Another Question

[susandrea]

Hi everyone!

I have another question for anyone interested in answering. This topic is brought up in nearly every thread so my asking it may seem naive, but I do have a reason.

Question:

If you don't ever go out dressed en femme, exactly what is it that keeps you from doing so that is worse than denying yourself that right?

In other words, is it at all possible that you are your own worst enemy when it comes to going out any way you want?

That's all. Thanks in advance for any answers, and if you want you can always PM me.

Susan :)

P.S. I'm asking this in a thoughtful way, not to incite a riot.

[Deborah]

This is why.

1) I don't want some macho egotistical a$$hole beating me up because he afraid of anything different just to impress his buddies.
2) Kids are not stupid. They can tell.
3) People's snotty comments
4) GG's who are jealous because of my exquisite taste.

[susandrea]

This is why.

1) I don't want some macho egotistical a$$hole beating me up because he afraid of anything different just to impress his buddies.
2) Kids are not stupid. They can tell.
3) People's snotty comments
4) GG's who are jealous because of my exquisite taste.

Have all those things happened to you on a regular basis when you went out en femme?

[Khriss]

-ridicule- ( negative reactions from family or freinds is a primary concern-)

[susandrea]

-ridicule- ( negative reactions from family or freinds is a primary concern-)

Have they already done that and continue to do it or do you just "know" that it would happen and therefore don't attempt it?

What I'm trying to get at here is the difference between perceived reactions faced by a dressed CD and ACTUAL ones.


For those of you who do go out en femme, did the ridicule eventually die down---at least among the people you know well?

And believe me, I am not unaware that there is danger out there. I'm trying to find out how much there really is as opposed to how much is mostly feared.

[Sharon]

I do go out now, although I am very selective about where I go.
Previously (and still to the extent of where I choose to go), it was simply a fear of being singled out and ridiculed, a much larger fear to me than any violence that may have resulted. Physical pain usually heals rather quickly, but emotional pain stays with me indefinitely.

[susandrea]

I do go out now, although I am very selective about where I go.
Previously (and still to the extent of where I choose to go), it was simply a fear of being singled out and ridiculed, a much larger fear to me than any violence that may have resulted. Physical pain usually heals rather quickly, but emotional pain stays with me indefinitely.

Okay...I understand. What I ask you now-- and I realize this may be a really tough question-- but is that emotional pain caused to you by a stranger's ignorant cruelty worse than the life-long constraints you put on yourself day in and day out by not going out any way you want, anywhere, any time?

Also, Sharon---have you ever been physically attacked for being a dressed CD or do you simply (and understandably) fear it?

And when you do go out to places you deem safe, are you still (often? rarely?) ridiculed as a CD? And what do people say to you? Do they say it directly or just loud enough for you to hear it?

[kristine239]

Yes, susandra, you ask all of the right questions. I have been trough almost every first timers fears and seen lots of girls with the same fears.

Over the years I have developed an "attitiude" It's My Sapce, So Bug Off. this thick skin as worked well for me.

The easiest way for a first timer, especially when you have a supporting SO, is going to one of the many TG conferences around the US. You never have a problem there because you are among firends.

My first time out, many years ago, was the Tiffinay Club outing in Provicetown, Mass. If found out that most of my fears were in me, not the general public. (I have a great story about that when a car full of teenagers pulled up beside me on the street one evening). Once I found out the fear was all me, I quickly over came it and the rest is history.

Hope I will see some of you girls at Southern Comfort, Fiesta or Transgender 2006 and let's talk about it.

Love Kristine

[geegee2]

This is why.

1) I don't want some macho egotistical a$$hole beating me up because he afraid of anything different just to impress his buddies.
2) Kids are not stupid. They can tell.
3) People's snotty comments
4) GG's who are jealous because of my exquisite taste.
first, you gotta let go, dont be pent up,people are going to say what tey want anyway whetere it hurts or not , so ignore them and tehy will most likely ignore you. keeping all that love you have created by being the girl that you are inside you will only cause more hurt, take a chance go out, find a friend who is aware of your girlie side take her with you, go where you feel comfotable and relax,you may find that people will not even notice just be yourself and be the girl you want to be luv,kisses,hugs GEEGEE2

[susandrea]

My first time out, many years ago, was the Tiffinay Club outing in Provicetown, Mass. If found out that most of my fears were in me, not the general public. (I have a great story about that when a car full of teenagers pulled up beside me on the street one evening). Once I found out the fear was all me, I quickly over came it and the rest is history.


Believe me, my intent and wonder is not to belittle what are real dangers out there. In some areas of the U.S. a CD could easily be killed by a gang of thugs, arrested by the police, ect., and there is always the possibility, even the likelihood, that a job could be lost and a career destroyed.

But I'm wondering if the "fear factor" could in some way be a built in emotion for a "typical" closeted crossdresser. I've read several posts that said the fear of getting caught was not necessarily a bad thing, and I'm just curious if the perceived feelings of persecution (real or overblown) could be part of the "feminine soul" that a closeted crossdresser develops, and that the fear (rather than the actual reality) becomes a vicious circle that is difficult to break.

In other words, after all is said and done, could the lifetime of self repression and a life only half led be any better than the risk of ridicule (however likely) by ignorant strangers and intolerant relatives? Is their opinion of you so important that it makes you willing to crush yourself for years or even decades?

This isn't really about negotiating with a SO but the world in general. I know every situation with an SO has it's own unique set of issues just like every marriage.

[celeste26]

Susandrea: The CD population is the largest group of self deluded, narcissistic and yet lonely people (in general) who would believe anything they wanted about themselves. The damage done just in the closet is enormous (even before they hit the street), and the relationships they have are very complex to say the least. I have never in my life read stories of CD beatings (at least in the Northwest where I live) of course it is possible they just dont make the papers or the news.

Of all the fears I have dealt with are generaly ones of humiliation and embarrassment. I have never come even close to physical confrontation from anyone anywhere. Anytime though when someone takes their most vulnerable situation (like CD)and opens it up for public viewing the perceived danger is far more than the actual danger.

Cant speak about the damage to myself being in the closet, there needs to be a separation or objective point of view to know things like that and I just dont have that kind of perception yet. The mirror lies to me all the time in the sense that I tell myself I look better than I really do. However staying at home, or in protected circumstances will always be percieved as safer.

Enough?

[StephanieCD]

fear

[susandrea]

Thank you Celeste for your answer.

*sigh* I don't know exactly what it is I'm looking for. Maybe it's the fact that for the last month I have been jumping through hoops of fire trying to find any studies done concerning the percentage of crossdressers in the States and in the world. There don't seem to be any. Only guesses.

And yet, nearly every week I come across a positive article about a transexual, and the gay movement has been picking up steam--slowly but steadily---over the last decade (maybe two steps forward and one step back, but at least they're moving ahead). Even drag queens have been positively portrayed in recent films (like "To Wong Foo..." or Priscilla, ect.) while crossdressing remains a "comedy act" like Mrs. Doubtfire or Tootsie. And I even see more going on with the "men in skirts" movement than I do for crossdressers (like the "Men in Skirts" exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 2003) and an organized march a couple years ago that included "Men in Skirts" from all over the world marching in NYC. http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/02/08/offbeat.men.skirts.ap/
I know there are conferences and support groups but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of grassroots action or public indignation calling for more rights and protections for crossdressers unless it's tied in with transgender groups. Maybe I've missed something. Actually I hope I've missed something! As far as I can tell, only three states have created any laws protecting crossdressers specifically.

Why the disparity? I know I'm still learning about all this and have a long way to go. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious. Mystified even, because I bet there are far more crossdressers out there than transexuals or even drag queens but I could be wrong. Why are they getting positive press while the stuff I see recently about crossdressers is usually about a bank robber in disguise? That's not exactly true, but sort of true.

One thing I have discovered to my delight is the warmth and caring of the people here, and the openness of feelings and willingness to share thoughts. I know it can't be easy---people from all over the world, all ages and different levels of all kinds, especially along the line of transgender. The fact that this forum can exist at all is a testament to the basic good nature not only of crossdressers but people in general. After I became aware (hello?) that you are wary of the occasional troll coming here, I then wondered this place wasn't bombarded by jerky teens, outraged religious groups, and others who couldn't contain their urge to inflict pain on something they didn't understand and therefore didn't like and wanted to stamp out. But that doesn't seem to be happening, at least not on any serious level.

I honestly think the world is gearing up for a change in attitude. As someone stated in another thread, now that celebrities like Beckham, Sting, and so many others are crossing the gender line things will change. I think that as soon as there is a big enough demand by men all along the line then clothing companies will jump into it, just like the skin care companies have done.

What I wonder is, will the world be ready for CDs before many CDs are ready for the world?

Hmmmm.....!

I just read a very interesting article over at Yvonne's Place that delt with this exact question and there isn't a real answer, but an interesting idea about wearing one's sexual desires out in the open for all to see and that's what caused discomfort not only for the viewer but also the wearer. I know it's a lot more complicated than that. I guess we all will just have to wait and see what happens. I would love to see crossdressers claim more freedoms for themselves in the near future.

I wish I could articulate my feelings about this better! Arg!

[Marianne]

You'll get a different answer from everyone you ask.

For some, the answer is the family pressure.

For my ex-wife, her main issue was that if I went out to a support group meeting I might run into someone she worked with. Since she's a schoolteacher she was worried that the end result would be that she lost her job and her pension. My pointing out that anyone who was AT the suport group meeting (and I would drive there in male mode, and use a private room to change for the evening, then change back to male mode did nothing to assuage her fear) was either also a crossdresser, or was married to one, did nothing to reassure her.

For some, it's physical fear. Fear of being attacked, killed or raped (or any combination thereof).

Several of the girls here can tell of personal experiences with being attacked just because of their appearance.

(This is not a fear of mine, I'm 6', 180 and a trained martial artist. My fear is the publicity that happens after I put several 'yahoos' into the morgue while acting in self-defence.)

For some (including me) it's the knowledge of what a bad incident will do to the psyche.

I don't consider myself particularly 'pretty' or even 'passable', but when I do go out I spend several hours getting ready so that I can at least make a 'brave' effort. Having some moron make a 'wise-crack' would be a bad experiecne for my own self-confidence, and would put me into a situation that I'm just not equipped to handle from a mental standpoint. My natural 'male' reaction of "What did you say asshole?" simply isn't lady like.

[Amanda Leigh]

I live in Cornfield County Indiana which means I live in a small town and EVERYONE would know....some things better kept secret

[susandrea]

For some (including me) it's the knowledge of what a bad incident will do to the psyche.

I don't consider myself particularly 'pretty' or even 'passable', but when I do go out I spend several hours getting ready so that I can at least make a 'brave' effort. Having some moron make a 'wise-crack' would be a bad experiecne for my own self-confidence, and would put me into a situation that I'm just not equipped to handle from a mental standpoint. My natural 'male' reaction of "What did you say asshole?" simply isn't lady like.

That's what I suspected but I wanted someone else to say it. There is more damage done because of the "loss of the illusion" rather than just the discomfort of rudness from a stranger. And of course there is a real danger of getting pounded by a bunch of neanderthals. But that goes for transexuals and gays, too, and they are still gaining more ground than crossdressers, so....hmmmm....

It breaks my heart to read the stories of spouses who are not supportive. I understand it, but it still so sad. I've read comparisons like "what if your wife started sporting a beard" kind of thing and it makes sense in a way, but I've also witnessed, over the years, women in particular who come around full circle once they know more of the facts about about crossdressing, myself included. Not that all it takes is education, but I bet there are loads of women out there that would be more open to it if they were simply exposed to it in a positive way. Hard to say.

[Daffodil]

Darlings, darlings,

Most of us would like to go out en-femme on the odd occassions, but by golly to have to walk around all day/night in high heels ----- eek!

But really, one big reason is that it is our secret, and that is part of the big thrill ----- having a very special and private life that belongs to us girlies only. Although most of us are happy to share our secret if we could meet another CD just like ourselves.

Being mature and single I'm, like many others, still looking for that 'special girlie.'

Kisses and a big hug to you all --- xx xx.

[joni-alice]

anybody who does not have any fear about something is probably dead. If you want to know more about fear, ask your cat.

[Marianne]

That's what I suspected but I wanted someone else to say it. There is more damage done because of the "loss of the illusion" rather than just the discomfort of rudness from a stranger.

It's not even that.

Guys can say "wow man, you look really ugly today" or "sheesh, did you buy those jeans at the thrift store?" and that can be taken in many ways. Some are just 'joshing', some result in an immediate "oh yeah asshole? These are your mommas jeans, I was porking her last night when one of those guys you call dad came home early!".

Teenage girls (and even grown wome) can be just as pithy and cutting to each other, but the 'natural' reaction is very different.

It's when you mix all that together as a cross-dresser that things become completely wierd.

If I were to react in 'male' mode, then I've destroyed my *own* illusion. If I react in 'femme' mode then I'm likely to get the crap beaten out of me.

Society just doesn't equip me for a 'win-win' response to such treatment.

Out of the many reactions I can possibly make, half of them are dangerous physically, half are dangerous to me mentally and the rest are dangerous to me in both.

If I react aggressively, I'm ****ed. If I burst into tears then the kind of asshole that would initiate such an exchange is NOT going to stop.

If I were a 'real' woman, then society is actually *supportive* of either reaction. If things turn 'physical' then folks are likely to kick the snot out of the aggressor, if a real woman bursts into tears then folks are likely to beat the snot out of the aggressor for being an asshole.

And cops, judge, and jury are going to give a completely *different* result to a real woman (in either reactive situation) than they are to a cross dresser.

The only 'win' response I have is to try and walk away.

[susandrea]

That makes a lot of sense Marianne, thank you.

[Pip]

Mine would be reputation. In my current job I supervise a team of technicians that can be difficult to deal with. I need to be able to kick butt and take names at times to keep my team headed down the right path. I would think the kicking butt part would be less effective if the knew about this and pictured my foot in 3" heels as I put it on their backside.

It's also about affecting how people percieve me in my every day life. I live my life as a guys guy except when I am in the comfort of my own home and can explore this other side of me. My neighbors see me as a guys guy. My friends and family see me as a guys guy. My wife loves me as a guys guy....with small exceptions ;). That's the me that I worked hard on growing up and am quite comfortable with it. I do enjoy taking a break from being a guys guy every now and then but I'm not ready to part with it. It is as much OR MORE of who I am than the woman I present in my home.

That being said, I DID go out this past weekend and got a makeover. I drove there and back dressed. Back was definately easier as the make up job was extremely better than I had done myself, and I had a wig finally. It felt great being outside and presenting as a woman, if even from the seat of my car. But had I run into anyone that I know I would have been devistated. It could have led to a career and a mental breakdown. Fortunately the northeast seems to be the most populated part of the country so that chances of that happening are slim, which made the risk acceptable.

Pip

[susandrea]

Mine would be reputation. In my current job I supervise a team of technicians that can be difficult to deal with. I need to be able to kick butt and take names at times to keep my team headed down the right path. I would think the kicking butt part would be less effective if the knew about this and pictured my foot in 3" heels as I put it on their backside.

That makes sense, but don't forget there are plenty of women bosses out there that kick a lot of serious backside!

But I catch your drift. Thanks for a different perspective. :thumbsup:

[Pip]

That makes sense, but don't forget there are plenty of women bosses out there that kick a lot of serious backside!

But I catch your drift. Thanks for a different perspective. :thumbsup:

A GG kicking butt in three inch heels is much much different than your male boss doing the same. No comparison at all. But yeah, I catch your drift too. :cool:

Pip

[MarinaTwelve200]

Hi everyone!

I have another question for anyone interested in answering. This topic is brought up in nearly every thread so my asking it may seem naive, but I do have a reason.

Question:

If you don't ever go out dressed en femme, exactly what is it that keeps you from doing so that is worse than denying yourself that right?

In other words, is it at all possible that you are your own worst enemy when it comes to going out any way you want?

That's all. Thanks in advance for any answers, and if you want you can always PM me.

Susan :)

P.S. I'm asking this in a thoughtful way, not to incite a riot.



Well, quite frankly,
I don't want anybody to think I am "GAY"---And then spread the rumor all over our small town.

Now I KNOW that how one dresses has NOTHING to do with one's sexual orentation, but I feel that MOST people are ignorant and do not know what "gay" is or is not (I'm hetro btw)

Not that I have anything against actual gay people,but I know they suffer public scorn in many communities---And I don't want to suffer the same scorn because of public ignorance---So I'll just stay inside behind closed doors, thankyou, and not have to worry about people spreading groundless rumors.

Hell, I seldom go out in MALE mode anyways, so not going out at all in female mode is no big deal to me. I have enough at home to keep me quite amused and occupied.

[FionaAlexis]

For those of you who do go out en femme, did the ridicule eventually die down-?


Never ever been ridiculed. Never ever felt threatened. I've been out dressed in Ireland as a teen, in London in my 20s and here in Oz. I've only ever had one mildly bad experience and that was in a supermarket queue some years back with a checkout girl. However, while I've been out dressed many times over the years, I tend not to go to clubs or pubs - and most of my experience is in normal city day time. Also strangely I stay clear of areas more likely to be frequented by gays and trannies.

I think it comes down to two things:

- how convincing you are? and even to use the legal phrase 'if there is a reasonable doubt' that you AREN'T a guy dressed as a woman - then I doubt very much you would be openly ridiculed - well not in this neck of the woods. You may be read - but you won't be ridiculed. You have to be realistic - it doesn't work easily for everyone.

- what you are going out there for? - if you are going out to present as 'normal' female and you dress the part then things will go swimmingly. If you want to show off your latest latex gear and thigh boots then sadly it won't work.

Fiona xx

[Imogen_Mann]

Hi everyone!

I have another question for anyone interested in answering. This topic is brought up in nearly every thread so my asking it may seem naive, but I do have a reason.

Question:

If you don't ever go out dressed en femme, exactly what is it that keeps you from doing so that is worse than denying yourself that right?

Easy but sad to think about.

If I were to be recognised I would without doubt forfit my employment, Loosing my job would kill my income, no income equals no where to live (been there once before) and nothing to eat, all contributing factors in me having access rights to my daughter.

Loosing my daughter would be worse than never dressing again. It would break me.

XX

Jayme

[michellej]

My beard

[Jamie M]

Personally i don't go out en femme as it's my wife's wish that i don't .

I have no worries about whether people 'read' me , or whatever but it does scare her to death . She really worries about what people will think of me .

I think my relaxed attitude to it came about because i started so young . When you're 17 there's very little you're afraid of . I didn't care then and i don't care now if anyone was to come up to me and give me grief , i'd just give grief right back at them .

However , entwinned with this is a sense of saftey that i think no-one should be without regardless of en femme of drab .

Anyway , here's waiting for the day that my DW can relax a little more and let me out again .

luv julia

[Kiera]

If you don't ever go out dressed en femme, exactly what is it that keeps you from doing so that is worse than denying yourself that right?

Fear is definitely the reason for me, I love my friends and family and have grown very comfortable with the male aspect of my life. The disappointment of my parents is a big issue as is the certain loss of many of my closest friends. Also I have my SO to think about, she is a very social person and I would not want to cause her undue pain or stress in her life. How selfish would it be for me to risk public humiliation for her even if I were willing to risk it for my self? The fact is that I have spent my entire life as a man building relationships, reaching goals, and creating a male role model worthy of my nieces and nefews love and admiration. To risk being "made" when dressed, for me at least, seems very self centered. Life is not all about me. There are others in my life whose feelings need to be considered before making such a potentially life altering step toward expressing my femininity.
I cannot say that the thought or desire to do so does not strongly reside within me, because it lurks in my everyday thoughts. I fantisize about going out enfemme and even plan to do so in the near future, but when I do, it will be far from home in an area with the least possibility of ever reaching the ears of those who would misunderstand me and forever change the life I have worked so hard to create.:chained:

Kiera