FtM > FtMtF Cders.

[NiCo]

Not quite sure where this goes...move it if it's in the wrong place.

Have you guys heard of this…

That it’s relatively common for transmen to transition from [hate this] “female” to male and then once they are happy they pass as men…to crossdress to female…

Don’t ask where I got this from…a magazine lol.

It’s interesting though…because I haven’t heard a MtF crossdressing to male…and my own thoughts as to why this is, is as follows:

Have you noticed how much more common it is for trans people to be either Cders [as in men dressing in female clothing], TV’s and MtF’s [transsexual,] compared to the less common FtMs? Well maybe…just maybe…the fact us guys are born with male brains…it’s like…I don’t know…a normal fetish associated with men?

[Lets erase MtFs from this now, cause they are women]

Do you understand what I’m saying? I’m not saying every single one of you guys do this…I’m not saying I do…I’m just saying from what I have read. Init.

Another thing, I can accept this…cause, why should we be limited to doing things other guys might?

Personally I have a fetish for BDSM. Other people have fetishes for tights…smoking fetishes [even though they know it’s harmful?]…etc etc etc…so why can’t a transman have a fetish for crossdressing too?

I think this is interesting. You may not…you may? I dunno, but I’m posting this to see what you all think on this matter.

At this moment in time, crossdressing does not appeal to me [I’m afraid I’d pass too well and might anger a few xdressers ;) <<< joke] but who knows…my reason: My dad had this “tradition” kind of thing where at Christmas [or any other get-together family happening] where he’d dress up…and one Christmas he came into the lounge wearing a PVC dress and a Santa Claus coat, beard and stockings etc and called himself “Sandra Claus” and it was hilarious.

He did it for fun. He did it to make people laugh. And I’m a lot like my dad [even though I would like to deny this, I cannot]. I have the same weird humour as he does…

I see it also this way…if I act all macho all the time, who is to say that due to this…people are going to question me for being overly macho? If I vigorously refuse to dress up for Halloween as female, when all my male mates are, will they not question this? And what would I say? Hell no…I’d do it! Cause it’s all fun and games…I guess…

Anyway, am I making sense or talking sh*t once again? Lol. :heehee:

[Ze]

Good points. I've never really stopped to think about some of this.

But to be honest, I have no idea what to respond to this other than yeah, I get what you're saying. :)

You're answers for "why?" or "why not?" are likely cultural, though. Though even that I can't explain properly at the moment.

Yeah, I'm useless. :D

[SirTrey]

I have known a couple of transguys who have done exactly what you are talking about....and it made Me really wonder why....so I have no answers when it comes to that....I personally have no desire to dress female, ever....I didn't when I was growing up and I don't now....but it is a curious thing to Me when I see transguys do that....I know one who does drag shows....I have never been able to wrap My head around that one....Too complicated for My pea brain to figure out, LOL.....but an interesting topic, I give you that. :thumbsup:

[Ze]

Yeah, and it makes you wonder then...

If we had been born genetically male, would we be more apt to a drag show or something? Is it because we truly don't have a taste for it or are we just trying our best to assign ourselves to the proper gender?

I'm not making any sense again. :doh: Either way, I think most transmen don't willingly dress in women's clothes for a laugh is because we were traumatized as children.

[NiCo]

Well there is a load of guys who don’t dress up, and there is a load that does…why should transguys be different? We don’t have to slot into that category where everything we do HAS to be MALE, OR, if that’s the case…then men xdress…so transguys can too?

I’m confused now.

-leaves for a cigarette-

Lol.

[SirTrey]

Maybe they do it to get in touch with their former lives in some way? Like they never got past mourning the person they once were (or were perceived as)? Just an idea, because I have no clue.

[Ze]

Yeah, I think transguys could cross-dress, but I think at the same time we're fighting women's clothes to begin with, so...

I dunno. :lol:

Not saying no transman is allowed to do it or anything, but I can definitely see why few transmen would want to do it.

At the same time, though, perhaps it's some sort of security thing. You feel so comfortable in your projected masculinity that it's not a thread to your passing to cross-dress?

[NiCo]

I think it's more realistically the fact they are confident about their feelings of being male rather than holding onto the past.

My feminine traits were flung in the bin along with the other sh*t but it doesn't mean i wouldn't do it for a laugh? If all my mates done it, i'd look an idiot to refuse...seeing how i'm always one to do mad sh*t, they'd expect me to be the same and would question me if i refused.

Also, when i've got a drink in me, everything seems like a good idea and i'm up for anything lol.

I dunno...i guess there is more to it than i put.

Because if you look at it this way.

MtFs: generally there is-
TV's
Cders
and transsexuals.

The first two are different to each other.

Well surely there are "sub-categories" to these.

FtMs...but CD, TV and TS Ftms.

What i mean is, the Cder could be doing it for fun, they like it occasionally [blah blah] and a FtM TV could be doing it as more fetish based...

Me is Confused.org.

Make sense? At least I know what I mean lol.

[SirTrey]

LOL...What a topic....There is the fact, though, that what others do can and does adversely affect us...ie: In a world of people who don't understand trans at all, this would tend to reinforce their stereotype that transfolks are just confused people, or mentally ill, or don't know what they want or who they are....and that does carry real life consequences for all of us....That may not be a popular thing to say in an age of "everything is fine" political correctness...but it is true, nonetheless.

[NiCo]

I agree. I can see what you are saying.

If it was open that a FtM was xdressing to female, they could be seen as confused. Hmmm...

That's probably why most don't admit it to anyone, or they feel the need to be macho all the time to "prove" that they are [as a medical pro would say] "true transsexual"

[SirTrey]

And until transsexualism is taken seriously, we will suffer discrimination, will not be able to get laws passed when we need to, and will be a joke to a good percentage of society....So, yeah, I admit I cringe when I see things like that.

[Ze]

LOL...What a topic....There is the fact, though, that what others do can and does adversely affect us...ie: In a world of people who don't understand trans at all, this would tend to reinforce their stereotype that transfolks are just confused people, or mentally ill, or don't know what they want or who they are....and that does carry real life consequences for all of us....That may not be a popular thing to say in an age of "everything is fine" political correctness...but it is true, nonetheless.

I have to actually agree. I'd never (or would you) tell somebody that they could or couldn't do something, but it starts to make the whole community even more misread if we're all lumped together. The general public seems to think that an individual represents a whole group. And that's a no-no for any group you're thinking about.

For me, I guess it comes down to the wish that society change its views pretty darn quick rather than us having to worry about how we're represented. I guess we'd all choose that if we could. But it's highly unlikely it'd happen, so we're stuck.

I wonder if any MtF (non-CD) ladies have done drag king stuff?

[NiCo]

I have to admit, i cringed a bit when i read this in the magazine. I thought "for f*** sake, not another portrayal that we are freaks" lol.

But, only the sh*tty stories are published often, not the real community. It's crap but i guess society needs something to laugh at cause they are too p*ssy to laugh at their selves!

I’d only do it as a laugh with my mates or if I was really really pissed [with my mates, obviously] but I’d probably not do it for a fetish…it’s not really as good as being smacked to the floor then chained to a sink and left for several hours…

Wait…………..

[SirTrey]

Take the pregnant transguy, for example....My opinion is that he did nothing but harm to the FtM community by putting himself out in front of the media like he did....because.....then society says, "Oh, so you want to be a man...you believe that you ARE a man....but you will default to chick if that gets you what you want"....A lot of transguys have kids, but generally, it's PRE-transition, not post-transition....If transsexuality is to be taken seriously, as a REAL entity, reinforcing stereotypes of confusion and compromise don't help our cause at all.

[NiCo]

That transguy who had that baby really freaked me out. Cause it made my dad look at me and he said "if you ever do anything like that, i'll f***ing kill you" [as in do what he did, get the media involved] cause my dad was thinking "why fling more fuel on the fire, bring a war to your doorstep"

All them years spent trying to pass and fit in, burned to ash in the fire.

Pointless.

And yeah, it's different if it's pre everything. Much different.

[ashcrimson]

My guess is that it is because of residual desires that still linger in these peoples heads. It is like a ratio in a way, a feeling that you are like 100% female or male, 50/50, or you dont always feel this strongly and it is just 20% of the other side - which leads to crossdressing at rare occasions or 80% which to some is enough to completely dress as the opposite of your biological sex. It is that +-20% that lingers at times that still create cravings within yourself that some feel they need to satisfy still. The actions become unbalanced because the signals on the brain are unbalanced. Note, numbers given are mere possible examples.

[NiCo]

In that case it would be bigender?

[Ze]

I think so, yeah.

Personally, I know I was getting confused at the beginning of my identity as to whether I was genderqueer or a transman. *shrugs* I think the labels can get confused, too. If you realize you're a genetic female with the desire to present yourself as a man, you might automatically consider yourself "FtM" when you don't also take into account your desires to also still dress feminine on occasion.

[ashcrimson]

Nico, if the question was addressed to me, I am not certain of the correct term for this. Sticking to the topic alone, I believe humans are constantly subjected to a composite made up of female and male desires for association. To most the signal carries more male properties so they decide to go for that image, the same goes for women. Usually humans seem to choose not to act upon the residual desire because other desires are more important to them like the need to be accepted. So in a way its also a balance of many things, things that are not related to it ~ it is a matter of priority and choosing which to satisfy.

People who have already taken the first step however, find it easier to try to satisfy both desires because they have already done the hard part, dressing as a man when you are a woman or vice versa. Wont it be easier for a biological woman to dress as a woman, if there would even be an effort that is? I am talking of course in terms of social matters since that is one of the major things that hinder a lot of us from crossdressing in the first place.

Everything that I am saying are mere assumptions and theories of course, this is not my field afterall and I can be wrong.

Addendum:
Ze, yes, that is why I believe there are people who have both desires - male and female. We have all just gotten used to labels, because it is simpler that way. Simpler isnt always accurate and correct.

[deja true]

I'm fascinated by this conversation ... but, like you guys, I'm a little confused by the whole thing ...

So I looked for a corollary from this side of the fence ... this may be one,or maybe not.

How about a trans woman (post SRS or not... doesn't matter, I think) who might find a thrill in dressing as an uber macho dude - cop, lumberjack, marlboro man - ... not all the time, but, as you say NiCo, as a lark.

Like your examples in the first post, it seems to me to be an expression of a genderqueer genderf*ck statement. While both, trans-men and trans-women, in no small part, seem to want to adhere more closely with their gender expression of choice, there are still quite a few who have a more radical (may I say anarchic?) sense of how they want to present or even play with gender roles. Maybe their point is to satirize or ridicule the whole notion of gender roles in society completely.

(Ya think maybe the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence out there in Kal-ee-for-nye-yay fit into this kind of thing somehow?)

Keep on lads, this is way thought provoking!

:)

[Ze]

Good point, Deja. :) And it makes it all the more confusing for me since I know some GQ people are their identities because they felt the need just like any of us, yet some GQ people are their identities because they simply want to mess with society. Like you said, in an anarchical way.

[NiCo]

Keep on lads, this is way thought provoking!


How do you think i feel lol, i think about all this stuff constantly!

Haha. I see what you are saying and it's quite interesting.

I love studying society and stuff...

I like taboo...

I'm an anarchist but only in general and not on a particular thing such as gender. Because it's all a bit "raw" to me at the moment, I’m still in shock at what i have had to endure and all the struggles.

Put it this way, i am neither wanting to prove anything nor am i confused lol.

[SirTrey]

Whenever any group tries to push a very radical concept down society's throat, it gets kicked to the curb...Acceptance is slow enough as it is.....Don't you think that society has to wrap its head around "transgender/transexual" before it can deal with 'bi-gender"? I think society would view bi-gender people as simply confused people who don't know WHO they are....and it muddies the water....The longer we go without acceptance, the longer we suffer as a group....As nice as it is to go to an all you can eat buffet, life is not one. It's enough to ask an employer to accept an employee who is transitioning from one gender to the next....Now we want to force them to accept an employee who will show up on random days presenting as two different people? Take emotion off the table for just one sec....Logic says that is not going to happen...At least not right now.

[4serrus]

I dunno man, this all sounds like politics to me. and **** politics.

Gender's not a binary and people are weird. Like, really effing weird.

And never trust anything you read in a magazine, half of its made up. Statistically there's just as many 'ftm' spectrum people as there are 'mtf' spectrum people but people who start off with the girl parts are seen as 'rarer' because they don't get the attention of the media (it's got to do with patriarchy and shit and media bias and shock love). The reason crossdressing is so one-sided is cuz a girl can wear pants and overalls and flannel (even a tie!) and nobody really cares anymore. Plus there's the patriarchy thing again, it's not shocking cuz it just reinforces the 'men are superior' complex. Lot of people, they think its cute or sexy for a girl to wear men's clothing (especially if it's his clothes... 'she was wearing my shirt in the morning' you know?). But going the other way's different. Female to male's seen as moving upwards, and once you've moved up why would you want to go down again? Why 'debase' yourself? It's all patriarchy bullshit.

You'll have to excuse me, I'm a little incoherent today.

[onerous]

yeah, i somewhat crossdress. it amuses me.

i don't have female clothes, but the other day i put my legs into the armholes of this black t-shirt i have and tucked the top into underwear, it looked like a tight short black skirt, honestly it somewhat aroused me lol. (i've never worn a skirt before in my life so it felt pretty interesting seeing it :P)

and i always stare at my boobs in the mirror, making sure to avoid looking at my face. i poke em, squish em, punch em (VERY hard- as in beating my chest with all my might), dig lint out of the nipple holes with a toothpick, etc.
girls have no interest in being with me and im desperate enough to turn my unfortunately-shaped body into something for entertainment purposes. :) theres some disconnect with my brain and my body, like it's "mine" but not really mine hehe, so it doesn't exactly make me dysphoric doing it.

..TMI? OT? im a pervert heh. an occasional mtf cd in a ftm tg's body? labels are confusing aren't they?

[Sheila]

could it be that they do not see themselves as "Transguys" but as "Guys" and are therefore subject to the same emotions and interests as guys ............... so they don't see themselvesas as crossdressing "Transmales" but simply as "Crossdressers" if you wre not :confused: before reading my post, you very well maybe are now :doh::D

[Jonianne]

.......labels are confusing aren't they?

Bruce, my heart goes out to you. No matter what, love yourself and know that you are loved.

[Ze]

Awww Joni. :hugs: You're such a sweet person, did you know that? You're always saying such nice things to people.

[Jonianne]

Ze, good people have reached out to me and helped me when I was going through the toughest time of my life and there was no way I could pay them back, so the least I can do is try to "pay it foward" as much as I can by listening and trying to find words of encouragement to all God's children. We are our brothers' keeper.

[Elric]

Not to feed a necropost (although I believe I have already done that here -- apologies if it's frowned upon), but I'd like to bring a slightly different perspective to this idea. And a simple one.

It's a fetish. Plain and simple. Although definitely male hardwired, I made peace with my female body at a young age. Mind, I still remember being six years old and wondering why the hell the Universe hadn't given me a penis yet (I did agonize over that for a long time despite the peace I made).

But even as a child I found myself actually aroused when I wore very femme clothes. That predilection never left me, much as my knowledge that I was wired a man.

It may seem confusing but I have never felt confused. I am, however, well aware that I may present a lot of confusion and potential derision from all sides, but someone else's feelings towards me is not my concern.

In any event, I hope my comment has made a semblance of sense.

Cheers,

Elric

[Ze]

Nah, Elric, that's a great point. Especially since you seem to have gone through that yourself. :) You'd definitely know what you're talking about.

[DemonicDaughter]

Back when I started dressing as a Drag Queen, boy did I confuse the hell out of people! :heehee:

Its not often you meet a GG who dresses as a Drag Queen!

I think it confused people because if you are already a woman, how can you impersonate one? Well its simple, its fun. Its colorful wigs and sexy sequined gowns. Its the production of strapping yourself into the outfit, creating the illusion, putting on the makeup and being someone totally outrageous!

Its not about gender at all.

Even for male Drag Queens, gender has nothing to do with it. That is why they don't attempt to have "female" voices and are just as comfortable in either mode.

Being in drag isn't about "passing" as a woman. In truth, that's actually no where near what passes through our minds.

Its looking fierce, having fun, going over-board and in-your-face.

So... I'm a GG who dresses as a Drag Queen. I've also done the Victor/Victoria thing with presenting as a "male" impersonating a woman. :D

Why? Because its fun. Because it shocked them more to find out I wasn't really a man. Because life is meant to be lived... not sitting around contemplating how to live it. :battingeyelashes:

[Kieron Andrew]

I've also done the Victor/Victoria thing with presenting as a "male" impersonating a woman.

:eek::daydreaming: now THAT i'd love to see pics of :drooling:

[Ze]

:eek::daydreaming: now THAT i'd love to see pics of :drooling:

:yt:

[DemonicDaughter]

Trust me when I tell you... its plain and simply NOT a pretty sight (or would that be "handsome sight", lol). You can tell I'm utterly uncomfortable for much deeper reasons than I'm ready to discuss just yet.

I can do drag and have fun. I cannot do masculine and look even remotely happy.... even if its for drag. :sad:

[Ze]

Lots of huggles for DD!

:huggles :huggles :huggles :huggles

[Kieron Andrew]

Trust me when I tell you... its plain and simply NOT a pretty sight (or would that be "handsome sight", lol). You can tell I'm utterly uncomfortable for much deeper reasons than I'm ready to discuss just yet.

I can do drag and have fun. I cannot do masculine and look even remotely happy.... even if its for drag. :sad:
:hugs::love:

[Ze]

Very interesting thread. I've often wondered something along the same lines. [Edit snip.] I'm confused because of the few FtM's I've known they were very firm on never wanted anything to do with penetration of any sort. Perhaps this and the crossdressing might be realated? Just a though. . .

Personally, I don't think there's a big connection there. :) Some non-CD FtMs here don't mind that sort of thing, regardless of whether they're gay or hetero. And some hate it. It seems sexual preferences come down to personal opinion rather than identity.

[sherri52]

Victor Victoria A women disguised as a man disguised as a woman

[Elric]

Personally, I don't think there's a big connection there. :) Some non-CD FtMs here don't mind that sort of thing, regardless of whether they're gay or hetero. And some hate it. It seems sexual preferences come down to personal opinion rather than identity.

Agreed completely, Ze.

One's personal fetishes, kinks, sexual behaviours and preferred partners are mostly unrelated to gender identity.

i.e. A strict post-op Transman can be completely hetero and completely vanilla, OR he can be completely bi and into every kink known to mankind, OR somewhere in between liking to bottom to a very dominant Domme while topping a gentleman fop. There are as infinite variables regardless of gender identity and biological function.

At least those are my thoughts on the matter.

[Felix]

Ok here's my slant on it....

I know who I am and personally I do not like to crossdress to female in the true sense of the word. Now before I started on 'T' It wouldn't have bothered me to drag up and I have at Christmas for the kids in school for a laugh. Now I don't think I could do that coz even the thought of it makes me feel strange :brolleyes:

The only time I entertain and it is androgenously as I can is when I go to my mothers and I have to tone down my masculinity and yuck I have to wear my bra which completely stresses me out but I deal with it for that short time I'm at my mums for her sake really. I mean with the loss of my Dad earlier this year and her age and her ill health she really don't need the hastle of me being Trans. So because I know who I am I guess I deal with it. It does feel weired and I Know dam well it's not a pretty site me trying to be fem but hey ho if it keeps the peace :):) xx Felix :hugs:

[crazy4cheezeits]

I don't particularly enjoy dragging in girl's clothes, but I've done it, so I'll comment.

I've been a part of the GLBT/ queer community for quite some time now. I've gone to clubs/bars with drag kings and queens, and gone to drag shows at other places too. It's always something I've loved. I don't perform, but I often attend these types of things in drag.

I used to go as a guy. It was a great excitement, to bind my breasts and wear guy's clothes, and feel like perhaps for a change I was passing.

The more I wear guy's clothes and look like a guy, the more I feel that this isn't drag; it's my life. Going to a drag show as a guy feels like I'm calling it a costume, and it's not. It's how I'm most comfortable. I want to keep showing up to drag shows in drag, so sometimes I drag as a girl.

[C.J.]

Hey, I think I'm going to put my :2c: in on this topic, it's one of those that peaks my interest...

I crossdress a lot, mostly not by my own choice (I don't have much money to buy the right clothes, so I'm stuck wearing female clothes most of the time until my whole wardrobe is fixed).

BUT, there are the rare occasions where I choose to crossdress...There's two very particular styles of dresses that I like, and I do like "schoolgirl uniforms". I hate all other women's clothing, and when I would wear said dresses and schoolgirl uniform, I would do it only by my own choice. No one else can force me into those or any other girl clothes.

It's weird, for me, it's not a fetish or a lark...I don't know what it is, really. I'm not confused about my gender in the slightest, but sometimes, crossdressing is, dare I say it, maybe even nice...to be "the boy in a dress" (as long as it's my own choice) - but it HAS to be of my own choice and my gender has to be recognized correctly so I only do it by choice indoors. I'm still trying to figure out why I do it.

Then again, I suppose it's this way for all the "feminine" things I like...I have no problem with them when *I* choose to indulge in them (vs. being forced to cause I ran out of clean proper clothes), as long as my gender is recognized.

Why do I do any of it? :strugglin

- C.J.

[Leo Lane]

It's funny you should bring this up. I'm not into crossdressing, but I did do it once as a kid. I had been going to go to a school where I would have had to wear a skirt as part of the uniform; naturally I disliked the idea; in the end I went to another school -- though not because of the uniform problem! The skirt I'd have had to wear remained hanging in the closet, and one day -- I must have been about 12 or 13 -- I put it on, because Lyra in Philip Pullman's Northern Lights (American title The Golden Compass) wears skirts and I liked the character and wanted to see what it felt like. Alone in the apartment, I walked around in the skirt for a while, and I distinctly remember thinking, "But I feel like I'm cross-dressing. I feel like a boy might if he were wearing a skirt. What does that mean?" It was one of the big confirmations that I really was trans.

[PiratePrince]

My :2c:
I have been "crossdressing"(?) back and forth most of my life.. From the times of playing house with my friends, I was always (and happily) the husband or the Prince. Sometimes even adding rolled up socks to my costumes for "effect". It felt normal for me to be a man/boy one minute, and then a girl in a flowing skirt the next.
Two days ago I dressed as "manly" as I could (even added baby sideburns and bushier brows) and was so comfortable, and yesterday felt the urge to wear a skirt with a bikini top and was equally comfy.
In middle school I would do my best to dress like Joey Lawrence, baggy ripped jeans, white tank (with sports bras), flannel around the waist with an old leather jacket and trashed boots. I'd also wear short leather skirts with fishnets on odd days.

As of right now, I'm not planning on Transitioning as I kinda like this duality. And plus there are some changes I would not like if I went on T. I hate having hair anywhere on me besides my scalp. Tho I would love to be able to sculpt my muscles with more ease, but I have P!nk to look at for inspiration. Hmm, I'm feeling inspired already. :devil:

Things aren't going to change if we keep quiet. Sure it gets hard and redundant at times..constantly having to educate or re-educate people, but its all to make it easier for those coming out after us.
Some people like to wear pants, some like to wear skirts.. Don't see why people can't like both. Each to their own!

[Ze]

Hi, Pirate! :wave: I don't think I've seen you before, so nice to meetcha! :)

[PiratePrince]

Hi Ze! Lovely to make your acquaintance too! :bow:

[johnboy23]

I cant remember if it was in the MtF section or the young one section but there is a some what new post about a MtF crossdressing back to male attire. When I CD I like to wear my guy hoodies and sometimes my guy shirts, so I believe that it should be pretty common.

[Ze]

Hi, johnboy. :) I'm a bit confused by your post; are you referring to MtF CDing or FtM CDing (this thread)?

[WalT]

I might find it a little odd but I can see why some FtMs crossdress to F. It seems like most do it out of the fun factor. I personally wouldn't like doing it; I'm not particularly fond of women's clothing and going back to being all femmed up, makeup and all, is pretty much a hell for me.

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

I'm a drag queen..
It confuses the hell out of most people.. but it's only confusing if people let it be. It really isn't that difficult to understand, I don't think..
I'm a mostly gay male.. I don't identify as female at all.. I just like to dress up and perform. Lots of gay guys do this.. it's kind of part of the culture.. and I'm all about the culture..
I enjoy performing, and I like makeup.. I just don't wear it much when presenting as male, because I like to pass when I can.. lol
But I just see drag as playing a character.. it has nothing to do with my gender identity.. it's just a fun hobby.

I never used to get turned on by being in women's clothing.. but now I think I kind of do.
I'm a little embarrassed to admit it.. but when I'm in drag, and wearing pretty little underthings and all that.. and I look in the mirror, I actually get aroused.. perhaps because I don't see that as me.. I just see this hot girl with huge breasts in the mirror.. and I'm like whoaaa she's hot..
But then.. I realize it's me.. and I give my head a shake. lol
I think it's a combination of the appearance and feel of the clothing.

I know all this might sound strange, but this is just the way I am, and we all know gender isn't binary. No one fits a stereotype perfectly. There are many facets of me, and I'm fine with that.. I just know alot of people judge.

[gemsay32]

Agreed completely, Ze.

One's personal fetishes, kinks, sexual behaviours and preferred partners are mostly unrelated to gender identity.

i.e. A strict post-op Transman can be completely hetero and completely vanilla, OR he can be completely bi and into every kink known to mankind, OR somewhere in between liking to bottom to a very dominant Domme while topping a gentleman fop. There are as infinite variables regardless of gender identity and biological function.

At least those are my thoughts on the matter.

Wait!? Are you admitting that we live in the matrix and that all the world is a giant computer meant to be programmed?

[mylilsecret8]

I'm a drag queen..
It confuses the hell out of most people.. but it's only confusing if people let it be. It really isn't that difficult to understand, I don't think..
I'm a mostly gay male.. I don't identify as female at all.. I just like to dress up and perform. Lots of gay guys do this.. it's kind of part of the culture.. and I'm all about the culture..

By the way, I'm a MTF and first of all just want to say you Transmen are sooooo awesome, you big handsome studs you!! ;)

I definately understand what you are saying. You identify as a gay male. Lot's of gay males like to dress femme, and you are like a lot of gay males.

There is something very sexy and interesting to me about others who transition, and I guess I like the little mix of gender. Whether it is a Transman who is dressed masculine or a MTF who is dressed pretty.

Most of the time when I am dressed femme I'll be femme from head to toe, but sometimes just for a kick I'll wear mens boxers under my dress instead of lacy pink panties. Don't get me wrong...I am the ultimate panty boy and have a fetish for pretty panties, but just something intriguing about mixing gender clothing I guess.

[DanteDonovan]

I would be a prime person to ask about stuff since I am FTM, yet wear eyeliner, shadow, put on wigs, and go out.

I don't wear girl clothes, but I do got style. Plus am gay. Some of my friends online had a moment of confusion on me coming out as this. I knew they saw it as a girl who believes she's a guy. Ok, we got that. But...then she says she's transgender, is male, but wears makeup and wigs, and drools over guys. WTF...why not just stay a girl? Oo

I completely understand their thoughts, but I honestly feel no connection to my female body. I loathe it. Ever since I was young, I always wore the pants. Wore the boots. Hung with more guys than girls. Was always "one of the guys".

I think, for me, a big part has to do with my love of art and anything I can color and design, I'm all over it. I love fashion and makeup. Have always been attracted to the more effeminate men, as well as the ones that might have the eyeliner. Color, variety, and outgoing natures like that grab me.

I also think it really is just part of my body and mind. I am very androgynous. My body is perfect that if I dress down and don't wear any makeup and don't do anything to my hair, I get some people thinking I'm a guy. I dress up, makeup and wigs, and I look 100% female.

For how my physical body is, my mentality (even took quite a few of valid gender tests) I always am balancing damn near in the middle. Just, in the end, I am more male than female.

So, yeah, that's why I do what I do. No traumatic childhood or past. No mixed emotions and misunderstandings of who I am. I have no idea if this contributed in a helpful way to this. I just wanted to try and give you one of the views of someone who does this ^^

[Myojine]

That it’s relatively common for transmen to transition from [hate this] “female” to male and then once they are happy they pass as men…to crossdress to female…

What the F***?
http://flyff-forum.gpotato.com/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif:doh:

I knew they saw it as a girl who believes she's a guy. Ok, we got that. But...then she says she's transgender, is male, but wears makeup and wigs, and drools over guys. WTF...why not just stay a girl? Oo

I completely understand their thoughts, but I honestly feel no connection to my female body. I loathe it. Ever since I was young, I always wore the pants. Wore the boots. Hung with more guys than girls. Was always "one of the guys".


This me except the opposite gender.
People fail to understand that im MtF, wanna wear skirts and and a bikini(actually like onepieces realy alot better),
yet still goes gaga over girls in their panties(dont hate on the panties yo ;)or a girl in a great bikini, or why i have so much anime "ecchi" pr0n(ecchis sorta like softcore, but its anime girls in panties and bras, not actually naked but partially clothed suggestive and/or sexual poses).
they ask
WHY NOT JUST STAY A FREAKIN DUDE?!

[zetsuboubilly]

If I passed as a guy even in drag, I would be thrilled out of my mind. I'm not the most macho guy ever - I like tight clothes and eyeliner - and I'd crossdress just for fun if I didn't pass as a girl so well. :D

[Vickie_CDTV]

As a M2F TV, I have to admit I find this rather fascinating. Dominic, those feelings you describe sound very similar to what some genetic male M2F crossdressers feel when they are dressed in womens' clothes. It makes me wonder, if you don't mind me asking, did those feelings you feel when dressed in womens' clothes start after you started taking testosterone?

[Abraxas]

If I passed as a guy even in drag, I would be thrilled out of my mind. I'm not the most macho guy ever - I like tight clothes and eyeliner - and I'd crossdress just for fun if I didn't pass as a girl so well. :D

Hey there, new person!
:)

I'm in agreement with ya there-- I'm definitely into the Bowie look, and if I thought I passed well enough as male in drag, I'd totally crossdress. Last time I tried that I looked like a girl. But it's been five years. Maybe it'll work now.

By the way, why don't you wander over to the new members section and post an intro :)

[barbecue7]

I think its kinda hot for an ftm guy to dress in drag, I know of several who do that on occassion and go out to the bars, etc..

[Nicole Erin]

I guess some people truely do not like any kind of gender boundry.

I don't know much detail on this one but I have heard of TS who transition back and forth a few times. Don't know how, I mean once the male organs are gone, they are GONE. And for the GG's who have chest surgery, I don't think there would be any hope of them growing back even if said GG underwent HRT. I mean if you could just re-grow breasts, a lot of breast cancer survivors would be REAL happy.

[AnonyMouse]

It's very simple for me.

Dressing up as a girl for a day or just a few hours, when I want to, and going out with people who understand that that's not "me" is fun.

On the other hand, looking like a girl day in and day out, being referred to by female pronouns day in and day out, expected to do things that girls are expected to do socially, and all that, is traumatic.

I guess I feel the same way about it as I do about physical contact. If I say it's okay first and you don't expect me to keep doing it whenever you get the urge, it's great. Otherwise, NO. Keep your rape-hugs to yourself.