Something to Consider

[Jaclyn NM]

Being a student of history, I can report that previous generations of men (as recently as 200 years) regularly wore makeup, wigs, and silk stockings. So my point is that maybe we crossdressers are just throwbacks to previous generations, who enjoy wearing fine clothing and makeup. I'm not trying to find a reason or excuse for my crossdressing, just trying to explore the history of it. And what I find, is that today there is much more of a distinction between men and womens attire and use of makeup. Anyway I would just like to throw this out as a matter of discussion, because I don't think that the desire to wear soft, fine clothing is all that new nor abnormal. Anyways I would like to know what the rest of you girls think.

[Nikki A.]

It's not the same in that they still wore "men's" clothing.

[Vi]

There have been reports of crossdressers throughout history, Not as in the guys that wore the wigs and all that stuff, But guys who portrayed themselves as female, just like we do.

[Jaclyn NM]

While I know there is a great difference between dressing as women and wearing soft, silky clothing, what I'm saying is that, today it seems that we men are denied either. I guess what I mean is that all men have a feminine side and yet today we are supposed to suppress it, rather that to let it out. The distinction between men's and women's clothing today is much greater than in recent history. I love dressing in female clothing, and feeling soft and sensuous, and I don't think it is a new phenomenom, but rather, that we have been denied this side of ourselves, and this is how we crossdressers let it out. I know this is very philosphical, but that's me also. And please understand that I'm not trying to justify or explain my own crossdressing ( which I love, as being part of me ), but I just put this out for meaningful discussion. Mainly that the desire to wear wigs, makeup, and silk stockings is not foreign to the male species.

[Electra]

Jaclyn NM, you are largely right but 200 years ago or so men did wear makeup, wigs and silk stockings in public but not skirts or dresses even then. It is the delicacy of fem clothes that attracts me and I just can't understand why, for example, women's underwear can be got in sensuous nylons or polyester but men are confined to drab thick cotton. Why?

[Jaclyn NM]

Jaclyn NM, you are largely right but 200 years ago or so men did wear makeup, wigs and silk stockings in public but not skirts or dresses even then. It is the delicacy of fem clothes that attracts me and I just can't understand why, for example, women's underwear can be got in sensuous nylons or polyester but men are confined to drab thick cotton. Why?

Dear Electra,

I don't know why either. Why shouldn't we wear silk panties and nylon stockings, and high heel shoes. It's just not fair. Therefore, I will continue to "crossdress".

[StacyCD]

Everyone is different and for me if I wore satin pajamas that were for men it would not be the same as wearing satin pajamas that were for women! I enjoy wearing women's clothing in part for the simple fact that they are for women.

[tinalynn]

I wear them because I like the look and feel of skirts, stockings, and heels. Everything else just makes them look better, which makes me feel better. As for the OP, I could be a throw-back! I like the tried and true in sports, business, and pretty much everything. We repeat history, and it hurts me to watch people suppress the bad parts of our history because if we forget it we'll repeat it. Give me the olden days anytime...

[Andy66]

Sorry, Jaclyn (IF that is your real name) but that pig won't fly. Silky is one thing; specifically made for one sex or the other is a whole different thing.

[Jaclyn NM]

Sorry, Jaclyn (IF that is your real name) but that pig won't fly. Silky is one thing; specifically made for one sex or the other is a whole different thing.

First of all Anne, why do you feel the need to say something like "if that is your real name" ? I think that this forum is for us to communicate and try to understand each other, not to throw darts. I happen to like wearing the clothing that for some reason unknown to me has been designated "female". Why that is, I don't know, but that's the way it is. While we're on the subject, why are jeans, slacks, and socks okay for either sex, but stockings, high heels, and skirts only okay for women. Anyways, I appreciate your response, except for the"jab" about my female name.

[Michellette]

Wel I don't know, those Romantic outfits were considered masculine then (lol don't ask my how). So there is different psycho state in wearing silk then and walking out with beribboned stockings and bright velvet jacktts now? Nonethtless, it would go for me to dress like this but not if they perceived me as man like they used to y'know.

[DawnRodgers]

There is no question that I find women's clothing very desirable and love the look and feel of them I really have no desire to wear pantsuitrs or slack, just dresses, blouses and skirts. My legs must show, in nylons with finger and toe nails polished in shoes that, ideally, show my toes. Eberything must be as feminine as possible - makeup, jewelry, all of that.
I did and do think though that women's clothes are designed to be attractive to the male element. What man doesn't look when he hears the sound of a woman walking in heels? Isn't attracted by the delightful odor of perfume? Loves the look of a woman standing or sitting in a skirt with her smooth legs looking so delightful? Seeing her fingernails in a red or pink polish showing so attracrively as she talks and moves her hands about. It does eem as though I love to look like this and I do notice when men notice me too. The clothes are attractive and attracting. That's why I love them and love wearing them.
Dawn

[Charla McBee]

I also study history and like to think of myself as an old soul. However, I would really like to try on some old-fashioned women's clothing as much as I want to try on the modern stuff. There has always been a difference since civilization began.

I will agree with you that the lines are a lot more rigidly defined these days (ie: stockings/tights are for women only) but numerous marketing efforts are also trying to change that, some successful some not. The best historical example of a successful effort is probably GI Joe, the company that made Barbie knew it was missing 50% of all children in their market so they asked themselves "how do we get boys to play with dollls?" Now, no one thinks twice about an "action figure".

I recently read an article that pointed out how women at one one point in the last century or two wanted to be fatter. They quoted a testimonial from a magazine where one woman talked of how wonderful she felt after gaining 18 lbs! There's actually a vicious cycle of changing gender expectations that lead to widespread mental illness in both sexes.

[Frédérique]

Being a student of history, I can report that previous generations of men (as recently as 200 years) regularly wore makeup, wigs, and silk stockings. So my point is that maybe we crossdressers are just throwbacks to previous generations, who enjoy wearing fine clothing and makeup.

When I was a boy I saw a portrait of Philippe I, Duke of Orléans (brother of French King Louis XIV), also known as “Monsieur.” I was immediately struck by the effeminate look of the man – I had never seen anything like that, and I was fascinated that sometime in the not-so-distant past a male could look and dress that way, yet wield power and still be seen as utterly “manly.” I recall being excited and thinking “Wow – you can do that?” I looked a little further into this just now (in good old Wikipedia), and I found a portrait of Philippe and his brother as children – Philippe is dressed like a girl head-to-toe, while Louis looks more boyish. Oh, to live in the past when one could “pull it off,” so to speak…:heehee:


I happen to like wearing the clothing that for some reason unknown to me has been designated "female". Why that is, I don't know, but that's the way it is. While we're on the subject, why are jeans, slacks, and socks okay for either sex, but stockings, high heels, and skirts only okay for women.

OK or not, I’m wearing them! I saw an interesting sight tonight – among the trick-or-treaters that graced our front porch were three princesses (two pink, one Leia), and two girls who were inexplicably dressed as girls! I mean, when did femininity become a viable costume for girls? Did I miss a meeting? Am I in the right dimension?:eek:

[Karren H]

Appearently it didn't catch on......

[Kate Simmons]

Don't you think it's more than a coincidence that so many CD and TG folks have appeared at this point in time? There is definately much more to it and it ain't about clothes Hon.:)

[Lidia_tv]

Come to think of it, looking historically: Whatever genetic males have invented for themselves was soon enough picked up by genetic women. So, we're not picking up what was originally female, we're just taking back what was originally ours, LOL

[daphne g]

today you can buy pantyhose for men
would we wear them?

[Rachel Morley]

I found a portrait of Philippe and his brother as children – Philippe is dressed like a girl head-to-toe, while Louis looks more boyish. Oh, to live in the past when one could “pull it off,” so to speak…:heehee
Is this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Portrait_of_King_Louis_XIV_and_his_Brother,_D uc_D%27Orleans.jpg) the pic? I agree, it's quite amazing how things have changed.

For me, it's not just about wearing nice clothing (silk, satin and lace etc), and I agree that the desire to wear soft, fine clothing is not all that new nor abnormal, but in my case it's about all that ... but also about the clothes being girls' ones. I agree that today there is much more of a distinction between men and women's attire and I can't say why I feel this way, but if women's clothing styles became the exact same as men's which (might include wearing nice fabrics) I would still want to do things that draw me toward the feminine side. Wearing guy versions of feminine attire doesn't quite hit the mark for me. :2c:

[Andy66]

First of all Anne, why do you feel the need to say something like "if that is your real name" ? I think that this forum is for us to communicate and try to understand each other, not to throw darts. I happen to like wearing the clothing that for some reason unknown to me has been designated "female". Why that is, I don't know, but that's the way it is. While we're on the subject, why are jeans, slacks, and socks okay for either sex, but stockings, high heels, and skirts only okay for women. Anyways, I appreciate your response, except for the"jab" about my female name.
I was trying to make a point. I have nothing against cross dressers; in fact I like them a lot. But if you were simply dressing like a typical old-fashioned male, you wouldn't be using a female name.

In my opinion it's okay for women to wear pants, and equally okay for men to wear dresses. I just wish the rest of society saw it that way.

[suzanne]

I see events in history as swings of a pendulum, where the pendulums' movement too far one way forces it back in the opposite direction. Right now, a "man" is being defined by role models that are one dimensional caricatures: that is GIJoe, NFL, UFC and WWF. I like to think that people are beginning to see this as unrealistic and even unhealthy and are looking for something different, similar to the way that not all women are described by the category "supermodel" and are beginning to demand recognition. While CDing isn't a solution for everybody, I love how I am not "less of a man" but more of a human being by enjoying my femininity. We CDers are expressing ourselves in a way that suits us better than the traditional macho pigeonhole, and are currently enjoying the good fortune of a slowly increasing acceptance.

[Jaclyn NM]

I was trying to make a point. I have nothing against cross dressers; in fact I like them a lot. But if you were simply dressing like a typical old-fashioned male, you wouldn't be using a female name.

In my opinion it's okay for women to wear pants, and equally okay for men to wear dresses. I just wish the rest of society saw it that way.

Dear Anne,

Thanks for your explanation, And Yes, you are right that I am attracted to female clothing for more reasons than history. I was just trying to get a discussion going on the distinction today being greater between male and female clothing. Oh well, live and learn. I do love my female side, and a huge part of that is the beautiful clothing I get to wear. I wish you well Anne, and thank you for your support of us crossdressers. I'm sorry that I misinterpreted you original message. Take care.

[Andy66]

Jaclyn, on Halloween I saw dozens of cross dressers, both ftm and mtf. There was even a team of runners at a bar, and all the men and women runners wore matching red dresses. They looked cute -- I talked and flirted a bit with one of the male runners. It all seemed wonderfully natural and comfortable. Everyone on the street dressed as they wanted and people thought it was cool instead of weird. I would love to see that happen the other 364 days of the year.

Sorry if I offended you. :hugs:

[sherri52]

Back in 1970 while in the service, I was station in Arizona but sent to Maryland on tdy (temporary duty) I dressed when not working in satin shirts and 2" heels and a silk scarf. This was male clothing and very fashionable but it didn't last long.

[raleighbelle]

I love the feel and look and texture of womens clothing, but I really wear womens clothes because they are female. If women all wore dunce caps, I am sure I would want to wear those as well. I do wonder though, if men usually wore dresses, skirts, pantyhose, etc, and women wore the same old baggy jeans and at work all wore white shirts and ties, if I would be wanting to wear those then! I'm not so sure. I probably would, but it would not be nearly as fun as now!

[Laura_Stephens]

today you can buy pantyhose for men
would we wear them?

I buy hose from Comfilon. They fit way better than any of the hose marketed to women.

[busker]

Electra, the Celts have worn kilts for over a thousand years--that's the little plaited skirt worn without undies by the manly men. They keep their dirk (knife) in their sock. I believe the Greeks in the 20th century (military) wore uniforms which included a skirt of fairly short length. Men in the Middle East wear a long outer robe that certainly could pass for a "dress". Women in the 1930's wore undies that were more like boxer shorts and men wore undies that were more like panties called "jockey shorts". In the 70's men could buy over the counter boxer shorts which were fairly sheer and now men's "jockey" short come in a spandex-like material sold by Target. The Greeks and the Romans wore cute little short skirts and the women wore long "dresses". Men's wigs during the "wig period" were very flambouyant and women had hats to match in outrageousness. Sadly bathing by either sex was not de rigeur so no matter what clothing you wore, everything was tidal-waved in perfume. Men's shoes until recently had "heels"==vide Thomas Jefferson and G. Washington and women had spikey toed shoes. As to the "delicacy" of fem clothing, that largely applies to "Western" dress as the Aleuts still do not have lace trimmed parkas and the Peruvian women use "wool" from animals for their garments (or at least some).
Would you want to dress en femme if it meant dressing like a women from Vladivostok? or Outer Mongolia? What do CD's in other parts of the world wear--the local women's clothing?????????? or Parisian frills? Are there CDs in Outer Mongolia? What about Alaska? or the Middle East? Does a guy really want to wear a Burka? Do Chinese CD's want foot binding too?
just asking