Trying to Understand the Community

[Veronica Nowakowski]

For an event for an organization, I was elected as a female delegate (there is gender balance involved and it's unfortunately like pulling teeth to get female delegates) and of course this will have to go past the credentials committee. There's always the question of whether I'm doing it so as to bypass gender balance. I was asked, straight out, if I really identify as a woman or if I just crossdress.

My understanding was that all of us here relate to a feminine side in this in one way or another. That transgender would apply, that there wouldn't be a question. It was mentioned that there are transvestites and transsexuals who crossdress but don't consider themselves the opposite gender in any way (I also thought transsexuals were the ones who did the change!).

So, this brings up the question that I would like to ask straight out, rather than the hobby question or whatnot. Do you know of crossdressers who completely consider themselves as their biological sex?

Myself, I like calling myself bi-gender, I relate with both halves equally.

[msginaadoll]

I have struggled with the whole gender thing for years. I guess what I have come to terms with is that I have a strong feminine side- if we are putting labels on things. Im not sure if it is because of being raised mostly by women, and raised the same as my sisters in most ways. I do crossdress but am transgender as well. In some ways I guess I was born male but never really learned what a man really was, and was raised female(except for the clothes) as a male. What that all means Im still trying to figure out.

[Wen4cd]

To honestly answer that question would take more space than a single post allows, and would probably insult half the community in one way or another. There are core differences in perception and opinion we usually avoid to respect other people's feelings, and to have ours respected likewise..

[Kathi Lake]

I am simply a male with fabulous taste in clothes. :)

Seriously, I know that some here identify as female - some just a bit and some so strongly that they are either considering hormones/surgery to correct what they feel as a birth defect or have already done so. This is not a "niche" site. We run the entire spectrum. I feel that I am on one end of that spectrum. No matter how I'm dressed, I identify as a male. I speak in a male's voice. I act as a male. I am a male. I simply choose to dress as what society views as a female. To me there's noting fetishistic about it. Nothing strange. I just am comfortable at times dressing completely and totally as a woman.

That said, I do feel what I can only describe as "girly" when I do this. I take great pleasure in doing these things. I enjoy emulating a woman - mostly to blend in, but also because I enjoy it.

Simple, isn't it?

:)

Kathi

[AlannahNorth]

I don't identify with myself as being female. One of the reasons I like to wear female clothing is that I'm not supposed to - according to the conditioning I had while being raised, and from what I see around me. I enjoy it, and sometimes I'm driven to it. I also like the idea of being a chameleon - being able to hide right in plain sight because I'm not recognized - kind of an ultimate challenge I guess.

I'm familiar with the idea of developing and taking on a personna, though I haven't taken it that far yet. It would be interesting... and perhaps then I would (for that time) identify as female.

[Ralph]

Since you're new here, Veronica, I won't call you to task for not reading the last eleventy-six threads on the subject. Suffice to say that there is a large percentage of "blokes in a dress" as one regular puts it. I'm sure you'll meet all of us as we all respond to this thread. I don't shave, I don't wear a wig or falsies or makeup, I don't wear artificial nails or paint the ones I have. I don't consider myself a woman in a man's body, or think that I have two different personalities that alternate in dominance. I don't have a female name for my "other side". I don't want people to think even for a moment that I'm a woman. I don't change my voice or otherwise try to adopt "feminine" characteristics*. About the only thing you could say that slides me a bit along the gender scale is that I'm perhaps more emotionally sensitive and empathetic than most of my non-TG male friends - on the other hand I'm every bit as crude and overcompetitive as they are, too.

Kathi answered much better than I did, and with far less arrogance - we do indeed have all kinds here.

Does that answer your question? :battingeyelashes:

* I put that in sarcasm quotes because I find that a lot of people have this bizarre 19th century idea of what a "real woman" should be like, and they imitate that fictional idealized caricature of a woman rather than anything realistically feminine. Not that there's anything wrong with that (see my avatar pic)

[Megan70]

As for me I cross dress to role play and "impersonate" a female and get sexual, pyschological and relaxing gratification out of it by a feeling of contentment. To feel as other than my biological choice of 100% male is a lot of phoooey. I don't have a "feminine side" by I can role play it out by method acting to appear that way. Me biologically feminine?... no way, just gimmie the damn clothes to look act and feel like a girl for three hours and then the wig and makeup come wiping off and its back to my guy self... happily
I cocur with what Kathi Lake said "That said, I do feel what I can only describe as "girly" when I do this. I take great pleasure in doing these things. I enjoy emulating a woman - mostly to blend in, but also because I enjoy it.

Hear here, same here

Megan

[WendyD]

I Kathi Lake & Megan70 siad it well........

[MissConstrued]

Why, Kathi Lake, Ah do b'lieve you have done hit that there nail squarely on the head... and Ah do know a thang or two about hittin' nails. :D

I am a stubborn S.O.B., and have always been inclined to do (or at least try) things I'm told I can't. So if they say a boy can't wear dresses and be pretty, well, them's fightin' words. And why not? They're lettin' wimmin drive Indy cars and run fer president now, fer Pete's sakes!

[Vicky_Scot]

I am simply a male with fabulous taste in clothes. :)

Seriously, I know that some here identify as female - some just a bit and some so strongly that they are either considering hormones/surgery to correct what they feel as a birth defect or have already done so. This is not a "niche" site. We run the entire spectrum. I feel that I am on one end of that spectrum. No matter how I'm dressed, I identify as a male. I speak in a male's voice. I act as a male. I am a male. I simply choose to dress as what society views as a female. To me there's noting fetishistic about it. Nothing strange. I just am comfortable at times dressing completely and totally as a woman.

That said, I do feel what I can only describe as "girly" when I do this. I take great pleasure in doing these things. I enjoy emulating a woman - mostly to blend in, but also because I enjoy it.

Simple, isn't it?

:)

Kathi

Do you wear breast forms when you dress.


I ask as you state: No matter how I'm dressed, I identify as a male. I speak in a male's voice. I act as a male. I am a male. I simply choose to dress as what society views as a female.

So wearing breast forms would not be worn then as men do not have breasts and you only wear what society see as female. I am guessing when you say wear you mean clothing, lingerie, footwear, jewelerry etc.

Xx Vicky xX

[Kathi Lake]

MC, no offense, but I suddenly visualized you as the construction dude in Village People. Ha! Do we have any policemen or Native Americans here? How about a biker? :)

Vicky, I sure do! In fact, I just spent quite a bit of my girl-budget for the year at a local mastectomy supply store to purchase the most perfect pair of artificial breasts that money can buy. Why? Not to be a woman, but to look like one as much as possible. To me, nothing says feminine as much as a woman's most recognizable secondary sexual characteristic - their boobies (as my friends at the mastectomy store call them). The feeling of confidence I have in my look when I wear these cannot be understated. The feeling of weight on my chest as I walk is a constant reminder to do the "shoulders back, butt out, stomach in" walk of a woman. Once again, with me, it's more a desire to blend and look/feel like a woman than be one.

As to why I couldn't settle for a lesser pair of forms, that is more my personality type. When I get into something, I get into it! I save and plan and save and plan some more and get the best-in-class items for that latest thing I want to do. When I wanted to get into video, I could have gotten a consumer-grade camcorder, but that's just not me. Instead I got a very nice camera (the one they film Scrubs with), with all the trimmings. Worth it? To me, very much.

Kathi

[trannie T]

It is too bad we no longer have polls. There seem to be many of us on the male end of the scale. I am a man dressed in drab, drag or nothing. I truly enjoy wearing womens clothing, wigs and makeup, I enjoy going out even though I do not pass as a female. The gender scale may be a bell curve with the uber male on one end and the transexual on the other with the rest of us crossdressers scattered about one end of the scale.

[Cheshire Gummi]

Some guys on here have actually made a pretty big point of saying they identify as male. Gender and genitals are different, but they don't dictate one another in my book.

I really don't know quite what I am, but I'm trying to figure it out through process of elimination.

Thus far, I have determined that I am not any of the following; toaster oven, cocktail olive, fried chicken recipe, schooner, diving board, turkey sandwich, bass guitar, packet of sugar substitute, prescription pill bottle, heavy metal vinyl record, brownie crumb, telephoto lens, cicada carcass, pot of gravy, web address, sycamore tree, cough drop, jar of mayonnaise, wrist watch, ukulele, cellular telephone, video game controller, rainbow, television show, spigot, compact disc, honey glazed ham, wallet, dictionary, plate, clock-radio, satellite, flax seed, glass elephant, and I am certainly NOT Ronnie James Dio.

There is a distinct possibility I am a wicker basket, though. I have a suspicion that I might be Willie Aames as well. I haven't ruled anything like that out, yet.

:battingeyelashes:

[MichelleP]

Yes. I know some occassional crossdressers that identify as males only. They dress to have fun, feel better, become sexually aroused etc.

I on the otherhand, fit better at the TS end of the scale.

Michelle

[Kathi Lake]

Persephone88,

Are you sure you don't have the song "Holy Diver" running through your head? Hmmm. Must've been me.

As for the wicker basket test, try this. Take a big drink of water. Done it? Good. Are you leaking?

:)

Kathi

[charlie]

Hello Veronica!
My guess is that the board elected a pretty good female representative. Dressed, I have a very strong female motivation and outlook. Not just actions, but a true gender bend. Why else would I like compliments and attention from men? I certainly do not like that (would consider it darn right strange) in male mode. I also relate to equality issues, dressing issues, and stereotypes.

[pattyv]

I am simply a male with fabulous taste in clothes. :)

Seriously, I know that some here identify as female - some just a bit and some so strongly that they are either considering hormones/surgery to correct what they feel as a birth defect or have already done so. This is not a "niche" site. We run the entire spectrum. I feel that I am on one end of that spectrum. No matter how I'm dressed, I identify as a male. I speak in a male's voice. I act as a male. I am a male. I simply choose to dress as what society views as a female. To me there's noting fetishistic about it. Nothing strange. I just am comfortable at times dressing completely and totally as a woman.

That said, I do feel what I can only describe as "girly" when I do this. I take great pleasure in doing these things. I enjoy emulating a woman - mostly to blend in, but also because I enjoy it.

Simple, isn't it?

:)

Kathi


Kathi-my feelings exactly. Couldn't have said it better.
Hugs.
Laura.

[PetiteDuality]

Since you're new here, Veronica, I won't call you to task for not reading the last eleventy-six threads on the subject. Suffice to say that there is a large percentage of "blokes in a dress" as one regular puts it. I'm sure you'll meet all of us as we all respond to this thread. I don't shave, I don't wear a wig or falsies or makeup, I don't wear artificial nails or paint the ones I have. I don't consider myself a woman in a man's body, or think that I have two different personalities that alternate in dominance. I don't have a female name for my "other side". I don't want people to think even for a moment that I'm a woman. I don't change my voice or otherwise try to adopt "feminine" characteristics*. About the only thing you could say that slides me a bit along the gender scale is that I'm perhaps more emotionally sensitive and empathetic than most of my non-TG male friends - on the other hand I'm every bit as crude and overcompetitive as they are, too.

Kathi answered much better than I did, and with far less arrogance - we do indeed have all kinds here.

Does that answer your question? :battingeyelashes:

* I put that in sarcasm quotes because I find that a lot of people have this bizarre 19th century idea of what a "real woman" should be like, and they imitate that fictional idealized caricature of a woman rather than anything realistically feminine. Not that there's anything wrong with that (see my avatar pic)

I kind of relate with Ralph (I don't have either a female name). I don't own wigs or falsies. I probably will and try to go out and do my best to try to pass, just because it would be really exciting to be around dressed as I like.

[TSchapes]

I relate more to the feminine than the masculine. Always have, always will. When I dress fully. I am Tracy. What's his name is gone.

:love:

[Frédérique]

I enjoy emulating a woman - mostly to blend in, but also because I enjoy it.


An excellent description – enjoyment is the key to the enterprise.


I am a stubborn S.O.B., and have always been inclined to do (or at least try) things I'm told I can't. So if they say a boy can't wear dresses and be pretty, well, them's fightin' words. And why not?


Yes, I agree. Why can’t a boy wear dresses and be pretty? I never do what I’m told…



Do you wear breast forms when you dress.


Pardon the pun, but if you wear a dress without breast forms it’s all rather pointless…

[MissConstrued]

but if you wear a dress without breast forms it’s all rather pointless…


Oh, you are sooo gonna pay for that one.... :doh:

[sarahNZ]

Definately a Bloke, all be it a pretty at times.

While I agree with many before me that have said that "I feel girly when dressed" I would still concider myself a bloke for all intents and purposes.

[Cheshire Gummi]

Persephone88,

Are you sure you don't have the song "Holy Diver" running through your head? Hmmm. Must've been me.

As for the wicker basket test, try this. Take a big drink of water. Done it? Good. Are you leaking?

:)

Kathi

I am not leaking, but I do have "Holy Diver" in my head. Maybe I AM Ronnie James Dio! Holy crap!!!

D:

[Wen4cd]

Once 'Holy Diver' is stuck in your head, it's a long hard road back home.

[Vicky_Scot]

Pardon the pun, but if you wear a dress without breast forms it’s all rather pointless…

There are crossdressers out there who do not wear forms when dressed so lets not generalise.

But your response is out of context of why I asked Kathi if she wore them or not. Kathi was saying how when dressed she still presents herself as male even though she chooses to dress in what society determines as female. Hence the question as woman do not wear breast forms.

Xx Vicky xX

[Princess Chantal]

Hence the question as woman do not wear breast forms.
Wow, they don't? So breast forms are primarily made for men who want to dress feminine? I thought for sure that breast forms were made for, advertised for, and worn by women who had a mastectomy.

[Fab Karen]

There are FtM's on this site as well...

[Gerard]

Interesting question. One of the reasons I visit this forum, is to try and find an answer to that for myself.

As far as I understand myself at the moment, I identify as a man, in that I don't have a problem with my physical body.

I'm less sure where I identify on the male-female scale. Call me gender-confused or something like that.

[Kathi Lake]

. . . Kathi was saying how when dressed she still presents herself as male even though she chooses to dress in what society determines as female. Hence the question as woman do not wear breast forms.

Xx Vicky xXWell, read my response again. There is a difference (to me at least) between presenting as a male and identifying as a male. When I go out, I do not intentionally change my voice or mannerisms to those of a female. I do, however, present as a female. In other words, I dress up as female as I can. I try to take it as far as I can go without modifying my body, I guess you could say. I shave/epilate/bleach extraneous hair to look more feminine. I shape my eyebrows to a much more feminine shape/amount. I have manicures and pedicures to get my nails looking their best. I take care of my skin so it looks as pretty and soft as possible. I choose my clothes carefully to compliment my mood, itinerary and body shape. I make sure my wig is well-styled. I either apply makeup myself or have a professional do it so as to look my best and most feminine. I wear breast forms. Yes, women normally do not wear breast forms. However, this is because they don't have to. They have breasts. Women's clothes look and fit better when you have breasts - or at least a reasonable facsimile (and my facsimiles are teh awesome! :)).

So, I do all this to look my feminine best. Why? Because I feel like doing it that way. As I said before, when I do something, I go all out. What I don't do is try to fool anyone with anything other than my appearance, I guess, buy what I call "prancing and lisping." For those that see me from a distance, as long as they're nearsighted, the illusion is complete. I basically let them draw their own conclusions. For those unfortunate enough to either have good eyesight or see me close-up, the illusion is shattered as though my appearance is not quite in the Quasimodo/Frankenstein neighborhood, I have seen pitchforks, torches and angry villagers nearby.

Kathi

[Bev06 GG]

So, this brings up the question that I would like to ask straight out, rather than the hobby question or whatnot. Do you know of crossdressers who completely consider themselves as their biological sex?

Myself, I like calling myself bi-gender, I relate with both halves equally.

Golly
Me thinks Wen4 is right. You could write a book on this subject. I think your comment about both halves strikes a cord too. Is it both halves or one full. My partner is a male and relates as a male, but has a feminine side to him. I dont really think of him as two halves, more as one very unique individual. Really gets you thinking doesn't it.
Take care
Bev