Breaking man habits

[Stephenie]

Over the years while trying to hide how I am from those around me and from myself, I started to do things in ways that were seen as masculine. Now I am finding it hard to stop and to do them as they should be done. Like smiling, I feel like smiling but ussually I wear a frown or neutral expression. Also talking with my hands and trying to walk with out looking like I am on the way to a fight.

How do you girls manage these issues?

[Aeva]

Practice is the only way really. I think hanging around people who encourage that sort of thing can hinder un-learning it. But be honest to yourself, and only do things that feel natural; keep with that, and you'll be fine.

[Anna the Dub]

It's hard, isn't it? Years and years (sometimes decades) of forcing yourself to behave in a masculine way so that it becomes second nature to you and it is very hard to overcome. I am still trying.

[Scotty]

Hang around more women, you'll pick it up, naturally.

[sherri52]

You have to practice smiling. As for talking with you hands, hold onto a clutch purse and you will see youself stopping.

[Lorileah]

Hang around more women,

that got me in trouble...:)



You have to practice smiling. As for talking with you hands, hold onto a clutch purse and you will see youself stopping.

I must hang with the wrong women, most use their hands when they talk. Sometimes I think CD's tend to over think this stuff. I see women who walk like truck drivers (and some are), I know women who rarely smile. Most women do not "throw" their hips when they walk. Sometime just go to a mall or someplace and watch...no one does all the stuff that makes you look like a man or woman...everyone does their own thing. When you over do or try to exaggerate something it just calls more attention to what you are trying to hide. Relax people, just relax. Don't over think the whole thing.

I do agree with Scottie though, you pick up habits from being around people.

[sempervirens]

It's hard because it's a fine line to walk. You don't want to appear too mannish, but you also don't want to act like an inflated caricature of a woman (if you're trying to pass, anyway). I think back to how I used to act in public and I flinch... after having acted like a guy for so long, I swung too far to the other extreme and looked silly. Now, I'd say a little goes a long way. Otherwise, it's just taking the time to acculturate, and who you spend that time with.


When you over do or try to exaggerate something it just calls more attention to what you are trying to hide. Relax people, just relax. Don't over think the whole thing.
I agree. Just do your best, and relax.

[Jennifer in CO]

Its not going to happen over night so don't get onto yourself too hard as you quit doing things "manly". Focus changing things one at a time if that helps. That way you can be alerted when something is going to happen and you do it "softer" or more ladylike. Not to sound crude, but its like peeing standing vs sitting. You made a consensus effort to sit every time you went till sitting became second nature. You weren't thinking about how you walk, talk or wink while your thinking about going to the bathroom. A funny to this is everytime I sit I smooth my skirt under me. Course, I haven't worn a dress or skirt out in so long I don't remember but I still smooth my skirt (aka pants) when I sit...in either mode.

Jenn

[Hope]

Sometimes I think CD's tend to over think this stuff. I see women who walk like truck drivers (and some are), I know women who rarely smile. Most women do not "throw" their hips when they walk. Sometime just go to a mall or someplace and watch...no one does all the stuff that makes you look like a man or woman...everyone does their own thing. When you over do or try to exaggerate something it just calls more attention to what you are trying to hide. Relax people, just relax. Don't over think the whole thing.

Yeah, certainly there are examples of women who clomp around like men, who frown constantly, who never wear make-up, who look like they are on their way to a fight, who wear short buzz cut hair, etc. And only very rarely will anyone ever question that they are women. But they all have one significant bonus going for them - they were born with all the right parts, never had excess testosterone coursing through their bodies wrecking its havoc, and were socialized as girls.

The rest of us have to learn to do these things - to exhibit gender appropriate markers for the gender we are presenting as, in the culture in which we are living - be it male or female. Should we over do them? Of course not. Will everyone pick and choose the same markers? Of course not. Will every one of us pick the mannerisms and behaviors we are best at? Probably not. Will every one of us be equally good at the mannerisms we select? Not likely.

But if we want to pass, or at least not stick out, or even if we want to be accepted by society at large as the gender we present as - we have to do our part to present as that gender - and our behavior is a part of that. A big part. There certainly are gendered behaviors, mannerisms and even vocabularies.

Is it easy? Hell no. There are a million little things that we as boys were never taught to do - or even more likely, actively dissuaded from doing. We all had to practice being men - and we have to practice being women too, or at least looking like the women we are. Just like all women do. That does not mean that we are all going to do it the same way - but it does mean that we all have to do it.

How do you break the man habits? Practice practice practice. Then once you have broken the man habits - installing the girl habits takes - practice, practice, practice.

[noeleena]

Hi....
I did not pick up many . as i did not like men so did not follow in there ways ,.. to start with i was too gentle . soft. careing . not in any way that hard male sort of what i saw. macho kind just was not me . so i did not really have to learn much .
Thats not to say there wernt things to learn . i did not have to strive at all . i was pretty much accepted as a woman .
well a friend said to me . she knew what i was doing & said your a woman . now . then BE one ...ooop s . . oh yea i am . & then .....it sunk in just get on being & living as one .& grow being a woman . the group i am involved with is very accepting of me as a woman . allso there comes trust its not how we dress .walk . or talk . make up. clothes . its you as a person . & your own acceptance . then those other details can be taken care of ,. time of cause for some of you . if it was looks then i would not be in the running . as many here would out do me hands down .
I work on acceptance getting on with people . being interested in them . & having a good time .& enjoying thier company . & get on doing what ever .
...noeleena...

[Stephenie]

Thank you all,

There is alot of good advice here. Plus the incouragement really helps.

[CharleneT]

What works for me is to pick one thing and work on mostly just it. After a while it becomes habit and you do not have to "think" it to do it. Then move on ... of course this is a slow way and can be a bit herky-jerky as you get more and more habits built up. Patience and practice. I also believe that trying to do very normal things helps, yes clubs are fun and all, but going to the grocery store is how you really learn to pass.

[Empress Lainie]

I think I come by it naturally. Did work on the walk a little, and have been told its sexy. Sometimes I walk too fast and forget to do the swing. Otherwise conversationally I seem to have no problem, talk with women anyway 97% of the time, and have complete acceptance as a woman.

If anything, I dress better than most women, don't like pants or jeans particularly, but capri's have sort of grown on me lately since I wear them to work.

I think one thing I can pass on is to be flexible in your movements and not rigid, walking or otherwise. Swing your shoulders a little from side to side and your butt will follow. Men walk stiffly.

[Midnight Skye]

Wait a second... Woman don't talk with their hands - looks around puzzled. Where I grew up it was ALWAYS the girls who were talking with their hands... and I've always been heavily accused of the femininity I express when talking with my hands.

As for the other things... practice makes perfect. I found smiling the easiest. The second I'm in feminine mode, dressed up feeling great... its hard to wipe the smile off. And walking like your looking for a fight, I found a pair of heels kills any manly walk. Not that wearing heels automatically makes you a graceful woman. But it certainly encourages a more feminine stride and attitude.

But as others said, you really just want to find a feminine side of yourself. Woman vary drastically, and crossdressing/transgendered woman do as well. If we take on an average woman's characteristics we certainly blend in easier, but I think you'll find being how you naturally feel, plus a few feminine touches will earn you acceptance in those who matter.

[Myojine]

Over the years while trying to hide how I am from those around me and from myself, I started to do things in ways that were seen as masculine. Now I am finding it hard to stop and to do them as they should be done. Like smiling, I feel like smiling but ussually I wear a frown or neutral expression. Also talking with my hands and trying to walk with out looking like I am on the way to a fight.

How do you girls manage these issues?

i cant seem to keep a frown to manythings are to funny or amuze me, i seem to notice the little cute things about a settign that make me smile... unless im crying...
talking with your hands? thats not a female thing? so doing that would take away from the appreaance of being emfemme?
me i got that ARMY walk... but i dont tend to swaggar and i comments all the time how i "run like a girl" from the other fatheaded pricks in my platoon.( idunno if that can equate for a good thing or not...) so anyway the talking with the hands thing... thats a manly thing to do?

[RockyMountainRachel]

I've only been out about 3 weeks but it's takes about an hour or two for the feminine instinct to kick in. Sometimes, it's when I see my reflection or shadow when I am walking down the street. I think it takes getting comfortable with people and then you can lower your guard. I'm just thankful when someone talks to me - as there are often many eyes upon me and the other person. It just takes time. I expected myself to act feminine the first day out - I'm 3 weeks in and I'm too embarrassed to use my feminine voice. I'm afraid of being a 'fake' girl but it's all my own issues that are blocking my self-expression.

All in Good Time,
RmR

[Manda]

Thank you Everyone Im so glad this thred was posted, everyones suggestions and comments will help me. Thank you Stepanie for posting this and thank you Charlene for your help. Manda

[MarieTS]

Ladies--there are so many excellent points in this simple but very important thread. Personnally, I've found that the sheer deleight of being enfemme takes over and guides my actions. The guy mannerisms intuitively disappear and are replaced by what Hope so accurately described as "gender appropriate markers." I find myself naturally exhibiting the skirt smoothing move, the leg cross, etc. To continue on another of her points, I've almost forgotten (thankfully :heehee:) how to tinkle while standing. And Charlene makes a great point on how those who are initially uncomfortable with demonstrating the right mannerisms "should just concentrate on 1 thing at a time." And I totally agree that doing the simple things such as "going to the grocery store" really teach us to move the correct way because it puts us in the appropriate setting and those of us who truly identify as females will learn to do things correctly in the same manner that girls learn to adopt womanly actions. Katlyn, I enjoyed your bewilderment over the comment about women not using their hands because I had the same reaction: They use them a lot! It's just that they use them in an expressive manner as opposed to the directive posture males use. And Rachel--you are spot-on regarding "voice." As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, womanly physical actions are second nature as I truly feel more natural presenting as a gal than a guy. However, voice is the final frontier. Maybe we can both learn to hurdle that Rocky Mountain frontier of "voice!" :hugs: to all!

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

With unlearning male habits it's observe, observe and observe then it's practice, practice and practice. Simple isn't it, well not that simple but that's the gist of it. Kimberly :battingeyelashes:

[Beth-Lock]

I am concentrating on my voice these days. But I am alone a lot of the time. So I am trying to think in a female voice.

[Karen564]

Ummmmmmmm, I use my hands when I talk, and I'm a woman... at least in my mind I am...lol

It's ok, it's just HOW you move you hands that makes the difference, thats all, it's hard to describe really, because it just came natural and didn't train for it, so for starters, just don't throw them around wildly and keep them closer to your body, elbows always in, and lower (just below your breast and or waist level, then use more twisting actions with your wrists more to upturn & downturn your hands..don't spread your fingers too much & dont move them too fast, move gracefully and stuff like that.

As far as walking, the best way to train is wear very high heels and a tight skirt that limits any long strides will cure you real fast...lol

It all boils down to relaxing more and hanging with lots of girls helps too...

[jenna_woods]

really lots of pratice, atching other women and being around them as much as posible,

[jennifer easton]

Stephenie girl, I'm right there with you, my whole life I've over compensated in every thing that I've done, now trying to walk with that little bounce and sway so you hips sway and your breast bounce all in time, and smile and move your shoulders geeeze, it would have been so easy to grow up that way, but like you say I catch my self walking like I'm going to a fight, and then throw in all that stuff that Karen564 said to do with your hands, I'll never get all this, can I make a cheat sheet and keep it up my sleeve? Jenn

[Starling]

When I wear a skirt, I smooth it under me as I sit. When I wear a wig, I brush the hair out of my eyes and shake my head to rearrange the layers. When I wear lipstick, I touch it up. When I wear heels, I take shorter, more delicate steps. When I wear stockings, I become conscious of how smooth and pretty my legs look. When I wear a bra and breast enhancements, I occasionally adjust myself to look balanced. It's a blinkin' miracle!

In other words, many female mannerisms come out of the clothing women wear and how they groom themselves. Just relax and concentrate on looking nice, which is what most FABs do, and stop thinking about playing a character. Then you'll at least pass as a person, rather than a muppet.

I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long, long way to go
Until I make my brother understand


:heehee: Lallie

[gagirl1]

Hang around more women, you'll pick it up, naturally.

Umm, no. I know you're trying to help, but it just.....doesn't.....work that way.

To the OP: just be yourself. The most important thing is to be comfortable with yourself. And that goes for anyone, cis/straight/queer/anyone. You will have to find the strength within yourself. Pixie dust does not fall when you hang out with other women.

[GypsyKaren]

This is something that I don't care much about and pay no attention to, I just let Karen be Karen. One thing I've noticed at Be-Alls and other trans get togethers is how hard everyone works at "being a woman", it actually cracks me up. Every movement is so practiced and rehearsed, it's like watching Westworld robots in slow motion, even Kat finds it odd and unlike any women she knows. If it's important to you then go for it, but I don't and manage quite well.

Karen :g1:

[Jenny Chen]

This is something that I don't care much about and pay no attention to, I just let Karen be Karen. One thing I've noticed at Be-Alls and other trans get togethers is how hard everyone works at "being a woman", it actually cracks me up. Every movement is so practiced and rehearsed, it's like watching Westworld robots in slow motion, even Kat finds it odd and unlike any women she knows. If it's important to you then go for it, but I don't and manage quite well.

Karen :g1:

I second that.

Jenny and the other me are exactly the same, they are both me so I don't see the necessity to change one or the other. After all if you try too hard you'll end up looking fake so just going with the flow works well for me.

[Jennifer Cox]

Last do I went to, I was told to keep my legs together :yippee:

[Starling]

My legs are almost always in the same room, at least.

:heehee: Lallie

[Stephenie]

I thinking the walking like your not looking for a fight and sitting with your legs together are some of the things that do mark you as male or female. Things that are taught to kids at an early age. But litrtle things that seem to piont male or female are also habit. Grooming in public, eating and things of this nature. I guess the old Finishing schools for young ladies must of taught these things.

[EmilyMI]

Admittingly I do need help with getting rid a lot of my male *habits*, especially in how I walk and just my manuarisms in general. Whenever I do sit especially in a skirt or a dress I do cross my legs all the time(always have done that, even when I am in my male mode), but I know once I keep on practicing and practicing it will be perfect :)

[AllieSF]

I agree with CharleneT. Pick one thing to practice on and then pick another. I always try to sit properly with legs close together and maybe at a slant. I now do that quite well. Now I am trying to sit softer, so to speak. I tend to sit and stand very erect. Sitting with a slight bend at the waist and then maybe a slight bend in the opposite direction at the shoulders softens my presentation. No Karren, I do not look like a male pretzel in a skirt. When practicing, you may need to overemphasize some to start to see and make a difference. Once you get the hang of it, you will loosen up and look much more natural.

To clarify why I do this. I want to have those female characteristics that help with my presentation. However, I do not want to be a woman, nor necessarily feel like one. I want to look and act like one so I blend in better and have more fun. In my current presentation, I still have tons of fun no matter how I look or act. But like most, I am a continual work in progress.

[kristinacd55]

I think when I'm dressed enfemme I feel feminine & therefore my habits become more feminine. And if I'm hanging around with women it's a lot easier to portray these feminine habits which I find are coming more & more naturally to me.
When I'm around my guy friends, fahget about it, there's lots of farting, burping & Tiger-like (oops, did I say that?) expressions being expressed.
BTW, I'm kidding about the last paragraph! :heehee: