why oh why

[karen68]

2 qestions really:
why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay.

why is it that in todays society most people accept gays but laugh if you say you are a cd.:sad:
I would love to know what you think.
Karen

[PaulaJaneThomas]

I suppose if you go around telling people that you're a little plastic disk they're going to jump to all sorts of strange conclusions. Why don't you simply tell them you're gender variant?

[Kate Simmons]

Mostly because the silent inference in their minds is that it puts a man in a diminished capacity. That and the fact that the media makes a joke of it or ridicules it and in that respect not too many take it seriously or the people who do it. For the most part they are the objects of derision due to a lack of understanding.

[Sarah Michelle]

I believe the general public simply assumes that the extension of dressing and wanting to appear feminine is to want to be loved by a man ergo; gay

Gay is becoming more publicly acceptable because of the huge impact of the various lesbian/gay lobby groups and the years of work they have done. Cross-dressing and trans-gender issues have been mostly over-looked in favor of the larger more vocal groups.

Cross-dressing isn't even clearly understood by the medical/psychological community yet as you can see when you read some of the studies on the subject.

And by the by; there is a significant effort underway to get gender identity disorder/syndrome and gender dysphoria out of the DSM [the "bible" of psychiatric disorders] as was done for gays and lesbians in the past. The revised edition is due out in 2010 and the lobby groups are hard at work now.

[Rebecca Jayne]

Excuse the metaphor, but
We Cutting Edge...yes
Ahead of our time....YES
Expressive...yes
Emotional...yes
appreciative of others...yes
We cry...yes


We are the male model others wish they could be!

[Granny Gray]

Simple. The overwhelming preponderance of the general population is IGNORANT for the most part and assumes only what have some knowledge about, although that knowing it self is probably both skimpy and unreliable. Granny

[Laura_Stephens]

Why? the average person in this country can tell you who won the last 5 years of "American Idol" yet has no idea who their two U.S. Senators are. In short, this country has become populated by millions of idiots.

[JennyS.]

I also think part of it lies with some of us as well. I was looking at some of the Pride photos from my city and the only CD's in the pics were very flamboyent, flashy. It was obvious they weren't trying to 'blend in' like many of us want. Rainbow colored hair, tu-tu's, over-done makeup. I beleive that is the image that the general public thinks of if you were to tell them you are a CD. I hope I don't sound like I'm singleing out those CD's, but, I don't see many pics of the members here dressing like that. I understand that most that dress in that manner are entertainers, but most of us don't dress in that fashion. I could be wrong, but I think that is the image that the general public has of us.
After reading hundreds of threads, thousands of posts from dozens upon dozens of members, it seems to me that most of us here do want to blend in and not cause a spectacle. But, to each her own. That being said, the general public doesn't understand us and the majority of them DON'T want to understand.
Hope I don't offend anyone.

[karen68]

I also think part of it lies with some of us as well. I was looking at some of the Pride photos from my city and the only CD's in the pics were very flamboyent, flashy. It was obvious they weren't trying to 'blend in' like many of us want. Rainbow colored hair, tu-tu's, over-done makeup. I beleive that is the image that the general public thinks of if you were to tell them you are a CD. I hope I don't sound like I'm singleing out those CD's, but, I don't see many pics of the members here dressing like that. I understand that most that dress in that manner are entertainers, but most of us don't dress in that fashion. I could be wrong, but I think that is the image that the general public has of us.
After reading hundreds of threads, thousands of posts from dozens upon dozens of members, it seems to me that most of us here do want to blend in and not cause a spectacle. But, to each her own. That being said, the general public doesn't understand us and the majority of them DON'T want to understand.
Hope I don't offend anyone.

hi jenny yes I think you are right most of us are not the flamboyant people that dress in that style but just want to be who we are. I don't know if I am right but most of the flamboyant cd's are gay anyway. Karen

[JennyS.]

hi jenny yes I think you are right most of us are not the flamboyant people that dress in that style but just want to be who we are. I don't know if I am right but most of the flamboyant cd's are gay anyway. Karen

True. And that's why the general public thinks all of us are gay.

[Nigella]

Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum. The General Public get their information from many ways, and the WWW is one of the most prolific.

Type in any search words in relation to crossdressing and more often than not this forum will appear on the first page. The main part of the forum, that is the "Male to Female" section is open to the public. They can read all you have to say on the subject, they get to see your avatars, and I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) any pictures posted in this part of the forum.

I think we speak volumes when it comes to portraying the sterotypical perception of a crossdresser.

The more that ALLour community speaks out in public for the right to be recognised, the shorter the time will be before someone will legislate for crossdressers.

But then again I have been 24/7 for 5 years and have had no problems in "doing my thing" in all that time.


Why is it that GG's, gay or not, can wear mens clothing all they want and no one ever gives it a second thought? After all, it is crossdressing, is it not?

If I was you I would stay well out of this minefield.

[Toni_Lynn]

My own opinion on this is that we are our own worst enemy. Look at who our heroes are, those things and people who are the most highly promoted in the CD community: people like Rupaul, Grayson Parry, films like Priscilla Queen of the Dessert, et al. Shouldn't we rather be carrying a banner for those who express and carry their gender variance with quiet dignity such as Renee Richards, Jan Morris, Wendy Carlos, or George Sand and Billy Tipton (OMG - you mean I have to think about MTFs!)?

Just a thought

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[sherri52]

Small minded men of yesteryear started the rumor of men in dresses are gay. Today it is omly the teaching brought done from thier fathers etc,etc. Modern men of today are still slow to learn. It is the cd's that now understand women ( to a degree ), long before all the others. We know who we are. Congratulations ladies.

[Di]

ANSWER THE OP'S QUESTION AND STOP TAKING IT OFF TOPIC

per forum rules STOP WITH THE COMMENTS ON WHAT WOMAN WEAR
Posts or threads ridiculing other members or the manner in which they express themselves, This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership dress,

And stop your arguing:Angry3::Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:

AND INCASE YOU FORGOT WHAT THE QUESTIONS WERE:Angry3::Angry3::Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:

why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay.


Either have a discussion about the above questions or move on.It is not about your sex life or what others wear!

[karen68]

Thanks di people do that don't they :hugs:

[TxKimberly]

I hardly find it surprising that folks jump to that conclusion. WE know that gender and sex are different because we are so close to the issue that most of us have had good reasons to learn this. Your average Joe has never had to consider the difference . . .

[borbiusle]

I blame the media mostly. Every time you turn on the TV and watch an episode of Cops or some random show/movie involving prisons, 9.999/10 the dude dressed up as a woman is going around prostituting himself to other men. Even a good older female friend of mine who supports my cross-dressing thought I was a closet gay for the first 4 years we were friends. It's irritating :Angry3:

[TSchapes]

2 qestions really:
why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay.

I don't know about most. The ones that aren't informed think that. Why not tell them they're wrong. I know I do...


why is it that in todays society most people accept gays but laugh if you say you are a cd.:sad:
I would love to know what you think.
Karen

Nobody has laughed at me when I told them I am transgendered and a CD. Again, I don't know what you mean by most. If you don't like the way people think, quit whining and tell them you're CD and proud. Maybe that's the difference between gays and TG. More of them have stood up for themselves.

It ain't goin' get fixed by osmosis ladies... :Angry3:

-Tracy

[MJ]

why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay.

i feel they don't mean to be hurtful when they ask that
gay's tend to dress up and gay people have been out way longer than those who cd. so it is only logical they would ask are you gay

why is it that in todays society most people accept gays but laugh if you say you are a cd.:sad:

because cd are still scared to come out in to the real world you can't change the world from your closet

[sometimes_miss]

This isn't rocket science. Women's attire is primarily geared to sexually attract males. So, if you go through the trouble to appear as female as possible, wearing only female attire, then it is assumed that you, like women, are doing so to attract men. Men who go through a lot of trouble to be sexually attractive to other men are, logically, assumed to be gay. If you're not sure of this, consider the reverse. A girl cuts her very hair into a very short, male style (let's say, a crew cut). Uses bandages to flatten her breasts. Puts on a false mustache. Wears a men's suit, which is carefully tailored to avoid showing any 'female' curves. Wears men's shoes and socks. Would anyone really believe that she is doing so to attract a guy? Nope.

[mklinden2010]

Sometimes_miss expresses what most people, in my experience, seem to be trying to say as they first wrap their brains around the idea that a male would WANT to dress as a female - there has be "a" reason. It's just "normal" to seek a logical explanation; using what you know when you have to start dealing with some new reality.

Echoing what a few others have said in these posts, I find it a lot easier just to allow, "Well, I may be further along the gay spectrum than a lot of people. I mean, I sooooo get it that you can want to be and do something that the majority of people find odd... But, after all, there it is, right? And, after all, somebody has to make up the far ends of the bell curve... Know what I mean?"

I just replace their logic with some of mine. Since most people just want "an" answer and not "the" answer, it's enough to help them out and get them off their big worry that it's all up to them to "approve/disapprove" the card combination they were just dealt.

They "go," at first, with what they think they know. Agree with them AND then help them along to a new understanding of what's going on in the world. People "get it" a lot faster that "it's just a thang" and we then all go on to other things.

If you want to meld this into the earlier posts about people being ignorant, that's fine. All I'm saying is that they are mentally lazy too (the cause of their "ignorance"?) - and appreciate a short cut.

This is all good news for CDers, etc. because if people were more alert, more active, and really cared more, you might not be able to pretty much do anything you're willing to work at...

People will get out of the way of someone who knows what they want, how to get it, and, will do the work to achieve it.

In fact, they'll wind up congratulating you at times, in spite of themselves.

Why?

Everybody loves a winner.

[Andy66]

Until recently I knew several gay and one bi crossdresser, and NO straight ones at all that I'm aware of. If some people (you know who you are) go out of their way to hide, can you really blame the public for not knowing they exist?

[Karren H]

Don't really know....

Don't really care..... what people think

[CDgirlfriend]

People think CD are gay because they immediately think about transgenders. I used to be like that (I'm a girl). A few months ago I would have never imagined that a straight guy could actually like wearing women clothes.

And they laugh because they don't understand it.

[Blaire]

why is it that in todays society most people accept gays but laugh if you say you are a cd.

What I think? Will and Grace. Probably did more to provide exposure leading to acceptance which in turn leads to a "so what?" attitude.


Why? the average person in this country can tell you who won the last 5 years of "American Idol" yet has no idea ______

Case in point, and the sentence doesn't even need to be finished.

Seriously, TV is the mainstream media. Get a multi-season TV sitcom that features "normal" CDs doing "normal" things like getting up and going to work every day and dealing with daily troubles, and CDing will be more accepted, nearly instantly.

[erickka]

Why? the average person in this country can tell you who won the last 5 years of "American Idol" yet has no idea who their two U.S. Senators are. In short, this country has become populated by millions of idiots.

And also folks that are narrow minded, shallow, and believe everything they hear without getting the real facts.

[Vicky_Scot]

Maybe because we are tagged onto the gay community by society (what ever that is because I am part of society) because no one knows where to put us and we all know that society would collapse if they can not label everyone and every group.

Maybe because we frequent gay clubs and bars because we feel safe there.

But this is the biggest myth when it comes to crossdressers.

Xx Vicky xX

[Satrana]

Cultural ignorance.

All gays crossdress.....all CDs are gay.

Lay people have never had a reason to question their fundamental belief that gender and sexual orientation are the same thing.

This assumption is even found in the gay community. In many parts of Asia and South America for example crossdressing is a major component of the gay lifestyle. It just seems logical that if you want to be attractive to men then you should beautify yourself the same way women do. What better way to advertise what you are after. The message is clear to everyone.

Some gays believe CDs are just gays in denial. If a gay person cannot understand the difference, you should not expect lay people to do better.

I have said previously that if CDs want to be understood for what we are then we will have to face up to the prospect of divorcing ourselves from the GLB organizations in order to create a separate identity. We need to send a clear simple message to society that we are not about sexual orientation.

[gemsay32]

2 qestions really:
why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay.

why is it that in todays society most people accept gays but laugh if you say you are a cd.:sad:
I would love to know what you think.
Karen

Because... If it's not somehow sexual in nature then they have no explanation for it other than that you're somehow a woman that was born in a mans body or vice versa. To be honest, I don't understand it and I have worn womans clothing. I don't identify myself as a transvestite because it's something I only do for sexual pleasure. IMHO, true transvestitism is something more than sexual. It's strange.

Sexual reasons are understandable. There're so many fetishes that it's impossible to identify all of them. It makes about as much sense that a heterosexual guy might like to touch or wear or see womans clothing for the pleasure as it would be for someone to feel intense pleasure when they wear leather gloves, boots, and tight cowboy/biker leather pants in a thick cowhide jacket. Some people love doing that - but i'll never understand why they find it so pleasurable (this is an actual fetish that I know someone has). Nor will they find it easy to understand why I like shiny/smooth things.

[Sheila]

why is it that most people think that when you say your a cd they automatically think that you are gay. .... Karen

Have you seen the amount of posts on here alone claiming to "want to be with a man but only when dressed ?" or " I want to be treated like the lady by a man" or any variation on the topic ..... that may give some of them a clue as to how some think

[Stitch]

I suppose if you go around telling people that you're a little plastic disk they're going to jump to all sorts of strange conclusions. Why don't you simply tell them you're gender variant?

Oh god, that reminds me.

When my partner first came out to me he said "I've got something very important to tell you..... I'm a TV"

I looked at him and burst into giggles, I honestly thought he was trying to be cute. :doh: Then when he looked creastfallen I had to dig to what else he could possibly mean. Did he mean TB?! That had me worried.

Note to crossdressers: Its best not to use the abbreviations on people not yet familar with the lifestyle.

Anyway, I don't think people mean to be nasty about it. It can be quite hard for people not used to cross dressers to wrap their heads around. I realise that not all Cross dressers dress to attract men, but there are some that do. I can see why people may make that assumption, even if the majority of CDs are hetro.

[KarenCDFL]

Unfortunately, you just have to give society time.

!00 plus years ago, African Americans Slaves were not considered "A Whole Person" as far as the US Government was concerned when doing the Census and figuring out Income Tax.

And after that, Women could not vote and had less civil rights than Men.

So here we are at the end of the first Decade of the 21st Century and in most of the world both African Americans and Women are full citizens and have equal rights along with Men. (Not going to get into racial issues).

So now to answer your question, it is simply going to be a matter of time when Gender differences will no longer be an issue and no one will even think to question who you are and what your gender/sexuality is.

I just wish I could live long enough to see that.

So have Patience young Jedi!

[KayC]

I'd have to say ignorance. One of the first questions a GG might ask upon learning her man is a CDer is "are you gay?" "are you going to leave me for someone" "are you going to change gender"? In other words, "How is this going to affect me and what do I need to prepare for?" As we begin to get answers to our questions and learn about CDing it helps alleviate some of our fears...and in some cases, it might give us new ones. One of the good things I've gleaned in all of this is that there are all kinds of gender identifications and to be accepting of others as they are.
Sheila made a point though, there ARE some that post things that give us concern...thus we need to keep in mind that no two are the same and we need to learn what OUR CDer is like and concern ourselves with that and not what everyone else does.

[Lorileah]

.

So here we are at the end of the first Decade of the 21st Century and in most of the world ... Women are full citizens and have equal rights along with Men. (Not going to get into racial issues).

Don't think that will fly very much, even in "civilized countries". The majority of the world still sees women as chattel. Women make less money than men even in the good ol' USofA.


So now to answer your question, it is simply going to be a matter of time when Gender differences will no longer be an issue and no one will even think to question who you are and what your gender/sexuality is.

I just wish I could live long enough to see that.

and there is the bottom line. In fact your children's children may not see that. It would be a major victory to just be ignored. There is nothing in this world that time and/or money cannot change. We know we won't get the money (It pays more to make us look fools and clowns or axe murders on television or movies or even the weeknight news), Time? It is a limited resource. We all run out of it.

In both cases you cited above, race and sex, the people involved took it upon themselves to make noise. CD's don't (won't) do that. That closet is heated and comfortable. We are not being lynched. Most can get a good job. We live where we want. So why bother working towards equality?

We are thought of as gay because that is how we have been portrayed for years. Even on these boards, people perpetuate that by waffling about sexuality while dressed. We align ourselves with the gay community for "safety" even though they really don't want or need us in that community (refer to ENDA last session...they could get the votes if they dropped the TG's). During Pride events who do they focus on? The CD who wears the nice business suit with the skirt or the flaming brightly colored drag queen with EEE balloon breasts who acts like a fool? Hard to overcome those stereotypes when you cannot even tell your SO without fear that they will laugh at you or leave you. So we have to break these stereotypical images, but you can't do it from your closet, no one can see you there.