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View Full Version : Females are Mosaics - TS are genetic variants?



melissaK
10-13-2009, 11:03 AM
In exploring "ideas" about why we TG are TG, my personal feelings lead me to support those who's research says it is genetic variance. It "feels" hardwired inside of me.

In my own readings I recently covered Dr. Barabara Migeon's book "Females are Mosiacs: X inactivation and Sex Differences in Disease." (Oxford Univ. Press 2007). Her professional credentials in genetics are impeccable. This book is hard science, it is not a "pop culture" book of the month.

Most of us know that women have 2 X chromosomes (chains of genes). Men have 1 X chromosome and 1 Y chromosome; women do not have Y chromosomes.

What I didn't know before reading her book is that the Y chromosome is in fact small and a fraction of the size of the X chromosome. The Y chromosome carries out extremely few duties in human males; the X chromosome carries the genes that do the heavy lifting of running our body.

When an X chromosome has a variant gene, or a broken gene, something in our body that the variant gene is supposed to do gets done differently or poorly or not at all, compared to those with the common gene. Most of us understand that this genetic variation can be beneficial or harmful and genetic variation is considered the basis of evolution.

Dr. Midegeon explains that researchers have learned that in women the two X chromosmes are not identical, and thus if one X chromosome carries a variant gene, it is unlikey the other carries the same variant gene.

In women sometimes the second X chromosome will supply the better working gene that the other X chromosome can't. This is called genetic mosaicism, and is what her book is about. In men we are stuck with what ever variant genes our single X chromosome has.

If the variant gene is crucial, women may have a backup gene. Thus, women are slightly healthier than men. They are slightly less prone to many illnesses or conditions. This is part of why they outlive men.

Dr. Midegeon concludes that anytime there is a condition that is more prevalent in men than in women, there is a high probability that it is an X chromosome genetically determined condition. And that is really why I wanted to write this post.

Because Tgism is greater in men than women, Dr. Midegon's work suggests one ought to look for a genetic factor. What particular gene might be involved is hard to determine.

For example, X chromosomes carry many of the genes that affect the ability of the body to process testosterone - and thus some males with Y chromosomes don't develop correctly because of a gene on their X chromosome. This is called "androgen insensitivity syndrome." Perhaps, something similar goes on with a gene that leads to TSism.

Dr. Midegeon complains scientists and doctors aren't fully recognizing the impact of mosaicism in treating diseases or doing research. The "we are all alike" attitude prevails more than she thinks it should. Of course, that is sweet music to my ears, as I have always known I am not like most genetic men.

hugs,
'lissa

Kaitlyn Michele
10-13-2009, 11:21 AM
very cool....that makes alot of sense

WalT
10-13-2009, 11:27 AM
Just my :2c: as someone who reads not just on the psychology and sociology of gender but also enjoys reading some of the more biological stuff:

I think finding a single set of genes that determine TGism is fairly unlikely. There's so much variety within the TG/TS community. The most compelling evidence that it has a biological basis lies in the brains of MtFs and FtMs that they have similar brain structure to their gender identity rather than their born sex (I wish I could remember this study came from; the number of brains studied were limited so I'm not hailing it as absolute proof). However, whether this applies to the TG community at large I really don't know; I imagine there's more variety in brain structure and chemistry just likes there is in others. There's so many factors I doubt a single one will be found for TG/TS, much like scientists can't really pinpoint a single biological thing that differentiates straight from nonstraight individuals.

I'm not a biologist so you can take this with a grain of salt.

There's a book on this subject from the biology standpoint written by a transwoman ecology professor called Evolution's Rainbow. It's by Joan Roughgarden. I just finished the book and I really liked it. It's nice hearing that diversity isn't undesirable from a scientist.

The study about transgendered brains was mentioned in there and mentioned a study not unlike the one in the original post.

jasilyn
10-13-2009, 11:54 AM
thanks for posting this. i am always interested in the exploration of 'why?' maybe one day the world will realize that we are who we are, as many on this board already have.

GypsyKaren
10-13-2009, 12:20 PM
While there may be variety in the "TG" community, most transsexuals are just transsexuals, our circumstances are different but our feelings are pretty much the same.

Karen :g1:

Lorileah
10-13-2009, 12:36 PM
In that theory males would rely on the hope that having 75% of the genes would allow them to do the right thing or carry out a certain task (half the Y gene is missing and if the X gene controls how things are done then males are 50% non-functional). If only, once again, life was that simple. We have mapped brain function and some believe tat is the reason women are women and men are men. Thus a quick MRI and brain scan should allow TS's to verify that they are in fact in the wrong body. Isn't done because there is no proof. I have heard that 80% of the human genome has been mapped. Statistically that would make it likely that they could find a common link that would place TS's in a category. Hasn't happened. Hormone levels?? Don't do it. Nature vs nurture? Arguments persist.

We keep reinforcing gender stereotypes like logic, compassion, aggressiveness (boy is that one changing daily with the young women in the US), problem solving and many more. One would wish we could put his on hormones or genotypes. The fact is how it stands now, the Y gene tells your body to make testosterone, the extra X blocks that.

By the logic sent forth by the author of that book XXY would have a better chance of doing something "right" and XXX would be even better. Viva la intersexed!

What you read is more likely a "publish or perish" thesis. May be some facts that will prove out later but it is a thesis.

WalT
10-13-2009, 02:19 PM
While there may be variety in the "TG" community, most transsexuals are just transsexuals, our circumstances are different but our feelings are pretty much the same.

Karen :g1:I wouldn't say there's no variety, it's just there is far less distinguishable variety. I'm a "classic transsexual" (i.e. I identified as male from, well, the time I managed to figure out what gender was, when I was 3 or 4), but my partner isn't. I realize genes may come on at certain times, but a TS gene really doesn't explain people who are adament they're neither gender (I've not met any of these people personally, I've only talked to them over the internet, but I don't doubt their existence) even if their biological sex suggests otherwise.

Starling
10-13-2009, 02:58 PM
...There's a book on this subject from the biology standpoint written by a transwoman ecology professor called Evolution's Rainbow...

Thanks for your suggestion, WalT. I just ordered the book. Maybe I can even get my SO to read it with me.

:) Lallie

WalT
10-13-2009, 03:05 PM
Thanks for your suggestion, WalT. I just ordered the book. Maybe I can even get my SO to read it with me.

:) LallieNo problem! I initially found it looking through the Gender Studies (which, to my disappointment, seems a synonym for "Women's Studies" a lot of the time :/ what a misnomer!) section of Hastings here and wanted to buy it. I just checked it out at the university library. There's one chapter I entirely skipped on bio-engineering (which, after taking an intro to ethics class, I'm tired of hearing about!), but I found the book very interesting and not intimidating to read at all.

luvSophia
10-13-2009, 05:19 PM
The most compelling evidence that it has a biological basis lies in the brains of MtFs and FtMs that they have similar brain structure to their gender identity rather than their born sex (I wish I could remember this study came from; the number of brains studied were limited so I'm not hailing it as absolute proof).
There were a couple studies that I know of. One was published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism in 2000 and it expanded on an earlier study from 1995. What they found was that MTF transsexuals had neuron numbers similar to genetic females in a particular area of the brain.

melissaK
10-13-2009, 09:24 PM
What you read is more likely a "publish or perish" thesis. May be some facts that will prove out later but it is a thesis.

I think I confused you with my post. The authors credentials are impeccable, and her book is aimed at the science behind mosaicism, her book is not aimed at explaining TSism. I am the one discussing TSism in the context of her book.

You mention poly chromosomal people, and they are discussed, along with other significant problems those combinations face which keep the math from working as simply as you suggest it could. Genetics of our DNA, the longest DNA on the planet, is a complex and emerging field, and you are right that we can reach few conclusions yet. Mankind is still learning just how complex we are, and how complex and widespread our genetic variations are. And I thnk we TS are among them - whether its from one gene or several interacting.

And like Karen points out, while we might differ in some genetic aspects, we usually have many similar aspects with everyone else, especially in the area of feelings and emotional wants and needs. And the need for pink nail polish . . . ok, maybe that's just me. :-)

hugs,
'lissa

joanlynn28
10-14-2009, 07:49 PM
To me it doesn't matter, once you realize your TG, that is all that matters, not why am I this way.

Empress Lainie
10-17-2009, 12:43 PM
Melissa I also have always known I was "different" from other men and boys, but I didn't know why until a few years ago.
Never dawned on me that I was really a female person in a male body. Everything made sense after I knew that.

StarrOfDelite
10-19-2009, 10:50 AM
There was a program by that title on Nova in the summer of 2008, about a scientific study of how identical twins age differently. Apparently there are parts of the genetic DNA strand which can be mutated by life experiences. It's been a while, and I am not a geneticist anyway, but there are apparently "sub-genes" which can affect our bodies, but this theory of genetic variants sounds somewhat similar.

We must remember that most of this research is still in its infancy. I recall that back in the 1970's there was an attempt to prove that XYY males (a 1/900 occurrence in the general population) were more likely to be criminals, but that has, I think, largely been discredited.

I suspect that, while we may have physiological genetic predispositions programmed into our bodies, the social and psychological factors are equally important.