Be Upfront Honest With Your New Girlfriend? Really?

[Rhonda Jean]

I've been divorced for several months now and am currently, sort of, not dating. So, I'm sitting here with all the information in the world at my disposal and life experience that includes the loss of a 30 year marriage due to my cding. The prevailing wisdom is that one should be completely honest very early on in the relationship. It's time that I make a decision on how to proceed.

I think honesty is as honorable as the next person, but, really? You've got to be kidding? Starting with the likely scenario that she's just not in to all that, I can't imagine that it's even a remote possibility that after such a disclosure that she's not going to tell at least everyone in her close circle of friends, then they tell theirs, and so on. Even if she IS in to it this may be the case. I think if you tell, you're out. Simple as that.

I think the choice for me is to continue to live alone and crossdress to my hearts content or get in to a serious relationship and give it up forever (unless it came out later that she really was into it, and then I'd be pretty hesitant).

I know all the "can't give it up" arguments. I'm familiar with, "It's not something I've chosen, it's just the way I am and I have no control over it." I've used them myself. Truth is, I didn't want to give it up. I didn't have sufficient motivation to give it up. Still don't. But if I fall in love and have the opportunity to live out my life in a loving, stable relationship... That's sufficient motivation! No doubt I'd miss it. To be perfectly honest there'd probably be times I'd act on it to some extent. But if I'm fortunate enough to ever again be in a truly meaningful relationship, it'll be worth the sacrifice, and what little there is left that I allow myself to act on will just have to be my little secret!

I'm not blowing another loving relationship over this! As important as all this is to me, and at times it's REALLY important, if the choice is a loving, fulfilling relationship or the freedom to pass myself off as a woman, I'll take the relationship. I can already hear it, "You'll never be truly fulfilled." I realize that. I also realize that I'm not truly fulfilled NOW! I'm pretty sure it'd be easier to live without this than to spend the rest of my life alone.

At this point, the opportunity hasn't presented itself to make that decision. Right now, I'm pursuing the whole cding thing with what for me is wild abandon! I'm enjoying it immensely, but, you can bet your a$$ I'd trade it.

Your comments, please! GG's especially welcome!

[justtwosexy]

Over the years I have met many ladies and in the majority they had no problem with my cding. I was upfront with them from the get go and most were rather intrigued with it all and helped me move forward with what made both of us comfortable.

[Rachel Morley]

I understand .... but I have mixed thoughts about it all. I think how you are thinking is how I would be too in the same situation. I know that before I met my wife I was all ready to go to a councilor to "rid me of my CDing" as it was becoming (I thought) an obstacle in my life. I was not ready to share this information with any prospective "serious girlfriend". However, I was ready to concentrate on the relationship and keep CDing out of the equation if I possibly could. In other words I thought my desire to be loved and love in return would definitely be enough to control it.

Now I'm not so sure. The genie is out of her bottle in a rather serious way. I'm not single (my wife is very accepting) but knowing what I know now, and feeling like I do, if I was single I don't think I could totally give up even for a really good relationship, although I think I would try. I'm sure I'd fail and have to risk it all and tell her. Me being me, I couldn't not tell her, if I really cared about her.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

How supportive and healthy and meaningful a relationship can one have if one is forced to hide part of ones self away to be in it?

It sounds like you are still holding on to a lot of guilt in regards to the feeling that crossdressing ended your marriage. If you present your crossdressing to your new girlfriend after a couple of months of dressing, and you approach it with such guilt and concern, it's going to come across as a problem. But if you present it just as, this is something I do, and it's not that big of a deal, it's fun, and I like it, then it doesn't come across nearly as bad.

[Renee Demarea]

Hello Rhonda, Im in the same type situation only its been 5 months and I have found that living with your GF is worth putting things on hold. There are to many life issues to sort out first.I guess that waiting for the right time when you are sure that you can make the realationship work long term,if it not going to be why start that fire. I cant feel that is something she cant wait to hear. Not that many women want GF/BF realationship, but would if they feel that you are the only one for them.:)

[Rhonda Jean]

Rachel. You're proof that those perfect situations do exist, but there's no denying that they're so exceptionally rare as to not even be a serious consideration. A goal, of course, but not really part of the equation.

Alyssa and Justtwosexy. I get all that, but, back to my point about being out... How do you get around that? BTW, I've pretty much worked through the guilt. Still some regrets, but not guilt.

[docrobbysherry]

I was VERY disappointed to read that CDing caused your marriage to break up. I've read SO MANY other posts from married CDs here. Discussing the problems that their dressing caused in their relationships. However, I don't recall even ONE OTHER writer that didn't say, " Well, there were OTHER problems, too".:sad:

As a formerly married, presently single, CD, I can say that our freedom to CD, can be a "slippery slope"!:eek:

I'm not only concerned that I couldn't give it up. Even for the "perfect" woman. But, that it has become such a large, enjoyable part of my life, I don't WANT TO!:doh:

Then, it COULD become a contest for Robert. Between a REAL GG, and the imaginary Sherry! A contest Sherry's been winning lately!:brolleyes:

I agree with u, Rhonda Jean, about telling your dates u CD. I'm pretty sure the over 50 ladies I date, would be out the door before I finished the sentence!:thumbsdn:

Damned if u do, damned if u DON'T!:devil:

[Rhonda Jean]

Katie. It may be at that moment, or shortly following, that you find out just how much you can trust her. I'm not sure I'd know before that. If I knew for sure, then it wouldn't be such a risk. Lots of chips on the table then.

[mklinden2010]

RJ,

I have found it helpful to be myself at all times. I Xd - in my own way and for my own reasons. I see the world through my own set of glasses and try never to forget: "That's the world out there and this is the world in here."

My first marriage broke up because we were young and stupid. XDing had nothing to do with it. In fact, it was helpful in dividing up our property - I got a ton of dresses, etc. from her and she was glad to help out.

My second marriage ended when she died of cancer. Her main concern about the Xding was that we'd both be "outed" some day, and she just didn't want to deal with it at work. Otherwise, she was glad for me to be happy.

It was my second wife, by the way, who insisted that I not ignore that Xding was "a" door to bisexual/homosexual behavior and/or TG/TS options. She was a practical and loving person who helped and cautioned about many things that could come up along the way. What I did, or, would do, was always up to me, but she wanted us to talk about it so I would not be stupid in any choices I made/might make. That's love.

In between my second wife and my current long-time SO, I dated for about two years. I played those relationships by ear and quickly exited those that would be problematic. Of those women I discussed this with, they were all supportive - some wildly so. (Goodness, ladies!)

My current SO and I have been living together for three plus years. Her take on the Xding is that this is something that comes with me as part of a relationship she values very much. We help each other live a better life... I interview roofers and tax accountants for her, she double-checks my fashion choices. We have the same taste in shoes and skirts and have to discuss who gets which new pattern. Usually she gets "dibs," since she needs to dress better for work than I do for socializing and play.

All this to say that honesty with yourself and others is the same thing when it comes to the people you live your best life with. If you Xd and you like it, then good for you - and them. Everyone should have something that makes 'em happy and every couple should have a good working relationship that makes them glad they found each other.

Be your happiest self. Love will find you. Be kind to love when it shows up - love will need you to love it back.

[Cheshire Gummi]

I understand the direction you chose and the reasons you chose it, but let's be clear about something; you are not being honest. Choosing the lesser of two evils and all that, yes, but ultimately you're concealing something.

Additionally, you seem to have a desire to choose to love someone else more than you love yourself. Selfless romance was cute back in the time of Romeo and Juliet, but these days it's kind of insane to choose that over being personally satisfied with life.

If you want to be in a fulfilled and loving relationship, then start with you. If you only care about the other half of any relationship then what kind of relationship is it? Sounds like cuckoldry dressed up like love to me.

Look at it this way; if you have to hide some part of yourself to get someone to love you, then they don't really love you, do they? They love the idea of you. The idea that you present to them under false pretenses. That's not really love for another person, either; lying to them.

Someone broke your heart, I know. I've had mine broken too. We all have. I can't pretend to know what it's like to spend 30 years with someone only to have them reject a fundamental aspect of your personality, but that's their fault, not yours! You don't have to be someone else just because someone couldn't find it in their heart to accept you.

If you want real advice, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here, but you seem to have made up your mind. I just hope this gives you a little more perspective and that, maybe, something will sink in.

[Rhonda Jean]

To see other perspectives is the reason I posed the question. If I was entirely entrenched there would have been no point.

The posts about loving, honest, completely open and accepting relationships... I get all that, too. It's wonderful beyond description. I know. I had one for 30 years! But when things went bad, they really went bad. It seemed to me to happen in an instant, and there was no possibility of recovery. Still unbelievable, even now.

Three years ago I was one of the ones singing the virtues of openness and acceptance. Obviously, not anymore.

[Ralph]

I'm gonna go against the grain and support your decision in this one, RJ. If you were saying that your two choices were to continue dressing and hiding it or abandon all hope of a relationship, I'd be all over you like panties on anyone here (rimshot). But you mention a third option, which is to purge and stay purged. And as I have stated (again, contrary to the prevailing opinion), I believe it is possible if it's that important to you. In fact, you get extra points for MAKING a healthy relationship more important to you than crossdressing.

My only caution about flying that path hinges on a series of hypotheticals years down the road. IF you go all the way and get married, all the while staying on the wagon, and then some time much later discover you can't hold it back any longer... that's the time to come clean. Don't ever try to hide it, or your next marriage will surely fail. Explain to her what's going on and that your only reason for not telling her before you got married was that you thought for sure you could keep it under control. Hopefully that situation will never come up, but if it does, I still maintain that honest admission of your darkest secrets is healthier than getting caught in a lie.

Hope it works out... be sure to post the wedding photos :-)

[Holly]

...my approach is the other way round: "Dear Abby, I've met this girl that I'm scared to be honest with. Is it a good idea to have her as a girlfriend...?" If you can't trust her what the heck are you doing going steady with her? I don't get it.Katie, great perspective. If your are contemplating a relationship with someone who is unwilling or unable to accept you as a whole person, then maybe you are contemplating the wrong relationship.


...if you have to hide some part of yourself to get someone to love you, then they don't really love you, do they? They love the idea of you. The idea that you present to them under false pretenses. That's not really love for another person, either; lying to them...

If you want real advice, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here...Spot on CG. Taking it one step further, over time, you will tire of being someone who you are not. That, in and of itself will out untold strain on the relationship.

My advice? Don't prejudge future relationships on the basis of your past. Especially if you are confident that you did everything right and everything within your power to make them successful. Let me give you and example... I love fried chicken. My parents came over to visit me and my wife (their real objective was to visit their grandson :D) and they bought some fried chicken they had picked up along the way. I picked out a piece and bit into it... it was the most disgusting rotten, rancid thing I have ever put in my mouth. Now I'll be the first to admit that it pretty much killed my appetite for the day. But I still eat chicken. I don't prejudge every piece of chicken to be rotten or disgusting.

The essence of you is an honest person. You said as much yourself. If you can't be true to yourself and your own values, what do you have left? Someone who may love something that you are not at your core? That sounds lonely to me. :sad:

[Kara Connor]

Clearly this is not something I think one should bring up on a first date.
"Love the heels girl, I have some like that that go really well with my strappy dress". This is likely to put a damper on the evening. Even if you aren't CD you need to get to know someone before figuring out if the relationship can go anywhere. Does the other person have similar views to you, or at least ones that you are going to be able to agree to disagree about? Do they seem trustworthy - you may well be about to exchange viral history with them, after all :) It is after this period, but, I would argue, before getting married, that you should mention that you like to crossdress, then honestly answer their questions. Otherwise the relationship starts out based on a partial lie about who you realy are. If someone is not going to end up being acceptiong, you will be sitting on a time-bomb anyway. Just my 2c.

[Rhonda Jean]

Katie, great perspective. If your are contemplating a relationship with someone who is unwilling or unable to accept you as a whole person, then maybe you are contemplating the wrong relationship.

Spot on CG. Taking it one step further, over time, you will tire of being someone who you are not. That, in and of itself will out untold strain on the relationship.

My advice? Don't prejudge future relationships on the basis of your past. Especially if you are confident that you did everything right and everything within your power to make them successful. Let me give you and example... I love fried chicken. My parents came over to visit me and my wife (their real objective was to visit their grandson :D) and they bought some fried chicken they had picked up along the way. I picked out a piece and bit into it... it was the most disgusting rotten, rancid thing I have ever put in my mouth. Now I'll be the first to admit that it pretty much killed my appetite for the day. But I still eat chicken. I don't prejudge every piece of chicken to be rotten or disgusting.

The essence of you is an honest person. You said as much yourself. If you can't be true to yourself and your own values, what do you have left? Someone who may love something that you are not at your core? That sounds lonely to me. :sad:

I agree so completely with the statement of not prejudging future relationships an the basis of the past. That's a recent revelation to me, and a mighty important one on a lot of levels.

It also comes as sort of a revelation to me, however obvious it should have been, that I haven't been in a relationship where I hid it! I probably hid the extent of it at times, but it was always out there. Even from the very beginning. Hmmmm... gonna have to think on that for a while!

[Jean Ann S]

I am single
the CD thing is a "deal breaker" for me
If someone can not accept that side of me we probably have little in common
and much better to know it up front than later
not saying they might not other wise be a nice person... but simply not a match
I struggled through a couple of years of a bad relationship before this dawned on me
sometimes one just has to face realities of life
and I only need find that one accepting person
if not will just stay single
I had rather be somewhat lonely by myself thatn mizerable with someone

Jean Ann
:eek:

[Miranda09]

I agree with you Rhonda. I absolutely love dressing, and it's been a very relaxing and fulfilling activity. Having said that, I really miss a long term relationship with a woman. I've been alone now for more years than I care to count, and it's a lonely existence. If I'm lucky enough to meet a girl who will also enjoy my CDing, so much the better. If not, I'll deal with that when the time comes. :)

[jessica millen]

hi rhonda jean, i'm in a similar situation as yourself, although not quite so far along. my wife left me 8 months ago, so although the divorce isnt through yet, its on its way.
anyway, we were together 20 years, and she was well aware about my crossdressing years before we got married. i cant blame our break up on the crossdressing, but i'm damn sure it was a part of it. she went from accepting and joining in on the very rare occassion, to burying it under the carpet like it never happened. drunken statements along the lines of 'youre gay' etc made my guilt worse regarding the situation, but no matter how many times i tried to get her to look into it a bit further, online or wherever, she didnt want to know.
to give myself a bit of back up during the ensuing divorce, i've told some friends and my sisters about my crossdressing, incase the ex decides to out me out of spite (my closest friends have known for years, as well as a few other friends who were told by the ex) - whether she will or not, i dont know, but i hope our 20years together still means something....anyway, i've been very suprised by everyones attitude - not one person has been mortified or disgusted. my eldest sister was shocked, then laughed. one of my close beer drinking/football loving/womanising friends was the biggest worry. he laughed and asked if i wore high heels!
this brings me to your future quandry - i will soon be hoping to pop back into the dating scene (i wonder if theres a dvd or something about it these days) and i would have the same worries about telling them my secret. do i, dont i? hmmm, well, as some posters have said, i reckon my view on it is currently as such - if and when i find someone who seems to be my kinda gal, i'd like to spend some time getting to know them, over the space of a few weeks or months, but i will definitely tell them before it gets any more serious than that. i now feel i owe it to myself and to the other person to let them know. if theyre freaked or not interested, so be it, at least i'll have been honest. i cant live through another long term relationship where i'm made to feel like a deviant or not manly enough for that person.
just my 2p's worth :)
jessica

[JulieC]

Truth is, I didn't want to give it up. I didn't have sufficient motivation to give it up. Still don't. But if I fall in love and have the opportunity to live out my life in a loving, stable relationship... That's sufficient motivation! No doubt I'd miss it. To be perfectly honest there'd probably be times I'd act on it to some extent. But if I'm fortunate enough to ever again be in a truly meaningful relationship, it'll be worth the sacrifice, and what little there is left that I allow myself to act on will just have to be my little secret!

No, it isn't sufficient motivation. I see so many CDers who believe if they find the right woman, they'll be able to stop CDing. "It'll work this time. I'll be motivated. The urges will be less."

It doesn't work that way. It's not like alcoholism, where you can remove yourself from the alcohol and dramatically reduce the temptation's proximity. You find a woman, you fall in love, you move in together...and WHAM..there are her clothes right in front of you. Pretty clothes. Sexy shoes. Beautiful underthings. You touch, you feel, you get excited seeing them....and you think you can resist this?

You'd have more success not drinking water for three days then sit in front of a nice glass of ice water and resist drinking it for another day...on principles.

You're in an emotional/mental situation right now where a spouse of 30 years is gone because of CDing. CDing appears to be the enemy, the thing that's wrong. It isn't. It will take time to realize that, but it isn't the enemy.

There are plenty of women who do accept CDing at least enough to happily stay in a relationship. This very forum is populated with a number of women who actively support their spouses in CDing.

There is ZERO chance you will find such a woman unless you actively take matters into your own control and find out if they accept before things get truly serious. No, you don't have to spill the beans on the first, second, or even tenth or twentieth date. But at some point, before you spend inordinate amounts of time on a new love, spill the beans. She either accepts or doesn't.

If instead you try to hide it, she will find out...and the deceit alone can kill the relationship. Plus, let's say you have a small stash you secretly dig into when she's not around. You die. She's cleaning out closets and finds the stash...and spends the rest of her life wondering the meaning behind it.

No, the best option is to tell.

I've told numerous women over the years whom I've dated or had an interest in. Only one was actively repulsed by it. Most were neutral/semi-positive. I think you will find the same. But, you can't find that out without asking/telling.

Don't ask, and don't tell, and you doom yourself and your relationship to sadness.

[stevie34]

I went out on a night out with two girls shortly after my last breakup. The issue was in my mind at the time and I wanted to find out what other girl's opinions were, so after the third bottle of wine I opened up and broached the subject. Amazingly it went down OK and opened up some interest and discussion. Later on one of them invited me to sleep with her.

It's still one of my biggest regrets not accepting the offer. I felt it wouldn't be gentlemanly. I think she needed hugging and someone to be nice to her, and that was where I was at the time too. But that's a different matter.

Personally I'm probably still not quite ready for another relationship, but when I am ready I do plan to be up front rather than hide it.

A flatmate does internet dating and meets a lot of girls. Worth a shot on one or two to gauge the reaction rather than hiding things and feeling guilty and frustrated for the sake of not doing so. That's my plan anyway. I wouldn't like to hide anything from a new partner, especially as it tends to lead to trouble. Moderation can be agreed.

[deja true]

On a slightly lighter note, but still apropo, I think...

The perfect time for testing the acceptance thing with new woman acquaintances is just around the corner... Hallowe'en.

Got someone your somewhat interested in ... and she knows you well enough to like your company? Here's the time for a serious foray into that big question. Presenting yourself in all your ladylike glory for a party on this single day presents the opportunity to get that crucial opinion.

Is she freaked out and kind of embarrassed for you? Well, what the heck, it's a one time thing done on a dare. Is she pleasantly intrigued and and asks a few questions about it? Well, ... uh, yeah, you are pretty good at it, aren't you? And here's why!

That's when the closer conversation can begin.

Several have essentially said, 'Don't tar them all with the same brush'. I have to agree entirely, given the surprisingly wonderful acceptance I got from my long-time gf just a few short months ago. I thought the ax would fall ... but... We're going to SCC together. She wants to know more!

Hang in there, Rhonda! You can't really be the man you wanna be, should be, if you deny an essentially positive part of your nature. That hole will have to fill with something and it's more than likely gonna be negative. Don't really want that to happen, do you?

:)

[Misty is Kindafem]

Coming out to myself was the most difficult part for me. It was terrifying to admit out loud what I was.

I'm single now and I will be forever as far as I know.

I'm not out at work or even in my neighborhood but I'll be damned if I'll ever hide again in my own house.

... but of course I rather enjoy not being in a relationship, so it's not exactly a sacrifice.


-Misty

[Maxi]

I have a tendency to leave my slips laying around the bedroon. When I was dating, the women would ask, Who's is that? I would tell them it's mine. Then the questions would start, I would answer them honestly. There was never any problems because of my love for female attire. When I met the women who became my wife now, she has been fully excepting, even helpful.

Most women when you first meet are more excepting and courious of CDing than a woman that has known you for years as just a guy. Lay the foundation first then build your life together. Be honest with her.

[Faith_G]

Truth is, I didn't want to give it up. I didn't have sufficient motivation to give it up. Still don't. But if I fall in love and have the opportunity to live out my life in a loving, stable relationship... That's sufficient motivation! No doubt I'd miss it. To be perfectly honest there'd probably be times I'd act on it to some extent. But if I'm fortunate enough to ever again be in a truly meaningful relationship, it'll be worth the sacrifice, and what little there is left that I allow myself to act on will just have to be my little secret!You're fooling yourself and it is likely to end very badly.

[Hope]

Personally, I wouldn't even contemplate being serious friends with someone who I thought I couldn't trust, or be honest with. What would be the point?

I also wouldn't even contemplate being serious friends with someone who thought I was some sort of pervert, deviant, creep. Again, what would be the point? There are lots of people who think I'm a royal jerk (ask around) but I don't mistake them for friends.

So if I wouldn't consider them friends... Why on earth would I consider a person like that "relationship" material?

[Sally2005]

I feel for you and the loss of your first marriage. The thing I wanted to mention is not to repeat the same mistake you made the first time. Did you tell your first wife before you got serious? Or really late in the relationship? I can understand not telling when we were younger because not a lot was known about CDing...and what exactly were you supposed to say back then? ...but nowdays it is probably a good idea to find out what the girl thinks about it (you don't have to out yourself to her), just introduce her to all your CDing friends, go to some drag shows, dress up on halloween...etc. etc... involve her in that part of your life...and if she can't hack it, move on to the next girl. Don't be official about anything because unless you are going to transition in the future, it is just an activity...so why make it out to be any more? I guess you could tell her you need to do it periodically or you get cranky. If I did it over again, that's what I would do...I wouldn't hide it, feel shame for doing it, but I wouldn't broadcast or make an official announcement either. I think I like the concept of having an 'unusual hobby' that maybe my friends probably don't want to know too much about.

[KayC]

Rhonda Jean,
I met my BF and shortly after he sent me pictures of him dressed as a woman "for Halloween". He made light of it, made it sound like it was his daughter's doing, etc. I thought it was strange, esp. when I found out he paid $1700 for the outfit. I thought, no one pays that much to dress up for Halloween! Then there were other little things I noticed, he liked chick flicks, he didn't mind talking on the phone, he was patient and understanding, he seemed to have some gay mannerisms...no question about it, he was "different" than any of the guys I'd met and dated. But I liked him. And that "like" quickly turned to love. And I found out he "dressed" not once but three Halloweens. And he still had all of the clothes, wig, boots, etc. Then I found out "she" had a name of her own. And a myspace page of her own. Okay, things were starting to add up, so I questioned him. It wasn't so much that he came right out and told me up front, which you're right, it might have scared me (or anyone) off, but rather he put out feelers, testing my responses, and little by little I began to get the idea. When I first realized he was a CD, I was in shock, sick to my stomach kind, I mean it really shook me. I'd never known a CD, never given it any thought. But I loved him. There was that. Although I felt he'd been less than honest, I understood why, and whose to say how I'd be in his shoes? At any rate, I decided to try to learn about it...that's when I came across this site. I knew he hadn't committed a crime, that my feelings were as a result of fear which is ignorance-based...so the key to me was to educate myself. I feel like in the short time since (a couple of weeks?) I have gone 180 degrees! I love this person and want to learn all I can about him/her. I have yet to see "her" dressed, but I think I will someday, when he/she feels ready. He's still testing me. Little comments, like "if we broke up and you told everyone..." to which I replied "look at my track record! How have I treated my exes?! I have always been more than fair to them. I wouldn't do that, I am forthright and caring, not vindictive." I know it must be tremendously hard to trust someone to that extent, but to have a good relationship, you have to trust. As it is right now, I love him (her?) more than ever! That he can be willing to share this much with me, I can't even tell you how good that makes me feel! But I do want to meet "her", when he's ready. At first I would have been scared to, but now, well, I just want to know her/him, all of them, both.
I don't think it has to be an either/or situation for you. I'm so sorry you lost a 30 year relationship over this, that's really too bad, esp. since it needn't have been. People are just too valuable to throw away over something so harmless. Yes it may be confusing. Yes it may require I redefine myself, my sexuality, my ideas/thinking, you name it, but isn't he worth it and isn't the challenge of that the very thing that makes a good relationship good...that they cause us to grow and learn? How horrible it would be if that were not the case!
Get to know the person...is the person someone you can trust, confide in? Are they caring, loyal, understanding? Drop your hints little by little, feel your way around...but especially pay attention to the person's character. A good person would not badmouth you to anyone, even if they couldn't wrap their head around the CD issue. With a good person, what have you got to lose?...and you have everything to gain! I wish you the best of luck! But do NOT change who you are for someone, you need most of all to be true to yourself and who you are and need to be. That is what I encourage my BF to be. The right person would not want you to give up any of who you are. The "how often" and "the circumstances", etc. can all be worked out between the two of you in due time...and may very well evolve. As so many GGs attest, that new person you meet might very well enjoy you as a CD, certainly will appreciate the good qualities you have to offer her.

[Fab Karen]

Divorced- so were you honest with your wife or did you try to keep it from her? Answer that before you make the same mistake in a new relationship.

[kasha]

When I told my girl it was just a few months into our relationship. We were serious by then and ultimately I thought if I couldn't trust her then we shouldn't be together. The difficult part was answering her questions. I was still a novice, and didn't have a lot of answers. We both did some reading and talked a lot. She's absolutely my number one supporter now.

When I go ask her what I did right. Instantly she said, "You were honest with me early on." And if I had waited? She said, "I would still love you, but I wouldn't be able to trust you since you hid something so close to your heart from me."

I feel the reason we are still together and still going strong is because I was honest with myself and her. I included her in the process of me figuring out who I am, which made it about us instead of just about me. And I always remain open to her concerns, idea, suggestions and questions.

I don't feel it's impossible to find someone, as she wasn't the first girlfriend I've told. Four women I've had serious relationships with knew, and I handled it pretty much the same way. Each had their own level of comfort with it, none were totally against it. But they knew that it was a part of me, and being with me meant Kasha was in the picture as well. And none of my relationships broke up over dressing.

As for the rest of my girlfriends/dates, if I thought they wouldn't like my dressing, or tell their friends, or break my trust, then I would stop seeing them.

[Thalia]

Rhonda Jean: I'm with you 100 percent. I told my wife after over 15 years of marriage and it did not go well. If they're not informed in the beginning as the relationship gets serious, then, how in the world can we expect acceptance? We don't have support groups because we're "normal". We kid ourselve and tell each other how attractive we are but in reality, in public, we wouldn't notice (much less comment favorably) about a woman (gg) who looked much as some of us do on this website.

My wife and I are tryng to work on our marriage and I have promised NO MORE CROSSDRESSING. Honestly, it hasn't been all that difficult to give it up. Granted, it's only been 9 months but I'd rather be with my wife than "dress like a woman". Funny how it doesn't seem as important when weighed against the price. True, a partner should be informed early on; however, if they're not, then think long and hard about the consequences before devulging your secret.

We lose more than just our marriage if our partner is non-accepting. We very possibly lose friendships, in many cases the respect of friends and children. Siblings are put-off and there could be consequences on the job. Just to wear womens' clothing.......a huge price to pay!!! I don't believe all those who have paid the price of honesty post on the websites. I know that many here love dressing and some are fortunate to have accepting partners. However, I don't think those who suffer because of their desire to dress visit these sites and many of those who do tell of their unhappiness.

[TSchapes]

If that's truly how you feel, you know yourself the best.

For me however, I told myself that I would never marry a woman without them knowing about my CDing. It's just not fair to them.

Also, since I am doing nothing wrong, society will have to adjust to me, not the other way around.

-Tracy

[DemonicDaughter]

So you find this future girlfriend of yours and all seems to being going so well. You find yourself getting serious, fall in love, move in, get married and keep your cding to yourself as your "little secret".

Whatever length of time down the road you walk in on your girlfriend practicing some ancient ritual! And upon discussion you find out the woman you are in love with believes in some obscure religious belief that you've never heard of.

Now you might not be a very religious person. You might blow it off that she's a part of some strange belief system. But do you honestly believe that you would be "perfectly fine" knowing she has an entire online community she communicates with that you don't know about? That she hides things for her rituals so you don't find them? That she participates in something that she finds so important to her, so a part of who she is without you? Won't you feel even a LITTLE left out? A little upset that she didn't even bother to share it with you to begin with? Won't you feel just SLIGHTLY annoyed that she didn't trust you with the information?

And if you do think such things are trivial, wouldn't you feel even more upset that she would keep something so minor from you?

Or perhaps you are deeply religious/spiritual and you feel this goes against everything you believe in! Maybe you feel that it is something so evil and vile because it doesn't adhere to what you personally believe in or personally follow!

How are you going to feel knowing you moved in with someone who practiced this stuff behind your back? Brought it into your house!

See my point?

When you hide something that is so important to who you are, even if you CAN give it up, aren't you really saying you don't feel the person you are choosing to be with isn't worthy of such knowledge? Aren't you assuming instantly that the person cannot or will not handle it well enough?

I thought relationships were about compromise. How can one be reached when someone doesn't know one is even needed?

[Rhonda Jean]

Divorced- so were you honest with your wife or did you try to keep it from her? Answer that before you make the same mistake in a new relationship.

There's not a clear-cut answer to this. We met just out of high school and married two years later. She knew what I knew. She knew I rolled my hair from the very beginning. That was really the only manifestation of gender-variant stuff that existed at the time. There were a lot of things that took place when I was growing up that were gender-variant, but they weren't explained to me that way, and I tried not to receive them that way, yet secretly I did. I was small and skinny, and my mom bought a lot of my clothes and shoes from the girls dept. They usually didn't look markedly different from boys, but they fit me better. It seemed to be a matter-of-fact thing with my mom, and a totally genderless decision. Same with my hair. At least as much as she told me, my hair looked better after a roller set. It didn't have anything to do with it being feminine. I'm not sure I buy all that at this stage of my life, but that's how it was explained at the time. My baby book is PINK, for God's sake! I never did tell my wife about that stuff, but she knew about the pink baby book, and there was a disturbingly feminine portrait of me when I was about 6 that hung in my parent's house forever. (BTW, I'm not blaming all this on my mother!)

As soon as we were married and moved away I crossdressed openly (except at work and school), with her complete (or so I thought) support and acceptance. I rolled my hair every day, slept in a nightgown, wore only panties, kept my toes polished all the time (to match hers), and borrowed her clothes. 10 years later when we had kids, I toned it down a lot, but never put it away entirely. When the kids got older, my cding once again escalated. Her attitude varied from coldly distant to complete understanding and encouragment. Of course, I chose to ignore the coldly distant part and focus on the understanding and encouragement.

So there was never a real "coming out". At least not a verbal discussion of one. It was just sort of there.

That's the Cliff''s Notes version.

[NatalieNC]

Hi Rhonda Jean. First I want to commend you for the path you have chosen in your life right now. And embracing it 100%. I am truly sorry that your 30 year relationship has ended, what an incredible amount of time to be with one person. So much history together. But who is to say you were only meant to have 30 years with her? And now is YOUR time to do what you want to do and live your life to the very fullest on your own terms.

Like Thalia, in a couple posts above, my relationship took a very bad turn when she was informed about my cding. Although Thalia is still married, so there is still hope. But I agree with so many of you out there, that our cding is something we should talk to our loved one about at the first. If we love them and trust them to be in our lives so intimately, then we need to respect them enough to be open and honest from the get go. How can we possibly expect them to TRUST us if we tell them after 15 years?

It's just not fair to them. They deserve to know and they deserve to make that decision on their own if they want to be with us and support us, or not. Instead, like my fiance told me, it is more like "you have dragged me into your wierd little world and now I am the one keeping secrets from our friends and family". And it was true. That was something she decided that she was not willing to live with, or live like.

But I also realized something when she left me, which by the way we are still friends ironically, but I realized that cding WAS important to me, and I wasn't willing to give it for HER. She even told me that that was okay, at least I had made a decision. The very best of luck to you Rhonda Jean, you are on the path to a happy life I can tell.

[docrobbysherry]

There's not a clear-cut answer to this. We met just out of high school and married two years later.

It sounds like your CDing may NOT have been the only issue between u 2, Rhonda Jean.

Couples tend to grow together, or apart. After they've been married for awhile! Sounds like your communication may not have been good. Which is QUITE common between couples who marry rite out of high school. U mite have thot everything was great between u, but maybe she had been unhappy for some time?:brolleyes:

Out of ALL the couples that married within a few years of graduating from MY HS class, I'm not aware of more than a few who r still married to each other!:eek:

And THAT was 40 years ago. Folks r EVEN MORE prone to divorce now!:sad:

[Rhonda Jean]

So you find this future girlfriend of yours and all seems to being going so well. You find yourself getting serious, fall in love, move in, get married and keep your cding to yourself as your "little secret".

Whatever length of time down the road you walk in on your girlfriend practicing some ancient ritual! And upon discussion you find out the woman you are in love with believes in some obscure religious belief that you've never heard of.

Now you might not be a very religious person. You might blow it off that she's a part of some strange belief system. But do you honestly believe that you would be "perfectly fine" knowing she has an entire online community she communicates with that you don't know about? That she hides things for her rituals so you don't find them? That she participates in something that she finds so important to her, so a part of who she is without you? Won't you feel even a LITTLE left out? A little upset that she didn't even bother to share it with you to begin with? Won't you feel just SLIGHTLY annoyed that she didn't trust you with the information?

And if you do think such things are trivial, wouldn't you feel even more upset that she would keep something so minor from you?

Or perhaps you are deeply religious/spiritual and you feel this goes against everything you believe in! Maybe you feel that it is something so evil and vile because it doesn't adhere to what you personally believe in or personally follow!

How are you going to feel knowing you moved in with someone who practiced this stuff behind your back? Brought it into your house!

See my point?

When you hide something that is so important to who you are, even if you CAN give it up, aren't you really saying you don't feel the person you are choosing to be with isn't worthy of such knowledge? Aren't you assuming instantly that the person cannot or will not handle it well enough?

I thought relationships were about compromise. How can one be reached when someone doesn't know one is even needed?

Good point, and a good comparison. I don't have a good come-back for this, except to say that I think with the right motivation I can give it up. If I'm not sufficiently motivated, I won't. I don't want to get into a serious relationship unless I can.

The way this whole thing gets played out, from CD's to SO's, it's as if this is the most important thing in our respective worlds and the defining component of our being. I don't think so! There's far more to me than just being a guy who likes to dress as a woman! I don't want that to define me! And I don't want to define/limit my choice of my future SO to being first and foremost a person who'd accept without hesitation that particular aspect of me. I'd LOVE it if she did, and I might find someone who does, but if I find someone whose right in all other ways, is it really asking more of myself to compromise this aspect of myself than it would be to ask of her to accept it?

I hope that perfect woman comes along, but I feel pretty strongly that one day I'm going to face a choice. It may not happen for a long time. I'm having a pretty good time on my own, right now. But, if that choice arrives, I'm pretty confident I can put it away.

I'm reading every response and trying to absorb it all. These have been great, thoughtful, caring responses. I value ALL of them, but I'm not yet convinced that upfront honesty and making this a deal-breaker are for me. I know it's a big deal and there's no one-size-fits-all answer, except... would someone just send me that perfect woman so we can resolve this whole problem!!!! Whew!!

[mklinden2010]

I heard this one time and thought it of great value:

"There are no perfect women, there are no perfect men, there are only some perfect ***holes who happen to be men or women."

Word to the wise, you don't meet perfect people. You meet someone who might work for you and then you spend some time finding out if they're good long-term relationship material. Meanwhile, they're doing the same thing. It's sort of the dance of life...

Then, in five, ten, forty or fifty years, if one of you dies by then and you had a good life up until then, it was great relationship. That's how you know it was a good long-term relationship. Any date short of that... Well, it's just not a "for sure" deal yet.

And, here's a tip for that road: if your SO asks you, "Who's the prettiest woman you know?" the answer is always, "You, baby!"

If you can say it and mean it, you will have a happy life.

[MsJanessa]

sounds to me like you would be headed for another divorce if you go the way you are headed now---or at least a really unhappy (on your part) stressfull relationship---you best bet is to look for a lady that appreciates you for who you are and that includes your crossdressing---trust me, as hard as that might be to tell her at first, its a lot easier than telling her when you are well into the relationship---I don't think you should do it on the first date, but when it starts getting "serious" (sexual) would be the time

[Rhonda Jean]

And, here's a tip for that road: if your SO asks you, "Who's the prettiest woman you know?" the answer is always, "You, baby!"

OMG! I just knew you were going to say ME, baby!!!

[NatalieNC]

Oh wow, if there WAS a perfect anyone out there I'd sure like to know! Cuz THEY too are looking for that perfect man. I think we can set ourselves up by expecting SO much from that one person that no one could possibly even come close to being 'the one'. Just enjoy each day whether you are with someone or not. I have thoroughly learned to enjoy my own company and even more so the company of my friends, more than I ever have. I think sometimes we feel we need someone in our lives to define ourselves, to be complete. We need to be complete before we are with someone, and love ourselves as well. Each day is a stepping stone to the path of our lives. Enjoy each minute. We never know how much time we have.....

[mklinden2010]

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryklinden View Post

>And, here's a tip for that road: if your SO asks you, "Who's the prettiest woman you know?" the answer is always, "You, baby!"

>>OMG! I just knew you were going to say ME, baby!!!


Good shot!

Well, OK, sometimes it happens that way too.

But, hey, if we both think it's funny, why not?

Those SOs, the good ones love to laugh.

Go for one of those!

[Di]

I hope when you meet someone and it starts getting serious you do NOT kid yourself you can or will be able to put it totally behind you for a relationship.I just cannot see that happening .I have heard many MANY say the same exact thing.
I also want to say.........do not short change yourself you want someone that loves, cares and accepts all of you and vice versa.
Best Wishes:hugs:

[DemonicDaughter]

Good point, and a good comparison. I don't have a good come-back for this, except to say that I think with the right motivation I can give it up. If I'm not sufficiently motivated, I won't. I don't want to get into a serious relationship unless I can.

The way this whole thing gets played out, from CD's to SO's, it's as if this is the most important thing in our respective worlds and the defining component of our being. I don't think so! There's far more to me than just being a guy who likes to dress as a woman! I don't want that to define me! And I don't want to define/limit my choice of my future SO to being first and foremost a person who'd accept without hesitation that particular aspect of me. I'd LOVE it if she did, and I might find someone who does, but if I find someone whose right in all other ways, is it really asking more of myself to compromise this aspect of myself than it would be to ask of her to accept it?

I hope that perfect woman comes along, but I feel pretty strongly that one day I'm going to face a choice. It may not happen for a long time. I'm having a pretty good time on my own, right now. But, if that choice arrives, I'm pretty confident I can put it away.

I'm reading every response and trying to absorb it all. These have been great, thoughtful, caring responses. I value ALL of them, but I'm not yet convinced that upfront honesty and making this a deal-breaker are for me. I know it's a big deal and there's no one-size-fits-all answer, except... would someone just send me that perfect woman so we can resolve this whole problem!!!! Whew!!

Does it define you solely? No. But it is a part of who you are even if you are successful in one day giving it up. The point would be that at this moment in your life, its shaping the person you are becoming. Every experience helps us define who we are as people. To exclude one might mean you miss out on something great.

Perhaps the woman you fall in love with might actually enjoy your cding but you giving up that portion of your life and never giving her the opportunity to express a like or dislike means you miss out on enjoying that part of who you are.

And stuff like this always ends up biting you in the arse eventually. Things always come back to haunt us. One way or another.

[kellycan27]

We all want to be in loving,caring relationships. whether you think you can quit or not,honesty is the best policy when starting out. Deciet and sneaking around behind someone's back isn't fair to your SO or even yourself. If cross dressing is just something that she can't live with, or something that you can't live without..what kind of live do you envision for yourselves? Ask yourself this..... Can I really give it up? Or is the desire to be in a relationship causing me to "rationalize",only to come back later and say... I was wrong I can't give it up? Be honest from the start...if it doesn't work out,it probably wasn't meant to be. It's hard, but there are accepting people out there.. you just have to search them out, and what better way than to be open and honest from the get-go?

[Rhonda Jean]

You know, it has ocurred to me after reading all these replies that I've NEVER really had to live without it. Even when I was a kid with the boy-looking (sort of) clothes from the girl's dept. and the long hair and curlers. Even though these things weren't offered to me specifically as things to satisfy some gender-variant leanings, they did. There were several things like that when I was growing up. I really had no idea how good I had it. For that matter, I didn't even know I had it! I honestly have absolutely no life experience to indicate that I can live happily without indulging my feminine side.

I do now have life experience to judge my relative happiness with and without a meaningful relationship. It's an absolute fact that I'm much happier within one, and I'm quite willing to forego some of my current freedom to have one. I'm not desparate for one, but I know I need one.

This is scarry stuff. It's a chicken way out to enter into a relationship without this disclosure, and that may, in fact, be what I do. I'm really afraid to go through the horrors of another lost relationship.

When I got married so young, I was quite naive and somewhat deluded. My wife was a beautiful girl. I really thought that she found me beautiful in the same ways that I did her. I sincerely thought that she was attracted to long hair, soft skin, soft fabrics, long polished nails, sexy lingerie, glinting jewelry, strappy heels, beautiful feminine clothes, and meticulously applied makeup on me, just as I was on her. I had no idea that she (or anybody else, for that matter) might actually prefer rough, hairy, coarse. I still don't get what the attraction is, because it doesn't attract me. I'm well aware by now, though, that women are attracted to men, and that typically doesn't include the feminine accoutrements mentioned above.

In all seriousness, I've considered the nail salon as a potential meeting place for an accepting woman! I almost always have a nice conversation with women at the nail dryer. That would take care of getting some of this out in the open very early! I'm not going to overlook the possibility anymore. Gawd... Even as I type that it seems kind of ridiculous.

[Misty is Kindafem]

Kay wrote so much great stuff

Um, I'm stunned by the love and understanding in your post.

I honestly don't know what to say except;

...you truly, and profoundly rock.


-Misty

[5150 Girl]

Do I think you should tell her on your first date? Definately not... However, tell her ASAP!I outed to my curent SO the second time we met, but then again, it was Haloween.

[Rhonda Jean]

I understand where Misty is coming from. The other part of the scary side of revealing this side of us is the beauty in finding someone who fully accepts all of us. It's been stated over and over throughout this thread. What a beautiful thing it is! I've been there too, for a long time. There's simply nothing like it. I'm not sure there's anything in an ordinary male/female relationship that can compare.

All during my marriage I felt that our marriage was better and stronger because of the good (feminine) quallties that I brought to the relationship and the extra dose of love from her required, expressed, and manifested by her tolerance. It was a good and beautiful thing, or at least it seemed so to me.

[Presh GG]

I must agree with Deja True.
Halloween
When she sees you look lovely , you're at ease with yourself and her, she will realize it's just alot of fun and nothing to be afraid of.

But if you hide it too long her imagination can and will make all kinds of wrong assumptions.

the best of luck to you.

springtime gg

[Noxvictum]

I hate to see such pessimism. It's a learned trait, and it has its uses. Can't say I always see the silver lining myself. I do see where you are coming from, Rhonda. I see one of the problems (please forgive the generalization, but it is necessary) is conflicting experience. We all know what rejection is, and most if not all of us have seen more then one kinda of rejection. We know we're a bit weird as far as most people are concerned (I find them equally weird). We know that not everyone can fully accept who we are. Happens to "normal" people all the time. Some if not all of us also see romance in a more serious light than those around us. I for one expect a level of sacrifice in commitment to someone else. The choice of whether whatever I am required to give up is too much is mine alone (FYI, friends are always too much to give up). Maybe a lady might be worth giving up CDing. I think I'd ask in some way along the lines of "I'm different from most folks, and most people can't handle different. There's nothing wrong with me, but it is a part of me. It's hardly serious, but my perception is different." Then I'd ask if she would like to know what I'm talking about or just to leave it in the proverbial closet. Course, I'd kinda hope curiousity at the very least would get the better of her. Of course, here's where it gets sticky. On the one hand, I'd be more than willing to give up that part of me. On the other, I'd be disappointed that she doesn't want to hear it whether it is because she doesn't trust you that it's not that bad (seriously, what harm does it do), or she's asking for more than she's willing to give (sounds kinda bad, but this is already worst case scenario).

Ya'll think that about says it? This comes up a lot, so I thought an in depth analysis was in order. Someone's gotta do it, right? :heehee:

[Rhonda Jean]

Love y'all! You've all been so GREAT with all these heartfelt responses! You just don't know how much this means to me (or maybe you do!).

Maxi mentioned something back on the first page about it being easier with someone who hasn't known you for a long time as a guy. When I thought about that, I realized that evryone I've dated since my divorce has either known me for a long time as a guy or knew someone who'd known me for a long time. I haven't really explored any "new ground". They all seemed like new ground because they were not my wife. It was a while before it didn't seem like cheating. I need to find a way and be more courageous about meeting new women. I'm close to trying online dating. That should be new enough.

Noxvictum mentioned conflicting experience. This is very true. The best advice any of us can give comes from our own very personal set of life experiences, otherwise it's just conjecture. Y'all have been very open and very forthcoming with your own very personal opinions derived from your own very personal experiences, and in one way or another they're all similar to mine. It's quite fascinating.

A few years ago I would have responded to a thread like this with my own tale of finding the perfect balance within the perfect marriage. In fact, I think I did! You all know how that eventually turned out for me. It just took a long damn time. My how things change!

Up until the time things went to s$#t for me, I thought I had it all figured out. Fact is, I'm of an age where I tend to think I have most things figured out. This dating thing for me is confoundingly unfamiliar, as it should be for someone whose been married their whole life. Even strictly as a guy, it's a whole new big scary world. Throw in the fact that I'm a crossdresser and... Whew! I've got a lot to learn, and I'm not used to that.

Absorbing all these replies has made me realize that I really should make finding an accepting woman a priority. At this point, not for some long-term committment, but certainly as a social outlet. How great that must be! I should pursue it!

To cut to the chase, the big sticking point would still be confidentiality. I just went through the abject fear that my ex wife would out me. She didn't, at least that I'm aware. If she did, it hasn't come back to me. A casual girlfriend would have less to lose by doing so than she would. I'm sure that where I work would come up pretty early on. I'm not sure how to deal with a casual friend having that kind of ammunition. Another bear to cross, I suppose.

[sarahNZ]

I understand....,
I couldn't not tell her, if I really cared about her.



Bingo!...

I have to agree with this!

[mklinden2010]

>>To cut to the chase, the big sticking point would still be confidentiality. I just went through the abject fear that my ex wife would out me. She didn't, at least that I'm aware. If she did, it hasn't come back to me. A casual girlfriend would have less to lose by doing so than she would. I'm sure that where I work would come up pretty early on. I'm not sure how to deal with a casual friend having that kind of ammunition. Another bear to cross, I suppose.


When it comes to dating, most women are shoppers. If something doesn't work out, they just move on and nothing more usually gets said, or, done. Particularly if you don't waste a lot of their time or disappoint them with false hope. "Thank you very much. Good luck in your search."

In dating reportage, people usually don't listen anyway. For example, "Don't date that guy. He stalked his last two girlfriends!" Response: "Oh, just because they had problems with him, that doesn't mean I will." And, if they do listen to someone bash another, they more often hear the negative "gossip" and think, "This is a negative person. She'll cut anybody with that tongue." "Mum," is the better word and nearly everyone knows it.

On the broader front (work, etc.) just present more and more as being "a bit different" so when issues come up people are more comfortable shrugging it off by saying, "Well, you know... That's just them."

No one has mentioned it, by the way, but as a divorced male with a 30 year track record of commitment, you're a highly marketable commodity to women looking for a long-term good guy. That you may have a few flaws, which aren't cheating, drugs, gambling, or alcohol (to name a few) means that your odds are good that you'll meet some fine woman who says:

"Is that all? I wear women's clothes too!"

[Rhonda Jean]

>>No one has mentioned it, by the way, but as a divorced male with a 30 year track record of commitment, you're a highly marketable commodity to women looking for a long-term good guy. That you may have a few flaws, which aren't cheating, drugs, gambling, or alcohol (to name a few) means that your odds are good that you'll meet some fine woman says:

"Is that all? I wear women's clothes too!"

OMG that last part was funny!! I just spit Mt. Dew down my down my uncomfortably pushed-up cleavage!!!

AS to the rest of it... Your lips (keyboard) to God's ears!

[docrobbysherry]

I need to find a way and be more courageous about meeting new women. I'm close to trying online dating. That should be new enough.

Throw in the fact that I'm a crossdresser and... Whew! I've got a lot to learn, and I'm not used to that.

Rhonda Jean, I think you'll find a LARGE pool of nice women on line. Depending on how many people live in your area. There seems to be a good many that r coming out of broken marriages. They work, have kids at home, and/or aren't interested in the club/bar scene!

As others have said, you'd be prime for many of them. Because u COMMITTED once! Some r NOT interested in marriage. Just want to get out and meet new guys!

Maybe you'll get a FEEL for when to tell dates about your CDing? Why not try it out on someone that u just met, but aren't REALLY interested in, long term?

GOOD LUCK, RJ! I think you're a WINNER! :thumbsup:

[Lorileah]

1st date, it's something you keep to yourself. Second date, maybe the same. Third date, it is time for the kiss goodnight (read that in Emily Post) so you should start thinking about what you need to let her know. How to avoid all the pitfalls you mention?

1) be honest with yourself. It isn't illegal. It isn't wrong. No one dies from it. It does not make you a bad person (Sean Hannity please read the "not" there).

2) is it love or lust? Lust fades quickly. Passion dies to embers. Love lasts longer (as the song goes "If love never lasts forever, tell me , what's forever for?"). Love sees the inside person, not the outside person.

3) Love yourself, then loving the other person comes easy.

4) You both have secrets. Some are important to the relationship. Some aren't. Only two things stand in the way of anything. Time and money. In this case it's time. The time you invest in the relationship cannot be regained. If you hide for one, two or three years then she finds out you both have lost valuable time you could have been using to find someone who REALLY cares about you. If you consider this a make or break deal for the relationship, bring it out early. Life is short, don't waste what you have.

5) when it comes to the bottom line, you are the only one you have to be happy with. If you spend your whole life living up to someone else's expectations, you will have regrets. Regrets are ultimately more painful than getting dumped. Regrets ferment and grow. When you start regretting things you become embittered. You turn those regrets on the other person and soon you blame them for every reason you THINK you are unhappy. Remember the time investment? You both are placing a lot on the trust in the other person. You can't get it back when it's gone.

You should only regret what you did not do, not what you did. If you do something that does not work out, you learn from it and move on. You say "that was not the brightest move I ever made". If DON'T do it you will wonder what it could have been. Just don't make your last words "hey ya'll watch this".

[KayC]

Thank you, Misty. I was trying to be honest and transparent in the hopes that Rhonda Jean could see my point...why give up your dreams? It's very apparent he/she is a CD, why try to give that up and risk being unhappy? And why settle for a less than great relationship? If the person is "the one", they will love all of him for who he is and not try to change him. If they are shocked at first and don't understand, they can together work on finding the right solutions for them and she will learn and care and they will go on to have a good life together. But NO good relationship is based on dishonesty or sacrificing oneself. I have spend a great deal of time learning from marriagebuilders.com and one of the things I learned there is that you don't give up who you are for someone else because it causes resentment which is a detriment to the relationship. Yes a couple can make compromises...those compromises would be about how often, how much time spent, how much $ spent, etc...not about whether it happens at all! You both strive for the good of the relationship, not just one or the other, and it means give and take, but not at self-sacrifice to one. I'm sure he has many wonderful qualities to bring to the relationship, he should realize that and that alone should give him confidence to go out and look for that right person for him, she exists, it's up to him to find her!
And I want to add: it doesn't look to me that he did anything wrong in connection with his wife, maybe the divorce was more a statement about HER not effectively communicating HER wishes/needs/desires. She shouldn't have "tolerated" him, she should have LOVED him! It's very unfortunate what happened to him, she should have been upfront with HIM a lot longer ago.

[JulieC]

I just want to lay out another aspect of this. I think this applies in general, but also specifically to this situation.

Many CDers face the problem of despising themselves in one form another. At one point or another in our lives;

We're afraid of the public's reaction
We're afraid to buy things in a store
We're terrified of our parents finding out
We're horrified at the specter of our employers finding out
We try to hide the CDing from everyone
We go through purges
We feel alone
We feel different
We feel ostracized
We feel like we can cure ourselves, put it behind us

All of these are negative things. So, a woman comes along and enters our life. She sees a man not just in women's clothes, but a man who has these fears, these self loathings, these guilts. What's she supposed to think? "Oh that's just grand! He has this deep, dark secret that he is torturing himself with! I think I'll fall in love with him..."

I've struggled with this myself, for years on uncountable years. It's an internal struggle, and one that does not resolve easily. I'm still working on it.

But, to be the best person I can be what I strive for is this:

I can't CD in public where people know me. Not because I'm afraid of myself, but because of the impact it could have on my wife and kids.
I can't change society. Regardless of how much love or hate their is, I have to exist within it. That creates certain boundaries that I must recognize, and recognize it in the context of my family.
I will not be ashamed of being a crossdresser. I am who I am.
I will take pleasure in dressing, and dressing when the mood suits and opportunity allows. I will not feel guilty about it, and I will not hide it from my wife.
I will constantly strive to make crossdressing a net positive, not a net negative.
I refuse to accept that crossdressing is unhealthy in any respect.


It's not perfect, and it's still evolving. But, by refusing to accept it as a negative I approach it as a positive. My wife, who is in full knowledge and support, doesn't see me treating it as a negative. It's not a deep, dark secret. It's just another healthy aspect of me. That, I think, makes it a lot more acceptable.

If you (not Rhonda in particular, just in general you) hate your crossdressing, certainly any spouse will too. What else could we expect?

[Rhonda Jean]

Kay,
Your very beautiful outlook on relationships is just, well... beautiful! I may be wrong, but I think that women like you, although y'all seem plentiful on this board, are extremely rare. I'd have to be beyond lucky to find someone like you. I'm just not counting on it.

In deferrence to most of the responders, I haven't been out there long enough to really know. I AM inspired now to consider it a real possibility. It may be like the proverbial needle in a haystack, but... there is a needle in there somewhere! I'm just not sure how much hay my allergies can stand in order to find it.

I'm a very selfless person. I would have given all this up for my wife if she had ever asked. She didn't think I could, either. As I've said before, there's more to me than just this. If I had to or decided to give it up, there's a lot more that I'd still have/be.

I agree with everything you've said, but I can also see the flip side. Let's say I find someone with all the appropriate wonderful qualities, yet there's this one thing that prevents me from fully appreciating her for the wonderful person she is, and that one thing is her likely inability to accept that I'm a crossdresser. Shouldn't I be willing to overlook that one "flaw" and appreciate all those other wonderful qualities to the fullest? I think I should, and would. That doesn't keep me from hoping for someone without flaw, but, back to that "needle" again.

[mklinden2010]

>>I agree with everything you've said, but I can also see the flip side. Let's say I find someone with all the appropriate wonderful qualities, yet there's this one thing that prevents me from fully appreciating her for the wonderful person she is, and that one thing is her likely inability to accept that I'm a crossdresser. Shouldn't I be willing to overlook that one "flaw" and appreciate all those other wonderful qualities to the fullest? I think I should, and would. That doesn't keep me from hoping for someone without flaw, but, back to that "needle" again.


You're needling yourself... Stop that!

There is no flip-side. You are what you are.

Willpower is a silly idea anyway. It won't push a stalled car, it won't pay the electric bill, and, it can't cook an egg. But, it can get in your way, or, get you out of your way.

Any person with the wonderful qualities you mention will have the understanding and acceptance you seek (and need) or she'll be five cents short of a sale.

Stop "hoping" and actively get to work on that great relationship you've been talking about.

It's Friday - go someplace and chat up some dames. Do that enough and one of them will grab you and make you buy her a house...

Get one you like... Yeah, her too.

[JulieC]

In deferrence to most of the responders, I haven't been out there long enough to really know. I AM inspired now to consider it a real possibility. It may be like the proverbial needle in a haystack, but... there is a needle in there somewhere! I'm just not sure how much hay my allergies can stand in order to find it.

What's that quote? Nothing to fear but fear itself?

Please understand, I'm not being flip. If you allow yourself to be seriously negatively affected by someone's opinion, you are vesting your self worth in the opinions of someone you don't really want to be around anyways. What sense does that make?

Shortly before I met my wife, I made a decision that I wasn't going to spend a lot of time on a given relationship anymore unless I knew it was going somewhere. I wouldn't spend more than a few months. Sometime during those few months, I'd tell the lady in question that I was a crossdresser. If they ran for the hills, so be it. I'd set out to be determined that I would be thankful for them leaving, since it'd save me time I could spend finding the _right_ person.

Rejection can be hard. After spending 30 years out of the dating field, it can be hard to consider being rejected. When I was in bootcamp, we had a morale booster for when things really got crappy; "They can't take your birthday away". Ok, so someone rejects you and your crossdressing. So what? She can't take your birthday away. You're going to wake up the following morning, put on your pantyhose, and get on with living...and she would have saved you the time and effort you would have otherwise spent on her.



I agree with everything you've said, but I can also see the flip side. Let's say I find someone with all the appropriate wonderful qualities, yet there's this one thing that prevents me from fully appreciating her for the wonderful person she is, and that one thing is her likely inability to accept that I'm a crossdresser. Shouldn't I be willing to overlook that one "flaw" and appreciate all those other wonderful qualities to the fullest? I think I should, and would. That doesn't keep me from hoping for someone without flaw, but, back to that "needle" again.

You know, giving up crossdressing when you are a crossdresser is like intentionally handicapping yourself. If you lost an arm, a leg, a kidney, a lung, had 3rd degree burns over your entire face...sure, you'd have a lot more than the missing parts/burn scars to offer someone. But would you intentionally lop off a leg to be with someone? Even an otherwise perfect someone? I doubt it.

Everybody has flaws. The trick isn't to find a 'perfect' person. The trick is to find a person who's flaws are not significant to you, or do not cause anger, resentment, etc. If a prospective spouse for you has the 'flaw' of not being the type to accept crossdressing, it will forever eat at you. The desire to crossdress will not go away, and you will be immersed in a pool of women's clothes, forever told "don't get wet!".

Could you make it work? Could you spend the next 20-30 years of your life without crossdressing? Maybe. It's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Even if you do make it possible, you'll spend all those years effectively handicapped, but not in a physical way...an emotional way, a spiritual way, a psychological way.

Nobody can tell how this self repression will affect you. Only you can do that. But, consider the ramifications of essentially jailing a portion of yourself permanently, and what kind of impact it will have on you and your prospective spouse.

Trying to find a woman who accepts crossdressing reduces the size of the pool of possible candidates. There's no changing that. It's also true that the size of the pool is reduced because of various other aspects of you. You can't change those either.

There are women out there (some on this very forum!) who view crossdressing as an asset in their spouses. My wife certainly does. She sees qualities in me she hadn't found in other men. Are those qualities there because I'm a crossdresser? I don't know anymore than anyone else does. But, it makes sense.

Also, stop selling Miss Perfect short. I've seen many stories here of people who thought there's no way their spouses would ever be supportive, and found out otherwise, much to their amazement. Further, if you don't tell her about your crossdressing, you'll never...ever...know for certain if she's accepting of you or not. If you never tell her, you are guaranteeing the answer to her acceptance is no, since you're never giving her the opportunity to answer that, and without asking the effect is the same as 'no'.

There have been societies where people who were third-gendered (much like us) were revered as great people, with gifts beyond the two gender model. The constructs in our society that lead you to think so poorly of crossdressing are wrong.

Embrace who you are. Being a crossdresser is not a bad thing. It's a GOOD thing. It's not illegal. You won't die from it. Your spouse won't die from it. Your spouse isn't going to be the victim of abuse from it. Done in concert with your spouse's concerns and wishes, it can certainly be a positive thing.

[Maxi]

I was introduced to my wife on Match. There really is something to their compatability matching. Keep in mind when I first brought her home the end table was a drill press, the TV stand was a table saw, the dining room table held my belt sander, band saw, and bench grinder, and my welder, and lathe were in the laundry room. Turns out she felt right at home, growing up, their house was the same way. Her dad is a construction contracter. Who would have thought it. The only advice I can offer is don't be needey, be independant. Show her you care, but don't smoother her. Give her room to breath.

[Rhonda Jean]

As far as finding tolerant women, we've probably all read that many women are tolerant of crossdressing, as long as it's not their SO. I'm not a club person, so all my cd outings are shopping or hair and nail salons. Lots of women are very nice to me, but only one have I ever considered a potential date. Of course, for 30 years I was married, so I wasn't even looking for or interested in that kind of interaction, so I could have overlooked it.

When I go to the beauty school, I often spend the entire afternoon or longer. Sometimes just a polish change, but I've done foil highlights, roller set, mani/pedi, eyebrow wax, and spa facial all in the same day. Some of them get to know me pretty well. There'll always be a small group gathered around at one point or another while I'm there. Most of these girls are just out of high school. For one year (or however long their training is) there was one woman who was close to my age. She was very attractive, always over-the-top friendly and complimentary, and she'd say and ask anything! She had a relative who was an out CD, and she was quite familiar with it all.

At the time I was separated, and my mental state ranged from hopelessly devastated to just really, really devasted. Had I met her now, I MIGHT have mustered up the courage to ask her out. Maybe I should try to find her. I mean, she was the first person to ever refer to me as bi**ch, and to discuss the pros and cons of breast implants (which she had)! She was so "out there", though, she was kinda scary. I think that people who know me as my femme personna probably think I lead a much more interesting and exciting life than I do. I'm a very low-key person, despite the way I often look when I'm out like that.

Certainly I wouldn't have had to face the decision about disclosure. Then I'd just have to make sure she never found out where I work!

[RobynP]

I've been divorced for several months now and am currently, sort of, not dating. So, I'm sitting here with all the information in the world at my disposal and life experience that includes the loss of a 30 year marriage due to my cding.

Personally, I recommend that you stop dating for awhile to give yourself some quality time to heal. The loss of the 30-year marriage is huge and when one is going through a divorce, we are in no position to see how it affects us.

You don't have to become a hermit... Just cool it for awhile on the "serious" stuff. Give yourself the time to heal the wounds, learn from your mistakes, and enjoy life without all the added stress of a relationship right now...

Just my :2c:

Robyn P.

[sherri52]

Having bee there twice I agree. The sooner you tell your SO the better. If the relationship ends you haven't got much into it, but if she is ok with it your relationship may grow. Do it before the marriage or she'll take half of your earnings with her

[jessidresser]

I just told three femal friends that i'm a crossdresser. I don't have male undies either. They are all ok with it! Maybe we've come a long way!
I could never pass for female, but i can wear everything except a skirt around town.

[lynnd]

Hi Rhonda, Just thought I would give you a bit of my story, to give you one GG perspective. My SO and I are both divorced, after long marriages. When we met and started dating I did not know about cross-dressing. After spending many months together, falling in love, we were starting to have an issue because he would say that once I get to know him I won't like him. There was something that he was not ready to share with me, but he was making it seem like it was something bad. We finally agreed he would stop saying that until he was ready to talk. Long story short, circumstances came about and he told me. Of course he had to tell me more than once because I was not catching on, cross-dressing never crossed my mind. When I did get it, I smiled. And then I understood why he waited to tell me. This was something private that he did not share with people, and I was very happy he shared it with me. I understood that he had to get to know me and us, to trust that I would be private with his life and be open to it. And I am, and we have lots of fun together. I guess my point is not to prejudge what may happen in a relationship. Find someone, see how it goes. Be open when the time is right. I tried my hand at a blog to give a GG perspective, check it out if you like, although it is way past due for a new post. http://funfindinghersheme.blogspot.com

[AmandaM]

Look Kiddo, if my wife ever kicked me out and I had to date again. I would tell them after, say a month or two, when I thought we were gonna get serious. Y'see, they deserve to know, and you deserve someone who knows. Don't sell yourself short. Lot's of women won't care. It's not a black-n-white issue.

[Rhonda Jean]

Hi Rhonda, Just thought I would give you a bit of my story, to give you one GG perspective. My SO and I are both divorced, after long marriages. When we met and started dating I did not know about cross-dressing. After spending many months together, falling in love, we were starting to have an issue because he would say that once I get to know him I won't like him. There was something that he was not ready to share with me, but he was making it seem like it was something bad. We finally agreed he would stop saying that until he was ready to talk. Long story short, circumstances came about and he told me. Of course he had to tell me more than once because I was not catching on, cross-dressing never crossed my mind. When I did get it, I smiled. And then I understood why he waited to tell me. This was something private that he did not share with people, and I was very happy he shared it with me. I understood that he had to get to know me and us, to trust that I would be private with his life and be open to it. And I am, and we have lots of fun together. I guess my point is not to prejudge what may happen in a relationship. Find someone, see how it goes. Be open when the time is right. I tried my hand at a blog to give a GG perspective, check it out if you like, although it is way past due for a new post. http://funfindinghersheme.blogspot.com

Lynn,
Ya' know, with herculean effort, from my shaved skin out, I can sometimes, almost, from a distance, in near darkness... sort of appear to be a woman. Your post is quite an example of what it means to be a woman from the skin in. That's just beautiful!

[Nadia-Maria]

Personally, I recommend that you stop dating for awhile to give yourself some quality time to heal. The loss of the 30-year marriage is huge and when one is going through a divorce, we are in no position to see how it affects us.

You don't have to become a hermit... Just cool it for awhile on the "serious" stuff. Give yourself the time to heal the wounds, learn from your mistakes, and enjoy life without all the added stress of a relationship right now...

Just my :2c:

Robyn P.


I find it as a very good advice.
Don't jump to early in a new "committed" relationship, inasmuch as you are not wholly clear in your mind. That's a very hard issue. Rather often the needs of LTR and CDing are about irreconciliable. Better to date a girlfriend but not living together. She can know about your CDing yet is not obliged to face it on an everyday basis, what may be devastating in the long term, as you already experienced it. An "accpeting" woman may be accepting to-day, and not so accepting to-morrow. Don't take the risk to repeat too quickly the same mistake ...

Empathy and love:love:

[KathyL]

Hi - as an SO who is struggling to accept my husband's cding having found out half way through our marriage, I have to support those who are encouraging you to be open early on in a future relationship. All the information I've seen indicates that your desire to cd will not go away, and may well cause stresses within any new relationship. Given your strong desire to be in one vs being alone, then I think it's worth 'risking' telling any new girlfriend to see how accepting they are. Not on the first date but, as others have said, once you feel comfortable and able to trust them.

Something posted on this site a while ago rang true with me, so I reproduce it here as food for thought:

"It is more important to know what you want, live in the context of what makes you happy and find someone who can live within the framework of what makes you happy without compromising their own happiness. It is no better that they are unhappy either. It only works if you have common values and goals, shared interests and a willingness to respect each other's needs and right to be themselves without need to change."

By not telling a new SO, you are showing you don't trust them, and not giving them the chance to live in a framework that makes them happy as well.

I'm sorry that your marriage ended after so long, and wish you every success in finding new love in your life.

[Ms Mira]

Rhonda,

I haven't been through anything like you have, but I empathize with that feeling of having a relationship vs. dressing, and really only being able to do one. I imagine almost all women would prefer not to date a crossdresser, and for some it would be an outright dealbreaker. With regards to being a crossdresser, that thought of dressing leading to a lonely life is the one that haunts me in the most. In past relationships I never told my SO about dressing; I tell myself that I could these days, but that's so much easier said than done.

I don't want to be one to tell you that you won't be able to resist the urge of dressing or that you can't be happy without... You know yourself better than I do. But I wonder how many of these thoughts you are having, that you would give up dressing for a new relationship, are a result of being in emotional turmoil from a divorce. Can you really be entirely happy without dressing? I guess you just have to evaluate it honestly, figure out what you want, and go after it. You can't fail if you go after what you want.

Good luck Rhonda, I hope you find love again.

[Rhonda Jean]

Hi - as an SO who is struggling to accept my husband's cding having found out half way through our marriage, I have to support those who are encouraging you to be open early on in a future relationship. All the information I've seen indicates that your desire to cd will not go away, and may well cause stresses within any new relationship. Given your strong desire to be in one vs being alone, then I think it's worth 'risking' telling any new girlfriend to see how accepting they are. Not on the first date but, as others have said, once you feel comfortable and able to trust them.

Something posted on this site a while ago rang true with me, so I reproduce it here as food for thought:

"It is more important to know what you want, live in the context of what makes you happy and find someone who can live within the framework of what makes you happy without compromising their own happiness. It is no better that they are unhappy either. It only works if you have common values and goals, shared interests and a willingness to respect each other's needs and right to be themselves without need to change."

By not telling a new SO, you are showing you don't trust them, and not giving them the chance to live in a framework that makes them happy as well.

I'm sorry that your marriage ended after so long, and wish you every success in finding new love in your life.

That's certainly a goal, Kathy, and It'd be a truly wonderful thing to find such a woman and live within that kind of realtionship. That's essentially what I had for a long time

I'm big on the whole relationship thing. I haven't found that sex is particularly hard to find. It's the relationship that's elusive. It's certainly true that sex is a part of it, but the relationship is the thing for me. Even that sounds like a girly attribute. I don't think that's how most single guys prioritize things.

This thread has really encouraged me to not be so resigned to not finding an accepting woman. It's also made me realize that I've never been in a situation where I had to hide the fact that I'm a crossdresser. That might be more difficult than I think it's be.

It's hard to project things out into the future. It's easy for me to claim I'd give it up today for a relationship today, or for the next few months. I have no life experience to know what it'd be like to try to give it up forever. It still sounds like it'd be a matter of choice, albeit a difficult one. I'm obviously in a small minority to think that.

I'm also not sure that as crossdressers we don't overplay the "I can't change" card. I've done it! Even if I really thought that if push came to shove I could probably quit it, if I can convince someone who loves me that it's not my fault, it's not a matter of choice, it's the way I was born, my hormones are out of whack, my mother made me this way, there is no cure, and it's a known fact that crosdressers can't stop... maybe instead of being mad at me she'll be sympathetic, and leave me alone about it and let me have my fun. I've been there, and I think that's a possibility. I don't know that it's a fact.

Fred Sanford's arthritis always flared up when there was work to be done. Sometimes Lamont was sympathetic, sometimes not, but it was always worth a shot!

[JulieC]

I imagine almost all women would prefer not to date a crossdresser

(not picking on you Ms Mira :) )

As I've said to my wife, no little girl dreams of marrying her prince with him in a shining wedding dress.

But, the idea of a good husband is highly subjective. Further, a person's desires, needs, wants, etc. change over time. Sure, a little girl can't imagine their husband in a wedding dress. Yet, that's exactly what some women marry, and very happily so. Why?

Because people have many, many qualities about them. You can be handsome, well educated, well mannered, well spoken, polite, caring, unselfish, slow to anger, open minded, supportive, a good father, financially comfortable, romantic, phenomenal in bed, willing to do laundry, dishes, house chores and more, clean up after the dog, never come home drunk, never throw emotional knives, don't physically abuse, don't get involved in drugs, don't become a workaholic, sociable, a good cook, and zillions of other great qualities...

AND NOT ONE OF THESE IS MUTUALLY EXCLUDED BY BE A CROSSDRESSER.

If all of us were such people, and still crossdressers, and didn't view our crossdressing as some mortal sin to be embarrassed about and tear ourselves up over, women would be falling over themselves to marry us.

The solution isn't in not crossdressing. The solution is in being the best person we can be, period. For me last night, that was wearing a beautiful dress, pantyhose, and a nice pair of sandals while watching the Bills play the Patriots.

[Allsteamedup]

You will have read from many og the GG posts here that is is the years of deceit which hurt the most when you finally admit your cding. It is not the cding itself which is not acceptable, but the deception over a long period of time. This breaches trust, which should be the foundation of relationships. So it's not the fact that you are a cder which hurts, it's the fact that you are a lying cder.
Am I getting through?
So when do you tell seems to be your quandary. Well, don't do the "I only wear pants or tights" routine. Then when you finally admit to more, you wonder why you are not understood. Giving some idea of the extent of your interest, how much time it takes, where it might lead and how you like to look would be good. Then leave it at that.
Anything else might suggest that it is more important than you! Good luck

[Rhonda Jean]

It just dawned on me that, without realizing what I was doing, I think my responses on here detailed the rationalization process that many of us go through before deciding... not to tell. Only the best of intentions.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Only the best of intentions.

And how does that old saying go about the road to hell?


It just dawned on me that, without realizing what I was doing, I think my responses on here detailed the rationalization process that many of us go through before deciding... not to tell.

I admit I'm a little confused about how you didn't realize thats what you were doing, what else was the point of this thread to begin with if it wasn't the rationalizations of not telling?

[docrobbysherry]

It just dawned on me that, without realizing what I was doing, I think my responses on here detailed the rationalization process that many of us go through before deciding... not to tell. Only the best of intentions.

The only folks I know who DON'T rationalize their "questionable" behaviors and/or activities, r DEAD!:brolleyes:

I don't think u can PREDICT how u will feel when u meet that "special" lady. But, u CAN be prepared, and understand your options. :)

If EVERYONE did that, the world would be a HAPPIER, HEALTHIER PLACE!:thumbsup:

[vivianann]

As a person who suffers from sevier lonliness, I tried to give up cding to be in a meaningful relationship, well guess what, it does not work. Even though I told my ex's about my cding before I married them and they seemed supportive before marriage, they changed after marriage and told me to give up the crossdressing. I did give up cding for the ex's, but the desire came back stronger, and I was miserable.
I hate being alone, but I cannot live without cding. when I meet aand date women I usually tell them on the 2nd or 3rd date about my cding, and I do tell them sometime after I have told them that I cannot or will not give up crossdressing, that is when they have a change of heart. You have to be true to yourself and not deny who you are. and like the others have said be totaly honest with her.

[Rhonda Jean]

And how does that old saying go about the road to hell?



I admit I'm a little confused about how you didn't realize thats what you were doing, what else was the point of this thread to begin with if it wasn't the rationalizations of not telling?

Good point. I guess it's all in how I viewed it myself. Not sure I can explain it, but glad you pointed it out. The way I looked at it is, do I make this a part of a new relationship or do I ignore it and put it all behind me. I think my responses indicate the mindset of someone who strongly feels they can put it all behind them for the right woman, the right relationship. I see how this might still look like a distinction without a difference. I see the difference, but it may be only me.


As a person who suffers from sevier lonelyness, I tried to give up cding to be in a meaningful relationship, well guess what, it does not work. Even though I told my ex's about my cding before I married them and they seemed supportive before marriage, they changed after marriage and told me to give up the crossdressing. I did give up cding for the ex's, but the desire came back stronger, and I was miserable.
I hate being alone, but I cannot live without cding. when I meet aand date women I usually tell them on the 2nd or 3rd date about my cding, and I do tell them sometime after I have told them that I cannot or will not give up crossdressing, that is when they have a change of heart. You have to be true to yourself and not deny who you are. and like the others have said be totaly honest with her,

As I continue to absorb all this stuff I begin to question myself more and more. Prior to this thread, I was pretty well convinced that this was a part of me that I could choose to ignore. You'd think by age 51 I'd know! I should have this all figured out by now. The concept of this being such a powerful and intgral part of who I am that I may be absolutely unable to find happiness without it regardless of how otherwise fulfilling the relationship is is pretty disturbing.

I don't know what it's like to have to live totally without it. Throughout my life, to whatever extent my cding "needs" seemed to be at the time, I had an outlet. Maybe not the full buffet of everything I could pollibly desire, but at least an acceptable outlet, even when I was a kid.

As further rationalization for NOT telling, I wonder if there would be little pieces that might provide a satisfactory compromise. (Here we go again!) Or, having come this far, is there no satisfactory retreat?

There have been times when I was pretty satisfied with just wearing panties. When I was a kid it was my hair. Even back then I, of course, would have loved to go full-on girl. Those desires were pretty well satisfied by being allowed to wear my hair long and openly parading around the house in every size and type of curlers immaginable. A gateway or a satisfactory small bit of expression? I don't know!

[TxKimberly]

After reading your post, I've got kind of mixed feelings. First and foremost, I am sorry to hear of the loss of your marriage. I've got 22 years under my belt now and just couldn't dream of what it would be like to see it end.
As to giving up cross dressing for your relationship, I just don't know. I don't know if it is realistic, I don't know if it is something that you should do. I mean should we have to give up this part of ourselves to be happy? I honestly don't know, and sure as hell don't know what I would do myself if faced with that choice. What I DO know is that I respect your goals and your priorities. I respect the fact that you are willing to make a sacrifice like that for your relationship.
As for telling someone your getting serious with, I think there is an element of common sense involved. I'm sure there are exceptions based on the people in question, but I doubt it's wise to tell most women on the first date, or the second, or the third. . .
What I DO advocate though, is that we sure as hell owe it to the women we love to tell them about this before we get to the marriage point. I told my wife a few weeks after our marriage and still feel guilty about that. Let's face it, by not telling her until after marriage, you have proven right out the gate that you are putting your welfare above hers and that is the exact opposite of love. In my opinion, when you love someone, this means you are willing to put their welfare above your own.
If we honestly love a woman, then we should "cowboy up" and tell her the truth so as to give her the chance to make an informed decision regarding spending the rest of her life with one of us.

[Rhonda Jean]

Maybe it comes down to... Is this what I am, or what I do? If it's just something I do, I should be able to choose to not do it. If it's what I am, well, not so much. I suspect everyone's mileage varies on this one. I old enough that I should know that answer. I thought I did. Hummmmm.

[Sarah_GG]

[QUOTE=Rhonda Jean;1864843]

I think the choice for me is to continue to live alone and crossdress to my hearts content or get in to a serious relationship and give it up forever (unless it came out later that she really was into it, and then I'd be pretty hesitant).



Believe me, it is possible to have both!

Good luck :hugs:

[borbiusle]

I don't think I could ever bring myself to admit that I CD to any girlfriend. I've even had girlfriends in the past playfully joke to me to try on their panties or for me to CD downtown to win prize contests at the bar but I always passed on the offer. My biggest fear is my GF losing attraction/respect for me. Besides, I'm hard-pressed to find women who like CD'ers that aren't closet man-haters.

[Satrana]

If all of us were such people, and still crossdressers, and didn't view our crossdressing as some mortal sin to be embarrassed about and tear ourselves up over, women would be falling over themselves to marry us.


Not remotely true. Few women when asked agree to date a CD because of the negative stigma and ignorance about us. The reasons to reject the idea of dating a CD are numerous:

gay
transsexual
sexual pervert
sinful
mixed up in the head
embarrassing parody of women
emotionally unstable
social stigma and ostracization would attach itself to her
loss of family and friends
employment threatened if outed
make her feel like a lesbian
make her feel her femininity is insufficient
make her feel she is competing with another woman for attention and love
how to raise children without them being affected
not wanting to share clothes
not wanting to have to keep such a big secret from everybody
social isolation and inability to have a full social life
not wanting to get involved in alternative lifestyle/couples

and no doubt there are many I have missed. This is why it is a good idea not to reveal your CDing behavior too early on in the dating process if that is your plan. She has to get to know the real you and see you as a worthy person and so more fairly judge if this is something she can accommodate. If you tell at the start she will judge the label and its negativity. Only the most open-minded women disregard labels.

One important item that is not really discussed here is age. A 20+ woman has a different agenda than a 50+ woman. The older lady is usually much wiser and pragmatic, less concerned about what the neighbors think and does not have to deal with the burdens of youthful beauty and having kids.

An older woman is more likely to be seeking a caring sensitive man to share everyday life with. She is not dreaming of wild adventures and what the children will look like.

My advice would be to project your femininity while dating en drab. If a woman loves your feminine values then she would likely not be overly bothered if you later revealed that you dressed as well.

[Elsa Larson]

I recently joined a free internet dating site. The women I have met so far are very nice. Nearly all their profiles list HONESTY as something they expect from a partner. If not stressed in their profile, honesty is mentioned early in the emails.

I will be a crossdresser whether I tell them or not. Given the choice of being a deceptive crossdresser or an honest crossdresser, I choose to be honest with a potential partner. Anything less builds the relationship on a lie.

What if she hid a secret of her own that might be a dealbreaker?

[JulieC]

Satrana, you've listed the reasons so thoroughly that you might almost be suspected of agreeing with them !

But how do you account for the fact that 68% of members on this site are married, and a further 11% have been married and divorced, but the divorce was not related to cross-dressing? That makes 79% of us who seem to be able to combine the two. Only 3% of us have divorced because of CDing. (Source: closed poll entitled What is your marital status?)

That argues to me that either we're all lying to our wives or that women are a lot more broad-minded than you give them credit for.

:yt:

[borbiusle]

I will be a crossdresser whether I tell them or not. Given the choice of being a deceptive crossdresser or an honest crossdresser, I choose to be honest with a potential partner. Anything less builds the relationship on a lie.

What if she hid a secret of her own that might be a dealbreaker?

With relationships, I've always gone the route of "Don't ask, Don't tell". If she never inquiries, I don't feel compelled to tell her which helps me avoid the guilt of lying to her face.

[KayC]

VivianAnn,
I'm sorry you've had this as your experience. It could be that they really thought they could accept it and found that they couldn't. Did you go out with them dressed before marrying? How often were you dressed? Maybe they didn't like giving up so much of the time with the guy side of you. You are right to recognize that you can't and shouldn't change who you are for anyone and right to be upfront and honest. I sincerely hope you meet the right one for you and that you can enjoy this as much as every other aspect of your relationship, together.

borbiusle,
Wow, I'm not a man hater by any means! I've never been around CD before and just figured out three weeks ago that my BF is, but no way did it cause me to lose respect for him! I just want to know him and her better and love them!


Not remotely true. Few women when asked agree to date a CD because of the negative stigma and ignorance about us. The reasons to reject the idea of dating a CD are numerous:

gay not.
transsexual no
sexual pervert not!
sinful says who?
mixed up in the head Don't think so...
embarrassing parody of women That's sad to say!
emotionally unstable Again, not true
social stigma and ostracization would attach itself to her maybe somewhat if outed, but then again, both partners and the relationship might be all the stronger as a result.
loss of family and friends not the ones that count
employment threatened if outed Go into business for yourself
make her feel like a lesbian I don't think anyone could make me feel like a lesbian
make her feel her femininity is insufficient I didn't think this was about me
make her feel she is competing with another woman for attention and love I wouldn't and couldn't compete...you're talking about a woman with insecurities
how to raise children without them being affected I'm already past that but maybe you'd raise children to be more accepting too
not wanting to share clothes Don't have to share, not the same size anyway
not wanting to have to keep such a big secret from everybody Look at it as a mystery...
social isolation and inability to have a full social life Can do anything I care to do now
not wanting to get involved in alternative lifestyle/couples Why limit yourself?

and no doubt there are many I have missed. This is why it is a good idea not to reveal your CDing behavior too early on in the dating process if that is your plan. She has to get to know the real you and see you as a worthy person and so more fairly judge if this is something she can accommodate. Okay, this is a good idea. If you tell at the start she will judge the label and its negativity. Only the most open-minded women disregard labels. Why would you pick or want someone who is not open minded?

One important item that is not really discussed here is age. A 20+ woman has a different agenda than a 50+ woman. The older lady is usually much wiser and pragmatic, less concerned about what the neighbors think and does not have to deal with the burdens of youthful beauty and having kids.

An older woman is more likely to be seeking a caring sensitive man to share everyday life with. She is not dreaming of wild adventures and what the children will look like.

My advice would be to project your femininity while dating en drab. If a woman loves your feminine values then she would likely not be overly bothered if you later revealed that you dressed as well. Show who you really are and find out if she loves you as is.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

With relationships, I've always gone the route of "Don't ask, Don't tell". If she never inquiries, I don't feel compelled to tell her which helps me avoid the guilt of lying to her face.

What? Purposefully withholding vital information is just as dishonest as lying. And if she did ask, why lie about it?

[borbiusle]

What? Purposefully withholding vital information is just as dishonest as lying. And if she did ask, why lie about it?

If she asks, I wouldn't lie about it personally, lying is very hard for me to do with someone I'm intimate with. But as far as bringing up the topic on my own, if you got a good thing going with a chick, why shoot yourself in the foot and ruin the fun? This is a girlfriend we're talking about, not a fiance, not a wife. I'm 22 years old, and I run around the world in the military blowing up bad guys for a living, so I'm not in that "looking for Mrs. right and sail into the sunset" mindframe by any means. I value sustaining a relationship over sharing my cross-dressing thing with a girl and praying she accepts it any day of the week.

Besides, CD'ing, for the most part, is really a selfish thing. It's all making yourself feel good and expressing that other side of yourself, which is great. But, I don't know too many girls my age that are cool with embracing that aspect of it, much less finding it attractive.

[Frédérique]

This is why it is a good idea not to reveal your CDing behavior too early on in the dating process if that is your plan. She has to get to know the real you and see you as a worthy person and so more fairly judge if this is something she can accommodate. If you tell at the start she will judge the label and its negativity. Only the most open-minded women disregard labels.


I waited four years before I told my ex-girlfriend – notice the “ex.” She was as open-minded as they come, not constrained by public opinion about anything, an artist and borderline repressed tomboy herself, but it wasn’t enough. All of the things in Satrana’s list ran through her mind, just more things she had to consider in her overloaded life and perhaps deal with in our future relationship. It took awhile for it all to sink in (in fact this took a toll on me), and we eventually broke up – my crossdressing wasn’t the only reason, but it was definitely a factor in her decision, since she outed me at the earliest opportunity post-breakup…


Show who you really are and find out if she loves you as is.


As they say, there are plenty of fish in the sea -- is this why love stinks? :heehee: My question is this – if you dress like a woman, want to feel like a woman, dream of being a woman, or act like your idea of what a woman should act like, then why do you need to go out and get yourself a woman? Look in the mirror and be happy with yourself, for crying out loud – you’ve already got one! I had an extremely girly-girly girlfriend who completely displaced my femme nature by simply being herself. She had (and still has) excellent taste in clothes and accessories, she’s a master at makeup application, and her manners, comportment and personality scream FEMALE. I was left with nothing to do, and, I’ll tell you, I was very unhappy – I loved being with her, but I had to be a male, which goes against my nature big time. Needless to say, that relationship ended, but she never knew I was a crossdresser. I just knew I could never bring it up, but by that point I was so un-feminine I couldn’t even find my magic closet…

[Rhonda Jean]

I waited four years before I told my ex-girlfriend – notice the “ex.” She was as open-minded as they come, not constrained by public opinion about anything, an artist and borderline repressed tomboy herself, but it wasn’t enough. All of the things in Satrana’s list ran through her mind, just more things she had to consider in her overloaded life and perhaps deal with in our future relationship. It took awhile for it all to sink in (in fact this took a toll on me), and we eventually broke up – my crossdressing wasn’t the only reason, but it was definitely a factor in her decision, since she outed me at the earliest opportunity post-breakup…

Not sure I'd consider that 4 years a waste. You got to love someone and be loved for 4 years, as opposed to spending the same 4 years searching.



As they say, there are plenty of fish in the sea -- is this why love stinks? :heehee: My question is this – if you dress like a woman, want to feel like a woman, dream of being a woman, or act like your idea of what a woman should act like, then why do you need to go out and get yourself a woman? Look in the mirror and be happy with yourself, for crying out loud – you’ve already got one! I had an extremely girly-girly girlfriend who completely displaced my femme nature by simply being herself. She had (and still has) excellent taste in clothes and accessories, she’s a master at makeup application, and her manners, comportment and personality scream FEMALE. I was left with nothing to do, and, I’ll tell you, I was very unhappy – I loved being with her, but I had to be a male, which goes against my nature big time. Needless to say, that relationship ended, but she never knew I was a crossdresser. I just knew I could never bring it up, but by that point I was so un-feminine I couldn’t even find my magic closet…

That part about the girly girly girlfriend is especially interesting. I'd think, hope, and pray that if I found that she displaced my femme nature (I like that phrasing) that that's exactly what I'd want. Based on your experience, maybe not.

[suchacutie]

I've just read through most every word of this thread. Let me see if I can sort out my thoughts:

1) Since your ex knows, and since you also agree that the breakup at least included your CDing, what happens when either a) your new love speaks to your ex who asks the new love how she likes your CDing, or b) what happens when you are asked why your first marriage failed? I presume you don't want to start the new relationship off on a lie, so your options would be limited to asking her to not ask, or to telling her! That would mean she initiated the conversation and very well might ask when you were going to break the news of this very personal issue with her.

2) After my wife and I discovered Tina, one comment she made was that she was honored (her word) that I would trust her enough to share this part of me with her, especially since we didn't really understand Tina at all at that point. This exploration of Tina immediately became OUR exploration, not MY exploration. Obviously women are a great source of information about woman!

3) If you can't trust a new heartthrob to be discrete about your CDing, then maybe you can't trust much more about her? heh?

4) Losing a potential love early in the relationship is probably highly superior than having it all come out later, no?

5) The more I know about the Tina in me, the more I truly believe that we who strive to understand and emulate woman are better companions than men who are proud to not understand how women think. I'm sure that a potential mate who really wants a MAN will want you to assure her that you are not about to run off for SRS, or want to be 24/7 en femme, but those kinds of discussions are worth having and will make her more secure before any permanent commitment.

Lastly, explaining any deep-seated feeling to a potential spouse is scary. For example, I have played the violin for over 50 years, and am not about to stop. I will continue to perform 6-10 concerts per year, and that takes some time commitment. My wife knew that up front and understood that I could not and would not ever be able to give up this passion. I spend a lot more time with my violin under my chin than I do en femme, so it's a bit deal in our relationship. CDing is a personal passion that likewise cannot be simply stopped. It is part of us. It affects how we look at the world and eventually it will come out. Openness is something that starts early if it is to add to a successful relationship. Surely any personal openness can only start when you have determined that your love is the kind of person who values openness. That needs to be determined first, not because of CDing, but for the basis of a lasting relationship.

I am so sorry that your feminine self created tension in your previous marriage. Finding a wife who will enjoy exploring your feminine side will take away much of that previous heartache!

all my best,
Tina

[Rhonda Jean]

I've just read through most every word of this thread. Let me see if I can sort out my thoughts:

1) Since your ex knows, and since you also agree that the breakup at least included your CDing, what happens when either a) your new love speaks to your ex who asks the new love how she likes your CDing, or b) what happens when you are asked why your first marriage failed? I presume you don't want to start the new relationship off on a lie, so your options would be limited to asking her to not ask, or to telling her! That would mean she initiated the conversation and very well might ask when you were going to break the news of this very personal issue with her.

2) After my wife and I discovered Tina, one comment she made was that she was honored (her word) that I would trust her enough to share this part of me with her, especially since we didn't really understand Tina at all at that point. This exploration of Tina immediately became OUR exploration, not MY exploration. Obviously women are a great source of information about woman!

3) If you can't trust a new heartthrob to be discrete about your CDing, then maybe you can't trust much more about her? heh?

4) Losing a potential love early in the relationship is probably highly superior than having it all come out later, no?

5) The more I know about the Tina in me, the more I truly believe that we who strive to understand and emulate woman are better companions than men who are proud to not understand how women think. I'm sure that a potential mate who really wants a MAN will want you to assure her that you are not about to run off for SRS, or want to be 24/7 en femme, but those kinds of discussions are worth having and will make her more secure before any permanent commitment.

Lastly, explaining any deep-seated feeling to a potential spouse is scary. For example, I have played the violin for over 50 years, and am not about to stop. I will continue to perform 6-10 concerts per year, and that takes some time commitment. My wife knew that up front and understood that I could not and would not ever be able to give up this passion. I spend a lot more time with my violin under my chin than I do en femme, so it's a bit deal in our relationship. CDing is a personal passion that likewise cannot be simply stopped. It is part of us. It affects how we look at the world and eventually it will come out. Openness is something that starts early if it is to add to a successful relationship. Surely any personal openness can only start when you have determined that your love is the kind of person who values openness. That needs to be determined first, not because of CDing, but for the basis of a lasting relationship.

I am so sorry that your feminine self created tension in your previous marriage. Finding a wife who will enjoy exploring your feminine side will take away much of that previous heartache!

all my best,
Tina

The things you said about relationships in general and about you and your wife, I've said the same thing.... about 3 years ago. Thanks, though. I know how you meant it.

[Glenda58]

Ronda. You to tell the person that you think you are going to get serious with before you do. Because CD will come back and they should know before it happens. Let them make the chose of living with it or not. Don't get them where they feel trapped. I know I did it 3 times and it turn out bad for both of us. This time I told her on the second date 2 yrs ago and we have been married for 2 months now.

[Satrana]

Satrana, you've listed the reasons so thoroughly that you might almost be suspected of agreeing with them ! LOL I suspect that list is only the tip of the iceberg.


But how do you account for the fact that 68% of members on this site are married, This statistic has got nothing to do with the point on why women, when presented with the choice of dating a CD, mostly turn it down. What percentage of the 68% married CDs where upfront about their CD behavior from the very beginning? Only a tiny fraction were.


That argues to me that either we're all lying to our wives or that women are a lot more broad-minded than you give them credit for. No it shows that woman are normal people and will avoid what they consider problematic behavior in their choice of dates. However when women get to know the man and fall in love with them, then they are forced to confront the issue when the revelation is made. Walking out on a committed relationship is not the same as walking out on a first date.

Additionally of those who are married, how many SOs ignore the issue and pretend it does not exist, refuse to see or participate in any manner, tolerate with onerous restrictions or accept the behavior. The simple statistic of marriage does not illuminate what is actually happening inside the relationship.

[Lara Smith]

If you love dressing and your girly self, don't waste yourself and your life and a women’s time by hoping you can tell a girl later. I met so many "regular" women I could have "outed" myself to. I didn't. I learned too late that they truly wanted a guy they could dress and have fun with. Plus many I met after I was married. When I got around to telling my wife (because I loved her so much and couldn't live a lie) she was really good about it and allowed herself to have fun and was very turned on by it and the lesbian fantasies it allowed her to have, then one day she just turned on me and acted like it was only because she loved me and she was doing me a huge favor and couldn't do it anymore, and then all that love and acceptance was gone forever, and our relationship was trashed from then on. Seems to happen the older they get and the less secure they feel. I have noticed this in her girlfriends as well. They used to be so sexy and willing for adventure and then all of a sudden it was like I never knew them.

Do yourself a favor. Don't go into any relationship with out disclosing you like to wear girl things. If you don't you are only asking for pain and serious hardship. If she doesn't want you in panties and heels and a dress, she doesn't want you and never will. I promise.
.

I haven't read all the responses. But I will tell you from nearly 40 years of experience, just tell them, at the earliest opportunity. If they aren't 100% with it; run as fast as you can with your dress over your head to the next girl. It isn't going to work no matter how badly you want it to. There are girls out there who are very turned on by the idea of their guy/girl in panties. Keep looking until you find her. Otherwise you are way better off being on our own in your girl things. Accepting, tolerating or otherwise is NOT going to work. She needs to LOVE it. Anything else is just missing the mark. Please don’t do that to yourself it will only bring heartache and grief to both of you. Find a girl that loves you as a man and dressed as woman. Preferably one that prefers you dressed.

[Elsa Larson]

I met a nice lady at a local singles dance last week. This week, we continued our conversation. AFTER I outed myself, we kept talking, kept dancing and exchanged cell phone numbers.

I even told her I was seriously considering going pretty to the Halloween dance.

[vivianann]

VivianAnn,
I'm sorry you've had this as your experience. It could be that they really thought they could accept it and found that they couldn't. Did you go out with them dressed before marrying? How often were you dressed? Maybe they didn't like giving up so much of the time with the guy side of you. You are right to recognize that you can't and shouldn't change who you are for anyone and right to be upfront and honest. I sincerely hope you meet the right one for you and that you can enjoy this as much as every other aspect of your relationship, together.


I never dressed in front of my ex before I married her, and only dressed a few times during the marriage, I was young and I did not crossdress more than 4 or 5 times a year and because she did not want to see me dressed I only dressed when she was away. that was my 1st ex.
And the same goes for my 2nd ex, I never crossdressed in front of her before marriage, and she only seen me crossdressed once during our ten year marriage, that was on Halloween of course. She forbade me from crossdressing period, so I did not cd for the next 10 yrs, it was too much to deny my true self. I will never do that again. thanks for the kind words KayC, you are a real sweetheart.