A little twist to an old question.

[madison lee]

Here is an intersting twist.(At least to me) I am not going to ask why we crossdress, but rather why dont more men crossdress? Why don't more men explore their feminine side? I know that there really isnt a right answer out there because most men you couldnt ask this question of but also because most of them either wouldnt answer you or would become violent. Its just a fun question to see what everyone else thinks.

[docrobbysherry]

I DID see a couple of CDs BEFORE I became one!

Here's what I would say, " Why would anyone want to be a homely woman, when they can be at least a decent looking man?":eek:

I know! I was COMPLETELY clueless! :doh:

But, aren't MOST men?:heehee:

[Southern Jenni]

I think it's hard wired going way way back. If you think about what kids are "allowed" to play with and do. Girls can do anything. They can play with boy toys and play sports and their Dad's are just as proud as if they do gymnastics (probably moreso.) A tom-boy girl is completely accepted. A girl can wear a football jersey to a game and no one cares, but a boy in a cheerleader outfit! Look out! Boys who play with Barbies or want to play princess dress up with their sisters are immediately reprimanded and it's never even spoken of again... They're just told DON'T DO THAT, and that's it, no explanation. It's so basic in our upbringing it's like learning to walk and talk. We get that training early and it carries through the rest of our lives. It's the same reason it's so hard for us to go out dressed, or tell our wives. Honestly, it's not that dangerous to go out dressed to a store in the middle of the day. A few stares, maybe a giggle behind our back, but it's not like we get attacked and stoned at the grocery store for wearing a dress. It's because we've all been taught so thoroughly that men aren't supposed to be feminine. I think honest men would say the reason they would never crossdress has nothing to do with themselves, but with society.

The really really sad thing is, I would raise a son the same way. I might not be as aggressively opposed to things like playing with girl toys, but I'd definitely steer him clear of wearing girls clothes or showing a feminine side in public. Mainly for his own good. I would want to protect him from it. It's so sad, but life is complicated that way I guess.

[MelanieCA]

I wonder if the number is higher than you might think.

For instance, the other day I went drinking with a bunch of guys, wearing my silky panties under my pants. None of them had any clue. But then I was thinking, I wonder how many of them were doing the same. Really there's no way to know.

[madison lee]

Good answer and congrats on trying on girly clothes at target.

[Jeannie]

Maybe it's way to much testosterone.

Jeannie

[madison lee]

I think it's hard wired going way way back. If you think about what kids are "allowed" to play with and do. Girls can do anything. They can play with boy toys and play sports and their Dad's are just as proud as if they do gymnastics (probably moreso.) A tom-boy girl is completely accepted. A girl can wear a football jersey to a game and no one cares, but a boy in a cheerleader outfit! Look out! Boys who play with Barbies or want to play princess dress up with their sisters are immediately reprimanded and it's never even spoken of again... They're just told DON'T DO THAT, and that's it, no explanation. It's so basic in our upbringing it's like learning to walk and talk. We get that training early and it carries through the rest of our lives. It's the same reason it's so hard for us to go out dressed, or tell our wives. Honestly, it's not that dangerous to go out dressed to a store in the middle of the day. A few stares, maybe a giggle behind our back, but it's not like we get attacked and stoned at the grocery store for wearing a dress. It's because we've all been taught so thoroughly that men aren't supposed to be feminine. I think honest men would say the reason they would never crossdress has nothing to do with themselves, but with society.

The really really sad thing is, I would raise a son the same way. I might not be as aggressively opposed to things like playing with girl toys, but I'd definitely steer him clear of wearing girls clothes or showing a feminine side in public. Mainly for his own good. I would want to protect him from it. It's so sad, but life is complicated that way I guess.




But would you teach him that its ok when he's at home to dress as he wishes?

[Southern Jenni]

But would you teach him that its ok when he's at home to dress as he wishes?

I would be the most understanding of Dad's if I had a son who expressed a need/desire to dress in any unconventional way. I guess my point is, I wouldn't go out of my way to push him toward it and as a young child I would teach him to interact within societal norms (even at home) for the his own psychological good. Knowing what a minefield this lifestyle is, I'd want to make sure I wasn't the one that "caused" anything that would make his adult life more complicated and harder to deal with. God knows life's hard enough anyway.

[trannie T]

This thread asks, "Why aren't there more crossdressers?" This is another way of asking, "Why are we crossdressers?" The answer, of course is, "We don't know."

[Chiana]

I was fascintated observing people that were hanging around a photo-booth at a wedding reception recently. The photo-booth people supplied a whole lot of different props for folks going into the booth. Such as wigs, feather boas, bunny ears, princess crowns, gangster outfits and machine guns (plastic), fake beards, top hats, etc. it was really fascinating to see the gender bending going on when it is a situation where it is open season so to speak and no one cares. You could easily pick up on certain trends. At one point a young family arrived with 2 young boys. One boy immediately went for everything pink or glamerous. The other boy, however went for all the gangster/macho stuff. The mom tried to put a wig on the macho boy and he slung it across the room. While the other boy was happily swirling around wearing a blond wig and a pink boa. I am no psychiatrist but I think each boy was doing exactly what he wanted. I think it is just how we are wired at birth.

[madison lee]

Southern Jenni, Jayne, Melanie and Jeanie seem to know where I am going with this. Thanks girls.

[sherri52]

They are taught that it is wrong. Boys are boys and girls are girls. They fear the peer presure around them and the ramifications that it brings.

[madison lee]

Thanks Sherri52...thats right where I was going with this thread.

[Chiana]

Thanks Sherri52...thats right where I was going with this thread.

Madison, I understand the peer pressure notion. But are you saying that you think that peer pressure is the reason why most males don't try crossdressing? Peer pressure has nothing to do with what you do in the privacy of your own home when you are by yourself. I do think that there are a lot more CD's than we will ever know about. And I am sure that some guys suppress the urge all their lives. But I believe that a lot of guys just have no desire to try it. And that feeling comes from inside them and they would probably not be able to really explain it. But maybe I am missing your point here.

[Melinda G]

I think there are a lot more crossdressers than we think. Then are a lot more men who think about it, but can't bring themselves to actually do it, for whatever reasons. Probably not too sure of the masculinity.:D

[madison lee]

In answer to Chiana:

Really? If not for "peer pressure" would we have as much trouble going out fully dressed? I think that peer pressure plays a bigger role in society than what people think it does.

[Karren H]

Maybe it's way to much testosterone.

Jeannie

I have a pitutary gland problem and when I don't take my meds.. My testosterone production is superssed and my urge to crossdress completely goes away! Figure that one put..

[docrobbysherry]

I have a pitutary gland problem and when I don't take my meds.. My testosterone production is superssed and my urge to crossdress completely goes away! Figure that one put..

Must be "peer pressure", Karren!?:heehee:

See where I'm GOING WITH THIS?:brolleyes:

[meri]

I believe it's because women are considered 2nd class citizens by many men and oddly enough, many women. I am sure you are all aware of the self-esteem issues many women grapple with, it is probably related.

So, following that line of reasoning, why would any male "lower" themselves to the status of a 2nd class citizen?

Women, on the other hand, seem to be happy and encouraged to adopt and get into all things male... Jeans, drab colors, football (it's great when the wife is willing to sit down and watch it with her guy), etc.. The general attitude is they are elevating themselves by doing this.

Clearly this attitude is on the decline, but it is still very prevalent. One only has to read history to see what 2nd class citizenship has brought women over the years.

I grew up in a small, blue-collar town. That was the prevailing attitude there (probably still is -- I left). I can still find traces of those kind of thought patterns in my own mind, but I can quickly overrule any associated negative behavior I might be about to exhibit before it gets out of the box. Given my (and your) interests, a more balanced attitude toward women should be no surprise....

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Here is an intersting twist.(At least to me) I am not going to ask why we crossdress, but rather why dont more men crossdress? Why don't more men explore their feminine side?

Because most men's gender identity matches their physical anatomy.

[CindyLouWho]

Madison,

I believe there are a lot more of us than you think.

Sometimes, when I consider large but unknown numbers, I use the Tip of the Iceberg Rule or 10 percent rule which supposes that whatever you observe constitutes only 10 % of the actual numbers. So let's play a little numbers game. The Members List for this forum lists 14,146 entries, if you multiply that by 10 you come up with over 140,000 of us. I think this a ridiculously low number considering that there are about 150 million males of all ages in the U.S. alone. So, of 150 million males if only 10% cross dress, that means there about 15 million of us. Now, I think that number is ridiculously high, but there are self proclaimed 'experts' who say that there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. So who's to say? Now, just one more round in my numbers game. If you take the previously mentioned 15 million males and take 10 percent, you have 1.5 million American males who cross dress. While this is a only 1% of U.S. males it is hardly a small number, and I think it's a fairly credible approximation.

Wow! I just thought of something else. There's a show on Discovery Channel called "Dirty Jobs" and in two different episodes, random guys doing manly jobs were caught cross dressing. One was wearing a red womens thong and one had his toe nails painted purple. Now 2 out of 160 episodes works out to about 1.9 % and if you apply the Tip of the Iceberg Rule to that, maybe 15 million crossdressing U.S. males isn't so incredible!

Anyway, there are a lot more of us than you think!

[madison lee]

See docrobbysherry , this is what I'm trying explore. I think that a lot of men want to, but cant admit it to themselves. Society teaches men " You will drink beer, you will watch football, you will crush any part of your brain that hints at anything remotely feminine about yourself, you are a MAN, so act like one." A lot of the members on here didnt start crossdressing for years, some not until in their 50's and 60's. From what they said in other posts its not something they did when they were younger. I think its hard wired in every one to be half and half. I think that we as crossdressers are actually closer to this than the rest of society. Most of society demands that men be men and women be women, no in betweens and if you act slightly feminine you must be gay. Now the members on this forum and other cd's, ts's, tg's out there know this is far from the truth, but SOCIETY believes that it is.

Chiana makes a good point, where she says,
"The photo-booth people supplied a whole lot of different props for folks going into the booth. Such as wigs, feather boas, bunny ears, princess crowns, gangster outfits and machine guns (plastic), fake beards, top hats, etc. it was really fascinating to see the gender bending going on when it is a situation where it is open season so to speak and no one cares. You could easily pick up on certain trends."
I think that Society is starting to change, to loosen up if you will, on what is viwed as normal and abnormal. What I am trying to do with this post is to get everyones thoughts and ideas on why there arent more men who crossdress. I believe, and by some of your answers you do too, that there are a lot more than what we have guessed at. Some researchers have put the ratio at 10% of the population. I think that it is far, far higher than that. MY personal guess, from reading the posts on this and myriad other forums, would be around 35-40%.

I thank everyone who has replied to this post and I respect each and every one of your opinions and belief.

[Jamie001]

It is unfortunate that you would raise a son in the manner that you describe. The only way to change things is to discourage these useless stereotypes. Your comment is the reason that change does not occur for males in this society.

:rolleyes:


I think it's hard wired going way way back. If you think about what kids are "allowed" to play with and do. Girls can do anything. They can play with boy toys and play sports and their Dad's are just as proud as if they do gymnastics (probably moreso.) A tom-boy girl is completely accepted. A girl can wear a football jersey to a game and no one cares, but a boy in a cheerleader outfit! Look out! Boys who play with Barbies or want to play princess dress up with their sisters are immediately reprimanded and it's never even spoken of again... They're just told DON'T DO THAT, and that's it, no explanation. It's so basic in our upbringing it's like learning to walk and talk. We get that training early and it carries through the rest of our lives. It's the same reason it's so hard for us to go out dressed, or tell our wives. Honestly, it's not that dangerous to go out dressed to a store in the middle of the day. A few stares, maybe a giggle behind our back, but it's not like we get attacked and stoned at the grocery store for wearing a dress. It's because we've all been taught so thoroughly that men aren't supposed to be feminine. I think honest men would say the reason they would never crossdress has nothing to do with themselves, but with society.

The really really sad thing is, I would raise a son the same way. I might not be as aggressively opposed to things like playing with girl toys, but I'd definitely steer him clear of wearing girls clothes or showing a feminine side in public. Mainly for his own good. I would want to protect him from it. It's so sad, but life is complicated that way I guess.

[Veronica Electronica]

But I believe that a lot of guys just have no desire to try it.

I agree. I didn't start cross dressing until I was about 15, as opposed to age 5 or 6 which seems to be the typical age around here. It wasn't because I was ashamed or repulsed by the idea, I just never thought about it. Until it just kind of popped into my head one day.


This thread asks, "Why aren't there more crossdressers?" This is another way of asking, "Why are we crossdressers?" The answer, of course is, "We don't know."

Exactly. The reasons I crossdress are different than why others do it.

Although, it's kind of funny, you'll often see very macho guys, usually athletes, really get into it. Maybe they have to do it for a hazing ritual to join a frat, or football team (having the players dress as cheerleaders), but after getting over their initial embarrassment they soon embrace it. Now in this case I think the fact that everyone knows it's a joke, and their not the only ones doing makes them feel more comfortable. I don't think that means that these same guys secretly want to dress as woman, however, even if they get a kick out of it.

[Frédérique]

Here is an intersting twist.(At least to me) I am not going to ask why we crossdress, but rather why dont more men crossdress? Why don't more men explore their feminine side? I know that there really isnt a right answer out there because most men you couldnt ask this question of but also because most of them either wouldnt answer you or would become violent. Its just a fun question to see what everyone else thinks.



I’m pretty sure the idea wouldn’t cross most men’s minds, but, in my opinion you have to have a mind to crossdress. Your senses have to be working on all cylinders, too – there are a lot of males out there that have no sense of touch, or even a light touch. This is a touchy subject, you know…:heehee:

You have to break away from your male friends to explore the wonderful world of crosssdressing. You have to like yourself, like spending time with yourself, like being alone, like being in a room alone with yourself, and, yes, you should enjoy talking to yourself as well – you’ll be doing a lot of the latter. It’s so much easier to throw away the potential of your personality and travel around in a pack with pack-mentality males, doing all sorts of stupid, useless things that may or may not include making loud noises, searching for raw materials to “enhance” the male experience, combining said materials, and then making more loud noises. That just about sums it up. This is a voyage to the interior, so you better leave your chin spinach behind – we’re going to a dark place that few men dare to dream of.

How many males wish to feel vulnerable? You have to embrace vulnerability in every way, shape, and form. You’re going to think differently and see things differently – there’s no going back, but you won’t want to go back, I assure you. You’re going to turn maleness on its head and become a much better person. It’s all very difficult, but you can do this. It all begins with a little innocent crossdressing, born of curiosity, alone with oneself in a room…

Of course, if you want to underdress and wear a bra and panties while you watch the football game with your male friends, I can’t help you – the path to enlightenment is open to the few and not-so-proud individuals who value personal exploration above all else, public opinion (and the opinion of one’s friends) be damned. I often see males who would make fabulous crossdressers, and I wonder “Why wouldn’t you want to do it?” What a mysterious, rare, precious, essential, misunderstood, beautiful yet vital thing crossdressing is…:whew!:

[madison lee]

I’m pretty sure the idea wouldn’t cross most men’s minds, but, in my opinion you have to have a mind to crossdress. Your senses have to be working on all cylinders, too – there are a lot of males out there that have no sense of touch, or even a light touch. This is a touchy subject, you know…:heehee:

You have to break away from your male friends to explore the wonderful world of crosssdressing. You have to like yourself, like spending time with yourself, like being alone, like being in a room alone with yourself, and, yes, you should enjoy talking to yourself as well – you’ll be doing a lot of the latter. It’s so much easier to throw away the potential of your personality and travel around in a pack with pack-mentality males, doing all sorts of stupid, useless things that may or may not include making loud noises, searching for raw materials to “enhance” the male experience, combining said materials, and then making more loud noises. That just about sums it up. This is a voyage to the interior, so you better leave your chin spinach behind – we’re going to a dark place that few men dare to dream of.

How many males wish to feel vulnerable? You have to embrace vulnerability in every way, shape, and form. You’re going to think differently and see things differently – there’s no going back, but you won’t want to go back, I assure you. You’re going to turn maleness on its head and become a much better person. It’s all very difficult, but you can do this. It all begins with a little innocent crossdressing, born of curiosity, alone with oneself in a room…

Of course, if you want to underdress and wear a bra and panties while you watch the football game with your male friends, I can’t help you – the path to enlightenment is open to the few and not-so-proud individuals who value personal exploration above all else, public opinion (and the opinion of one’s friends) be damned. I often see males who would make fabulous crossdressers, and I wonder “Why wouldn’t you want to do it?” What a mysterious, rare, precious, essential, misunderstood, beautiful yet vital thing crossdressing is…:whew!:




What a great concept! Thats so true in so many ways.

[Stitch]

Perhaps because it just isn't them? Perhaps they just don't want too? It is their choice not too cross dress as much as it's your choice to enjoy crossdressing. Why can't a man just not want too? As much as I don't want to be a delicate flower of a women. We all have our differences and personalities.

I don't think peer pressure comes into it nearly as much as you think. A lot of gay men fight against "social/peer pressure" but they have no desire to dress either.
My brother is a hetrosexual metrosexual and takes very good care of himself, spends a lot of time on his hair and appearance and that totally goes against the grain of society. He even owns £100 hair straighteners and loves shopping yet he is very happy being a man and isn't a cross dresser.

I can't help but feel that many of you feel that if men are masculine and don't break their mold they are falling to peer pressure, but at the same time get upset that women aren't wearing so many slips, pantyhose or items you all think are the epitome of womanhood these days? So men must fight it but women must surrender to it? Otherwise its a waste of their femininity?

Also I don't understand why so many of you seem to think that "regular" men are all Neanderthals who get drunk, watch sports, delight in violence and shouting. There seems to be a rather lot of man hating on this forum and it makes me sad. A lot of my friends are male and they are fantastic people. Men can be gentle and kind without dressing. It really comes down to the individual.

Some men don't cross dress because that is who they are, as much as some men do cross dress because that is who they are likewise.

[madison lee]

Society is made up of our peers, correct? And sense most of society in general looks down upon and condemns crossdressing as abnormal and unacceptable, then is that not peer pressure? Society says if you are a man then act like a man and dress like a man. If you are a woman then dress like a woman and act like a woman. Is that not a form of peer pressure? And btw I do not think that all men are neanderthals. I admit that I have been at clubs and have seen the evolutionary chain walk in backwards, but on the whole most men are ok.

[Kate Simmons]

Stitch pretty much nailed it. It all comes down to choice and individuality. Of course that is assuming a person is self assured and wants to be their own person regardless of what others do.:)

[Stitch]

Society is made up of our peers, correct? And sense most of society in general looks down upon and condemns crossdressing as abnormal and unacceptable, then is that not peer pressure? Society says if you are a man then act like a man and dress like a man. If you are a woman then dress like a woman and act like a woman. Is that not a form of peer pressure? And btw I do not think that all men are neanderthals. I admit that I have been at clubs and have seen the evolutionary chain walk in backwards, but on the whole most men are ok.

I'll agree that sadly society does frown and condemn crossdressing which truely is a tragic thing as I believe we should all have the right to be who we are inside. I don't think that all men who decide to be "men" are falling to peer pressure. No more so then women who choose to be girly. They are just being true to who they are inside.

Now I'd imagine that there are people who hide themselves and play the stereotypical role because inside they worry about who they are, but I don't think all men who act like proper man's men are lying to themselves inside. Maybe they love being that way, as much as you ladies seem to enjoy being who you are.

I don't know about being a women and acting like a women, I just act like me, I just happen to be in a female body. I wear what I want to wear, and do what I want to do. I have long hair because I think long hair is awesome, not because its "what women have." If anything I've actually had more people telling me its far too long and I should cut it. Real women have styled hair don't you know? Apparently only little girls have long hair. Just to clarify, when I say long hair I don't mean shoulder length. My hair is past my elbows and I'm aiming to get it past my bottom. I can't trust hairdressers with it as they always tell me to cut it all off and have a cute layered short style instead. :(
I don't bend to peer pressure, and I never have. Even during my teen years when its supposedly when your meant to fit in. I do what I want to do, I'm very stubborn that way. :heehee:

My current peer pressure is babies. Women are meant to settle down and have babies. I like children but I don't want any, (lord knows working in a school is hard enough) but apparently "I'll change my mind" as all women want babies!
I go against lots of social norms, because its who I am, I won't change myself for anyone and I don't doubt for a second that there are men who do the same thing.

I didn't necessarily mean you directly felt that all men were Neanderthals, but there were a couple of posts in this thread which seemed to tar them that way.

[Earlene]

Interesting question Madison Lee.

Some people say that all of us are 50% male and 50% female. I think that is stereotypical. I think we need to say that we are part female and part male. I don't know what percentage I am female or what percentage I am male. I just know that I am genetically male with apparentlly a little more female than most genetic males because of my desires.

As we all now, we are all different, one way or another, a little or a lot. Some are more female while some are more male.

Some people like watching sports, others like to participate in sports, while yet others don't have anything to do with sports (me). Some people like to shop (me), while others don't want to even go near a store. Some people like to cook and eat (me) while others like to just eat and others...you don't want them near the kitchen (not kidding).

Did you notice that I didn't use the male or female designation in the last paragraph?

So, why do some men not want to crossdress? They don't have the desire to do it. Some of it has to be our enviornment, but I think some of it is just plain old genetics.

Penelope

[Southern Jenni]

It is unfortunate that you would raise a son in the manner that you describe. The only way to change things is to discourage these useless stereotypes. Your comment is the reason that change does not occur for males in this society.

:rolleyes:

I'm just stating a sad reality, Jamie. I understand exactly what you're saying, but as a parent I wouldn't want to use my child as way to make my own personal statement on society. That's a horrible way to raise a kid. If he made a choice then that's fine and I'd support him gleefully, but I wouldn't put him in a position where he was oblivious to the reaction his actions would get from a brutal society waiting right outside the door.

[joann426]

well tonite i went to a stake fry with my gloriavanderbuilt jeans on whitch i bought a month ago i was afraid to wera them .but tonite i said (what the heck) you know no one even noticed and they fit so good that i will wear them all the time now i had a nice time there also :)

[Michelle42]

I have a pitutary gland problem and when I don't take my meds.. My testosterone production is superssed and my urge to crossdress completely goes away! Figure that one put..

Wow, very interesting. Seems to be in conflict with the mantra that "as one gets older, CDing loses its sexual element".