Seeking an objective opinion

[Ashley Williams]

I would be interested know how many girls on this site have gone to outsiders to get an opinion.

When my wife and I first started fighting over whether my need to wear female underwear was selfish indulgence or a deep-down compulsion I wrote to a national columnist here in the UK.

I did not tell my wife - but the instant she read the published response - she knew who the author of the query was!

I suppose I should be flattered that she recognised me, but more seriously, the article was very level-headed and, I thought, fair.

My wife and I are still fighting in principle, but in practice I am back to dressing in secret. It cannot last, and eventually one of us will be forced to make a crucial decision.

Here is the article that was printed.

See what you think ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/feb/17/familyandrelationships

If you cannot open the link it could possibly be due to copyright restrictions.
If it is of interest and you want to read it but can't I'd be happy to send it as an attachment to an email.

[Shikyo]

Yes, I have. Not totally voluntary but as something that is required for me to do to get my diagnose of my transsexuality. It's true that I didn't seek it out myself for the enjoyment of getting some objective opinions about this matter. However, as I'm already doing it I would be stupid not to use it for my advantage and use the therapist as a source for objective opinion about my issue. Not only for opinions but also for some information and anything else that I might need but not able to get it solved out myself.

Now as I have been going to the therapist few times I'm starting to enjoy it and learning how big of an advantage it is for me. Especially as it is free for me I really do not see a reason why I should go there as often as possible instead of just getting the piece of paper I originally desired. I don't really want to admit but I have learned something about myself by going there.

[Karren H]

I just go to the mall or a casino... No one objected so I put that in the positive feedback column! :).

[Ras]

to me the columnist is a bit closed minded and expressing her opinion not necessarily that of everyone. Bottom line you and you r wife need to come to terms with your dressing and figure out what is acceptable for both sides. Other wise there will be on going turmoil.

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Paula,

I totally understand the position that you are in as I am there myself. My wife has known about my dressing for years, ever since she was looking through my wallet and discovered a receipt for some lingerie. Rather than lie to her, or have her think that I was seeing someone else, I told the truth and admitted that the items were for me. That was many years ago and things remained low key until recently. Within the last year, while attending a session with a marriage counselor, I was asked by her if I still dressed and if I went out of the house dressed, I replied that I did.

This led to several days of outbursts and scenes and her insistence that I go for individual counseling and immediately stop going out of the house. I have been gong to my therapist for almost a year now and have made wonderful progress. The only problem is that the progress is not exactly what she had thought it would be. Instead of the therapist 'fixing' me and making me stop dressing, he has decided that I am evolving into Nicole and away from my male self. He has helped me realize that I would much rather be Nicole full time then have to switch back and forth between roles.

I can understand my wife's position that she married a man and not a woman, but nothing is forever and things change. Both my therapist and I have tried to talk with her and reason with her but she is insistent that it has to be her way and nothing else will do. We are getting very near the point where we will no longer be together due to he demands and lack of understanding. I do not know how strong your desires are, nor what your feelings are, these things you need to decide for yourself. I have tried tirelessly to find a way to resolve our situation and maintain our marriage, but alas this my not work out.

You hope that your relationship is strong enough to carry you over the bumps in the road, and that it consists of equal parts of give and take. The problem that I face is that I do all the giving and she does all the taking. This may wind up being the way this relationship ends, with her taking. I think I am done with giving.

Nicole

[mklinden2010]

Since I started out with this very young, I suppose you could say I've gone to every available source for an opinion. I haven't written to newspapers, but I have asked everyone, and, every source - in one way or another - what they think of, "This or that."

What I've found out is that, in general, most people care more about their business than anybody's... If they care more about my business than theirs, usually that is THE problem we wind up dealing with... What I like to hear is, "Whatever, pal. I was thinking of getting the cheeseburger."

The respondent in the Guardian, by the way, covered a lot of ground for you there - even throwing in the difficulties of living with a rock collector or sports nut. "Verily, it is always something."

This something is like those other somethings - you have to do it your way and they have to tell you how they feel about it. You have to listen, but you don't have to do everything they want. Nor do they have to put up with everything you do. Life should be fair....

If you're good at working with those other somethings, you'll most likely work this out where you are BOTH happier.

She'd like that. So would you.

You didn't ask me, as "a" source, but it has been done many times before.

[tricia_uktv]

Paula, it won't go away, in fact the desire will become stronger and stronger. So I think you have to tell that it has come back and agree to compromise. The answer may lie in you both agreeing that you can do this away from her. I think trans-essex is in your area which may be able to help. The danger in that is that for some (me) the more you do it, the more you want to do it and the more dangerously you live. However I would say give that a go and at least you will know a little more about what you want. Good luck, but have fun.

[PetiteDuality]

I think the columnist was very honest. Acceptance cannot be forced. If something doesn't attracts you, it just doesn't attract you.

Your wife's perception about you might have changed forever. It doesn't mean that she is not open minded or that she doesn't love you anymore.

Even if a person accepts crossdressing and have crossdressers friends, it doesn't mean that the would have married one.

We are masters of our lives, and we should be brave enough to live with the consequences of our actions.

They might not be liked by everyone, but they are still our actions and choices.

[Ashley Williams]

I can understand my wife's position that she married a man and not a woman, but nothing is forever and things change. Both my therapist and I have tried to talk with her and reason with her but she is insistent that it has to be her way and nothing else will do. We are getting very near the point where we will no longer be together due to he demands and lack of understanding. I do not know how strong your desires are, nor what your feelings are, these things you need to decide for yourself. I have tried tirelessly to find a way to resolve our situation and maintain our marriage, but alas this my not work out.

You hope that your relationship is strong enough to carry you over the bumps in the road, and that it consists of equal parts of give and take. The problem that I face is that I do all the giving and she does all the taking. This may wind up being the way this relationship ends, with her taking. I think I am done with giving.

Nicole

Hmm.

Our positions are remarkably similar. I know many people who respond say they understand - but your really do!

Growth and development is such a two-edged thing. I went through it in my mid 20s when I decided to return to college and study to fulfil a potential that had not previously been realised. The relationship I was in at that time could not bear the strain of me changing.

In this case there is little difference, conceptually. I am feeling more comfortable with how I dress as the weeks go by - because I don't have to explain, I don't have to justify. It truly feels like a renewal of me, now incorporating for the first time all the experience I have accumulated over the years. I am now double the age I was when I faced the challenge of going back into education - and I am slightly embarassed to say I am having twice (at least) the fun.

I don't want to leave my wife with unfulfilled dreams, but then I cannot go back into the shell I fitted into in order to stay how she imagined I should be.

We have so many duties, and calls on our energy and emotions - but unless we are true to ourselves - of what worth is that in the end.

The Irish have a very pithy proverb that goes something like ...

'Beware of what you pray for.'

Couldn't put it better myself!

[sherri52]

My second wife and I went to her councilor against my wishes. When the councilor tended to side with me my wife stopped going (we both stopped going). I still was divorced. Hope you fair better

[Nicole Brown]

Hmm.

Our positions are remarkably similar. I know many people who respond say they understand - but your really do!

Growth and development is such a two-edged thing. I went through it in my mid 20s when I decided to return to college and study to fulfil a potential that had not previously been realised. The relationship I was in at that time could not bear the strain of me changing.

In this case there is little difference, conceptually. I am feeling more comfortable with how I dress as the weeks go by - because I don't have to explain, I don't have to justify. It truly feels like a renewal of me, now incorporating for the first time all the experience I have accumulated over the years. I am now double the age I was when I faced the challenge of going back into education - and I am slightly embarassed to say I am having twice (at least) the fun.

I don't want to leave my wife with unfulfilled dreams, but then I cannot go back into the shell I fitted into in order to stay how she imagined I should be.

We have so many duties, and calls on our energy and emotions - but unless we are true to ourselves - of what worth is that in the end.

The Irish have a very pithy proverb that goes something like ...

'Beware of what you pray for.'

Couldn't put it better myself!

Hi Paula,

And here in the states we simply say "Be careful what you ask for".

I am sorry to hear the we are so similar in our situations, I wouldn't wish mine on my worst enemy. I had a session with my therapist last night and due to a business commitment I attended the session in drab for the first time in over 8 months. My therapist said that he was having trouble talking with me in my short hair, pants and no makeup. He kept saying that my tone of voice, my mannerisms and my body language didn't match my appearance.

He said the he heard Nicole and sensed Nicole but didn't see Nicole. I felt quite uncomfortable myself as I sat there with my legs crossed at the knees, my hands folded in my lap and talking in my Nicole voice. I must have looked like a real sight.

Well, we decided that I am much more comfortable and much happier when I am presenting as Nicole and therein lies the crux of my wife's and my problem. She either cannot or will not accept me as I am. She is getting into a state of total chaos as she is beginning to realize that she cannot control the situation and that she is about to become single again. Oh, by the way, she has never lived on her own before. I really feel sorry for her, but I have to think of myself.

And that is exactly what you have to do Paula, think of your self and do what is right for you. Good luck as you move forward.

Hugs, Nicole

[Ashley Williams]

I think the columnist was very honest. Acceptance cannot be forced. If something doesn't attracts you, it just doesn't attract you.

Your wife's perception about you might have changed forever. It doesn't mean that she is not open minded or that she doesn't love you anymore.

Even if a person accepts crossdressing and have crossdressers friends, it doesn't mean that the would have married one.

We are masters of our lives, and we should be brave enough to live with the consequences of our actions.

They might not be liked by everyone, but they are still our actions and choices.

Oh Petite - I think you have also 'hit the nail on the head' as we say. The irony of it is that my marriage had, I thought, become much more than something dependant on physical attaction. I suppose that if it wasn't underpinned by that, though, it would just be a friendship - and I know she won't settle for that (at the moment, at least!)

You remind me also, quite correctly, that our actions and the consequences of them are what we have to deal with - but it does make me feel so sad. I hate the idea of undoing all that happiness and replacing it with the sadness I hear in her voice.

Of course she is not going to make it any easier than it needs to be - and there is an element of it that is a reaction to her not being in control - but it is still so hard!


Hi Paula,

Well, we decided that I am much more comfortable and much happier when I am presenting as Nicole and therein lies the crux of my wife's and my problem. She either cannot or will not accept me as I am. She is getting into a state of total chaos as she is beginning to realize that she cannot control the situation and that she is about to become single again. Oh, by the way, she has never lived on her own before. I really feel sorry for her, but I have to think of myself.

And that is exactly what you have to do Paula, think of your self and do what is right for you. Good luck as you move forward.

Hugs, Nicole

Thanks again, Nicole

So much of what you say rings bells. Alarm bells! The choices are so stark!

However, as Petite said, it is quite possible that my wife's view of me is changed forever, now and we are fatally flawed as a marriage.

Still seems incredibly sad - and whatever way I look at it - this ball is in my court now.

...

Thanks for your kind wishes.


Paula, it won't go away, in fact the desire will become stronger and stronger. So I think you have to tell that it has come back and agree to compromise. The answer may lie in you both agreeing that you can do this away from her. I think trans-essex is in your area which may be able to help. The danger in that is that for some (me) the more you do it, the more you want to do it and the more dangerously you live. However I would say give that a go and at least you will know a little more about what you want. Good luck, but have fun.

Well, Tricia, I am certainly having fun! In that respect things have worked out really well - because I am living in Essex at the weekends, now, but working in Norwich. Trans-essex is therefore out of the question for the time being, but there is a twice-a-month group in Norwich and a new monthly session being inaugurated tomorrow, also in the city.

So ... while I'm away ... not sure where the cat goes in that scenario.

Anyway - thanks for the supportive post - and yes, your'e right - my need to dress is increasing to fit the time available. I even went and just sat, dressed, in the pub where the group meet last night. A bit of a palaver to get all dressed up to sit on your own for a couple of hours - but its breaking new ground all the time.

[Sarah_GG]

Hi Paula - I remember reading that before I knew about my SO and then later, when I suspected my SO was a CDer, found it again online in my research.

From an accepting GG SOs perspective, it can be difficult to keep up. And sometimes, quite often it seems, the objective of the dressing changes to become all encompassing. The married man decides he now wants to present as a woman more regularly than not and sometimes even experience other things outside the marriage. This is not necessarily the fault of the CDer, as others have said in this thread, the urge to dress grows exponentially and in a previously unforeseen way.

Together many couples can overcome the difficulties that having a TG or TS husband presents, but not every couple can. If communication is easy and a freeflow of information back and forth between a couple persists, then I think just about anything can be overcome... even if it's inevitably allowing each other to move on to pursue other avenues.

[Sheila]

Paula tough as what I am going to say, it is meant with your and your wifes best interests at heart ............ it matters not what outsider say or think, at the end of the day this is something that you two have to sort out for yourselves. If I was in your wifes shoes I think I would feel as if you were trying to pressurize me into acceptance, and rightly or wrongly would thus dig my heels in, .... cause I can be a contrary Blighter (in case nobody had noticed :heehee::heehee:)

It does not matter whether the article was fair or biased to one or other of the parties, only you two can sort out between you what needs to be done for your relationship, I wish you both well in coming to a decision that means you can continue on as a couple and continue to grow with each other :hugs:

[Jilmac]

Paula, I too had a wife who could not abide by my dressing. I had told her about it shortly after we started dating because I didn't want to keep secrets from her. Her only brother was gay and also did drag and she had convinced herself that my dressing would somehow "turn me gay". I remained in the closet for our entire marriage of 26 years.

To answer your question, I had consulted counsellors because for many years I believed I was alone in my desire to crossdress. I was never satisfied enough with the results of counselling but never contacted any other outside source. I made promises to myself that the dressing would stop (I purged numerous times) but it never did.

In the States there used to be two nationally syndicated columnists (who were also twin sisters) who went by pseudonyms, Ann Landers, and Abigail Van Buren, (Dear Abby). They both had written answers to people who had enquired about support groups for people like us. One particular enquiry was from a person from Kansas who told about his history of crossdressing, coming clean to his wife while they were dating, his wife's disapproval, his promises and purges, and that he remained in the closet throughout his life of dressing.

That could have been my story verbatim, so I clipped the article and kept it in a secret file (along with my female clothes) for many years until my wife caught me completely dressed in the basement of our house and was repulsed by what she saw. It was then, that I showed her the article from Ann Landers but instead of easing her mind, she would lay a guilt trip on me every time I ventured into the basement.

Despite my dressing and my wife's disapproval, we stayed married until breast cancer took her from me in 2007. I am currently dating a woman whom I told about my dressing and she has been supportive, although she has no desire to see me dressed. The article clipped form the newapaper is long gone but I gained much insight from the information it provided.

From reading your enquiry and the answer given, I'm hoping that your wife can better understand that there is a need in all of us which never goes away. Your dressing will always be a part of the whole you and you will still be the man she chose to marry. I hope you can find some common ground that will help keep your marriage in tact.

[Jamie VieJolie]

If she really loves you she'll be willing to talk, reason and come to some sort of agreement.

If she can't accept you dressed then you have to both agree that you have a right to some femme time when she is not around. Maybe you'll have to go to a hotel. Either way you can have your clothes and not have to hide them or be secretive.

Quitting is an unrealistic option. You may be able to do it for years but odds are you'll get back into sooner or later.

If she is completely unwilling to accept your crossdressing in any way shape or form then you'll probably have to move on. She isn't just rejecting the dressing. She's rejecting you. If she really loves you she'll understand that she'll have to make a compromise. If you love her you'll realize that you'll need to do the same.

Marriage is not "my way or the highway." Marriage is compromise.

Good luck

[KayC]

I agree with Ras. I also understand that she married a man, not a woman, but CDing doesn't mean you aren't a man. I'd try to get her to come here and apply to the FAB section where she can get some true answers rather than proceeding with her preconceived notions that are likely inaccurate. We'll treat her with regard and understanding and quite possibly help her to see through a broadened perspective.

The answer doesn't lie in denying who you are, the answer is more aptly discovered as the two of you embark on a journey together to be loving and mutually respectful of one another's well being. Life is a process and we can't always know the answers in the beginning...it is hard to let someone know something you haven't yet come to terms with yourself, and I'm sorry if that upsets some people's apple cart, but that's just how life is. Marriage just isn't as neat and simple as all that...sometimes we have to grow and change and adjust and compromise and accept...just as you'd have to if she changed, so she needs to try and accept this part of you that she wasn't aware of in the beginning. It doesn't make you bad, if anything, perhaps it makes you interesting! (never a dull moment!) :love:

[Ashley Williams]

Paula tough as what I am going to say, it is meant with your and your wifes best interests at heart ... it matters not what outsider say or think, at the end of the day this is something that you two have to sort out for yourselves. If I was in your wifes shoes I think I would feel as if you were trying to pressurize me into acceptance ... I wish you both well in coming to a decision that means you can continue on as a couple and continue to grow with each other :hugs:

Well, Sheila - its all tough at the moment - but the good news is that we are talking again. After the most tense of weekends last time, to a (sort of) cards on the table this time - a sign that we might just be starting to move forward together again.

Nothing conclusive, and still lots of hurt, but a dialogue. Pressure? I don't think so - but if my wife now joins the forum, which is a remote possibility for the first time - she may well be able to answer for herself!

Here's hoping!


If she really loves you she'll be willing to talk, reason and come to some sort of agreement.

Quitting is an unrealistic option. You may be able to do it for years but odds are you'll get back into sooner or later.

Marriage is not "my way or the highway." Marriage is compromise.

Good luck

Thank you! Yes - she really does love me - as I do her!

Evidence - we are talking again - despite my being the one who has found it difficult to know what to say, of late.

We are now looking for that essential compromise. 'We!'


I also understand that she married a man, not a woman, but CDing doesn't mean you aren't a man. I'd try to get her to come here and apply to the FAB section where she can get some true answers rather than proceeding with her preconceived notions that are likely inaccurate. We'll treat her with regard and understanding and quite possibly help her to see through a broadened perspective.

The answer doesn't lie in denying who you are, the answer is more aptly discovered as the two of you embark on a journey together to be loving and mutually respectful of one another's well being. :love:

Yes - and I am still not just a man - but the same man, essentially, that she married. We had a really important 'cards on the table' today for probably the first time (my fault as much as anything) - but we are talking - and there might even soon be a new FAB member introducing herself. I really, really hope so!