wife needs a man

[pernille d]

like many i have been dressing in secret since an early age , and now i can not lie anymore to my SO, we have been together for 21 years and married for 13. I know its going to be hard and i have researhed for many months how to handle it ,thats not the problem . the only thing that worries me is that , she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man . in drab i am quite a man and that she likes but i dont know how she will react to the woman in me.

i was wondering if there is anyone out there that can relate to this, and give advise or tell about reactiions (good or bad )

[Rogina B]

Since you are new to this site....You can probably find all the discussion you care to read about your question.Just start scrolling the columns and pages. It is all over here!

[TJ Tresa]

Pernille, honey you have yourself in a bad situation. One of which could go either way. You will find several discussioins about this. I hope that something will help. However before you make the final decision to tell ask yourself this Question. "Is my CDing worth losing all that I have?" I hope that it will not come to that. But you must realize it is a possibility. If you are extremly lucky she will embrace it and accept you as you are. If that happens she can always tell you when she needs her man.
I dress almost every day and sleep in a night gown. when my wife has had enough or needs her man she tells me and I go change. I am lucky. I hope you are too. Good luck

[pernille d]

i may be a new member here , but believe me i have read so much here .
i know its a bad situation , on the one hand we dont want to lie to our SO and on the other hand we want to be at ease with who we are . i have spent many years wondering who i am or what i am , and its only now at the age of almost 40 i have found out . i am not ill.i am not odd i am not weired ,i am just a crossdressser. i do wonder though if it takes me so long to understand it , how can i expect my SO to understand it . i love her and i need to tell her so i can have ballance i my soul.

[Sheila]

There is this HERE (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106619) from the GG's which might give you a clue to what she may be feeling and thinking

or this HERE (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890) which was written by Marla GG that might help you

You could always tell her about this site and the fact we have a GG only part of the forum F.A.B (Females At Birth) that she can apply to join after she had done an intro in the intro section and a further 9 post on the forum, she will be able to come and talk with us GG's who have been/are going, through what she is feeling now :hugs: to you both and good luck :)

Edited to add .................... once you tell her, make sure you give her time to take it in, answer her with total honesty from there on .... if you don't know say so, do not lie. I t may take some time for her to come round, she may never accept it, ot it may turn out all okay, will keep fingers crossed for you both

[Sandra]

Edited to add .................... once you tell her, make sure you give her time to take it in, answer her with total honesty from there on .... if you don't know say so, do not lie. I t may take some time for her to come round, she may never accept it, ot it may turn out all okay, will keep fingers crossed for you both


Couldn't agree more.

Don't expect it to be all ok in a few weeks,as it can take months even years for an SO to take it all in and be ok with it all.

Also as Sheila has said don't lie, because if you do and she finds out later on that you have, then things could turn nasty and unpleasant for both of you.

Let us know how things go.

[suchacutie]

After you read all the great entries above, let me just mention that my wife is completely supportive of Tina. Our agreement is that our marriage comes first, and when she wants her man, that's exactly what she gets! There is a time for Tina, and then there is a time for the man she married.

works for me, and I do hope it can work for you!

tina

[tazthis]

This is where I think things get alittle sticky...my opinion only. I accepted the cding fine and enjoy behind closed doors....but honestly when I entered the relationship I entered thinking it was with a man and man only. And honestly do not desire to be a relationship with a full time CDer. Now with that being said, I think if you are going to tell her, that will be one of the most important topics to discuss with her, because it sound like for her that may be an issue. If you know that your intentions are to be full time at any point down the road, you should be completely honest. As far as how she will accept the women in you depends on her...and you know her better than any of us.

[Lorileah]

The more I read these threads the more I wonder if I am the odd one out.

I know that everyone here has a different story (some epic novels, mine more a Pop-up book) but everyone tries to make this an either/or proposition. I am and can be either very femme or I can be the biggest jerk of a man you ever met. I don't stay in one mode and it does not matter what I am wearing. It seems that several people here think that if you dress you cannot function in a male capacity. Yet, several find dressing sexually stimulating (so if that is what women are looking for when they say they want a man, I would think that would be a great reason to allow your man to dress or maybe I misunderstand the Cialis commercials) and I am sure that I don't forget how to fix the plumbing or mow the lawn or, if I had children, be a caring and nurturing father just because I have a skirt on. I can also cook a gourmet meal, enjoy the finer things in life and any other stereotypical feminine role you can suggest. If your relationship is based on physical appearance alone you are in trouble from the beginning. What exactly do women mean when they say I want a man? I don't think there is a standard answer no more than when a guy says he wants a woman. Does that mean he wants "Barbie"/ June Cleaver pearls and dress? Or does it mean he wants the subservient weak (childish?) person who doesn't think for themselves and does everything and anything who demand?

This is not an either/or unless you are planning on transitioning. You are who you are. The trappings are just that. Your arms are no less consoling when you dress up. Your body no less warm when you cuddle.

Don't put so much weight on what you wear. Put it on WHO you are. Either you are there for her or you ain't. Honestly the way man are portrayed we ain't there because that would show emotion. If both partners work together, dressing could be the ideal, the best of both worlds. This fails when one or both become self centered and selfish

[suchacutie]

Lorileah said it so much better than I did!!!

Why can't CDing be an addition instead of a subtraction???

:2c:

tina

[KayC]

Lorileah,
I don't understand what you don't get about us wanting a man...it is a man we chose, we didn't know until later that tables would be turned on us. If we aren't bi, we aren't physically attracted to women, so if he presents as a woman, that's how we see him...end of physical attraction. That is what we mean. No it doesn't mean we want a chauvinist pig, etc., that's not what we chose either...he's not that whether he presents as a man or dressed. It's really about physical attraction...basically he's the same inside whether dressed or not, but there's many of us that struggle with the idea of physical sex with someone who LOOKS like a woman, even if we know intellectually it is still our man. It does a number on us. Some of us may be able to get past that...some may not. But there are times we want a "man"...who looks like a man, talks like a man, smells like a man, acts like a man. If your wife looked and smelled like a man 24/7, wouldn't you miss the "her" that you married?

[sherri52]

Hi Pernille and welcome to the site. I was caught by my first wife and dressed for the second and the results didn't fair well for me so the only advice I'll give is to see what Sheila has for you. She has always steered me straight in the past.

[Jayne Wordan]

The more I read these threads the more I wonder if I am the odd one out.

I know that everyone here has a different story (some epic novels, mine more a Pop-up book) but everyone tries to make this an either/or proposition. I am and can be either very femme or I can be the biggest jerk of a man you ever met. I don't stay in one mode and it does not matter what I am wearing. It seems that several people here think that if you dress you cannot function in a male capacity. Yet, several find dressing sexually stimulating (so if that is what women are looking for when they say they want a man, I would think that would be a great reason to allow your man to dress or maybe I misunderstand the Cialis commercials) and I am sure that I don't forget how to fix the plumbing or mow the lawn or, if I had children, be a caring and nurturing father just because I have a skirt on. I can also cook a gourmet meal, enjoy the finer things in life and any other stereotypical feminine role you can suggest. If your relationship is based on physical appearance alone you are in trouble from the beginning. What exactly do women mean when they say I want a man? I don't think there is a standard answer no more than when a guy says he wants a woman. Does that mean he wants "Barbie"/ June Cleaver pearls and dress? Or does it mean he wants the subservient weak (childish?) person who doesn't think for themselves and does everything and anything who demand?

This is not an either/or unless you are planning on transitioning. You are who you are. The trappings are just that. Your arms are no less consoling when you dress up. Your body no less warm when you cuddle.

Don't put so much weight on what you wear. Put it on WHO you are. Either you are there for her or you ain't. Honestly the way man are portrayed we ain't there because that would show emotion. If both partners work together, dressing could be the ideal, the best of both worlds. This fails when one or both become self centered and selfish

I couldnt have put this any better myself. Only problem is that SO's dont always have the this idea :(

[Lorileah]

Lorileah,
I don't understand what you don't get about us wanting a man...it is a man we chose, we didn't know until later that tables would be turned on us. If we aren't bi, we aren't physically attracted to women, so if he presents as a woman, that's how we see him...end of physical attraction. That is what we mean. No it doesn't mean we want a chauvinist pig, etc., that's not what we chose either...he's not that whether he presents as a man or dressed. It's really about physical attraction...basically he's the same inside whether dressed or not, but there's many of us that struggle with the idea of physical sex with someone who LOOKS like a woman, even if we know intellectually it is still our man. It does a number on us. Some of us may be able to get past that...some may not. But there are times we want a "man"...who looks like a man, talks like a man, smells like a man, acts like a man. If your wife looked and smelled like a man 24/7, wouldn't you miss the "her" that you married?

You are making this sexual. Tell me something, if there were no difference between the clothing you and your SO wore, would he be less a man if he expressed compassion instead of aggression? Here is where we get confused.

Women want power, and softness. Women want muscles yet tenderness. Acting like a man is societal. Smelling like a man is sort of gross usually. Talking like a man? is that like talking like a sailor? (females seem to do that a lot now)

Wives dress like men all the time (I hate that argument from CD's I don't like it any better from GG's). There is no gender in most daily women's wear in most cases. Women wear short hair (men prefer long hair...yet...). Some women never wear makeup most wear as little as they can. Men don't seem to have any problem looking past button down shirts, slacks and combat boots with a high and tight hair cut. Why is it harder for women to get past the opposite?

Everything that defines "man" to you is learned. If a male takes care of kittens is he not a man? If he cannot lift a small car? Guys can make a wonderful living and never get in fights or shoot weapons or hunt animals.

Do you see why we are confused? Most here don't want to be women. They just want to wear what they like or not be so confined to societal rules.

Has any GG here been asked when they put on a pair of pants "Do you want to be a guy? Do you want to have sex with a woman? You are not what I married...go put on a dress so I can see the woman I married"? (apologies to the transmen on that because they have been asked that I am sure).

[KayC]

When a GG says "I want a man", it IS about sexuality. Few of us can separate it so perfectly as you seem to in your head, maybe you're just miles ahead of us, I don't know, all I know is I'm not apologetic for wanting my man to BE a man at least some of the time, and I think most of the GGs feel the same way. It makes it a lot harder to respond if they look like a woman, we aren't Bi.

And there is a difference between a woman donning a pair of jeans and boots so she can shovel snow and a man wearing dress and heels for??? What functionality do they serve? I have no desire to look like a man, but I do need to wear pants in the wintertime where I live.

I certainly feel a man should be able to wear whatever he wants but if he is married it involves the both of you, not just him, and both need considered.

Women vary anywhere from no makeup to way too much. I personally don't think I look like a man whether I wear pants or not, but then I'm not strapping on fake muscles either. Ouch, sorry if that hurts but I think you're arguments doesn't hold.

By the way...I showed my BF your picture the other day because you, of everyone on this site, look most authentically like a beautiful model...a real girl!

[Kerigirl2009]

I would SERIOUSLY think about what your wifes reaction is going to be. Way the good and the bad BECAUSE once you tell her you can NEVER take it back, as she will always know. IT CHANGES HER VIEW OF YOU weather that is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely UP TO HER.
I only say this as I told my wife of fifteen years 3 months ago. It was very difficult but it has been even more difficult then I imagined it would be. If I could turn back time. I would. I am still hopeful that all will be well and we will spend the rest of our lives together, but once you tell her because of all your guilt or what have you. Your wife is completely in charge of your happiness as a couple. This too can be a good thing as long as your wife is willing to change her views, and try to accept you for you and your other self.
I am not trying to tell you not to tell her as for me it had to be done, but be ready for the worst BUT HOPE for the BEST.
I have experienced many ups and downs since I came out to my wife but I am still hopeful that we can make it through this together. I just have to remember to take it as slow as my wife needs me to. Because I LOVE my wife and family I will try my best to do just that. I hope you do the same and I wish you the best of luck that I can offer. GOOD LUCK :)

[Lorileah]

When a GG says "I want a man", it IS about sexuality. Few of us can separate it so perfectly as you seem to in your head, maybe you're just miles ahead of us, I don't know, all I know is I'm not apologetic for wanting my man to BE a man at least some of the time, and I think most of the GGs feel the same way. It makes it a lot harder to respond if they look like a woman, we aren't Bi.

And there is a difference between a woman donning a pair of jeans and boots so she can shovel snow and a man wearing dress and heels for??? What functionality do they serve? I have no desire to look like a man, but I do need to wear pants in the wintertime where I live.

I certainly feel a man should be able to wear whatever he wants but if he is married it involves the both of you, not just him, and both need considered.

Women vary anywhere from no makeup to way too much. I personally don't think I look like a man whether I wear pants or not, but then I'm not strapping on fake muscles either. Ouch, sorry if that hurts but I think you're arguments doesn't hold.

By the way...I showed my BF your picture the other day because you, of everyone on this site, look most authentically like a beautiful model...a real girl!

Thanks for the compliment. I also look pretty darn good in a sport jacket and fedora. :)

In defense of the CD's here looking more female, you can look at other postings where that exact question has been asked by Cd's. IF there were no double standard, there are quite a few here who would be satisfied to wear a skirt without all the fake body parts. But that is not allowed in society. In order to even go out CD's believe they have to look like a woman totally for 'protection'. Even our own will condemn a "man in a skirt" as being weird. Why? You got to be carefully taught.

I am still at a loss when you believe that just because a male wears clothing "designed" for a female they cannot fit your definition of a man. If said male feels more comfortable doing some sort of task (you say shoveling snow) in a dress or skirt how can you say they are wrong to do so when you decide to wear slacks? Maybe wearing a skirt to garden is more comfortable to them than dungarees. Women have that option. No one forces you to wear something just because you are female. Yet, you think that a male changes into a female when they change clothing. Functionally? I will defer to the age old excuse women have used ...It's comfortable.

A woman who dresses to present as a man can wear muscles or facial hair but they can "Pass" without that (I don't have either and I present as a man almost all the time) How a person presents is ...personal.

Does your mate stop being sexual when he dresses? Does he demand that you do something you don't normally do?

Why do people assume when a guy likes "feminine" things that he wants to be the opposite sex or have sex with the same sex? You tell men to be secure in our sexuality and then you are insecure in yours. I don't care for the lying, sneaking around or the guilty feelings that CD's have. If people would quit putting so much sexual weight on how a person dresses you would not see so much of that. The arguments of functionality or comfort are the rote answers that women put out 4o years ago. But they don't go the other way? Unless, somehow, your partner's genitals go somewhere when he puts on a dress OR he demands that you grow a sexual part before he will sleep with you, it should not be a sexual thing.

The insecurity you feel about being "bi" is you. Unless the dressing is done expressly for sexual purposes, it is just clothing.

I cannot make you feel better because you will always harbor those feelings. You look at it from that angle and no matter how much someone tries to reassure you , you will always assume that your man is gay because of his preference in a feel or look of a piece of clothing. Would we like women to wear dresses or skirts and heels all the time? Smell like verbena? Act like we are the reason for their living and be totally subservient? Many guys would say yes. Yet those are the guys women complain about for being dogs and cads. For not taking into account your feelings. For being totally self serving.

Is there a saying for men like "I want a guy who is intelligent at dinner, a mechanic in the garage and an animal in bed"? Sounds sexist doesn't it? It should. But that is what being a man seems to mean to many women.

[Sage GG]

Why can't CDing be an addition instead of a subtraction???



tina



:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[KayC]

I'm not going to quote everything from Lorileah, it seems redundant to, but I am amazed you can't understand our problem being attracted to someone who looks like a woman when we're heterosexual. And it's not just a dress, it's the breasts, the heels, the nails, the wig, the makeup, jewelry, perfume, everything. Come on, when you wear all that, you're trying to look like a woman!
I don't know anyone in their right mind that'd be more comfortable in a dress shoveling snow, but I say, if they want to, more power to them!
I never said a male changes into a female when they dress, I said they LOOK like a woman! Our sexual attraction is more than just to who the inner person is, it's also affected by sight, and smell.
I seriously doubt I could look like a man if I put on a plaid shirt and pair of jeans, my features are too feminine and I'm small.
And I don't "assume" a guy wants to be a woman if he likes feminine things, I never said anything of the kind.
You said I will always harbor these feelings...how can you presume to say how I will "always" be? I continually try to learn and grow and change, hence I do. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and re-read your responses...you're putting words in my mouth that aren't there. For instance, I never said I have any insecurity about being bi, I'm not bi, I'm heterosexual, I stated that, I could care less what I am, I am just stating a fact...it's not for us to decide or change what we are, to say differently would be kind of an oxymoron, wouldn't it?
Assume my man is gay??? Where the blank did you come up with that? In the beginning when us GGs first learn our SO is a CD, we have QUESTIONS, which when answered, help us know what we're dealing with...however some of the CDers have lied for so long about it that their SO doesn't know what they can believe and what they can't...then the issue is not CDing but trust. And please don't assume you know what I want in a man or what I think a man is, you don't know me well enough to make such a presumption. No matter how gorgeous you are, for instance, I can tell you are a man.

[Rebecca Jayne]

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing
is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.

I can have on man clothes and be effeminate,
I can have on a dress and be masculine,
It doesn't matter what I wear
Its who's inside that counts.


Man
Woman
One Chromosome
That's all

[Sheila]

she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man . in drab i am quite a man and that she likes but i dont know how she will react to the woman in me.

Does she say she misses A man or her man hun ?.......... there is a difference

[KayC]

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing
is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.


Didn't say that...but it matters to some of us.

[Sheila]

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.

by the same token some CD's need to be set straight that wearing womens clothing does not make you a woman, it takes more than a set of clothes to be either gender :straightface:

[noeleena]

Hi...
I see many details here that men dont understand about (( & i can say this )) as i am one . women . i am not one or the other yet both . & was born this way . a andro .
A woman see s a man & falls in love with that person . a real all male ..../ man ...not some one like me who never was a real ... man . yet i seemed to pass . from the body side of things . we Jos & i have three grown up youing adults . yet was never able to think as a male fully . or accept them . so there was allways a conflct the female & woman that i was & am . is a part of me . was allways there .
Jos married what she thought was a real male . hence going through a hell of what is going on here 8 year s of not understanding knowing & trying to work out what all this was & is about . ..
Put your self in Jos s shoes . & understand were she is coming from then .....may be .... you will understand what going through hell is like .
The psychologically ..mentalally .. & emotionally . detail of being a woman then have the rug ..pulled out from under you . then yes its bloody hard . to say the lest ... we v had 8 years of this . & yes it s stressfull & when Jos was down . i come to her as a women & give her my hand to lift her up . as she looks in to my eye s & see s a woman . no wonder Jos hit the deck . & damm hard ..
You have to see from her side what has & is happening to you as well as you . the changes . & dont try & fool your self you are the same person . that is utter bullshit . i know from experance . that you change . your wife s partner s & s o s will see the changes .
Your wife need s a man . not a dresser . or a male who dress s some times . what ever . this is & was not a part of the deal when you me or others married so think as a woman if you cant then just try . . then accept you may part .
We. Jos & i have been married for 34 years . & been together 36 we had our marriage anuuld . so if Jos wonts to leave then she is free. to do so & marry a real man . male .....
What i have been trying to say is i think both ways so know how jos was thinking after i came out to her & said i am a woman . just did not live as one . tryed to be male . yet if i had known i did sort of yet could not put it to gether . a bit slow . . was both m & f at that time it would have made so much of a differance . i would have understood my self better as well . some time s we cant explain our selfs then later on when we try . it seems to go wrong .
Not every woman can accept who we are when we change . or do things that seem strange . yet for some they accept with out ?? Jos accepts now yet its still hard . so we are just two women . living in our own home .
a lot of neat essays have been done here . & i do hope it works out for you . & others who may read our letters . who may have to go through this . all the best ......
...noeleena...

[pernille d]

thanks for all your advice/ comments , it has made me think a lot

after 25 years in hideing i am going a bit nuts, i am not one that needs to be a woman 24/7 and things vary from just underwear to full dressing depending on my moods. i am happy with that and who i am , but it makes me very uptight keeping a secret,and the constant pressure should i or should i not tell her, My SO knows something is not right and wants me to be relaxed but i know the only way to help me is to tell her. i understand both sides of the story and lots of times think this is unfair as i see this as my problem and as soon as i tell her its not so much my problem any more, but becomes a problem for her . does it not just move the problem from one partner to the other !!!!

i am confused and really dont know what to do , the problem is i cant be selfish and think about my needs, i think about the affects on others as well so what ever i do i can only see a winner and looser but i jst cant except that ,

[Sheila]

i am not one that needs to be a woman 24/7 and things vary from just underwear to full dressing depending on my moods. i am happy with that and who i am , but it makes me very uptight keeping a secret,and the constant pressure should i or should i not tell her, My SO knows something is not right and wants me to be relaxed but i know the only way to help me is to tell her. i understand both sides of the story and lots of times think this is unfair as i see this as my problem and as soon as i tell her its not so much my problem any more, but becomes a problem for her . does it not just move the problem from one partner to the other !!!!

i am confused and really dont know what to do , the problem is i cant be selfish and think about my needs, i think about the affects on others as well so what ever i do i can only see a winner and looser but i jst cant except that ,

sweeitie you come across as a very caring partner and I have no doubt your wife thinks the same way, only you can judge whether you think your wife will accept this side of you or not ........... but already she knows something is very wrong, heck she may be thinking that you have a mistress ?

yes sometimes we as GG's feel we are dragged into the closet with you and sometimes that feeling is justified by the behavior of some CDERs, yes sometimes some of us GG's wish we didn't have the knowledge you give us ....... me I have always been "gimmee the truth and let me decide what I do with the knowledge", she may take it well or she may not but if you do decide to tell her, let her know about this site and the fact we have a GG only section where she can come talk to us GG's who are feeling how she is feeling or have felt how she is feeling, and that neither you nor her are alone in this, sometimes that knowledge helps a lot:)

:hugs: Sheila

[KayC]

You do sound like a very caring partner. As Sheila said, your wife already knows something's up. It'd be best if you could tell her and help her to work through whatever fears and questions she might have, the same as the rest of us GGs, direct her to this site and have her get her 10 posts in and apply to the FAB section...it'll help her to know she's not alone and there's others going through the same things and also see the role modeling of other more experienced GGs that have been at this a lot longer. You might think it's unfair to put her in the position of knowing this, but think of the converse...is it fair for her to not know what you are keeping her in the dark from, thus putting an invisible wall between the two of you that she undoubtedly senses and feels? Yes it would have been good for her to know from the beginning, but that's not an option now, instead, you have only here forward to live in and it'd be great if you could be open with each other and understanding...what a wonderful shared experience that would be!

[Bea A]

I understand KayC's point. My wife and I have struggled with this until we came to a happy medium. KayC wants a man. by whatever her definition is. There's nothing wrong with that. Its what she wants. The clothing issue KayC talks about is real struggle for GG's because women wear certain clothing to get a man's attention. They know that and certainly we know that. That seems to be her issue. Her SO wants to dress and there's nothing wrong with that. Lorileah's comment about the double standard is true and real. However...sometimes the wants/needs of the people involved will clash. :2c:That's where communication and compromise come in. Best of luck KayC

[Marissa]

she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man


Does she say she misses A man or her man hun ?.......... there is a difference

Sheila, I had the same question as soon as I saw this.. most would say "I miss MY man". Maybe reading too much into it but sometimes it can be a sign.

Lori and KayC have made some good points, even though it seems it has taken a turn to a more one on one discussion. Taking parts from both does help to understand the two sides of the story.

I do understand a woman wanting to be 'taken' by her man sexually and yes I could see where if that man was wearing sexy lingerie, etc would lessen the impact if a woman is straight. Kay gave good references to how a man may see a woman who is being masculine, especially when it comes to sexual attraction.

Pernille, whatever your decision will be, its like all things in life, expect the unexpected and understand the doors you open.

I took that chance but have to say, more to the story that ended the marriage.

It is always nice to read all the relationships that include a GG that turned for the best when crossdressing was introduced. But for everyone that works, there is one that does not work out... So that leaves me a bit hesitant to believe that would happen for me at this time.. some of it is me, but some is 'where would that person be found?'

One thing for sure, if i do chose to continue dressing (like I have a choice :D), it is something that I would let known at the beginning, since it is unfair to hide it and then let it be known later as the relationship grows. Its understandable if you discovered those feelings later, but to come into a relationship, knowing but not telling is not fair. Sorry, my feelings so don't beat me up to bad.. :eek:

Thanks to all for commenting as it does help us all..

Hugs,

[Lorileah]

*still struggling with exactly what makes one a "man" or a "woman" other than physical genitalia that does not change w/o surgery*

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. Ravage me...but be gentle. This is all so confusing

[Sheila]

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. R

Lori this woman does not want to be taken, rather I and most of my friends that I have talked with agree that we are equal partners sexually in the relationship, sometimes "he" leads sometimes "we (the GF)" lead and in the relationship I know have with Debs sometimes "she" leads at other times nobody leads and we fall asleep :eek::eek::doh::doh::heehee::heehee:

[Lorileah]

Sheila now I am more confused...you mean all women are not the same in needs and wants? Somebody get me a rule book please

[Shayna2008]

These are confusing things to keep up with on both sides. I wish our society didn't require men and women to be so opposite of each other. From early age men and women are separated and basically pulled into two different worlds. This makes sense to a point but this should be balanced out with a bit of insight into the other side. Judging by the fact that Dr. Phil dedicated an entire show to men who felt emasculated because they're no longer the "breadwinner" I think is evidence this insight isn't available to the masses yet.

In other countries where gender roles aren't so opposite of each other (aka more fluid), CD'ing and the like is more accepted. Not to mention a man can get away with wearing perhaps just a hairstyle or a garment to express his fem side. In our country (USA) this is not the case. Gender is either-or and that's it to most people. This could be why many feel they must go all out wearing everything fem from head to toe. This may also have to do with why sex change operations are done at such a high rate here. I don't have an issue with going all the way if that's what you feel you have to do. But I believe society is a major reason why a CD'r may feel they must wear everything from nails to perfume to officially feel feminine.

Just for the record, I prefer to dress head to toe fem because I'm comfortable with that. I go out in public very rarely as Shayna because I'm not at that comfort/confidence level yet. I have no interest in surgeries now, but attitudes can change throughout life.

I just think that if society was more fluid in their gender expectations here in the US, then CD'ing would be easier. Life may be easier if you're a man who just wanted to wear a skirt out to the mall one day, rather than a whole outfit with accesories. You wouldn't have to worry about passing and mastering the mannerisms to avoid harassment.

I don't think society is the only reason for these issues, but I think it's definitely a major influence.

[pernille d]

this has turned into an interesting thread ,

i think my SO was just lonely,more so than normal, being away from her home,kids and me(who happens to be bed ridden after a foot operation)

we can go on for ever wondering and reading things into what she said and her inner meanings .but basically i think all she was trying to say was that she really missed me.

there is a huge difference in " misses her man to misses a man" but i know her and its just a light hearted way she looks and talks about things ,as we tend to tease each other about it some time. yes i would be worried if i knew she ment " a man" but she doen,t

[sissystephanie]

Pernille, I am sorry to hear that you have waited this long to tell you wife! It will be tough, no question!

But this answer may help. I told my late wife BEFORE we married! Her first question was, "Do you want to be a woman?" I said, "No, I just like to dress like one!" Then she said, "Will you always remember you are my MAN, no matter what you are wearing?" I told her, "Yes, of course I will!" And I did so in many ways throught the 49+ years we had together! BTW, she was totally supportive of my CD activites! To the point that we wore matching white silk lingerie, which she picked out and bought, to our wedding! Just never your wife have any reason to question whether or not you are a man under those lacy panties!!:heehee:

[KayC]

*still struggling with exactly what makes one a "man" or a "woman" other than physical genitalia that does not change w/o surgery*

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. Ravage me...but be gentle. This is all so confusing

Am not sure who you're referring to Lorileah, it couldn't be me because I've never said that. I don't think it's merely the inside or merely the outside that makes someone seem like a man (or woman) to us, but maybe a combination of everything. That's one of the reasons I think it's hard for someone with an exterior that doesn't match their interior person...people mistake them for something they aren't. Maybe it'll just take time to work through all this...be patient with me, I've only known a couple of months, if that.

[suchacutie]

KayC...

I can't speak for Lorileah (although I think the two of us agree totally here!) but as for me, I fully understand that you would want the man you married! So does my wife, and I'm perfectly delighted to make sure she never forgets that the man she married is still here! I know perfectly well what she means when she looks at me and says she wants her man, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a sexual content. Of the many things she has taught me in the last few years is that the thought patterns and response patterns of most women are different from that of men, and whether it's a generality or not, I know what her thoughts are about the issue because she's told me!

BTW, she also will invite Tina to visit for an evening as well, so I really do know the difference.

I do believe that some of us really are in the wrong body and will, therefore, eventually be driven to change that situation, and that must be discussed between married partners. For the rest of us who exist in both genders, and especially those of us with supportive spouses, there is nothing that we wouldn't do to make sure our devoted spouses know that they have devoted spouses, too! I sincerely hope you are in that situation as well, KayC.

Often her man, and sometimes her gf Tina.

[Sheila]

Sheila now I am more confused...you mean all women are not the same in needs and wants? Somebody get me a rule book please

Thank goodness you didn't say operator manual :rofl:

[Lorileah]

Am not sure who you're referring to Lorileah, it couldn't be me because I've never said that. I don't think it's merely the inside or merely the outside that makes someone seem like a man (or woman) to us, but maybe a combination of everything. That's one of the reasons I think it's hard for someone with an exterior that doesn't match their interior person...people mistake them for something they aren't. Maybe it'll just take time to work through all this...be patient with me, I've only known a couple of months, if that.

It was directed to many here in general. I have tried to get you to look in a different light that just because someone wears something it does not make them the opposite gender yet that seems to be the sticking point in your mind on this. You are not alone several GG's throughout these threads have voiced the same opinion. It is something you need to work out for yourself. It is not far off the old "You wear a dress you must be gay" adage that I hope will someday go away. It is like all stereotypes, based on misinformation. (realize that 60+% of the people on here when we had polls stated they were straight, so the clothes didn't change their preference). It would be for you something that you would need to either relearn to ignore to be with your SO in a sexual situation. I understand your point. You are the one who worries about being "bi" if you accept the clothing. But be assured that the post above was directed at another stereotype, that women in sexual situations (and by association CD's not being men on this thread) must be submissive and want to be physically (and it was intimated) violently ravaged. I missed the boat here because for 40 years I have been working with the concept that men and women are equals. No one is to be "taken" unless that is what they want. We must get past these burned-in images that we must conform to something that is no longer a requirement to survive. Men no long need to hunt or kill. Women no longer NEED a male to insure their survival.

What I am trying to get is why, when some women talk, they say I want compassion, caring, gentleness in a man then turn around and want an animal who is brusque, selfish and mean. And when they get a man who likes softness and gentleness, they freak out and fear homosexual innuendos.

The GG's are outnumbered here so there won't be many responses I am sure. But I don't get it still. How do the clothes make me less "man"? I really want to know because I need to grow and change if I am doing it all wrong.

[Marissa]

there is a huge difference in " misses her man to misses a man" but i know her and its just a light hearted way she looks and talks about things ,as we tend to tease each other about it some time. yes i would be worried if i knew she ment " a man" but she doen,t

Thank you for clarifing that, it can be a confused comment.. but understood now.

As for Lori and Kay, its all confusing.. maybe the term is 'confused' dressing, not crossdressing.. :heehee:

Guess i know in my heart, i long for that day i meet her who accepts me for me..but yet apprehensive in even venturing to go on the search.. Just content with dressing and going out when i can.. and supprting this site :D:daydreaming::)

Hugs,

[Round Robin]

I wish I never found out...

[Marissa]

I wish I never found out...

Hi Robin, If you don't mind Robin, would you explain why? what changed? are you married or single?

I'm learning about this and a gg's point of view is always helpful too..

[Karen564]

I'm not going to quote everything from Lorileah, it seems redundant to, but I am amazed you can't understand our problem being attracted to someone who looks like a woman when we're heterosexual. And it's not just a dress, it's the breasts, the heels, the nails, the wig, the makeup, jewelry, perfume, everything. Come on, when you wear all that, you're trying to look like a woman!
I don't know anyone in their right mind that'd be more comfortable in a dress shoveling snow, but I say, if they want to, more power to them!
I never said a male changes into a female when they dress, I said they LOOK like a woman! Our sexual attraction is more than just to who the inner person is, it's also affected by sight, and smell.
I seriously doubt I could look like a man if I put on a plaid shirt and pair of jeans, my features are too feminine and I'm small.
And I don't "assume" a guy wants to be a woman if he likes feminine things, I never said anything of the kind.
You said I will always harbor these feelings...how can you presume to say how I will "always" be? I continually try to learn and grow and change, hence I do. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and re-read your responses...you're putting words in my mouth that aren't there. For instance, I never said I have any insecurity about being bi, I'm not bi, I'm heterosexual, I stated that, I could care less what I am, I am just stating a fact...it's not for us to decide or change what we are, to say differently would be kind of an oxymoron, wouldn't it?
Assume my man is gay??? Where the blank did you come up with that? In the beginning when us GGs first learn our SO is a CD, we have QUESTIONS, which when answered, help us know what we're dealing with...however some of the CDers have lied for so long about it that their SO doesn't know what they can believe and what they can't...then the issue is not CDing but trust. And please don't assume you know what I want in a man or what I think a man is, you don't know me well enough to make such a presumption. No matter how gorgeous you are, for instance, I can tell you are a man.

For some reason KayC, it's not hard for me to completely understand & agree 100% with what you've been saying all along, but I'm a MTF TS, & have been on both sides of the fence, but this argument just proves that Men really are from Mars & Women are from Venus... Just two worlds apart...Lol

Although this debate clearly shows they still do think like Men deep down..whether they put on a dress & heels or not.

But they will never Truly understand us, , So you matters well just talk to a brick wall, it's about the same hardness & you'll get the same results without the aggravation..:wall:

[Lorileah]

now I wonder why you think women think differently than men. Can I not think like a woman? Can a woman not think "like a man"? I know there are "jokes" about how women can't park and men can't choose fashion. As men we take those and let them roll off our backs because we are told that's what men do. But women take them to heart and get emotional. Both are learned and reinforced behaviors. See this whole thing just gets convoluted into learned and stereotypical behaviors. Why do people HAVE to be one thing or another?

Mars and Venus. Has anything in the last 20 years done more to bolster stereotypes? And how do the other 6 planets feel about that? (Or if it refers to Roman gods, the other gods?). Does Niya have it right in her signature? The TG;s are from Earth?

BTW I get what the GG's are saying here too, it is just that I don't think as things as black and white, especially when the black and white are required upon me.

Anyway, I am surprised the mods have allowed me to corrupt this thread so badly.

[Sheila]

Hi Robin, If you don't mind Robin, would you explain why? what changed? are you married or single?



I can't answer for Robin, but I can answer for me from when I discovered my ex was a CDER
I was at first devastated by the lies, it then caused ne to question the start of our relationship and how good the sex was then .............we had a great sex life at the beginning and it trailed of drastically after he moved in and then resurged for a time after I found out :sad:...........it made me question whether he found me desirable or whether it was because he dressed before we met and I "GOT" the left over excitement:sad: ............ it made me wonder what else I had missed in our relationship, so I started questioning everything about it, I questioned his motives for being with me, I questioned my motives for being with him, I looked at our relationship under the microscope and unfortunately he and I did not come up good from that examination :sad:

There is a lot more to the ending of that relationship and it has been documented by me in posts in the past, am I glad now I found out .... yes I am, I would have hated to have gone a few more years and then found out :straightface:

[Round Robin]

Because now I have trust problems. Because now I view him differently. I try not to but I do...

[suchacutie]

As soon as we found Tina, my wife started to explain to me what it is like growing up as a girl. The socialization does often mold the thinking, and unlike what many people erroneously believe, the brain functions of men and women have been mapped and they are NOT the same. There are fundamental wiring differences.

However...to try to answer Lorileah's question...yes, I do think all people can learn about how the other gender approaches life/problems/relationships. In fact, I have come to believe that crossing the gender boundries is nothing but beneficial when trying to understand the other gender, whichever direction. Often the differences are subtle, but there are differences.

For example, how many men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it. Many men would consider this a total waste of time and get incredibly frustrated while considering the re-covering of old ground a waste. Knowing that the two genders may be coming at the issues from this two very different directions can be enlightening.

I still note that many men claim that it is not possible to understand how women think. Well, that's not true of course, but it points out that there are differences. Thiese differences can be understood and learned. I completely believe that those of us who attempt to understand how the other gender is mentally wired can do nothing but good for humanity.

just my :2c:

tina

[Lorileah]

...men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it. that does explain a lot of why CD's think that their SO's either don't understand or don't accept them. If that is true the women are just trying to talk it out. Maybe with time they can talk themselves through to acceptance?


I completely believe that those of us who attempt to understand how the other gender is mentally wired can do nothing but good for humanity.

Bravo. I think we see eye to eye on that. Those who wish to learn, seek more information; those who don't use the excuse "you are just a man (woman). I will never understand you, you don't make sense to me." Me? I just want to understand at least from MY perspective because I will never have anyone else's life experiences. I can never really see the world through their eyes. So I ask questions, usually hard questions :) Thanks Tina

[Sheila]

For example, how many men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it. Many men would consider this a total waste of time and get incredibly frustrated while considering the re-covering of old ground a waste. tina

Mmmmmm not sure that as a GG I or my friends would agree with you there .......... My friends and I believe that if a difficulty has arisen it requires fixing as soon as possible & we find that men tend to stand around looking at said problem from all sorts of different angles, then go over it again to see what they have missed, then talk about what could possibly go wrong in the mending of, and what actions they would take should they arise

in the meantime the women have gone in looked, picked up the tools and mended it themselves and are now on their third drink after having prepared a buffet for all present :D

if we are talking about discussing relationship problems men on the other hand in general (please note the word "GENERAL"), would rather run a damn mile, then stick their heads in the sand that discuss emotional relatuionship problems with their partners, and run twice as far and bury their heads twice as deep before discussing emotional/relationship problems with their mates in any depth .......... about the closest you will get ("in general") for them discussing it is "her indoors must be due on again, she is in a right mood" :brolleyes::brolleyes:

Please not I have made huge generalizations here, and the same can be said of some of us women :eek:

There are blokes who are good at talking, just as there are women who clam up when it comes to personal talking .... we are all different :)

[suchacutie]

Sheila,

Oh, this is so complicated, isn't it! I must admit my head is just so full of comflicting ideas about gender and thought. My wife is a very intelligent, highly educated woman who is as home in academics as she is when we are felling trees and planting crops. She's a terror with a sledge hammer and wedges! Everyone is an individual (me too :) ).

Having said that, there are general characteristics. I'm not making this up. There is a large literature of documentation about gender identity and gender characteristics. I just think we need to be aware of what is known by the broader community, and, if we are to be able to fit in (blend) as our other gender then we need to know what is generally expected of us.

I do think our actions, physical and emotional, send clues to those around us as to our gender identity, and the more we understand what is being perceived by others the better chance we have of fitting into the gender we are presenting.

There are of course women who don't like to "chit chat" (as my wife puts it), but many do, and it's an art I don't currently have! I also have tremendous trouble just talking about a subject without having to propose a course of action to solve the problem, but I'm working on it.

Bottom line, there are other modes of thought than just being a guy, and I want to learn what they are and be able to be comfortable in that environment. And that brings me back to the original thought of this thread. If you allow my premise that there are documented general modes of behavior for women in general, then there are general modes of behavior for men in general (again, there are exceptions, many of them). Thus, when a woman wants "her man", there are some expected norms. We guys don't have to slay the mastadon any more, but if we know our spouses well, we know what actions of ours comforts them, and I very much enjoy making my wife feel special and loved, as any gender!

tina

[christinek]

I am having a problem with the tables being turned on us part. This happens to us men everyday!

Look at women in general, when single they take care of themselves and wear nice things. Once married its jeans and a tee shirt and weight gain. I did not marry that but love her just the same. I married a sexy demur lady who is now a soccer mom. Heels and dresses are in the back of the closet and jeans, flipflops, sweatshirts up front and worn.

Women cross-dress everyday, don't wear makeup like a man, get short hair do's to make it easier like a man.

I understand the the sexual imagery part trust me all men do, as I look back at photos from 15 years ago we both look allot different and "LET GO". That is not sexy!

Ok my part here is to say you love the person and the heart not the clothes and physical appearance. If your relationship is one of skin and skin deep you are in trouble already and this will kill your relationship.

I love my wife very much and If something happened to her to change her physical appearance or disfigurement I would love her still.

[Sandra]

Women cross-dress everyday, don't wear makeup like a man, get short hair do's to make it easier like a man.




Oh please not that comment again. Look I don't crossdress, never have done and never will....and just because women don't wear makeup and have short hair does not mean they crossdress. :Angry3:

[christinek]

I don't know how difficult that is.

Women don't typically wear skirts or dresses anymore except to work, as soon as they get home the cloths come off.

OK so the jeans were tailored for women, so you have never cross-dressed. So then if "He" gets a dress from Suddenly Fem that is tailored to a man then that is also not cross-dressed?

[Cassiecd]

Yes dear, most of us can relate!

For me I could not hide anything from my wife. I cannot afford to lose her due to dishonesty. Yes, it is hard to come clean and tell her.....but for me it was the only path.

I am all man when she is home......for her and me. But I do have my girl time when she is out.

I hope u can make it work

[Sandra]

I don't know how difficult that is.

Women don't typically wear skirts or dresses anymore except to work, as soon as they get home the cloths come off.

OK so the jeans were tailored for women, so you have never cross-dressed. So then "He" get a dress from Suddenly Fem that is tailored to a man then that is also not cross-dressed?

To me it doesnt't matter where the clothes come from. If a person is wearing clothing normally associated with a person of their opposite gender, then they are cross dressed.

In today modern society clothing such as shirts and trousers are no longer deemed typical dress of either gender, however irrespective of the design of a skirt or dress it is associalted with the female gender, therefore a male wearing a dress is crossdressed.

Sorry if this is abit OT, but wanted to try and get a point across

[Lorileah]

Oh, this is so complicated, isn't it!

Yep :D


Having said that, there are general characteristics. I'm not making this up. There is a large literature of documentation about gender identity and gender characteristics.
There is large literature documentation on Big Foot and Aliens also. I don't think there is any definitive work on the brain function or size in gender. Otherwise the TS's here would be on a cake walk, MRI and doppler blood flow...yep you have a female brain in a man's body, we can "fix" that. And I can't buy that women are wired different yet (could be, if you know anything about neuroantomy, the wiring diagrams are messed up with crossing wires and switches). I have a small head so I probably have a small brain. Maybe that explains a lot about my ramblings but I don't think I am a girl in a guys body anymore. I am me :D. I buy the nurture part in how people react more than nature. The "rules" were set hundreds of years ago (in benefit of guys so they could hold power). But they aren't the best set of rules and evidently we need a 2/3rds majority to even bring said rules to the table. Honestly does it not make more sense to be a matriarchal society than a patriarchal one. You KNOW who your mother is. Daddy on the other hand could be many (not to get into moralistic things here, just biological). Not saying that we don't "rationalize" different, just saying we are taught to do that. Hard to prove because we don't get to pull children away from parents the day they are born and make groups who are exposed to different stimuli then compare data (I even bored myself there). That is why I think men can think like women and vice versa (not sure that is a good thing either).



I do think our actions, physical and emotional, send clues to those around us as to our gender identity, and the more we understand what is being perceived by others the better chance we have of fitting into the gender we are presenting.

I agree but still it is a learned behavior. Girls are taught to be girls boys are taught to be boys in most cases. Some of us either were allowed freedom to be who we are (my parents were like that even though I did not realize it at the time) or we rebel at a later date. I know plenty of women who display what was considered male behavior (especially on the road recently) and I find that rather attractive in an odd masochistic way :)



Bottom line, there are other modes of thought than just being a guy, and I want to learn what they are and be able to be comfortable in that environment. And that brings me back to the original thought of this thread. If you allow my premise that there are documented general modes of behavior for women in general, then there are general modes of behavior for men in general (again, there are exceptions, many of them). Thus, when a woman wants "her man", there are some expected norms. We guys don't have to slay the mastadon any more, but if we know our spouses well, we know what actions of ours comforts them, and I very much enjoy making my wife feel special and loved, as any gender!

You have learned well grasshopper. But as you point out that definition varies between women. Luckily I think we are attracted to women who we fit their definition of a man and vice versa. Otherwise the dating doesn't get far. To cross into another thread area on here, it is the fakeness and lying that gets us in trouble. Presenting as something we are not which of course we cannot sustain

[suchacutie]

Thank you for this thread!!!!

Ok, I will search the literature for documented biological differences in brain function between genetic men and woman. Now I do understand that even this has chromosomal issues, but I will look to document at least some of what is out there.

And, I totally agree with Lorileah that men and women can be taught to think in various patterns. The next time my wife smiles and says, "..now if you had spent your childhood as a girl, you would already know this..." I will smile back thinking of this thread (and other things).

I guess that in the long run since my goal is to be completely mentally functional as Tina, I'm not sure it matters if the thought patterns are learned or inate, as long as I can learn them. Rereading the give and take in this thread it occurs to me that we seem generally to be in the same camp. I am in a minority here in that I did NOT start dressing at an early age, and I was a fully indoctrinated male until just a few years ago, notwithstanding my daughter's comment when she saw my high-school yearbook picture: "Gee dad, today you'd be called a "pretty boy"". Hmmm...right.

Nonetheless, I'm looking at a huge learning curve of female ideas and knowledge! My wife has suggested that Tina is at least out of what would have been Tina's childhood concerning learned behavior, and seems to be at the adolescent stage. Just yesterday we were looking online at tops for her and she was specific about which type of sleeve she wanted in the top. I had to just shake my head to which she smiled and started to explain the differences of putting sleeves into tops! Sometimes she expects a bit too much of Tina's learning curve :) There is a lifetime of knowledge and experiences I'm trying to pack into as short a time as possible!

Ok, so why am I here typing and not studying????

:)

tina

[christinek]

To me it doesnt't matter where the clothes come from. If a person is wearing clothing normally associated with a person of their opposite gender, then they are cross dressed.

In today modern society clothing such as shirts and trousers are no longer deemed typical dress of either gender, however irrespective of the design of a skirt or dress it is associalted with the female gender, therefore a male wearing a dress is crossdressed.

Sorry if this is abit OT, but wanted to try and get a point across

I think that is so BULL,

It has holes all thru it, its OK because society says so now "no longer deemed typical dress" and equality and all but OH wait you cant do it. If looking at the numbers on this forum we make up a bit of society. Who were the fashion police that decided this, oh wait it was women??

It just seems so one sided to me.

[sfwarbonnet]

At the barbershop last week, he noted that my wife's hair was syled more feminine. She said that her previous "scratch & go" style was because she was "the man in the house". Guess I'll let my hair grow so I have a unisex style that is appropriaie as either a "boy" or "girl"! so when she is sans bra & makeup and wearing the pants, I can wear a bra, makeup, and s dress!

[Lorileah]

In today modern society clothing such as shirts and trousers are no longer deemed typical dress of either gender, however irrespective of the design of a skirt or dress it is associalted with the female gender, therefore a male wearing a dress is crossdressed.



Please tell me you didn't really say that. Isn't that tantamount to "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine also?" How would you have responded had someone 60 years ago said "women who wear slacks are crossdressers"? It was te way people thought back then. But women worked past that an made it as you say the norm. You are basically saying that men should not or cannot work toward that same goal?

Like I said before 40 years of working toward acceptance and tolerance shot down like a clay pigeon (Ok overtly masculine reference there)

[christinek]

Cheers Lorileah,

If you look at this forum women are our biggest critic and biggest hinderance in society. It is not other men. I keep seeing "my stuff thrown out, Tables switched, bait and switch" from the very part of our society that fought for equality and women's rights. Again over and over I see a very one sided mind on this.

I agree allot of pain and suffering has ensued on both sides and some are jerks about it and not considerate and tons of posts on how you make me feel. For some it is bad! But not for all. I do see allot of compassionate GG but geez. Again I hope your SO has more love for you than skin deep.

[Karen564]

Ok, Now I think I've seen everything!!!!

Let me get this straight, Your a man that Wants to dress as a Woman AND now wants to change your thought/thinking patterns to think like a Woman.????
Your not happy with just dressing up??

The only way your really going to accomplish this 100% is to get a brain transplant from a woman...
Sorry, it hasn't been done yet.. & never will...

There are some things in this life that just cant be done..

The best you'll be able to do is Mimic a Woman, and maybe look like a woman, but you will never BE a Woman..
Your Man with a Mans brain & a Mans Body

And you dont need to look up any documentation about women's behavior, just open your eyes and look around you, over 50% of the population are woman, cant get any more real-life data than that!!

I'm no Brain expert, but I know this,,,,,
The difference between a Male Brain & a Female Brain are a little more complicated than what your suggesting, there is a Biological/Neurological difference between the two, it's the same brain matter, but our brains function differently because of the way were wired & the chemistry/hormones within in it that make it function differently..
True, there are certain things that are a learned behaviour due to the social environmental upbringing, but most of that is just a reinforced behaviour, it really does come very natural based on your brain gender..
Of course some boys are more effeminate, and some girls are tomboys..

As an example, I am a MTF TS, I was born a male & brought up as a male to do male things, yet my brain always had a conflict within it telling me this was just all wrong for me, why is that??, well, because I was born with more of a females brain, rather than a males brain, and because of that, I had suffered my entire life as long as I can remember living with conflict, confusion, depression, you name it, because none of that male upbringing came natural, it was all a learned behaviour for me, and when I did or said what was considered something a girl would normally say or do because it felt like the more natural thing to do, I was quickly corrected/aligned either by my parents and or peers to stop that behaviour and do something to match my gender as a male.
When it came to my puberty, it was like a living h e ll for me, because that's when I saw the girls developing & not me, leaving me feeling stuck in the wrong body at that point gave me severe depression..
It goes on & on..
In short, I wouldn't wish this on anyone!!!, and just wish I was born with a males brain to match my male body..

But I have no choice, I need to change my body to align with my brain, because I can not change my brain..

So it rather boggles my mind why anyone would purposely want to act or emulate the opposite gender they were born as if they are content with their born gender enough not to physically change it to the other..
Just as I find it strange why any GG would want there man not be a man, I just find it a bit strange..

Personally, I think many woman here just tolerate their mans need to play dress up, and if there man stopped dressing, it would be fine by them..I seriously doubt they would want a divorce because their husband voluntarily stopped CDing...
I spoke up on this thread only to support KayC, because I thought it was ridiculous for her to have to try to explain herself why she would want a man to look, smell, act like a man if that's what she wanted to be intimate with a man, just because she was not attracted to the same gender & she is a hetero woman, and happens to be attracted to men, not other girls, is not a bad thing in my book, so I saw nothing wrong with that,,
I only see it as normal biological behaviour, such as opposite gender attraction..

How many Male CDers would honestly like it if there wives CD'd in the bedroom before any intimacy??? Would you have the same feelings & attraction to her dressed as a guy in bed??? Just put the shoe on the other foot & think about it..I mean Really think about it..honestly..

Anyway, good luck to all that want to learn how to think like a woman, let me know how you make out with that..

This is just my point of view, and not meant to be disrespectful to anyone here in any way..

My apologies for the long post..

:hugs:

[StephanieH]

To the point of the original post, welcome aboard, you're among friends. If I were in your heels, I wouldn't be so much concerned with how she'll react to what you tell her as to what she's going to think about you NOT having told her this before.

No one likes to find out their spouse has been keeping secrets, especially one this big and for that long a period of time. I think she's going to have a much bigger problem worrying why you didn't tell her before now than she is about the fact that you like to dress up in frilly things. It's human nature to suspect the worst, and most ladies don't do a lot of research into our little peculiarity until they're pressed to do so.

Definitely tell her, in my opinion, and be as open as possible about why you haven't told her already. Give her room, get her some reading material, and be ready to reassure her that you're still you. She's known you and loved you all these years, it's not like you're suggesting a sex change operation or have done something crazy like becoming an Amway salesman. If she loves you, she isn't going to throw you out, she's just going to be confused for a little while.

My wife studied on the matter for about six months and I worked with her, talking a lot, getting her some books, and letting her read stuff here. She came to embrace this side of me and we both quite enjoy it now. I am the same man she married 95% of the time (only w/panties) and 5% of the time I get to dress and be Randi. Both ways, I'm still her husband and we still enjoy a fantastic relationship. It pays major dividends to be honest, so go for it. If she finds out on her on later, from what I've read here though the years, that seldom ends well.

Good luck and God bless! :)

[lucytv2003]

I'm in my early thirties and am really just posting to get this out of my system. After a few serious relationships with women and twenty years of CDing, I can admit to myself that the urge to be a girl is just too strong for a healthy relationship with a woman to be feasible. Maybe some people can make it work, but I doubt I could, and I would rather not cause the kind of hurt and emotional carnage that a failed attempt would create. The one time I had a girlfriend who was accepting, at first I was ecstatic, but then it started to fade and I realised that while she was accepting, the surprising thing for me was that I actually wasn't. I didn't want her to have to 'tolerate' that side of me. Deep down, she wanted a man and it tired me out to meet that expectation. (Maybe it's too much information, but:) Even the act of having sex reinforced my own masculinity in my mind, and required a lot of concentration.

Being my feminine self is so much less exhausting. I can think straight. I enjoy just going for walks or going to bars and clubs and dancing, or shopping and just being me. While I'm sure I could find a girl who would 'tolerate' that side of me as some kind of fetish, it isn't a fetish at all. Sooner or later, she'd begin to question what was more important to me - being a girl or being a boyfriend. She wouldn't get the answer she wants. The same goes for being a husband or being a father. They'd only be superficial roles that I'd be maintaining so that I could live a 'normal' life, but the strain beneath the mask would be so intense I don't even want to imagine it. Having to hide this, or keep it for special permitted occasions would drive me insane. The odd thing is, living alone, knowing I can do this whenever I like - I actually do it less.

I'm single and fairly solvent, so I'll probably invest in facial feminisation surgery next year, when I'm off work for a few months. I'll have just enough work done to make me androgynous enough to live in both worlds - male at work and female at play. Not perfection. Just enough so that I can go shopping in daylight and not be read, then go out on public transport to a nightclub without getting rude comments.

As an example of how powerful this side of me really is: When I was in my teens, I fell in love with a very feminine, intelligent girl I was 'good friends' with - but who wanted nothing to do with me 'in that way'. At the time I obsessed over her and thought about her many times over the years. I dated girls that reminded me of her, and sometimes used to dream we were together. To my great surprise, she recently got in touch again. She seemed quite interested in me all of a sudden, now that we had both matured and I was a fairly good-looking, successful man. I had fantasised about that for years when I was an awkward, ugly teenager, even practised what I would say to her if she ever came to me when we were adults. So I had to make a decision whether to pursue it or not, and in the end I decided to let it go. I just ignored her calls and never spoke to her again.

[Lorileah]

Ok, Now I think I've seen everything!!!!

Let me get this straight, Your a man that Wants to dress as a Woman AND now wants to change your thought/thinking patterns to think like a Woman.????
Your not happy with just dressing up??



and with that pious and self righteous comment, I am done here. Not being a TS there is no way I could ever understand female brain function :brolleyes:

[suchacutie]

ah....was that meant to be a joke?

Do you think that my feminine self, Tina, is just a facade? Do you really think she is something I hang clothes and makeup upon? Do you really think that a semi-intelligent human being cannot learn what is not initially hard-wired into the brain? And, how can you be so sure that both sides are not wired into my brain (my wife actually thinks they are, meanwhile).

Tina is very important. She is a piece of femininity that I could not have imagined was there only a few short years ago. Yes, looking back there were signs, but I chose not to see them. When I transition to her, it is her. While being Tina, if my male-self life intrudes, it is a shock and one that takes a few minutes to flush away again so that I can get back to her. I don't mix my two selves and really don't wish to. But to tell me that I can't live on both sides of the gender barrier in all seriousness and commitment is just outrageous.

Having said that, I guess we have proven the point of this thread. There really is a difference in the general approach to life of the two genders. Those of us who wish to remain in a marriage/relationship that was consecrated as one male and one female certainly need to be aware of these potential gender-based issues. Whether we want them to be there or not, they are the elephant in the room, and will come to find us if we don't find them first and deal with them appropriately. Considering how strong a part Tina is for me, I fully realize just how potentially difficult it can be.

my last word in this thread.

tina

[Allsteamedup]

Well KayC you tried very hard to explain. Thanks for that. It surprised me that you were expected to understand an alternative viewpoint, but that yours was not accepted at all.
When your partner is fully dressed with all the trimmings your perception of them is altered. They may not like it that way, but that's how many of us feel. When they then dress as a man it doesn't mean that you see them as a man straightaway. It's often an uncomfortable place to be.
When we put on our clothes it's not a peformance. All we do is get dressed, do our hair and skincare and a little appropriate makeup. It doesn't take hours and we are ready for our roles- mom, nurse, secretary, helper, visitor, shopper, whatever. We are recognisable as who we are, not pretending to be somebody else.
A man dressed up as a woman is not a man. Sorry. Uncomfortable truth.
Then you dress back and still smell of woman- make-up remover, perfume etc.
A man, your man, has a particular smile and gestures. It just doesn't work when you are 'dressed'.
Any clearer?

[Karen564]

ah....was that meant to be a joke?


No joke was intended..


I really dont care what either you or Tina does, it has no relevance in my life..

But it does sound like Tina may become a problem if she gets any stronger..and before you know it, you may find yourself on hormones & in the TS section one day..:heehee:

[suchacutie]

Karen,

I assume you mean well, so I will take your thoughts as being in my best interest.

Having said that, those who have seen my posts here understand that I enjoy being male. What I'm beginning to understand is that the femininity that is Tina is intense. I have two intense parts. Now that I'm saying it in this way, I'm much less surprised.

I happen to be an intense person. I move from one intensity to another in life. I am a rather accomplished (most of the time) amateur violinist and while I'm in performanance there is no other profession on the planet. Most of the time I am a chemist and intensely involved in my research and teaching. At home we have a massive garden, heat with wood (we're in the northeast), and the list just goes on and on. Now Tina has arrived. One more intensity, but an important one. Will I compromise my maleness? No. I made a commitment to my wife 37 years ago and I will keep it...and I enjoy keeping it!

So, thank you for the warning, and I will take it to heart. Tina will likely grow stronger, at least until we understand her. Then she may grow weaker...I have no idea...but that's ok.

I hope that your journey will be equally rewarding.

tina

p.s. okok so this is my postscript last word :)

[KayC]

All steamed up,
I'm not sure I entirely agree with:
"A man dressed up as a woman is not a man. Sorry. Uncomfortable truth.
Then you dress back and still smell of woman- make-up remover, perfume etc.
A man, your man, has a particular smile and gestures. It just doesn't work when you are 'dressed'."
BTW, if you find that my viewpoint seems to change from week to week...that's because it is...I am learning and changing it seems daily.
It has been less than two months since I realized my SO is a CDer...by that time we already had plans to marry. I was in shock at first, but he directed me here shortly and I began reading, reading, reading. Little by little as all of you began to educate me, I found my entire thinking changing, not only to one of acceptance, but to full embrace. However...he doesn't seem to be accepting his own CDing...he's only "dressed" three times on Halloween each time. I'm convinced he is a CDer for a number of reasons. But it seems like the closer I embraced him/her in their entirety...the further he pulled her back. He has not let me see her dressed, he's only shown me pictures. I tried to get him to let me make him up yesterday and he abruptly pulled back. So many of you say you want supportive GGs...well I am one but for all the good it seems to be! I realize I have to let him deal with his issues and acceptance in his own time frame...I've tried my best to let him know he's safe with me and I want him to be healthy, happy, and whole...but now it's up to him. I want very much to meet "her", I almost envy all of those who get to share in this with their mate...but I'm excluded.
I guess what was once a real concern of mine...that of being attracted to him while he looked like a her, isn't much of an issue with me anymore...I think I'd just welcome the opportunity to see how it goes.

Thank you all for your posts, you've all been very open and candid, I realize this is a touchy subject for so many, and it makes me appreciate your openness all the more!

PS...when all is said and done, my SO is the most wonderful person in the world...I am so glad I found this site, it has taught me above all, that it's not the gender that is the most important thing, but the person inside. It's kind of ironic though...I hear so much talk about clothing, makeup, nails, heels, wigs, etc...all of the trappings, yet really, as discussed in another thread, femininity is more about interaction and who we are than the clothes we wear...although when we feel feminine, it seems to make us more apt to want to wear girly things.

[Sandra]

I think that is so BULL,

It has holes all thru it, its OK because society says so now "no longer deemed typical dress" and equality and all but OH wait you cant do it. If looking at the numbers on this forum we make up a bit of society. Who were the fashion police that decided this, oh wait it was women??

It just seems so one sided to me.



Please tell me you didn't really say that. Isn't that tantamount to "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine also?" How would you have responded had someone 60 years ago said "women who wear slacks are crossdressers"? It was te way people thought back then. But women worked past that an made it as you say the norm. You are basically saying that men should not or cannot work toward that same goal?

Like I said before 40 years of working toward acceptance and tolerance shot down like a clay pigeon (Ok overtly masculine reference there)

You know what I'll just shut the f***up shall I because as usual on here if a GG responed she's shot down


I do see allot of compassionate GG but geez. Again I hope your SO has more love for you than skin deep.

If you are refering to my SO then I will let her come here and answer that


I'm done with the lot of you :Angry3: :Angry3:

[Deborah Jane]

Who were the fashion police that decided this, oh wait it was women??


No!!!
Strangely enough these rules were put in place by men over generations, not by women who for many years had no say in how our society was run. Women earned the right to dress as they please by fighting against these rules, in the same way that we could if some of us weren't so bloody paranoid about what other people would say. [And yes I include myself in that statement]
If we were to make a stand and fight for what we want, then maybe, just maybe, we could go out dressed however we please. But if all we are going to do is argue among ourselves on the internet, we won't get anywhere and deserve to be trapped imprisoned in our own closets!!

The fight for our freedom will not be won from behind a computer, so I along with many others are getting out there and saying......

This is who I am, I have the right to dress as I please, it is not illegal and if you don't like it....Tough!!

Yes it's scary, yes I know the consequences, but I also refuse to be trapped for the rest of my life unable and too scared to be myself!!

[Sheila]

I think that is so BULL,

you have the right to your thoughts just as the rest of us do


It has holes all thru it, its OK because society says so now "no longer deemed typical dress" and equality and all but OH wait you cant do it. If looking at the numbers on this forum we make up a bit of society.

yeah your right you do make up a portion of society, so if you want society to change damn well get out there, make yourself visible as a TG person every day as Sandra's Partner does, she dresses in her gender role 24/7 and has done for several years, she got her current employment in her gender dress and holds it that way, "SHE" IS PUTTING HER MONEY WHERE HER MOUTH IS, she is fighting daily for equality in every way by being who she is and not hiding behind a door whining about lack of opportunity & bias against the TG commonity "WAY TO GO NIGELLA"


Who were the fashion police that decided this, oh wait it was women?? It just seems so one sided to me.

No I think you will find for decades males controlled what women wore and even today many many of the designers are male, there by "controlling" what is deemed to be fashion on a seasonal basis, but the majority design for women .. again "control" by male over women all be it by default



If you look at this forum women are our biggest critic and biggest hindrance in society. It is not other men.

Then try looking in the real world and I think you will find it is males who are your biggest Critics and threat, and whom most of you fear, many tales on here are about telling female relatives first not male why is that I wonder ? maybe cos we are approachable, compassionate and understanding, and maybe because you are looking for allies when it comes to telling the male members of your families and circles :doh: did you not think of that. Take your rose tinted glasses off and go look at the world in reality:Angry3::Angry3:


I keep seeing "my stuff thrown out, Tables switched, bait and switch" from the very part of our society that fought for equality and women's rights. Again over and over I see a very one sided mind on this.

Owwwwww so you don't see the "I just found out my husband crossdresses after X amount of married years, you don't see the heartbreaking calls for help from the newbies trying to come to terms with this, you don't see the mess the pink fog makes to relationships, the changes to who and what we can talk about with all this, you don't see the struggle these newbies have to come to terms with the fact that their partner lied to them for all those years, you don't see their pain ........... you blind self centered moron:Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:


I agree allot of pain and suffering has ensued on both sides and some are jerks about it and not considerate and tons of posts on how you make me feel. For some it is bad! But not for all. I do see allot of compassionate GG but geez. Again I hope your SO has more love for you than skin deep.

Listen, they as a couple have buckets of love, compassion and immense respect for each other, they are two of the nicest people in the world, both are approachable, both will go out of their way to help anybody with anything at anytime, not just in the wide world, but they do so much as individuals and a couple for this community ................ they took me and my Ex under their wings 4 long years ago, met up with us and despite my ex and I separating they and I have remained friends, in fact more than that, Sandra, I consider my little Sis & by default Nigella, my little sis-in-law, don't you damn well dare attack two peeps who do as much for this community as
they do.

[TSchapes]

I can't believe the direction this thread took.

Anyway Pernille, she says she wants a man. And as cross-dressers we have to be sensitive to that point. If we are going to dress 24/7 you would run into a problem. But if you listen to your wife and negotiate as to when and where you can express your feminine side, you should be able to come out to her and share this side to her.

You worry about being selfish, but aren't you also being selfish by keeping Pernille away from her. :2c:

I know you will be able to tell her and as far as I am concerned all TG people should tell the people closest to them. IMHO.

-Tracy

[Karen564]

Karen,

I assume you mean well, so I will take your thoughts as being in my best interest.




Yes Tina,
I did mean well, I always have, even though some may not be able to see it that way, sometimes the pink fog their in gets a bit to thick around them to see through it..
I'm a realist, and try to keep it real without lots of fluff, the world can be very cold & cruel at times, so sometimes I step in to bring it back down to reality before they hurt themselves, but most importantly, not hurt the others around them, but I have never forced anyone to do or not do as they want to, everyone has their own personal reasons..
I didn't come here with in intent to hurt anyone's feelings or judge anyone for what they do, nor force my thoughts down their throats, I know I dont like it when people do that to me, but sometimes words get crossed or people misinterpret what was written which I have no control over ..

I can fully relate to what your saying about being intense, I'm the same way & seems to be common trait among most of us here, although I call it compulsive behaviour & allows us to excel at what were doing at the time..

I was was with the same woman for 26 years, 20 of those in marriage, and have two teenage daughters that still love me very much, so I also know about commitment & also about living in two genders at the same time, I never broke my vows, she did, but in the end am much happier for it..

Peace & Best Wishes..:hugs:

Hopefully, this thread can now get back on tract..:battingeyelashes:

[Tamara Croft]

This thread is done, I'm disgusted with so many of you on this board, to quote each and every one of you with what you've posted in this thread that has upset so many people would taking me all flipping day, so I'm locking it and if you don't like it, then you shouldn't have posted!