Passing out

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Hi girls. I said hello again in another thread too but let me just quickly re-introduce myself. I'm a 27 year old crossdresser from Columbus OH. My last post here was just a little over a year ago and even then I was never a super active poster. However, I've started to be a lot more open this summer with my crossdressing and so I finally stumbled upon this site again and am hoping to get more active in posting. (Though I admittedly often find it hard to commit to forums for a long time.)

Anyway, I'm probably going to accidentally step on some toes here so let me first just post the disclaimer that I perfectly respect that everyone dresses for their own reasons, and I support you, any of you, in finding the most you that you can be and would never begrudge anyone's choices or preferences in any way, so please understand that in the rest of this post I am specifically speaking about my own feelings and self expresssion and in no way mean it to be an attack on what you do or how you do it. (also, sorry for the long post)

Having said that, are there any other CDs out there on this board who feel like me, in that I dress more because I like the clothes than because I want to become/feel like a woman? TO be totally honest, even though I post as the name "Alyssa," I find myself less and less preferring to go by that name. To be it almost feels like a mask, like I've convinced myself that I have to hide behind this female persona because I like to wear stockings and heels and makeup and of course no "man" would do that, right so I must be trying to be a woman?

As I get older and more comfortable with the part of me that likes wearing "women's" clothes, the less I feel like I should have to pass. I actually feel like for me, "passing" is still society's way of trying to get me stuff myself into a little box and try to fit into where it wants me to belong. Going out the few times I have as "Alyssa," I didn't feel any different as a person than I do when I'm out as Ryan, I just had on clothes I liked a lot. My wig got annoying fast and my makeup, because I was covering up my facial hair, got a little hot eventually too. I felt like I was doing things that were uncomfortable so that I could wear the clothes that I wanted to wear that were comfortable.

Now, having said that, I understand that with lots of clothing in order to look good you need to do some things that aren't comfortable, such as layers of garments for a tuxedo, or eventually painful heels to make your legs kill in a specific dress. But I guess what bothered me more was the stuff that wasn't as comfortable that to me served against my purpose. Like, did I really look better because of all that concealer, or would it be better to just wear some light foundation, some fun eye makeup and facial hair be damned? Do I really need an bra and breast forms or should I find shirts that hang better without the need for boobs?

I occasionally venture out in male mode wearing skirts, mostly kilt or kilt-like garments, but I find when I do that I often need to make sure to make the rest of my outfit a bit more masculine or "guyish" anyway to off-set the skirt, and present a male image. But I think if I was totally honest with myself I would be happiest if I could find a way to look as good as I can in women's clothes without necessarily trying to look like a woman.

But here's the reason I post about this, I feel like aside from the comedic genius Eddie Izzard, I haven't really encountered another CD who feels this way. I am often met with true outrage from truly transgendered or transsexual folk who have made disparaging comments that I'm just some perv who gets off on wearing lingerie, or that somehow I make it harder for them to get acceptance in public because I present the freak image that they think hurts the movement, which is an odd accusation because I have yet to appear in public dressed the way I have described. I often feel like an outcast amongst outcasts, but am I truly alone? are there no other crossdressers out there who would prefer to dress "like" women rather than "as" women?

[Leelou]

Hi Alyssa, enjoyed your post. I definitely don't think you're alone. I think that "most" CD's have to come to the realization that they are not 100% passable. Most of us who have ventured out have realized that someone could read us, and we accept that.

I haven't been out a lot, but when I did I had a group of T-girls I'd hang out with. I knew I didn't pass, and I didn't care. I told that to one of the more passable gals, and she said "so you're a gender-f*uck". I guess that's a term, I'd never heard it before.

But the bottom line is that I really like women's clothes and I'm going to wear them.

[Amy Lynn3]

Hey, I'm with you on this. Nuf said.

[jeanine38]

Same here. I don't have the resources to try to pass, and I don't think that's ever been my goal. I just like women's clothes.

[joann426]

i feel the same as you alyssa i just love womens clothes to

[cdterri]

Ayssa,
I believe there are more of us than you think. I have posted before that I am completly comfortable just wearing a dress or top and skirt without the need for forms, wigs, or makeup. A man can look just as good wearing femnine attire as He does in drab. The trick is to know what looks good on you. If your comfortable and feel good don't worry what others think.

[cdterri]

Sorry Alyssa, forgot the l in your name. Need to proof read before I submit.

terri

[April Renee]

I feel the same way Alyssa. Good post,good thoughts.

April

Bad decisions make good stories.*

[sheidelmeidel]

I think a lot depends on how you conduct yourself. I assume you act entirely like a guy, like you would in your guy clothes. If so I think you're fine. People will probably just think you are making a fashion statement or maybe a sociopolitical statement of some sort. But if you act girlie and effeminate, trying to "partially pass", I think you run the risk of unnerving and annoying people (nothing to do with you and your appearance personally, just a general thing) and doing a disservice to other CDs in the process. I'm sure my opinion on this will annoy some people. I apologize in advance but that is my opinion.

[Diane Elizabeth]

Hi Alyssa, I feel the same way most of the time. I love to wear the clothing, but hate the extra work to "pass" in order to go out. On the one hand I just want to wear the womens clothing regardless of presenting as a male or female. And some people do wear dresses while presenting as a man. I am not brave enough to try it though.
But, I also feel a need to be a woman. When I do dress up I feel like a male in womens clothing instead. I feel good when I am in my heels and feel the stockings on my legs and depressed because I don't feel the woman in me. What is a gurl to do, hmmmm. DyLen

[sissystephanie]

Hi, Alyssa! I had a thread on here sometime ago pretty much asking the same question you asked. There are a lot of us here on this forum who dress just because we like to. No desire to be a woman! To my way of thinking, we are what should be called "Pure Crossdressers!" We like to wear the pretty clothes because we like the fit, feel and look of them! Maybe we wear a wig and makeup because that goes with the clothes. It is not because we want to become a woman! At least not in my case! I just like to dress like one. When my wife was alive she could fix my wig and do my makeup to the point where I really looked totally feminine! (Luckily, I don't have a prominent Adams apple!) Sadly, those days are gone forever! So now I just go out as a guy, but dressed totally feminine! BTW, I have natural 40 B's and always show them off with tight tops when out in public dressed! I'm happy, and I don't care what others think! Do your own thing and BE HAPPY!!!

:hugs:

[docrobbysherry]

Just don't go thinking most folks here dress only to pass. And that we're all TG/TS. There's quite a few here who dress only in private. And while the DETAILS of why we dress r as different as the seconds in a day, we DO have one thing in common.
We dress to SUIT OURSELVES!:D

You'll notice not EVERYONE here has a fem name. Change yours if u like. Do whatever you're comfortable with. If you don't feel like Alyssa, be who u r!:)


-------- truly transgendered or transsexual folk who have made disparaging comments that I'm just some perv who gets off on wearing lingerie, or that somehow I make it harder for them to get acceptance in public because I present the freak image. I often feel like an outcast amongst outcasts, but am I truly alone?

Hey! I represent that remark!:eek:

You're definitely NOT alone!:brolleyes:

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

am not brave enough to try it though.


This is my biggest problem with it too. the biggest thing for me is that I'm a professional comedian and have yet to find the way to make this material funny and relateable for my act so I've been afraid to look too much like myself when in public dressed up, so I wear slightly more makeup than I'd like (I really only want to wear eye makeup and a tiny bit of foundation) and I still wear the wig in my photo. I'd love to be able to wear a skirt, a fitted shirt, no wig, some eye liner, and maybe some pantyhose and heels without trying to "pass" at all. But I'm still a little paranoid about my career with that, and also don't want to rip off Izzard.

[Frédérique]

But here's the reason I post about this, I feel like aside from the comedic genius Eddie Izzard, I haven't really encountered another CD who feels this way. I am often met with true outrage from truly transgendered or transsexual folk who have made disparaging comments that I'm just some perv who gets off on wearing lingerie, or that somehow I make it harder for them to get acceptance in public because I present the freak image that they think hurts the movement, which is an odd accusation because I have yet to appear in public dressed the way I have described. I often feel like an outcast amongst outcasts, but am I truly alone? are there no other crossdressers out there who would prefer to dress "like" women rather than "as" women?


I’ll tell you, Alyssa, sometimes it just isn’t fair to be thrown into the same stew pot with everyone else, but little or nothing can be done about it. I think people who seek some form of acceptance for themselves should flat out accept others, regardless whether or not they agree with or like what you do. This exclusionist attitude really confuses me – I’ve bumped into it three times in the last month alone here on this site. To be fair, I have wonderful friends from every niche of our little universe, but why can’t we all be equally tolerant of one another. I just don’t get it…

You mentioned Eddie Izzard – he gets up before a mixed audience and explains his definition of himself as a transvestite, according to his life on his terms, and he explains it well. I was just watching one of his concerts the other night, as a matter of fact. My transvestism happens to be a lot like his – what a coincidence. But if Eddie was a highly closeted crossdresser, or a transsexual, or a female impersonator, or any one of the multitude of variations you can be in this world (whether you want to be or not), I certainly wouldn’t be “outraged” at his behavior. I accept everybody here, and I would accept anybody anywhere – how could it be otherwise?

I was watching the documentary film “Resident Alien” the other night (about Quentin Crisp in NYC, circa 1989), and a very similar thing happened. In the film, Mr. Crisp went to speak at the local gay and lesbian center, since that was where his audience could be found. He was in his 80’s at the time, and he spoke about his life as a homosexual in England in the earlier part of the 20th century. His audience was mainly older gay men, with a few younger men and one woman. Since Mr. Crisp came from a time when gays were openly effeminate in manner and gesture, some of his comments outraged the gays listening to him on this day – some of them were downright hostile, since they saw his effeminate appearance and viewpoint as a barrier to their own acceptance. In short, he wasn't "gay" enough (in 1980's terms). How selfish of them. I couldn’t understand why gays would not (for the most part) accept one of their own, regardless of what time and place he came from, or what his take on the whole situation was. Mr. Crisp said nothing when confronted with this opposition, which only increased my admiration for this true gentleman and survivor. People, from whatever walk of life they’re from, should look beyond the trappings of their lifestyles (chosen or otherwise) and see the person before them – then, and only then, will everyone be accepted as they wish to be.

[Nicole Erin]

We all have our own reasons and extents that we go with our TG-ness.

Me, I like the look of myself when I am en femme, but honestly I hate the process of doing it. All my clothes are woman's but I don't wear stuff like ball gowns or wedding dresses, I do not even like skirts, it is just me.

Thing is, in the TG community, there will be those who tell others they are not real because of this or that.

LAbels do not matter, what matters is you live as you see fit, since it is your life

And wearing woman clothes cause you like the feel? Heh, do you not know how many other CD do that? I think most of us at some point like to "enjoy" pantyhose or panties or a corset or whatever, it is natural.

[Angie G]

I hear what your saying and agree one should dress as one likes. I've always said you do your thing ans I'll do mine. I love wearing a bra if you don't that fine And so forth. That the great thing about living in the free world.:hugs:
Angie

[Tracy_Victoria]

Hi Alyssa, thats an interesting post. for myself, i'm one of those that likes to dress as a woman, not dress in the clothes of a woman, ie I want to cross that gender boundary, and thats why I dress. ie wearing a skirt, or a dress, or even knickers under my male clothes has no interest to me, ie it all or nothing.

As for your senario, there are people here that do this, ie want to wear (and do wear in public) the clothes of a woman, yet not look like a woman, ie buffalo bill springs to mind as one, anthers does as well but sadly I can't remember there name (sorry!)

To be honest, it is a case of time, ie it just has not caught up with the male dress yet, but I'm sure it will in time! At present we stereotype our clothes in to male, and female wear, which is suprising as a 100 years ago, you would not have seen a woman in trousers, sadly it may be another 100 years before we see men in dresses, but this will only happen if people push the boundaries as the woman did at the turn of the century. However for me, it would make little difference, because to me as I said it not about wearing a dress, or a skirt, or about wearing a wig, to me it about the whole package, and looking different to my every day me, I have no desire at all to be a woman, just every now and then I try my very best to look like one!

[emmlouise]

I say live and let live. You have I think, successfully analysed your liking for crossdressing. I wish I had! I seem to have different reasons and feelings at different times. sometimes it may be sexual, but more often it is because I just like the look and feel of clothes. However, I also love wearing makeup and perfume. I don't want to be a women, but I love to look like one and feel like my perception of a women when I am dressed.

[Hope]

Well I certainly don't understand myself the way you understand yourself - but it's a big world and there has to be room for all of us in it.

I certainly understand the others who see the cross dressers who dress just for "thrills" as potentially making our public lives a little more difficult (potentially a LOT more difficult, depending on how you conduct yourself in public) but I don't think that is sufficient reason for you to refrain from dressing. Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, girls gotta dress.

[Shari]

There is such a wide range of feelings and reasons here that almost anything you do or feel fits in.
This forum and its members run the gamut from something as basic as wearing only a pair of cotton panties to the full blown transgendered.

Do not think yourself odd or out of place. Especially don't think that you're stepping on anybody's toes with your actions. Do what makes your heart flutter, not what anybody else says it should be. There are no real rules for anybody here.

As far as ripping off Eddie Izzard, he is an "executive" transvestite.
Maybe you can be a blue collar transvestite.

[Cathy J]

I have to agree with Alyssa in that I have no interest or intention of passing. I have always (and that's a long time) dressed because I like the looks and feel ol the clothes. I wear forms and I tuck, wear a wig, use light minimal make-up and generally make myself as female looking as is possible with what I have to work with. I try for a reasonable looking woman to look back at me from my mirror. I am in the closet and will remain here as "outing myself" could cause more problems than it's worth!!

Don't worry and be happy you own way!

Hugs,

[sometimes_miss]

dress "like" women rather than "as" women
For some of us, we stop thinking of it as crossing a clothing gender barrier. We just wear what we feel that we should be wearing without really thinking about it. Example; when I wake up, I'm already wearing girl pajamas. I go to the bathroom, take a shower, then come back to the bedroom and go straight to the dresser with fem clothes in it, and automatically start dressing in my female clothing. It's no longer a conscious decision to dress 'like a girl'. That 'what am I going to look like' feeling occurs later if I have to go out somewhere, and even then, it's difficult to take the girl clothes off and put the guy clothes on, because that's the behavior that feels abnormal.

["Mary"]

Hey Alyssa,

Nice disclaimer up front on this.

What a great thought provoking discussion. I totally see where you're coming from and that's cool. I sort of wish I felt the same way as that mindset is a lot more straight forward and you can explain it well. I, on the other hand, also like the idea of becoming a woman for a while.

I think we all relish different facets of our personality. The rugby player that likes the opera, the librarian who digs loud rock concerts.... The banker who sometimes likes to spend the weekend in raggedy casual clothes and enjoys the grittier low budget scene. I suppose this is sort of like that for me. I like being with other people a lot. Sometimes I like to be alone.
I love taking care of my family. Once in a while I like someone to take care of me.
I love doing precision work to make complicated things work exactly right. Sometimes, I get a lot of satisfaction from savage work using chainsaw and maul to fell trees and split firewood.
I used to thrive on keeping my company working with a purpose and moving toward a specific goal. I also enjoyed being part of a boisterous festive crowd that heaved about and out of control.
I love being a guy. Sometimes, I like being a woman and everything it entails.

[dragdoll]

i thought this thread was going to be about falling asleep while dressed and having someone walk in on you :confused:

[Ralph]

I too thought from the subject that there would be some heavy drinking involved, or waking up in a hospital with people asking about the way you were dressed.

Alyssa, I see you joined several years ago so presumably you have seen many of the threads regarding "blokes in frocks" vs. all-girls. As you can see from my login name I don't even use a female name or have an alternate identity that is all female - I'm just Ralph, in a dress. And as others have noted, there are plenty of us here.

As far as Izzard goes, he's not the first guy to mine comedy out of a dress - for decades Milton Berle owned that schtick. But I would suggest you think about why you want to do that at all... would it just be more material for your act, or do you want to just be accepted as a male comedian who happens to wear a skirt? There's a lot of opportunity here for making a positive impact on the public's impressions of crossdressers... you can joke about the trouble you have with the reactions from uninformed people, shopping, etc. but still use that as a way to show that guys in dresses are still guys with normal guy impulses.