Debating the term "Crossdresser."

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

So in addition to posting on this forum, I also post on a forum more focused on "men in skirts." There has been a debate recently about the term crossdresser, because the majority of the guys over there don't view what we do there to be crossdressing. In some cases I think some of them reject the term more out of fear and an effort to try to distance themselves from social stigma, but some folks do seem to have a pretty rational mindset about why they don't think what they're doing is crossdressing.

Without getting into an argument, I just wanted some of your thoughts on it. Putting aside the dictionary definition that simply defines it as wearing clothes traditionally reserved for the opposite sex, do you feel that the act of crossdressing specifically also involves presenting oneself off as the opposite sex as well?

[Karren H]

I'm not hung up on names or labels......... so call it what you like.... I just call it fun.....

[Wen4cd]

I've found it rather pointless to bicker over semantics, at least in this sphere.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I'm not "bickering over semantics" I'm simply curious as to other people's thoughts. I was having an interesting conversation with a group who has one mindset about something and I was just wanting to get another perspective on it.

I have the thoughts of a group who doesn't consider themselves to be crossdressers and I simply wanted those of some who do.

[docrobbysherry]

Why do u care what other people call themselves? Or u, for that matter?:eek:

I could care less, if people call me a pervert or a butterfly! It's what I THINK OF MYSELF that's important!:brolleyes:

[Joanne f]

There are different ways at looking at it , from the general public's point of view if you have a skirt on then they would no doubt call it cross dressing as a skirt is traditionally associated with females (yes there are exceptions).
But in theory if you made a skirt just for you, in which case it would be made for a male then how could it be called cross dressing .
I personally do not think that just wearing a skirt is cross dressing as you are wearing it for the freedom and not the gender identity thing , but in the end does it really matter what it is called .

[Lorileah]

The main reason I dislike the term is that it leads to someone arguing the "women can do it and it's not 'crossdressing'" then that degrades into someone telling that person to get a life and so on. Of course the same thing happens when someone argues the gay/straight or TS vs CD things. I lobby to lose the crossdresser label just because it really seems demeaning. Just this week on "Cops" the officer put out a bulletin saying a "Crossdresser" attacked two women. When they found the people they were obviously transsexuals (guilt or innocence aside) and they were at least in part victims of the people they had the altercation with. But the way the word "Crossdresser" is enunciated you can tell the distaste. I think the word "Transvestite" incurs images of all the bad things associated with dressing. Of course that is just my angle on both of those.

[sterling12]

If they don't want to be associated with The Term Crossdresser, that's their business. But, I'll bet dollars to donuts that an educated, disinterested, third party would define their "behaviors" as somewhere to the far left of The Transgendered Spectrum. That is if we place Post -Op TS Gals on The Far Right, and Hetero CD's in The Middle.

It might be interesting to see how many of these "Guy in Skirts," ever go further with their "Curiosity," and start to try other things! Gosh, if they wear female undergarments , along with their skirt....what do we then call them?

Perhaps your other group also has a problem with self-acceptance?

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Zoiq]

Well to me.... its about how you want to present yourself.

There are:

Men in Skirts, that is someone who see's themselves simply as a Man wearing a kilt / skirt or whatever, that is Presenting themselves as Male.

and

Men in cloths / wigs / make-up etc, that is Presenting themselves as FeMale.

In my mind, both of these could be label'd as CrossDressing, it is more about what it means to you.

[Wen4cd]

I'm not "bickering over semantics" I'm simply curious as to other people's thoughts. I was having an interesting conversation with a group who has one mindset about something and I was just wanting to get another perspective on it.

I have the thoughts of a group who doesn't consider themselves to be crossdressers and I simply wanted those of some who do.

I don't mean you, I mean the whole notion of labels in general.

"Being yourself" is wonderful. "Defining yourself, " is a bit of a fruitless waste of time. "Labeling yourself" is akin to suicide.

I consider myself to be a human being who sometimes does things that someone else might call 'cross-dressing,' but which I have no single name for. Identity is a tricky business, where ultimately 'me' is the only word that I can ever truly apply to myself.

[sissystephanie]

So in addition to posting on this forum, I also post on a forum more focused on "men in skirts." There has been a debate recently about the term crossdresser, because the majority of the guys over there don't view what we do there to be crossdressing. In some cases I think some of them reject the term more out of fear and an effort to try to distance themselves from social stigma, but some folks do seem to have a pretty rational mindset about why they don't think what they're doing is crossdressing.

Without getting into an argument, I just wanted some of your thoughts on it. Putting aside the dictionary definition that simply defines it as wearing clothes traditionally reserved for the opposite sex, do you feel that the act of crossdressing specifically also involves presenting oneself off as the opposite sex as well?

For some, crossdressing definitley does involve presenting oneself as the opposite sex. But those people are generally know as TG's, not CD's. However, as others have said on this thread, what difference does it make? Labeling people is for those who have nothing better to do in their life! Your other friends don't want to be known as CD's? Fine, call them something else! Men in Scotland wear kilts, which certainly look much like a skirt! Just be careful telling a Scotsman he is wearing a skirt!! Especially if he is bigger than you!

I am somewhat like Karren! I dress for fun, although I don't wear a wig or makeup. I don't try to present as a woman, I just dress like one! Ergo, I am a CROSSDRESSER!!

[Lorileah]

I wanna dress for fun :(

[Kate Simmons]

In a pure sense a "crossdresser" would not present en femme.:)

[JoAnne Wheeler]

You might want to try the Search feature on this site - this has been discussed in detail several times previously

JoAnne Wheeler

[DonnaT]

Putting aside the dictionary definition that simply defines it as wearing clothes traditionally reserved for the opposite sex, do you feel that the act of crossdressing specifically also involves presenting oneself off as the opposite sex as well?

Not in my opinion. I agree with the definition of one who dresses in clothes traditionally reserved for the opposite sex, whether it is just panties, or just hose or fully enfemme.

IMO, men who wear skirts, not kilts, are crossdressing. And I do wear skirts more often than dressing fully enfemme.

[Jeanna]

If they don't want to be associated with The Term Crossdresser, that's their business. But, I'll bet dollars to donuts that an educated, disinterested, third party would define their "behaviors" as somewhere to the far left of The Transgendered Spectrum. That is if we place Post -Op TS Gals on The Far Right, and Hetero CD's in The Middle.

It might be interesting to see how many of these "Guy in Skirts," ever go further with their "Curiosity," and start to try other things! Gosh, if they wear female undergarments , along with their skirt....what do we then call them?

Perhaps your other group also has a problem with self-acceptance?

Peace and Love, Joanie

Exactly, well put!

Jeanna

[ArleneRaquel]

Karren is right it is a great deal of fun. :daydreaming:

[AllieSF]

I go along with the traditional definition of the term, wearing clothes of the oopposite gender, be it all the way with wig, makeup and forms, to only a skirt and blouse. I do not think that wearing a kilt in it's traditional usage is crossdressing. I too dislike terms and labels, but also realize that they help our minds (at least mine) get our arms around an idea, person, or whatever. It helps me associate the term with the person and then work out the details over time. However, I try not to get hung up as to the details of the terminilogy and whether it can be taken in a negative or positive way. I think everyone should be able to dress as they like and call it what they like.

[GaleWarning]

In a pure sense a "crossdresser" would not present en femme.:)

This nicely supports the GG's argument that they are NOT crossdressing when wearing trousers, because they are not presenting en-homme (sp?).

I dislike discussions such as these because they are pointless and lead to needless bickering. I believe we ought to be able to wear whatever we like, whenever we like.

[DaphneGrey]

I personally do not like the term crossdresser and never have. I rarely use it to describe myself. The truth is I hate all of the lables unfortunately There is no way around them. I have a Bi Gender existance and there needs to be adjectives to describe it. Having said that if you use the word or lable in this case as an adjective it becomes mo

[Tina B.]

This may be simplistic but as I see it, if you buy your skirt in a men store it's not cross dressing, but if you buy it in the women's department it is. The term has to do with the wearing of the garment, not the presentation.
Tina

[Jessica Who]

I'm of the opinion that anyone who wears clothing from the other gender is crossdressing, even if it's a wife wearing her husband's dress shirt and boxers to clean up the house.

With that out of the way, I fully realize that not only is crossdresser a term that many people (especially younger generation) likes to steer away from, but also there are lots of people who despise labels.

When I started my blog I made sure not to name it anything with a label (hence Jessica Who? instead of Jessica CD or Jessica TG or something like that)...because I myself am not "in love" with the word crossdresser...
:D

[Frédérique]

So in addition to posting on this forum, I also post on a forum more focused on "men in skirts."

Yeah, I’ve seen that forum – not a single iota of femininity in sight…:heehee:

If you’re talking about just wearing a kilt, I would say that is not actual crossdressing according to the peculiarities of this forum, but, you have to admit, you certainly get a strange buzz from wearing one! A kilt can be seen as an ultra-masculine garment, worn in battle for centuries, but how many people these days can look past the fact that it resembles a skirt? BTW, didn’t the kilt come first?

I adore kilts, but I try to hijack them from the male stereotypical world and make them into a feminine fashion statement. Check out my kilt in the avatar – no sporran, no sword kilt pin, and it wraps around the other way, since it’s a women’s kilt (I got it at J. Peterman years ago). No kilt flashes, either – too boyish for me! :battingeyelashes: I imagine most guys on the “men in skirts” forum would be horrified if I homed into view, a confusing lassie if there ever was one!


…do you feel that the act of crossdressing specifically also involves presenting oneself off as the opposite sex as well?

Yes, but there are many degrees of presentation, each according to his or her own chosen idea of “self.” The whole idea is to be opposite, for whatever personal reason one may have…

[MarinaTwelve200]

CROSSDRESSING, simply wearing the clothing, etc. of the opposite gender is something someone does and not a definable condition in itself---Rather it is a SYMPTOM or expression as a result of several, often unrelated psychological or psycosocial conditions.

One may crossdress because they may be a transvestite, a transsexual, or involved in different forms of humiliaton SM, get off on breaking social norms and taboos, have personal identity issues, or enjoy playing with identity or simply find it FUN. Crossdressing is simply one of the things one does as a result of the underlying psycology.

Many of "yall out there tend to think that crossdressing ITSELF is the issue being addressed, but its only a symptom of something else that needs to be addressed or understood. Not to say that Crossdressing or the reasons for it are a "Disease", but it MAY be likened to a FEVER. A FEVER is only a symptom of an underlying cause. It is NOT the thing in itself,as many diverse diseases and infections result in fevers. Likewise, Many diverse psychological states and conditions result in crossdressing.

If one feels that they have to control, "cure", or understand crossdressing, its important to realize that dressing is NOT the issue, but rather WHY one dresses. Simply attacking CDing from the dressing angle acomplishes nothing. Like icing down a fever, only releiving the heat for a while,---one still has the cause to deal with which will make it come back.

[Kate Simmons]

It's true that if one wears the clothing generally designed for the opposite sex it is technically crossdressing. It's the notions of Society, however, that deem that a man's crossdressing (especially fully en femme to the "nines" and trying to "pass") is abnormal whereas a woman's crossdressing is stylish or practical(especially if she does not try to "pass herself off" as a man). Should work both ways, no? But it doesn't. Gotta love it.:)

[trannie T]

This may be simplistic but as I see it, if you buy your skirt in a men store it's not cross dressing, but if you buy it in the women's department it is. The term has to do with the wearing of the garment, not the presentation.
Tina

I disagree. I believe that the intent of wearing a piece of clothing is more important. If a man wears a kilt as a male garment he is not crossdressing, if he wears a kilt because it resembles a skirt he may be crossdressing. If I wear a pair of women's jeans because they are women's clothing I may be crossdressing, if I wear them because they are the only clean ones I have I may not be crossdressing.

I am in drab when I say I am in drab, I am crossdressed when I say I am crossdressed.

[Karen564]

I probably shouldn't say a thing on this subject But......Yeah, by definition any way you slice it, anyone dressed as the opposite gender is technically called Cross-dressing.... but that's way too oversimplified in reality..

And also aware many dont like being labeled as such even if it's true by definition, but can also understand why they dont like the name because of the stigma attached to it, so what to call it??, I dont really know, it would just turn into another label whatever it is, right??, but I do like what Karren our Hockey Mom calls it, as just having fun, & believe this to be true.. As to the way I see, I call it Self Expression, & dont see the big deal doing that, but as everyone is very aware, others that dont self express themselves in the same way frown upon the other..

:2c: