Are Crossdressers outcasts in the gay community?

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I'm not sure how to start this subject, but I'll start by saying I like to go out dressed, and the only safe places here in Brisbane is the gay scene/gay bars. I go out once a month to a place called The Sportsman. Although, its safe and secure, I would'nt call it over-all freindly, particurely by the gay guys. The lesbians are more freindlier and aproachable. The gay guys at times seem as though they dont want to know us sometimes, and ignore us. I've posted a subject on this in a local gay forum cause I go on the forums to see whats happening with the local entertainment. Some of the comments I've received from gay guys are "I just cant understand why a man would want to wear a dress or full ladys regalia". I'm getting the impression that, although its a safe place, does'nt mean we are liked by the gay community. I think(in my opinion) drag shows go over well for the performance and entertainment, but not for crossdressers. I could be wrong, and it could be 50/50 too. What do you girls think from experience or from what you've heard?

[Kimmy55]

It seems to be the same here in South Central Texas.Gays dont care for Cd's all that much.:battingeyelashes:

[crossdrezzer1]

they tolerate us and during shows they get amused by us

[noeleena]

Hi... Funny you should say that P.F.G. I was over there last year about this time for the ball in syd so yes i met some of the guys a kareoke night . stayed in bris 1 night at friends then in a backpackers before heading up to bundy , oh wow .
just over the ditch .
...noeleena...

[Robertacd]

Yes we are, specially if we are not gay :doh:

I read an article a decade ago lamenting drag queens as "the clowns" of the gay community. Gay men resented them because they are one of the stereotypes that the strait public fear the most.

At the time gay men were trying to change their image from the stereotype limp wrist, flower shirt, talking with a lisp to more of a boy next door.

[Princess Chantal]

Here in Winnipeg the gay community treats us crossdressers very well. In fact the gay clubs have gone out of their way to accomodate for our crossdressing group's monthly meeting, events and support us in whatever way we need. Hmmm as for the people in the community; I personally get greeted by smiles, compliments, conversations, and hugs by many gays, lesbians and bisexuals. I have become very good friends with many in the community as well.
I have answered many questions about crossdressing posed by the lesbian and gay community. It's just a matter of better their understanding of us.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi PFG-

Well, here's my two cents, I do think gay guys don't really get us. First of all, despite stereotypes of the swishy, effeminate gayboy, most of them are pretty macho to one degree or another, just check out some gay biker bar sometime. Of course, gay guys, just like tgirls, run a gamut of expression from one extreme to another. For gays, it's about sexual orientation, who makes you want to jump in the sack and bump uglies, for us it's about gender expression, the outward display of what gender we feel ourselves to be inside.

Personally speaking, I have a brother who's gay and he and his life partner and I have gone out a few times and had many conversations about my being TG. While they're all for people being themselves, they really don't get it either, why a guy would want to be a girl. The closest they can come to getting their heads around it is some gay friends they have who are female impersonators, a few of whom I've met, and they just sneered at me, though in a nice way.<lol>

So yeah, I do think we are the stepchildren of the GLBT community.

###Add-on: Perhaps I should clarify something here. FWIW, I've been to several gay bars with my brother in San Antonio, as well as others where I live. I've never been treated rudely or been hassled in any way, and actually I guess that applies to anywhere I've ever gone so far...knock on wood. What I meant in the body of my post is simply that a lot of gays don't understand why a man would want to be a woman or present as one.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[Rachel Morley]

I not sure about "outcasts" as that suggests that you have to be "in" in the first place, which I don't think we have ever been ... not fully anyway.

For the most part I would agree with you. Lesbians seem to be more comfortable with us, but IMHO that's because they are GGs and in my experience, it's no different than the rest of society, i.e. I think women in general are less offended (if I can use that word) than guys are of us. The other thing is they might know that a lot of us are straight and therefore might not feel particularly comfortable about us being in what is essentially, a safe place for them to be openly romantic with their partners. Finally, gay or not, they are regular guys and so I think it's pretty normal for them not to "get it" when it comes to embracing the feminine side of life. I've had conversations with people from the Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Court_System) and they really didn't understand us at all.

As I see it, what with the whole recent thing about trying to push EDNA through but without transgender rights etc, plus the fact that locally our LGBT Lambda Center was renamed to the "Gay & lesbian Center" and I heard that they've stopped a lot of the funding for "T" support, in my area, and in my mind, they're sending me a clear signal about "the pecking order". However, .... having said all that, I personally have never experienced any feelings of being rejected or outcast from the gay bars I go to. People are either friendly or they ignore me. :)

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Generally I find that whilst gay people don't understand us, they're very supportive. I've only ever had bad vibes in the Fountain in Brum. Everywhere else has always been very welcoming. But that could just be because England is more tolerant and open than most countries.

[joann07]

To me, I think it boils down to your attitude, how you carry yourself, and your overall presentation.
A fellow Tgirl mentioned something similar when she said that she went to a local gay sportsbar and hangout and she said that when she walked in the bar it was like one of those scenes from a movie where the music and conversations ceased because someone out of the ordinary walked in.
Now, she's not one who dresses to blend in and I was thinking to myself well in seeing how you dress I can understand why people would react, snicker, and treat you like some kind of weirdo because your outfit or dress makes you stand out like a red flag.

In other words, if you dress like a drag queen, trashy, ****ty, or like a freak, then you'll be treated as such and possibly get inappropriately touched by perverted tranny chasers. But if you dress appropiately, with a good sense of style and class, then people will treat you with courtesy and respect. It's just the nature of people whether they're straight or gay.

Here in Florida, I have a number of gay friends and they are very supportive of my dressing. They've invited me to parties, get togethers, and to their local GLBT churches and I've come out to support them. I'm always dressed with class, and in contemporary fashion, because I don't want to be perceived as a "man in a dress" so as to avoid embarassing myself and my friends. They are constantly giving me compliments and telling me that I am so passable that they would never think I'm a guy.

A couple of them work at the same place I work and I get along with them really well. Occasionally I have lunch with them and we just have a good time chit chatting. There were a few times when I was off from work and so I came to the office as JoAnn to have lunch with them at the cafeteria. They admired my courage to come out and meet them when there were people all around who knew me, but are completely oblivious.

I've been to several gay/lesbian bars and clubs that my gay friends normally frequent and everytime I'm always treated with courtesy and respect by the staff and anyone I encounter. Again, I dress appropriately just like any other GG and I am always friendly and sociable with whomever I interact with.

Hugs!

[AllieSummers]

I only go to the the "gay section" of town when I go out in Dallas, Austin, Houston or San Antonio. I have never felt uncomfortable or as if the gay community was anything less than tremendously supportive.

Most gay guys are not attracted to girls like us but they don't give me a hard time.

A lot of Lesbians love CDs, at least from my experience.

To be honest, I've personally never met a mean gay person. :)

On the topic of "Drag Queens". Most drag queens are gay men that dress very outlandishly and are into the "shock value" of dressing up. They do tend to be the clowns of the gay community. Most drag shows are comedy acts that make fun of dressing (a little) and love to make fun of the straight people in the crowd that go to them.

Since I don't dress outlandishly (although sometimes my friends say I dress like a 17 year old that is going through puberty) I don't get a lot of flack for dressing.

Kisses,

Allie

[Princess Chantal]

It amazes me how different I hear of other cities are compared to what I see in Winnipeg.
I find that the Winnipeg LGB community treatment of crossdressers does not pend on the attire one wears, more so on our willingness to socialize. The local drag performers are well respected within the community and are not seen as "clowns". In my opinion, their outlandishly dress is not to make fun of dressing, but to show their creativeness to accomplish the "shock value" that they may be seeking. They love to pick on each other for laughs and very rarely pick on those in the crowd. (I haven't seen them make fun of anyone that is not known in the community as of yet).

[NaughtyMichelle]

I guess to some extent, it depends on the venue. I won't go dressed to a club that specifically caters to young men, or a gay leather bar. And I've had some disparaging remarks from some lesbians while using the ladies room. But I've never really had a problem with gay guys as such. I've had a lot of gay couples chat me up, and buy me drinks. As a matter of fact, sometimes I have a problem in getting rid of them so I can do some serious flirting. :o

[MichelleP]

Conversations I've had with gay guys tend to be polite but tending toward an "I don't get it" nature with regard to crossdressing. Interestingly I've been hit on more from gay guys than any others. Most lesbians I've met have been very engaging and fun. To that end, when I travel I always seek out the gay areas first because they offer more security in cities that I am unfamiliar with. As Allie said, I've never met a mean gay person either.

Michelle

[DonnaT]

I doubt there's much difference in how some gays feel about us and how some straights feel.

Personally, the club I go to in Richmond, VA has been quite accepting, and they have set the first Friday of each month as TG night (TGIIFF (http://www.fieldensva.com/fldsTGIIFF/TGIIFF.html)). And I don't recall any hassles between the guys and trans gals, other than some extra amorous feelings.

And there are a couple of other clubs in Richmond where the trans gals hang out, one being a Lesbian club. No problems when I've been to either of these clubs as well.

[sandra-leigh]

Here in Winnipeg the gay community treats us crossdressers very well. In fact the gay clubs have gone out of their way to accomodate for our crossdressing group's monthly meeting, events and support us in whatever way we need.

:yt:

Princess Chantal is, by the way, the current president of the local Winnipeg crossdressing club; if the gay bars were not supportive of us, she'd be one of the first to know.

I'm a relative new-comer to the club (only 4 1/2 years), but in that time, I have never been treated less than politely by staff at either of the gay bars, and "outright friendly" is much more common. Some of our members are on the Board of Directors of one of the GLBT clubs: we are not just "tolerated", we are integrated with them.

When we have our annual club dinner, our host bar closes the doors for the evening, and the staff and an assortment of people from the GLBT community "come out of the woodwork" and design and build our dining decorations including the stage and disappear again -- they do not happen to share our interest, but they selflessly volunteer to help us out because we are respected members of the community... because we are their friends.

During the annual pride parade, the GLBT clubs actively ask our club to be part of their float, even in years when their floats are relatively small.

The lesbians... the local lesbian social coordinators run an annual riverboat cruise, and members of our club are actively welcomed to join in. I haven't been on one of them myself, but a number of our club members have, and I have heard repeatedly from the members who have gone that they were made to feel welcome. When there is a "lesbian night" event at either of the two clubs, our club members are welcome to join in.


Our "secret to success" is that our club members actively contribute to the GBLT community events, in a wide range of capacities. We did not sit back and expect everyone to be thrilled to see us just because the clubs theoretically cover "T" (transgender), and we did not treat them as something apart from us: we "stepped up to the plate" and helped with the events that were important to them; and they, in turn, not only responded one-to-one, they spread the word around their sub-communities that we are Nice People who support them. Familiarity breeds... compliments.


A few months ago, I happened to be talking to someone who turned out to be the current President of the organization that runs our host bar, and I realized that as far as he and all the other staff were concerned, I was not merely "one of those people who comes in with the crossdressing group": that instead, they considered me to be one of them, respected and welcome any time no matter how I was dressed. It was a great feeling, to be accepted as a part of the greater GLBT community, to feel that I belonged there; to know that whenever I go back there, I will be welcomed home.

[Samantha B L]

I have some gay freinds and I will always feel like LGBT and TG/TS/CD are in many ways interelated and that all of us should stick together. I have some gay and lesbian cousins and a couple of them are like 20 years older than me and almost like Uncles. In more recent years I have thought about outing myself to a couple of these people but I'm concerned that the older 2 who are like Uncles would show a kind of almost parental disaprovel which p----- me off and the younger cousins would simply be nonplussed and disinterested. The vast majority of gay people are very,very nice and intellegent people and actually,like some of you,I get along better with Lesbians than gays even though both groups are freindly. But I've had gays show some disinterest or disaproval of me for being a CD a couple of times.

[Elle1946]

CD's seen to be in a nitch of their own.

[Jill]

I don't really have anything to add but my personal confusion.

The gay community is one that has been asking for acceptance and tolerance and even understanding so why would some of them having trouble giving that to other groups like us? That doesn't add up for me. I would think we would be welcome in the gay culture, I'm a little surprised to hear that in some places we are not.

[Joni Marie Cruz]

To be honest, I don't see a lack of acceptance on a local level, like in a club or social or suport group, and especially on a personal level, like meeting and mingling in a bar or something like that. The lack of support seems more to be on a national/political level. As Rachel pointed out, there was a deliberate attempt to exclude Transgenderism as a protected class in ENDA.

While I respect and admire the immense strides that the GLB community has made, and it hasn't been quick or easy, we, the TG community have a long way to go politically. And the simple fact of one group fighting for their own acceptance doesn't necessarily make them sympathetic or supportive of another group.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[GaleWarning]

I once contacted a person here in Auckland, who I had heard was the organiser of a monthly social, with a view to attending. She informed me that she had been "stabbed too often in the back" (her words) by members of the TG and gay community and had stopped doing it. Her comments actively killed off my interest.

I am now content with my own and shesadvl's company.

Here is a comment, which may inflame some of you ... now that gays ARE openly recognized as a minority, it seems to me that there are SOME who now play the "victim" card whenever they are criticized. This gives gay people a bad image.

Before you throw a wobbly, here is an example ... a couple of weeks back, the press here in NZ were critical of the huge sums of money a number politicians across the political spectrum were spending on travel. Only one bleated. He claimed that he was being targeted because he is gay.

Actually, he is, by far, the most extravagant spender amongst the opposition members.

[Princess Chantal]

Our "secret to success" is that our club members actively contribute to the GBLT community events, in a wide range of capacities. We did not sit back and expect everyone to be thrilled to see us just because the clubs theoretically cover "T" (transgender), and we did not treat them as something apart from us: we "stepped up to the plate" and helped with the events that were important to them; and they, in turn, not only responded one-to-one, they spread the word around their sub-communities that we are Nice People who support them. Familiarity breeds... compliments.
Actually, well before you were a member of the group; we did sit back at the corner of the clubs in our little group. Thanks to several drag performers who constantly made the effort to welcome us, spend time with us and introduce us to the Lesbian and Gay community through our "shyness" years. We held our meetings in a basement of a lingerie store in those days. We were out growing (memberwise) that location and had an offer to hold our meeting at a gay club. At that time we were afraid of how being associated with the gay community would affect our membership. However after a few months of delaying, we took up the offer and we sure are glad that we did. With all the kindness portrayed by the gay community many of our members are actively contributing to GBLT community as a thank you.

[deja true]

Well, it's hard to paint any particular person with a paintbrush that is supposd to cover the whole group.

Look at us! With our almost unanimous statements of acceptance of the rights of all sorts of minorities ('cos we feel ourselves to be a particularly downtrodden one...) we should all be painted "bleeding heart liberals"! But, as we know, from lots of different threads, our group here includes folks of all political persuasions and sociological feelings right down to the most ultra conservative church-going, gun-totin kind.

So a blanket statement of "Gay guys don't like us..." just can't hold up. Many gays voted Republican, many are more straight-arrow than the fundie preacher over by the trailer park. Many don't like other types of gay guys, like the leather crowd or the flagrant queens.

All we can do is be the most accepting people that we can be. As several have said, Sandra-Leigh in particular, to get along ya gotta go along. If you show an interest in others and their issues, they will show an interest in yours.

It's the very same way you made friends in high school, for gosh sakes! If you talked to others about mutual interests, then you made friends. If you talked only about yourself and your issues, you remained outside looking in. Every thing we can do to help other "marginalized" people will (or should) be returned in kind when we need help, too.

L'Union fait la Force, hunnies!

[Princess Chantal]

As I see it, what with the whole recent thing about trying to push EDNA through but without transgender rights etc, plus the fact that locally our LGBT Lambda Center was renamed to the "Gay & lesbian Center" and I heard that they've stopped a lot of the funding for "T" support, in my area, and in my mind, they're sending me a clear signal about "the pecking order". However, .... having said all that, I personally have never experienced any feelings of being rejected or outcast from the gay bars I go to. People are either friendly or they ignore me. :)
Was the transgender community actively supporting the center before the name change? And by what I mean by supporting is volunteering or financial supporting?

[sandra-leigh]

Actually, well before you were a member of the group; we did sit back at the corner of the clubs in our little group. [...] With all the kindness portrayed by the gay community many of our members are actively contributing to GBLT community as a thank you.

True, but in my estimation, which I derive from our oral histories, our (Winnipeg) club did not really "blossom" into full acceptance in the greater community until our members started "giving back". But I defer to your greater knowledge of the circumstances.


I do regret that my personal circumstances have kept me from being active on the volunteer roster.

[AllieSF]

Being fortunate enough to be able to live in the San Francisco area in California, I have never had any negative reaction from straights, gays, lesbians or whomever. On two recent trips to Detroit, Michigan, the results were the same. I am very outgoing and talk to everyone, so I can speak from that in your face (nicely) interchanges with others.

Regarding why gays would not support us, I have found from personal experience and from all of my reading here and in other places, that all groups are made up of probably all the same types of factions, sects, niches and other parts of out society as a whole. So I truly believe that prejudice can be found everywhere even within our own CD community.

[Erica K.]

my experience in this matter is some gay guys don't seem to appreciate me being there & made it obvious they were making fun of me, but that is few & far between. My cousin is a lesbian and put it this way refering to no one group's opinion of us in particular, "gays & lesbians are one thing, but crossdressers are just wierd". Her & all of her friends thought I was "just the cutest thing ever!" at the last pride festival. Got a couple negative stares & comments, but they didn't compare to how many cat calls & "ooh sexy lady" comments I got, from gay guys and lesbians :)

[Bev06 GG]

Hi Pretty flowing gown
I hate to sound like I am being sexist here because I certainly dont mean to be, but my experience of guys in general is that they are far less tolerant and understanding than women are. You would think wouldn't you that someone like a Gay guy would be more understanding because generally speaking minority groups that are on the fringes of society are more embracing and sympathetic toward another minority group, purely because they understand being misunderstood.

I think it is part of the human condition and women are not totally exempt from it but I do think there is more chance of a female accepting your dressing than another male, Gay or not.

I went to my support group quite a few months ago, straight from work. I was wearing a trouser suit because they are much more practical than skirts or dresses when your driving around the county 8 hours aday and in and out of your car. I sat next to a CD whom I had never met before and started to make polite conversation. He/she immediately looked me up and down and said Darling your really letting your gender down, fancy not wearing a skirt.

Dumfounded by the sudden unexpectedness of such a remark I was lost for words, but the words that immediately came to mind were POT KETTLE and BLACK.

Hey ho were a funny lot aren't we. I did wonder what reception I'd have got at a support group if I had made a similar remark to a CD.
Take care
Bev

[MsJanessa]

I've usually found that I'm much more likely to be accepted in a gay bar than in a straight one---that said there are gays who do not like Us and are not shy about telling us so----they tend to be testosterone filled jerks

[Fab Karen]

While many are ok with us being around, there are still a few fatuous gay guys who want nothing to do with a GG, including platonic friends, much less us. The only thing I've personally seen in gay crowds is either friendliness or neutral indifference.

If we talk about "dressing ****ty" we should be careful- what does that mean precisely, do we use a Victorian definition? Or something most would find sensible ( like not wearing a micro-mini ( think wide belt ) & a thong with 6" heels )?

[sherri52]

I'm not sure how to start this subject, but I'll start by saying I like to go out dressed, and the only safe places here in Brisbane is the gay scene/gay bars. I go out once a month to a place called The Sportsman. Although, its safe and secure, I would'nt call it over-all freindly, particurely by the gay guys. The lesbians are more freindlier and aproachable. The gay guys at times seem as though they dont want to know us sometimes, and ignore us. I've posted a subject on this in a local gay forum cause I go on the forums to see whats happening with the local entertainment. Some of the comments I've received from gay guys are "I just cant understand why a man would want to wear a dress or full ladys regalia". I'm getting the impression that, although its a safe place, does'nt mean we are liked by the gay community. I think(in my opinion) drag shows go over well for the performance and entertainment, but not for crossdressers. I could be wrong, and it could be 50/50 too. What do you girls think from experience or from what you've heard?

I have heard the same over the years. I am still basically in the closet with only friends knowing (mostly women) But I was told we walk the fence between being straight and gay.We are not liked on either side. Strange too because I have read that 25% of all men have tried it. Peer presure has them stop.

[shesadvl]

Hi Pretty flowing gown
I hate to sound like I am being sexist here because I certainly dont mean to be, but my experience of guys in general is that they are far less tolerant and understanding than women are. You would think wouldn't you that someone like a Gay guy would be more understanding because generally speaking minority groups that are on the fringes of society are more embracing and sympathetic toward another minority group, purely because they understand being misunderstood.

I think it is part of the human condition and women are not totally exempt from it but I do think there is more chance of a female accepting your dressing than another male, Gay or not.

I went to my support group quite a few months ago, straight from work. I was wearing a trouser suit because they are much more practical than skirts or dresses when your driving around the county 8 hours aday and in and out of your car. I sat next to a CD whom I had never met before and started to make polite conversation. He/she immediately looked me up and down and said Darling your really letting your gender down, fancy not wearing a skirt.

Dumfounded by the sudden unexpectedness of such a remark I was lost for words, but the words that immediately came to mind were POT KETTLE and BLACK.

Hey ho were a funny lot aren't we. I did wonder what reception I'd have got at a support group if I had made a similar remark to a CD.
Take care
Bev

I bet you were taken aback Bev...lol... this is something that my partner posted in a thread about the age old question of why do we CD, in reference to the remark that was made to you about wearing a trouser suit.


Because I don't think it's fair that women can wear whatever they like and men can't. It's a form of discrimination, and I hate all forms of discrimination!

Oh, I also enjoy the fabrics ...

I think that gay guys are just being themselves GUYS no matter they are gay or not....

I have seen here when they have what they now call the Pride parade not Hero's that the transgender community do work together,
perhaps its where you come from and how you are with each other that makes for acceptability, I have frequented gay bars, with a mix of friends,.. what I have seen that everyone gets on particularly well, which I thought was surprising... but thats here...

I even accompanied my partner when he wished to go out to what is called "dorothy's sisters place" a restaurant and bar caters to all, Owned by a couple Guys,.. that do drag shows and everyone goes dressed. You can check it out on the web www.dorothyssister.co.nz
has a mix of people, their restaurant, events etc.
:battingeyelashes:

Im a power to believe would it not be nice,.. if you accept people as you find them. But life is not like that I guess...:battingeyelashes:

just a foot note I have just heard something on our radio here a male caller talking about transgendered people adopting children, which has been an issue, I believe since the acceptance
of Civil Union's between same sex's.

If one does not accept the Gay community, or that person, the Gay people in the community call them homophobic (which I think this caller was, by his comment, not wishing to see it allowable for same sex people adopting children). The radio host asked him point blank how do you stand he said he's not accepting of anything in the field of the gay community no matter what it is.

Just goes to show that still not alot open their minds to acceptance of anything....or all peoples no matter their sexual preference or status. :battingeyelashes:

[dawnmarrie1961]

This is not unusual since most cds are heterosexual they are considered forbidden fruit by the gay community. Lesbians are more forgiving because they feel a kinship with us. We are both after the same prey, females. It's just kinda ironic that we are dressing opposite to attract them. It's a strange new world!

Be safe. Be smart.

Dawn Marrie

[darling_felicity]

A TG friend of mine went to a "League of Gentlemen" (gay guys group) outing and about the only guy who talked to her came over and asked what she was doing there. I do belong to a TG meetup group that meets in a pub in Melbourne which is a gay haunt. But we tend to drink at one end of the bar and the gays at the other. I agree that they do see us as being too much like the typical homophobe's streotype. I always try to look as passable as possible because I'd hate to be seen as a caricature of a woman. Both for my sake and so as not to offend GGs. When you think about it gays are gay because they fancy men. If they don't fancy us they must consider us women-nothing wrong with that.

[Cheshire Gummi]

As I stated before (somewhere on this message board...), the Queer Community at large has become less about whether you feel alienated by the gender and sexual role society inflicted on you and more about whether or not you're queer enough or the right kind of queer.

I do feel that we've been completely marginalized. When you say "cross-dresser" to someone, they conjure images of a lip-syncing, bitchy drag queen. When you say "gay" to someone, they go on and on about how their cousin or their best friend in college or this and that and they're totally okay with it. More than okay with it. They're happy about it. It's so brave, etc. etc. etc.

For some reason, homosexuals have managed to obtain the public image of "They're so brave and fabulous!" while we're still a bunch of Ru Pauls.

I don't want to rant anymore, because it won't solve anything. We're far from equals in the Communities' book, but at least we're equals to each other. You're my sisters and brothers. That's what really matters.

[Vicky_Scot]

Accepted? No

Tolerated? Yes

We are tagged onto the end of the gay community and no offence to the gay community because society has a this preconception that we are gay and we are all sterotyped as the Frank N Furter character from the Rocky Horror.

[miss_mimi107]

I don't know about that. I haven't really been out to the gay community. Usually, I never have the means to. It's kinda like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.:sad:

[michelle64]

on record right now..i do not support any of the gay agenda...we in the CD community for even wanting association from those groups were dumb and stupid..outcome is all CD's are gay...that perception has set us back years..i am married to a GG..completely straight..for the stupidity of a few CD'ers i refuse to associate with any group or other..its harsh,,but the CD community needs to engage the brain before linking associations

[sandra-leigh]

on record right now..i do not support any of the gay agenda...

Ummm, could you perchance post a link where I could get a copy of "the gay agenda" ? I know some gay people pretty well, and they've sworn that they never received a copy, and they've looked and looked and looked...


{One of them was willing to admit that They did indeed put one together, but that it never got printed up and sent out to anyone because They couldn't agree on what colour the pages should be. But his co-husband said that, No, the problem was that they couldn't agree on what the title should be. His creche-brother said that he'd always heard that the delay was due to a major rabbinical fight about the conditions under which spermatazoa were Kosher For Passover, but one of the men from the Black Helicopters said that No, the hold-up was a big diplomatic argument with Greece about whether under EU law, certain acts should be Protected Geographical Indication (PGI), or Traditional Speciality Guaranteed (TSG). (See Protected_Geographical_Status for more on that disagreement....)}

[Mandyflcd]

There is a gay bar in town here (east Central Florida) that has some CD's in it from time to time. I've only been there once in "guy mode" for a friends party. They have drag shows and all that sort of thing. I've never heard anything about CD's being treated badly there.

If I ever ran into a gay person, be it female or male, that had a problem with me cross-dressing I would be very hard pressed not to call them a hypocrite to their face. The LGBT community has struggled for a long time to be accepted and then to turn around and treat a CD like an outcast... hypocritical to the max.

[tricia_uktv]

I spend a lot of time in the gay village in Manchester and am totally accepted by all - gays, straights, lesbians TS's. If you are friendly, approachable and smile then people will accept you. There will always be a few who don't but that is the casr however you are dressed. Incidentally I've been invited to a gay wedding in a couple of months so am looking forward to choosing my outfit.

[MiraM]

on record right now..i do not support any of the gay agenda...we in the CD community for even wanting association from those groups were dumb and stupid..outcome is all CD's are gay...that perception has set us back years..i am married to a GG..completely straight..for the stupidity of a few CD'ers i refuse to associate with any group or other..its harsh,,but the CD community needs to engage the brain before linking associations

It's an attitude like this that will make gays and straights think you are a total ass and treat you like an outcast

[trannie T]

We are different from most straight people because we dress in womens clothing.
We are different from gay people because we dress in womens clothing and most of us are heterosexual.
We are the square pegs of society that fit into neither the round or triangular holes.
In some areas there is some animosity between the trans and gay communities. In Reno where I do most of my dressing we all get along well, except once when I went to a gay bar where I did not know it was Leather Night, I was not treated rudely, just ignored.

[Sally2005]

I don't know about outcast, but gay guys are attracted to people that look like guys. So it seems only natural that you receive a cool reception in a place like a bar where the gay guys are cruising for other guys. Think about it, hanging out at a bar watching girls with your male friends...you look for the hot girls...point out an average woman and you get some negative comment back. When CDing, the women can relate to you and the guys are attracted to the visual female appearance so you get two responses...they like how you look or they don't.

[Vicky_Scot]

on record right now..i do not support any of the gay agenda...we in the CD community for even wanting association from those groups were dumb and stupid..outcome is all CD's are gay...that perception has set us back years..i am married to a GG..completely straight..for the stupidity of a few CD'ers i refuse to associate with any group or other..its harsh,,but the CD community needs to engage the brain before linking associations

Sorry but it is society that has tagged us onto the gay community because they have to pigeonhole everyone and because the general opinion outwith those who dress is that the general held view is all CD's are gay and you are correct, that perception has set us back years.

IMO anyone disagreeing with that fact are kidding themself.

So lets tag them onto the gay community because they are gay anyway.

This is the major preconception that needs to be challenged by our community.

Xx Vicky xX

[Noxvictum]

I've been trying to figure out how to word this forever, so bear with me. I think we're similar to gay guys in a way. They're sexually similar to women, where as we're psychologically similar. Both with varying intensities and tastes, of course. Does that make sense to you guys?

[michelle64]

It's an attitude like this that will make gays and straights think you are a total ass and treat you like an outcast..

thats fine whatever you think..in my estimation the CD community should NOT have have tied association with the GLB community..far as an outcast?...i firmly believe we have become more outcast due to the tie-in between ourselves and the gay community..it should never have been done but i know the reason...some in the CD community felt acceptance would be gained by the GLB association..it was not a smart decision

[TxCassie]

You know there are so many prespecitves as there are gay men. One one hand, many gay men to tend to shun us gurls. One of the challenges of being gay for many men is that they fear of being seen as a sissy, pansy, and effemininte.

Many take the attitude that they are men and they like men, so if they wanted a woman, they be straight. Much like how the straight community view the gay men as violating the rules, giving up their own masculinity, many a gay men view us gurls as violating the rules and giving up our masculinity. So, far away they delibrately stay.

Now, of course, as gay men grow older and wiser, attitudes change. I think gay men realize there is a difference in sexuality and gender, sexual attraction and gender roles. Of couse, iwe see that the younger generations seem to be more accepting than the older ones, so attitudes in general change over time.

Finally, we must realize gay men are attacted to men, not women. And in a soical setting, while they may be polite and accpeting, they want to connect with other men. Other than a gay man who interested in TGals, I can understand the aloofness a gal can pick up on by many gay men.

Like so many social interaction, the behivor or a singular gay man may be totally accepting while he is alone, but once the group dynamic takes hold, he becomes part of the group and takes on the group's behvior values.

Cassie.

[deja true]

There's something about hearing "Gay men are only atracted to other men...etc..." over and over again that keeps making me cringe a little. And I think it's because it seems to me that it plays on a stereotype that gay men are always "on the make". That can't be true, can it?

Gay men easily and often make friends with women, especially straight women. So it's not that they are "anti-femme". Maybe, (to borrow a bit from another stereotype about them), it's that they are just against the poorly dressed! :D

(Please note that the large "toungue in cheek" smiley belongs right here!)

[Sherry-Stephanie]

I'm socializing at a gay bar now...been there a few times...gay guys aren't breaking the door down to talk to us...why should they...they're gay and they're into guys and we coming across as a girl??? That being said I've engaged in conversation with a number of gay guys...partly from being introduced by others who are known in the club...or by those guys who have a certain "curosity about us....but never any thing negative..although from some I get the "tolerated" feeling...but the same as in ther straight communty...

GGs be it straight or gay whole different story....total acceptance, helpful, make you feel like your one of them right from the start...and ladies room nada as well...just like one of the girls...standing there putting on make up like they do and BSing with them or they with us....nothing out of the unusual and they ususally will start the conversation...much prefere women over me...

[Angelofsomekind]

In the Gay community? I think we kinda are. But the reason I don't mind is because I'm not gay. Women are just too damn beautiful for me to ever want to do anything with a guy. I do find it odd that they should understand that we just want to be who we want to be and since we aren't hurting anyone, what difference does it make.

Beyond that, I have noticed some negative comments from people here to other people here's posts. Perhaps I am just reading things the wrong way but I've seen people call other people's coments lame and things like that and big arguments follow. Why should other people accept us if we don't accept eachother? I will never be anything but positive to anyone here and I hope others are the same way.

[mklinden2010]

>>I would'nt call it over-all freindly, particurely by the gay guys. The lesbians are more freindlier and aproachable. The gay guys at times seem as though they dont want to know us sometimes, and ignore us... Some of the comments I've received from gay guys are "I just cant understand why a man would want to wear a dress or full ladys regalia"... I'm getting the impression that, although its a safe place, does'nt mean we are liked by the gay community.


It's empowering to me to accept that crossdressing, and liking it, and doing it again and again, puts me on the gay side of life.

I don't have a problem with that. It's about sex, gender, and personal choices and I'd be silly not to argue that when it comes to sex, gender, and personal choices, I do belong in the enlightened gay community... Just as much as I belong in the larger communities of life - like work, neighborhood, church, family, etc. We're not all the same, but we do have similarities. By those similarities we can be grouped.

Now, you wrote that someone said, "I don't get the dress thing." I respond, "Yeah, and I'm not into leather pants with no bottoms... But, you know what? To each their own. I don't have to understand their interest, I only have to respect their right to chose what they do and support them in their right to do what pleases them and hurts no one."

I find no major differences between people in groups. There are always leaders and followers, pedants and clowns, rich and poor. Most people are accepting of others, and there are always a few a**holes in every batch of people.

Does the gay community like us and accept us?

It does if you like and accept yourself and others and make the effort to let other people know, "You're good people; I'm with you!"

[Megan70]

.....Some of the comments I've received from gay guys are "I just cant understand why a man would want to wear a dress or full ladys regalia". I'm getting the impression that, although its a safe place, does'nt mean we are liked by the gay community. I think(in my opinion) drag shows go over well for the performance and entertainment, but not for crossdressers. I could be wrong, and it could be 50/50 too. What do you girls think from experience or from what you've heard?

I can tell you that the top pro drag queen performer in our city who is gay and with partner echoed those EXACT words above" could not understand why a guy would want to wear womens clothes" Their "type" of guys wear theyn only for drag shows and entertainment purposes, and to mock and impersoante women on not such a friendly scale.After the show the makeup comes off the clothes put away and its back to guy clothes. They get no sexual pleasure from itlike we do. This queen said in an interview that crossdressers " gave her the willies'
Well exc-c-c-c-cu-u-u-u-us-s-s-s-s-se ME!

[HalloweenDragon]

So far.....at the gay/lesbian bar called Rainbow Cactus here in Phoenix, I've gone in there 3 times without any bad vibes or anything. They hold drag shows I believe once or twice a month. Some of the gay men whistled at me once, so hopefully the patrons stay friendly.

[crusadergirl]

In the Gay community? I think we kinda are. But the reason I don't mind is because I'm not gay. Women are just too damn beautiful for me to ever want to do anything with a guy. I do find it odd that they should understand that we just want to be who we want to be and since we aren't hurting anyone, what difference does it make.

Beyond that, I have noticed some negative comments from people here to other people here's posts. Perhaps I am just reading things the wrong way but I've seen people call other people's coments lame and things like that and big arguments follow. Why should other people accept us if we don't accept eachother? I will never be anything but positive to anyone here and I hope others are the same way.

I agree with u on that angelofsomekind. As for if we are outcasts of the gay community i don't think we are. But i'm not a part of that community i'm an outcast in my own world not theres.

[baby beluga]

i'd say so.

besides, the letters lgbt are in that order for a reason.

[carrie-ann]

I have found around the U.S. that the GLB are not accepying here in this country. I've been out for almost 35 years pluss. I'm bi too they dont get that either. My neighbor says hes a freind of the GLBT comunity till I came out not so much. So both sides have their issues.

[Violetgray]

on record right now..i do not support any of the gay agenda...we in the CD community for even wanting association from those groups were dumb and stupid..outcome is all CD's are gay...that perception has set us back years..i am married to a GG..completely straight..for the stupidity of a few CD'ers i refuse to associate with any group or other..its harsh,,but the CD community needs to engage the brain before linking associations


CD's and Gays did not really link together to begin with, it's just that society backed us all into the same corner. And for a while we all had to push back together, because mainstream society often does not bother to differentiate between gay and transwhatever. But it seems like the further we get out of our mutual corner
, the more we want to travel our seperate ways..

Besides, what about GAY crossdressers?

[Fab Karen]

The gay agenda is the same as our agenda, or any human's agenda: to be treated with respect ( sing it Aretha ).

[paulaW]

Besides, what about GAY crossdressers?


Well, I'm too young to get into gay bars, so I don't know anything about that, but I'm a gay crossdresser.

When I dress and walk thru the gay section of town, I sometimes get funny looks, "Hey, kid, you don't belong here" sort of things. When I dress and just go to the mall, I don't think I'm noticed so much.

Seems like it's mostly bisexual guys that are attracted to me more than gay guys, tho.

[dragdoll]

i personally hate gay bars and don't involve myself in the gay community whatsoever anymore for this very reason. i've gotten some of the dirtiest looks and worst vibes from men at gay bars that i don't even go anymore. even women there give weird vibes sometimes. yet these same people will cheer and clap while watching the "drag show". its a double standard: if you're a drag performer up on stage lipsynching to whitney houston songs you're ok, if you're just hanging out by the bar you're an outcast. you're better off going to straight bar/club that has an 80s night or a gothic/alternative night or something.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Hi, first off I haven't posted in a very, very long time so I'll re-introduce myself, my girl name is Alyssa and I'm a 27 year old CD from Columbus, OH.

Anyway, to the issue at hand, I think it is hard to place a blanket statement on this topic because everyone is different, so it's hard to be like "here's what gay people think!"

I know that here in Columbus we have a "t-party" night at a gay bar downtown that is hosted by URNOTALONE every month, and the bar is at all other times sort of a dive-ish gay bar. To be totally honest, while I respect that the bar is providing us with a safe place to go dressed, for me it doesn't do much for me in the realm of a fun night out, because I feel like the patrons there tolerate or ignore the trans folk at best. The evenings resemble a jr. high school dance to me, the tgirls in one area and the boys in another and very little mingling occurs.

On the other hand, the other times I've been out mostly were to lesbian bars with a friend of mine who was also a lesbian herself. I actually felt a lot better there, but maybe that was because I was out with friends and part of a group, so I just felt more included in general.

[cdterri]

Think about it!, They are men who like men, why would they, or how could they understand what it is that interests us?

[Princess Chantal]

Hmmm, I noticed that many posts in this thread has been focusing on the gay club scenes......... Keep in mind that the gay community is more than the club scene. Therefore is it proper to judge the gay community by basically the small percentage that frequent the clubs?