Symbol Poll: Sudden Death

[Rachel Ann]

Vote for one only. Write-ins will not be counted. This will be a 5 day poll ending Sunday night. Let’s play fair and everybody refrain from ballot box stuffing, ok? Campaigning is fair, but not bribery or fiddling with the voting machine.

This poll will ONLY be about what the symbol is, not how it be will rendered (ring, pendant, pin, whatever) or what colors will be used. I think that when it is time to decide that, whoever is going to do the work will get more votes than everybody else. :p

Commentary is fine, so here is mine: I already mentioned that I won't wear a butterfly, pink triangle, or anything else a guy wouldn't wear when en drab, which would defeat the purpose of the symbol for those of us who aren't f/t.

Realistically, although the turnout was GREAT, I don't think that 124 people will have the critical mass to start a national trend. But it's a lot of fun anyway, even if for just us!

Rachel xxx

[JoannaDees]

Where is the poll?

[Tristen Cox]

Well I am going to stick by my first choice, although I do like Stephanie's idea more, but I hate going back on things. So I'll vote but hope hers wins anyway:D

[Rachel Ann]

Where is the poll?
Duh! like right here

[crispy]

has to be the mobius strip, in any form you may like to wear it.

how about a twisted clergyman's dog collar ? CD minister of the church :)

[Mia001]

Hi,

I'm a bit unsure what you're asking here. Are you asking for symbol that lets one CD recognise another? Or have I got it wrong?

Mark.

[Wendy me]

girls all i have to say is a sea horse is cute easy on the eyes , blends in well with everything yet stands out ....and rember if your realy going to wear something and a lot of you won't (hay being real ) a sea horse is what we should go for... in the "him" mode on a thick chain ...looks as manly as you want .....on a thin chain looks so pretty it goes any were.....................

[Tiffy]

I voted for the Mobious strip. Wendy, I do love the seahorse (really I do, I have 17 fish tanks in our house) but unless it is on a chain it would be hard for me to find something fitting. And I already have something inportant to me on my chain.

Kisses, April

[Rachel Ann]

Hi, I'm a bit unsure what you're asking here. Are you asking for symbol that lets one CD recognise another? Or have I got it wrong? Mark.
No, you have it exactly right. To be used primarily en drab.

[Teddie]

Commentary is fine, so here is mine: I already mentioned that I won't wear a butterfly, pink triangle, or anything else a guy wouldn't wear when en drab, which would defeat the purpose of the symbol for those of us who aren't f/t.

Get it tattooed on your shoulder, breast, or whereever. I'm thinking about haveing it done. :whistling Sorry, no Mobious strip though :thumbsdn:

[Mia001]

Hi,

I think I'm with the programme now. Like a lot of people I voted for the Mobius strip. Probably like a lot of people I didn't know what that was so I looked it up before I voted. Follow this link for more info.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MoebiusStrip.html

I think it's probably the best one. All of the ones with male / female symbols seem a bit too obvious to me. People know those symbols and are bound to make the connection that they are either sex or gender related. You will get a lot of questions about them.

Yin Yang seems to be a symbol that pops up everywhere. It wouldn't seem strange to wear one but, then, CDs wouldn't be the only people to wear them so it leaves us no better informed as to whether the person is a CD or not.

The animals sound very nice but, as was said before, would look out of place. Especially something like a ladybird / bug or a seahorse.

The Mobius strip doesn't actually have any discernable connection to CDs which is perfect. It's unusual enough not to be an everyday thing. Anyone seeing it either wouldn't realise what it was, wouldn't care or would recognise it as a maths thing. Only a CD would know that it would mean the person was also a CD. Perfect.

Okay, where do we get them?

Mark.

[Wendy me]

iwant the seahosey i give you all tristen's shoes please................

[Tristen Cox]

Bitch! :eek:

[Sweet Jeanette]

I would like to make a few comments here, and I don't want to get anybody mad at me, with what I may say, or mis-say. I looked at the Mobuis strip, and it is pretty, but it is a mathamatical type thing. Like I say, I don't want to get anybody mad at what I say, or mis-say, but a lot of us CDs (Im sure), are not highly educated, (like me), and would not appreciate the symbol for what it is. ---More highly educated people can appreciate this type of thing. A lot of us will lean towards the "pretty" kind of thing, like the simple ladybug, or the butterfly. Even the reversed ring that one showed pics of. It looked pretty, and I could understand it more. This is NOT to say that those of us, that appreciate those kind of things, are dumb, or lacking in education! I believe that it is simply in: ---What appeals to you.----Some may be scared to wear the symbol that is selected by us, out in public when en Drab, maybe because they may hold high-powered jobs, or such, but not I !---That is their decision. I too, have a rather good job, but am not worried about showing who, and what I am! :) ----Those that try to run me down, will have ME to deal with! :eek: ---I don't think they will want to do that! :no: I figure that I will have some mad at me for what I said, and some that were insulted by what I have said, and I DID say, at the begining, ---not to take to heart what I may have mis-said! ----Oh Boy!--Im sure Ill get some flak on this post!

[StephanieCD]

I've definitely said my share about the mobius strip - I would like to add that part of the big draw is that it's NOT something "femmy" - I could wear it to work, in front of anyone, and not be nervous about what they thought about the strange gender symbols or seahorse or whatever - ya know?

Ok, ok... I'll shut up and hope - still gonna push for it, even if the poll tells me otherwise! ;)

:bunny:

[Rachel Ann]

... it is pretty, but it is a mathematical thing.
Yes, but you don't need to know the underlying math to recognize the symbol. And, you can make up just about any explanation you want for it.

Rachel x

[crispy]

there's absolutely nothing mathematical about it. It is just :
- something that is not exactly what it appears to be,
- something that is quite natural but is not what you expect to see,
- something that is more complex than it might appear,
- something that is not easily explained away,
- something that is half twisted but quite OK about it,
- something that seems to have two sides but actually is just one side seen from different perspectives

- IT IS US !! :thumbsup: :cool:

(pweze Twister can i have a hunred votes for that magniffisent countrybushun? I no you can chainge the rools wenever you want two) :rolleyes:

[Tristen Cox]

No that wouldn't be very fair would it, but I can fix your avatar for you :whistle:

[Tiffy]

I agree with Crispy. Well said.

April

[Lady Jayne]

Butterfly,Sea horse, Ladybug,Yin yang, M&F symbol, they are all very nice but quite obviouse and girly the only one I would feel comfortable wearing in drab is the Mobius strip....and it's pretty! it got my vote.

[Clare]

I voted seahorse, but the butterfly also comes a close second imho.

Christine

[Wendy me]

ok girls look the sea horse is the veary best choise it's way too clear...the sea horse on a hevey chain strong and "manly " for those in to that .....and cute and pretty on a thin girly chain....just for your speciel girl ....after all is she not worth it????? just think how mutch bouth of you will like the sea horse ....finale offer all of tristen's shoes and i will throu in her skirts as welll .......come on would you just love a cute little sea horsey ???????

[crispy]

....finale offer all of tristen's shoes and i will throu in her skirts as welll .......come on would you just love a cute little sea horsey ???????

if you send me all of Tristen's panties can I change my vote?

[Wendy me]

done deal girlfreind......rember a cute little sea horsey........

















http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6231/seahorsp5tp.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)




























http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/3811/imagewrap2ts.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Katie Ashe]

:think: Crispy convinced me. I'll vote for the Mo money strip. Which color pill was I suppost to take:nerves: ... the red or the blue?

[Tristen Cox]

if you send me all of Tristen's panties can I change my vote?
Screw you both alright! YOU'RE SO NOT GETTIN THEM, EFOD!

Red Katie, always red ;)

[Wendy me]

Screw you both alright! YOU'RE SO NOT GETTIN THEM, EFOD!

Red Katie, always red ;)


thats not nice....or is it????? vote sea horsey.......

[Tristen Cox]

Only if I can wear them as earings

[Wendy me]

Only if I can wear them as earings


done deal sea horse it is gives tristen the earings.......note tristen is now on the sea horsey side ....as it should be....

[Tristen Cox]

And my shoes and panties? *taps foot*

[Wendy me]

And my shoes and panties? *taps foot*


ok ok shoes and panties your probly going to want the dresses and make up back as well......told she would notice......

[StephanieCD]

Oh I'm so excited! I came back from work and it seems lots more people like my mobius strip idea! YAY!

I'm so excited I might start doing some more work on the site right now! :)

[Julie]

I've gone for the triangle with symbol, the triangle has through the years as a way of recognition (some good and some bad) and we should revive it for good.

Julie

[Paula Rae]

Hey Ladies,
My next skirt material. Guess what my vote was!
Ricki B

[Angela Burke]

Never a Mobius strip (or Mobius band) which has effectively only one side.
Such a symbol could never represent a crossdresser.
P.S.try making and cutting up Mobius bands out of paper the resulsts are truly fascinating, it seems to defy all logic.

Love Angela xx

[Rachel Ann]

Well, there are still 2 days to go but it looks like Möbius is running away with it. That’s fine with me - initially I also thought that it was good because several nice-looking renditions of it are commercially available, so nobody would have to do any involved work.

Then I took a closer look at http://www.ostlingbrooks.com/pages/moebius-group.html (http://www.ostlingbrooks.com/pages/moebius-group.html) and … SIX HUNDRED BUCKS?!? :eek: *gasp* *choke* *shudder*. So, I hope that one of us can figure out how to manage this without committing a trademark violation.



... remember when it was "news" that, oooooh, gay people wear an earring in their right ear!? It all starts somewhere... I think this is it.
Yes I remember - and if you weren't gay you could wear an earring in your left ear. Now it's ok for men to wear matching earrings - although many have jobs or family situations that won't permit that. (I do though - and I’m letting my hair grow long too - “because I can”.)



Never a Mobius strip ... Such a symbol could never represent a crossdresser.
Why not? The two sides - male and female - meet and become one!

[Wendy me]

can i say one thing ??????.....seahorse..................

[Tiffy]

Wendy my girl, you sure are persistent. :) But, I still like the mobious ring.

Kisses, April

[StephanieCD]

I'm looking for cheaper alternatives - I've found some GORGEOUS custom jewelry in a 1/2 twist mobius but most is expensive. I do know I've seen cheaper, sterling alternatives but I can't find them (YET!). There are some affordable earrings and stuff, though. I'm also trying to find a custom jeweller that will consider working with me on it... keep ya updated! :)

UPDATE: found these for $35 in sterling silver!
http://www.breakell.com/images/s_infinityband.jpg

I might get one for myself this week.

[Tristen Cox]

Typos drive your whut?! LoL! Nice price I can deal with $35

[StephanieCD]

...i sed tat i dunn lykie typoze... not thet i nava spills stuffs rong - bt whin i du i lyk 2 fixyt.

LOL

[Tristen Cox]

butz babee u kno wehn u typ lyk tat yur so sexzie

[StephanieCD]

Dunt teez my u purti betch :bunny:

[Tristen Cox]

nasteh :( can u pm me yur number? ;)

[Wendy me]

seahorse pendents are every were......seahorse...............ok thats it we will go with the seahorse.....done deal thank you all for playing along at home.........

[Lady Jayne]

Hi Wendy ......just wondering which symbol would you prefere?;) :D

[racquel]

Voted sea-horse but after following the discussion I am starting to think that the mobius may be the way to go.Can I change my vote?(don't tell Wendy) :o

[Sweet Jeanette]

I'm looking for cheaper alternatives - I've found some GORGEOUS custom jewelry in a 1/2 twist mobius but most is expensive. I do know I've seen cheaper, sterling alternatives but I can't find them (YET!). There are some affordable earrings and stuff, though. I'm also trying to find a custom jeweller that will consider working with me on it... keep ya updated! :)

UPDATE: found these for $35 in sterling silver!
http://www.breakell.com/images/s_infinityband.jpg

I might get one for myself this week.

I like this pic. It is shown differently. ---From the looks of the poll, this will be our pick. I liked the gold one shown much earlier. It looked richly golden, and touched my fancy, but Im sure that it might be horribly expensive! ---But, sterling will work too. Much more in my price range, I am sure. ---Maybe, if the Mobuis is picked, you might tell me where I might get one for a reasonable price?---------Thanks,----"Hot". :)

[~Tammy~]

I have been looking through all the posts for the symbols but cannot find a picture of the ying yang which has been suggested. Is this the 2 piece ying yang or the 3 piece lilke below?

A while ago I thought the 3 piece ying yang was an ideal symol, as it show 3 things in unity. For example, male, female and transgender.

The silver one in the picture could be used as a pendant and is not obviously a symbol for transgender. Plus I think it looks great!

[Wendy me]

Voted sea-horse but after following the discussion I am starting to think that the mobius may be the way to go.Can I change my vote?(don't tell Wendy) :o
i heard that no changeing your vote... oh how thay turn.....sea horse .......

[Wendy me]

I like this pic. It is shown differently. ---From the looks of the poll, this will be our pick. I liked the gold one shown much earlier. It looked richly golden, and touched my fancy, but Im sure that it might be horribly expensive! ---But, sterling will work too. Much more in my price range, I am sure. ---Maybe, if the Mobuis is picked, you might tell me where I might get one for a reasonable price?---------Thanks,----"Hot". :)
sea horse cute and not overly expencive and it dosen't change every outher day .....

[StephanieCD]

http://www.nahoku.com/NaHoku/resources/D2003122208521948280.jpg
This sea horse costs $1,359 - there are cost variations of all of our symbols ;)


The different images I've shown are all mobius strips - nothing changed. You like gold get a gold one. You like silver get silver. You like pink get pink. You like seahorses get a seahorse pendant. The whole idea is that it's a circle with one half twist - there doesn't have to be an "official" ring that we all have to wear or something! I'll probably get a paperweight - maybe an emblem for my car. But I'm personally definitely getting the silver ring - I can afford that one.

[Tiffy]

The seahorse is nice. But kinda hard to wear discretely unless it is on your chain. But, I am not willing to take what is on my chain off to put the seahorse on. The mobious ring I can wear on my finger. But for thoes who do not want to wear it as a ring it could be worn on a chain, or as a toe ring, or even made as a pin. I just think that more can be done with the mobious ring than the seahorse. So I guess you know how I still vote.

April

[Anita]

I usualy find Wendy a good guide on these things But cannot find anything she has posted showing me how to vote
So just to be safe I will vote Mobihorse
Is that right Wendy ?

[Wendy me]

I usualy find Wendy a good guide on these things But cannot find anything she has posted showing me how to vote
So just to be safe I will vote Mobihorse
Is that right Wendy ?


you know anita if i did not know you were just haveing fun with this......
of corse anita wants the sea horse.........

[Anita]

SHES RIGHT IVOTHE THE SEAMOBI :rolleyes:

[Wendy me]

all i know is sea horse comes up here a lot ....could be our winner.........

[Rachel Ann]

A while ago I thought the 3 piece ying yang was an ideal symol, as it show 3 things in unity. For example, male, female and transgender.

The silver one in the picture could be used as a pendant and is not obviously a symbol for transgender. Plus I think it looks great!
Had I seen the silver one earlier I might have been very drawn to it. However, it is too complicated a design to reduce too ring size, and I don't wear pendants in boy mode.

[Julie]

can i say one thing ??????.....seahorse..................

Geez Wendy, will you just make up your mind!

[Julie]

all i know is sea horse comes up here a lot ....could be our winner.........

I've got one! A seahorse!

[StephanieCD]

Oooh - this one's only $33 - I might like this one better :)http://www.ka-gold-jewelry.com/images/products/mobius-ring/mobius-ring_silver.jpg

[Rachel Ann]

Win - Möbius strip (Stephanie CD)

Place – Seahorse (Celeste)

Show - triangle w/modified m/f signs (Tristen), by a nose


And with that, I curtsy to Stephanie, step aside, and leave control of this to her. :thumbsup:

My personal opinions:


An excellent choice. Thanks for voting, everybody.


It doesn’t have to be a ring, but that works best en drab for most. Anyone who wants to wear a pendant or pin instead is free to do so, but let’s not expect Stephanie to research anything beyond the rings. If it gets to the point where someone wants her to find Möbius panties-on-the-head, that’s too much to ask.


I like the $35 version lots better than the $33 one. In the latter, it’s hard to see the Möbius twist as such.


I'll bet that there’s something in gold that’s cheaper than what we saw before.
Remember, nobody has to do this. But I will.


Rachel xx

[Julie]

This link mentions that there might have been a burgundy triangle for us but it can't be verified.

http://www.lambda.org/symbols.htm (http://www.lambda.org/symbols.htm)

Julie

[Julie York]

Mobius panties?

That could work. Turn one leg of your underpants inside out. You'd be able to recognise a CD in the changing rooms!

Genius!

(You'd also be able to recognise them because of a strangulated testicle hernia.)

[Tristen Cox]

Mobius panties?

That could work. Turn one leg of your underpants inside out. You'd be able to recognise a CD in the changing rooms!

Genius!

(You'd also be able to recognise them because of a strangulated testicle hernia.)
That could work for bras too come to think of it. "Look hunny a crossdresser!" :lol:

[StephanieCD]

Burgundy Triangle

It is rumored that there was a burgundy triangle which designated transgendered prisoners, but so for this is only a rumor and has not been substantiated with facts.

I, personally, don't feel that transgendered necessarily encompasses the whole of crossdressing. I, for example, am content being a guy and just enjoy dressing for whatever reason. I think the whole thing started on here because we as crossdressers don't really have a symbol....

Also - many of the common symbols you see like the rainbow and the triangles and such are symbols of PRIDE - to be worn when one is out and proud. Our particular situation is that we need a symbol of, for lack of a better word, shame... to display in DISGUISE. To blend in. To only be seen by those looking. The nature of the crossdresser, is that of hiding...

For now!

So, is this little poll thing to say that a majority of people like my symbol idea and that I should continue forward with it? I intend on compiling links to various mobius products online - though I'd very much like to find a jeweller willing to make us custom ones. Anyone with any connections?

I also want to put links to REPUTABLE studies and FACTS on the website... anyone know of any proven data/studies?

Ok - enough of me :)

If you agree and feel that the Mobius Strip is a suitable symbol for the crossdresser I encourage you to go purchase them and display them anyway you see fit. Over the next few weeks (hopefully) I will put together a prototype website and let you all see! :)

EDIT - I also encourage those of you who like seahorses and butterflies and such to do as YOU feel represents you! (I have a butterfly tattoo - I got it because it represents transformation from ugliness to beauty... got it a long time ago) This whole symbol idea is just for us to start SOME kind of general agreement so maybe we can someday make a dent in this culture that's so against us! Not to take away from our individuality :bunny:

[Rachel Ann]

I, personally, don't feel that transgendered necessarily encompasses the whole of crossdressing. I, for example, am content being a guy and just enjoy dressing for whatever reason. I think the whole thing started on here because we as crossdressers don't really have a symbol ...
Thank you! That is SO true, and does cause some confusion. CD and TG are "intersection sets".

Rachel

[StephanieCD]

Yes Ma'am.

The public needs to be educated - not confused ;)

[Sweet Jeanette]

I think the whole thing started on here because we as crossdressers don't really have a symbol....

Our particular situation is that we need a symbol of, for lack of a better word, shame... to display in DISGUISE. To blend in. To only be seen by those looking. The nature of the crossdresser, is that of hiding...

For now!



If you agree and feel that the Mobius Strip is a suitable symbol for the crossdresser I encourage you to go purchase them and display them anyway you see fit.

EDIT - I also encourage those of you who like seahorses and butterflies and such to do as YOU feel represents you! This whole symbol idea is just for us to start SOME kind of general agreement so maybe we can someday make a dent in this culture that's so against us!:bunny:

Stephenie, you have said it better, than I, and---maybe Any of us could have said it! -----"Shame", is a word only ---"those others" use for us. I do not feel that way when I dress. I am just so sad and sorry at times, that I can't show what I like, and how I feel, ( this way), to other people!---I am sorry that "they", don't have the capability to understand, or accept us. ---In 300 years, this may happen. Who knows! -------------As for your edit, ----I am going to wear a ring, on my right small finger, along with the one nail being painted a pretty pink color I have selected.---I liked, and voted for the ladybug and the butterfly, but your Mobuis ring -"Tells the story"! ----I think I will have one made for me in "Rich" looking Gold for me. ---All this is very important to me, as you said earlier. ----We NEED some kind of symbol!

[Rachel Ann]

Our particular situation is that we need a symbol of, for lack of a better word, shame... to display in DISGUISE. To blend in. To only be seen by those looking. The nature of the crossdresser, is that of hiding ...
For now!
I don't feel ashamed, just marginalized. The only people more marginalized than we are are the FTMs. I'm going to get a Möbius ring 'cause I can wear it all the time without busting myself.



I also want to put links to REPUTABLE studies and FACTS on the website... anyone know of any proven data/studies?
A good place to start is with Karl Jung's "Anima" theory. Basically, he said that every boy is born with a girl inside (the "Anima"), and every girl is born with a boy inside (the "Animus"). Most have that pounded out of them at a very early age, but some of us have inner girls who are just to feisty to be silenced!

Anyway, Jung's reputation is immense, and nobody has ever challenged him on this. Btw, his wife Emma did some important writing on the subject as well.

See http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/anima.htm for openers.



Over the next few weeks (hopefully) I will put together a prototype website and let you all see! :)
I'll keep an eye on your links!

Rachel xx