The police came!!!!

[SheriM]

Yesterday, I went shopping for a few hours and had a very close call. I went into a Ross store where they usually have a bouncer type guy at the entrance watching who comes in. He wasn't there yesterday.
I went in and found a pair of purple hip hugger panties and then went to the clearance racks. Found a nice top, sort of a shirt jacket and took it to the dressing room, she let me in - no problem. When I came out, there was a lady with a security shirt on standing next to the attandant. I didn't think too much of it although I was sure that she was there because of me. I found a couple dresses and a pair of pants and took them to the fitting rooms. The attendant was very cordial and even said that she liked one of the dresses that I had and that it was very cute. She asked how they fit and I told here one was too big - one too small. I continued shopping and noticed two uniformed police lurking at the end of my isle. I moved and so did they. Thought it was time to make an exit so I took my panties to the checkout - the police followed. After I paid, one of the SA's said "thank you for coming" to the police - they followed me out the door. I was never approached. Other than being an obvious man dressed in women's clothes, I really didn't think that I was acting suspicous.
That was too close!!!!

[docrobbysherry]

Shari, I think you're VERY brave to have continued shopping. :thumbsup:

[DiannaRose]

I bet your heart didn't stop pounding till you got home! Interesting how someone at the store made the automatic assumption that you were up to no good.

The good news is that if another man comes into the store to try on clothes, hopefully that person will be a little less suspiscious and a little more accepting, so good on you for being at a place and time to help lift the stigma just a little, Sheri! :)

[abigailf]

That is interesting. My male side (or maybe it is my female side) would have confronted them and asked if I was causing any problems.

They were probably just there as a precaution. They don't know who you are. For all they knew you could be some pervert or something. I read somewhere, that if there is an attendant, to ask if you can use the dressing room.

I have yet to use the dressing rooms myself, so I am no one to give advice there. Just don’t let it scare you from doing it again.

[AmberLynn]

Im glad you made it out ok. I would of broke down into tear's at the thought of haveing police and secrity going to escourt me out for buying clothes. whas it female only dressing room's you were useing? do you think you broke the law in any way or may they thought you were going to rob the place? will you go back there to buy clothes again?

[Jenny Beth]

Sounds like a place I'd never shop at if they call the cops on someone who they deem suspicious because of how they dress. I mean what did they think you were in there for? You didn't have a gun over your shoulder did you? Sorry to be so negative but they'd never get my business again.

[geri-tg.]

Thats awful and very rude. I don't think I would ever shop there in my life time.

[Viv]

"Crazed man takes advantage of clothing sales at Ross-news at eleven"

One question...do a lot of stores have 'bouncers' at the front or was this store located in a nasty part of town?

[Karren H]

Personally I've never had an issue shopping in any mode but then again I don't frequent clothing stores what have bouncers either?? Wtf?? Lol. After I got their names and called my lawyer to check on harassment laws..... I'd go shop somewhere else if that were that friggin anal..... Somewhere they want and appreciate your business.. Never really like Ross's anyway..

[MAJESTYK]

That is so wrong in so many ways! Do they not like to make sales? Where were you shopping at, Afganistan, Iran? I dont get it. I can see their concern for thier shoppers safety and comend it but, you seem to have just been looking for someplace to spend money not find victims. I would assume by thier actions that they dont want money and would take mine somewhere else.

[Wen4cd]

Ross... check. Another for the personal boycott list. Care to drop the city or the branch location?

You might have taken your purchases up to the counter, laid them down, and said "I was going to buy these, but now I'm not. Instead I'm writing to corporate, may I have your branch manager's full name, along with yours, and the dressiing room attendant's, please? I want to make sure the newspaper spells them right."

[SheriM]

I'll try to answer the Q's.
I was wearing a light weight, off white sweater, bra and small forms to give me a little shape, low rise jeans and sandals with about a 2" heel and of course pantyhose. No wig or makeup. I'm sure that the outline of my bra showed through the sweater a little so it was no secret that I was a man wearing womens clothes.

No, the store is not is a bad part of town, in fact it's a new outdoor mall, quite a large mall, some construction still going on. I have gone in there before and always thought it strange that a big bouncer type guy would be at the door.

I probably will not go back, just too risky. In fact, even though you can get some good deals at Ross and the fitting room attandant was very nice, I may not go into any Ross stores again. Don't like the risk factor.

I didn't think that I was acting suspicous, I'm not new to shopping for women's clothes.

SheriM

[Lorileah]

They were probably just there as a precaution. They don't know who you are.
As is the case for let's say 90% of the people who walk in that door. Otherwise you would be what they call a regular. Businesses like that sort thrive on new customers


For all they knew you could be some pervert or something.

Welcome to the site Abigail.
We are all something. For all they knew Sheri was one of the corporate heads doing a drop in shopping inspection. Or maybe Sheri has 80 million dollars and was just out shopping. Or maybe Sheri was a customer. Any business that assumes that a person is "something" isn't going to stay in business long. We need to dispel the thought that men in dresses are "Perverts" and that should really start with us not using that word.


I read somewhere, that if there is an attendant, to ask if you can use the dressing room.
I believe that was done twice in this post.

Unless those panties were really something special and unique one of a kind, a simple dropping them off at the customer service counter with a quick, I understand that you really don't need my business here would have been my reaction.

Confronting the police would not be a wise move, even if they weren't there to hover over you. In that time frame there was probably a real crime being committed somewhere in that area but the police were busy ooogling a CD. :brolleyes:

[Nicole Erin]

The police officers were probably thinking "We got a call over this silly crap?"
I don't think the cops really cared either way.
It was Ross who called. Why would they have security at the store like that?

Ross has always been a crappy place to shop anyways.

[TxKimberly]

Personally I've never had an issue shopping in any mode but then again I don't frequent clothing stores what have bouncers either?? Wtf?? . . .

I'm with Karen on this. Even when clearly shopping the female section in boy mode, I've never had a problem. I also think you were remarkably brave in continuing to shop after noticing you were the center of attention, but I would have to question your choice of places to shop if it's so rough they have to keep a bouncer at the door. lol

[KayC]

Did you go into the female dressing room or the male dressing room?

Downtown Portland Ross has police officers at their door all of the time, they have a lot of shoplifting so the store pays for the police to be visible there just as a precaution.

[AmberLynn]

I have to agree with karen,if they have a "bouncer" at there door i dont think i would shop there. just the sound of "secrity showed up" you continued to shop then "cop's show up" i think they were trying to send a silent message "cd's not welcome ":2c:

[Vieja]

It is interesting to note that the police exercised good judgment and restraint. This is not always the case.

Vieja

[Shari]

In light of the obvious "guilty before being proved innocent" test you endured, you shouldn't have bought item one in the first place.

Return the items and get your money back, then spend it somewhere else where you're not considered a threat to national security.

Your thread really got my panties in a bunch.

[suchacutie]

So what was their issue? Were you an obvious male in the female dressing rooms, but they were happy to let you in, more than once.

So if I'm in male mode, and I go into Ross and attempt to buy obviously feminine items, do I get followed and observed by the constabulary? Does this make for a positive customer atmosphere???

Am I missing something?

sheesh

tina

[sterling12]

At this point you will probably never know, but I am betting that The Security Guard was not at The Front of The Store because they were having a problem with a Shoplifting Incident at The Back of The Store.

My guess is that it had nothing to do with you! I think if they suspected you were shoplifting, they would have confronted you. I've shopped Ross a lot, and I believe they are very cognizant and friendly toward The Transgendered Community. You could have had an "incident" at an individual store, but I am sure it's not Company Policy. Knowing Ross, I would be shocked that they were concerned about your apparel.

About the only thing you can now do is to go back there, and ask to speak to The Store Manager. Explain what happened, and your concerns. I'll bet you that you will probably get an apology, and perhaps an explanation about what was really going on. In these troubled times, I would imagine that any retailer is doing everything they can to keep and encourage customers. I'd give them a second chance to make amends.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[bobi jean]

corporate phone numbers

THERE ISN'T A MANAGER ANYWHERE THAT WANTS TO GIVE THAT NUMBER OUT OVER A COMPLAINT.

Talk to the store manager first in an attempt to explain the situation and how it made you feel. if you are not happy (totally) with that, ask for the number of human resourses in the corporate office....

[abigailf]

As is the case for let's say 90% of the people who walk in that door. Otherwise you would be what they call a regular. Businesses like that sort thrive on new customers.
Welcome to the site Abigail.
We are all something. For all they knew Sheri was one of the corporate heads doing a drop in shopping inspection. Or maybe Sheri has 80 million dollars and was just out shopping. Or maybe Sheri was a customer. Any business that assumes that a person is "something" isn't going to stay in business long. We need to dispel the thought that men in dresses are "Perverts" and that should really start with us not using that word.


You are right, that was the wrong word to use and by no means am I implying anyone here is one (well, I might be:).

I tend to try and put myself in other peoples shoes in order to understand the motives behind a situation. The fact that the store has a bouncer already shows distrust and probably caters to a less reputable clientele. The underpaid clerk was probably trying to be cautions (or maybe following protocol) because someone they found to be “different” came into the store. You probably know how most people react to something different. Hence the reaction.

Sheri, It is nothing to take personally, maybe call the store and speak to the manager, let them know how you felt being treated that way and you intend not to shop there anymore. Add the fact that many other CDers are going to boycott as well. Who knows, maybe they will give you a discount or something free to try and win back your business.

And yes, I personally would approach the police. I had worked with police for years and most are quite reasonable. They have to be, it’s part of their job. They will be forward with you and probably tell you if they were there to “observe” you or not.

[sempervirens]

It sounds like intimidation, and that's not appropriate at all.

I'd second that the police probably didn't like being called over nothing.

Yep, brave of you to keep shopping, but at that point they didn't deserve your business in my opinion.

[ShannonIL]

I would call and speak to the manager. Heck. Might get some coupons out of it. Either way the store needs to know you take issue with what they did.

[Stephenie S]

Call, or better yet, visit the store and explain your concerns.

The reality is that NOTHING happened. You don't really know why the cops were there. Was it for you? Who knows? In any case they acted apropriately and did nothing, as you, or someone else, did nothing wrong.

If you were obviously a man dressed in women's clothes, then of course it is possible that some silly twerp of an employee called them. I agree that if that is what happened then the cops were probably asking themselves why they were called.

Cops are called all the time for silly reasons. Remember the woman who called 911 because her coffee was too hot? There are dummies born every minute. I would let this go. It seems that no one at the store was overtly impolite to you. Talk to the store manager. Or write a letter to corporate (go to the web site for that info).

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Sally2005]

Doesn't sound like the correct situation at all. If the staff was cordial and allowed you in the dressing rooms their is no issue. If they asked you to leave and you did not, then the police can probably charge you with trespassing or something. You should have politely asked the store clerk why the police were there? That would have put her on the spot to realize what she did was wrong. If she said it was because of you, that would be the time to explain to her how that makes you feel. Since it is a new store, maybe the staff are new and have not been enlightened yet.

[Sandygal]

Should have told the sales person to call the manager right then. When the manager shows up, you point to the policemen and ask if they were there because of you. If they are, you would like the number to their corporate offices. The only way we can shop like normal human beings is to stand up for ourselves. We should start a list of ready made answers when we shop in the womans section. I'm sure some of you girls have some good ones.

[AllieSF]

Here in the San Francisco area I have been several Ross stores that had a security person (wears a black vest or shirt with that or a similar title on the front and back and not always the bouncer type, some were even women). Most of these stores are in higher end and lower crime areas. I think it is probably their company policy to help control shoplifting, price tag changing, etc. activities by some people, especially considering these hard economic times. In your specific case, I think, if you are up to it, a nice chat with the on duty store manager would be in order. Based on that conversation, you could clearly decide on what your next steps should be. They may have a good reason for their actions, like a recent incident involving a man in the lingerie section, and decided to error on the side of caution. Bad press of any kind for a specific store location will hurt that store as well as the others. Plus, any personal harm to one of their customers or employees would be even worse.

[victoriamwilliams1]

Sounds like a place I'd never shop at if they call the cops on someone who they deem suspicious because of how they dress. I mean what did they think you were in there for? You didn't have a gun over your shoulder did you? Sorry to be so negative but they'd never get my business again.

I agree and never give them my business or I would write the management concerning my experience. Obviously they liked your money! For me I would have asked if there was a problem.

The sad part is they do not know the status of a person and that is just plain stupid on behalf of the Loss/Asset Protection department.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

More than likely someone (an employee) made a assumption that because you were dressed as a female and they knew you were a male they felt you might be "suspicious" as in being in a disguise...either to shoplift or to perhaps make a robbery...thus the called the PD who basically had to respond to "check out the complaint"....

You have no idea what was said when the call was made to the PD...so they are responding based on the information that was given to their dispatcher/complaint desk...

The fact that they only observed and at no time did they approach you indicates to me that they were simple their to observe you and make their presence known....nothing more and nothing less...since your free to dress in any shape form or manner you are not committing a crime....nor did you do anything suspicious...thus they had no grounds to engage with you...i.e. approach you and ask you for your ID or anything like that....but if you went to them to "inquire about their presence" then you effectively open the door for them to ask for your identification, ask you why you are dressed this way and generally that will open the conversation more...while this is going on the other officer is running checks on your through every data base available to the LEOs....hopefully your past is squeaky clean!!!!

Chock it up as an experience that comes with the territory and nothing more or nothing less....then write it all down and when you write that book.."My Life As A Crossdresser" you can add that little incident to the books contents....


Best,

Stephanie

[Sweet Cindy]

I've never heard of a clothing store that required a bouncer. The clearance sales must get out of hand or something. As for the cops, they got there pretty darn fast. Must be a nice quiet town if they had nothing better to do than respond to a man in woman's clothing shopping for... duh... women's clothing.
Sorry you had to go through that but good for you for powering through.

[Carole Cross]

At this point you will probably never know, but I am betting that The Security Guard was not at The Front of The Store because they were having a problem with a Shoplifting Incident at The Back of The Store.

It is possible if there was a shoplifting incident that the guilty party was a CD and after you walked in they may have thought you were a possible accomplice. The police could have been called in respect to the shoplifting incident and were there to show some prescence, nothing to do with you at all. The security were probably also there to deter any more shoplifters.

As you were not questioned and allowed to use the changing rooms, this semms the more likely scenario. It may still be a good idea to go and speak to the store manager to clarify the situation.

[Stephanie Miller]

Personally I have found it rather hard to match purple with other colors. Did you get a look at their badges? Are you sure they weren't "fashion police". :heehee:

On the serious side: Another vote with Karen. No stores with bouncers or lack of tollerance for me.

[Ashley_in_Texas]

In the past, I would frequently shop for female clothes at Ross. (male mode) I recently started to shop there again, and every Ross I have gone to, has a "bouncer". After seeing them, I usualy decide to shop elsewhere. After reading your post, I will probably avoid the store alltogether now.

[trannie T]

When I go out dressed I become a little paranoid. Whenever I hear someone laughing I know that the laughter is directed at me. The presence of two officers may have been because of an entirely different incident.
You may have asked the sales associate about them or gone to the officers and spoken with them. You can still call the store and ask the manager i there was any problem.

[jenna_woods]

glad you made out ok I would have left as soon as I saaw the ploice eveen thought I was not doing anything wrong. you were brave

[sherri52]

That would have been my last time shopping in that store. We shouldn't be followed around as we shop, regardless of what they thought. Makes you wonder how many times they have done it without you knowing

[divamissz]

I'd have walked up to the service desk, dropped off whatever I had in my hands and left. Then I'd go home and write a letter to Ross' corporate communications department and let them know that you are going to tell everyone you know never to go into a Ross again. And I'd follow it up by letting everyone you know what happened to you and ask them to write their own letters to Ross saying they'll never shop there again, either.

[donnatracey]

"Crazed man takes advantage of clothing sales at Ross-news at eleven"

One question...do a lot of stores have 'bouncers' at the front or was this store located in a nasty part of town?

I shop at Ross' frequently and have tried on clothes in drab w/o a problem. Yes, they always have a security person between the register and the front door.....and def not in a bad part of town....

Can imagine how unnerving that must have :eek:been.....

[tamarav]

Ross Stores (Ross Dress for Less) has had Loss-Prevention officers in every store since they started in 1985. They just in the last few years went to unifomed officers, as a more hopeful deterrent. I left the company in 1989, so I can't vouch for their sanity anymore.

The CEO's name is Norm Ferber. He was the tennis partner of Mervyn Morris ( remember Mervyn's?) He is about as big a jerk as they come, his complaint basket had a trashcan under it.

These stores have a huge theft or shrinkage rate, as most stores do. They do their best to keep the theft down, but it is an impossible task.

Your experience is an unfortunate one, they typically do not care about CDs shopping there, heck I have been for 20 years. The on-duty manager probably has a bug up her ass and didn't like how you were dressed or was scared of you. They tend to flex their miniscule muscle when they can. I would go back to the store, find out who was on duty and talk with them. Act civily and expain your interest in crossdressing. Sounds like this person may have never encountered another CD before, or she/he was just an ass.

[Hope]

Interesting, did they station security guards along side all of the African American shoppers too, or do they reserve their bigotry for those who are less likely to make a scene?

I personally would not have rewarded any establishment that treated me that way with a sale.

[Melinda G]

Other than being an obvious man dressed in women's clothes, I really didn't think that I was acting suspicous.



No wig or makeup. I'm sure that the outline of my bra showed through the sweater a little so it was no secret that I was a man wearing womens clothes.

Yeah, I know this is a support group, but geez. A little common sense goes a long ways. Could I suggest next time you take a little time to put on a wig and makup, and at least try to pass. This kind of nonsense just gives us all a bad name! :doh:

[simplykaelyn]

Sorry you had to endure that and IMO it's complete B.S..

If it were me, I would persue my distaste for their actions to as high a level as I could.

Good to see you held your head up high, but Kaelyn's other half would rip em' a new one.

[Penelope Marie]

The Ross stores here have never had security people posted. Not yet any way. i do like Ross. You were indeed mistreated. i'd complain

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Sheri,

You said:


I was never approached. Other than being an obvious man dressed in women's clothes, I really didn't think that I was acting suspicous.

Were you shopping in "in-betweeny mode"? Even if you were, ok it's not an everyday occurrence to see a guy openly waring women's clothes but that doesn't mean anything other than you're not "following the pack". I wear some fairly obvious girls clothes in boy mode .... now you've got me thinking :thinking: :worried:

[Kari Lynn Franks]

that just makes my blood boil if it was me i would have gone straight to the store manager with the police and point blank asked them if there was a problem i tried to see in your profile and it doesnt say where you live . ive never had any probs at the ross stores here in austin texas

[Kari Lynn Franks]

Yeah, I know this is a support group, but geez. A little common sense goes a long ways. Could I suggest next time you take a little time to put on a wig and makup, and at least try to pass. This kind of nonsense just gives us all a bad name! :doh:

She did'nt need to pass for anyone. Prejudice and discrimination in any circumstance is the same. Maybe you need to take a long look in the mirror and decide if you really belong here. People like you are why we are still fighting for our rights to be ourselves. I would have confronted the store manager and the police and asked them why they were treating me like a potential thief or criminal! We all have the right to be ourselves, as a man in womens clothing or in regular clothes. My wife goes shopping with me all the time and we have never been treated this way, and we would not tolerate it. If you can't be supportive and not judgemental get off this site! We already have enough people like you in this world. Stay out of ours!

[Jamie001]

These types of posts are very disheartening and serve to illustrate the level prejudice amongst ourselves.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR A PERSON TO PASS UNLESS THAT IS THEIR GOAL!!!

There are many people here on different parts of the gender continuum. There are those the pass, do not pass, don't care about passing, and in my case, a bloke in a skirt!

Please keep this in mind. Not everyone has the same goals and everyone's personal goal is important.

:2c: Jamie



Yeah, I know this is a support group, but geez. A little common sense goes a long ways. Could I suggest next time you take a little time to put on a wig and makup, and at least try to pass. This kind of nonsense just gives us all a bad name! :doh:

[SheriM]

Wow, thank you all for your support and encouragement. I really do appreciate it.
OK, I was in the store for probably 45 minutes and when I saw the police, it didn't take long to exit. It was time to go anyway.

As to confronting the police officers or somehow trying to get an explanation of their presence - I didn't and don't want any conversation with any police, expecially while wearing womens clothes. I'm sure that they would assert their authority, possibly requiring an Id check, etc. It would be nice to get a pound of satisfaction, but that would be a battle that I doubt I could win. I probably should contact the mgr but I'm glad nothing came of it and don't want to bring up that possibility again so I'll go elsewhere on the next shopping trip.

As to the poster that said I was too bold and should have more sense than to wear a top where you can see the outline of a bra. Perhaps you are correct, however, I was dressed very similar to about 90% of the people in the store. Not provocative or obscene. It just happens that 90% of the shoppers are women. Oh and I will wear the top of choice for the day and if the bra straps show, so be it - it's what we do, emulate and dress like women
and few women hide the fact that they are wearing a bra.
SheriM

[stefanie]

sounds like discrimination and profiling to me causing undue embarrassment to you for unjust cause.

certainly worth a letter to Ross, maybe make it sound legaleez and you can get a $1000 free shopping spree!!......seriously :)

unexcusable!

[JulieC]

That is interesting. My male side (or maybe it is my female side) would have confronted them and asked if I was causing any problems/

I would have confronted them too. Maybe take a nice pair of panties up to them, and ask them if they thought it was my color. Or maybe be more blunt and say "Excuse me, is it illegal for a man to be shopping for women's clothes?" or call for the manager and say "Would you call the police if a woman was shopping in the men's section? Why are you being so blatantly sexist? Does your company policy including harassing shoppers who are doing nothing illegal?"

:Angry3:

[Ruby John]

Hey,how about giving Ross a break. I shop there all the time and get some great deals. It's the one in Key West and they have a guard who will get you a basket or what ever. Was there last year with a friend cd who tried on 7 dresses with my help. Both of us were dressed as males. He asked which dressing room we should use and the attendant said either one. I guess he asked because of the 7 dresses over his arm. He bought 3 dresses. With the strange people in Key West I am glad they have a guard. Ruby

[CherylFlint]

I'd never go back.

[Melinda G]

She did'nt need to pass for anyone. Prejudice and discrimination in any circumstance is the same. Maybe you need to take a long look in the mirror and decide if you really belong here. People like you are why we are still fighting for our rights to be ourselves. I would have confronted the store manager and the police and asked them why they were treating me like a potential thief or criminal! We all have the right to be ourselves, as a man in womens clothing or in regular clothes. My wife goes shopping with me all the time and we have never been treated this way, and we would not tolerate it. If you can't be supportive and not judgemental get off this site! We already have enough people like you in this world. Stay out of ours!

Yeah, I belong here. And I've been here for four years. And I've been dressing longer than you've been on this earth. Sorry if I don't fit into the "You Go Girl" mold. As I said, a little common sense goes a long way. And I've had zero problems over the years by exercizing a little common sense! At a time when we are making slow progress for crossdressing, we don't need another "Budweiser Boy", in male mode, wearing womens clothes, making us all look like wierdos. Some of you seem bound and determined to push the limits, and then act all hurt and offended when someone takes exception to your pushing the limits. I stand by what I said!
Some of you people seem to feel that anyone on this site has to be a rubber stamp, and make with the "You Go Girls" every time someone gets in a jam for using poor judgement!
Some of you posters on this site have pretty good judgement, and others are clearly asking for problems. Personally, I think anyone who goes shopping in obvious male mode, with no wig or makup, and wearing womens clothes, is deliberately looking for a confrontation.

Most people will accept you as whatever you present yourself as. If you are wearing a wig and makeup, even if you don't pass, most people will think, OK this person wants to be accepted as a female. When you go out in male mode, making no effort to pass, but wearing womens clothes, most people frankly don't know what they are dealing with. If you want to be treated as a woman, at least try and look like one.

Now for extra points, when you go out in obvious male mode, wearing female clothes, and making no attempt to pass, should someone unfamiliar with crossdressers call you "Mam", or "Sir"?

[Loni]

Must have been a very slow day for the local police.
Showing up at a clothing store within 1/2 hour,
for a call of "strange man wearing womens clothing"....and shopping?

But ALL stores have security, some can be seen very easley, some not so.
Next time out (in drab or dressed up) look around you will see lots of cameras all over the place.

.

[TorieGG]

I agree with the others who suggested calling the manager. This is a "teachable moment" for the store and their staff. Let them know, respectfully, that you are not a threat and hopefully this won't happen again to you or any other customers. As a manager myself I know they can't fix things if they don't know what's wrong. Glad you stuck it out though-you probably enlightened a few people along the way. :)

[Temptation]

Yeah, I belong here. And I've been here for four years. And I've been dressing longer than you've been on this earth. Sorry if I don't fit into the "You Go Girl" mold. As I said, a little common sense goes a long way. And I've had zero problems over the years by exercizing a little common sense! At a time when we are making slow progress for crossdressing, we don't need another "Budweiser Boy", in male mode, wearing womens clothes, making us all look like wierdos. Some of you seem bound and determined to push the limits, and then act all hurt and offended when someone takes exception to your pushing the limits. I stand by what I said!
Some of you people seem to feel that anyone on this site has to be a rubber stamp, and make with the "You Go Girls" every time someone gets in a jam for using poor judgement!
Some of you posters on this site have pretty good judgement, and others are clearly asking for problems. Personally, I think anyone who goes shopping in obvious male mode, with no wig or makup, and wearing womens clothes, is deliberately looking for a confrontation.

Most people will accept you as whatever you present yourself as. If you are wearing a wig and makeup, even if you don't pass, most people will think, OK this person wants to be accepted as a female. When you go out in male mode, making no effort to pass, but wearing womens clothes, most people frankly don't know what they are dealing with. If you want to be treated as a woman, at least try and look like one.

Now for extra points, when you go out in obvious male mode, wearing female clothes, and making no attempt to pass, should someone unfamiliar with crossdressers call you "Mam", or "Sir"?

Melinda G, damn girl, YOU ROCK!
you're my new hero!

[Katie Louise]

Absolutley disgusting. In Australia you would have recourse to the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission for under the Sex Discrimination Act. This sort of behaviour is NOT ON. I hope you have similar recourse where you are. Perhaps you could extract a settlement from Ross. Certainly wouldn't shop there again though.

[Jamie001]

There is no reason the call someone "mam" or "sir" when you are shopping. Just answer your questions and help you decide on a purchase that is right for you. You need to understand that there are folks on this site and in the real world that wear some female clothing and/or makeup but don't try to act female and pass for female. There are many women that wear men's clothing also and they don't try to pass for men. They just like wearing the clothing. All of these people have rights. There are no law regarding wearing clothing of the opposite gender. Please show some respect for members of this site that don't care about passing or go somewhere else.

:2c: Jamie


Yeah, I belong here. And I've been here for four years. And I've been dressing longer than you've been on this earth. Sorry if I don't fit into the "You Go Girl" mold. As I said, a little common sense goes a long way. And I've had zero problems over the years by exercizing a little common sense! At a time when we are making slow progress for crossdressing, we don't need another "Budweiser Boy", in male mode, wearing womens clothes, making us all look like wierdos. Some of you seem bound and determined to push the limits, and then act all hurt and offended when someone takes exception to your pushing the limits. I stand by what I said!
Some of you people seem to feel that anyone on this site has to be a rubber stamp, and make with the "You Go Girls" every time someone gets in a jam for using poor judgement!
Some of you posters on this site have pretty good judgement, and others are clearly asking for problems. Personally, I think anyone who goes shopping in obvious male mode, with no wig or makup, and wearing womens clothes, is deliberately looking for a confrontation.

Most people will accept you as whatever you present yourself as. If you are wearing a wig and makeup, even if you don't pass, most people will think, OK this person wants to be accepted as a female. When you go out in male mode, making no effort to pass, but wearing womens clothes, most people frankly don't know what they are dealing with. If you want to be treated as a woman, at least try and look like one.

Now for extra points, when you go out in obvious male mode, wearing female clothes, and making no attempt to pass, should someone unfamiliar with crossdressers call you "Mam", or "Sir"?

[Melinda G]

There are no law regarding wearing clothing of the opposite gender. Please show some respect for members of this site that don't care about passing or go somewhere else.

I understand all that. There are also people who go through life looking for a confrontation and pushing the limits everywhere they go.
Don't tell me to go somewhere else, just because you disagree with me. Please show some respect for other peoples opinions, even though you might not agree with them! I wasn't aware that this was some kind of love-in, where we all had to agree.

[SheriM]

Melinda,
I respect your opinion and in fact, don't totally dissagree with you. I am not looking for a confrontation but if a female sees that I am a man in womens clothes, that is OK with me. Please note that I am wearing jeans, and not a dress or skirt. You have said that I look ridiculous without a wig and makeup but you have not seen me with or without wig & makeup. In fact, I am a mature guy with a fairly good build for a guy. I think that I look more ridiculous if trying to pass. Judging from your photo, we are a little bit alike in that respect, even though our body types are different, we just don't pass as women.

OK, you see two people shopping, both obviously men.
1) One has on womens jeans, bra and small forms, a top that shows a little shape and bra outline, pantyhose and sandals.
2) The other has on the same top but opts for a skirt and wears a wig - still obviously a man.

I don't understand why you think the first is a wierdo and the second is not?

Most all of my interaction with SA's or other shoppers has always been positive and I don't feel that I present a threatening image.
I do feel that if I were to put on a wig and make a futile effort to pass, that I would be shunned and avoided as someone too weird to deal with.

Oh, when possible, I do wear makeup and if I could make a good effort at passing, I would.

SheriM

[Temptation]

I do feel that if I were to put on a wig and make a futile effort to pass, that I would be shunned and avoided as someone too weird to deal with.
I disagree big time. If you at least make an effort to pass, you'd be treated better. Unfortunately, the whole "guy in a skirt" thing seems to be cool on this forum, but on this forum only, not in real life.

[Melinda G]

I disagree big time. If you at least make an effort to pass, you'd be treated better. Unfortunately, the whole "guy in a skirt" thing seems to be cool on this forum, but on this forum only, not in real life.

With a few exceptions, these are a real confrontational bunch. They want to be buried en femm, and embarrass their kids and families. They want to sit around the house in a nightie, in front of their wives and kids. They want to go down to the VA wearing womens clothes. They want to wear panties to the doctor, and carefully watch for any reaction. They want to wear womens clothes to work, embarrass their employers, and still keep their jobs. They want come out to anyone and everyone. Then they come in here crying and whineing for support, because someone laughed at them, or snickered behind their back, or their wives filed for divorce, or they got fired. Then they are greeted by a loud chorus of "You go girl".
There's an old saying, "When you look for trouble, you can usually find it".
Some of you would have a lot fewer problems, if you lose the "in your face" attitude!
This is a perfect example!

I would have confronted them too. Maybe take a nice pair of panties up to them, and ask them if they thought it was my color.

[Jamie001]

It is important to understand that this forum is for EVERYONE that does not fit into society's two gender model. This means that there are men that like to wear skirts and pantyhose in male mode just as there are women that like to wear bluejeans, flannel shirts, and masculine boots in female mode. Not everyone wants to pass. There are many of us that are bi-gendered and therefore are both male and female and will continue to express characteristics of both genders. Many of us are tired you hearing your rants that we are looking for confrontation if we don't try to pass. This is an old and tired argument and a lot of people here are tired of it. It is important to show respect and support for those, that pass, those that want to pass, and also those that are both male and female and are satisfied with presenting as both genders simultaneously.


With a few exceptions, these are a real confrontational bunch. They want to be buried en femm, and embarrass their kids and families. They want to sit around the house in a nightie, in front of their wives and kids. They want to go down to the VA wearing womens clothes. They want to wear panties to the doctor, and carefully watch for any reaction. They want to wear womens clothes to work, embarrass their employers, and still keep their jobs. They want come out to anyone and everyone. Then they come in here crying and whineing for support, because someone laughed at them, or snickered behind their back, or their wives filed for divorce, or they got fired. Then they are greeted by a loud chorus of "You go girl".
There's an old saying, "When you look for trouble, you can usually find it".
Some of you would have a lot fewer problems, if you lose the "in your face" attitude!
This is a perfect example!

[Melinda G]

Maybe the moderators of this site will realize this transgression and ban you for a period of time so that you can think about what equality and respect really means.
Translation: I want opposing viewpoints silenced! You can come back when you agree with us.:eek:

Explain to me why it is so important to go to the VA en femm, or wear panties to the doctor, when you could just go in guy mode, conduct your business, go home and get back into your frillies. As I said, some of you are just looking for a confrontation, and carefully scrutinize everyone, for any kind of reaction. Hey, it's your life. Do what ever you want. You've got a perfect right to wear whatever you want. You also have the right to walk out in front of a bus. But it might not work out so well.

[Lorileah]

There are also people who go through life looking for a confrontation and pushing the limits everywhere they go.


and that is what sparks change. If you don't push the limits you will never achieve anything more than existence, taking up space and oxygen for your life. You will never know what you missed. As long as my last words aren't "Hey ya'll watch this" I will confront and push the limits. Otherwise what is the point?

[Melinda G]

I've enjoyed a life pretty much free of hassles, by using common sense. And I've achieved a helluva lot more than taking up space and oxygen. You do the confronting, and pushing the limits. It's your right. I'll watch.:D

[Lorileah]

someone had to witness the Wright brothers first flight. :) But who were they? That sage poet and deep thinker Garth Brooks said "Life is not tried, it is merely survived
If you're standing outside the fire" But if we didn't have people who were observers we wouldn't be able to sell tickets to NASCAR :)

[Temptation]

and that is what sparks change. If you don't push the limits you will never achieve anything more than existence, taking up space and oxygen for your life.
With all due respect, that's a complete pant-load. It hasn't worked yet and won't work.
It's always best to try and blend in with society and avoid confrontation. And some of you people wonder why there's a lack of acceptance in society for cd's? reality check time.

[Lorileah]

With all due respect, that's a complete pant-load. It hasn't worked yet and won't work.
It's always best to try and blend in with society and avoid confrontation. And some of you people wonder why there's a lack of acceptance in society for cd's? reality check time.

Not getting into passing vs not passing here. The fact is that as long as we think it's wrong everyone else will too. The point is that if you don't push the limits we would be eating raw meat and wearing dead animals. The world runs on vision and going beyond the known. If you don't try, you won't do. Thats all it comes down to. Passing vs not passing is as you say a load. As long we keep in the closet and moan and cry about NOT being accepted we won't be accepted. Come out in the light and make a difference...or hide and whine about how bad the world treats you. If you don't like the status quo, work to change it. There's your reality check. The majority of CD's here DON'T want to be female. But they would like the equal right to be who they are without fear of repercussion.

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?” Rabbi Hillel

[Jeanna]

Personally, I like to shop at places where there are men's change rooms. Yes I go in drab. I pick out some ladies clothes and tell the attendant that I'm going to try them on. I like to frequent, a couple of ladies stores. I first went in drab and told them I was cd. I ask if and when it would be appropriate to try them on. It makes them more comfortable. If you think we're nervous, hell they can be nervous too.
But shopping at any place where I'm uncomfortable, I'm out the door before it can close behind me!
Try Sears, they are usually pretty laid back
Jeanna

[Mandy Burgundy]

What do they think CD's/TG's are shoplifters??? They don't understand that were very reserved people. Ignorance on they're part. Glad you handled this well..

[Syndi]

I really hate when that happens and it has happened to me before. Althought I'd love to go on a verbal tirade on them I usually keep quiet so I do not end up drawing more attention. My mom basically knows and although she has been kind in not telling the rest of the family I do not need them finding out on the news( or on youtube LOL)

[joyce483]

i am going to take Syndi explanation of the whole story and keep going to walmart and sears.

[Jamie001]

I agree with Lorileah. We need to get out in society and interact with people proudly rather than cowering in the closet or putting on male underwear rather than panties to go to the doctor. If you normally wear panites, then there is no reason to put on male underwear to go to the doctor. We need to just be ourselves. Do you think that GGs that wear hiking boots, flannel shirts, and men's underwear put on different clothing to go to the doctor? There is absolutely no reason. We need to stop cowering in the closet and get out there and be proud of who and what we are. That is the only way that we will make progress. Otherwise 100 years from now, CDs will still be cowering in the closet. I hope everyone can understand the importance of this. We need to move past gender binaries and society needs to move with us. We need to do you part to make this happen.

:2c: Jamie



Not getting into passing vs not passing here. The fact is that as long as we think it's wrong everyone else will too. The point is that if you don't push the limits we would be eating raw meat and wearing dead animals. The world runs on vision and going beyond the known. If you don't try, you won't do. Thats all it comes down to. Passing vs not passing is as you say a load. As long we keep in the closet and moan and cry about NOT being accepted we won't be accepted. Come out in the light and make a difference...or hide and whine about how bad the world treats you. If you don't like the status quo, work to change it. There's your reality check. The majority of CD's here DON'T want to be female. But they would like the equal right to be who they are without fear of repercussion.

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?” Rabbi Hillel

[Jenny Brown]

With a few exceptions, these are a real confrontational bunch. They want to be buried en femm, and embarrass their kids and families. They want to sit around the house in a nightie, in front of their wives and kids. They want to go down to the VA wearing womens clothes. They want to wear panties to the doctor, and carefully watch for any reaction. They want to wear womens clothes to work, embarrass their employers, and still keep their jobs. They want come out to anyone and everyone. Then they come in here crying and whining for support, because someone laughed at them, or snickered behind their back, or their wives filed for divorce, or they got fired. Then they are greeted by a loud chorus of "You go girl".There's an old saying, "When you look for trouble, you can usually find it".Some of you would have a lot fewer problems, if you lose the "in your face" attitude!This is a perfect example!
Melinda, what you posted is 110% true but I hope you realize that you'll be ostracized. The "you go Girl!" club is much more popular around here. Using common sense? Not so popular.

[Lorileah]

Good to see you are back Jenny :)

[Jenny Brown]

Good to see you are back Jenny :)
yeah, Right...
I guess we'll see how long it lasts, huh?:heehee:

[carolinoakland]

Well, not knowing what state you're in, here in the sf bay area we have gender presentation laws. That being said, I think they , oh hell you'll never know. But you did the right thing, they wanted to see if they could intimidate you, they probably called the cops with the excuse that they thougth you where a shop lifter. I've always known that it's how you hold yourself and you're demeanor that will carry the day. You showed nothing but ace's sweety, never back down, never give up! good girl! Carol

[Ineta]

You should have asked them: Is it OK? Am I in danger?

[Sam-antha]

It really is a symptom of the society in which we live.
"Bouncers" were, once upon a time, "Do
Doorkeepers". They held the door open for you. They even greeted you.
Now we have people watching people. People watching people on cameras. Just in case. In case of what ?

[FluffyPersian]

Yeah, I know this is a support group, but geez. A little common sense goes a long ways. Could I suggest next time you take a little time to put on a wig and makup, and at least try to pass. This kind of nonsense just gives us all a bad name! :doh:

You have a right to your view. But note that many of the crossdressers here who don't identify as women think that it's those who insist on on trying to pass that give crossdressers a bad name.

[Jenny Brown]

You have a right to your view. But note that many of the crossdressers here who don't identify as women think that it's those who insist on on trying to pass that give crossdressers a bad name.
Really? Maybe whoever's in charge needs to update all the "labels" because I'm not so sure those who don't try to pass as female should even be called "crossdressers". Seems to me you're referring to those who want to dress strictly for shock value. Fetishists maybe? As far as I knew, crossdresser means someone who adopts the complete appearance of the opposite sex.

[Shelly Preston]

We have all had a chance to have our say and are now getting away from the point

This thread is now closed