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Julie
07-18-2005, 08:28 AM
Tristen started a thread on the MTF fourm that showed drab/femme pics. So I thought I'd join in the fun and do a before and after pic of me. After I was done I looked at the pics and realized how much I liked Jim. He's been a great dad, a great brother, a great friend and a great leader. I'm not blowing smoke, these are comments I have heard over and over from those who know me. And he's an integral part of who I am.

When I saw that pic of me in a happier time of my life I thought, "Why would you want to change this?" I've been told so many times I make such a great guy, why would I want to be a woman? And yet, I still want that. But I realized I also want to be that guy too.

What is so hard is the internal struggle. I see all I have done as a guy and it's impressive. Could I have done that as a woman? I hear my daughter talk and I know she needs her dad. I completely understand that. My dad was a great man and even though he's been gone for almost a decade, I still miss him. Why would I be willing to take that away from her? And I take that and apply it to situation after situation and I come up with the same thing - I can't let Jim die.

I wonder if this dilemma happens to other TSs? It makes me wonder if I'm TS or maybe just TG.

Tristen Cox
07-18-2005, 08:38 AM
Okay you may have a point there - but I never saw myself happy until I was looking at myself made over as a girl. And I still feel ichy in this male body, just the site of it, the sound of my own voice ,etc...and so like where's the pics hmm? :D

ChristineRenee
07-18-2005, 08:49 AM
It's probably a good thing for you Julie that you didn't go on and transition. I really believe that there is a huge difference between being TG and TS. Most TS's seem to really loathe their maleness and want to be rid of it. I don't get that feeling from you particularly with this last post. I think we are somewhat alike in this regard...despite the fact that you are out in public with your feminine side and I am not. We both have strong feminine personas yet have lived our lives primarily as the genetic males that we are. Additionally, you have kids as well...and I do not...and it's obvious that you love them very much and don't want to deprive them of not having their dad around anymore. I guess we will both remain in that middle ground....in having a part of us in both worlds. All in all not such a bad place to be hon! Thanks for sharing your feelings with us.:hugs:

Love,
Chrissie:)

Julie
07-18-2005, 08:51 AM
...and so like where's the pics hmm? :D

Here:

:censor:





In that guy pic I had just finished playing 18 holes in the Florida sun, hence the serious suntan.

ChristineRenee
07-18-2005, 08:56 AM
Wow Julie...you transform very well hon...great looking guy into a great looking woman! I definitely would keep them both if I were you sis!:thumbsup: :cool:

Tristen Cox
07-18-2005, 08:56 AM
Aww now see there :) :thumbsup: I think that's the first time I've ever seen the 'other' you. Florida sun huh? Gawd don't remind me. I have to go outside and cut some wood in a few minutes, sure I'll need a shower directly afterwards from the heat.

Thanks Julie(psst you can take them down now if you want;) )

Julie
07-18-2005, 09:06 AM
Florida sun huh? Gawd don't remind me. I have to go outside and cut some wood in a few minutes, sure I'll need a shower directly afterwards from the heat.

I'll take the Florida weather to what we've had here lately. You walk outside and the humidity will gag you.

PS: I'll leave the pic up for a bit but if anyone at work ever got wind of this I'd be harassed into retirement, which I'm not ready to do. :o Outside of work, I don't care.

Carole/CCD
07-18-2005, 03:20 PM
Jules I have had the same thoughts many many times

MarinaTwelve200
07-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Hmmmm it seems as if many of you See your FEM SELF as your "real self" and your male self as a kind of "shell" that it hides in.

I , on the other hand see my MALE self as my REAL SELF, and my FEM SELF as a VEHICLE to get AWAY from my male self, and his problems obglations and responsibilities , if only for a few hours. I find it very psychologically interesting that we both use CD for different ends.

Im also finding other slight differences, which may or may not apply to all of you, but a tendancy to be a bit more open to "gay sex" than I would be, and a sense of social interaction (going out) that I would never consider. I consider myself and my CD very private.---My pic only appears because it looks SO DIFFERENT than my guy self---No I dont think I will post THAT ;-)

I think I represent a subculture of CD just as vast as yours (but less public) Ive read that many guys CD for the same reason I do. Indeed I have heard that many CDs are hetro males who have culturally male specific jobs, like truck drivers, computer programmers etc. and especially those that wear uniforms, like cops, firemen, etc. Im a Scientist, so I might not quite fit the norm there, but still, I have realized that I do it to ESCAPE myself.---Not that I hate myself , by any means, but I find that by NOT being "ME" I no longer have the "burden of Manhood" (ways i have to sit talk act, etc.) to carry around with me i can release myself emotionally, and really UNWIND.

Once I Unwind I feel NO more need or desire to CD until the urge comes once again( likely due to "pressure buildup"?) Cd is like a FIX or drug.

It is interesting as how different it is for me than most of you all describe. But some similiarties are intriguing---We see a CD phase about age 4-6 that fades out and then get into actual CD about age 12 or so---before, ive noticed, the stress of 'manhood " sets in---But STILL I CD for different reasons---I suspect nearly ALL boys might have encountered the "second phase"---as a one or 2 shot "curiosity "---Those of us who remain CD might be those who find their own USE for it---some for realizing their female side and some who discover it as an escape mechanisim.----

Of course its all seculation, but these differences facinate me.

Deborah757
07-18-2005, 06:25 PM
In the spirit of this thread, here is a serious question for any armchair, or real, psychologists. Would you say I am TS, TG, or CD? (One day I probably should see a real therapist, but there aren't any within a 100 mile of where I live.)

I starded crossdressing when I was about ten. What my thoughts were before that I really can't remember. However, I do remember very strongly that my CDing was specifically linked to the conviction that I was supposed to be female. I dreamed about it, I daydreamed about it, and I prayed about it. I think I even talked in my sleep about it. I slept crossdressed in the hope that maybe I would wake up in the right body.

Eventually my parents found out and told me I was crazy. So I, not knowing at the time (1973) that I was not the only one like this, pushed it back and instead became the epitome of machoness (is that a word?:D )

Eventually I joined the Army and became a "leader of men", airborne-ranger-infantryman. I was even pretty successful at it. Howerver, while I could suppress it for a while, especially where circumstances dictated, the CDing never went away nor did the thought that I was TS.

That brings me to today. Obviously I am still a CD and I still believe I am TS. But I have learned my male role, I am pretty good at it, and I have a family including children.

So my true feelings right now are that I am still TS and I believe I would still want to go all the way with it. But I am bothered by the fact that if I were to do that it would destroy my present life for un uncertain future in which I may or may not fit in. With the exception of the TS part my present life is happy and successful. Would I be happier if I were to destroy everything I currently have for the promise of potential happiness as a woman? I wrestle with this question every day. Does this uncertainty make me not TS? I just don't know.

MarinaTwelve200
07-18-2005, 06:42 PM
Deb

You sound like the classic AUTOGYNOPHILE (AG) its a "non homosexual transsexualisim" Its a relatively new term but describes certian individuals that may WANT to be women---but not because they have 'woman brains" like typical "Homesexual" Transseuals we are familiar with, but because ,as the name implies AUTO (self ) GYNO (woman) PHYLE (love) describes a normally heterosexual male who is effectively "in love" with "his female within"

The typical pattern usually is as you describe--initial feelings and desires to be a woman starting at puberty, supression and eventually adapting to a male role very well. To the point of being married and having kids and raising a family. AGs tend to "transition Late in life (if they do at all) after the kids are gone, etc. as opposed to the TSs that do it in younger years.

AG is said to be a strongly INTERNALIZED hetrosexualisim. A very interesting study

Deborah757
07-18-2005, 07:01 PM
Deb

You sound like the classic AUTOGYNOPHILE (AG) its a "non homosexual transsexualisim" Its a relatively new term but describes certian individuals that may WANT to be women---but not because they have 'woman brains" like typical "Homesexual" Transseuals we are familiar with, but because ,as the name implies AUTO (self ) GYNO (woman) PHYLE (love) describes a normally heterosexual male who is effectively "in love" with "his female within"

The typical pattern usually is as you describe--initial feelings and desires to be a woman starting at puberty, supression and eventually adapting to a male role very well. To the point of being married and having kids and raising a family. AGs tend to "transition Late in life (if they do at all) after the kids are gone, etc. as opposed to the TSs that do it in younger years.

AG is said to be a strongly INTERNALIZED hetrosexualisim. A very interesting study

Maybe, but I'm not sure. On the brain sex thing, I took the brain sex test on the BBC website that was posed yesterday in the MTF forum. I tested higher than the average male in all the "male" areas and higher than the average female in all the "female" areas. So, what does that mean?

As for the strongly internalized heterosexualism, without going into gritty details, I'm not so sure of that either.

This is all so very confusing.+?

GypsyKaren
07-18-2005, 08:19 PM
Until now I've always hated my male self. He was such a failure, but it wasn't his fault. There were evil things done to me when I was a little kid that forever shaped me, so I was doomed to failure. Karen was always strong, I think if I had let her run the show my life would have been much better.
Now that I have beaten down my demons and learned to accept who I am and love myself for it, things are much better for me. I realize now that as bad as it was for me, it could have been worse, and Garry, as much as he failed, at least tried his best and is a survivor.
Like I said, I now am learning to love myself, and I'm working on my male image too. Since I'm an old hippie who can"t grow anymore hair, I decided to shave my head entirely. I also got me some tatoos on and both ears pierced, so now I do indeed look like a gypsy. Yes, life ain't so bad after all.
GypsyKaren

Julie
07-18-2005, 10:24 PM
Marina,

You sound like a typical crossdresser.

The reason I posted this in the transsexual forum was because the subject was directed towards those who identify as TS. If that's the case, you feel female inside and trapped within a male body. All TSs I know would change their physical gender if the circumstances were right. But issues like family situations, money, the likelyhood of still looking like a man even after all the surgeries and HRT tend to put up serious roadblocks to transitioning.

I started this thread because I had come to the realization that I don't want to 'kill' my male self which would happen if I transitioned.

And your definition of AG needs correcting when you said that TSs transition early in life and AGs late in life. Those who commonly transition late in life are referred to as secondary transsexuals and aren't in love with the woman within. They just reached that point in their life where they either realized they can no longer fight it off or they finally got up the courage to stand up to all the pressure and criticism they'd get or maybe some other circumstances happened that compelled them to transition. It's misleading to infer ALL late transitioners are AG.

MarinaTwelve200
07-18-2005, 10:38 PM
Maybe, but I'm not sure. On the brain sex thing, I took the brain sex test on the BBC website that was posed yesterday in the MTF forum. I tested higher than the average male in all the "male" areas and higher than the average female in all the "female" areas. So, what does that mean?

As for the strongly internalized heterosexualism, without going into gritty details, I'm not so sure of that either.

This is all so very confusing.+?

Yes, it IS confusing in such strongly emotionally charged matters, its hard to make ourselves think about such things, and even THEN you cannot trust your own conclusions as denyals, fears, "counter compensations", etc. cloud our own logic.----it took ME years to figure out what was going on with ME--The first fears are those of "homosexuality" (HS) (a really big deal years ago) I got over that hurdle by intently studying what HS was REALLY about and remembering experiences when I had been faced with potential HS situations and my actions in response----Well, needless to say I was "clear' in THAT category, but i found I NEVER could trust my "feelings" or thoughts for that matter, i had to look at what I DID, and THAt convinced ne that I had NO attraction for males---a big releif, that let me think with more clarity, still it didnt answer the WHY CD problem for me.

I studied different people's reasons for CD to see which made more sense to ME---But I could see the danger of choosing a reason that was "Least objectionable" rather than what might really be the truth---Well, remembering experiences I noticed that I actually FOUGHT attempts to feminize me by others (like by jokesters and big sisters, etc) and i was sincere too--so I figgured from THAT I really did NOT want to CD---but why still the compultion?

Well, it seems that I may have a bit of masochisim in me--the idea of being forcefully humiliated turns me on---humiliation is painful, BUT the RUSH is pleasurable---enough to make me want to actualy pursue the 'pain"---Also i discovered that there are obscure "disorders" that closely parallell CD/TV

"Furries" and "transformationists" where humans want to be, or fantacize about ANIMALS the same way CD/TV people relate to the opposite sex---but without the sexual /gender element---a clue that sex/ gender is NOT the thing, but IDENTITY, in the latter case HUMAN vs ANIMAL---rather than Male vs female---other Identity levels might be male vs male--such as Joe Jones vs Jack Williams, on one side of the spectrum and animate vs inanimate on the other.
There are several "levels" of identity and identity is a deeply rooted psyological aspect of the brain--there are extreme psychologal reactions when one of these levels is threatened or disturbed---ofttimes the reaction is a kind of quasi -erotic "rush", that one might confuse with a sexual response, but it is really a PRIMAL FEAR of identity loss. Some of us may learn to trigger it by symbolically threatening ID loss be dressing as another person, a person of the opposite sex, or even an animal---(working on different ID levels)---Its possible the person could get addicted to the RUSH.

Yes FEAR can be erotic--witness the popularity of horror movies.

---just thoughts to ponder.


Excuse me for getting "wound up' in my psychology mode ;-)

Deborah757
07-18-2005, 11:13 PM
I studied different people's reasons for CD to see which made more sense to ME---But I could see the danger of choosing a reason that was "Least objectionable" rather than what might really be the truth---

Yeah, after 35 years of being a CD/TG/TS? I am still doing the same. Would it make it any easier if I knew for sure; without doubt? I don't know, but I am forever searching for the answer to the question, Who Am I?

Rachel Ann
07-19-2005, 12:57 AM
A hair off topic, but I always thought of CD and TS as subsets of TG. Of course there also non-TG CDs. I guess the lingo is still shaking itself out.