bi-gendered and the real me.

[Sara82]

I think this probably applies to most of us, with the exception of our mtf and ftm friends but I feel that I'm mostly caught between genders, and I'm ok with that. I don't have any real strong desire to transition completely to a female, nor do I have any desire to be extremely masculine. But If anything I lean more towards feminine.

Despite how I present myself on these forums, I have no desire to venture out in the world as a wannabe girl dressed in my silly wigs, over the top makeup, and major revealing dance club clothing or to even be referred to as Julia.Becoming Julia and sharing her with all of you has been merely a fun past-time, done within the privacy of my own home, but its not what I want or even who I truly am. And I think of Julia as being similar to that of playing a rpg game, where Im just taking on the role of some fantasy character, the keyword being fantasy, and not real life. Despite spending a decent amount of time and money "leveling" Julia up (sorry for the bad rpg reference lol!!) She is nothing more than a projection of my own internal feminine feelings and perhaps what I consider my own ideal female partner.

To get to the real me and the one I present to the world. I have started creating a more androgynous appearance for myself including the way I dress for everyday, and the way I groom myself. And I can see myself longterm as a very feminine androgynous man, without any secret lifestyle of crossdressing behind closed doors, with no stash of wigs, high-heels and party dresses and no weekend get-away dress-up sessions at a tranny/gay club. I don't want to live two lives, and I dont have some different persona when I'm wearing different gender appropriate clothing. Out in the world I have no desire to pass as a women, but only to have people wonder about me.

Is bi-gendered the right term for all of this? I'm not really sure where I fit in the huge land of labels and titles lol. Is it also wrong of me to consider things like mild hormone treatment, and slight facial surgeries, to become more androgynous on the outside and to give my own internal feminine a sense of peace, by knowing she isn't being buried by my own manly features.

thanks!

[deja true]

Julia, I think you've hit on one of the very best benefits of this site for a lot of us ... the great mass of "undecided" ones.

People don't learn very well from being lectured, but we learn very quickly from our own experiences and from hearing of the experiences of others. ...And it seems that the hundreds of stories and opinions you've absorbed here (both positive and negative) are helping you to determine your own place in the gender universe!

Who knew there were so many options beyond "man" or "woman"? Even beyond "straight", "gay" or "bi"?

Don't fret over labels, hun. Define yourself on your own terms and use a label if you want.

As to procedures, I think as long as you are totally aware of all the long and short term consequences that any operation or med regime can bring, you are perfectly capable of making those decisions for yourself. What you need for your own well-being is up to you.

Go forward, Julia ...

"Oh happiness! Our being's end and aim..." Alexander Pope

:)

[Angie G]

Julia if that's what you want for you then go for it Just be sure any real change to your body is what you really do want Hun. After all it;s not like just taking a skirt off. And I for one will be here for you whatever you wish to do.:hugs:
Angie

[Karren H]

Terms and labels don't mean a thing... (if you ain't got that swing... do op do op..) ohhhh where was I..... It doesnt mater what you call it because its a variable spectrum between 100% male and 100% female..... imho....

[carolinoakland]

I think the term you're looking for here is " Gender Queer. " meaning that you are comfortable in either gender presentation. And keeping in mind that presentation is not the same thing as preference. I think by your writing that you have a clear picture of who, and what gender you are, my only wish is the same as the one for my child... be happy. Carol

[Byllie]

Terms and labels don't mean a thing... (if you ain't got that swing... do op do op..) ohhhh where was I..... It doesnt mater what you call it because its a variable spectrum between 100% male and 100% female..... imho....
Well said!

I agree, labels are just that ... labels. They do not truly describe the person. I love onion soup, but could only begin to tell you how many variations on that recipe I've been served. I guess, like life, it's all in the seasoning.

[Rachel_Red]

I'm sure for each person its differnt. For some its a choice of style, for others its how people treat them and so on. In my opinion I'm human, my gender means only one thing... its how I reproduce. Besides that I'm a human regardless of what bits of clothing I put on.

[Jenny Gurl]

Be it information on how to dress more convincing, a group of friends to share experiences and ideas with, or simply searching for who they really are. I believe we are all a work in progress. All I can say is be certain of any changes you make that are permanent, and enjoy life no matter who you are inside.

[Wen4cd]

You're really asking the 'million-dollar question,' aren't you?

I could think of Kat like that, but it would be rather fruitless to my sense of contentment and happiness, and this would in turn affect others who care about me. When she's driving, there is no sense of thrill, or of acting, only relief that I can finally relate to other living things.

It has nothing to do with clothes, gender presentation, or even the illusion of gender at all anymore, and more to do with the Golden Rule.

She's not my 'ideal female partner,' and yet she is. Duality is cute. She's closer to the result of 'Anima projected onto Self,' the spiritwife.

The important thing is that 'She' treats people the way I would have people treat me, almost automatically, and I can't see anything wrong with it, no matter how hard I look.

It's a far, far cry from 'pretending to be a character' in my own perception, but really, all it takes is for that thought to be seriously uttered, and it would become exactly that. Funny how the mind works, innit? It's a question of being the person you want to be. I'm her sometimes, and most of the times I'm her, I am not 'dressed' at all. She's another word for me.

I think you're working towards the middle, at least with appearances and presentation, and that's good. I would just remind you that the 'character' you play, whether you are currently identifying with it or not, still comes from within you, so by definition, it is a valid part of you. It is you.

"Real" is just a question of affirmation.

edit: sorry for talking about myself. I am happy for you that you're going your own way and figuring yourself out. It's one of the best things we can do for others, is try to be ourselves.

[melissacd]

Julia,

I am very much the same. Although at some point I want not to have to dress is a pseudo male mode (feminine male) but rather always express as a female.

Melissa

[LisaM]

Julia,

I loved your post! It just confirms what I have always believed is a wide spectrum in the TG world.

I have a tremendous desire to be out in the real world presenting as Lisa--so I guess i am different than you. It is what has driven me from my earliest memories.

But I understand how you feel and I am happy that you have found where you want to go.

I wish we all were capable of the same.

[Byllie]

In my opinion I'm human, my gender means only one thing... its how I reproduce.
Actually, gender is *not* determined by your chromosomes alone. Research is beginning to show that there other factors at play. Remember ...

Gender does not equal genetic sex, and neither equals sexual preference. Oh what a kettle of fish!

[sherri52]

Julia we each have to travel our own road. Looks like you found yours.:hugs:

[Satrana]

She is nothing more than a projection of my own internal feminine feelings and perhaps what I consider my own ideal female partner. I would say that was true for most CDs who do not suffer from gender dsyphoria.


I don't want to live two lives, and I dont have some different persona when I'm wearing different gender appropriate clothing. Out in the world I have no desire to pass as a women, but only to have people wonder about me. Sounds like healthy reasoning to me. Split personas are hardly the best way to proceed. If you can get away with combining your halves into an androgynous whole then go for it. You only have one life and the clock is ticking.


Is it also wrong of me to consider things like mild hormone treatment, and slight facial surgeries, to become more androgynous on the outside Your body is your own. Just as you have the right to wear whatever clothes you want, you can alter your body to fit your needs. Just be sure that you give every decision sufficient thought since the effects are permanent.

[Cheshire Gummi]

I'm not caught between anything. This is not my entire life, it's a part of my life that I'm trying to figure out. I want to be known as a woman. That's all. I'm hiding that side of me away, absolutely, but, once again, "Fran" is not a whimsical woman who lives in my mind and gets out when I let her. Fran is a bloody pen name that I'm waving around because I'm afraid of showing the world who I want to be. I know that's cowardly, but I don't think I'm "undecided" on anything except whether or not hiding forever will destroy me.

But I don't live to be perceived as a woman, either. I live so people will listen to my music and read my books; feel all the beautiful, tragic, terrifying, and wholly enchanting feelings that I've felt through the work of others and the experiences in my life.

Conversely, I believe we will eventually shed our preconceived notions of sexuality. I don't think we're ahead of the curb on that one, either, if you'll consider how important the concept and perception of a "Woman" is to most of us.

I hope I don't sound too bitter. I'm really not. I'm just feeling rather psychologically mechanical right now. Maybe I need some sleep.

[Sara82]

Firstly, thank you for everyone's words of encouragements.

Secondly thank you Wen4CD for your psychological type insights, I always enjoy reading your posts, and they really make me think about things. I love when you say "all it takes is for the words to be utterred, and it becomes exactly that". I think this idea is brilliant, and really shows the intense power of the mind, and how it can alter our perception of reality. I still feel as though Julia is like my "Ideal Self", whereas my "Real Self" is a much more practical approach to my blending of male and female personas. According to the Humanists we all have an "Ideal Self".. I wish I was Taller, I wish I more outgoing, I wish I was prettier, I wish I was more self confident, but I bet the humanists never considered what this meant in terms of people who are transgendered. Anyhow obviously becoming your Ideal self isn't always possible or realistic, but we can work on many aspects to become closer, and this is where we find our "real self". But I still can't deny that I thoroughly enjoy becoming Julia.


Even though I've only recently began accepting who I am, perhaps I'm just rushing to put a label on myself in an attempt to not feel confused and to lessen the confusion for others around me who are wondering what is happening to me. Perhaps I need to stop thinking so much, and just live.

:):):):daydreaming::daydreaming:

[Sarah Doepner]

Even though I've only recently began accepting who I am, perhaps I'm just rushing to put a label on myself in an attempt to not feel confused and to lessen the confusion for others around me who are wondering what is happening to me. Perhaps I need to stop thinking so much, and just live.

Julia,

Although we are told quite often that "Gender is between the ears" and it forces us to think about it, the idea to do a little more living is a good idea as well. Give those thoughts a chance to percolate a little and then match that real world experience with what's going on between the ears. I don't know roll playing games, but I understand looking for balance. It sounds like that's where you are headed. Just take time to enjoy the journey and stay in touch.

[Marcyme]

I definately see all of us as fitting in somewhere on a spectrum of gender and sexuality. Some one here said they see it as a 3 dimensional spectrum. I think that is a good way to look at it. Over time we all define ourselves and that definition does not always (seldom) matches the labels.
I fall somewhere closer to you. My daily presentation is a reflection of who I am. There are parts of who I am that are masculine and parts that are feminine. I don't hide either. Some days I feel more masculine, and some days more feminine and I express that in my appearence. But there is always both there. I am not 2 different people. My genes are male, my personality is both and neither. (My jeans are boh, too)
Just be you. Nothing more, nothing less.

[gender_blender]

Yes, I feel "bi-gender" is relatively close to what you're going for. I identified as "bi-gender" in college when I began passing well for both genders. It's for people who pass well and who aren't afraid to appear in public as either, but also wish to maintain a level of segregation between the two modes of appearance.

I believe "Gender Queer" is more reserved for people who don't pass for the gender they want (by choice or through biological means) and choose to live in between genders at all times anyway.

[Dana]

I think this probably applies to most of us, with the exception of our mtf and ftm friends but I feel that I'm mostly caught between genders, and I'm ok with that. I don't have any real strong desire to transition completely to a female, nor do I have any desire to be extremely masculine. But If anything I lean more towards feminine.

Despite how I present myself on these forums, I have no desire to venture out in the world as a wannabe girl dressed in my silly wigs, over the top makeup, and major revealing dance club clothing or to even be referred to as Julia.Becoming Julia and sharing her with all of you has been merely a fun past-time, done within the privacy of my own home, but its not what I want or even who I truly am. And I think of Julia as being similar to that of playing a rpg game, where Im just taking on the role of some fantasy character, the keyword being fantasy, and not real life. Despite spending a decent amount of time and money "leveling" Julia up (sorry for the bad rpg reference lol!!) She is nothing more than a projection of my own internal feminine feelings and perhaps what I consider my own ideal female partner.

To get to the real me and the one I present to the world. I have started creating a more androgynous appearance for myself including the way I dress for everyday, and the way I groom myself. And I can see myself longterm as a very feminine androgynous man, without any secret lifestyle of crossdressing behind closed doors, with no stash of wigs, high-heels and party dresses and no weekend get-away dress-up sessions at a tranny/gay club. I don't want to live two lives, and I dont have some different persona when I'm wearing different gender appropriate clothing. Out in the world I have no desire to pass as a women, but only to have people wonder about me.

Is bi-gendered the right term for all of this? I'm not really sure where I fit in the huge land of labels and titles lol. Is it also wrong of me to consider things like mild hormone treatment, and slight facial surgeries, to become more androgynous on the outside and to give my own internal feminine a sense of peace, by knowing she isn't being buried by my own manly features.

thanks!

For the first six weeks of "life" in gestation, that is to say the womb, you were female. The 'default' model is female.

Nature, requires an extra "jilt' to create a male. That is to say that there must be a hormonal wash to turn a female fetus into a male fetus.

This includes antonomically as well as the brain.

It goes without saying that women and men think and perceive the world differently and priortize things differently.

But yet? There are men that are more like women, and women that are more like men than say so called "normal" men and women.

Its not what you've got between your legs nor on your chest that makes you a man or a woman?

But what you've got between your ears?

The problem comes into question when you factor in cultural and societial definitions of what is "normal"

[Satrana]

For the first six weeks of "life" in gestation, that is to say the womb, you were female. The 'default' model is female.


Untrue. The fetus up until the 10th week is neither male nor female and does not possess genitalia. The default is gender neutral until the sex is chosen.

[Stephanie Stephens]

Good topic Julia; I think it has become my life's goal to become a equal blend of male and female. Maybe that is the ultimate destination of man, after all man has x and y chromosomes. It is well for me to be able to sit and chat with women on their level and then do the same with men. I have true sexual desires for both men and women. I did not ask for the feelings I have, it is just who I am and I would not trade my experiences for anything. If I had a bag of feminine dust, I would sprinkle it onto all the way to macho men I know (including me), and I believe that the world would be a better place.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Julia, I think we have a very similar mindset, I recently stopped using the moniker "Alyssa" and just go by my real name now no matter how I'm dressed, and I stopped really worrying about "passing" because I'd still rather look like me no matter how I'm dressed as well.

I doubt I could look very Androgynous personally, but I think with the right elements I can pull off feminine looks even without hiding that I'm male.

I don't think we need to avoid things like trans-themed clubs or events though, just as long as we don't treat them like secret excursions. Afterall, sports fans hang out in sports bars sometimes without it being a double life, right?

[Sara82]

thanks for the new comments, glad to hear that i'm not alone.

@Dana, interesting stuff regarding biological chemistry. I always thought my feelings were more environmental as opposed to genetics. My father moved out of our home when I was fairly young, and as a result I was raised by my mother. I feel my personality shifted more towards feminine even though I struggled throughout my life to feel more masculine.

@ Stephanie, I enjoyed reading your post Steph, as I too have set a goal now to embrace both my feminine and masculine. I notice that I'm no longer homophobic, and feel more comfortable about my bi-sexuality. The major thing I want to work on is to always be true to myself, and never try and be someone else, just to please others. This has been a major issue all my life.