Is Lying on Hot or Not Wrong?

[Kathi Lake]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

[Miranda09]

Naw...go for it girl. It;s just for fun anyway. I might try myself sometime.

[Kathi Lake]

Well, I did lie about just a few things - my age, my state, my gender, . . .

I didn't lie about my boobs though - they are spectacular! Even without showing much skin, I'm a 9. I guess it goes to show you that if you show a guy a fuzzy picture of someone vaguely female-shaped, their brains turn off and other parts turn on.

:)

Kathi

[MissConstrued]

As long as you lead by example... and teach your kids that it's okay for them to lie, too. I'm betting you don't.

:bigsmack:


That said... Hot or Not really should add another category... perhaps "Trannies" or "Unclassified." Maybe "Undecided?"

[queenie]

Who cares?! You look great in that picture! Not like you're leading them on and doing the bait and switch with the bait and tackle later on. Haha!

[Deb The Brunette]

Is your wife ok with it too?? ...Just asking


.

[pattyv]

Kathi- I consider myself a new member here. I have always considered your opinions up to now as having been well considered and balanced.How can you in all conscience expcect me to believe you ever again if you LIE?
Laura.

[kay_jessica]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

Kathi you look good.

I would have rated you, but you are sharing your link for meeting. To answer your question Is it wrong. Well here's my answer http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=RSEUEMO-ENY

[Lisa Golightly]

I never got the attraction of the site...

[swiss_susan]

I don't see the problem. People are rating what they see anyway not your information. Have fun.

[Sarah_new]

I agree with Swiss Susan, the voting is really about the picture and nothing else.

[NoraTV]

You are who you want to be.

That is what is important.

[Jeanna]

Well you are hot and Not! Not what people are expecting!
:2c:

[gender_blender]

I think that lying in general is wrong.

[Teri Jean]

I think you are very attractive but decieving people in this venue could backfire. If they where to find out your true gender the flack could be worse than the Dr.s visit.

Teri

[TSchapes]

This has been a venue for CDs and TG folk for some time. Kalina Isato (http://www.transvamp.com/) in one of her books recommends you use the site to get an honest assessment of your passability. I don't know about that, but it is fun to see what "sells".

As far a honesty goes, your are presenting as a woman, and since they have no category for that, you have to go with the closest value. The age thing is another story... :brolleyes:

-Tracy

[BeckiB]

There really isn't a category for us on Hot or Not so I think it kind of leaves it a little open. I also I am not sure it would qualify as a lie. You are presenting as female and as most here do you would use the gender you are presenting as. It is kind of a grey area I guess so get out your crayons and color it whatever color you want!!!

[Ricki S.]

Yes, lying is wrong. But in that respect aren't we all lying when we try to pass? As others noted it's all just for fun anyway. That site has to be the greatest time waster ever invented... worse than youtube, but fun.


.... If they where to find out your true gender the flack could be worse than the Dr.s visit....

I posted a pic there a few years ago, and after about a week, my profile (picture, whatever) was mysteriously removed. I emailed to ask why, but never received an answer, so I suspect someone reported me, but there were never any repercussions... have fun!

[Kimmy55]

I see no problem with it.When i take on-line surveys I register as female.

[LisaM]

I think lying is wrong.

That being said I don't find much use for "Hot or Not". It is extremely superficial and most people exaggerate (lie) in their ratings anyhow.

[Fondew2004]

9????????????????

Not on my Aunt Tilly's purple corset!

You're a 10 easy!!

At least I think so....

And I'm going to check out the site....I've never even heard of it!

[JaytoJillian]

just post your pic in the men's section ( I do) Most people will assume you meant for it to go in the female section. You'll get rated anyway. However, I don't consider it "lying." Afterall, as someone else mentioned, you are "presenting as female." A little different than letting some pook bloke believe you are a genetic female until the moment of truth, LoL.

[Dr.Susan]

I think it a bit of a lie, especially when purposely mated with a fuzzy picture. Plus you could of said at the end of your blurb that you are a CD.

[Jenny Brown]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH
Lying is wrong. period.
If you have zero integrity, live your life however you choose.

[Julogden]

I'm in favor of being honest in a situation like that and I don't understand why you'd want to misrepresent yourself. Lying has a way of catching up with you.

Carol

[Olivia]

Is Lying on Hot or Not Wrong?


Hot or Not? :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

No, you'd be the first one to do that!

Gotta love it!!! :) O

[dawnmarrie1961]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

Kati, You have to answer that question for yourself. How do you feel about it?

On the one hand you may have already answered you own question by seeking validation from others.

Be true to yourself. Do what you think is right.

[Shelby]

First of all, I would rate you as hot looking. I have always admired your looks. As for lying, aren't we doing in public anyways? When we go out shopping enfemme and buy something and we use our guy credit card or show our ID, we are lying. Just appearing as someone else and using a female name, we are lying. Keeping our interest in dressing from our friends and family, we are lying. Asking a complete stranger if you look hot without telling them your real gender isn't lying, just not giving them the full story.

[Nicole Erin]

kathi, is lieing wrong? Well perhaps...

But on sites like crossdressers.com, craigslist, not or not, facebook, myspace, etc etc... don't you think a LOT of people lie or stretch the truth with stories, photos, how well off they are, etc...?

So if you are lieing on the web, you are but a snowflake in an avalanche,


Hell, the fact that you posted your real photo makes you among one of the more honest trannies on the web.

[Parker0429]

As a woman and HOT.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Nicole, you have brought up an interesting point the creation of the internet has indeed allowed people to communicate with a certain amount of anonymity. One of the nice things about being anonymous it that it allows people to open up about anything without fear of repercussion. But with anonymity comes a certain amount of personal responsibility to be truthful.

Who decides what is true or not? Ultimately that burden rests on the individual.

Its all a matter of choice.

Nuff said.

[Kathi Lake]

Here's a bit more about why I said what I said on the site. Say, just for argument's sake, that you're a normal, red-blooded American male. You go to a site like, say, HotorNot.com. You see a picture of a woman on the screen and are asked to rate her. Your finger hovers over the button which represents your true opinion of their attractiveness. Suddenly, you notice that she's a he. . .

"Oh crap!! It's a guy! Dang perverts! What? There's no rating lower than a "1"? Damn."

All I was trying to do was get an honest rating - by being dishonest. Yes, I get the irony.

Obviously, I have been feeling a little conflicted about lying, which is why I posted here in the first place. Thank you so much for your replies. People bring up valid points on both sides of the issue.

On one side, people say that "aren't we lying when we go out dressed as the other sex?" Yes and no. We are presenting ourselves as another gender, but we aren't wearing a sign saying "Yes, I am a woman." When I go out, I dress as fully as possible for two reasons; so I will "blend in" as much as possible and therefore not be noticed as much, and my feminine pride in my appearance. I don't try to "fool" anyone. I am just being me. That, to me isn't lying.

On the other side, willfully misrepresenting yourself is - no matter what you call it - a lie. That is what I have felt bad about, and why I wanted your opinions here. Thanks for being honest (no pun intended) about how you felt. I agree and will change my profile to more accurately reflect my true status.

On KatieB's post, ewww! I was simply looking for an honest appraisal. I am definitely not looking to meet anyone. I have been the recipient of some of the most lame pickup lines I have ever heard! Some of these guys have no life, no tact, and no shame.


I would have rated you, but you are sharing your link for meeting.I shared my link for the Meet Me page because I didn't want ratings from you guys. I know how you feel. I didn't post here to say, "Hey everybody, look how cute I am! Go to this site and bump up my ratings!" I'm narcissistic and shallow, but not that shallow. :)

Kathi

[Bernice]

Kathy Lake, I'm not worried about you. It's obvious you have given this a lot of thought, and you have an open mind. I think most of us would (or have) posted there as how we present, without another thought.

Is it wrong? There have been many good arguments in support of what you and many others have done. Are these arguments (after the fact) merely rationalizations? Maybe. Is rationalizing wrong? My mother thought so. But then my mother was the unparalleled master of rationalizing, and she also thought crossdressing was sinful, and also though it was "just a phase of growing up". I'm not so sure I think rationalization is always wrong, especially if it helps you feel better about something that wouldn't bother most people anyway.

I pride myself on my rigid ethics, and have even been fired for refusing to lie (at employer request, when they even said they would fire me if I still refused to lie). Still, in this instance, I'm inclined to allow the exception, because there are no intended victims, and because any unintended victims may have had impure thoughts themselves. Believe me, me making an exception is really rare.

So, you've made us think, which causes us all to grow, and so you've done a good deed.

[TxKimberly]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

Hope not 'cause I did it a long time ago! lol

[Kathi Lake]

Well, if the lovely Kim has done it, wonder what took me so long! :)

Kathi

[TSchapes]

Crossdressers all conflicted on "lying" on "Hot or Not". You've got to be kidding right?

These same CD's that lie to their friends, neighbors, co-workers, and family members about being a crossdresser, and they are worried about people that spend less than one second appraising their looks? OMG That's just a hoot!

Look, "Hot or Not" is superficial. You are only putting a picture up there to compare your looks to other people comparing their looks.

It's a two-dimensional representation of a three dimensional person, that's inherently a lie!

"Hot or Not" discussions will bring up other nonsense too. Like, did you know you have to keep your picture up there for over 1,000 votes or it won't count in the eyes of your fellow CD'ers?

Kathi, you look darling on the "Hot or Not" site and don't think another thing about it. If you'd like a higher score (I can't sign in right now to the site so I have no idea what your score is), just smile and show some cleavage. That's just how shallow the site is...


Love, Tracy :hugs:

[Deetg]

Ferchrissakes!!!! LOL.... Its hot or not for crying out loud. Also as succicently said earlier, are we not "lying" when we drress to pass anyway? How many of those other Hot or Not entries have accurate numbers as to ages etc... anyway? I would guess a number of them. I would also speculate that Kathi is not a liar in the game of life.

[kellycan27]

:doh:Gimme a break, if you just posted your pic with the express intention of being rated..what's the harm? How many of you "lying is wrong" advocates have been truthful about what you do ...wives? SO's? employers?,friends and families? Or is that something totally different? I did it just for the fun of it, and I was quite surprised with the results. Kathi.... you do look "hot"!
Oh, and by the way... I lied and said I was a girl......sue me!

[KimberlyJo]

yes it is...that being said, I'm sure nobody here is ever completely honest in everything you do. We lie to ourselves and we lie to each other probably almost everyday.

Now to consciously DECEIVE the general internet public on Hot or Not FOR SHAME!! :rofl:

uh, no j/k who cares. If you're just throwing your pic up there to see how you rate as a female, so what, go ahead why not. I consider it curiosity, not lying per se.

However if your intention is to meet guys or girls this way (which I know in Kathi's case it isn't), then yeah its wrong.

[Ms Mira]

It's the internet...

Nothing's really wrong on the internet.

[Kathi Lake]

Kathi, you look darling on the "Hot or Not" site and don't think another thing about it. If you'd like a higher score (I can't sign in right now to the site so I have no idea what your score is), just smile and show some cleavage. That's just how shallow the site is...

Love, Tracy :hugs:Tracy, you are exactly right on the "ratings." I changed my description a few days ago when I realized that the ones being rated highest were showing the most boobage. Here is what it is now:

I've discovered the secret of high Hot or Not ratings - show your boobs! Well, that's not happening here. I'm much too shy for that (though I've been told they're spectacular!). . .

Kathi

[kellycan27]

I'm in favor of being honest in a situation like that and I don't understand why you'd want to misrepresent yourself. Lying has a way of catching up with you.

Carol

What situation is that? She simply posted a photo to see what feedback she would get. She isn't advertising or looking to meet someone. How many post photos here with for the same reasons? How many have the nerve to post on a site where they aren't going to get an automatic compliment just because they are a member? You want honesty...you want unbiased? Post your pic there..... Get off your high horses... it's doesn't mean a thing.

[sarahNZ]

dunno really

I admit I have a hot or not page and it is in the womens section but I did put that I am a cross dresser in my notes so ?!?

[kellycan27]

Kathi- I consider myself a new member here. I have always considered your opinions up to now as having been well considered and balanced.How can you in all conscience expcect me to believe you ever again if you LIE?
Laura.

I felt the same way when I found out that there was no Easter Bunny.... don't worry hun, you'll get over it.:hugs:

[Heather Daniels]

I see no harm in what you've done Kathi. It's hot or not for cryin out loud....it's just an internet game.

[Ralph]

Yes, lying is wrong. But in that respect aren't we all lying when we try to pass?
No argument here. But that's why I think we should NOT try to pass, unless we're going for full TS.

Getting back to the original question... on the one hand, I agree that lying is lying is lying, and if you start making excuses and exceptions you're just being a hypocrite... which pretty much includes all of us at one time or another. On the other hand, if you're just doing this for the ego boost - I guess I could consider it performance art, and nobody is harmed by voting for you under false pretenses. There is no prize money at stake; everybody wins. On the other other hand... that site is also used for matchmaking. The first thing I saw when I clicked on your link was the question whether I want to meet Kathi. If you decide to push it just a bit farther and see how well you "perform" in person, and a straight guy meets up with you... heaven help you when, not if, he finds out. I myself would beat some sense into you if I arranged a date thinking you had all the right plumbing and found out you were a guy.

So the short answer is: Wrong? Probably. Dangerous? You bet your bra strap it is, potentially fatal.

[Kathi Lake]

Ralph, as I told someone earlier, ewwwwwww!! Guys are hairy and smelly and gross - and I are one! :)

Ego boost/validation/semi-honest rating of my psuedo-attractiveness/what have you is all I'm going for. I am not looking to meet anyone.

Kathi

[Miranda09]

Ralph, as I told someone earlier, ewwwwwww!! Guys are hairy and smelly and gross - and I are one! :)

Ego boost/validation/semi-honest rating of my psuedo-attractiveness/what have you is all I'm going for. I am not looking to meet anyone.

Kathi

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that Kathi. You've got my vote for a 10! :)

[Melissa Rose]

Kathi, I find nothing wrong with your posting on Hot or Not. No innocent third parties are being harmed and you are also being safe. You are not gaining anything tangible at another person's expense. Sure, you may be deceiving people, but in this case there is no harm caused to anyone by it. My understanding is you are merely looking for third party feedback and potential ego gratification. I totally understand it.

[suchacutie]

You are looking to see how your femme self is rated.

Now, if you start accepting dates and such, that's another story, but if you want your femme self rated, what other way is there?

my :2c:
tina

[AmberDay]

Yes lying is bad. But I lie all the time on every form I fill out that asks if I am male or female. I am neither, but I am FORCED to choose one of the TWO choices anyway. I lie and say male. If I put female I would still be lying. There is no third option. I would love to see:

Male__
Female__
Other__

That way I wouldn't have to lie anymore. I am male on the outside and female on the inside. I am tired of having to let society tell me what my gender is. I hate lying, but until they put the third option I will keep lying and say that I am male.



Amber

[trannie T]

If you were attempting to turn tricks or swindle some poor love starved fool out of his life savings it would be wrong. Otherwise on "Hot or Not" there are more liars than at a political convention. You have no intention of causing any harm and it is very unlikely that any harm will come from your deception.

I have yet to rate your photo, if you wish for a good rating please send a photo of your boobs.

[ClaudiaDawn]

Lying? Does this mean you are not a real woman?
O M G !!!!!!


:)

Hugs,

Claudia Dawn

[TSchapes]

... On the other other hand... that site is also used for matchmaking. The first thing I saw when I clicked on your link was the question whether I want to meet Kathi. If you decide to push it just a bit farther and see how well you "perform" in person, and a straight guy meets up with you... heaven help you when, not if, he finds out. I myself would beat some sense into you if I arranged a date thinking you had all the right plumbing and found out you were a guy.

Sorry Ralphie, you'd go to jail for laying one finger on any transgal in this situation. Allen Andrade thought he would get away with the "Transgender Surprise Defense" when he beat Angie Zapata to death. But he got 60 years to life. (http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/23/transgender-murder-trial-reporters-notebook/)

So before you start talking with your fists, you might just want to walk away...

-Tracy

[Heather Daniels]

You're a real class act Ralph. :brolleyes:

[sherryleigh]

What is are hot or not..not that my opinion matters. Is it part of this site or something else? BTW You are Hot :)

[Ralph]

Sorry Ralphie, you'd go to jail for laying one finger on any transgal in this situation. Allen Andrade thought he would get away with the "Transgender Surprise Defense" when he beat Angie Zapata to death.
Good grief, I never mean to suggest that's a defensible position to take or even a smart thing to do. And for a variety of reasons, I would never actually harm someone - although looking back over my statement, anyone who does not know me in person would read that as a serious threat.

My point was to use hyperbole for dramatic effect so as to stress that it's a really, really, really, really, really, really bad idea for a person with the guy hardware, no matter how much "he" wants to believe he's female, to represent himself as such to a heterosexual male meeting in person for romantic and/or sexual contact. In such circumstances, I would be enraged and likely let loose with every misanthropic vulgarity I could think of and make up a few more for effect. But no matter how illegal or morally wrong or unjustifiable physical assault is, a frighteningly large proportion of the male population will not stop at verbal abuse once beyond the rage threshold. Note that I'm not saying you deserve it; I'm just saying that is the likely outcome of employing deception for an in-person encounter.

In any case, Kathi emphasized that she doesn't intend to meet anyone in person (which I should have realized when she said she also lied about location), so none of that applies.

Totally agree about lying on forms that demand personal information - I feel a brief twinge of guilt but for privacy reasons I always give a fictitious name and/or address, and certainly never a real phone number or email address.

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

I didn't skim the whole thread. Apologies if I'm repeating someone already. :)

First off, you look great, Kathi. Seriously - you should get a lot of positive feedback there, I'm sure (and probably have already). :)

Secondly, yes. I think it's wrong. I don't say that in a "shame on you", tone - just sharing my personal opinion of it.

Any online accounts I sign up for, I always explain who I am as a transgender. I do sign up for accounts as "female" rather than male, but that is because that is the gender-mode I am in. Regardless of gender checked, it is always clearly spelled out in my profiles - nothing hidden.

[TheNewDanielle]

Umm it's hot or not, who cares.....really it's just another avenue to see if you can "pass." I've thought about doing it, haven't done it yet as I haven't quite worked up the cajone's enough to do it so...eh whatever. It's just another test and you know Kathy I bet it felt nice knowing that people really think your hot (you are) who aren't on the website and just plain don't know, you'll never meet any of them nor probably talk to them so use it for what it is a tool to help your own curiosity and as an ego boost. Everyday on this website there's a post asking if so and so would "pass" honeslty you all are great, but no one on here is going to tell you that you wouldn't or that your ugly. That's not what we're here for, we support you and try and help you. So yeah it's a lie, if anyone say's they've never lied before I would LOVE To meet them. This is what it is, fun.

[TSchapes]

Good grief, I never mean to suggest that's a defensible position to take or even a smart thing to do. And for a variety of reasons, I would never actually harm someone - although looking back over my statement, anyone who does not know me in person would read that as a serious threat.

OK, I may have overreacted. But, I didn't want that comment to go un-challenged. I see too much of that kind of thing on Youtube comments and even the CNN article I linked to about Angie Zapata, the commentators were trying to lay it all on Angie. I agree you should not deceive a lover. It's stupid behavior.

I just dislike the threat of violence. I'm sorry I overreacted.

-Tracy

[KimberlyJo]

OK, I may have overreacted. But, I didn't want that comment to go un-challenged. I see too much of that kind of thing on Youtube comments and even the CNN article I linked to about Angie Zapata, the commentators were trying to lay it all on Angie. I agree you should not deceive a lover. It's stupid behavior.

I just dislike the threat of violence. I'm sorry I overreacted.

-Tracy

I don't think you overreacted, I felt the same way you did when I read Ralph's comment. Violence against transgendered people in this country is all to common and so its a touchy subject. I wouldn't expect to find such a statement here of all places.

[Tracii G]

Naw its Ok.
I posted on there just for fun but in my key words I used CD never stated my gender.
I have meet quite a few nice CDers on there.

[Miranda09]

Wow Kathi. This thread has brought forth a wide variety of opinions on this matter. But, for those of you that have responded with an "it's wrong viewpoint," let me just say this. If any of you have ever used a dedicated dating site (I've used at least 20), you'll eventually find out that there's a lot of deceiving, or should I say an omission of certain truths, that many (not all) users omit from their profile. That's just the way it is and it can range from lying about one's age to lying about one's marital status. So what...it's all anonyous anyway until you actually meet that person, which is rarely. Why do you think people post their profiles under an anonymous name?? Anyway, that's my final 2 cents worth. :)

[Laurie909]

Kathi,

My EYES don't lie.

So I would have to rate you HOT.

[kay_jessica]

Kathi- I consider myself a new member here. I have always considered your opinions up to now as having been well considered and balanced.How can you in all conscience expcect me to believe you ever again if you LIE?
Laura.

Laurap, unless your name really is Luarap, are YOU not lying on this very site?

Kay (and no Kay is not my real name)

[Kathi Lake]

Laurap, unless your name really is Luarap, are YOU not lying on this very site?

Kay (and no Kay is not my real name)Kay, LauraP actually PM'd me about 8-10 hours after posting, apologizing for her post. She realized that she may have been a bit too hasty in her first thoughts.

Everyone, thank you so much for your feedback. I didn't think that it would turn into a near-bloodbath! :) I'm usually pretty non-confrontational. I'm the type of girl who usually tries to make sure everyone is getting along, not one who is stirring the pot. I didn't mean for everyone to get so worked up. Can't we talk about hair and makeup instead? How about kittens? Fluffy kittens! Aren't they the cutest things ever?! :)

Once again, to reiterate, since Gabrielle and others may not have read the entire angst-filled post; I joined a website - HotOrNot.com. I joined as a female to see how I would rate/pass as a female, without letting others know that I was a male, thereby polluting the "data." I am not using it as a dating service or to meet men (ewwwww!), so my safety will not be compromised. As an unintended side benefit, I am collecting some really bad pickup lines, which I may post somewhere in the future.

All right everyone, let's go to the Shopping and Makeup threads! :)

Kathi

[MissConstrued]

Everyone, thank you so much for your feedback. I didn't think that it would turn into a near-bloodbath!


Did you forget that this is the Internet? :devil:

[kellycan27]

OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

This is my page kathi. You look beautiful, and you have done nothing wrong. Any of you others want to girl up and admit that you have posted your pic?


http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMG8BLAS&key=VEH

[Miranda09]

Here's mine Kathi. I think you look beautiful, and have done nothing wrong. Anyone esle want to girl-up and admit they have also posted ?

http://www.hotornot.com/p?action=photos

Actually yes..I'm playing around with that idea myself. I'm really curious as to how I measure up!! :)

[Miranda09]

Kay, LauraP actually PM'd me about 8-10 hours after posting, apologizing for her post. She realized that she may have been a bit too hasty in her first thoughts.

Everyone, thank you so much for your feedback. I didn't think that it would turn into a near-bloodbath! :) I'm usually pretty non-confrontational. I'm the type of girl who usually tries to make sure everyone is getting along, not one who is stirring the pot. I didn't mean for everyone to get so worked up. Can't we talk about hair and makeup instead? How about kittens? Fluffy kittens! Aren't they the cutest things ever?! :)

Once again, to reiterate, since Gabrielle and others may not have read the entire angst-filled post; I joined a website - HotOrNot.com. I joined as a female to see how I would rate/pass as a female, without letting others know that I was a male, thereby polluting the "data." I am not using it as a dating service or to meet men (ewwwww!), so my safety will not be compromised. As an unintended side benefit, I am collecting some really bad pickup lines, which I may post somewhere in the future.

All right everyone, let's go to the Shopping and Makeup threads! :)

Kathi

Oooooh. Did someone say shopping??? :D

[kellycan27]

Actually yes..I'm playing around with that idea myself. I'm really curious as to how I measure up!! :)

It's actually kind of fun.... and contrary to what some may think....harmless when done in the spirit which was intended.... A rating from unbiased strangers.

[Kathi Lake]

Did you forget that this is the Internet? :devil:Doh! You're right, MC. I forgot that the Internet can be a cold place. :)


This is my page kathi. You look beautiful, and you have done nothing wrong. Any of you others want to girl up and admit that you have posted your pic?


http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMG8BLAS&key=VEHThanks, Kelly. I've always loved that picture of yours. Maybe it's the boots. Yee ha, cowgirl!

Kathi

[Ralph]

In the context of "Just for fun, I want to see what others think of me" it would be a real interesting experiment to post your best picture on the site and explicitly state that you're a straight male crossdresser. Wonder what kind of feedback you'd get then? I'd do it myself if I didn't want to avoid being recognized by someone who knows my face.

[kellycan27]

In the context of "Just for fun, I want to see what others think of me" it would be a real interesting experiment to post your best picture on the site and explicitly state that you're a straight male crossdresser. Wonder what kind of feedback you'd get then? I'd do it myself if I didn't want to avoid being recognized by someone who knows my face.

I'd be lying if I said that.........:rofl:

[Edwina]

In the context of "Just for fun, I want to see what others think of me" it would be a real interesting experiment to post your best picture on the site and explicitly state that you're a straight male crossdresser. Wonder what kind of feedback you'd get then? I'd do it myself if I didn't want to avoid being recognized by someone who knows my face.

:D I tried that. My photo was NOT APPROVED :D
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=457&pictureid=11956
Seems you have to lie:heehee:
:love:
Edwina

[Jennifer Marie P.]

No a girl has to have some fun and you look pretty in that picture.

[Gerard]

I don't have a clue about that site, so I can't judge. The picture looks awesome though.

[Ralph]

I tried that. My photo was NOT APPROVED
Seems you have to lie
Well, that's just stupid. And there's the final answer to the OP's question... since they won't LET you be honest, you have no choice but to lie. Glad you tried it, anyway - good on ya for being courageous!

[Miranda09]

It's actually kind of fun.... and contrary to what some may think....harmless when done in the spirit which was intended.... A rating from unbiased strangers.

OK Kelly...I'm on Hot or Not. Let's see what happens!!! :)

http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMRMOYBYES&key=BVD

[Daphne7]

Placing yourself on there is lying, but given the situation I see nothing wrong with your choice. The site required you to in order for your picture to be judged in the category you wanted feedback from.

side note:
Everyone lies- even if its just to avoid hurting someone else's feelings. All lies are not created equal.

[kellycan27]

OK Kelly...I'm on Hot or Not. Let's see what happens!!! :)

http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMRMOYBYES&key=BVD

WooHoo... you're hot!
Kel

[Miranda09]

WooHoo... you're hot!
Kel

You know, this really IS an ego boost!!!!!!:heehee:

[Susan.]

Your white lie is totally appropriate. AND you look great. I love the Seinfeld line about being them being spectacular!! LOL

[Kathi Lake]

OK Kelly...I'm on Hot or Not. Let's see what happens!!! :)

http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMRMOYBYES&key=BVDYou certainly got a "Hot" vote from me!


Your white lie is totally appropriate. AND you look great. I love the Seinfeld line about being them being spectacular!! LOLHey, if you're going to steal a quote - steal from the best! :)

Kathi

[Miranda09]

You certainly got a "Hot" vote from me!


Kathi

Thanks Kathi...:o

[Carrie R]

Guess I'm a lying liar too... :)


http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMRMOMASSM&key=NPK

[dana55]

go for it sweetie..its absolutely fine. have fun.

[kellycan27]

Guess I'm a lying liar too... :)


http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=KMRMOMASSM&key=NPK

Beautiful and hot!... good for you! And then there were four!:hugs:
Kelly

[Kathi Lake]

OK, this one was just too good not to post. Here is an example of some of the messages I've been getting from Hot or Not "Matches.". Where do some of these guys get this stuff?! How can they sleep at night? Are there women that actually respond to this stuff with anything other than laughter?

I must profess my desirous longing for you, as pulsating pangs of passion overtake me for you, with visions of us erotically entwined, as our ooohs and aaahs of unbridled pleasure resonate throughout the hallways of love. Is it too much? Too thick (hint)?

:facepalm: :lol:

Wow! Good. Freaking. Lord!

Kathi

[Melissa Rose]

^^ Hey, I think I might have met that guy in person! :D Gag.

[Miranda09]

OK, this one was just too good not to post. Here is an example of some of the messages I've been getting from Hot or Not "Matches.". Where do some of these guys get this stuff?! How can they sleep at night? Are there women that actually respond to this stuff with anything other than laughter?

I must profess my desirous longing for you, as pulsating pangs of passion overtake me for you, with visions of us erotically entwined, as our ooohs and aaahs of unbridled pleasure resonate throughout the hallways of love. Is it too much? Too thick (hint)?

:facepalm: :lol:

Wow! Good. Freaking. Lord!

Kathi

:daydreaming: NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

[Kathi Lake]

^^ Hey, I think I might have met that guy in person! :D Gag.If I met him in person and he said that to me, I'm not sure if I would either point and laugh at him or deck him - probably both! :)

Kathi

[windycissy]

I love this topic! IMHO posting a picture of your femme self on Hot or Not is just harmless fun, I do it all the time and my highest score so far is an 8.9:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d620b3127ccec7969ab350ce00000040O08IatWLlw0aA9 vPgw/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Things do get a little dodgy when the messages start coming from would-be admirors, I always tell them the truth about myself, and most guys freak out but a few have been intrigued and wanted to meet me...

[Kaz]

Lying or not, these sites are what they are and I am always up for feedback on how I look as a girl so good on all of you!

On your feedback Kathi, yeah there are cranks out there, but it is very interesting to experience what girls do get back from some "blokes", and this is a relatively safe environment to do just that.

Haven't used that site but tried something similar a while back in the UK and was gobsmacked (technical term!) at the crass approaches I got. Made me feel genuinely embarrassed at the attitudinal state of very many "blokes"!! :heehee:

[Kathi Lake]

Lying or not, these sites are what they are and I am always up for feedback on how I look as a girl so good on all of you!

On your feedback Kathi, yeah there are cranks out there, but it is very interesting to experience what girls do get back from some "blokes", and this is a relatively safe environment to do just that.

Haven't used that site but tried something similar a while back in the UK and was gobsmacked (technical term!) at the crass approaches I got. Made me feel genuinely embarrassed at the attitudinal state of very many "blokes"!! :heehee:Totally true!! I messaged one guy back about his "less then gentlemanly" message to me (that was even more unprintable than the one above, believe it or not), and he said, essentially, that if I was on this site, then I was basically asking for it. Can you believe that?! It almost makes me want to snort, "Men!" :)

Kaz, your avatar picture is beautiful! You look so feminine and beautiful. I hope one day to have the grace I see in your photo.

Kathi

[Jenny Brown]

OK, this one was just too good not to post. Here is an example of some of the messages I've been getting from Hot or Not "Matches.". Where do some of these guys get this stuff?! How can they sleep at night? Are there women that actually respond to this stuff with anything other than laughter?
I must profess my desirous longing for you, as pulsating pangs of passion overtake me for you, with visions of us erotically entwined, as our ooohs and aaahs of unbridled pleasure resonate throughout the hallways of love. Is it too much? Too thick (hint)?
Wow! Good. Freaking. Lord!
Kathi
Whether this whole thing is a game or not, whether you're lying or not, whether anything on earth could possibly be more lame and juvenile than "Hot or Not" isn't even the issue. The point is - some people looking at the damn thing obviously think you're NOT lying. How do you sleep at night? :straightface:

[PrincessTia]

Trying to pass is a lie. This is a lie. And yet, neither are lies. Paradoxical, I'd say.

You are simply asking if you are hot and getting feedback. The site might as well be Pass or Not. You aren't asking for a date. And the answer, dearheart, is that you are hot. I know that were I not married, I'd certainly risk looking foolish asking you out. :daydreaming:

BTW, I found several others who are doing the same as you are. None of them, however, do it as well.

Tia

[PrincessTia]

The point is - some people looking at the damn thing obviously think you're NOT lying. How do you sleep at night? :straightface:

How do you sleep at night when you go to a pub or out at all trying to pass? It's the same thing, isn't it?

[TSchapes]

Someone took the time to make composite faces from Hot or Not and sort them by rating. You can see that the more one smiles and the more oval the face becomes (with other refinements) the higher the score.

Check this out: Hot or Not Face Composite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hotornot_comparisons_manitou2121.jpg)

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

-Tracy

[Miranda09]

Someone took the time to make composite faces from Hot or Not and sort them by rating. You can see that the more one smiles and the more oval the face becomes (with other refinements) the higher the score.

Check this out: Hot or Not Face Composite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hotornot_comparisons_manitou2121.jpg)

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

-Tracy

Interesting set of comparisons. Thanks Tracy. :)

[Miranda09]

Whether this whole thing is a game or not, whether you're lying or not, whether anything on earth could possibly be more lame and juvenile than "Hot or Not" isn't even the issue. The point is - some people looking at the damn thing obviously think you're NOT lying. How do you sleep at night? :straightface:

Hell, I sleep just fine!!! :sleep: Lighten up...have fun. That's what it's all about, and besides, like Kathi said, it's an interesting way to see how women get treated by would be admirers. That's quite an education!!!

OH, btw, my score is 7.9 after 400+ votes. Hmmm..not bad. A total surprise to me!

[Rachel Morley]

To me, the whole Hot or Not site is just a "fun internet thing". No one takes it seriously right? .... and for sure if you're looking for a date I wouldn't have thought that it's a reliable source. Don't worry about it, after all, hello! ... it's the Internet! ... hell, even I've done it (twice) :D

[lauraabdl]

Who of us hasen't told a lie? Yes it is wrong. But aren't we just trying to emulate women and some of us are passing and that is what?
For the sake of this I see no wrong in getting an opion of how she passed.
Laura Lee:2c:

[Lidia_tv]

What the hell, at least you get an honest opinion. Go for it

[Kathi Lake]

How do you sleep at night? :straightface:Usually on my left side. If I sleep on my back, my wife either ends up nudging me until I wake or goes to the couch in the den. Why?

Kathi

[TSchapes]

Whether this whole thing is a game or not, whether you're lying or not, whether anything on earth could possibly be more lame and juvenile than "Hot or Not" isn't even the issue. The point is - some people looking at the damn thing obviously think you're NOT lying. How do you sleep at night? :straightface:

Jenny Brown? Or is that not your real name? You mean you're lying on this board? Oh My!

[Jenny Brown]

Jenny Brown? Or is that not your real name? You mean you're lying on this board? Oh My!
I'm not posting my pic on "Hot or Not" to tease guys.
there's a difference.

[Kathi Lake]

Nor am I, if you had read the entire post (a fair bit of effort, to be sure). Yes, I posted one of the messages that a guy sent to me. Not for the "Hey, he thinks I'm a chick. Let's have fun with this!" aspect, but more the "Can you believe that some men think something like this would ever work?" line of thought.

You may think that, according to your quote, "You look like a drag queen an a bad day" but so far I have been rated a 9 with near 5,000 votes. I would say that the experiment has been a success - even for an old drag queen on a bad day.

Happy?

Kathi

[Jenny Brown]

Nor am I, if you had read the entire post (a fair bit of effort, to be sure). Yes, I posted one of the messages that a guy sent to me. Not for the "Hey, he thinks I'm a chick. Let's have fun with this!" aspect, but more the "Can you believe that some men think something like this would ever work?" line of thought.
You may think that, according to your quote, "You look like a drag queen on a bad day" but so far I have been rated a 9 with near 5,000 votes. I would say that the experiment has been a success - even for an old drag queen on a bad day.Happy?
Kathi
Hmmm...seems to me like maybe your "experiment" has been to try and pick up guys. Hey, whatever floats your boat...

[Kathi Lake]

Hmmm...seems to me like maybe your "experiment" has been to try and pick up guys. Hey, whatever floats your boat...Sigh, once again, oh bitter one, no. I am certainly not trying to pick up guys. There are those on this forum where that would not be a problem, but not me. Tell me, are you ever happy? :)

Kathi

[MsJanessa]

Sigh, once again, oh bitter one, no. I am certainly not trying to pick up guys. There are those on this forum where that would not be a problem, but not me. Tell me, are you ever happy? :)

Kathi

well if you were darling, I suspect it wouldn't be a problem for you--have a good evening

[AmberDay]

How do you sleep at night? :straightface:


I love it when people ask me, "how do you sleep at night?"

I reply, "I start lying on my back and usually end up on my left side.


I will never understand people who think they are more righteous than others. They must sleep very well.

[MaryAnn40c]

Yes you do look hot....I would like to be with you!

[AllisonR]

Oh my, Kathi! Well, let's see here. Quite a few "women" saying that lying in any form is wrong. Yet...how is their name on this forum? Hmm, female, right? And you and I know they are NOT GGs. Well, isn't that "lying", girls? Come on, think about it. You have an on-line/forum name that is female but you are male, dressed as a woman. Oh my! Do you go about telling everyone that you are a CDer? Nope, I wouldn't think so. Some of us "girls" don't pass i public, some try and fail, some don't even wear wigs or makeup. Ok, that's all fine. Really it is. That's ok because that is who you are. But NO ONE should take Kathi to task by saying they wouldn't trust her ever again because she "lied" on something like Hot or Not! If you don't like "lying", why don't you post your male name along with your male picture on your crossdresser.com avatar? Hey, just my thoughts on this. Kathi, you and TxKimberly have been an inspiration to me. I went in boy-mode to Lane Bryant, tried on and bought dresses and bras. Just shaved my face (oh how irratating! Have to get used to that) and a GG friend will be helping me with makeup that she sells. I don't consider being a CDer a lie. When I say I feel like a woman, I do. When I ask someone to call my Allison, that is because it is who I am. To all you "girls" (that is, men who dress up like women), quit calling the kettle black. If you want to be "honest", tell everyone you know that you are a man who wears womens panties and dresses and DON'T call yourself a femme name because...that is lying. Got it?

Allison


OK, I admit it. In a moment of weakness, I signed up on Hot or Not as a woman. Yes, I am getting plenty of validation as a woman when going out shopping around here. I get plenty of validation on this site. I just wondered what the public at large would think of me. So, I signed up.

Is it wrong to do this? What do you think?

Kathi

p.s. here's my page: http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=ESEYEYH

[kalina]

I still endorse posting pics on hotornot.com to assess your appearance. Unfortunately, the site has turned into an "only for 18-34" crowd, so if you lie about your age, then I agree that you're lying about yourself when you post your pics up there. I will also agree that if you airbrush your pics, you are lying about yourself.

However, I do not agree that we're lying about being female. Some of us are transsexual or inherently transsexual and won't admit to it yet or aren't ready to admit to it yet. That does not make us liars. It would be strange to post our pics and state that we're male because we are trying hard to present as female to the world. We are transgendered female if you want to label it, but female nonetheless.

If you follow the evolution of my look or my blog, you'll see that I've progressed to an androgynous look that some people think is male and some people think is female. Neither is correct. I'm just *me*.

http://www.transvamp.com/kalina/evolution/index.html
http://www.transvamp.com/kalina/blog/index.html

[Sylvermane]

makes perfect sense to me to lie in that case. if the goal is to be judged on being a woman then i'd likely do the same. if you told the truth you wouldn't get an accurate (use that loosely) response.

as far as the age and state, anonymity can be a lifesaver.

[Veronica Nowakowski]

I have been described by friends as being "too moral" and not in the dogmatic way. I hear you did that and I know I'm going to do it too once I get some good pics out there. If you start dating a guy and don't tell him, that would be wrong. These people are not hurt by it and will never know :)

[love heels]

I can't belive you lied Kathi that is so bad!
Fancy saying you are in Texas when you are in Utah hehe :):)

[Miranda09]

I still endorse posting pics on hotornot.com to assess your appearance. Unfortunately, the site has turned into an "only for 18-34" crowd, so if you lie about your age, then I agree that you're lying about yourself when you post your pics up there. I will also agree that if you airbrush your pics, you are lying about yourself.

However, I do not agree that we're lying about being female. Some of us are transsexual or inherently transsexual and won't admit to it yet or aren't ready to admit to it yet. That does not make us liars. It would be strange to post our pics and state that we're male because we are trying hard to present as female to the world. We are transgendered female if you want to label it, but female nonetheless.

If you follow the evolution of my look or my blog, you'll see that I've progressed to an androgynous look that some people think is male and some people think is female. Neither is correct. I'm just *me*.

http://www.transvamp.com/kalina/evolution/index.html
http://www.transvamp.com/kalina/blog/index.html

It's a woman's privilege to lie about her age!!! ;)