Late...and booted!

[Melissa A.]

Ok, what's everyone's opinion on this? I ask because I can see both sides. Last night, I went to a trans support group for the first time. Not the first one I've ever been to, but the first time for me since moving to the city 4 months ago. After getting home from work, and getting ready, stuff happened(a couple of phone calls from family members, and just a few things I had to do, like eat) and time just got away from me. And of course, when I got to the subway, my train was just leaving, and I had to wait for the next one. I knew I was running quite late, so I called my friend who invited me to tell her. She was fine, but she's not one of the facilitators. I finally show up over 1/2 hour late, and I walk into a huge room with 40-50 people sitting around in a very big circle. By far, the biggest group gathering I have ever seen. As I got to the middle of the room, a little embarrassed at being so late to begin with, One of the women said, "are you just getting here?" I nodded, and was told, "I'm sorry, you have to go. I'm sorry." After a split second of mild shock, I nodded and walked out. I met my friend and a bunch of her friends afterwards and we went out, so I ended up having a really nice night, anyway.

After I was told to leave, I was pretty pissed off. When I told my closest friend, who couldn't make it, what happened, she was furious. She still is. (She's, ummm, let us say, not one to beat around the bush, ever, at all!) And I do see her point. Let's say you're a transsexual, just coming to grips with who you are. Maybe you can't afford or find a therapist yet. Maybe your family has thrown you out. You have money problems. You're lonely and distraught, and all you really want is to find some people to talk to and relate to. Or maybe you're afraid to be out in the world. So you go to great lengths to get ready, steel yourself for a scary, but hopefully positive experience, where you hope to find people to relate to, and maybe make a friend or two, and because you show up late you are immediately told to leave. Is that all that supportive?

I should say that none of the above apply to me. I've been out and on HRT for a year. I'm pretty strong and confident, and sure of myself. And to my great and happy surprise, my social life, since moving here, has not had to revolve around trans events. But I do think it would be nice to be involved more, or at all, even, in the community, and I'm always interested in meeting new people and making more friends. And I do understand, to some degree, the other side of this. Look, I just moved down here from way upstate. My experience with trans groups and events is akin to-as a friend of mine once described it-herding cats. Things are usually sparsely attended and very informal. Maybe that's why it didn't really occur to me that showing up so late would be so much of a problem. I'm not a chronically late person, and I do realise that it's also a bit rude to how up late, for anything. I also understand that running so large a group can be alot of thankless work, and if 12 people stroll in between 15 and 40 minute late, that can be a problem. I don't know what's been going on with this group. I was told that they just recently made an announcement cracking down on latecomers, so I unknowingly got caught up in that. But a part of me still says that there should be another way, maybe a seat outside the circle, where one can quietly listen but not participate, for that meeting, perhaps?

The people I met afterwards were very nice, and as I said, I ended up having a good evening. A few told me they thought that it was a bit harsh. I guess a couple of people showed up even later than me, and were also asked to leave.

My sister, of course, is now pissed off at me. "They freaking threw you out and you're justifying it??????" She was gonna come next week. Now, my biggest fear, although I still want her to, is that she will!

So, what do you all think?

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Lorileah]

Did you miss the secret handshake? Maybe they had already discussed everything that could possibly have been of interest to you and now it was lets divide into cliques and "dis" the too tall girl or the one with big hands and you didn't have a clique?

What they did was at the least rude. It is a "support group" for gawdsakes. "Thanks for the support ladies, I'll be in my closet depressed until you decide I can be a part of your circle".

Can you find another group? Maybe the one who beat this one in checkers last year at the Pride parade?

Maybe Groucho had it right "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. "

[Stephenie S]

:yt:

Yeah, what she said.

[DemonicDaughter]

Having been on an organizing committee for an LGBT group at one point, I hate to say it, but I can fully understand there position.

As much as you'd love to show support for everyone in the community, you inevitably end up with people who will come and go from the meeting while it is occurring. It wouldn't be a big deal if it didn't encourage a disruptive behavior with making people feel that there is no real structure and its not a "real" meeting. Just a lecture where random people are talking. It makes for a very poor support group actually. So like the one you attended, we've had to enforce similar rules with ours. Its a shame because we know that at some point we might be turning out someone who desperately needs our help!

So! You might suggest to the organizers to sit someone by the door after the designated start of the meeting. This way they can stop anyone coming in late, explain the circumstances without being rude or embarrassing them AND possibly offer them a place to sit and talk quietly during the meeting (outside the meeting room of course).

Perhaps even someone like yourself who does have the confidence and does want to get more involved! You would be able to have some one-on-one time with other trans people who might be in the position you described. :)

[Sandra]

I'd tell them to sod off and find another group. It's stupid just because you was 1/2 an hour late they said you couldn't stay, thats not a support group.

[Lorileah]

I don't get that DD, how could it be disruptive when you just show up sit down and listen? It's not a play where opening the door lets light in and might distract the audience when you try and slide by. Even at the theater they will sit you between acts. This all seems contra indicative to the word "support". Not everyone gets the courage to show up, sometimes you have to walk to that door a few times before you come in and throwing a person out doesn't help that self confidence now does it? I can't imagine a church doing this, go away God is busy right now. People show up for services late all the time.:straightface:

[Miranda09]

Asking you to leave just because you showed up late?? What is this..high school? That's the most rediculous rule I've ever heard. Yes, let your sister come along. I think they need shaking up a bit!!!!

[Kimmy55]

I need to agree with Lorileigh.Being late is no wheres near the same as disruptive

[Leasa Wells]

A group that size someone would know you havent been to that meeting should have gotten up and at least walk you out. Any SUPPORT group that i have ever been to, would not ever and I mean ever tell you to leave. I hope you have the strength to go back and maybe in time offer them to change that policy. I know they wouldnt look at it right away, their opinion might be slow in change.

just my :2c:

Lisa

[Karen564]

I see both sides too..
I know it doesn't sound like a very supportive group asking you to leave because you just so happened to be tardy, but if that's their rules, then that's the way it is, but now you know to be on time for the next meeting..

Yes they should have someone at the door to tell you 1st rather than feel like a turd in front of everyone or at the very least had a notice posted on the door before you entered as to, Sorry, Absolutely no admittance allowed after blank PM, No exceptions, then the next group meeting date @ blank time..

Personally though, I would asked you if this was your 1st time there & cut you some slack to let you stay, since it was your very 1st time there, then after explained to you about needing to be prompt & why for next time & what the consequences are..
But that's just me..

Whole thing is on these support group meetings is, and especially that one for having such a large attendance for a support group is, the ones that ARE on time dont feel there getting what they came for if people are comming in & going as they please..it can be very distracting for the whole group.. a small support group can be more flexible on this but the larger ones simply cant..

Either way, at least you had a great night regardless!!, you sound more reasonable & level headed than your sister about it, and it's certainly not worth having a tizzy fit over it, IMO, Life is too short as it is.. and think you handled yourself very well,,,,,, so .:thumbsup:

:hugs:

[GypsyKaren]

I would have told them that I completely understood their position, I would have profusely and sincerely apologized for being so thoughtless, then I would have politely asked who wanted to be first in line to kiss my fu*king ass.

Karen :g1:

[Hope]

I would have told them that I completely understood their position, I would have profusely and sincerely apologized for being so thoughtless, then I would have politely asked who wanted to be first in line to kiss my fu*king ass.

You know Karen, there are times when I think you are too harsh, and then there are times when I just love you. This would be one of the latter times.

Seriously. What utter bloody BS. What kind of an idiot kicks someone out of a SUPPORT group.

I come from a long line of proud alcoholics, a significant portion of my formative years was spent in AA meetings, Alanon meetings, alateen meetings et.al. So much so that I am really quite burnt out on the whole group meeting thing in the first place. But I can't really conceive of anyone being asked to leave because they showed up late... It's asinine and counter productive.

Seriously, anyone who asks people to leave a support group because they showed up late for their first meeting (or any meeting really) needs to be not-so-politely asked to stop coordinating meetings. A support group shouldn't exist to stroke the ego or control issues of the coordinator.

No wonder most TG support groups are poorly attended... "Hey it's great that you finely worked up the courage to break societies rules and wrestle your own demons and join us here today - unfortunately, you broke one of our more petty rules, so we can't support you, or benefit from you today, you will have to leave."

Drink up Johnny...

[Kimberley]

Our group runs the gamut from informational to personal support. We never know what a meeting will be like. The doors to our meeting place are locked. If someone shows up late, they ring the bell and someone will go answer the door. They take a chair (if they can find one it is usually at the back.) and the meeting proceeds uninterrupted. Many times no one even is aware of a late arrival.

We always do a "check in" at the beginning. Late arrivals are asked to do the same when the opportunity presents itself.

I could see their position if it was a group therapy support but a general trans meeting? They were wayyyy out of line in my view. I agree with Karen.

Huggs.
Kim

[Heatherx75]

Honey, I felt so bad about what happened, as I said. I hope your other friend calms herself down by next week, because seriously, it's a very cool group. I don't want to talk too much about what happened in the group last week, but I will say that it was a lot more... unstructured, shall we say? Seriously, they let in a couple of NYU students who just wanted to observe and do a write-up on their experiences in the trans community. They had to leave, because a couple of people were uncomfortable being observed, but the whole session last week was taken over by people complaining about how the group was being run. She didn't control things at all, and people were kind of mad at her, and some of us were kind of questioning if she had any idea how to facilitate the group. In fact, one of the suggestions was that she crack down on latecomers. That was an old rule from before, they draw the line at 15 minutes, but that was the first time I've ever seen it enforced. I didn't think she'd really do it, to be honest. So anyway, this week she was back to her old nazi self, and I'm so sorry you had to get a taste of that right off the bat, because she's really nice when she's not running the group. And it is a difficult group to run with all those people. And to be honest, we actually had a really productive session, some really deep things came out, and I'm really sorry you got booted because I know you could have really contributed.
I personally don't look at the group as the main event of the evening anyway, because I find the communication to be easier when we're all out having dinner or at the bar, and we don't have to take turns talking and what not. In fact, there's a lot of people who don't even go to the group for whatever reason, and just meet us at dinner.
This is just for everyone's information because some people seem to have gotten the impersonation that we're an evil group for stuck-up trannies, it has nothing to do with what happened to Melissa. But the gay center where we hold our meetings tried to stick us in a room that has a max occupancy of 24 people last night. There's a sign on the door. And they know that we regularly get 30-40 people showing up. They used to do this to us all the time, it was like trying to have a support group on a subway car. Somebody complained to them and said, "hey what are you trying to do, screw us again?" And they were like, "No, it's not about that, it's about not reserving the room on time," or some other BS. So somebody straightened that out with them, and they said OK, and stuck us in a big giant room with an echo. Interesting. They obviously had that room available, so why try to cram us into the broom closet? I'll leave it to you. And there's people walking down the hallway talking loud, sticking their heads in the door for a second then shutting it, peering in the windows, generally not giving a hoot about the fact that there's a support group going on. A lot of people don't talk loud enough and it can be really hard to hear what anybody's saying.
And let me also add that there was a homeless kid in our group last night. I'm glad she showed up on time, because like Melissa said it would suck if we were booting out homeless trannies for being 30 minutes late. I'm fairly upset about the way she booted you out, because I thought she was nicer to the girl who showed up 15 minutes before we finished. (Maybe she felt guilty.) With her she was just like, "meet us downstairs and we'll all go to the diner."
For me, going to the group was one of the best things I ever did for myself. I went from knowing zero trannies in real life to knowing more than I can keep track of. I went from being afraid to peep out the closet door for fear of being lynched to marching right out my front door, waving to my neighbors and heading out to do whatever I want to do. All that since March. Anyway, I'm just sticking up for my girls, because they took me under their wing right away, and I saw the same thing happening with some of the new people who had just started coming and didn't know how to do makeup or dress up good. What happened with Mel was just a case of overcompensation for being too lax the week before. I look forward to seeing you next week Mel, and I look forward to seeing your girl too, but she's got to chill, yo?

[JenniferZ2009]

The only reason I can think of even though I have never been to a TG support group is that if you show up late you would have missed the introductions (at least that is waht happens in AA).

That could be a really important part of the meeting and set the framework for the rest of the discussion.

[JenniferZ2009]

Is there a dress code for these type of meetings?

I plan on going to a meeting next week or the first time but dont want to dress to the nines. I'm just going to do the girls clothes and not so much the makeup,i'm thinking. (I dont think I pass all that well.)

I don't want to get turned away.

[Melissa A.]

Hey Heather, I didnt mention your name, I don't want to put you on the spot, and I am terribley sorry if I hurt you at all. Knowing you, and that you know I'm not a very angry person, I doubt that, and I did tell you how I felt last night. But after some sleep, I started to see both sides. Then I heard from Steph again (she still feels the same!) and I wasn't sure so I thought I'd get some perspective from our sisters and brothers here. I so hope you don't mind. All of your friends that I met last night were wonderful, as are you, and I'm glad I went. I'm a big girl and I can handle what happened, as I'm sure I can handle the facilitator, if what happened ever comes up between us. I just wanted to get some other opinions from others who may have experienced something like this. I will return next week, work schedule permitting(on time!) and tell Steph to chill until she gets a more complete picture and meets a few people on that side of the river.(actually, at least half of those I met were from Brooklyn!) I am so, so sorry if I overstepped at all by writing about it. Call me anytime, sis.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

P.S.- I thought I sucked at pool, but most of your friends REALLY suck!

[joanlynn28]

I If were you I would go and find another group to go to. It's obvious that they don't want to help anyone if they make a newcomer so unwelcome. I personally have never been part of a support group that told someone to leave because they showed up late. To me they are not being very supportive to someone that had diffeculty getting to the meeting, they should have at least been welcoming and asked you to introduce yourself to the rest of the group.

[MJ]

I'd tell them to sod off and find another group. It's stupid just because you was 1/2 an hour late they said you couldn't stay, thats not a support group.

i agree so much for support.

do they have an e-mail address give it to me . I'll have a little chat with them...

send it to my pm

[TxKimberly]

I'd have to agree that if there is one place you don't turn away people for being late, it's at a support meeting. I could possibly see this if it is the same person being late over and over with out some sort of good reason. I could see an individual habitually disrupting the meeting this way being turned away, but not someone on their first visit presumably seeking emotional help and support.

[Jessinthesprings]

at the risk of repeating what has already been said. It stands to be repeated. it is a support group. With suicide being rather high in this small demographic, that moderator could be sending someone away who is on the verge of killing them selves. I think a little disruption (which I doubt that there is any) is worth not having that blood on your hands.

And this is life. Things happen. I never plan on being late, but an accident on a main street, or a phone call, or any number of reasons can make someone late. It happens.

You have a right to be mad. While I think some of the responses may be a bit etxtream, if you think its worth going again you might bring up some of the point of views, and let the facilitators draw their own conclusion.

[janelle]

Let me ask this; this is the only group that meets, it starts at ,lets say 630 in the evening. You work until 6 & have to drive to the other end of town & thats just to get there a tad late in male attire. Why would you not let someone come in? We all need help with many different issues we all go thru. Many people can not fit that perfect time "for you" as others can. To me it is totally wrong. Let people enter like they were going to a movie. When a question is asked than take part in it, or when asked to share open up. I believe what I have read about this group is just a tad selfish. Yes there needs to be rules but than if this is one, maybe a better hour would be better. We all need to remember, things happen that we can not control, so should we be punished for that? I think not.

Sorry for getting on my high horse but I have seen to many people refused many other things just because they are a few minutes late & on. Ye shave a time limit. If the meeting is 2 hours , than maybe set it up as no one gets in after an hour but make the start time a good time for all in the first place.

Sorry starting up again. Thats my $.02 worth & yes I know it does not hold water bute people do work different hours, have family things that do & should come first & yes, like all of us, they need help understanding.

Sorry for going on.

Hugs to you all,
Janelle

PS, I have no intent in hurting anyone with this post, it is just how "I" believe, Thanks

[Huntress]

I need to agree with Lorileigh.Being late is no wheres near the same as disruptive

I'll be there dressed as Rudy Giuliani dressed in drag. Fashionably late with a Latte. AND a 15 hp leaf blower loaded with 40 lbs of cornflakes. Soaked in maple syrup. Anyone stands up to try the ejection lever gets "flaked." I would use grapenuts, but there are apparently too many nuts at the meeting as is.

Disruptive indeed:devil:

Huntress

[DemonicDaughter]

I don't get that DD, how could it be disruptive when you just show up sit down and listen? It's not a play where opening the door lets light in and might distract the audience when you try and slide by. Even at the theater they will sit you between acts. This all seems contra indicative to the word "support". Not everyone gets the courage to show up, sometimes you have to walk to that door a few times before you come in and throwing a person out doesn't help that self confidence now does it? I can't imagine a church doing this, go away God is busy right now. People show up for services late all the time.:straightface:

Because a lot of people unfortunately don't know how to just "sit down and listen". :sad: And it can be disruptive to have people walk in while you're in the middle of telling a personal story.

I'm not saying its right to turn people away, but I can understand having rules set in place in an emotionally charged environment like that.

I also think that a support group is very different from attending a church service. The latter is generally people on their best behavior where as a support group is generally people feeling the need to communicate in some form.

In other words, as much as I'd like to believe things can be so civilized, that's not always the case, and least of all when a large group of people are feeling lonely, desperate, unloved, unwanted, unsure, confused or upset. Then there are those there with confidence, with strength, with the need to be heard, seen and get involved! Add all of that anxiety and emotion into a single room and its BOUND to have its problems. So there might be a damn good reason that rule is enforced.

Would it be so wrong to find out why before we condemn a group of people, who obviously are supportive because they organized and maintain a support group, for not being supportive because they needed some semblance of structure or order (even if that its hardly apparent they have any)?

Simply, ask why that rule is there. The answer might be a good one. It might not but at least we'd know for definite.

[Heatherx75]

@Melissa: no problems between us at all, of course.:hugs: I should never have to even say that, but I'm only saying so for the benefit of the people here who don't know us personally. I understand that you wanted to get perspective, it's totally cool. If there was a tone of annoyance in my post, it was directed at people who were mouthing off about something that they think they know about but really don't. I can tell in your post you weren't trying to get that kind of reaction but that seems to be most of what we have here. Unfortunately, I can tell that hardly anyone bothered to read my post because some people who posted after me are still going on like I just didn't say anything, or they didn't give a hoot about what I had to say.:brolleyes: Some pretty ridiculously (yes, ridiculously) nasty things have been said by some people here, but I'm not going to bother to address them because they don't seem to have bothered to read my post anyway.
@Demonic Daughter: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
@JenniferZ: No dress code at our meetings.
But let me just clarify why they have that policy, in case anybody else actually reads it: It IS disruptive when people show up late. It's a big, noisy room with an echo, and it makes a lot of noise just to walk across the floor. It's hard to hear people talk. We lose the first 15 or 20 minutes of every group because of people still coming in, grabbing a chair, finding a place, oops! now we've gotta make the circle bigger, everybody scoot back. I'm sorry, what were you saying about your family telling you to go to hell? I know it's stupid, I know it's sad, but if they didn't have that 15 minute cutoff period, people wouldn't respect the start time. And yes, it is a huge group, literally 40-50 people sometimes, and as Melissa found out, some of us are a little hyper. I feel like our facilitator runs things like a nazi schoolmarm at times, but in a group that large, some people don't always respect the group and what we're trying to do. And yes, the not-for-profit group that administers our group and a few other trans groups has to pay for the room for the time we're using it. We have an hour and a half, and then they tell us to get the f*** out because there's another group that needs it for a meeting.

P.S. I sucked harder than usual at pool last night, you carried that game we won. Sometimes I get on a roll. You met one of our good players, we have one or two others, but they weren't there last night. Like I said, we don't play serious pool at nowhere, we have to stop playing and dance for 5 minutes between shots. I'd be afraid to take them to your joint.:heehee:

[Raquel June]

There are business meetings and then there are social meetings. If you are at an important business meeting you are expected to show up on time and you are expected to contribute. But even in a strict environment, the majority of bosses aren't going to say, "I'm sorry, but get the hell out," if you show up late. And of course if it's a social meeting most people are going to show up a little late.

Seriously, there's no excuse for that. It's ridiculous.

As far as support groups, there is quite a spectrum of what is expected. The group I go to is very laid back. We meet from 7:00pm till 9:00pm two nights a month and we go out to a restaurant afterwards. I often show up 30 min. late. Other people often show up 45 min. late. It's no big deal.

Some groups are a lot more serious. There was actually a group that split off of ours because they wanted it to be more strict. They wanted to basically have a list of things they were going to discuss and people would go around the room waiting for their turn. They even have a little thing they pass around indicating who's allowed to talk. These people are way too hardcore about their "support," but they still wouldn't go kicking you out for showing up late -- at least not the first time you came to their meeting. That's asinine.

Seriously, you deserve an apology for that before you go back. And if you have friends who are members they should demand it.

Today I was at a group therapy session where there were only three of us plus two people running the thing. I showed up early because I knew people would be waiting on me to begin. I guess that's what makes the difference. If there's a group of people who are actually counting on you to be there at a specific time and it will disrupt what they're trying to accomplish if you show up late then I understand. But if your support group is that kind of environment I don't think it's a support group I want to be in.

Then again, you said the meeting was a huge room with 40-50 people in a circle. It sounds like they're pretty serious about their support! And when you have a group that large then it's going to have to be fairly strict and structured if you actually want to accomplish something and not have it just be some kind of tranny meet-and-greet. But it's still stupid that you got kicked out on your first visit.

[Raquel June]

It's a big, noisy room with an echo, and it makes a lot of noise just to walk across the floor. It's hard to hear people talk.

Wow. Sounds like you need a new location.



We lose the first 15 or 20 minutes of every group because of people still coming in, grabbing a chair, finding a place, oops! now we've gotta make the circle bigger, everybody scoot back. I'm sorry, what were you saying about your family telling you to go to hell? I know it's stupid, I know it's sad, but if they didn't have that 15 minute cutoff period, people wouldn't respect the start time.

Or maybe you could have a more reasonable, "We're not going to rearrange the chairs for people who show up late" policy and a "If you make a lot of noise and disrupt things you'll have to leave" policy, instead of just booting out nice people who had problems with traffic.



And yes, the not-for-profit group that administers our group and a few other trans groups has to pay for the room for the time we're using it. We have an hour and a half, and then they tell us to get the f*** out because there's another group that needs it for a meeting.

Again, I think I'd be looking for a better location. There isn't a nice quiet gay church around that'll give you all the time you want and charge less?

[Elsa Larson]

Seems to me that shunning latecomers is a control situation.
Not a friendly way to deal with people who may be very frightened.

I recall belonging to a large support group that drew over 100 persons to monthly meetings.
It was common for a few first timers to get as far as the parking lot, then stay in their cars for the evening - afraid to come inside.

[Heatherx75]

@Raquel: To be honest with you, I've been late to that meeting before, at least as late as Melissa was, and they didn't boot me out. That was a different facilitator, though. Like I said in my original post,


That was an old rule from before, they draw the line at 15 minutes, but that was the first time I've ever seen it enforced. I didn't think she'd really do it, to be honest.
And I felt
fairly upset about the way she booted you out, because I thought she was nicer to the girl who showed up 15 minutes before we finished. (Maybe she felt guilty.) With her she was just like, "meet us downstairs and we'll all go to the diner." because I thought since it was her first time coming a simple notification of the rules would have been appropriate. Someone who had been there before would know to just go hang out in the lobby and we'd all head to the diner later, and after that possibly a queer bar. And a lot of people just do that. I imagine someone will bring it up with her at some point, if they haven't already, because a lot of people weren't too nuts about it either. I don't like it very much, but I can see the rationale.

As for the location issues, I don't know a lot about that because I'm not involved in the organization beyond going to the groups, but the glbt center, for all it's problems has a very friendly atmosphere, is a very comfortable place to be and we have a lot of events and other kinds of trans related meetings there. I don't think there's a place in that neighborhood (the West Village) that's going to let you rent out anything for "as long as you want" while charging you less. So while I don't know all the facts, I imagine it's a best overall solution.

And yes, the group is ridiculously large, and because of that we have a piece of paper with the topic of the day on it and you have to wait to be called on and there's no crosstalking allowed and the reason it's like that is because the times we've tried to be more lax about it all hell broke loose. People have put forth solutions to these problems, they haven't been implemented for whatever reason I don't want to delve into right now, in fact we spent a whole session last week bitching about how the group was being run. If I seem a little defensive, it's because some people have cast aspersions when they don't know all the facts.

[Jessinthesprings]

Again, I think I'd be looking for a better location. There isn't a nice quiet gay church around that'll give you all the time you want and charge less?

I'd bet there would be a free venue somewhere such as a local Pride Center

[Karen564]

I see both sides too..
I know it doesn't sound like a very supportive group asking you to leave because you just so happened to be tardy, but if that's their rules, then that's the way it is, but now you know to be on time for the next meeting..


Whole thing is on these support group meetings is, and especially that one for having such a large attendance for a support group is, the ones that ARE on time dont feel there getting what they came for if people are comming in & going as they please..it can be very distracting for the whole group.. a small support group can be more flexible on this but the larger ones simply cant..



Dont feel bad heather, nobody reads what I write either..

I just think many here dont understand what's it like when you have that many in your group or how it works, I dont know what your time limit is for your group is, but the few I've been in seem too short as it is, so any disruption for whatever reason that takes 5- 10 min here, 5- 10 min there, and so on times 4 or 5, that adds up to 20 - 50 minutes Lost!!, and before you know it, the meeting is over!!, so unfortunately,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Nope, I'm going to stop right here & shut up, and let the others figure it out on their own..I matters well talk to a wall.....sorry..

I'm pretty sure this thread will be closed very soon anyways,

[Sally24]

I was told, "I'm sorry, you have to go. I'm sorry."

The only problem I have was she didn't try to explain why, or that you could just hang out outside and wait for them to finish. If they want to be strict on the late comers, and I have no problem with that, she should have a card explaining why they have to do that. Then she wouldn't have to waste time and create a distraction for the group. They just need to put a little thought into how they address the issue of people interupting the session.

[sherri52]

If it was only for the night I can understand the people throwing you out. They should have explained quickly as they did. Being 1/2 hr late you have missed alot of the conversations and it would be unfair to those who were on time to have to recap taking up some of thier time trying to get you to understand what has happened so far. If it was to be a permanent eviction then they might as well close shop all together as they can't help those that aren't there.

[Kitty Sue]

I believe that is the wrong way for a support group to operate. I have been involved with various 12 step programs for years.

A support group with long time members should feel secure enough in who they are that do not turn the door on a new person/potential member. (1)I would definitely find a new group. (2) I would suggest that this particular group have a serious discussion on what the importance of reaching out to the new comers.

A new member may arrive late, after finally working up the courage to enter the room. For a new comer to enter, only to be thrown out is, in my opinion very sad and even egotistical.

[trannie T]

It is rude to be late to an appointment. It is even ruder to remove someone fromthe meeting for being late. A person in charge of a support group should have some basic social skills.

[Kitty Sue]

It is rude to be late to an appointment. It is even ruder to remove someone fromthe meeting for being late. A person in charge of a support group should have some basic social skills.

Very well put.

[Empress Lainie]

In our group being late is no big deal, some have to occasionally leave early too. No one is castigated in any way for being late of leaving early.

I wouldn't even go to a group like that once I saw them do that.

[Jessinthesprings]

A thought ththat just came to me. It's considered rude to be late when you make an appointment. However, you make an appointment to suite your schedule. A support group makes the schedule to suite the moderators or the majority of members. This group is asking for a one size fits all for everyone. In a situation like this there is a need for some flexability.

[Veronica_Jean]

Hi,

I tend to agree that asking someone to leave is simply bad policy.

If the group is that big then how does anyone get to say anything. Hmm lets see, 40 people at 15 mins each is 10 hours. So for everyone to say anything in 1.5 hrs would be more like 2 mins each.

It seems to me that breaking things into smaller groups would be both a much better idea and far less disruptive for those that are no there quite when everyone else is.

The idea is to provide support and understanding rather than anything else. Unless this is run by a clinic where it is a substitute for actual therapy or in addition to one on one sessions.

Veronica

[RylieCD]

Were is the support if they are not going to welcome people? It sounds like it was more disruptive for them to stop and recognize the late comer then to just allow you to come in and quietly sit and listen. If there is that big of a problem with being late they should have had someone posted at the door or addressed it at a break. it doesnt sound like a support group if the firstthink they tell you is leave?

[Raquel June]

I tend to agree that asking someone to leave is simply bad policy.

Well of course you'd say that. You're the only one who ever shows up later than I do to meetings.
:heehee:

[divamissz]

If there is a "no late arrivals" policy, it should be in their contact information. Either lock the door, or post someone to let people know what the policy is.

If you don't have a published policy, if someone walks in and for whatever reason you don't want latecomers to disturb the meeting, explain it to the person politely.

If you can't be arsed to have some manners, you don't deserve to run a group.

And she should be SO glad it was you, not me, she did that to.

[sandra-leigh]

The group I go to welcomes any member (or sincere guest) whenever they show up (or finally make it to the meeting place after primping for an hour in the bathroom, not having been able to change at home.)

These days I'm often about half an hour late -- and then might end up being the one saying, "Shouldn't we be getting started?" It's not that I want to be late, but I work until 6pm, the bus gets me home at 6:39, and to be sure of getting to the meeting by the nominal start time, I would have to grab my already-prepared things and be at the bus stop going back downtown by 6:51 (the 7:08 bus from home would get me there at least 4 minutes late.)

One of the board members is routinely two hours late. We don't tell her off: instead we exclaim, "It's Mary! She's managed to make it!" and then over-crowd her, so many people wanting to talk to her. Tell her off for being late?? Not a chance -- she personally founded the club, ran it out of her basement as long as was practical, and is our best recruiter by far -- and when she arrives, it is after -already- having worked 14 hours that day. We are her family, and we welcome her home when-ever she can make it.


But then, we aren't a support group: we are a social group, and our idea of "support" is to make people feel welcome and accepted and wanted no matter when they show up. If that's 3 hours late, then at least they cared enough about the group to come. And as a result of our policy of making people feel welcome and that we are happy to see them, we have one of the largest percentage turnouts of any CD group we know. There are different kinds of support: our group practices the "We've missed you, and we're glad to see you tonight" variety.

[Melissa A.]

I went back this week and had a really nice experience. It's a very welcoming group. What happened last week was, I believe, one person overreacting to what can be a logistical problem(many people showing up late and disrupting precious and limited time), and is not representative of my overall experience thus far. I really didn't expect so many and such passionate reactions, both here and elsewhere. Thank you so much, everyone, for your participation. It gave me alot to think about. Heather is right. This group is filled with wonderful and caring women. (and you're one of them, sister! :) )

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Heatherx75]

Back at ya, sis. :hugs::)

[Eleanor M]

I think they were unkind to throw you out.:hugs:

[Nicole Erin]

I would have told them that I completely understood their position, I would have profusely and sincerely apologized for being so thoughtless, then I would have politely asked who wanted to be first in line to kiss my fu*king ass.

Karen :g1:
:doh: Folks you know Karen would say it too.

Yeah they were a bit harsh. The lead COULD have said "We start at whatever o'clock normally, just have a seat..." and let the meeting continue.

Ya know, different groups have different agendas and levels of structure and respect. I like one of them we have here in Indy cause people are welcome to come or go as they please, and while we don't have a strict agenda, they do cover a few things for those interested. We don't have fighting and no one noses into the persoonal lives of members. A laid back group.

There are a lot of strictly structured groups out there and I don't get it. I mean a support group should be a place to dress, be yourself without worry, kick back, laugh, enjoy. Why do some of them have an agenda that follows the strictness of the military?

[DarleneCD]

It IS disruptive when people show up late. It's a big, noisy room with an echo, and it makes a lot of noise just to walk across the floor. It's hard to hear people talk. We lose the first 15 or 20 minutes of every group because of people still coming in, grabbing a chair, finding a place, oops! now we've gotta make the circle bigger, everybody scoot back........... I feel like our facilitator runs things like a nazi schoolmarm at times, but in a group that large, some people don't always respect the group and what we're trying to do. And yes, the not-for-profit group that administers our group and a few other trans groups has to pay for the room for the time we're using it. We have an hour and a half, and then they tell us to get the f*** out because there's another group that needs it for a meeting.


These are all good reasons for change....

Excuses are no match for good management and change..

Make Melissa's misfortune an opportunity for change not one of discipline...

There is always a better way.

Good Luck

[morgan pure]

Melissa,

Whoever kicked you out of that meeting was wrong and to say the least unfeeling.

I'm in NJ, close to the Village and was planning on going to the meeting at the Center. I hope the meeting wasn't there. I have known some ts's who rather that assume the best of both sexes, chose the worst.

Funny, I've found that hormones open the heart to an extraordinary degree. They have made me much more sensitive to the needs of those around me.

M

[morgan pure]

Disruptive? My universe is disruptive. Oh God, it is the Center. Maybe 2 small groups would be more manageable.

[Kerigirl2009]

Personally for me, I would have left but not without at least being a little disruptive, First meetings to me would be very hard to get the courage to do and to be told to leave, I would be offended by this rule. Rules are fine but for first timers VERY STUPID.
I can kinda relate as I have been trying to get involved with the local CD group TRI ESS in minneapolis. For over 6 weeks I sent email after email stating I would like to attend and see what it is all about but I was not comfortable about having info sent to my home as my children do not know. They finally sent me an invite albeit the meeting was to start Saturday at 4pm I got the e-mail around 10pm friday and a call around noon on saturday.

I really wanted to attend HOWEVER it was my sons birthday and this was more important so I told the contact person I would try but at the earliest I could possibly attend was around 7pm then I found out where it was so I would nit be able to get their until atleast 7:30 I didn't make it (long B-Day party) Hopefully, someday they will contact me again as I still want to go but what a pain in the butt for someone who has never been to a meeting.

[morgan pure]

My experiences with Tri-S people have always been bad. They seem to hate queers.

We must not do to ourselves what the world does to us. We're here to serve, not to punish.

[Raquel June]

My experiences with Tri-S people have always been bad. They seem to hate queers.

We must not do to ourselves what the world does to us. We're here to serve, not to punish.

True, but Tri-Ess makes it pretty clear on their site:


What is Tri-Ess?

Tri-Ess is an educational, social and support group for heterosexual crossdressers

They don't want transgendered people. They don't want bisexuals or homosexuals. They have an very narrow view of what a crossdresser is supposed to be.

The only reason I can even guess why they might exist is to be sort of a crossdressing apologist group trying to reassure their wives that they're totally hetero and totally masculine, which is an odd thing for a guy in a dress to be adamant about.

[Beth-Lock]

Ok, what's everyone's opinion on this? I ask because I can see both sides. Last night, I went to a trans support group for the first time. .... I knew I was running quite late....1/2 hour late.... One of the women said, "are you just getting here?" I nodded, and was told, "I'm sorry, you have to go. I'm sorry." After a split second of mild shock, I nodded and walked out. ....

After I was told to leave, I was pretty pissed off. When I told my closest friend, who couldn't make it, what happened, she was furious. She still is. (She's, ummm, let us say, not one to beat around the bush, ever, at all!) And I do see her point. Let's say you're a transsexual, just coming to grips with who you are. Maybe you can't afford or find a therapist yet. Maybe your family has thrown you out. You have money problems. You're lonely and distraught, and all you really want is to find some people to talk to and relate to. Or maybe you're afraid to be out in the world. So you go to great lengths to get ready, steel yourself for a scary, but hopefully positive experience, where you hope to find people to relate to, and maybe make a friend or two, and because you show up late you are immediately told to leave. Is that all that supportive?

.... I guess a couple of people showed up even later than me, and were also asked to leave.

Melissa:)
I had trouble getting in with the local group too. In my case, the reason given was that they wanted to screen people out since it was a sensitive, confidential sort of thing. Maybe they just wanted to meet you first and talk to you a bit, and get to know you, before letting you join the others. (Journalists have been known to sneak in on a pretext, and do an exposee, for just one example.) In my case, things eventually changed when a new group of people started running the group.
I was thinking that they would welcome you too, if you are able to go early and go through the hoops, and that is what apparently happened.

[Missy Tanya]

Hell ya I would have been p**sed. Hell have no fury like a woman dress to party and the party over before it begins. They would have had one upset big-o-girl wheel ding, a big purse around.

I live 40 miles from the nears Support Group. by the time I get off work, clean up, get pretty, which takes some time in it's self, and find all the required girly stuff. Drive 40+ miles in late rush hour traffic, I'm sometimes late. I receive friendly waves, smiles and take an open chair and wait time my time to "check in" Then we have a break and all get up an chat, hug, bathroom breaks, and get back in touch with each other. Then the main discuss starts for the evening. I one year ago if I would have be shown the door the first time I walked in 1/2 hour late, I would have never came out of the back of the closet again. Now 1 year later and 14+ trips out into the big blue sky, I've had the greatest times, and made many new friends. That except Tanya for who she is, not what she is.

Just my thoughts, Tanya