic Criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism -

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

It's Part B that's the problem. Happy Crossdressers - Good. Unhappy Crossdressers - have a mental disease


Just to show what nice people the medical profession thinks we are the subset also includes 302.84 Sexual Sadism and 302.2 Pedophilia.

Being gay was categorized in DSM-III, but was omitted from DSM-IV. It had removed been from DSM-II and replaced by the category Sexual Orientation Disturbance.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ICD-10 details
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In ICD-10 the Blocks F00 to F99 cover Mental and Behavioural Disorders. This block includes " conditions and behaviour patterns of clinical significance which tend to be persistent and appear to be the expression of the individual's characteristic lifestyle and mode of relating to himself or herself and others ".

- F64 categorises Gender Identity Disorders

F64.0 Transsexualism
" A desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by a sense of discomfort with, or inappropriateness of, one's anatomic sex, and a wish to have surgery and hormonal treatment to make one's body as congruent as possible with one's preferred sex. "

F64.1 Dual-role Transvestism
" The wearing of clothes of the opposite sex for part of the individual's existence in order to enjoy the temporary experience of membership of the opposite sex, but without any desire for a more permanent sex change or associated surgical reassignment, and without sexual excitement accompanying the cross-dressing. "
Excludes fetishistic transvestism ( F65.1 )

F64.2 is Gender identity disorder of childhood

- F65 categorises Disorders of Sexual Preference

F65.1 Fetishistic Transvestism
" The wearing of clothes of the opposite sex principally to obtain sexual excitement and to create the appearance of a person of the opposite sex. Fetishistic transvestism is distinguished from transsexual transvestism by its clear association with sexual arousal and the strong desire to remove the clothing once orgasm occurs and sexual arousal declines. It can occur as an earlier phase in the development of transsexualism. "

Just to show what nice people the medical profession thinks we are F65 includes F65.5 Sado Masochism and F65.4 Paedophilia.

- F66 categorises Psychological and Behavioural Disorders Associated with Sexual Development and Orientation, but specifically notes that Sexual Orientation by itself is not to be regarded as a disorder.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So what does this mean?

Although DSM refers to Crossdressing it lays stress on the negative aspects, and note in ICD-10 the use in both F64.1 and F65.1 of Transvestism with no distinction between the use of the same word. Note also the use of the word "lifestyle" in the ICD-10 descriptor.

Sorry, Paula but the UK does officially define GID as a Disorder, not Dysphoria.

In ICD-10 being gay is ok - by itself.

In F64.1 the words "to enjoy the temporary experience" seem to be very judgemental, and lacking in any sort of proper understanding of our feelings, what we are thinking and who we are. Where is any reference to the journey to accepting - and being comfortable with - who we are.

What about that need for us to be the whole person?

Where is the understanding - of us as individuals, or what this classification could do to us? How often do we hear the line from official agencies "if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear". How might this apply when the whole idea of what is "wrong" kicks in when you are labelled like this?

So I've got a Mental and/or Behavioural Disorder have I? Like ++++ I have. I'm me.

But on this forum I guess I'm in good company, with people who can really understand what's going on in my head. As for the medical experts, if they keep adding to the list of disorders soon there won't be any "normal" people left !

Susan

PS -
Q. how many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. it depends - does the light bulb really want to be changed....

[PetiteDuality]

Crossdressing to possibly become a mental disease!

I agree, those sick perverts travesties should be in an institution :chatterbox: :rolleyes:

[PaulaJaneThomas]

The only definition missing seems to be:

Psychiatrist: a low-life con merchant devoid of any basic human decency and committed to making large sums of money from others' misfortune.

[PetiteDuality]

The only definition missing seems to be:

Psychiatrist: a low-life con merchant devoid of any basic human decency and committed to making large sums of money from others' misfortune.

Yeah, I read that on Tom Cruise's dictionary :D

We can't just generalize.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

We can't just generalize.

They seem happy to. The fact is that most of psychiatry is mostly smoke and mirrors. There's no science or evidence behind a lot of what they claim and an increasing number of "psychiatric" conditions have been found to have a physiological basis. Schizophrenia is a good example of this. They're running out of disorders so they're probably creating new ones to stop the gravy train from drying up (they're only in it for the money!!!). Stigmatising people who exhibit behaviour which is within the norm for our species (such as non-hetrosexual sexual orientation or gender identity variance) as having a disorder smacks of the Nazis to me.

[Maddie22]

Wow, it seems like a lot of people in here are pretty upset about this. Did anyone ever think to look at the flip side of this?

Let say that this classificaition of crossdressing, tv, ts, tg ect... does actually come in to effect i the DSM.

We become a mental "Disorder"

Let's face it here people, we are not "Normal."
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, who is normal these days? Well society does dictate what is and what is normal. Is society ever right? No, not always. Some societies have allowed slaves, and have allowed genocide.

However, society has also made rules, such as it is not right to steal, and to murder.

Homesexuality used to be cosnsidered a desease or a disorder. However the psychiatric proffession has since then deemed it otherwise. Not only that, after LEARNING more about homosexuality, society has also come to be more accepting of homosexuality.

Homosexuality is still not the norm. Only 10% of society is homosexual.

What society has to understand is that just because something is not normal, does not mean it is bad.

The best thing for us to do to help ourselves, is to realize that WE ARE NOT normal. However we can help society understand, that what he do is non-hurtful to other people. That we are still human, and equal.

With that being said, we are classifing the WHOLE medical, and more specifical psychiatric field as money grubbing and judgmental. Are we not being hypocritcal, and judgmental towards them? We are steroetyping all of them into this one single category.

I have seen a counselor about my situation. It was through my university's counseling center. She was actually younger than me by a couple of years (Yes, I am a career college student, and she was on track for her PhD. Before I get my Bachelor's, which is besides the point) If anyone were to say to me that she was in it just for the money, I would have many words to tell you. She was as nice, and understanding, and wanting to help, and did research to help me out.

Classifing TG's is not a bad thing. Classifcation helps people learn and understand. None of us know why we do what we do. Some of do it for various reasons, some of us want to be more than just a CD.
If classifying us, can help the doctors and pyshicatrists to help us out more, then that is great. Perhaps classifying us, and understading what it is that makes us tick and triggers our feelings and behaviors can lead to society to be accepting of our differences.

However, if we want people to accept us, how dare us to generalize the entire proffession, who have been our biggest allies!

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Becca,

You're demonstrating the naivety of your youth. Left-handedness is not "normal" in the sense that the majority are not left-handed. Would you classify left-handedness as a disorder? Do you regard left-handed people as abnormal? Alternate sexual orientation and gender identity variance in males are of roughly the same order of magnitude of prevalence as left-handedness. To classify one as normal and another as abnormal is simply hypocritical prejudice.

[Maddie22]

Being left handed is not "normal"
If anything we are all being naive ourselfs. We seem to think that "Normal" is good and not being "Normal" is bad.
If we all get out of that mindset then I think we can understand that we are not "Normal"
For instance, I'm an above "Normal" male height of being 6'6''. Does this make it a bad thing? No, not at all, just means I am different.

Does some one who scores a 34 on the ACT count as being "Normal"?
No they do not, the are an exception to the rule. Is that a bad person for not being "Normal" No they are not.

You can also call it average if you would like. It is the same thing.

I think people here fail to realize that people are not born equal. There are different degrees of peoples intelligences. We need to realize that we are among the "Not Normal" or "Not average"

Maybe the TG community needs to stop being in Denial that we are not Normal, but it is OK to be "Not Normal" or "Not Average"

It is not hypocritical, it is being accepting of differences.

[Susan Dee]

Another issue is the more general one of labelling people.

Usually those who are labelled have no control over the label and how others may interpret it.

That sounds kind of deep - hope it makes sense!

[battybattybats]

Well its just two doctors saying that. Besides many studies have shown there are physical differences between Cd and non Cds.

Two Doctors in charge of defining Gender related and sexual related parts of the new DSM!!!!!

Dr Zucker (who uses psychological torture to try and 'cure' crossdressing kids so they turn out gay instead of becoming T.S.) is in charge of the comittee to define GID and Dr Blanchard (who claims we all either want to lure men into gay sex or we only want to have sex with ourselves based from all accounts by some interviews with some TGs he met in a bar once) is in charge of redefining sexual paraphilias ranging from pedophiles and necrophiles and bestialists to 'transvestic fetishism'.

And apparently so as to set up their favoured quakery of catagories of autoandrophiliacs, homosexual transsexuals and lets not forget totally pretending FtM guys don't exist they are redefining all the catagories, any crossdressing at all ever (by a male-bodied person) will appparently count as mental illness. Oh and Zucker is trying to push his reparative therapy for TG-kids too even though its been declared wrong and harmful for gays by the APA. Apparently this DSM may well come with treatment reccomendations as well as diagnostic criteria!

And while their claims are nonsense their power isn't. This is the DSM, used by G.P.'s, Psychiatrists, Insurance Companies and even Lawmakers to define what counts as what!

This isnt the only disaster in the upcoming DSM, people have quit in outrage over behind the scenes goings on, the authors of previous editions of the DSM have condemned the new anti-transparency secrecy rules and more.

We should be involved in fighting this! Getting Homosexuality out of the DSM was one of the biggest parts of moving Gays to social acceptance and equality.



Let's face it here people, we are not "Normal."

Actually we are normal. Normal is not just the middle of average. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM because a lot of Gay Psychiatrists came out and fought hard for it to be changed. Biologists will tell you that homosexuality is found in almost every sexually reproducing animal they have studied! They can even explain how its an evolutionary advantage to have Gay relatives (called Kin-Selection which for example makes Ants for example one of the most successful lifeforms ever!).

As for societies rules... Nope, only a small number of society make the rules, even in representative democracies. And throughout history those rules have been broken, shattered, defied and re-shaped by people with a superior understanding of right and wrong than the societies mores of the time.

I have met and am friends with some great psychologists, however the criticism of the whole field is apt as it is usually not sufficiently evidence-based so it's not a science like biology, which with the rise of FMRI is eatting away the field as neurobiology takes over much as with the telescope Astronomy took over from Astrology.

[Crysten]

Lets just call it what it is - people with a religious agenda and a PhD trying to put forth their idea of what's morally correct under the guise of science. Fortuantely, there are many physicians, psychologists, and therapists who can see through this crap and call it what it is - hate and elitism in the guise of research.

These are the people who should be driven forth and stoned to death, IMO.

If they're coming to get me, they're going to have to pry my lingerie outta my cold, dead hands, that's for sure. :)

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Actually we are normal. Normal is not just the middle of average.

Spot on :thumbsup:

[Maxi]

Society dictates fasion and style, led by Hollywood. The film industry has a lot of influence on poeple. Most box office hits are fiction, so society is basing their ideas of what is right on a ficticious role model. Now tell me who really needs therapy? WE do not let Hollywood dictate our lives, is why we are different, and society has issues with that.